@@joshstephens12there are two types of protestant Pentecostals, oneness Pentecostals who believe in medalist heretical nonsense and the other are the regular Pentecostals
I was a part of a Pentecostal Church, that began as an Assemblies of God church and grew to being one of the largest in the State I live in. It had multiple campuses, and several thousands of attendees. The senior pastor spoke of his “apostolic gift/calling” constantly. Eventually, he was made a “bishop” by the laying on of hands - a group of his friends who were spiritual ubermensch gathered and the eldest of them all, also a “bishop”, laid on hands and made him a “bishop”. At the time I had a very limited understanding of the early Church, but I knew that he didn’t have the right or authority of a true Bishop. Eventually, his earthly kingdom collapsed and he was exposed for the fraud that he is. Unfortunately, many still call him “bishop” and reverence him as such. It’s disgusting actually and heart breaking. I met my wife at that church, and God drew us away into a spiritual wilderness for nearly a decade. God brought me to Holy Orthodoxy and I was baptized into the Church this past Lazarus Saturday. I certainly appreciate how this “Arch Bishop” handled this interview. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on our souls.
Glory to God and welcome to Holy Orthodoxy! May our Lord and God and Savior Jesus Christ, through the prayers and intercessions of His holy friend Saint Lazarus, bless you, guide you, and bring you into ever closer union with Him!
Imagine how powerful Bishop Thomas Henry could be for Holy Orthodoxy. A few years ago, a local Pentecostal pastor shuddered his church doors and led his congregation into my parish. Pray that Bishop Henry finds the same path.
I am thankful for the journey I am on my friend. I am Convergence and love it.... But I do not mind introducing any pentecostal to Orthodoxy if they feel that is the path they are on.
@@tom27jrMy name is Donnie, we were connected on Tiktok a couple years ago, I was raised in oneness Pentecostalism and had left that some time back...I have been attending an antiochian orthodox church the last year and a half and am now an Orthodox Christian! I always enjoyed listening to you and am pleasantly pleased to see you discussing orthodoxy with Father Jonathon. Bless you.
@@tom27jr My priest in Cumming, GA, Fr. Barnabas Powell, is a former Pentecostal pastor. His story might be intriguing to you, it is available on youtube. You're also welcome anytime at our parish of Sts. Raphael, Nicholas, and Irene Greek Orthodox Church. God bless!
@@ntlearning I have no issue with Peter being first amongst apostles. If I saw Peter presiding over the council, or some form of submission to him by the apostles, then I might believe it. But then the question of whether or not Antioch would also have claim to primacy, since Peter established the church there. As far as the keys, the rest of the apostles were given them. The authority, like remitting sin was given to all of them when Jesus breathed on them and said “receive the Holy Spirit”. Between the Isidorian decretals declaring papal supremacy that are now known to be forgeries, to Fiducia supplicans showing the popes indirect way of affirming homosexual relationships, it seems to me that Rome ought to come back into communion with us. The church always operated in a conciliar fashion, and for rome, it would assist in preventing unclear doctrine like F.A. (Though I know there is schism in orthodox as well). That said, I still love some of the traditions out of Rome.
@@jonmack2437 Firstly, regarding Peter's primacy, Catholic teaching holds that Jesus explicitly conferred a unique role to Peter in Matthew 16:18-19, where He says, "You are Peter, and on this rock, I will build my Church... I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven." The "keys" signify authority, and while the power to bind and loose was later extended to all the apostles (Matthew 18:18), the specific mention of the "keys" to Peter is seen as establishing a special role for him. This is further reinforced in John 21:15-17, where Jesus entrusts Peter specifically with the care of His flock, saying, "Feed my lambs... Tend my sheep." Historically, the early Church did operate in a conciliar manner, but it did so with a recognition of Peter’s successors in Rome as holding a unique place of honor and authority. For instance, early Church fathers like St. Irenaeus and St. Cyprian acknowledged the special role of the Bishop of Rome. The notion of papal primacy was not an invention of the Middle Ages but was rooted in the early Church's recognition of the Bishop of Rome as the successor to Peter, holding a position of primacy among the bishops. Regarding the Isidorian Decretals, while they were indeed later recognized as forgeries, they were not the foundation of the doctrine of papal primacy. The concept of the Pope's authority has a much deeper and earlier origin, grounded in the Scriptures and the writings of the Church Fathers. The decretals might have been used to reinforce papal authority during the Middle Ages, but they are not the basis of the doctrine itself. As for the concerns about unclear doctrines or issues within the Church, it's important to recognize that the Catholic Church believes in the development of doctrine, guided by the Holy Spirit. The Church has always maintained that the truth of the faith is preserved through the Magisterium, which includes the Pope as the principal shepherd and teacher. This ensures continuity and unity in the Church’s teaching across centuries, even as the Church addresses new challenges and questions. Moreover, it's worth recognizing the contributions that Pentecostalism, and the broader Charismatic movement, have made to the Church, particularly in reviving the charismata-the gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as speaking in tongues, prophecy, and healing. These gifts were present in the early Church and have been affirmed by the Chair of Peter and several Popes as authentic movements of the Holy Spirit. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI both acknowledged the positive influence of the Charismatic Renewal within the Catholic Church, recognizing that these spiritual gifts have brought a renewed sense of spiritual fervor and have deepened the faith of many Catholics. This acknowledgment demonstrates that the Catholic Church, under the leadership of the Pope, remains open to the workings of the Holy Spirit across different Christian traditions. While maintaining the primacy of Peter’s successor as the visible head of the Church, the Catholic Church also values the spiritual insights and gifts that other Christian communities bring, affirming the universal nature of the Church and its mission to be a vessel of the Holy Spirit’s work in the world. The Catholic Church sees the papal office not as a departure from the early Church’s practices but as a continuation and fulfillment of the authority given by Christ to Peter. The call for unity remains strong, and the Catholic Church views the Pope as a visible sign of that unity, serving as a guardian of the faith and a shepherd to the universal Church. At the same time, the Church acknowledges the vibrant contributions of movements like Pentecostalism, embracing the charismata as gifts from the Holy Spirit that enrich the whole Body of Christ.
i am Catholic. In my lifetime, i have known many Catholic priests, and a lot of Protestant Ministers. I have never known a priest who wants to wear Protestant stuff during Mass, but i know many Protestant Ministers who like to wear Catholic Vestments.
What a wonderful question and answer session between Archbishop Thomas Henry Jr and Father Jonathan Ivanhoff. I was taking notes all the way through but there is so much good information imparted in this video that it’s impossible to share it all in snippets, from speaking about Christ believers outside of the Orthodox Church and how Orthodoxy views them, to what is salvation, the Energies of God like Grace, and what that is, to the Eucharist, to Apostolic Succession and what that is, and how that works, to the importance of having Bishops and Priests, and to more. I would encourage everyone to watch this video, and maybe watch it a couple times at least. It is a fantastic witness given by Fr Jonathan to the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Orthodox Church, the Church founded by Christ and His Apostles, and to what distinguishes it from everyone else that came after it. Thank you Archbishop Thomas for your wonderful interview of Fr Jonathan, and forgive me, but may I say, I really enjoyed your questions and can see how close you are to becoming Orthodox yourself one day. May God bless you and guide you in all that you do. And I would say to all, come and visit an Orthodox Parish near you somewhere. Come & see and experience in person what is going on, rather than just listening to just words by anyone, which is important and has its place too. But experiencing it is, if I may say, otherworldly, and it can explain sometimes what can’t be put into words. Thank you Fr Jonathan for your time and always being willing to answer tough questions with love and respect. If I was forced to give at least one thing that grabbed my attention in this video, and as I said there was a lot, it would be what you said earlier on in the interview, sharing your own personal belief on the topic of people outside Orthodoxy. You stated the following and I loved it so much, and found it helpful to think of it in this way. Paraphrasing or adding slightly, here is the quote: “There are many people outside of the Orthodox Church who are what we would call ‘Catechumens’. They are being prepared, or have been prepared, for a walk with the Lord Jesus Christ, and if they want to come to the fullness of it and the completeness of it, the faith, that is Orthodoxy, the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Orthodox Church, we are ready. I wouldn’t say that people outside of the Orthodox Church are not necessarily Christians.”
I’m grateful to God to have learned about Orthodoxy, albeit late in life. I pray more Americans will learn about Orthodoxy with an open heart, as this Pentecostal archbishop is courageously doing in a public way. All glory to God. PS What a delight for the video to be started by the young girl-Luther’s daughter?!
Sooo perfect. I’m an inquiring Protestant and his response made me so much more comfortable than before. I don’t believe anyone denomination/sect of Christianity is 100% perfect. As long as the basics and most important aspects of Christianity are recognized (the Trinity, Jesus being God/son of God and not “just another prophet,” no woke lgbxyz stuff, etc) then the other, lesser discrepancies & disagreements aren’t a big deal and I can’t bring myself to think that a very devout Protestant is destined for Hell because he doesn’t believe Mary stayed a Virgin her entire life & he enjoyed electric guitar & tambourines in his church music. Salvation does require actual action (works) beyond simply confessing “I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins” like a lot of Protestants preach but these actions/good fruit can come from outside of the Orthodox Church & I’m glad to see that at least some Orthodox people understand this. The person themself might be missing the richness and fullness that comes with being Orthodox but actual salvation, I think one can achieve that in any truly Christ centered denomination as long as they’re ACTIVELY following Christ with all their heart. Not just doing the casual Protestant thing where they confess Jesus as their Lord & Savior & go to church a few Sundays out the year and that’s the extent of their spiritual life. God knows the heart and the effort and the intent.
@@CreoleLadyMarmalade I’m glad it was helpful for you! A lot of the experiences Protestants have with “internet orthodox” are very unpleasant. The best experience of the orthodox faith will always be through the experience of the Divine Liturgy in the Church.
@@MicahMarshall4Truthsame can be said about Protestants even when they act “nice” they’re still blaspheming words spoken by Christ, that’s just as offensive as any “mean words”
17:30 ... the only reason Orthodox churches in the US and UK have pews is because they inherited Protestant churches that had pews. My parish has no pews, and only seats around the side for those who need them. It makes a real difference to the ethos and feel of the Liturgy. Getting rid of the pews, if possible, makes an enormous difference to worship.
@@iliasmastoris529 Yes, Greek Orthodox churches in the US do have pews. It's very particular to the US and the UK. In the UK, it's because Greek communities bought Protestant churches which had pews, and they didn't remove them. In the USA, they also inherited Protestant churches with pews, but churches they build in the early 1900s didn't have pews. It was only in the middle of the 20th century that many of those churches installed pews. Basically, it's a Protestant influence.
@@OrthoBrit One of my Church History Professors said that pews were a German invention. Germans like order. Pews cause people to be in orderly rows. Lack of pews results in disorder. Anecdotal, maybe with a grain of truth, which, to me, made it humorous. I think he meant it as humor. But maybe pews did originate in Germany. I really dont know. The principal Catholic Churches in Rome do not have pews. Orthodox Churches do not have pews.
@@erikriza7165well Protestantism or atleast modern day Protestantism was founded in Germany so even if it was a joke it’s probably true in that Protestants started that practice
I am glad the Orthodox church believe in the works of the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately many do come into Orthodoxy with a Calvinistic/Reformed background and begin to publicly bash the gifts and ministries of the Spirit. Colossians 1:26-29 was Paul's main message and it is living and fresh.
It would seem that Thomas is recognizing the truth in Eastern Orthodoxy, and that his role as a "bishop" is invalid, and that he wants the Protestant church he looks over to become an Orthodox parish. Maybe one day he will make a good priest or maybe even a bishop. Even if he becomes just a laymen it would be a blessing. I commend him and his search for truth along with all of those who find Orthodoxy and are in s leadership position within schismatic churches, because if you think about it, it probably takes a lot of humility to step down from a leadership position for the sake of truth and for Christ instead of being in a delusion because you want to be a leader. May God bless him and his search for the truth.
@@youngkob3408 you response is why I took issue initially with the introduction. You missed entirely the point of the video. Your response would turn a searching soul away. I'm definitely a bishop according to the Augustine view. I'm convergence and embrace the ancient faith. I lean more Anglo-Catholic .... Grace and Peace
@@tom27jr Sorry if I offended you in any way brother, that was justmy impression, maybe I was wrong. I also have no idea what you practice, Ive just seen this video. But on the note of being a bishop, even if you have a completely Orthodox faith, if you weren't ordained by other bishops in the Church then you wouldn't be recognized as bishop within the Eastern Orthodox church. I dont mean to be polemical or anything sorry if I come off ass harsh, I appreciate your respect for tradition and I believe if you keep yearning for the Truth, by Gods grace many blessings will come out of it. Maybe you will become an Orthodox bishop in the future for all I know. I hope to see your future discussions and have a great day brother.
Nice conversation. Mr. Thomas Henry was very gracious through being told that he is essentially wrong in some respects, and Fr. Jonathan was kind and non-offensive in his stating of the Orthodox position and faith. I, as a catechumen, learned some, and gained a respect for both men. ☦❤🇩🇰
Gotta say again Father, excellent video very professional and I’m impressed how amicable he was. Selfishly praying he can be swayed to fullness of Christ found in Holy Orthodoxy.
Former Oneness Pentecostal now Orthodox. Modalism/charismania are growing and OP/Pentecostals make Apostolic claims. Orthodoxy needs to combat this better and challenge popular OP theologians (instead of the same old Roman Catholic/Islam debates). I attempted to set up a debate between UPCI theologian/Superintendient David Bernard on Transfigured Life only to get blocked by Bernard with no response (I think Luther reached out to him as well). As a former OP I knew nothing about the Orthodox Church until I left that sect and studied Church history. Orthodox Christians need to reach these people better.
@@St.MosestheBlack oh yes, was this the one that publicly called out the Orthodox but yet walked back his debate challenge or am I thinking of someone else? -Luther
@@TheTransfiguredLife I believe you’re thinking of someone else maybe that was a church of Christ guy. I don’t know of any Pentecostals willing to engage with Orthodox. I’m not sure if Mr. Bernard ended up ever getting back to you.
Yeah, I left oneness Pentecostalism and by God's grace have found Holy Orthodoxy. I'm not yet a catechumen but am desperately moving in that direction, myself being fully persuaded of Orthodoxy. I was a oneness Pentecostal preacher since I was 18. I haven't even updated my RUclips channel but hope to soon. What a shock to my audience when I tell them haha. I studied Orthodoxy for the past three years and one year ago I stepped down from preaching because I could no longer stomach protestantism and knew I was outside of the Church. Oneness Pentecostals call themselves "Apostolic" but in fact they are so far removed from being Apostolic that it hurts. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner! Pray for me and my family to be received into the Church.
I think the Blessed Augustine first said “we know where the Church is, but not where the Church is not” following the Lord’s saying to the Apostles “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.” (John 10:16)
Grace and Peace, There was a slight misunderstanding but all is well. I look forward to further conversations with Father as we discuss in a future setting...Orthodox beliefs and practices, The Holy Theotokos, and much more.
Thank you for this conversation. Please pray for my understanding. As a protestant inquirer, the differing views within the orthodox world on "outside the church there is no salvation" make understanding it difficult. Fr Ivanoff gives a 'generous' interpretation; other priests with online presence seem much more strict.
God knows the heart. It does feel offensive to know there is THE CHURCH and a protestant divorced from that church by centuries is missing the sacraments/mysteries like the Eucharist for example. That doesn't mean you or I do not love Christ, and that Christ isn't drawing us to Himself. Which is the Church. When Paul asked Jesus who are you? Jesus self identified as the Church. "I am Jesus who you are persecuting." 2000 years of the church is hard to ignore....
i've been around people seeking miracles and tongues and I am fed up with them. i see a bunch of self seeking people with no concern for living for God. And many protestant churches where pastors expect to be worshipped. I appreciate being allowed to partake of the bread just can't wait to be taken into the Church. As an older person with rheumatic arthritis i am thankful for the few seats in our Orthodox Church of America.
A very good book I think will resonate with many in or from a Pentecostal/charismatic background is “Thirsting for God in a Land of Shallow Wells” by Matthew Gallatin.
I was pentecostal doing lot of evangelism and missionary work. Now i am EO. Only problem is that orthodox church does not do evangelism nor missionary work. I know some monks and priests can do that but we ordinary orthoodox christian cannot do it. So after i became orthodox i started to loose my zeal to God becouse i could not do anymore my calling. Even priest told my to do nothing. So i have started to becoume more secular that i use to be.
You can still reach out to others. It may not be preaching on the street corner with poster board signs...🪧 but you can give alms, feed the poor, help someone, when you give someone some water you are giving it to Christ. Be a part of a prison ministry in Orthodoxy. They are huge on that. Orthodox who are able to get into prisons say they don't look at it as visiting some criminal. But they are going to visit Christ, when I was in prison you visited me...there are many places who can give...don't focus on getting the boxes checked and getting people to repeat a prayer to be saved. Thats not salvation, never was. Be encouraged and just influence people you can touch and find someone to help....Christ sees that and in judgement you will be placed on his right...
I don't know who told you that you cannot do evangelism or that the Orthodox church does not do evangelism but whoever told you that is wrong wrong wrong. We don't do evangelism in the same way that protestants do, but we most certainly do it. Please reconsider and please talk to other Orthodox people not just one or two especially not just one or two online.
@@gregcoogan8270 all the orthodox people I know they dont do evangelism and they even despise those who do. Even my priest told me we dont do evangelism actively. Evangelism is not just "living christian life". Most peoplw are good and behave well even bettere that many orthodox do. We need words. Evangelism is proclaiming. Not just hiding.
@@gregcoogan8270 in my country we have only minority orthodox. Even that it is our native orthodox church but still minority and even those minority are not very active. Most people dont care about it at all. So its quite hard to expand.
Fr. Jonathan Ivanoff. My Bishop/clergy have said it this way about salvation outside Orthodoxy. To answer as best as my clergy have stated. God may have means to join those outside of his church to the church before the final judgement. HOWEVER we must advocate for the NORMATIVE means God uses. So it is better to say salvation is found in the Orthodox church and extra normative means that God uses is for him NOT US. For us it is to say what God has revealed and that it is found in Orthodoxy.
Question 🙋🏻 - As an ex Pentecostal pastor /ex-bishop myself who became orthodox …. I still struggle with things. So How did you guys who are orthodox and ex Pentecostal reconcile/deal with the speaking or praying in tongues?? Do you still do it? If not, Do you miss it? If you don’t, How do you just stop praying in tongues and turn it off? And is that okay or healthy? Or should we not do it? If so, why or why not? I’m trying to find out what the Official Orthodox answer is and what they teach on it. I could never get a straight answer.
@@Sonwalkers247 that’s exactly the problem brother. I know what scripture says inside and out. I’m a retired bishop and pastor. I believe in it. But I became orthodox and there seems to be no answer or stance from them on what THEY believe about it. I have degrees in it to doctorate level and taught the gospel and Pentecostalism worldwide for decades. I didn’t ask what the Bible says about it. I could write books on it. I asked what do orthodox teach and believe. If you aren’t Orthodox and don’t know and aren’t ex Pentecostal please don’t respond. Frankly, I miss ministry and Pentecostalism or at least parts of it. It seems everyone avoids the topic and they don’t know much about it sadly. I’ve performed healings and miracles worldwide for decades and spoke and prayed in tongues for hours a day. I find it both fascinating and scary you would tell me to go read 1 Cor as if I’ve never read the Bible. Your comment unless you’re joking is very insulting, disrespectful and disturbing. You wouldn’t tell your bishop or Metropolitan maybe he should go read the Bible about a topic would you?
@@tom27jr why is that? Seems everyone here is being sarcastic or judgmental. Re read what I said. I have to admit online ortho bros are the worst. Geez 🤦🏽♂️ I’ve also noticed many who convert to Orthodox have been leaving it too. I’ve asked these questions for years and can’t get any solid answers sadly. It seems those in orthodoxy are not well versed in the Holy Spirit and even priests can’t give a good answer. Even the ex Pentecostals don’t really answer the question. It’s very simple but I’m concerned on their understandings of the Holy Spirit and gifts. We all can have this power and gifts by the way. I’ve seen, taught and experienced this all my life.
@@zealousideal You will more or less find a different answer per bishop or priest. I have found the most negative on the subject are orthodox people who were prior converts from Calvinism. Unfortunately some priest do not teach them the 'Gifts' are for today and the Spirit is still moving in the earth through the church, this leads into rigorism and a pharisaical level of judgment. I know Orthodox priest who can use the teachings of the early church fathers to prove the gifts of the Spirit. Even St Symeon mentions speaking in tongues twice in his poetry but doesn't make it front, line and center of his theology. A known orthodox priest told me 'Many priest are closet tongue talkers but afraid of their bishops'. Case in point not everyone is unified on the subject and that is OK ....bigger theological issues are preserved and the life of God is manifest in the liturgy depending on what man dares to see. When it comes to ministry some of the biggest world shakers were among the laity. The priesthood helps serve and govern the church. The job of laity is to get the gospel out, but rather than how pentecostals do it (bragging) you do it until the Lord with only your priest and bishop knowing. Your reward comes from heaven. Go to the highways and byways and compel the lost to come in so that the house of God might be full. If you have gifts confess your sins, walk in holiness and let the Spirit work through you and brag to no one.
Thomas Cranmer, John Stokesley, Bishop of London, Thomas Goodrich, Bishop of Ely and Edward Lee, Archbishop of York, All went over to Anglicanism in support of Henry VIII. Also, Stephen Gardiner, Bishop of Winchester went with them but llater changed his position and became a leading opponent of Protestant reforms.
Yeah, I think Fr. Jonathan was mistaken on that point. Nonetheless, the Church holds that Anglican apostolic claims were invalidated when they started ordaining women.
Fr. Jonathan, do you think it's acceptable for Orthodox to say that "there's no salvation outside of the church" in that rigorist way, without sanction? I mean yes, there's a way in which it can be said, but I'm talking about those who would say "if you're not canonically Eastern Orthodox, you will roast". From my perspective this is becoming a missiological nightmare that could be gotten around if our ecclesiastical leadership would get together and articulate a working doctrine on this matter - at least for North America.
Church must be able to unite human been with Jesus . For this reason orthodoxy have special sacrament to sanctify followers. I like to know how many saints have protestant so colet church . This is the salvation just like father mentioned.
9:00 "To say, those people outside the Church are condemned to hell are condemned to hell is to make a statement that places them in a precarious position at the Great Judgement". I would not say that, I (being an evil man) wholeheartedly want them to be saved. Good God who loves them surely wants them to be saved. I just don't see how is that possible with what the Church teaches about salvation, to be saved outside the Church. Dear father, you are putting yourself in a precarious situation during the Great Judgement yourself, I am afraid. I am saying that because I have a speck of love for you. The Lord established His Church for the the sole purpose of our salvation. To think one can get saved outside of the Church - and that's One, Holy, Catholic (we, the Orthodox, are the proper Catholics, but the Papists aren't,) and Apostolic Church, the Orthodox Church, there is no other- is like to hope to cross an ocean on a raft, or jump from 10 thousand feet without a parachute. Very few people survived such fits, and great many perished. I know I am in a precarious situation because I, being an Orthodox Christian, have all the tools of salvation within reach, and I am not using them; this makes me worse off than someone who has no idea there are such tools; Lord, have mercy on us all. But to give a man of even impeccable moral character false comfort that he can remain in his man-made imitation of the Church and hope to be saved is to hate that person. If I tell someone to join Church, they won't listen - for once, I am offering a poor example of Christ disciple. But at least let's not tell them they its OK to remain outside of the Church. Also, at 6:24, unfortunately, as of 2018, there is a difference between Greek Orthodoxy and Russian Orthodoxy: Patriarch of Constantinople established a schism (and one can argue, a heresy, but that's for a Church Council to determine,) so that part of the Church, associated with the said Patriarch, is in danger of falling off. The Church has been in this situation many times before and often recovered, but sometimes part of Her did fall of, as it happened wit the the Roman Patriarchate a thousand years ago. I am ashamed of this development, but here we are. (My name is Russian, but I am a former Greek parishioner, and this situation is a bleeding wound of my heart.) Important to add that Church in Greece does not completely on the same page with the Constantinople, so there is hope.
By saying that we know where the Church is, but we don't know where the Church is not, is to give credence to the idea that those groups separated from the Orthodox in Holy Communion are actual Churches. This cannot be, seeing that would necessarily mean that the body of Christ is divided. I don't say this triumphantly, but only in a spirit of truth and clarity, hoping that all would come to God's Holy Church. I also believe that saying people are Christians outside the Church can be troublesome at best, and spiritually dangerous for those outside the Church at worst. After all, if one, who is not Orthodox, is told by the Orthodox that one can legitimately be a Christian while outside the Orthodox Church, then this may lead to a false sense of security for that individual who might see being a Christian the only important thing, and joining with the Church a distant second. It also betrays what we're really saying which is that one can be a legitimately real Christian without the need of partking in the Holy Mysteries of the faith which are only found in the Church Christ established. This is very dangerous as no priest or bishop of the Orthodox would ever dare tell an Orthodox Christian this, and yet we feel free to tell those who are outside the Church this very thing, and why? So that we don't hurt feelings? We should speak the truth always in love, and that means we should be clear and unambiguous about what we really believe. People's souls and bodies are in danger and the Gospel, the Orthodox Gospel, needs to be preached, even when it's impolite to do so.
I agree. In addition, where do we draw the line? Are Jehovah's Witnesses also Christian? What about Mormons? These groups are fundamentally no different than the various other Protestant sects.
Pentecostal "bishop" OK. It doesn't mean anything when it's all pretend. I'm not being mean spirited bit it's all dress-up. A kid dressed as a doctor saying he's a doctor doesn't make him a doctor
@tom27jr to be fair. What bishopric if it's historicaly impossible? I don't mean it in a mean way. I understand it's not politically correct but it's an honest question.
@@tronical7276 That's why it doesn't speak about his moral character or the good that he has done for people. Telling a child dressed as a fire man that he's not really a fireman and can't really go into a burning building has nothing to do with the fact that the child is a good kid. But saying "bishop" is taking a term that has a source and meaning for oneself. That's wrong. That's what the trans-movement is all about.
@@evangelus3289 I am convergence. I am catholic, evangelical, and charismatic. While I do not enjoy the unity of the Orthodox church, my church confesses the three catholic creeds and believe and practices the sacraments of the church. I am a western Christian.... I am not Roman, but I am indeed catholic whether or not you recognize such. Dialogue starts when I and the Father started.... You can learn a lot from it.
Jesus is one with the Church as spoken of she's His bride in revelations and Jesus spoke of marriage when 1 man and 1 woman marry they become one so quite literally the Church also holds salvation because its led by Jesus aka God
ArchBishop Thomas is aware we don't recognize protestant clergy as Apostolic outside of the Orthodox Church. It's out of charity that we refer to the title but we only recognize the priesthood and so forth in Holy Orthodoxy. ☦️
@@TheTransfiguredLife Of course that is true father, I was simply astounded to hear the term used by a pentecostal group of all Christian congregations. I always imagined they had absolutely no sense of hierarchy at all.
@@WWCC35 it does seem odd but here in Australia before I converted to EO I recognised the largest Pentecostal church locally had an episcopal structure- the hierarchy planned succession and controlled who entered the clergy - nothingness democratic about it- interesting what elements of the truth filter through and what are left out isn’t it??
Church = Biblical Greek, ekklesia: means "assembly of people". Christ's church is just his people. Over time, a variety of denominational polities have arisen with historical and cultural particularities. But those who walk with the Lord Jesus according to the Biblical gospel passed down from the apostles are his church, his congregation. Come, Lord Jesus.
@@tom27jr What I've given is the first three centuries use of the word 'church'. Christ's assembly. Episkopos/presbyteros and diakonos as serving ministers to the local assemblies, and joined in collegial devotion to the gospel. This is the network that the apostles and missionaries founded. Strict hierarchy came later, particularly as many of the bishops began to collude with the Roman imperium, becoming a tool of Roman social control. That is just history.
Yes the Church means ekklesia. The Church is also the body of Christ. Christs body is One, and incarnate, not many and invisible. You are not a member, united in Christ's body if you are not in Communion with it. Secondly the Body of Christ is where the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth dwells. The dogma of different denominations contradict each other, the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist for example. The Holy Spirit does not contradict, he is not schizophrenic. Join the Orthodox Church so you can be united with Christ through the sacraments, the Church that canonized the bible that you misinterperet.
@@douganceK Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Syriac, Oriental, Coptic, Anglican, Protestant, etc. These are all historical and cultural polities, like different cities. It is the people who walked in simple faith in Christ across the generations that are the church, no matter the polity wherein they were born.
@@stephenbailey9969 you did not actually. You gave me the white Eurocentric Protestant definition. You missed the fact that historically the word church like the word synagogue didn't just refer to the people but to the place they met for worship.
Lord have mercy on him like He had on me. I grew up Pentacostal and became Orthodox. No such thing as Pentacostal Bishop though
Lord have mercy! ☦️
Former Oneness Pentecostal now Orthodox Christian. God have mercy on those in this heresy!
I'm definitely a bishop. I'm actually CONVERGENCE.... CATHOLIC, EVANGELICAL, AND CHARISMATIC. Im definitely home!
@@St.MosestheBlackModalist? I’ve heard of them before, but I was raised in a tradition that professed all 3 persons of the Godhead.
@@joshstephens12there are two types of protestant Pentecostals, oneness Pentecostals who believe in medalist heretical nonsense and the other are the regular Pentecostals
I was a part of a Pentecostal Church, that began as an Assemblies of God church and grew to being one of the largest in the State I live in. It had multiple campuses, and several thousands of attendees. The senior pastor spoke of his “apostolic gift/calling” constantly. Eventually, he was made a “bishop” by the laying on of hands - a group of his friends who were spiritual ubermensch gathered and the eldest of them all, also a “bishop”, laid on hands and made him a “bishop”. At the time I had a very limited understanding of the early Church, but I knew that he didn’t have the right or authority of a true Bishop.
Eventually, his earthly kingdom collapsed and he was exposed for the fraud that he is. Unfortunately, many still call him “bishop” and reverence him as such. It’s disgusting actually and heart breaking.
I met my wife at that church, and God drew us away into a spiritual wilderness for nearly a decade. God brought me to Holy Orthodoxy and I was baptized into the Church this past Lazarus Saturday.
I certainly appreciate how this “Arch Bishop” handled this interview.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on our souls.
Welcome to the family. I was baptized on Lazarus Saturday as well but last year.
Glory to God and welcome to Holy Orthodoxy! May our Lord and God and Savior Jesus Christ, through the prayers and intercessions of His holy friend Saint Lazarus, bless you, guide you, and bring you into ever closer union with Him!
Glory be to God, fantastic testimonial!
Imagine how powerful Bishop Thomas Henry could be for Holy Orthodoxy. A few years ago, a local Pentecostal pastor shuddered his church doors and led his congregation into my parish. Pray that Bishop Henry finds the same path.
I am thankful for the journey I am on my friend. I am Convergence and love it.... But I do not mind introducing any pentecostal to Orthodoxy if they feel that is the path they are on.
@@tom27jrPlease tell me you don't ordain women to many convergence and ancient faith groups ordain women.
@@tom27jrMy name is Donnie, we were connected on Tiktok a couple years ago, I was raised in oneness Pentecostalism and had left that some time back...I have been attending an antiochian orthodox church the last year and a half and am now an Orthodox Christian! I always enjoyed listening to you and am pleasantly pleased to see you discussing orthodoxy with Father Jonathon. Bless you.
@@tom27jr My priest in Cumming, GA, Fr. Barnabas Powell, is a former Pentecostal pastor. His story might be intriguing to you, it is available on youtube. You're also welcome anytime at our parish of Sts. Raphael, Nicholas, and Irene Greek Orthodox Church. God bless!
His questions and knowledge and respect- I can't believe he is a pentecostal.
I grew up Pentecostal so I love to see this. What a blessing the internet can be. It didn’t take me long at all to see Orthodoxy was the truth
Me too!
Assemblies of God as a teenager and went to one of their colleges in Florida.
Now an Orthodox catechumen.
Ah what about Peter? The orthodox are in schism with Peter, the one who Jesus promised the keys and has primacy.
@@ntlearning I have no issue with Peter being first amongst apostles. If I saw Peter presiding over the council, or some form of submission to him by the apostles, then I might believe it. But then the question of whether or not Antioch would also have claim to primacy, since Peter established the church there. As far as the keys, the rest of the apostles were given them. The authority, like remitting sin was given to all of them when Jesus breathed on them and said “receive the Holy Spirit”.
Between the Isidorian decretals declaring papal supremacy that are now known to be forgeries, to Fiducia supplicans showing the popes indirect way of affirming homosexual relationships, it seems to me that Rome ought to come back into communion with us. The church always operated in a conciliar fashion, and for rome, it would assist in preventing unclear doctrine like F.A. (Though I know there is schism in orthodox as well). That said, I still love some of the traditions out of Rome.
@@jonmack2437 Firstly, regarding Peter's primacy, Catholic teaching holds that Jesus explicitly conferred a unique role to Peter in Matthew 16:18-19, where He says, "You are Peter, and on this rock, I will build my Church... I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven." The "keys" signify authority, and while the power to bind and loose was later extended to all the apostles (Matthew 18:18), the specific mention of the "keys" to Peter is seen as establishing a special role for him. This is further reinforced in John 21:15-17, where Jesus entrusts Peter specifically with the care of His flock, saying, "Feed my lambs... Tend my sheep."
Historically, the early Church did operate in a conciliar manner, but it did so with a recognition of Peter’s successors in Rome as holding a unique place of honor and authority. For instance, early Church fathers like St. Irenaeus and St. Cyprian acknowledged the special role of the Bishop of Rome. The notion of papal primacy was not an invention of the Middle Ages but was rooted in the early Church's recognition of the Bishop of Rome as the successor to Peter, holding a position of primacy among the bishops.
Regarding the Isidorian Decretals, while they were indeed later recognized as forgeries, they were not the foundation of the doctrine of papal primacy. The concept of the Pope's authority has a much deeper and earlier origin, grounded in the Scriptures and the writings of the Church Fathers. The decretals might have been used to reinforce papal authority during the Middle Ages, but they are not the basis of the doctrine itself.
As for the concerns about unclear doctrines or issues within the Church, it's important to recognize that the Catholic Church believes in the development of doctrine, guided by the Holy Spirit. The Church has always maintained that the truth of the faith is preserved through the Magisterium, which includes the Pope as the principal shepherd and teacher. This ensures continuity and unity in the Church’s teaching across centuries, even as the Church addresses new challenges and questions.
Moreover, it's worth recognizing the contributions that Pentecostalism, and the broader Charismatic movement, have made to the Church, particularly in reviving the charismata-the gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as speaking in tongues, prophecy, and healing. These gifts were present in the early Church and have been affirmed by the Chair of Peter and several Popes as authentic movements of the Holy Spirit. Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI both acknowledged the positive influence of the Charismatic Renewal within the Catholic Church, recognizing that these spiritual gifts have brought a renewed sense of spiritual fervor and have deepened the faith of many Catholics.
This acknowledgment demonstrates that the Catholic Church, under the leadership of the Pope, remains open to the workings of the Holy Spirit across different Christian traditions. While maintaining the primacy of Peter’s successor as the visible head of the Church, the Catholic Church also values the spiritual insights and gifts that other Christian communities bring, affirming the universal nature of the Church and its mission to be a vessel of the Holy Spirit’s work in the world.
The Catholic Church sees the papal office not as a departure from the early Church’s practices but as a continuation and fulfillment of the authority given by Christ to Peter. The call for unity remains strong, and the Catholic Church views the Pope as a visible sign of that unity, serving as a guardian of the faith and a shepherd to the universal Church. At the same time, the Church acknowledges the vibrant contributions of movements like Pentecostalism, embracing the charismata as gifts from the Holy Spirit that enrich the whole Body of Christ.
@@ntlearningI think you’ve been misinformed.
As a former Pentecostal that just started this episode I’m excited. May God lead this Pentecostal bishop to the Church ☦️
Glory to God! ☦️
Come home brothers and sisters
@@robertboucherjr Thank you Robert. Please pray for us! ☦️
i am Catholic. In my lifetime, i have known many Catholic priests, and a lot of Protestant Ministers. I have never known a priest who wants to wear Protestant stuff during Mass, but i know many Protestant Ministers who like to wear Catholic Vestments.
I love how well and boldly Fr. Jonathan answered the questions. So good!
What a wonderful question and answer session between Archbishop Thomas Henry Jr and Father Jonathan Ivanhoff. I was taking notes all the way through but there is so much good information imparted in this video that it’s impossible to share it all in snippets, from speaking about Christ believers outside of the Orthodox Church and how Orthodoxy views them, to what is salvation, the Energies of God like Grace, and what that is, to the Eucharist, to Apostolic Succession and what that is, and how that works, to the importance of having Bishops and Priests, and to more. I would encourage everyone to watch this video, and maybe watch it a couple times at least. It is a fantastic witness given by Fr Jonathan to the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Orthodox Church, the Church founded by Christ and His Apostles, and to what distinguishes it from everyone else that came after it.
Thank you Archbishop Thomas for your wonderful interview of Fr Jonathan, and forgive me, but may I say, I really enjoyed your questions and can see how close you are to becoming Orthodox yourself one day. May God bless you and guide you in all that you do.
And I would say to all, come and visit an Orthodox Parish near you somewhere. Come & see and experience in person what is going on, rather than just listening to just words by anyone, which is important and has its place too. But experiencing it is, if I may say, otherworldly, and it can explain sometimes what can’t be put into words.
Thank you Fr Jonathan for your time and always being willing to answer tough questions with love and respect.
If I was forced to give at least one thing that grabbed my attention in this video, and as I said there was a lot, it would be what you said earlier on in the interview, sharing your own personal belief on the topic of people outside Orthodoxy. You stated the following and I loved it so much, and found it helpful to think of it in this way.
Paraphrasing or adding slightly, here is the quote:
“There are many people outside of the Orthodox Church who are what we would call ‘Catechumens’. They are being prepared, or have been prepared, for a walk with the Lord Jesus Christ, and if they want to come to the fullness of it and the completeness of it, the faith, that is Orthodoxy, the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Orthodox Church, we are ready. I wouldn’t say that people outside of the Orthodox Church are not necessarily Christians.”
Orthodox face East to pray , from whence Christ will come again!
Two likable guys
I’m grateful to God to have learned about Orthodoxy, albeit late in life. I pray more Americans will learn about Orthodoxy with an open heart, as this Pentecostal archbishop is courageously doing in a public way. All glory to God. PS What a delight for the video to be started by the young girl-Luther’s daughter?!
Fr’s response to “no salvation outside the church” was perfect 👍🏻
Yes best I’ve heard from the orthodox
Sooo perfect. I’m an inquiring Protestant and his response made me so much more comfortable than before. I don’t believe anyone denomination/sect of Christianity is 100% perfect. As long as the basics and most important aspects of Christianity are recognized (the Trinity, Jesus being God/son of God and not “just another prophet,” no woke lgbxyz stuff, etc) then the other, lesser discrepancies & disagreements aren’t a big deal and I can’t bring myself to think that a very devout Protestant is destined for Hell because he doesn’t believe Mary stayed a Virgin her entire life & he enjoyed electric guitar & tambourines in his church music. Salvation does require actual action (works) beyond simply confessing “I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins” like a lot of Protestants preach but these actions/good fruit can come from outside of the Orthodox Church & I’m glad to see that at least some Orthodox people understand this. The person themself might be missing the richness and fullness that comes with being Orthodox but actual salvation, I think one can achieve that in any truly Christ centered denomination as long as they’re ACTIVELY following Christ with all their heart. Not just doing the casual Protestant thing where they confess Jesus as their Lord & Savior & go to church a few Sundays out the year and that’s the extent of their spiritual life. God knows the heart and the effort and the intent.
@@CreoleLadyMarmalade I’m glad it was helpful for you! A lot of the experiences Protestants have with “internet orthodox” are very unpleasant. The best experience of the orthodox faith will always be through the experience of the Divine Liturgy in the Church.
@@MicahMarshall4Truth Amen! ☦️
@@MicahMarshall4Truthsame can be said about Protestants even when they act “nice” they’re still blaspheming words spoken by Christ, that’s just as offensive as any “mean words”
17:30 ... the only reason Orthodox churches in the US and UK have pews is because they inherited Protestant churches that had pews.
My parish has no pews, and only seats around the side for those who need them.
It makes a real difference to the ethos and feel of the Liturgy.
Getting rid of the pews, if possible, makes an enormous difference to worship.
My Orthodox Church doesn’t have pews either. Absolutely makes a difference in worshipping God without a doubt.👍☦️
There are differences bw Orthodox churches. Greek orthodox churches have pews.
@@iliasmastoris529 Yes, Greek Orthodox churches in the US do have pews. It's very particular to the US and the UK.
In the UK, it's because Greek communities bought Protestant churches which had pews, and they didn't remove them.
In the USA, they also inherited Protestant churches with pews, but churches they build in the early 1900s didn't have pews. It was only in the middle of the 20th century that many of those churches installed pews.
Basically, it's a Protestant influence.
@@OrthoBrit One of my Church History Professors said that pews were a German invention. Germans like order. Pews cause people to be in orderly rows. Lack of pews results in disorder. Anecdotal, maybe with a grain of truth, which, to me, made it humorous. I think he meant it as humor. But maybe pews did originate in Germany. I really dont know. The principal Catholic Churches in Rome do not have pews. Orthodox Churches do not have pews.
@@erikriza7165well Protestantism or atleast modern day Protestantism was founded in Germany so even if it was a joke it’s probably true in that Protestants started that practice
I am glad the Orthodox church believe in the works of the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately many do come into Orthodoxy with a Calvinistic/Reformed background and begin to publicly bash the gifts and ministries of the Spirit. Colossians 1:26-29 was Paul's main message and it is living and fresh.
It would seem that Thomas is recognizing the truth in Eastern Orthodoxy, and that his role as a "bishop" is invalid, and that he wants the Protestant church he looks over to become an Orthodox parish. Maybe one day he will make a good priest or maybe even a bishop. Even if he becomes just a laymen it would be a blessing. I commend him and his search for truth along with all of those who find Orthodoxy and are in s leadership position within schismatic churches, because if you think about it, it probably takes a lot of humility to step down from a leadership position for the sake of truth and for Christ instead of being in a delusion because you want to be a leader. May God bless him and his search for the truth.
@@youngkob3408 you response is why I took issue initially with the introduction. You missed entirely the point of the video. Your response would turn a searching soul away. I'm definitely a bishop according to the Augustine view. I'm convergence and embrace the ancient faith. I lean more Anglo-Catholic .... Grace and Peace
@@tom27jr Sorry if I offended you in any way brother, that was justmy impression, maybe I was wrong. I also have no idea what you practice, Ive just seen this video. But on the note of being a bishop, even if you have a completely Orthodox faith, if you weren't ordained by other bishops in the Church then you wouldn't be recognized as bishop within the Eastern Orthodox church. I dont mean to be polemical or anything sorry if I come off ass harsh, I appreciate your respect for tradition and I believe if you keep yearning for the Truth, by Gods grace many blessings will come out of it. Maybe you will become an Orthodox bishop in the future for all I know. I hope to see your future discussions and have a great day brother.
Nice conversation. Mr. Thomas Henry was very gracious through being told that he is essentially wrong in some respects, and Fr. Jonathan was kind and non-offensive in his stating of the Orthodox position and faith. I, as a catechumen, learned some, and gained a respect for both men.
☦❤🇩🇰
Gotta say again Father, excellent video very professional and I’m impressed how amicable he was. Selfishly praying he can be swayed to fullness of Christ found in Holy Orthodoxy.
@@TheChadmiral I initiated the video and Father agreed. Wanted to introduce Orthodoxy to those unfamiliar with it. I consider Father a good friend.
We need this man in the body of Christ☦️
Former Oneness Pentecostal now Orthodox. Modalism/charismania are growing and OP/Pentecostals make Apostolic claims. Orthodoxy needs to combat this better and challenge popular OP theologians (instead of the same old Roman Catholic/Islam debates). I attempted to set up a debate between UPCI theologian/Superintendient David Bernard on Transfigured Life only to get blocked by Bernard with no response (I think Luther reached out to him as well). As a former OP I knew nothing about the Orthodox Church until I left that sect and studied Church history. Orthodox Christians need to reach these people better.
@@St.MosestheBlack oh yes, was this the one that publicly called out the Orthodox but yet walked back his debate challenge or am I thinking of someone else?
-Luther
@@TheTransfiguredLife I believe you’re thinking of someone else maybe that was a church of Christ guy. I don’t know of any Pentecostals willing to engage with Orthodox. I’m not sure if Mr. Bernard ended up ever getting back to you.
Yeah, I left oneness Pentecostalism and by God's grace have found Holy Orthodoxy. I'm not yet a catechumen but am desperately moving in that direction, myself being fully persuaded of Orthodoxy. I was a oneness Pentecostal preacher since I was 18. I haven't even updated my RUclips channel but hope to soon. What a shock to my audience when I tell them haha. I studied Orthodoxy for the past three years and one year ago I stepped down from preaching because I could no longer stomach protestantism and knew I was outside of the Church. Oneness Pentecostals call themselves "Apostolic" but in fact they are so far removed from being Apostolic that it hurts. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner! Pray for me and my family to be received into the Church.
@@RediscoveringChristianity what a wonderful testimony! God grant you many years bro!
@@St.MosestheBlack Thank you!
I think the Blessed Augustine first said “we know where the Church is, but not where the Church is not” following the Lord’s saying to the Apostles “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.” (John 10:16)
Grace and Peace,
There was a slight misunderstanding but all is well. I look forward to further conversations with Father as we discuss in a future setting...Orthodox beliefs and practices, The Holy Theotokos, and much more.
Great stream, thank you for having this discussion!
Excellent stuff brother Luther. May the Lord continue to bless you and your family
Thank you for this conversation.
Please pray for my understanding. As a protestant inquirer, the differing views within the orthodox world on "outside the church there is no salvation" make understanding it difficult. Fr Ivanoff gives a 'generous' interpretation; other priests with online presence seem much more strict.
God knows the heart. It does feel offensive to know there is THE CHURCH and a protestant divorced from that church by centuries is missing the sacraments/mysteries like the Eucharist for example. That doesn't mean you or I do not love Christ, and that Christ isn't drawing us to Himself. Which is the Church. When Paul asked Jesus who are you? Jesus self identified as the Church. "I am Jesus who you are persecuting."
2000 years of the church is hard to ignore....
Favor the opinions of Orthodox offline. A lot of the online Orthodox are being extreme because it gets them views.
@@kmj2000 I agree!
the church makes no judgements on an individuals salvation. Thats left to the Lord. The church simply says you need to become orthodox
@@kmj2000 We may not be extreme but also must reflect on the Saints and Church Fathers and their teachings as well
i've been around people seeking miracles and tongues and I am fed up with them. i see a bunch of self seeking people with no concern for living for God. And many protestant churches where pastors expect to be worshipped. I appreciate being allowed to partake of the bread just can't wait to be taken into the Church. As an older person with rheumatic arthritis i am thankful for the few seats in our Orthodox Church of America.
So glad I'm no longer in the pentecostal movement. I realized so many things did not line up with truth and scripture. #HappilyOrthodox☦️💜
True but to say that Eastern Orthodoxy lines up with scripture takes some serious mental gymnastics.
@@ReformedBrant Scriptures line up with Orthodox as they came Later. You Church or belief did not exist.
@@ronbest65 the Eastern Orthodox Church didn’t exist then either and they have many traditions that are opposed to scripture.
@@ReformedBrant you do not know history
@@ronbest65 better than you
Respectfully, Father, the Western Rite is fully Orthodox, very beautiful, and growing. You can learn more from Bishop John Abdullah
very cool. love to see fruitful conversations like this
I love your channel, Father. It will grow, God willing!
she said "yeah, me neither" 😂 so cute 0:22
Haha thank you 😂❤️
A very good book I think will resonate with many in or from a Pentecostal/charismatic background is “Thirsting for God in a Land of Shallow Wells” by Matthew Gallatin.
Hopefully a fruitful discussion for all parties 🙏
Amen! ☦️
Awesome conversation
☦️☦️☦️
Bruh the fire alarm driving me nuts
Same lol
😂😂😂 I thought it was in my house at first!! Lol
That intro alone got the Thumbs 👍.
Loved this video! ❤️
@@aklt4923 Thanks Alicia! ☦️💙
I was pentecostal doing lot of evangelism and missionary work. Now i am EO. Only problem is that orthodox church does not do evangelism nor missionary work. I know some monks and priests can do that but we ordinary orthoodox christian cannot do it. So after i became orthodox i started to loose my zeal to God becouse i could not do anymore my calling. Even priest told my to do nothing. So i have started to becoume more secular that i use to be.
You can still reach out to others. It may not be preaching on the street corner with poster board signs...🪧 but you can give alms, feed the poor, help someone, when you give someone some water you are giving it to Christ. Be a part of a prison ministry in Orthodoxy. They are huge on that. Orthodox who are able to get into prisons say they don't look at it as visiting some criminal. But they are going to visit Christ, when I was in prison you visited me...there are many places who can give...don't focus on getting the boxes checked and getting people to repeat a prayer to be saved. Thats not salvation, never was. Be encouraged and just influence people you can touch and find someone to help....Christ sees that and in judgement you will be placed on his right...
I don't know who told you that you cannot do evangelism or that the Orthodox church does not do evangelism but whoever told you that is wrong wrong wrong. We don't do evangelism in the same way that protestants do, but we most certainly do it. Please reconsider and please talk to other Orthodox people not just one or two especially not just one or two online.
@@gregcoogan8270 all the orthodox people I know they dont do evangelism and they even despise those who do. Even my priest told me we dont do evangelism actively. Evangelism is not just "living christian life". Most peoplw are good and behave well even bettere that many orthodox do. We need words. Evangelism is proclaiming. Not just hiding.
@@gabrielgabriel5177 you need to expand your circle of Orthodox people.
@@gregcoogan8270 in my country we have only minority orthodox. Even that it is our native orthodox church but still minority and even those minority are not very active. Most people dont care about it at all. So its quite hard to expand.
Fr. Jonathan Ivanoff. My Bishop/clergy have said it this way about salvation outside Orthodoxy.
To answer as best as my clergy have stated. God may have means to join those outside of his church to the church before the final judgement. HOWEVER we must advocate for the NORMATIVE means God uses. So it is better to say salvation is found in the Orthodox church and extra normative means that God uses is for him NOT US. For us it is to say what God has revealed and that it is found in Orthodoxy.
WHAT A DELIGHTFUL LITTLE GIRL!!!!
Thank you! 💙
Such a cutie! ❤
Fr. Jonathan, wouldn’t it be correct to say (stealing from Fr. Stephen DeYoung) that grace is “God’s acting in the world”?
Question 🙋🏻 - As an ex Pentecostal pastor /ex-bishop myself who became orthodox …. I still struggle with things. So How did you guys who are orthodox and ex Pentecostal reconcile/deal with the speaking or praying in tongues?? Do you still do it? If not, Do you miss it? If you don’t, How do you just stop praying in tongues and turn it off? And is that okay or healthy? Or should we not do it? If so, why or why not? I’m trying to find out what the Official Orthodox answer is and what they teach on it. I could never get a straight answer.
Read 1 Corinthians the whole book. The apostle Paul gives a good discourse on the subject.
@@zealousideal your questions are why I am convergence today
@@Sonwalkers247 that’s exactly the problem brother. I know what scripture says inside and out. I’m a retired bishop and pastor. I believe in it. But I became orthodox and there seems to be no answer or stance from them on what THEY believe about it. I have degrees in it to doctorate level and taught the gospel and Pentecostalism worldwide for decades. I didn’t ask what the Bible says about it. I could write books on it. I asked what do orthodox teach and believe.
If you aren’t Orthodox and don’t know and aren’t ex Pentecostal please don’t respond. Frankly, I miss ministry and Pentecostalism or at least parts of it. It seems everyone avoids the topic and they don’t know much about it sadly. I’ve performed healings and miracles worldwide for decades and spoke and prayed in tongues for hours a day. I find it both fascinating and scary you would tell me to go read 1 Cor as if I’ve never read the Bible. Your comment unless you’re joking is very insulting, disrespectful and disturbing. You wouldn’t tell your bishop or Metropolitan maybe he should go read the Bible about a topic would you?
@@tom27jr why is that? Seems everyone here is being sarcastic or judgmental. Re read what I said. I have to admit online ortho bros are the worst. Geez 🤦🏽♂️
I’ve also noticed many who convert to Orthodox have been leaving it too.
I’ve asked these questions for years and can’t get any solid answers sadly. It seems those in orthodoxy are not well versed in the Holy Spirit and even priests can’t give a good answer. Even the ex Pentecostals don’t really answer the question. It’s very simple but I’m concerned on their understandings of the Holy Spirit and gifts. We all can have this power and gifts by the way. I’ve seen, taught and experienced this all my life.
@@zealousideal You will more or less find a different answer per bishop or priest. I have found the most negative on the subject are orthodox people who were prior converts from Calvinism. Unfortunately some priest do not teach them the 'Gifts' are for today and the Spirit is still moving in the earth through the church, this leads into rigorism and a pharisaical level of judgment. I know Orthodox priest who can use the teachings of the early church fathers to prove the gifts of the Spirit. Even St Symeon mentions speaking in tongues twice in his poetry but doesn't make it front, line and center of his theology. A known orthodox priest told me 'Many priest are closet tongue talkers but afraid of their bishops'.
Case in point not everyone is unified on the subject and that is OK ....bigger theological issues are preserved and the life of God is manifest in the liturgy depending on what man dares to see. When it comes to ministry some of the biggest world shakers were among the laity. The priesthood helps serve and govern the church. The job of laity is to get the gospel out, but rather than how pentecostals do it (bragging) you do it until the Lord with only your priest and bishop knowing. Your reward comes from heaven. Go to the highways and byways and compel the lost to come in so that the house of God might be full. If you have gifts confess your sins, walk in holiness and let the Spirit work through you and brag to no one.
☦️☦️🙏🏿
Thomas Cranmer, John Stokesley, Bishop of London, Thomas Goodrich, Bishop of Ely and Edward Lee, Archbishop of York, All went over to Anglicanism in support of Henry VIII. Also, Stephen Gardiner, Bishop of Winchester went with them but llater changed his position and became a leading opponent of Protestant reforms.
Yeah, I think Fr. Jonathan was mistaken on that point. Nonetheless, the Church holds that Anglican apostolic claims were invalidated when they started ordaining women.
there is definitely the presence of the smoke detectore churp ;)
Minute 22:02 was that a fire alarm battery needed to be changed ? 😅
Hungry ceiling bird, chirping for his food 🐦
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Archbishp Henry should chat with Fr Turbo Qualls
@@Byzantios1 I consider Father Ivanoff a friend and we have dialogue in the past.
Abp Thomas Henry
@@tom27jr A very fruitful discussion. Orthodoxy isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
May God lead you in discernment about these important issues.
Bishop needs to change his smoke detector battery.
Fr. Jonathan, do you think it's acceptable for Orthodox to say that "there's no salvation outside of the church" in that rigorist way, without sanction? I mean yes, there's a way in which it can be said, but I'm talking about those who would say "if you're not canonically Eastern Orthodox, you will roast". From my perspective this is becoming a missiological nightmare that could be gotten around if our ecclesiastical leadership would get together and articulate a working doctrine on this matter - at least for North America.
Church must be able to unite human been with Jesus . For this reason orthodoxy have special sacrament to sanctify followers. I like to know how many saints have protestant so colet church . This is the salvation just like father mentioned.
9:00 "To say, those people outside the Church are condemned to hell are condemned to hell is to make a statement that places them in a precarious position at the Great Judgement". I would not say that, I (being an evil man) wholeheartedly want them to be saved. Good God who loves them surely wants them to be saved. I just don't see how is that possible with what the Church teaches about salvation, to be saved outside the Church.
Dear father, you are putting yourself in a precarious situation during the Great Judgement yourself, I am afraid. I am saying that because I have a speck of love for you. The Lord established His Church for the the sole purpose of our salvation. To think one can get saved outside of the Church - and that's One, Holy, Catholic (we, the Orthodox, are the proper Catholics, but the Papists aren't,) and Apostolic Church, the Orthodox Church, there is no other- is like to hope to cross an ocean on a raft, or jump from 10 thousand feet without a parachute. Very few people survived such fits, and great many perished. I know I am in a precarious situation because I, being an Orthodox Christian, have all the tools of salvation within reach, and I am not using them; this makes me worse off than someone who has no idea there are such tools; Lord, have mercy on us all.
But to give a man of even impeccable moral character false comfort that he can remain in his man-made imitation of the Church and hope to be saved is to hate that person. If I tell someone to join Church, they won't listen - for once, I am offering a poor example of Christ disciple. But at least let's not tell them they its OK to remain outside of the Church.
Also, at 6:24, unfortunately, as of 2018, there is a difference between Greek Orthodoxy and Russian Orthodoxy: Patriarch of Constantinople established a schism (and one can argue, a heresy, but that's for a Church Council to determine,) so that part of the Church, associated with the said Patriarch, is in danger of falling off. The Church has been in this situation many times before and often recovered, but sometimes part of Her did fall of, as it happened wit the the Roman Patriarchate a thousand years ago. I am ashamed of this development, but here we are. (My name is Russian, but I am a former Greek parishioner, and this situation is a bleeding wound of my heart.) Important to add that Church in Greece does not completely on the same page with the Constantinople, so there is hope.
By saying that we know where the Church is, but we don't know where the Church is not, is to give credence to the idea that those groups separated from the Orthodox in Holy Communion are actual Churches. This cannot be, seeing that would necessarily mean that the body of Christ is divided. I don't say this triumphantly, but only in a spirit of truth and clarity, hoping that all would come to God's Holy Church.
I also believe that saying people are Christians outside the Church can be troublesome at best, and spiritually dangerous for those outside the Church at worst. After all, if one, who is not Orthodox, is told by the Orthodox that one can legitimately be a Christian while outside the Orthodox Church, then this may lead to a false sense of security for that individual who might see being a Christian the only important thing, and joining with the Church a distant second. It also betrays what we're really saying which is that one can be a legitimately real Christian without the need of partking in the Holy Mysteries of the faith which are only found in the Church Christ established. This is very dangerous as no priest or bishop of the Orthodox would ever dare tell an Orthodox Christian this, and yet we feel free to tell those who are outside the Church this very thing, and why? So that we don't hurt feelings? We should speak the truth always in love, and that means we should be clear and unambiguous about what we really believe. People's souls and bodies are in danger and the Gospel, the Orthodox Gospel, needs to be preached, even when it's impolite to do so.
I agree. In addition, where do we draw the line? Are Jehovah's Witnesses also Christian? What about Mormons? These groups are fundamentally no different than the various other Protestant sects.
Wow men create many systems & customs to exclude so many faithful believers in Christ from the Church. So sad.
The Grace is Uncredited Light in Orthodoxy . Roman-Chatolic church the Grace is created , which is wrong.
Pentecostal "bishop"
OK. It doesn't mean anything when it's all pretend.
I'm not being mean spirited bit it's all dress-up.
A kid dressed as a doctor saying he's a doctor doesn't make him a doctor
I'm a convergence bishop. The usage of the word Pentecostal was intentional. I am not seeking Orthodox approval of my bishopric.
@tom27jr to be fair. What bishopric if it's historicaly impossible?
I don't mean it in a mean way.
I understand it's not politically correct but it's an honest question.
@evangelus3289 this type of correctness is useless. What will come from telling people off who have worked in there communion their whole lives?
@@tronical7276 That's why it doesn't speak about his moral character or the good that he has done for people.
Telling a child dressed as a fire man that he's not really a fireman and can't really go into a burning building has nothing to do with the fact that the child is a good kid.
But saying "bishop" is taking a term that has a source and meaning for oneself. That's wrong. That's what the trans-movement is all about.
@@evangelus3289 I am convergence. I am catholic, evangelical, and charismatic. While I do not enjoy the unity of the Orthodox church, my church confesses the three catholic creeds and believe and practices the sacraments of the church. I am a western Christian.... I am not Roman, but I am indeed catholic whether or not you recognize such. Dialogue starts when I and the Father started.... You can learn a lot from it.
Salvation belongs to God not "The Church"...I can't believe they have so little fear of The Lord!!
Jesus is one with the Church as spoken of she's His bride in revelations and Jesus spoke of marriage when 1 man and 1 woman marry they become one so quite literally the Church also holds salvation because its led by Jesus aka God
God brings us salvation through His church.... How can they hear without a preacher.... the preacher comes from the church
@@tom27jr that proves the point God saves through His bride the Church but of course the Church is led by God
In the Bible there is no separation between God and His Church. Does that mean the people aren't in that Church are damned? Not at all.
Can someone help brother Thomas to say “Ask” correctly? :)
So rude
He is not a Pentecostal Bishop for the record!
Yes, I have spoke with the Bishop. The information about his particular protestant sect has been updated in the video description.
Pentecostal bishop? What is that? lol
ArchBishop Thomas is aware we don't recognize protestant clergy as Apostolic outside of the Orthodox Church. It's out of charity that we refer to the title but we only recognize the priesthood and so forth in Holy Orthodoxy. ☦️
@@TheTransfiguredLife Of course that is true father, I was simply astounded to hear the term used by a pentecostal group of all Christian congregations. I always imagined they had absolutely no sense of hierarchy at all.
@@WWCC35 it does seem odd but here in Australia before I converted to EO I recognised the largest Pentecostal church locally had an episcopal structure- the hierarchy planned succession and controlled who entered the clergy - nothingness democratic about it- interesting what elements of the truth filter through and what are left out isn’t it??
@@WWCC35 black pentecostals have always embraced a ministerial hierarchy
@@tom27jr very true! yes they have! I was one!
There is an Orthodox bishop hiding in the Early Methodist/Holiness/Pentecostal stream !early collaborator with John Wesley!find Him!
“Pentecostal bishop” umm ok if you say so
Church = Biblical Greek, ekklesia: means "assembly of people".
Christ's church is just his people.
Over time, a variety of denominational polities have arisen with historical and cultural particularities. But those who walk with the Lord Jesus according to the Biblical gospel passed down from the apostles are his church, his congregation.
Come, Lord Jesus.
You ignore the first three centuries usage of the word Church. Most white american protestants do this which is sad.
@@tom27jr What I've given is the first three centuries use of the word 'church'. Christ's assembly. Episkopos/presbyteros and diakonos as serving ministers to the local assemblies, and joined in collegial devotion to the gospel. This is the network that the apostles and missionaries founded.
Strict hierarchy came later, particularly as many of the bishops began to collude with the Roman imperium, becoming a tool of Roman social control.
That is just history.
Yes the Church means ekklesia. The Church is also the body of Christ. Christs body is One, and incarnate, not many and invisible. You are not a member, united in Christ's body if you are not in Communion with it.
Secondly the Body of Christ is where the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth dwells. The dogma of different denominations contradict each other, the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist for example. The Holy Spirit does not contradict, he is not schizophrenic. Join the Orthodox Church so you can be united with Christ through the sacraments, the Church that canonized the bible that you misinterperet.
@@douganceK Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Syriac, Oriental, Coptic, Anglican, Protestant, etc.
These are all historical and cultural polities, like different cities.
It is the people who walked in simple faith in Christ across the generations that are the church, no matter the polity wherein they were born.
@@stephenbailey9969 you did not actually. You gave me the white Eurocentric Protestant definition. You missed the fact that historically the word church like the word synagogue didn't just refer to the people but to the place they met for worship.