My Theory On The State Of Wayland
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Wayland is a project in very long development and whilst things are absolutely being worked on there's still a lot of problems left to resolve but I have a theory for why many of these things were not originally considered problems
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Another really dumb issue is the whole "crashing your compositor kills your session" thing. The KDE People basically solved this, and I love them for it (their Wayland apps just reconnect after the compositor restarts), but I don't know of any other compositor that implements this by default.
I recently started work on getting this working in Sway/Hyprland, and it was a surprisingly tiny patch! (less than 10/15 lines in the compositor, less than 500 lines in the launcher/restarter)
Props to David Edmundson for figuring out this way of adding robustness to Wayland.
If anybody is interested in this, I have the code on my GitHub; I'm not linking this here since a) links don't work on YT anyway and b) I don't want to needlessly self-promote
Good job. Enough patches like that and I hopefully won't notice I'm on Wayland
@@noname-ll2vk Hyprland just merged the patch :)
Wayland still has a ways to go, but little by little, things are getting better.
@@TheFerdi265 guys like you help make my free desktop future better. Thanks. Sway is my first Wayland so far.
As somebody that rejected Wayland for a while because of the bugs, I can tell you, it is ready now. 555 Drivers and a Steam update and it is smooth sailing for me. X11 has unfixable issues with multiple monitors, which Many people use these days. I have zero bugs with Wayland
Is there any problems when swapping things in desktop, im new and had some weird issues in past that where changing my freshrate of screen when jumping from a game to app on second screen etc. I'm new and stupid to Fix those problems every now and then
Right now it's choose your poison. The new, less buggy option doesn't have all the features.
@@dv_xl 💯 your right, It did take me some time to come to terms with not being able to use digital vibrance in Wayland. For me, that's the only thing I've noticed missing
the problem here is no body bothered to watch the video.
wayland works well for those whose particular spike has been addressed, and is crap for a lot of other people.
the problem with that, is that its like moving from windows, you end up stuck because of a few things which never get addressed.
@@grokitall I think the best course of action for the Linux community, is to start using Wayland, and avoid apps that don't support it properly. X11 will never be acceptable for those with multiple monitors, it's not capable of rendering a good experience properly. X11 is phenomenal for a single monitor, there is no harm in switching back and forth it's just on the login screen
Xorg had features and the baby was tossed with the water. What is important is to make sure "NOW" for the thing after Wayland, they don't toss the baby again then work to get that first baby back. The Vulkan API tried their best at this, I don't see a case where they ever switch from Vulkan to something else... because new versions of Vulkan can be that something else.
Raiguard isnt wrong, Im in the brand new to linux because of microsoft co-pilot crowd and Im loving it!!! Never going back!!! Started on Debian, 2 weeks late jumped ship to Arch btw, and 2 weeks later Im on Hyprland I couldnt possibly love it more!!! Linux has come a long way the last few yrs!
This is more of personal experience, but nowadays, I work as a Web Developer for a company and have been using my personal laptop to work. Haven't touched Windows or Mac since at least 6 years, and I have to say that the "for the developer, Wayland doesn't get in the way" resonated a lot with me. I remember that back then I used to distrohop a lot a find "the perfect distro" for when it came to gaming performance and other small details. Now? I just play on my Steam Deck and Switch, no worries about what distro I'm using, which protocol, etc. Just using Bluefin and handing maintenance to the developers and the images they provide.
06:12 x11 text is not antialiased, only bitmap fonts
A good lua lang server would be so nice
Wayland is not there yet, I don't GAF what the linbro's try and claim. It's come a long way and I actually need it to get there but it's NOT there yet. Yes SOME folks with specific HW configs might be experiencing smooth sailing but it's not all round mature. It's close but no cigar.
Whats not there specifically?
it's not just specific HW configs but HW, Software and use case requirements.
I agree on Anime!
i'm getting really fed up with developers moving to build on top of stuff which is barely dev complete (it works on my machine).
they did it with many major subsystems, and now they are doing it with wayland. this would not be too bad, but they do it with multiple subsystems at once, leaving you having to search for a distro which has not screwed up your work flows by shipping preproduction code as a default. even worse when there is no way to fall back to what used to work.
XOrg is barely possible to support, a lot of developers work for free. One can support XOrg instead of blaming people for optimising work they fo for free.
@@sergeykish i am not criticising the work they do fro free, but the attitude of "it work FOR ME, so why haven't you moved over yet" , which is far too prevalent. the answer is because it is not yet ready.
@@grokitall XOrg is unsupported. There is not enough resources, maintainers have to choose between unsupported and under development.
Wayland is ready for a lot of users.
@@sergeykish not criticising that they can't fix everything at once, only the belief amongst some developers that if it works for them, it should be no issue for anyone else, and the choice in distributions to jump ship too early.
i have no issue with xorg being in maintainence only mode, done by the distributions who have not yet moved.
@@grokitall XOrg is unsupported, users don't care enough to support. Why users blame distributions? They should blame themselves.
If all this is still not ready, how about not making it a default on mainstream distributions yet? I don't know, just saying! The developers can fuck around for another decade on their alpha tier branch all they want!
I woudn't call Fedora mainstream, and it was really the only one doing it by default when it was still very rough. And even then, if you had an Nvidia card it would use X11 by default, I remember that from years ago at least. These days I do pretty much everything, screen sharing, gaming, and DEs and applications are shipping with features that only work on/because of wayland, and with the Nvidia problems beeing sorted out its the right time to do it.
Acessibility beeing the biggest and most thing that it still lacks, but also the one the affects the less people.
@@jonnyso1 dunno, having huion tablet drivers on arch on wayland is impossible, works reaaaal flaky, worked only on one screen, weird aspect ratio. Feel like most of mainstream issues that was bumped into by people- got fixed
nieche stuff- not yet
@@jonnyso1 well, as stated here it's also a problem when you want/need non-Latin input
But what is Ready? It's always a relative word. Apparently it's considered ready enough.
Do not underestimate the issues with Xorg, it's no longer developed (no one wants to work on it) and considered really insecure. And security is a big concern in this world. So the priority to move away from it is also high.
Personally, I believe it's needed for Wayland to go mainstream, because in that way more people are going to use it and give feedback, so that issues can be resolved more quickly. Holding it back forever does not help the project.
@@jongeduard ready is at the point when if you have an issue, there is a way to solve it. But here, its a driver that sees two screens as one, but maps it to one. Trying to map one screen results in half mapping, guessing something with relative coordinates went haywire, and there is no way on way to map this specific driver's output to different coordinate stream, that i'd count as not ready for now, when user cannot use stuff or at least see a way to resolve the error.
7:00 that is fucking wild