I've always liked first gen Mustangs and parked my 66 coupe until I'll be fixing back into a driver again. What you're doing with this car is amazing. Blows away what Shelby did for Hertz weekend quarter-mile rent-a-racers. I'm actually winding back thru your posts after learning about your channel on Uncle Tony's. I loved the way Uncle Tony's jaw dropped during the red Ford pick-up expose when he saw the finished result on mounting this 427 properly.
Thanks for the demonstration of why you can't just drop in a 427 into a modified Mustang. This is why you need someone who understands what needs to be done and not someone who just wants to take your money. Great video and we'll see you next time.
KIwi, I'm just floored with your analytical-troubleshooting skills. And to boot, by placing the engine back, you've even created better handling for that Mustang, in effect, a foward-mid engine car. Well done, good sir!
After watching the b.s. from the previous "builders - if you can even call them that" it didn't surprise me to see you rip that tacked on engine mount by hand lol.
Just get a 1969 Ford 4WD truck PAN And pickup . You hay be able to use Ford motor mounts if you fabricate 4 bolt plates to go behind the 2 bolt early Ford block . Use nuts and bolts on the 2 empty plate holes. We did this with early 2 bolt engines in newer cars.
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 Just curious if the subframe is out of a Fox Body Mustang ? When I did jobs like that people thought the factory did it and yhat was my aim.
Kiwi, I have a '65 Mustang GT with that same front end. I did it over 20 yrs. ago. It causes oilpan issues that were easily solved by using a foxbody 5.0 oilpan. Many years ago in college a friend had a '67 GT 390. There was a lot of bashing done at the factory to get that engine in. The floor shifter came up in the same hole as the small block. On my '65 I used a T5 transmission and the shifter also fit the original hole with a little modification. There may be a rear sump oilpan available for the 427 FE, I don't know. Back in 1969 we used a Shelby oilpan on the 390 that added 2 quarts. I really enjoy your work. It's clean, neat and well thought out. This Mustang will really benefit from your touch. Loved the sawsall scene! Ford should have done that! See you in the next one, Dave
Wow! I appreciate your patience in trying to fix someone else's big problem that they made with this great car !!! I understand the rack and pinion being in the way among other things. Yea, we've had 390s in 67-68 Mustangs and the 68 428 Cobra Jets but you have great skill in trying to fix and cut this high end restomod car! I love your channel and has great content that I learn a lot from all types of cars coming in your shop 👍🏁
Hi there ,Thanks for coming back to me about my comment below , I fully agree that the lower arm and the outer track rod should be paralell to the road surface which Is why Ive always preferd the Holden type front end design over the Ford although Farmers loved the Falcon for its high ground clearance over the Holden and before that the Vangaurd with their cross members acting as Dozer blades in paddock work. I started with a company in 1983 that specialised in the restoration of historic racing cars from sedans to open wheelers after a few years I went out on my own doing similar but not the same work and here I am , its 2022 and Im still at it .As you say there is a bit of lee-way as far as placement goes in some instances.Good luck with it. How did the factory get the big block in,did it have a different fire wall pressing ? John Keane .Aus.
The factory set up was a rear steer set up with a steering box so the oil pan was set up to the front. This car has a front mounted steering rack and that's what makes it difficult. The oil pump wants be in the same spot as the rack If it had a Chevy rear distributor/ oil pump set up she'd be done and gone by now😁
Instead of modifying crossmember I would mod the pan. That second front sump is odd since the pickup cant access the oil. If you cut it off and add to the back sump, the eingine can be moved back easily. without messing with crossmember/steering. It would also allow for moving the rack later to correct any potential bump steer issues etc due to rack placement
The oil pump is in the front bowl of the pan but picks up oil from the rear bowl via a long pick up tube. So the front has to stay. It's a Ford thing as the distributor is at the front of the engine and the oil pump runs off that
I was wondering how in the F you were going to shoehorn that baby in there...but it's apparent that you.ve either done this before...or (as we used to tell the customers in my trade) I studied the book all night last night LOL Great job sir, you rock!
Oh how we complicate our lives when adding all these aftermarket major components, each on it’s own might fit, leaving the sketchy engineering out of it for the moment, but when you start adding multiples, the complications go exponential. Modification has always been the essence of rodding, but historically, it’s what ever the owner was capable of doing himself, rather than the owner drawing up a wish list and dropping the car off at the local shop.
It appears she'll buff out OK, but every time I look at the oil pan configuration on that engine, I think of another question. It would be interesting to know what's going on inside. Oh yeah, when I was a wee lad, after watching the TV test pattern until Saturday morning cartoons started, "Black Beauty" came on after "The Lone Ranger" and "Sky King". We could receive two TV stations and they were both black and white. Life was good.
To look at the monster mess of monkey business handed to you from the other hack shop (understatement), and what you have already figured out and started to accomplish restores my faith that there still exist REAL smart men, who create with their hands and heads, genuine, classic, functional works of art! These shows document your work and inspire countless others to set the bar higher! On top of this, you are seemingly humble, but your can do attitude from ripping out a motor mount with your bare hands to the beautiful finished products you do, shows exceptional ability and intense determination. The people who bring their cars to you are lucky indeed and do not need to ever question what their paying for!
What about a 4x4 oil pan from a early 70s pick truck that had a 360, , 390 FE series they were mid/ rear sump pans..... that might work for some one who didnt want to do fab work on thier fire wall...i understand.the delema here with the after market front suspension.....but for some one who wanted.to add rack and.pinion...maby??
That 4x4 pan is what the Canton one that's on the engine is based on. You have the same issues with height and room for the radiator. Then add in a serpentine front drive, electric fans and an A/C condenser and it's more crowded than Times Square on on New Years eve
The FEs were very tight in mid size cars, thats why the 390GT/427/428 Had special exhaust manifolds, the wildest being the 66-67 427 Fairlane and 68 Cougar GTE.
id hate to come across as an AHOLE but why not put in a decent Clevo or even better for space a high revvin windsor ,theres like bugger all space with that ol motor in that engine bay ,just my humble opinion,so glad i found this channel its bloody grouse ,i been tellin all the lads at work ,beaters are pretty keen to take a gander but the painters are not real fussed ,funny bunch up in the paintshop far too many fumes ,keep up the tiptop content Kiwi
He wants a big block, I get it, they have a certain wow factor when you lift the hood. I own a 66 with a 557 in it. I know a big inch windsor would have made a better handling car but the heart wants what heart the wants. Google KSV9000 if you want to see it
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 OUTSTANDING Kiwi,i just watched the youtube with you and i instantly recognised the man who painted the KSV9000, of course he was on Dereks channel helping him out ,only the worlds best painter a true artist ,just amazing mate 10/10
I understand what the customer wants here. I need to state the obvious here...there are so many better options than that FE. The price he could sell it for would probably finance the installation of a Windsor/Cleveland/boss. Heck the new 7.3 Godzilla or coyote...I know he is probably going for that old school feel. Sometimes you just give people what they want and not what they need.
7:24 that's not an ASE certified firewall cutter with Ford stamp of certification nor is this an authorized approach to doing this procedure according to those who authorize certification! What this means is best case if the placement works out which is questionable regardless what is done the windows will always roll themselves down and the back bumper will continually open the trunk unless a dyna diamond pack 13-13-90 is added to the fuel introduction and distributing module under the left rear tire! Even then the motor must be completely warmed up similar to the motor break in while the car itself remains ice cold!
I like the threaded back to front adjustment on that cherry picker. Will you have to put the radiator in the trunk or maybe move the grill framing forward?
You cant move the rack ! its got to go where it has to go ,And that is in plan view it must be straight across the car ,Also in horizontal view it must be straight at ride height ,modify something else or go back to a stock system ,Other wise you will have a Pig of a handling car .John Keane .Aus.
Actually you can! In this Heidts front suspension set up the rack is moved back about 40mm to help squeeze it into the notch in the oil pan. The impact from that is negligible when talking about a road/production car. Keep in mind that we're not trying to build a Formuls One here. In the horizontal view the rack does not want to be straight, it needs to be at a height that places the steering arms as close to parallel to the lower control arms. If your control arms droop down like 99.9% of production cars then your steering arms need to do the same or the resulting bump steer will be detrimental.
Lol. It would be quicker and it would solve the engine bay space issues. But what about the weight of the batteries and where to put them. Teslas and such are heavy due to the batteries. To the point of needing different tires to cope with weight if want any kind of range. For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction.
I am a bit of an amateur at welding but even my first ever tack welds when learning in class were much better than that chewing gum and bird poop they tacked those mounts on with.
Some don't like that but the alternative is putting a very high price on to cover your your ass or a price you think you can do it for. Then if it blows out the temptation is to cut corners to make the job fit the quote. Not going to either of those.
Based on what I read in Smokey Yumick's book, the big block Mustang was bad deal. The amount of weight so far forward in the chassis made it a bad handling package. This isn't to say the mods on this example won't work. It's just a challenge. A built, modern, small block seems like a better choice. The issue I see with moving the rack is the probability of increasing bump steer. You may want to rethink that choice...jus' saying.
The height of the rack is more critical than its forward/ back location. The rack is squeezed back on its original mounts to help it fit into the notch in the pan. I'll just be stretching it forward a similar amount
Will moving the rack forward mess up anything, like create bump-steer or something like that? When you get that car done, you need to drive it over to the last shop which worked on it, and be like "look, I fixed it for you..." And not to be 'that guy,' but I'd like to see/hear you invest in a remote mic, since it can be difficult to hear you when you are farther from the camera.
No, the rack is squeezed back in stock form to help it fit in the notch in the pan. We're just going to stretch it forward a similar amount and the notch the crossmember to make room. The height of the rack is much more important the forward/back orientation. Of course you can't go crazy with it
What is the purpose of the front section of the oil pan? Everything I've found on 427 Oil pans shows the deep part of the pan (and I assume the pickup) is in the back of the pan. I don't see many pans with much of any depth in the front section of the pan.
If you go too far it will impact the bump steer negatively. The rack is squeezed back on these set ups to fit in the notch in the pan so bringing it forward straightens it out
Why would you NOT start by removing the hydraulic hard lines off the rack? 1 1- 1/2 inch of space??? Dropping a 390 in with the STOCK suspension was simple IF you had the right heads with the horizontal exhaust bolt pattern & manifolds or headers. You SURE that isn't a 406 CID block... You didn't state the block casting code. At 1:37 the block DOES NOT display the side oiler passages to the mains above the cross bolts ---- top oiler most likely from a MARINE application. AND it appears to have PRESS IN freeze plugs vs 427 screw in brass plugs... First 427 cross bolts were all top oilers even the first 427 Cobras BUT the motor mount holes make me believe early 406 OR marine.. not a side oiler. Which are almost useless anyways. How many places can you run an engine for an hour + at over 6,500 rpm???? BTW I do have a 427 TOP OILER in my garage. Too bad I can't post a photo here. It does have the 4 engine mount holes & screw in freeze plugs so your block must be really early. and again that it may be a 406. From what I could discern it looked like the head casting is a C1AE-A early 1960s but they are 352 & 390 -- 406 are a C2SE with the 6V intake. THAT oil pan is NOT a Ford FE pan but a ?? Canton?? REAR SUMP bastard pan to clear a totally different steering system. FORD front sump system was designed for steering linkage BEHIND the cross member Had they even used the Ford FE 4X4 rear sump pan it may have cleared the TOTALLY DIFFERENT front added sub frame and rack. That front hard line loop in the centre of the rack is taking a lot of usable room away from engine location.Why didn't you consider just cutting out the cross member and MOVING it back 2 inches? Rack ends should have still worked with the steering arms. Seems MUCH easier than butchering the firewall. OR extending the rack mounts forward and down????
Wow that's a lot. Pretty sure I never said it was a side oiler. I'm just putting the "427" the customer asked me to install. I stated in the video that I intend to cut the cross member and that is why the firewall needs"butchering" as you say. The canton pan is designed for the FE and a front rack set up. Simply removing the hydraulic lines is NOT going to give enough room and to suggest a manual rack would be just silly.
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 The side oiler was mentioned in prior video but I question even if its a 427 block with push in freeze plugs and the lack of mounting holes. Cyl head cast numbers are wrong as I stated. Notching the cross member helps but moving the whole cross member back seems a lot easier considering the steering is not finished. I never stated to replace the rack but that new flexible or even other hard lines could be created giving you additional working room. Still wonder who made that sub frame and if they intended Chevy power? Chevy to Ford trans Lakewood bell would have been a drop in.
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I've always liked first gen Mustangs and parked my 66 coupe until I'll be fixing back into a driver again. What you're doing with this car is amazing. Blows away what Shelby did for Hertz weekend quarter-mile rent-a-racers. I'm actually winding back thru your posts after learning about your channel on Uncle Tony's. I loved the way Uncle Tony's jaw dropped during the red Ford pick-up expose when he saw the finished result on mounting this 427 properly.
Ripping out that engine mount with your hand was priceless! I really enjoy watching your videos. Fabrication at its best. Thank you.
Yeah that was a bit of fun. Thanks for watching
I might add, the guys that own these cars must get the warm fuzzies watching a bit of workmanship going into their projects.
Most of them do yes!
Kiwi your channel is great love your work.
Thanks man
Kiwi... You are a True Magician!
Thanks man
Thanks for the demonstration of why you can't just drop in a 427 into a modified Mustang. This is why you need someone who understands what needs to be done and not someone who just wants to take your money. Great video and we'll see you next time.
Glad your enjoying it!
Your surgical with that body saw 👍
Yeah but they get paid way more! Thanks though
Really good, I like your manager bird.
That's Kiwi Kev! He manages to sneak into most of the videos😁
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 👍😁
Great job 👍🏾👊🏽 great video
I just shook my head when you pulled that mount off......
Good job Kiwi, and I'm really digging this build.
Herculeeees Herculeeees your so strong!!! 🤣😂. Well ok the welds were crap but hey
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 Great movie line reference! 😂🤣 I can picture mama now, clapping her hands "Hercules, Hercules ..." 😁
KIwi, I'm just floored with your analytical-troubleshooting skills. And to boot, by placing the engine back, you've even created better handling for that Mustang, in effect, a foward-mid engine car. Well done, good sir!
Glad your enjoying it
I thought the same with the balance thing.
Can't wait to see the next portion. I love watching good fabrication
thanks man!
After watching the b.s. from the previous "builders - if you can even call them that" it didn't surprise me to see you rip that tacked on engine mount by hand lol.
And you didn't need a shoehorn either! You must have ice water running through your viens Kiwi!
😎😎👍
Just get a 1969 Ford 4WD truck PAN And pickup . You hay be able to use Ford motor mounts if you fabricate 4 bolt plates to go behind the 2 bolt early Ford block . Use nuts and bolts on the 2 empty plate holes. We did this with early 2 bolt engines in newer cars.
That's the style pan it has on it just made by canton. It doesn't fit with front mounted rack
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 Just curious if the subframe is out of a Fox Body Mustang ? When I did jobs like that people thought the factory did it and yhat was my aim.
No it's not, it's a Heidts Mustang ll front end with double Arms. I like to make it look factory as possible too. 😀
Can't use factory mounts with hiedts either
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 Thanks and you really show people a great work standard . Great channel for learning new ways to do things.
Rips the engine mount off 🤣😱😆🤣😆🤣😆🤣😆🤣🤣😝
Full Hulk mode😂🤣
And with no CGI😉
New subscriber here ... I find this particular project fascinating. Cannot believe the owner trusted the "$1500 shop" to touch his beautiful build.
You don't know what you don't know..... he knows now but it's a harsh lesson for the first timer.
Thanks for joining!
It would have been an excellent Mr Bean episode
Wow, talk about pucker factor. The old saying comes to mind, If you like sausage, don't watch it being made. Well done!
Thank uncle Tony for coming here
Agreed , subbed for that very reason and not disappointed in the least .
Kiwi, I have a '65 Mustang GT with that same front end. I did it over 20 yrs. ago. It causes oilpan issues that were easily solved by using a foxbody 5.0 oilpan. Many years ago in college a friend had a '67 GT 390. There was a lot of bashing done at the factory to get that engine in. The floor shifter came up in the same hole as the small block. On my '65 I used a T5 transmission and the shifter also fit the original hole with a little modification. There may be a rear sump oilpan available for the 427 FE, I don't know. Back in 1969 we used a Shelby oilpan on the 390 that added 2 quarts. I really enjoy your work. It's clean, neat and well thought out. This Mustang will really benefit from your touch. Loved the sawsall scene! Ford should have done that! See you in the next one, Dave
Glad your enjoying it!
Wow! I appreciate your patience in trying to fix someone else's big problem that they made with this great car !!! I understand the rack and pinion being in the way among other things. Yea, we've had 390s in 67-68 Mustangs and the 68 428 Cobra Jets but you have great skill in trying to fix and cut this high end restomod car! I love your channel and has great content that I learn a lot from all types of cars coming in your shop 👍🏁
Thanks, glad your enjoying it!
Love your Videos man! Not much room in a Ford!!!
I've yet to come across a problem that judicious use of a sawzall couldn't fix 🤣
Lol some truth to that
Kiwi master car builder😈🤘🏽
Cheers mate
Hi there ,Thanks for coming back to me about my comment below , I fully agree that the lower arm and the outer track rod should be paralell to the road surface which Is why Ive always preferd the Holden type front end design over the Ford although Farmers loved the Falcon for its high ground clearance over the Holden and before that the Vangaurd with their cross members acting as Dozer blades in paddock work. I started with a company in 1983 that specialised in the restoration of historic racing cars from sedans to open wheelers after a few years I went out on my own doing similar but not the same work and here I am , its 2022 and Im still at it .As you say there is a bit of lee-way as far as placement goes in some instances.Good luck with it. How did the factory get the big block in,did it have a different fire wall pressing ? John Keane .Aus.
The factory set up was a rear steer set up with a steering box so the oil pan was set up to the front. This car has a front mounted steering rack and that's what makes it difficult. The oil pump wants be in the same spot as the rack If it had a Chevy rear distributor/ oil pump set up she'd be done and gone by now😁
I see the plan now. Looks like you will be welding in a new metal firewall. Good job!
Yeah it'll be a bit noisy if we leave it like that🤣
Instead of modifying crossmember I would mod the pan. That second front sump is odd since the pickup cant access the oil. If you cut it off and add to the back sump, the eingine can be moved back easily. without messing with crossmember/steering. It would also allow for moving the rack later to correct any potential bump steer issues etc due to rack placement
The oil pump is in the front bowl of the pan but picks up oil from the rear bowl via a long pick up tube. So the front has to stay. It's a Ford thing as the distributor is at the front of the engine and the oil pump runs off that
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 I see... That explains it. Not the simplest setup for sure.
I was wondering how in the F you were going to shoehorn that baby in there...but it's apparent that you.ve either done this before...or (as we used to tell the customers in my trade) I studied the book all night last night LOL Great job sir, you rock!
Couple of times now. 😁
Oh how we complicate our lives when adding all these aftermarket major components, each on it’s own might fit, leaving the sketchy engineering out of it for the moment, but when you start adding multiples, the complications go exponential. Modification has always been the essence of rodding, but historically, it’s what ever the owner was capable of doing himself, rather than the owner drawing up a wish list and dropping the car off at the local shop.
The award for noisiest engine hoist EVER is......KIWI!
Lol. Yea she's complaining with that big block
Not gonna lie. Watching you cut the firewall out gave me the heebie jeebies.
But I get it. Customer wants what he wants.
He just wants something that works and that's exactly what he going to get
As a resto mod being reworked by this gentleman, I'd say it's not a detractor . In the garage at home , absolutely not a good idea for most guys .
It appears she'll buff out OK, but every time I look at the oil pan configuration on that engine, I think of another question. It would be interesting to know what's going on inside. Oh yeah, when I was a wee lad, after watching the TV test pattern until Saturday morning cartoons started, "Black Beauty" came on after "The Lone Ranger" and "Sky King". We could receive two TV stations and they were both black and white. Life was good.
Great content! I love how you explain everything.
Glad you enjoy it!
Groovy
To look at the monster mess of monkey business handed to you from the other hack shop (understatement), and what you have already figured out and started to accomplish restores my faith that there still exist REAL smart men, who create with their hands and heads, genuine, classic, functional works of art! These shows document your work and inspire countless others to set the bar higher! On top of this, you are seemingly humble, but your can do attitude from ripping out a motor mount with your bare hands to the beautiful finished products you do, shows exceptional ability and intense determination. The people who bring their cars to you are lucky indeed and do not need to ever question what their paying for!
wow, thanks man!!
Good stuff bro.
Glad you enjoyed
What about a 4x4 oil pan from a early 70s pick truck that had a 360, , 390 FE series they were mid/ rear sump pans..... that might work for some one who didnt want to do fab work on thier fire wall...i understand.the delema here with the after market front suspension.....but for some one who wanted.to add rack and.pinion...maby??
That 4x4 pan is what the Canton one that's on the engine is based on. You have the same issues with height and room for the radiator. Then add in a serpentine front drive, electric fans and an A/C condenser and it's more crowded than Times Square on on New Years eve
The FEs were very tight in mid size cars, thats why the 390GT/427/428 Had special exhaust manifolds, the wildest being the 66-67 427 Fairlane and 68 Cougar GTE.
At first I''m like HTF is that going to fit and a few minutes later I'm like "yea" that will work.
Been waiting for this video all week! :D
Hope you enjoyed it!
Your alright for a Kiwi man love your work Nick from Oz
It’s amazing how most people get taken on vehicles imo , Chris the Car Surgen👍
sad but true
id hate to come across as an AHOLE but why not put in a decent Clevo or even better for space a high revvin windsor ,theres like bugger all space with that ol motor in that engine bay ,just my humble opinion,so glad i found this channel its bloody grouse ,i been tellin all the lads at work ,beaters are pretty keen to take a gander but the painters are not real fussed ,funny bunch up in the paintshop far too many fumes ,keep up the tiptop content Kiwi
He wants a big block, I get it, they have a certain wow factor when you lift the hood. I own a 66 with a 557 in it. I know a big inch windsor would have made a better handling car but the heart wants what heart the wants. Google KSV9000 if you want to see it
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 OUTSTANDING Kiwi,i just watched the youtube with you and i instantly recognised the man who painted the KSV9000, of course he was on Dereks channel helping him out ,only the worlds best painter a true artist ,just amazing mate 10/10
No worries, professional at work. Done.
Thanks!
The land of no low volume certificates no engineering reports a free kiwi😉
Yea indeed!!!
I understand what the customer wants here. I need to state the obvious here...there are so many better options than that FE. The price he could sell it for would probably finance the installation of a Windsor/Cleveland/boss. Heck the new 7.3 Godzilla or coyote...I know he is probably going for that old school feel. Sometimes you just give people what they want and not what they need.
7:24 that's not an ASE certified firewall cutter with Ford stamp of certification nor is this an authorized approach to doing this procedure according to those who authorize certification! What this means is best case if the placement works out which is questionable regardless what is done the windows will always roll themselves down and the back bumper will continually open the trunk unless a dyna diamond pack 13-13-90 is added to the fuel introduction and distributing module under the left rear tire! Even then the motor must be completely warmed up similar to the motor break in while the car itself remains ice cold!
I like the threaded back to front adjustment on that cherry picker. Will you have to put the radiator in the trunk or maybe move the grill framing forward?
With the engine going back there will be plenty of room for the radiator
Nice work with this video Kiwi, will follow the progress!
Awesome, thank you!
You cant move the rack ! its got to go where it has to go ,And that is in plan view it must be straight across the car ,Also in horizontal view it must be straight at ride height ,modify something else or go back to a stock system ,Other wise you will have a Pig of a handling car .John Keane .Aus.
Actually you can! In this Heidts front suspension set up the rack is moved back about 40mm to help squeeze it into the notch in the oil pan. The impact from that is negligible when talking about a road/production car. Keep in mind that we're not trying to build a Formuls One here. In the horizontal view the rack does not want to be straight, it needs to be at a height that places the steering arms as close to parallel to the lower control arms. If your control arms droop down like 99.9% of production cars then your steering arms need to do the same or the resulting bump steer will be detrimental.
Positive effect on Handling/weight distribution? Guessing
Yes!! Moving the engine back an inch is like moving your battery to the back of the trunk. So better traction and better turn in to the corners
Bonus, since it seemed that engine had to back up no matter what
I'm just curious. Has anyone verified that it is, in fact, a 427?? Every 427 I've ever seen turned out to be a 428 or 390. They really are quite rare.
Actually no. I'm just shoe horning it in😁
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 lols
Probably a 427 marine engine. Buyer beware.
It has been confirmed from the numbers that it's a 64 427 top oiler with cross bot mains. Automotive not marine
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 That's good. The owner doesn't need anymore BS with the build. THX.
Kiwi is really really strong! Or the welds on that mount were really really crappy.
LoL. Yeah they grow us Kiwi's pretty strong but that was some seriously crappy welding
I know it's heresy but an electric motor would solve the space issue and probably smoke that 427. Now to be flamed in the comments.
Lol. It would be quicker and it would solve the engine bay space issues. But what about the weight of the batteries and where to put them. Teslas and such are heavy due to the batteries. To the point of needing different tires to cope with weight if want any kind of range. For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction.
Instead of moving steering rack im surprised you couldn’t just find a different oil pan. But i know nothing about this stuff
I am a bit of an amateur at welding but even my first ever tack welds when learning in class were much better than that chewing gum and bird poop they tacked those mounts on with.
Looks awesome, almost a mid engine car!
Almost!
Would converting to dry sump help?
Yes it would but that's a lot of money and fabrication....
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 that’s what we are here for!! Ha!!
Ford engine swaps are allways a PITA
I'm looking at the steering shaft coming out of the rack and wondering how bad the header fitment will be.
Bit early to say yet but theres a good chance a couple of primarys will need tweaking
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 That's my thought too.
Bloody hell, my teeth are harder to pull out than that engine mount.
How do you quote the jobs you do? Seems like a crap shoot unless they give you a blank check.
I only give estimates and make it very clear that there's more chance it'll go up than down
Some don't like that but the alternative is putting a very high price on to cover your your ass or a price you think you can do it for. Then if it blows out the temptation is to cut corners to make the job fit the quote. Not going to either of those.
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 thank you for the response. Certainly can't go to all data for what you do lol
with the extra setback hows the shifter placement?
Actually pretty good. It was too far forward before and almost touch the dash In 1-3-5 gears
Nice work Kiwi what blades did you have in your saw? They sure let you maneuver around nicely.
Just regular sawzall blades that cut down so they're about half as wide. They turn much easier that way.
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 So you cut them down yourself or are they sold that way?
Based on what I read in Smokey Yumick's book, the big block Mustang was bad deal. The amount of weight so far forward in the chassis made it a bad handling package. This isn't to say the mods on this example won't work. It's just a challenge. A built, modern, small block seems like a better choice. The issue I see with moving the rack is the probability of increasing bump steer. You may want to rethink that choice...jus' saying.
The height of the rack is more critical than its forward/ back location. The rack is squeezed back on its original mounts to help it fit into the notch in the pan. I'll just be stretching it forward a similar amount
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 I see. Thank you for the clarification.
I hope you don't go through all the work getting the engine in only to find out it's bad.
Aww don't say that .....
Will moving the rack forward mess up anything, like create bump-steer or something like that?
When you get that car done, you need to drive it over to the last shop which worked on it, and be like "look, I fixed it for you..."
And not to be 'that guy,' but I'd like to see/hear you invest in a remote mic, since it can be difficult to hear you when you are farther from the camera.
No, the rack is squeezed back in stock form to help it fit in the notch in the pan. We're just going to stretch it forward a similar amount and the notch the crossmember to make room. The height of the rack is much more important the forward/back orientation. Of course you can't go crazy with it
Was that a Mustang II rack?
What is the purpose of the front section of the oil pan? Everything I've found on 427 Oil pans shows the deep part of the pan (and I assume the pickup) is in the back of the pan. I don't see many pans with much of any depth in the front section of the pan.
The oil pump is at the front on Fords, small and big block driven off the distributor. Are you thinking of the 427 Chev?
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 The pump is at the front but, the pickup extends to the rear.
Yes depending on if it's a front sump or rear sump set up.
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 You're correct. I forgot that certain Ford, and I believe Mopar products use a front sump.
I would certainly hope the sump was in the way back... the bearings might like oil now and again.
How does moving the rack forward affect the steering, numb steer etc.?
If you go too far it will impact the bump steer negatively. The rack is squeezed back on these set ups to fit in the notch in the pan so bringing it forward straightens it out
Wouldn't it be easier to just take the guys 1500 bucks and ship him to the next shop.
Lol, well yes but I just couldn't do that
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 Tell the truth. You just cant resist the challenge to save one more.
Right , they screwed that guy hard
MUSCLE CAR MASTER KIWI ....
BETTER 😆???
Now us talking!!😁😂
Could probably just flop that mount
Spoke prematurely
Why would you NOT start by removing the hydraulic hard lines off the rack? 1 1- 1/2 inch of space??? Dropping a 390 in with the STOCK suspension was simple IF you had the right heads with the horizontal exhaust bolt pattern & manifolds or headers. You SURE that isn't a 406 CID block... You didn't state the block casting code. At 1:37 the block DOES NOT display the side oiler passages to the mains above the cross bolts ---- top oiler most likely from a MARINE application. AND it appears to have PRESS IN freeze plugs vs 427 screw in brass plugs... First 427 cross bolts were all top oilers even the first 427 Cobras BUT the motor mount holes make me believe early 406 OR marine.. not a side oiler. Which are almost useless anyways. How many places can you run an engine for an hour + at over 6,500 rpm???? BTW I do have a 427 TOP OILER in my garage. Too bad I can't post a photo here. It does have the 4 engine mount holes & screw in freeze plugs so your block must be really early. and again that it may be a 406.
From what I could discern it looked like the head casting is a C1AE-A early 1960s but they are 352 & 390 -- 406 are a C2SE with the 6V intake.
THAT oil pan is NOT a Ford FE pan but a ?? Canton?? REAR SUMP bastard pan to clear a totally different steering system. FORD front sump system was designed for steering linkage BEHIND the cross member Had they even used the Ford FE 4X4 rear sump pan it may have cleared the TOTALLY DIFFERENT front added sub frame and rack. That front hard line loop in the centre of the rack is taking a lot of usable room away from engine location.Why didn't you consider just cutting out the cross member and MOVING it back 2 inches? Rack ends should have still worked with the steering arms. Seems MUCH easier than butchering the firewall. OR extending the rack mounts forward and down????
Wow that's a lot. Pretty sure I never said it was a side oiler. I'm just putting the "427" the customer asked me to install. I stated in the video that I intend to cut the cross member and that is why the firewall needs"butchering" as you say. The canton pan is designed for the FE and a front rack set up. Simply removing the hydraulic lines is NOT going to give enough room and to suggest a manual rack would be just silly.
Also won't be going down with the rack, just forward, didn't say that
@@kiwiclassicsandcustoms9160 The side oiler was mentioned in prior video but I question even if its a 427 block with push in freeze plugs and the lack of mounting holes. Cyl head cast numbers are wrong as I stated. Notching the cross member helps but moving the whole cross member back seems a lot easier considering the steering is not finished. I never stated to replace the rack but that new flexible or even other hard lines could be created giving you additional working room. Still wonder who made that sub frame and if they intended Chevy power? Chevy to Ford trans Lakewood bell would have been a drop in.
" moving the whole crossmember seems a lot easier ". Seriously??? Are you winding me up?
Love your Videos man! Not much room in a Ford!!!
Thanks man