Great informative video, but the R33 is my favorite in my personal opinion! A lot of people don't know much about Skylines, they only know of what they have seen in the movies, but glad you brought this video to inform them a little bit!
Great video, Im learning aerodynamics and thtough your video, it shows taht my understanding is correct. And probably for the same reason (air is not accessing the wing all the time), aftermarket parts made higher wing stays. Eg. Mine's made a 30mm higher wing stay than stock for it. And also, Nissan it lower maybe because they wanted to balance the front and rear downforce. As car moves faster, downforce increases. So, my hypotesis: If they made too much higher, since the flow over the roof was very fast if it hits the wing (where air is slowed and have increase in downforce significantly since different in pressure is a lot) it might have more downforce on the rear resulting in less traction up front (because of front lift). PS: GTR fan alert! I work so hard to understand its aerodynamics. When your video confirms my understanding is correct, It made my day :D
Great video, thanks for making it! This is why tuner shop JUN (and most likely others) make "high wing stands" for the R34 GTR, which position it 10 cm or so higher up. This would make it sit in the high speed area and further increase down force, with the sacrifice of drag, i assume.
What a wonderful video! I too love the R32, and would've enjoyed seeing that tested, but this is still so incredible. Well done! I love seeing input from actual engineers and not accessory manufacturers.
would love to see the Z chassis done! there are many comparable driving tests showing off the differences of how they all drive, drive, but a z32, z33, z34 areo test would be awesome! being a Z owner myself i would love to see what the tests come back as!
+GraysGarage It was a nice informative video. In this video you mentioned about the wheels contributing to the drag. Is it possible for you to make a separate video giving some more concrete details regarding that fact. It is just a suggestion. Thank you.
Once again, great work. I'd be interested to see a full blown race car in your water channel, like an F1 or an LMP1, maybe comparing older formula cars and their modern counterparts. Those bubbles would go nuts :)
Yes, the cockpit part of R32 and 34 looks like a box, the shape of the rear isn't as linear as the R35. The cockpit of R35 is channelling air towards the rear wing. Also, that's why the R35 N attack get a taller wing than the standard R35 Nismo. Not sure for the R34 but the OEM wing on the R35 is to turn wake into a much linear air flow instead of generating down force. By the way, that's why you can adjust the rear wing of the R34. You can adjust a higher angle of attack for more down force or adjust to lowest angle and make it less effective.
Grays Garage you should totally make a video about the Skylines' engines, some people have a lot of miss conceptions thinking that they have V6 engines instead of L6! thanks!
Wow never knew R35 had that low of a drag coefficient of 0.27. Thats INSANE! :O even though the R35 looks really large compared to other exotic/tuner cars. (ex. Aventador: 0.33 and 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera: 0.29)
Hi! Very unfortunate You didn't do the same with the R32 GT-R but is there any possibility to do it with this car? would be great. Also the sides to see the effects around the wheels and the wide arches of this car! Thanks and keep going with this great collaboration!
Hey man, great video. Could you do a video on station wagons versus sedan versions of a vehicle? I could imagine it being difficult to find a station scale version, but it'd be cool if you did! (Maybe an Audi Avant would be easy to find?)
I can't wait to see a video on the hood vents. It should be very interesting to see how that affects the bubble in front of the windscreen and the stagnation point at the front of the car. Would it be possible to show a top-down view of the car? Maybe you could mount the wire horizontally in front of the car. It might be interesting to see the vortexes at the rear and at the fender flares that are on cars like the R34.
Oh man I was hoping it was the R33. Thanks for the video though! *yep, to each their own. I personally find the R33 to be the most good looking of the series. Understated nonchalance.
The R34 has higher drag number of 0.36 for two reasons with one was the carbon front under tray and rear underneath diffuser and it had a angle of attack rear wing this was to make the GT-R more like racer masquerading as road going sports car
this is very interesting, nice video.. always looking for these type of research. I really looking forward to see the Civic aerodynamics results. Will it be for the 96-00 hb's? :P
Will you do an EVO 9 test? I've been arguing with some EVO owners about removing the wing will make the rear unstable. Explaining and showing pictures are not enough and they always make me look like a fool and do not know what I'm talking about.
R-32 GT-R was made from 1989 to 1994! not 1991. The R-33 had a movable rear wing that moved from 0 to 18 degrees changing Cd 0.35 to 0.39. The R-34 had a movable flap on the rear wing, the wing itself did not move, the flap moved from 0 to 30 degrees changing CD from 0.36 to 0.40 The R-34 V-spec 2 had a single NACA duct, the vented bonnet was/is a Nismo option. The rear windscreen "bubble" was something that was a major problem on the R-32 but specifically eliminated on the R-33 and 34 (which is why the small flap on the rear wind made such a big change to the Cd on the R-34) I'd suggest in your testing it was caused by the model, scaling or buy the way the downstream bubbles were made. I got my info and figures from "NISSAN GT-R" by Alex Gorodji ISBN 978-0-7603-3036-4. It mainly focuses on the R-32, 33, 34,and 35.
Like your videos, great job! Also you said Bigger wheels make more than 25% of drag. Do you know how that 25% of drag can effect on fuel consumption? Like how many percentage of fuel consumption decrease?
awesome videos ! i wonder could you do a video like this but with a volvo 740 / 760 sedan and see if a roof mounted spolier would make a difference for the better or worse ?
I wonder what speed is simulated by the wind you are applying in this simulation. Certainly the turbulence off the rear window would increase with higher speeds. I feel like with scale the speed of wind over this car may be well above realistic speeds for this car so having the wing slightly in turbulence at very high speeds could be something that was intentional from a design perspective such that extreme drag was avoided at high speeds while still adding stability starting at moderate speeds. Just my uneducated hypothesis.
The similarity parameter is known as "Reynolds number". I will be doing a dedicated video discussing this and how the tests I've performed compare to full size cars. For these qualitative visualizations it shouldn't matter too much, but for more detailed analysis you are correct, there are some differences.
+GraysGarage Please do a 2015 GTR and the 2016 GTR Nismo. I think it would be very interesting considering the Nismo version has a fixed rear spoiler design that seems to be more aggressive than the standard GTR. Thanks
Assuming they've bothered with nondims for the wind tunnel tests (which I would assume they have - going to the trouble of using a semi proper wind tunnel with nice flow vis is pissing in the wind if they haven't), then what you're looking at is fairly clean flow separation right at the edge of the windscreen. Again - assuming this is a valid test, it looks like the boundary layer likes that lip as a separation point. Up side is it's stable. Down side is more drag. Several ways to remedy that, the obvious being fix the damn pressure gradient, but we don't have that luxury. I'd stick a row of VGs (proper ones like these www.windpowerengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Power-curve-vortex.png , not the shite you're told is a vortex generator but actually just looks pretty - like this images.uptilo.com/chargespeed/018B81E1-563A-4193-8D0E-0290FF69DD4E.jpg) right at the front of the roof, behind the front windscreen. 9 times out of 10 that'll get it to stay attached most of the way down the window. Contrary to one's intuition, adding turbulence might actually solve the problem here. This is mostly to do with length scales, the turbulence we want is comprised of very small vortices, all inside the boundary layer, rather than the big ones you get when it separates. Going faster makes them stronger and keeps the boundary layer attached for longer. In this case though separation is fairly clean. There's probably a lip or an edge or some other sharp feature that's causing it and its effect needs to be overcome if flow is to remain attached a bit longer. I'm not entirely sure it is a bubble though, quite a bit of vorticity going on there and it's hard to tell without laser PIV (and some pretty expensive high speed cameras!) what is part of the vortex shedding system and what is part of the shear layer. I don't imagine the spoiler would be very effective either on that basis alone.
sorry lol i thought you're gonna upload a video with a model that has vented hoods and put it in the water. just interested how the airflow works around the vented hood.
A request, if you have time, could you do a vid on the FD2 generation of the Civic in the future? It would be a great comparison also if you like between the FD generation and the EG generation?
I I'd love to see the nissan 350z hr vs de, to see how much difference the bonnet make to the over all air flow, plus that nissan's zero lift idea??? Thanx
Prefer the R33 Shape. It is why I went out and bought one. R32 just doesn't cut it for me personally and I find the R34 to be a bit to square and flat. Its also very very much overhyped and overrated.
Best t-shirt I've ever seen.
I was hoping someone would notice!
TT mean titties
No, TT's means twin turbo... but it sounds like tittes :)
Cobraa i know that mean....but if girls wear this shirt....the turbo icon really match the titties...
Great video..The R33 also has an adjustable rear wing
Great informative video, but the R33 is my favorite in my personal opinion! A lot of people don't know much about Skylines, they only know of what they have seen in the movies, but glad you brought this video to inform them a little bit!
The R33 is beautiful, you're crazy.. lol Nice Video btw
maybe I am crazy :)
haha
To be fair, it is the least popular out of the skyline gtrs so he is not alone 😆. ( I own an R33 GTR and have always liked the R33 myself.)
Great video, Im learning aerodynamics and thtough your video, it shows taht my understanding is correct. And probably for the same reason (air is not accessing the wing all the time), aftermarket parts made higher wing stays. Eg. Mine's made a 30mm higher wing stay than stock for it. And also, Nissan it lower maybe because they wanted to balance the front and rear downforce. As car moves faster, downforce increases. So, my hypotesis: If they made too much higher, since the flow over the roof was very fast if it hits the wing (where air is slowed and have increase in downforce significantly since different in pressure is a lot) it might have more downforce on the rear resulting in less traction up front (because of front lift).
PS: GTR fan alert! I work so hard to understand its aerodynamics. When your video confirms my understanding is correct, It made my day :D
I personally think the R33 is the best looking Skyline of the series.
Great video, thanks for making it! This is why tuner shop JUN (and most likely others) make "high wing stands" for the R34 GTR, which position it 10 cm or so higher up. This would make it sit in the high speed area and further increase down force, with the sacrifice of drag, i assume.
What a wonderful video! I too love the R32, and would've enjoyed seeing that tested, but this is still so incredible. Well done! I love seeing input from actual engineers and not accessory manufacturers.
would love to see the Z chassis done! there are many comparable driving tests showing off the differences of how they all drive, drive, but a z32, z33, z34 areo test would be awesome! being a Z owner myself i would love to see what the tests come back as!
+GraysGarage It was a nice informative video. In this video you mentioned about the wheels contributing to the drag. Is it possible for you to make a separate video giving some more concrete details regarding that fact. It is just a suggestion. Thank you.
Once again, great work. I'd be interested to see a full blown race car in your water channel, like an F1 or an LMP1, maybe comparing older formula cars and their modern counterparts. Those bubbles would go nuts :)
Yes, the cockpit part of R32 and 34 looks like a box, the shape of the rear isn't as linear as the R35. The cockpit of R35 is channelling air towards the rear wing.
Also, that's why the R35 N attack get a taller wing than the standard R35 Nismo. Not sure for the R34 but the OEM wing on the R35 is to turn wake into a much linear air flow instead of generating down force. By the way, that's why you can adjust the rear wing of the R34. You can adjust a higher angle of attack for more down force or adjust to lowest angle and make it less effective.
Grays Garage you should totally make a video about the Skylines' engines, some people have a lot of miss conceptions thinking that they have V6 engines instead of L6! thanks!
I love your shirt man
R32 made between 89-94
Do one for EVO 7/8/9 please
It will be sweet if you can do EVO V/VI too
Wow never knew R35 had that low of a drag coefficient of 0.27. Thats INSANE! :O even though the R35 looks really large compared to other exotic/tuner cars. (ex. Aventador: 0.33 and 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera: 0.29)
BossAznMusician The CD takes into account only the shape, not the frontal area, so how large the car is doesn't affect it.
Hi! Very unfortunate You didn't do the same with the R32 GT-R but is there any possibility to do it with this car? would be great. Also the sides to see the effects around the wheels and the wide arches of this car!
Thanks and keep going with this great collaboration!
Hey man, great video. Could you do a video on station wagons versus sedan versions of a vehicle? I could imagine it being difficult to find a station scale version, but it'd be cool if you did!
(Maybe an Audi Avant would be easy to find?)
Very cool. I'd love to see the 350 Z and the difference between the track and non-track trims. I wonder if any models exist of those.
I can't wait to see a video on the hood vents. It should be very interesting to see how that affects the bubble in front of the windscreen and the stagnation point at the front of the car. Would it be possible to show a top-down view of the car? Maybe you could mount the wire horizontally in front of the car. It might be interesting to see the vortexes at the rear and at the fender flares that are on cars like the R34.
I did this in Ep. 2 for the pop-up headlights. The setup is just a little bit more involving, I might try it again.
GraysGarage Forgot about that! Thank you.
I wish my aero lessons at the university were that interesting.
Oh man I was hoping it was the R33. Thanks for the video though!
*yep, to each their own. I personally find the R33 to be the most good looking of the series. Understated nonchalance.
I would be really interested in video showing vortex generators helping fill in flow separation on rear window(evo 8 comes to mind).
You should do a video on the vauxhall calibra or opel calibra or Holden calibra
The R34 has higher drag number of 0.36 for two reasons with one was the carbon front under tray and rear underneath diffuser and it had a angle of attack rear wing this was to make the GT-R more like racer masquerading as road going sports car
Funnily enough the rear visibility is terrible with the standard R34 GTR, raising it up actually improves things somewhat.
this is very interesting, nice video.. always looking for these type of research. I really looking forward to see the Civic aerodynamics results. Will it be for the 96-00 hb's? :P
5th gen EG? I'm not a honda guy but I think that's the right chassis code.
GraysGarage ok great, 5.gen would be nice to see as well..
since there are tons of wings for Civics available nowdays.
GraysGarage EK Civics are 6th gen
Will you do an EVO 9 test? I've been arguing with some EVO owners about removing the wing will make the rear unstable. Explaining and showing pictures are not enough and they always make me look like a fool and do not know what I'm talking about.
Pretty good information, but Z-tune doesn't have rear under diffuser.
the model and book said otherwise.
are you going to publish the findings from the hood vents? i am very interested in those results
Would like to have seen the oem wing compared to a duckbill style wing and a lip style wing.
Great video man gave a like and sub! Btw the R33 GTR has a adjustable wing too just fyi to everyone I just found this out this month on my Buddys R33
R-32 GT-R was made from 1989 to 1994! not 1991. The R-33 had a movable rear wing that moved from 0 to 18 degrees changing Cd 0.35 to 0.39. The R-34 had a movable flap on the rear wing, the wing itself did not move, the flap moved from 0 to 30 degrees changing CD from 0.36 to 0.40 The R-34 V-spec 2 had a single NACA duct, the vented bonnet was/is a Nismo option. The rear windscreen "bubble" was something that was a major problem on the R-32 but specifically eliminated on the R-33 and 34 (which is why the small flap on the rear wind made such a big change to the Cd on the R-34) I'd suggest in your testing it was caused by the model, scaling or buy the way the downstream bubbles were made. I got my info and figures from "NISSAN GT-R" by Alex Gorodji ISBN 978-0-7603-3036-4. It mainly focuses on the R-32, 33, 34,and 35.
awesome information, if I can find the time, I will update the video with these edits. Thank you!
updated with this new info, thank you for catching me on these!
Like your videos, great job!
Also you said Bigger wheels make more than 25% of drag. Do you know how that 25% of drag can effect on fuel consumption? Like how many percentage of fuel consumption decrease?
awesome videos ! i wonder could you do a video like this but with a volvo 740 / 760 sedan and see if a roof mounted spolier would make a difference for the better or worse ?
very nice! Would be cool to see the aerodunamic difference between E46 M3 and E46 M3 CSL with ducktail trunk lid.
ill put it on the list!
Great video, would really like to see the results on the hood vents! :)
coming soon!
Hello mate. Can we have more videos of this please
Gtr have more drag for cooling prob biggest factor for high cd.
omg please do this on the r35 vs the nismo r35 please!
I wonder what speed is simulated by the wind you are applying in this simulation. Certainly the turbulence off the rear window would increase with higher speeds. I feel like with scale the speed of wind over this car may be well above realistic speeds for this car so having the wing slightly in turbulence at very high speeds could be something that was intentional from a design perspective such that extreme drag was avoided at high speeds while still adding stability starting at moderate speeds. Just my uneducated hypothesis.
The similarity parameter is known as "Reynolds number". I will be doing a dedicated video discussing this and how the tests I've performed compare to full size cars. For these qualitative visualizations it shouldn't matter too much, but for more detailed analysis you are correct, there are some differences.
GraysGarage Could you do a aero test on bugatti veyron model please? I think they have really interesting design
+GraysGarage Please do a 2015 GTR and the 2016 GTR Nismo. I think it would be very interesting considering the Nismo version has a fixed rear spoiler design that seems to be more aggressive than the standard GTR.
Thanks
Assuming they've bothered with nondims for the wind tunnel tests (which I would assume they have - going to the trouble of using a semi proper wind tunnel with nice flow vis is pissing in the wind if they haven't), then what you're looking at is fairly clean flow separation right at the edge of the windscreen. Again - assuming this is a valid test, it looks like the boundary layer likes that lip as a separation point. Up side is it's stable. Down side is more drag. Several ways to remedy that, the obvious being fix the damn pressure gradient, but we don't have that luxury. I'd stick a row of VGs (proper ones like these www.windpowerengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Power-curve-vortex.png , not the shite you're told is a vortex generator but actually just looks pretty - like this images.uptilo.com/chargespeed/018B81E1-563A-4193-8D0E-0290FF69DD4E.jpg) right at the front of the roof, behind the front windscreen. 9 times out of 10 that'll get it to stay attached most of the way down the window.
Contrary to one's intuition, adding turbulence might actually solve the problem here. This is mostly to do with length scales, the turbulence we want is comprised of very small vortices, all inside the boundary layer, rather than the big ones you get when it separates. Going faster makes them stronger and keeps the boundary layer attached for longer. In this case though separation is fairly clean. There's probably a lip or an edge or some other sharp feature that's causing it and its effect needs to be overcome if flow is to remain attached a bit longer.
I'm not entirely sure it is a bubble though, quite a bit of vorticity going on there and it's hard to tell without laser PIV (and some pretty expensive high speed cameras!) what is part of the vortex shedding system and what is part of the shear layer. I don't imagine the spoiler would be very effective either on that basis alone.
Where's the vented hood segment??? I'm interested on how effective having vented hoods
right up at the front of the nose, if you search in google images you should be able to come up with a few images of it.
sorry lol i thought you're gonna upload a video with a model that has vented hoods and put it in the water. just interested how the airflow works around the vented hood.
you have an awesome channel, subbed.
Can you do a motorcycle with rider aerodynamic test too?
A request, if you have time, could you do a vid on the FD2 generation of the Civic in the future? It would be a great comparison also if you like between the FD generation and the EG generation?
its on the list!
Thank You SOOO MUCH my man! xDDD
Really informative information. Props to you. Thanks for sharing from you being a PhD student. :)
thank you!
does hydrogen production increase with flowing water?
Would you be able to do a KGC10 skyline aerodynamic test?
Please make video of Alfa Romeo Giulia Super vs Carrera 911 from 1970!!!
I I'd love to see the nissan 350z hr vs de, to see how much difference the bonnet make to the over all air flow, plus that nissan's zero lift idea???
Thanx
I'll put it on the list!
very helpful, thank you
your welcome!
very nice!, could you do one for the subaru wrx sti? i personally like the 07' the best
already on it
Thanks for such a interesting videos! I wonder if you have time or interest to make aerodynamics comparison between sedan and station wagon?
If I can find the same model with both variants I'll definitely give it a try.
Nice shirt
I have a OEM diffuser right in front on my windshield on my ST185, does it serve any purpose?
can you email me a picture? my email is located on my website.
Cool Video Thanks :)
Maybe you could do the same with a Subaru Impreza WRX STi? :)
already working on it.
I wanna get that shirt!!!!
Nissan GT-R R35 vs R35 without Wing vs R35 with a Ducktail Bootlid
DON'T YOU MAKE VIDEOS ANYMORE?
Prefer the R33 Shape. It is why I went out and bought one. R32 just doesn't cut it for me personally and I find the R34 to be a bit to square and flat. Its also very very much overhyped and overrated.
Since I'm an 80's car lover, I prefer the more angular cars, but I get where you are coming from.
R35 is not a Skyline, yo.
....he said before watching the WHOLE video.
Steve Durman haha
R35 is not called a Skyline anymore.
yep, I know. Just wanted to include it in this one video.
AllThisForAName It can be CALLED whatever it wants that thing IS a skyline
TTS LOL