THE BAR AC IS COOLING INSTEAD OF HEATING
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- Опубликовано: 13 янв 2024
- This was a no heat on a bar ac but it was an interesting one because instead of heating it was cooling the bar.
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That "I trust the client wasn't in there" is the nicest and most professional way to outline someone's level of technical apitude that I've ever heard. Haha
Those customers are better than the ones who think they know what they are doing but completely f up equipment instead 😂 and o boy Chris has had a few.
Its also possible this location simply doesnt have the ability to adjust any settings, everything may be controlled remote via a energy management company
@@curioushvacguy6876wouldn't that make it much more likely that someone (accidentally) messed with the settings?
Thermostats are computers, and as a IT professional I can say with certainity that computers are sometimes just cursed and do weird things.
Up here in Western Canada the nighttime temps are dropping below -30C(-22F), and some places with windchill down to -50C(-58F). I'd love overnight temps of 0C(32F) right now. LOL
I was thrown by the "Honeywell Home" thermostat, but it's all about name recognition. Just like in data center land, Liebert was bought by Emerson, and Emerson Network Power is now Vertiv. I didn't know that last part, and it gets confusing when you start stacking brand names.
Thank you for the Lennox lessons today.....also the programming of the t-stat was wonderful....thanks friend!
Good work Chris. All those leaves on the roof would drive me crazy if it were my roof. But based on some of the crawl spaces you show some leaves are the least of their problems.
When checking/adjusting gas pressure, I have found that putting the cap back on can change the setting. That's why I make it a practice to cover the adjustment port with a finger or thumb during the process.
The company I work for is a lennox dealer and yes those thermostats are not good. They do funky stuff, our company has been replacing any we installed for free that we run into issues with. Replace with a vision pro 8000 and be done
Man, We didn't get to hear you talk to yourself during the programming of the thermostat, Damn, Talk to your buddy Rick about a combustion analyzer, he's got a nice one, An Inficon, it looks pretty sweet, or try an Fieldpiece those two seem the best bet, nothing wrong with Testo, but those other meters seem a better quality. Good job Chris.
I have no specific information about these controller circuits, but those sorts of low-level logic circuits are always prone to occasional state changes like the one you see. Electrostatic discharge is one good way this can happen, for instance. Computers have to deal with this all the time, they have what is called "error correction" that can detect bit flips like this one and fix them.
So the flex CSST line in 1/2" is rated for 106KBTUs and the 3/4" is rated for 290KBTU. That would be more than enough for that size unit. Also the Testo unit is a great unit. I have the 320, but its no longer made. The 300 Pro would be the way to go. You can save some cash if you don't get the kit with printer, but its not that much more. The thermal paper would be ruined pretty quick there with the heat so, you really don't need a printer unless you keep that in your records. 🤠👍
I don't understand why heat pump needs gas burners to heat the building.
If it has burners, it most likely has no reversing valves or check valves included.
I was so confused by the Honeywell "Home". Nice explanation! 18:55
Nice work and video Chris. Thank you for the knowledge as always.
We have the Testo combustion analysis kit, but I've never used it, so I can't really tell you how good it is. I would say you can't go wrong with Testo or fieldpiece.
Testo is good I think
Enjoy watching your channel. Smart man.
I love Testo and Seitron combustion analyzer, they are both great
Thanks for another helpful and informative video, Chris. If no one it touching that thermostat then the issues suggest the internal memory has problems with 'bit rot' where, because of the way such memory works, the memory cells change state over time. Often, re-writing the cells will restore normal operation at least for a while. It suggests either very poor quality or very old electronics in that thermostat or poor manufacturing quality control.
The thermostat problem reminds me of years ago with memory cards for a digital camera, some of which just became corrupted over time. Fortunately, they were fairly straightforward for me to recover. This is the main reason why I never leave any data on a Flash Drive (thumb drive) or Memory Card that I don't have a safe and secure copy somewhere else.
I know you use USB Flash Drives for firmware updates on machines. One of the best things you can do is learn how to refresh, backup and ideally take a Disk Image of flash memory storage media. Even manufacturer-supplied drives can go bad, and having the skills I just mentioned could save you from, worst case, a bad firmware update that trashes the machine in some way because the controller didn't recognise the firmware was actually bad or simply not being able to apply a needed update to get a machine working in a particular situation. On a more personal level, it could help you recover videos and photos from your own phone(s) and camera(s).
As a resi tech I’m not sure of what the challenges are for combustion analysis for commercial. But the Bacharach Insight Plus has been my go to. With field replaceable O2 and CO sensors it keeps your down time low. I do recommend the NCI combustion training for application though. They touched on commercial when I took it but it definitely wasn’t focused on. I remember Jim Davis did talk about CO build up on roofs that are fully surrounded. So that could lead to poor combustion air and for restaurants, poor MUA.
Southern California where you can fix the heater by just turning off the air conditioner compressor. I was watching the video at 8:am and 8 degrees F. After I got up I turned on the Mits split unit heat pump on and am heating my house back up 10F out side.
Combustion analyzer isn’t really going to do much for you on your standard package unit. Derate system for altitude (orifices and pressure switches), adjust gas pressure to manufacturer spec, check temp rise and airflows, make minor adjustments. Save the Combustion analysis for High efficiency equipment that requires it.
Great video. We met at AHR in Atlanta last year.good luck with this year.
You just wanted to change the stat lol love your work and all the videos
It's so cold in alberta Canada right now that the power grid can't keep up and other provinces are sending power to try to keep up with the demand
Apples to oranges but I've had Turbochefs change deep internal settings due to "dirty" electricity. From a couple of your videos, you definitely have some of that from your 208V running 198V.
Great info. as always. Thank you Chris.
Chris, on those lennox economizers the wire leading to the enthapy sensor that has the corrosion on it is always the + wire and truthfully you can just snip off the corrosion part and snip the wire on the other side of the quick connect and run that wire through the already factory predrilled hole that will be next to the quick connect plug. Wire it up and that enthalpy sensor will work but I personally like using the oda sensor that's hooked up in the condenser because I'm able to use the magical temp number of 50 degrees to start ecomizing. Even if it's pouring down raining with 100% humidity in the air the 50 degree air is the perfect point for ecomization. You have to made a few letter settings under id number one and change the second letter to a t
Wow 1.6 inches of water column seems low in my area they usually run 3.5 on first stage for natural gas. Interesting to see this unit be that low.
Excellent video, fascinating, thank you.
vision pro 8000 is my thermostat of choice. Testo 300 is the combustion analyzer i used. Good video Chris.
In the Netherlands we use EuroIndex gas analyzers.
Steve lav loves the testo combustion analyzer
Great way to start my morning!
Make sure you program that honey well for 2 stages of heat!
We are only running one stage because of the undersized gas line for the time being
I just reprogrammed a stat like that to know that it has electric backup just yesterday. Not sure it really needed to be replaced but I'm also pretty sure its made for residential use not commercial so its fair to put on a commercial stat.
When commissioning a system I don’t set it exact to 1.6/3.5. The data tags will have a low fire/ high fire temp rise setting. I always adjust my GP based off my temp rise. If the temp rise says 15-45° of a rise I shoot for generally 25° rise. Try to keep it on the low end so it’ll slowly Evenly heat everything in the space so there’s no hot spots or cold spots throughout the space.
I LOVE my tpi dc710. Blutooth and connects to phone with pretty good range. They make a manometer that can connect wirelessly to it so you can read and set pressures at same time. Has a water trap incase you are working on condensing stuff. Battery lasts quite a while. When you get the numbers you can generate a report which grabs the gps location and lets you add a job number and title to each report generated. Also has a temp probe built into it, one that measures exhaust temp and one that measures ambient temp. The app also does gas size calculating and stuff if ur into that
Have a great fun time at the trade shows!
Testo makes a fairly descent system. The probes are pretty sturdy and of course steve lavamonier endorses them fully as the "most reliable" so...also im sure fieldpeice makes one as well.
Fieldpiece combustion analyzers is a beast
9:58 - I purchased the Sauermann Si CA 130 through Truetech Tools specifically for gas pack RTUs. I chose the CA 130 model over the CA 030 only because of the field replaceable sensor (even though they are rated for five years). Other than not having to send the unit back to the factory for calibration (as is the case with the CA 030) and the touch screen interface, both have similar functionality and both work with MeasureQuick. I was able to catch a faulty heat exchanger with this analyzer even before removing the panels (the tubing did have rust holes in the bottom of the bends and needs to be replaced). With the optional thermal printer I was able to document the analysis straight from the analyzer. I highly recommend this device for you. It is quite easy to use and understand even outside of MeasureQuick.
I use Sica 130 too,no issues works good for rooftops and residential
Where are you probing the flue at. Are you extending it with a piece of small duct. Or are you just inserting into the flue
The Testo is definitely the best combustion analyzer, but also the most expensive. I have a UEI, which gets the job done, but I'd prefer the Testo if I had the spare cash.
If your only running on 1st stage Heating, Does that still mean the flex pipe is under sized?? As you would never be using the full flow of gas??
For heating CPH, I set it at 3 to give longer run time for better comfort then short 6 cycles.
Awesome video and job 🙌😊👍🍀👌
I have 2 combustion analyzers. Both are Testo a 320 and 310, both have printers. I know you prefer FP and thats cool.....but Testo, Bacharach bith make great analyzers and are solid. Just my 2 cents. Metric works on standard....standard doesn't work on metric...lol
Yep, I also currently have the 320, and am very happy with it. Really, the carrying case is the only thing I don't like about it, as getting the probe and analyzer in there is kinda like Tetris.
That issue with the thermostat may be caused by power fluctuations combined with poor design. This is especially true if you have configuration corruptions across multiple installations.
We just had -50c Temps here in Canada with windchill think I saw as low as -61c in alberta
Great stuff Chris. Had a remote stay temp readout for an EMS controlled customer that the temp readout would go up when the temp would go down inside the store. Checked zone sensor in the store and the ohm/temp reading was in line. It was very weird.
Somebody could have put the wrong thermistor in it. There is a difference between PTC and NTC. Mainly which direction the resistance goes. PTC is positive temperature coefficient and NTC is negative. NTC the resistance goes down as the temp goes up.
I work in IT and deal with embedded devices and there are all sorts of things that can cause a device to screw up its own settings. Often a power glitch can have it running on an out of spec voltage for just a few seconds and it corrupts part of the saved settings.
Don't forget the bit rot
Could fluctuating power levels cause this over time? I know in Chris's area they have a dirty power grid, inconsistent power
@@curioushvacguy6876 could be - depending on how it saves its settings. It could have one bit flip and see that there is a checksum error and just load defaults at that point.
Personally, I am quite happy with the Testo 320, it reacts pretty quick, battery life is ok, has a lot of additional functions (co detector, gas pressure meter, concentric flue testing, etc...) and you can get it with a printer, so you can give the customer a protocoll and put another copy in the unit, or at least that is what we do in Germany. That way the next tech can compare and see whether there are any worrying changes. My only issue with it is the carrying case, which is well made but unfortunately a little crammed, so getting a fully equipped 320 with all accessories in there is more like HVAC Tetris.
I think steve leviniere uses that testo 320... seems to work good
I like my 320 as well. I’m not interested in anything with a touch screen.
@@89dhvac Same. Touch ist almost guaranteed to have scratches after one day of use and probably got smashed by the end of the week, costing $400 to replace... Also, you can't use it with gloves, which is a pain, 'cuz I don't want my hands to stink like fuel oil all day, so I wear gloves when working with the stuff, but then I couldn't operate the analyzer. Really glad that the 320 still has buttons, and i hope the next gen will also be available with real buttons, and not be all touch.
@@unmountablebootvolume I’m with you 100%. I was really disappointed to see the new testo 300 with a touch screen and ui similar to their wireless tools. The 320 is actually the only testo product that I really like, but I like it a lot! If something like the new 300 is the only option when my 320 needs replaced, I won’t be buying another testo.
@@89dhvac Couldn't agree more with you!
I would buy the the Testo 320 I have seen other you tubers use it seems to do good I’m like you I hardly work on gas units
Chris, I feel ya on the "random metric bolt when everything else is standard." Especially when working on my Jeep. 🤣 At least my Toyota is all metric, not a random blend of fasteners forcing me to make yet another trip to the toolbox!
Jeep has done some weird stuff over the years. Now to save weight you get reduced head size fasteners and mismatched head and thread fasteners.
16:30...That is an expansion joint to allow the condenser some flex space for expansion while hot,
I think I watched so many HVAC videos I wondered if it was the stat before I opened the video
For my work we have diesel coolant heaters on our busesfor the winter time the way I tune them is with the Smart Sensor AS8700A. That I bought myself, should make the company get a better one!
The highs here are single digit right now
I envy the slightly below freezing lows yall have lol
In regards of combustion, not really much point analysing as you will have to much excess air! Over in the UK we only analyse zero governors (premix/ condensing )
So cold last night in KC that Mahomes broke his helmet.
Go with the testo combustion analyzer, i have had my 320 since 2018 and it never fails me
Chris, I know California doesn't use heat a lot but do you check the heat exchanger for cracks and corrosion?
As a Honeywell Employee in Building Solutions for the comercial HVAC stuff. We are wondering as well when Resideo is going to stop with the name
Talk to pipe doctor he uses combustion analyzer on every job involving heat
I have a UEI Eagle 2X analyzer and a Bacharach (Fyrite insight plus I think). Both are good and accurate as far as I can tell. I have to send in UEI yearly, per their recommendation (to eliminate long term sensor drift, supposedly). Bacharach I'm not sure on since I just got it late last year. I do like that they have infrared printers so that i can print off the complete analysis and leave it in the mech room/roof access area. I've had my eye on the Saurmann ca 130 or the newer fieldpiece analyzers.
I was just thinking about how much i hate that they have "Honeywell Home" on commercial stats.
Fieldpiece make some nice combustion analyzers.
Chris honestly working on those packages you don’t need one all you need is a manometer draft gauge and a good understanding of the burner operations they rarely soot up
Oh I forgot I am now retired I worked on them for 40 years to long don’t get caught up in being critical
Oh I forgot I am now retired I worked on them for 40 years to long don’t get caught up in being critical
Oh I forgot I am now retired I worked on them for 40 years to long don’t get caught up in being critical
Oh I forgot I am now retired I worked on them for 40 years to long don’t get caught up in being critical
Oh I forgot I am now retired I worked on them for 40 years to long don’t get caught up in being critical
@HVACRSurvival used the inficon in his recent video with some package units. Might be worth a shot.
Hey Chris! I couldn’t happen to notice that in your recent videos you have switched over to apple devices for HVAC? Your setup looks nice!
Should check inlet gas pressure. That flex connector is undersized like you said. Could be rough in that gas valve.
Thats not a bad idea, check it on high fire to make sure its got enought juice
Testing and adjusting gas pressures is part of the commissioning process. I don't know if the factory commissioning includes a combustion analysis but it's a good cya procedure. Incomplete combustion causes high Co and in the case of a bad heat exchanger letting it into the restaurant is rare let alone producing enough to cause a problems in a restaurant would be nearly impossible because of the size of the building and the constant air flow with the exhaust fans and makeup air.
I've seen several incorrect gas lines installed
They see it needs a certain size gas line which is Inside diameter
But technician will get the outside diameter gas line
I wish I knew where I could buy one of those HVACR Videos hats,,,,hhmmmmmmm
Sauermann are pretty sweet with the app!
Carrier Infinity t-stat. is super sensitive to the temp of the wall cavity temp. Seal the wire hole .
You should carry some clench nuts and a clench nut installer for sheet metal.
Thinking of buying a combustion analyzer (fieldpiece expensive one) for our shop for the rare instance when we need it. I heard they have to be brought in from vans every night or something in cold ambient location, my guys have enough crap in their vans/stuff to worry about as it is, they do seem cool though
The rubber fasteners may be related to heat expansion or noise from the gas heater.
Maybe the manufacturer could only get them for metric, but it's screwing into rubber ... mysterious ... always send the trainee for the adjustable metric wrench 🎉
Hey Chris you could do video on your tool channel of the combustion analyzer you end up getting!
Yeah for sure if I end up getting one
18:08 I wish it was 64° here, it’s currently -2 feels like -28…
I'm betting the Restaurant got hit by either a minor Brownout (low voltage event) or a brief Power Failure and that caused the thermostat to have a Brain-Fart and flip it's setting(s)...
We have a retail property that has the same unit. 130,000 btu gas heat and single stage. The property has the Fieldpiece combustion analyzer. It makes an idiot like me a bit smarter.
Ive heard decent things about the fieldpeice. Especially if you dont need one that much.
It's a great tool. Only gripe is it's not compatible with mQ. I had to buy a saurman to have that ability. It's cheaper but at least it pairs well with mQ.
Sorry if that as been asked and answerd already. But why not use heat pumps instead? Gaz heater inside an ac unit just dosent make sense to me.
Always wondered why you liked that thermostat and that makes sense for scheduling, unfortunately I think White-Rodgers commercial stats has the same issue on scheduling as your old stat. That Honeywell stat is about the only Honeywell stat I would use.
I unfortunately can’t help with an analyzer. I only just got my company’s 5 year old UIE one about a year ago, I’ve used it more than anyone but really I still don’t know what I’m doing. I’ll be interested to learn along with you 😉
Hey Mr.HVACR I was wondering how the heating system works on these commercial units because I’m just not understanding why there is a fan blowing hot air out the unit like the thing you call a induction fan or motor or whatever I just want to learn more about it
-8 here!
Fieldpiece because you can use it as a manometer as well
You used to have a great smartwatch, Chris. When did you get the Apple watch?
My "standard" you mean "Imperial" ... which only 3 countries use. Two of which are dictatorships.
Fieldpiece CAT85K2 Combustion Analyzer with HydroCycle and Printer
I personally like to use the resto 310 combustion analyzer
I'll take the old tstat I'm sure it's fine.
IF 2 STAGE HTG NOW only 1 stage no jumper w1-w2 heater running at 50%
I would have replaced the tstat as well, or laughed when a brand new manager makes an emergency call because the bar is hot on friday night
10:05 Get a Testo 320
Why are there so many units that use gas for the heating side in the US? In New Zealand i've never seen one of these at any of my sites.
I don't work on this big stuff. In different videos you talk about an occupied signal in restaurants. Where does this signal originate or how is it initiated.
Hey Chris when you check the belt and wheels what tells you that the wheel itself is worn? I know it's probably a feel thing but is it something you can explain?
I apologize for the temps in Chicago when you come to visit. Dress warmly.
I use a Testo 300 combustion analyzer. Not sure what will work for you
Ah, thermostat decided it wanted to switch a reversing valve that didn't exist!
Like how the old enthalpy sensor was so filthy the label was completely covered with black dirt.
I'm wondering about those metric fasteners, whether they were like that from the factory, or if it is the result of a previous tech not at your company putting the wrong ones in, considering one of them was stripped too.
Edit: I wonder if the persistence of the Honeywell name is mostly for brand recognition for people not in the field.