Why add bottled bacteria when you can boost current levels with carbon dosing? Maybe my perspective is a bit biased, but I could think of a couple reasons. For one, as Keith points out, carbon dosing (especially when overdone) can lead to degraded water quality, not the least of which may be dangerously low DO. But the other problem is that it can potentially cause ANY heterotroph to proliferate, including less desirable genera such as Rickettsia or Vibrio. Bottled bacteria, on the other hand, allow the user to increase populations of a particular beneficial microbe for a specific purpose in a manner that is far more controlled. I get that this approach isn’t perfect, not by a long shot-it’s in its infancy, but I for one am pretty sure that we’re going to see a whole lot of innovation in this area.
Yup, this form of carbon dosing is caveman stuff..... At the very least, use a controlled carbon source like biopellets so the carbon is not just freely available to any bacteria everywhere in the tank. Adding bottle bacteria significantly boosts the levels of the bacteria you want and should outcompete the unwated strains when regularly dosed. In the example of the cavemen pouring vodca into the tank you are more likely going to cause unwanted bacteria to flourish rather than increasing the targeted species you want. It is like people recommending to you to dose kalk, same dinosaurs...
Some bacterial products sold today can be used for some of the non common situations, and yes, I do believe we could achieve some really good level of bacterial infection control in the future, besides the fact that we can start a system faster with some of the bacterial products available today. To dose bacteria in the regular basis just because is ridiculous, though. There is absolutely no dependency of any bacteria dosing system to any aquarium to achieve any type of stability and optimal management, specially utilizing a natural system.
@@DoYouEvenFishTank Sanjay in particular has always made a good point about having data to back up any potential benefits that come with regularly dosing bacteria to a reef tank. If you have any scientific studies to back up your claims then please share.
It’s worth considering the financial implications of bottled products dosing long term. If I were to follow Hydrospace’s recommendations for PNS ProBio, using their bottled product (because I’m not creating space in the basement to roll my own), it would cost me $2,700 per year before tax and shipping. That’s a lot of money. I could dose less, but beyond sales, what’s then the value of the dosing recommendation?
I generally agree with the old dudes, but I'm old, too. Blindly adding products like MB7 to increase diversity when MB7 has no diversity to add is silly. If I add anything at all, I'm adding products I've tested and know what's inside, and I'm adding the product for a reason.
Wow, amazed at the negative comments below about "moving on from the old school peeps". I've never seen Mike's tank, but I bet it's impressive, I've seen Sanjay's tank and is it nothing short of exceptional. The thing about these folks is that they know and understand what works LONG TERM. They understand the chemistry and biology of what is going on. I feel like I'm in the same camp, but I don't do near the level of experimentation that these guys do.
@@DoYouEvenFishTank And what is exactly the "bacteria you want"? Do you know the scientific name of the bacteria you want? For what? How can you assure any bottle has that "bacteria you want" if they don't tell you the name of the bacteria? What if you never add any bottled bacteria? Would you still have the "bacteria you want" anyways? LOL!
Are they adding vodka to control nitates ? Lower or increase ? I could probably do more research. Hope you don't mind 😊 I like these guys , I give a lot of weight to what they say & do 😊
they are adding the vodka as food for all the bacteria in the tank in the hope it promotes the growth of bacteria consuming nitrates more than it promotes the growth of nuisance bacteria. It is also why their stance on adding bottle bacteria shows how outdated their techniques really are and how little they understand about bacteria in general, let alone in a reef tank....
They used to dose vodka to induce the growth of bacteria to consume excess nitrates and phosphates and at the same time to be exported by the protein skimmer. Today some people add phosphaes and nitrates to the tanks. Tell me what's up with both ways? LOL! Non of that is absolutely needed if the system is well planned. Natural systems exist with the basic framework of bacterial filtration in the system without any intervention. Those interventions is what cause problems with the imbalanced bioload.
@@DoYouEvenFishTank Sanjay in particular has always made a good point about having data to back up any potential benefits that come with regularly dosing bacteria to a reef tank. If you have any scientific studies to back up your claims then please share.
Oh geez, I couldn't disagree more. They have a wealth of knowledge and are legends in the hobby and we are lucky to have them as resources. Yeah, they don't have the fancy RUclips channels and unfortunately many reef keepers gravitate to reefers on social media who are much better at entertaining versus educating.
@@ReefBum I don't doubt their experience and knowledge, Mike is trying to complicate something for the sale of complicating it. Sanjay is on the ball, his tank is amazing still, but yeah I think they're a bit too old school for me :D
Why add bottled bacteria when you can boost current levels with carbon dosing? Maybe my perspective is a bit biased, but I could think of a couple reasons. For one, as Keith points out, carbon dosing (especially when overdone) can lead to degraded water quality, not the least of which may be dangerously low DO. But the other problem is that it can potentially cause ANY heterotroph to proliferate, including less desirable genera such as Rickettsia or Vibrio. Bottled bacteria, on the other hand, allow the user to increase populations of a particular beneficial microbe for a specific purpose in a manner that is far more controlled. I get that this approach isn’t perfect, not by a long shot-it’s in its infancy, but I for one am pretty sure that we’re going to see a whole lot of innovation in this area.
Yup, this form of carbon dosing is caveman stuff..... At the very least, use a controlled carbon source like biopellets so the carbon is not just freely available to any bacteria everywhere in the tank. Adding bottle bacteria significantly boosts the levels of the bacteria you want and should outcompete the unwated strains when regularly dosed. In the example of the cavemen pouring vodca into the tank you are more likely going to cause unwanted bacteria to flourish rather than increasing the targeted species you want. It is like people recommending to you to dose kalk, same dinosaurs...
Some bacterial products sold today can be used for some of the non common situations, and yes, I do believe we could achieve some really good level of bacterial infection control in the future, besides the fact that we can start a system faster with some of the bacterial products available today. To dose bacteria in the regular basis just because is ridiculous, though. There is absolutely no dependency of any bacteria dosing system to any aquarium to achieve any type of stability and optimal management, specially utilizing a natural system.
@@DoYouEvenFishTank Sanjay in particular has always made a good point about having data to back up any potential benefits that come with regularly dosing bacteria to a reef tank. If you have any scientific studies to back up your claims then please share.
It’s worth considering the financial implications of bottled products dosing long term. If I were to follow Hydrospace’s recommendations for PNS ProBio, using their bottled product (because I’m not creating space in the basement to roll my own), it would cost me $2,700 per year before tax and shipping. That’s a lot of money. I could dose less, but beyond sales, what’s then the value of the dosing recommendation?
I generally agree with the old dudes, but I'm old, too. Blindly adding products like MB7 to increase diversity when MB7 has no diversity to add is silly. If I add anything at all, I'm adding products I've tested and know what's inside, and I'm adding the product for a reason.
Wow, amazed at the negative comments below about "moving on from the old school peeps". I've never seen Mike's tank, but I bet it's impressive, I've seen Sanjay's tank and is it nothing short of exceptional. The thing about these folks is that they know and understand what works LONG TERM. They understand the chemistry and biology of what is going on. I feel like I'm in the same camp, but I don't do near the level of experimentation that these guys do.
To quote Bill Maher: It’s not that I’ve gotten old. It’s that your ideas are stupid
@reefbum how can I get a sticker?
Two old men yell at clouds
The question is if bacteria needs to be replenished.
And for what exactly!?
it is about ensuring the bacteria colonies you have are mostly the bacteria you want, adding bacteria you want regularily helps to ensure this
@@DoYouEvenFishTank And what is exactly the "bacteria you want"? Do you know the scientific name of the bacteria you want? For what? How can you assure any bottle has that "bacteria you want" if they don't tell you the name of the bacteria? What if you never add any bottled bacteria? Would you still have the "bacteria you want" anyways? LOL!
Are they adding vodka to control nitates ? Lower or increase ? I could probably do more research. Hope you don't mind 😊 I like these guys , I give a lot of weight to what they say & do 😊
they are adding the vodka as food for all the bacteria in the tank in the hope it promotes the growth of bacteria consuming nitrates more than it promotes the growth of nuisance bacteria. It is also why their stance on adding bottle bacteria shows how outdated their techniques really are and how little they understand about bacteria in general, let alone in a reef tank....
They used to dose vodka to induce the growth of bacteria to consume excess nitrates and phosphates and at the same time to be exported by the protein skimmer. Today some people add phosphaes and nitrates to the tanks. Tell me what's up with both ways? LOL! Non of that is absolutely needed if the system is well planned. Natural systems exist with the basic framework of bacterial filtration in the system without any intervention. Those interventions is what cause problems with the imbalanced bioload.
@@DoYouEvenFishTank Sanjay in particular has always made a good point about having data to back up any potential benefits that come with regularly dosing bacteria to a reef tank. If you have any scientific studies to back up your claims then please share.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I wish I was neighbors with Michael
Think the world has moved on from Sanjay and Mike a little bit, Theyre tanks aren't really that special any more :(
And why is that?
@@rogergampel7022 they are dosing voda for carbon source, says it all .....
No, it's the opposite!!! The world moved on from nice tanks and they went with it! LOL!
Oh geez, I couldn't disagree more. They have a wealth of knowledge and are legends in the hobby and we are lucky to have them as resources. Yeah, they don't have the fancy RUclips channels and unfortunately many reef keepers gravitate to reefers on social media who are much better at entertaining versus educating.
@@ReefBum I don't doubt their experience and knowledge, Mike is trying to complicate something for the sale of complicating it.
Sanjay is on the ball, his tank is amazing still, but yeah I think they're a bit too old school for me :D