The Umineko Experience: Episode 4 - Part 1
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- Umineko No Naku Koro Ni, one of the most beloved and popular visual novels in the entire genre. After reading Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni, I wonder what Ryukishi07 has in store for Umineko, in this psychological fantasy murder mystery visual novel
Today, you're going to get a taste of my Umineko Experience for the first time.
Presenting from The August Hail: The Umineko Experience: Chapter 4 Part 1 - Alliance of the Golden Witch
#visualnovel #umineko
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➡️The Umineko Experience - Chapter 1: • The Umineko Experience...
➡️The Umineko Experience - Chapter 2: • The Umineko Experience...
➡️The Umineko Experience - Chapter 3: • The Umineko Experience...
➡️The Umineko Experience - Chapter 4 - Part 1: • The Umineko Experience...
➡️The Umineko Experience - Chapter 4 - Part 2: • The Umineko Experience...
➡️The Umineko Experience: Episode 5 - • The Umineko Experience...
➡️The Umineko Experience: Episode 6 - • The Umineko Experience...
➡️The Umineko Experience: Episode 7 - • The Umineko Experience...
➡️The Umineko Experience: Episode 8 - Part 1: • The Umineko Experience...
➡️The Umineko Experience: Episode 8 - Part 2: • The Umineko Experience...
➡️The Umineko Experience - Playlist: • The Umineko Experience
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➡️ANIME VISUAL NOVEL REVIEWS: • Visual Novel Reviews
![ARGENTINA vs. BOLIVIA [6-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C3wPtKNbAOA/mqdefault.jpg)
It's easy to hate Rosa. Because she sucks. But the more I read of Umineko, the more I feel like we're supposed to hate the culture that allowed the Rosa-Maria dynamic to exist even more than the woman herself. Being a single mother in 80s Japan where single mothers were often seen as scum, showing signs of serious bipolar disorder when even in Japan today there's a stigma against getting therapy, with a seemingly autistic daughter before autism was even recognized as a thing... frankly, it's difficult to imagine a realistic portrayal of that situation playing out any better than this.
I want to just say Rosa's entirely at fault for taking the actions she does, but assuming I'm not reading too much into her showing real signs of mental illness, is that fair of me? Or is she just another victim of society doing nothing to help those in need of help, and I'm the asshole for expecting someone with untreated bipolar disorder to be in control of their actions when they're thrust into a situation raising an incredibly difficult child who is a constant reminder of the lowest point in their life, whose seeming lack of development as they grow leaves Rosa feel as though she's perpetually locked at a single point in her life and unable to progress or succeed no matter what she does?
Ryukishi's at it again, I guess!
This so much.
Don't forget that even now, Japanese mental health services are terrible. Back in the 80s, dear lord. You couldn't have expected much help at all unless it involved institutionalization. There would have been even less help for Maria with the ASD than we might have even expected in the States during that time period.
I too used to hate Rosa so much, but re-reading Umineko made me understand her more. I'm not justifying her, but understanding her.
I think this is the point of Ryukishi with his chracters: he writes extremely human characters with many flaws but wants the reader to understand their motivations. Nobody is perfect and everyone has their sins, and understanding them is important, even if you can't forgive them.
Ryukishi himself was unsatisfied in how he treated Teppei in Higurashi's Minagoroshi chapter, since he didn't like writing a totally negative and antagonistic character. Indeed in Umineko he did a far better job in making almost every character grey instead of black or white. Even if some characters does awfully horrible things (as in ep 7 tea party, if you know what I mean), there is always a parent motivations to that (and in that tea party it is pretty clear).
Ryukishi uses his characters to criticize a lot japanese society and their negligence into caring about mental health.
PS: Rosa is not bipolar, since Bipolarity has a manic state and she doesn't have that. She may suffer of Intermittent Explosive Disorder (IED).
@@Becix157 Ah, see, I always interpreted Rosa's personality as Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). She changes moods fast, violently even, which leads her to impulse behavior; seen best in when she physically abuses Maria. Though she mostly displays the anger associated with BPD, she clearly struggles with her self-image, depression and anxiety, all of which is associated with BPD as well. This is best displayed in how she cannot see herself as an adult and feels as though she will never grow or progress. Her perceived position in the family leads her to limiting her expectations, something I've personally experienced a lot with depression and self-loathing. She talks about not allowing herself to have such naïve dreams when Eva expresses concern that Rosa might try to steal the headship from her; she's already given up and sees herself as unfit. She seems to have a bit of a persecution complex too, though, in how she assumes that everyone is silently judging her, which plays into the anxiety aspect of BPD, as it's based in the irrational paranoia/anxiety that people are constantly plotting against you, which is explored extensively in Higurashi. However, that's just my take on it. Ryukishi was smart never to put a name to Rosa's violent mood swings; it not only fits the heart of the story that the truth can be whatever you imagine it as (as well as playing into the idea of "Without love it cannot be seen," as Rosa's love of Maria is easy to overlook when her violent moods are brought to the forefront), but it also makes her more broadly relatable since she isn't confined to a particular disorder or disease.
Also; aside from the original comment's reasoning as to why Rosa gets along so poorly with Maria, I always saw the main issue being that Rosa wanted desperately to fit in but wasn't allowed to by her family. Seeing Maria willingly ostracize herself from her peers, in my eyes, would make her very upset because Rosa didn't get a choice in the matter while Maria is actively rejecting the reality Rosa wanted at her age.
@@wolfywonder8480 I'm not a psychologist, so I cannot diagnose Rosa
Ryukishi did well to not give names to their conditions since often names for psychological disorders may feel offensive for those who are in that condition, especially ones like BPD or Bipolar disorder
The same goes for Maria, that seems to have some behaviours associable to the autistic spectrum, but even here it's all speculation
I cannot but keep coming back to that wonderful, wonderful conversation between Ange and Maria. The question at hand: is Maria happy? Is there happiness in Maria's life? Does she create a world of happiness for herself? Or is Ange right -- Maria is actually very unhappy, and her claims to happiness are all (Existentialist) 'bad-faith' lies painted over a sad reality?... Or, to flip the table around: what about Ange's unhappiness? Is she unhappy BECAUSE the world is objectively so bad to her that there is no way she could be happy... or is she unhappy BECAUSE she does not want to grab the happiness that is lying right there, near her -- BECAUSE she is afraid that there might a but a fragment with unhappiness in it? I.e., is Ange unhappy because her world is objectively incompatible with her happiness... or because her interpretation of it is such that any sources of happiness in it are dismissed piont-blank? Is Ange depressed BECAUSE she has no choice, or, on the contrary, because she chose to be?
Umineko fans often say that there is validity to both perceptions, even though they prefer one of them (usually Ange's). I will suggest, though, that Umineko tends to present EVERYTHING as perception-dependent. If 'without love you don't see it (= the truth)', as Okonogi tells Ange, then your perception (says Umineko) does affect your conclusion about the world you live in. ANY real-world situation HAS TO GO through a perspective -- an interpretation. There is no such thing as a "pure" reality (the famous Ding-an-sich); there is ONLY "mediated reality" -- changed by a perspective, by the glasses we're wearing, etc. So the question is not so much who is right, Ange or Maria; rather, what are the consequences for each of them of the perspectives they have adopted?
Does this imply a denial of the very concept of truth? Not necessarily -- it implies (as philosophers have known since Kant) a denial of ABSOLUTE truth, i.e. a truth based on reality-in-itself, without perception or perspective (the infamous Ding-an-sich, or thing-in-itself). But WITHIN a perspective, things can still be "objectively" true or false, based on evidence. BUT -- nothing "objective" within a perspective can make you give up that perspective and exchange it for another; something else (let's say, a life-changing experience) has to happen to you. It seems to me that Ange gradually came to realize that Maria's perspective had a lot of value, and that its truth was not simply 'wrong' -- in fact, it couldn't be 'wrong' except in an ABSOLUTE perspective, which doesn't exist... and that may could as a life-changing, albeit gradually, event. Ange is changing her perspective, moderating it and adopting elements from Maria's. Maybe the deepest question for Umineko fans at this point is: do you think this is a good, or a bad, thing? In each case, why do you think so?
Wow. Such a good comment. It was very interesting to read your thoughts, thank you!
I think it's a good thing that Ange adopts some Maria's views.
Ange is depressed and she sees the world as totally black. But during ep 4 she starts to believing in herself and into "her world" a bit more, adopting Maria's optimistic vision and trying to find her own happiness. Before that, she had no love for the world and for herself, but then she starts to believing in a new world, in a new truth that "without love it could not be seen"
Still having only Maria's vision may be harmful in long-term. But her saying "I'm okay to be bullied otherwise weaker children are bullied in my place" it's truly wonderful.
Looking at the world from different perspectives may be only be helpful in order to not be taken in a spiral of bad emotions or bad habits that can be harmful. If you look at the world from only one angle you start to overthinking and to be close-minded. A secondary view can make your thinking a bit more impartial.
while I do understand why Maria chose the way she viewed her world, it's pointless. but that doesn't mean it's not wrong, since reality is often shit. I never bought that "positive thinking" attitude, since it always seemed fake. just something people use to cope with. but if it works for them, then I don't see why they should stop.
so I lean more on Ange's side. I just see the world as it is.
This section of Episode 4 is rough, very draining emotionally. It was hard to get through, but there is so much to be learned from it about the nature of magic that really opened up my understanding of it all.
hard agree. I FINALLY got through Episode 4 a bit ago and I'm now on the EP4 Tea Party. I'm finally moving on, after being hardstuck for a little close to a YEAR on Ep4 because I just kept running into the wall of my own emotions. It's a DAMN good feeling.
Oh man, those Rosa and Maria sections are just the hardest part to read. Just when you thought you saw the worst of it and got the idea with the train in Episode 2, Ryukishi illustrates it more. But it's still such an important part to get to the 'heart' of the story.
I remember when I took a Japanese Pop Culture class in college, one of the things that we talked about were "women's roles" in things like 80's and earlier media; how in the west, with things like Disney, a girl's "Happily Ever After" is supposed to come after getting married. But in Japan, it went a step further than that, and it was "Get married and have kids". I felt like it gave me a little more insight to the the mom characters. Each of them should have reached their 'happily ever after', but that's not how things work in real life.
Not that I'm an expert in such matter, but I believe Japan always has had a strict mindset with it comes to those values--and given Japan' is a very traditional and stubborn in that way, it makes a lot of sense.
The Maria and Rosa sections are actually what made me step away from the VN for a few months because BOY HOWDY was my heart _not_ ready for such an emotional beatdown in the _slightest._ I'm in a MUCH better place now, though. Which is what finally gave me the strength and courage to actually finish Episode 4 and now I'm finally on Episode 5 :D
"I'm gonna need to take a look at that later to see if it's the same guy"
It's... complicated.
Okinogi, the universal constant
24:39 Oh boy if you tought ya need to call child welfare services on Higurashi and Umineko get ready for Ciconia. If Umineko is electric bogaloo part 2, Ciconia be like now featuring Dante
"Emotional difficulties, please stand by" really is an accurate summary of the whole experience, honestly.
Probably was the right choice to split it up, Episode 4 is just a lot. It's a lot. Love it though, and the way it kind of recontextualized what you know about the game while re-centering the focus of the story on the tragedy of its characters rather than the deaths in the murder mystery.
And finally... Rosa. Ah Rosa, Rosa, Rosa, Rosa... the wilted rose that Maria found and wanted to protect in the Rokkenjima rose garden... We see several interactions, some in which Rosa almost does the worst... but comes back from the edge of the abyss, and hugs Maria and cries and apologizes... and then we see one scene in which she... doesn't.
Is Rosa a monster? She is certainly hated by many, and Umineko gives us abundant material to justify that hatred. But Umineko is nothing if not a world full of complicated individuals; so Rosa is not simple. We see from Ep. 2 on (the scene in which Beatrice force-fed her entire dead family to her) that Rosa, as the youngest sibling, was always bullied and depised by her siblings. In fact, there isn't a single scene in the entire VN in which any of her siblings says anything nice, supportive, or encouraging to Rosa. All comments by siblings are either neutral, or negative (Eva in Ep. 3: "you always hid behind your weakness!"; Rudolf, also in Ep. 3: "Rosa is always running away...") The only person who showed her a modicum of kindness was Kyrie in Ep. 2, when she talked about how little girls need understanding from their mothers; and this affected Rosa so much, she said to Kyrie they should perhaps get together and talk more later, in Tokyo, after the conference... which of course would never happened, since they all died... The constant bullying and contempt from siblings and father alike sapped all of Rosa's self confidence, and her natural strength and courage (see her moment of awesome in the final scene in Ep. 2, killing goats with that gun...) wilted. She even went through her own Sakutaro moment (she mentions in passing that her siblings had also torn apart some of her stuffed toys when she was little; the manga goes into more detail in a scene with her stuffed rabbit, quite similar in tone to the 'Sakutaro' scene).
So Rosa is broken. And being broken, she breaks Maria. Because... hurt people hurt people, broken people break people.
Mama won't acknowledge Maria. So broken Maria will never be 'fixed.'
Siblings/Father won't acknowledge Rosa. So broken Rosa will never be 'fixed.'
Do you see why, rather than spend much time on whether or not Rosa is "best mom" (of course she isn't) or whether or not we should love or hate her (both are right), I prefer to think: Rosa is Maria, Maria is Rosa... Just as the sibling abuse broke Rosa, Rosa's abuse is breaking Maria. And nothing makes it more obvious than Rosa's punishment scene: Maria now has a 'dark witch' also within herself who is capable of horrible violence (albeit in her imagination). This new 'dark Maria' even talks occasionally like EVA Beatrice ('if you can revive her, then there's no problem in killing mama again and again and again.... Kihihihihi!"). If Maria had survived Rokkenjima, what kind of effect would this new element have on her personality? Would she grow up to become an abuser, too? To use black magic against her stupid boss, a possible stupid husband/boyfriend, perhaps a child?... and if she were in a position of power, say as the mother of a child, would she perhaps sometimes use a little of this black magic... in real life? Just like Rosa did?... This possibility, considering Maria's originally happy, bright, gentle personality, just breaks my heart to very very tiny pieces...
Based on the turn that some of her diary entries were taking (as discussed later in the arc), it unfortunately wouldn't have surprised me for her to ultimately lash out physically at her classmates. One of the things I like about this arc is that through this relationship, it begins to show just how difficult a happy ending would have been for this family even if the murders hadn't happened.
@@clevomon I tend to agree. That, and Krauss' realization in Ep. 3 that the way he treated Eva (and the other siblings) hadn't been good, that he was ... part of the reason they have problems, yet there was nothing to be done now, it was already too late... point towards this conclusion. There is a reason why the Ushiromiya symbol is the one-winged eagle: you can't fly with a one wing, despite of how much good there still be hiding inside of you.
What I can sitll say, though, is that Ryūkishi, with his clever prose, succeeded in offering us a family of disfunctional siblings in which we can still clearly see how much good there is inside of each of them. Despite all their flaws... there is the possibility of love in each of them. In Krauss, in Eva, in Rudolf, in Rosa. Even in Kinzo. That this possibility was at best only partially and imperfectly realized some of the time, really breaks my heart. In the end, Umineko is one of these works that make you feel like calling all your family and telling them you love them, and that you're sorry if you ever did anything to cause them pain, and that you realize they're real people with hearts even if they have caused you pain. Maybe this is the most important 'it' that love allows you to see: that your family and friends... are more than whatever pile of dysfunctionality they may have thrown on your back. That humans, however flawed, are... humans.
The Ushiromiya will remain forever in my mind as the family of the one-winged eagle (who cannot fly -- Wingless) and as the family of the wilted rose (who can no longer be found -- it is too late, Gohda already made his dessert with it).
I can see your point but I can't really agree. It's hard to say a lot of things about Maria because we never really get to see her develop past 9 years old, through all of her actions we have to remember she is only a child. Which is why I love when media has timeskips for characters.
Anyway, Rosa takes her anger and hurt out on an innocent child. Maria takes her anger and hurt out on the woman who abused her and classmates who have bullied - perhaps borderline abused - her.
Because of this, Maria is much more sympathetic to me than Rosa.
I think it's never justified to take your hurt out on innocents... but taking your hurt out on abusers whilst not 'right' is a hell of a lot more understandable. At least that's my view.
A child who is justifiably angry towards her abusive mother and classmates vs a mother who hurts the child she was supposed to protect over and over who admits she's never even loved her.
If Rosa had took her anger out on her older siblings instead of her child I could sympathise more.
But Rosa is a horrible person.
Just like with Teppei, I doubt I could ever see Rosa in a good light.
Rosa is not Maria. Maria is not Rosa.
Maria takes her anger out on people who have directly hurt her. Rosa takes her anger out on an innocent child.
But again - we never get to see Maria grow up. Though even when Rosa was a child she gets quickly irritated by Human Beatrice that she helped escape. So from an early age she's been different from Maria.
You can be broken and not hurt innocents - at least not like Rosa. Which is why Ange is so great to me.
Just my two cents!
@@myon9431 @Tifa I really think that playing into the idea of justified anger is a little bit redundant. The reason as to why Rosa hurts Maria is because she is a weak person who can't stand against others, same as Maria.
Maria resorts to her magic in the same way Beato does, to get catharsis, but it doesn't really solves any of her hurt.
Wanting to lash out at people who hurt you is of course, an understandable thing, but the thing is, how will a little girl who's known abuse for most of her life, that learned she can make her pain go away by making fantasies where she hurts people for having wronged her know how to act in a different way. It's not like Rosa is fully fake with her kindness, it's not like she's incapable of knowing she's cruel and unfair, but she doesn't know any better. Her shortcomings are too present.
Parents can say really messed up things to their children and still feel like they love them, even if they deny it to their faces.
Rosa isn't some awful demon who is fully hypocritical and cold, she's a mentally ill woman who was a victim of abuse and is now hurting somebody because of that stunted development, even if Maria is a sweet intelligent girl, she is still capable of hurting others, even if they don't deserve it in a logical sense (like how she threatens her cousins constantly from this chapter onwards)
I’m still reading episode 4 but it’s especially difficult because I relate to Maria so much as an autistic only child in a dysfunctional family.
I can’t give enough praise to Ryukishi for writing such a realistic depiction of what it’s like to grow up lonely as a neurodivergent person
One thing that Ep. 4 made me realize (I had already guessed it earlier, but Ep. 4 confirmed it in all kinds of ways) is how magic and witches for Maria were like coping mechanisms for a reality that wasn't very nice to her. Looking back from this perspective, and thinking of all the witches we saw -- say, EVA Beatrice, who was a ... creation? coping mechanism? ... for Eva Ushiromiya... one is then struck by the question: what about Beatrice herself? Who is she a 'coping mechanism' for? And if magic belongs in the realm of 'creation' and 'imagination'... so that Maria can 'see' Sakutaro or the bunny girls as real and alive... then what does this tell us about other magical beings that we have seen everywhere on Rokkenjima?
And yet... if you get the Umineko message at a deeper level (cf. the conversation between Maria and Ange: "you, Ange, are a sad person... you'll never allow yourself to be happy as long as there is but a single fragment that contains unhappiness lying around...")... then maybe 'coping mechanism' is not the right term. And yet, if so, what might be the right term?... (Cue to intro to philosophy, metaphics, and epistemology).
I sometimes think one could write a whole 20-page paper on the nature of reality and magic in Umineko, and it may well be worthwhile to do so. Episodes like Ep. 4 fill me with awe and wonder at the structure behind all this.
مذيسضذ
1:33 made me realize that Ronove has the same VA as Gintoki
What a world
Maria's relationship with Rosa is probably one of my favorite I've seen. Even though Rosa seems really negligent, you can see how much she actually loves Maria; example being when she takes on all the goat heads in episode 2
Nah, that Rosa is one who could have been, in a world where her life was different. In the world of reality Rosa is just a broken woman passing on her trauma, and then some to her kid.
She wants to be a respectable loving mother who has it all together but she isn't.
I must have gone through this part of the story over a dozen times now, and it still gets me bawling...
Arc 4 and 5 are my favorite. I remember i read the maria flashback all at once,it was so fucked up i had to do it at once.
Oh yeah, here we go again! The ride continues!
Honestly the buildup through the 4 question arcs is soooo good. The answer arcs are also fantastic!
2:15 What is this tone? What is this tone?!
*is Mr Zacky and you better learn to love it!!!!*
Damn that detail in the phone call just stabs.... Never mind that, the whole last sequence just kills me.
Dude, your reaction to the starting scene in the video, absolute gold!
2 parts? boy. this is a doozy
Alliance is the longest chapter after all
This series is so good. Subscribed
The Rosa - Maria parts of this chapter are really difficult to watch. Also, hopefully you make a theory video after finishing ep. 4 but before starting ep. 5. Ep. 4 is end of answer arcs, so would be interesting to hear theories then
I discovered yesterday your channel because of Umineko, and I loved it and subscribed to your channel quickly, seeing you react to the chapters made me remember the joy and reactions at that time, and the 6 months or more of waiting for the traduction.
And the time flies quickly with your content.
Glad you are enjoying the ride with Umineko and please, say your theories, it's the other fun in Umineko.
Don't worry if you are wrong :)
It's been such a thrilling with Umineko so far I can't wait to see where it takes me.
Maria is such a great character
She sure is.
24:36 now i see this was not the first time ryukishi wrote about child neglect and abuse,this topic must be a favorite of his,i hope it wasn,t from personal experience.
Before becoming an Author Ryukishi was a Social Worker, so it mostly comes from Work Experience.
@@InquisitorThomas One wonders how much Ryūkishi saw that looks like what he depicts with characters like Maria in Umineko or Satoko in Higurashi.
@@InquisitorThomas Makes sense. Even I as a bar-owner in Osaka ran into enough of these traumatized people to be deeply affected. Going over Umineko now hits very different from back when I was a teen reading it for the first time.
love the umineko content :D
My friend prefers rosa over maria. Why am I even being friends with him after this chapter?
Frankly, Maria and Rosa are basically the same person... at two different points in their development. That is what is so harrowing in their relationship: cf. the eternal chain of pain, whereby hurt people hurt people, etc. etc. etc...
@@Asehpe Yeah, no.
HOLD UP HOLD UP IF RIKA WENT TO ST LUCIA IN 1986 AND ANGE DID TOO WOULDN'T THEY MEET
Say Rudolf and Eva that they should Kirie talk to krauss earlyer 🤣
"... Couldn't Rosa just hire a babysitter or something?"
!....
I must admit I never thought about this possibility. Does anyone know why Rosa wouldn't hire a babysitter to take care of Maria while she's away? Īt can't be because of money, she's an Ushiromiya after all... (The only thing I can think of is that this person would eventually guess that Rosa is going away on vacation trips and leaving Maria alone, and Rosa couldn't stand being judged like this, even by a lowly babysitter... but still.)
I feel like hiring a babysitter would feed into to 'bad momma' loop in rosas mind. Like, Im going to hire a babysitter for maria so she is taken good care of --> Im a bad mother because someone else is looking after her --> im a bad mother? How dare the babysitter (and not me) think that!! I'll show them what for! --> I never even wanted maria anyway! Why is she even alive!! This is a waste, im firing them --> im sorry for firing your babysitter maria, here's a popsicle. Rinse and repeat
@@md-fi7zt Yeah, probably.
Rosa cares a lot about how she is percived by the people around her, hire a babysitter would make her look like a Mom that cannot take care of her own child, and as she was raised with the weight of 3 succeeding siblings way older than her, his father never aknowledge anything she did, nor had any expectation of her.
Her complex for being 'non capable' of anything is one of her biggest trauma. Even if no one knew she hired a babysitter, she'd knew and that would hurt her more than anything
Because Rosa cares more about the perception others have of her/saving face more than Maria's well-being.
Also, being a single mother in Japan is still a GIANT problem and really looked down, way more than you can imagine. I can't even imagine how worse it was at the game time frame
From what I understand, in 1980’s Japan, it was considered shameful to have someone look after your child that isn’t a relative. Rosa’s poor relationship with her sibs & dad (plus the distance involved for some of them) takes that option off the table and I think there weren’t any babysitting or childcare services available for her to hire so she’s stuck having to leave Maria alone because she’s afraid of being judged further by society.
28:41 now there it is,the whole novel in one sentence.
At 10:45 i don't knew it i read it in other comments that it Was not as easy as today in Japan and Rosa don't want a stranger near Maria.
There's so many things the PS3 version did better. Especially the gorgeous CGs like with Ange doing the Tsukihime moon pose.
But I must say that if there is anything the Steam pachinko sprites did well, was some of the deranged sprites like Goldsmith Kinzo. Holy fuck, those deep eyes shadows make him even more horrifying.
N I C E
Rosa made me physically angry in this episode
Me too. And also physically sad. She is "tragic evil" from an originally good source... the textbook example.
For this Ticket you get later a answer but only for that. Think that you belive is the truth.
she broke
hahaha yup
Maybe what eva beatrice did to rosa last chapter was justified, and good actually
No it wasn't because Eva is one of the main reasons of why Rosa is Rosa. You should stop writing stupid comments next time.