@@jacobfield4848 If you don’t have a discussion how do you grow as a person how do you educate and learn how do you express How you feel never been a Jw
Incidentally, the Elder are liars , because they say the want to help Jake. They don't want to help, they want to disfellowship him. The WT organisation is disgusting.
I agree with what you saying and I'm a disfellowshipped brother and the elders were dying to get rid of me and they did.. and because of this cult, I've lost my own mom to this disgusting cult
@@joeyelfather25 If you read the book called 1984 by George Orwell. It's not about Jehovahs Witnesses of course. But it very eerily, highlights the way Jehovahs Witnesses have been systematically indoctrinated to think. I can't explain fully because it will take to long. But if you have read that book you will know what I mean. Here's and example. To Jehovahs Witnesses disfellowshiping is a "loving provision." When of course there is nothing loving about it. It's emotional blackmail and it can cause very serious psychological harm. Some disfellowshiped ones have committed suicide. Also like in the book 1984 they have a way of 'forgeting' about passed failed prophesies. 1914 for example is rarely mentioned by the JW's now. The "governing body" of JW's made up the, "overlapping generations" as a way to gloss over the 1914 doctrine. No Witnesses question it. They give unquestioning obedience to the WT organisation. The "governing body" are vile and extremely manipulative, conniving bunch of charlatans. 2 Timothy 3 :13
@@cubonefan3 It's a difficult one to examine in depth here. If the Elders genuinely believe they are helping jake by disfellowshiping him they may technically not be lying. However, I would say they are lying first and foremost to themselves. ( Similar to war criminals who were on trial who said, "we were just following orders" ) The Elders get their 'orders' from the vile manipulative "governing body" of JW's. The Elders treatment of dissenting voices is inhumane. It breaks a number of points in the declaration of human rights. That declaration is based on basic human dignity. Here's an illustration: A man beats his wife regularly. Each time he does so, he says to her, as she's cowering in fear bruised and battered. "Look what you made me do?" I love you. You know that don't you?" The man in this illustration is a self deluded liar. It's very similar with the Elders who destroy families life's with the cruel unscriptual man made practice of disfellowshiping and shunning.
As a Former Elder and Cult member, you would have convinced me it’s not true. You carried yourself well. “Get out of her my people”. We did it❤️😎💪👊🏿 Love ya Jake
I think of that verse all the time. The rest of it too. So important to live a clear and genuine life best we can guided by true authentic love . I never got how they rationalized lying in the name of spiritual warfare and have lied to courts on record and had people in other countries die for their version of the truth. A lie is a lie and there is no untruth found in our creator, the Source of all life, who doesn’t change.
@@GoldenMystic8 Absolutely Correct. Not only Lying, but all of the Secrecy being done by Watchtower and The Elders as well. Most Rank and File Members, as well as the General Public, do not know of or can respond to; things being done and said behind their backs. They are Oblivious to it all and as such they inadvertently uphold the false facade of Watchtower/Jehovah's Witnesses being a Respectable/Desirable Religion and not the Cult/Business Organization it Truly Is. Everything from Hypocritical Behaviours of the Governing Body Members; Secret ever-changing Elder's Manuals; Crimes committed by Rank and File Members and then those Crimes are covered over and hush-hushed from exposure with Silencing and with Shaming and Blaming Victims of those Crimes into Submission by the Elders; to Ever Present and Unaddressed or Exposed, But Deliberately Hidden Child and Marital and Sexual Abuse. These Secrets are just some of the reasons that Watchtower and Other Cults demand and indoctrinate Members to possess a Complete Cult Loyalty, Cult Conformity, An Us versus Them Social Structure, A Narcissistically Based Superiority Complex, and much more. They exist in a Fantasy-Based Mentality, because to live a Reality-Based Existence, the many Secrets and Lies being Done By and Force-Fed to Jehovah's Witnesses (and unaware of by The General Public), would get Highlighted and Exposed and The Cult would need to be Made Accountable For and/ or Legally Prosecuted, thus calling for Justice and Actual "Truth" promoted and lived. True Personal Freedom lived by All(In Reality not Fantasy).
Im listening to this 1yr later after the event. He was 1 against 3. Jake handled himself amazingly. But deep down after the event; he knew he was going to be disfellowshipped. He didn't have to be there, but chose to. He was going to go our with a bang. His answers to all their reasoning were so much better than anything they said. He kept saying where is that in the bible. This is not a loving arrangement. Jake is a very intelligent man n it came across so correct to me. He was 14 when bsbtized. I was 12. I use to think the wt n awake were inspired like the bible n every word from the gb to the elders was from holy spirit. But hey they babtized me axfew days off 12yrs old n some kids I've heard r as young as 7. Their reasoning (honestly it triggered me) u agreed to the contract. So many of us as kids signed up to the contract of being told the truth. That's the book my parents studied. My dad cancelled all our families life insurance as they were told the end was coming in 1975. My stepmother said an elder would mark the board every week, one week closer to Armageddon. Part of being human is to question things to find truth. I do hope Jake found happiness n new friends as hevlost his family n talked about being suicidal. My respect to u leaving being an elder n having that position of authority. I've known some nice ones over the yrs. Moved around over the yrs. Last 2 congs, honestly horrible elders. Not loving sheperds at all. Wolves in sheep's clothing. Pandemic helped me finally wake up. No love. Heaps like me, saw their was no love. People lost jobs, didn't have money for food, turned to other organisations to help them. My bro helped bros on a remote island to buy rice. All as this organisation does is buy more real estate n tell the flock to pioneer n live a simple life while they build wealth.
I don’t know what you’re using to record, but this is one of the clearest judicial meetings I’ve ever heard. Usually I’m straining to hear what’s being said.
EDIT: Okay apparently my original reply made NO sense because I was responding to a totally different comment. To actually answer your question, the meeting was held over Zoom due to Covid, so it was easy for me to just sneakily have my recording stuff off camera.
Maybe the reason why the audio is so clear is because they may be on zoom rather than in a room where he would have to hide his mobile phone from view.
@@maximuspowell1672 As far as I'm aware "Judicial committee" meetings are all in person none are held via Zoom. The Elders were told by "governing body* they can open kingdom Halls for judicials.
Only just realised..when Daniel wrote of the time when TRUE knowledge was to be abundant...it was about there's recordings..no longer two physical witnesses required..but the many available recordings on social media offer evidence of the goings on in judicial meetings... Imagine the young sister who has been caught up in sexual immorality and in the judicial process before 3 old men..how that appears..not allowed a chaperon to verify the disgusting road some of the questions take..how many times penetrative sex occured..was it enjoyed ..etc etc..just such intimate details.. From the perspective of an outsider this just looks so wrong ..the older men like 3 DIRTY OLD MEN.. It makes sense now when l recall the temple vision Ezekiel had of the older men that he saw in vision masturbating with their backs turned so God wouldn't see them !! Another prophecy fulfilled !
Perhaps maybe it's time you should learn the truth about Jehovah's witnesses lol. Oh wait, you aren't allowed to. Doesn't that concern you at all? When a cult literally tells you that you cannot have free thinking or research facts, that should tell you all you need to know. But week brainwashed people need a hobby I guess
Nothing makes me smile more than when a person takes the single verse someone uses amd reads the rest of the context to show them that they have only used it to serve their agenda
This meeting should have been stopped as soon as suicide was mentioned, it just gos to show how little they care about mental health and the lifes of others.
Yup! You will take the consequences or not. If you do commit suicide, your memory will be treated like crap too. Is this the love of a brother? Is this what Jesus would have of done? Just saying.
Thank u. I'm listening in 1yr later. I picked that up also. These dudes r not therapists of any kind. They r actually contributing to the suicides numbers n don't care.
I came very close to successfully committing suicide at 17, they tried to stop the hospital from sending me for help. When I never went back home, nothing was ever said about what happened to me or where I went....and nobody questioned it
I have to say I was extremely impressed with Jake's presentation. Elders are so single minded, but Jake is very sharp and it sounded in a few spots that what he was saying was actually causing them to think critically about the organization. No small feat. This is a very important video for anyone negatively impacted by Watchtower. Epic. Jake against the Org. He ended up being disfellowshipped, but he's a hero and we cheer for him.
I agree with you. I’m studying the Bible with Jehovah witnesses nearing baptism. My wife is baptized. I’m looking these videos just to know what goes wrong and what the elders do ? These apostates simply *don’t love Jehovah god above all else* Yep there are pedophiles in this religion or any religion and yep it’s weird they cover it up and don’t report it to the police and keep secret databases like in Australian Royal commission in 2015 with 1006 pedophiles since 1950 with 1500 victims. Also watchtower USA are going to court over their database with highest court in USA. Which is weird Then there is this 1914 from 607BCE but Babylon destroyed Jerusalem in 587BC from historical records. I’m not like all these guessing prophecies. I believe in YHWH Jehovah or Yahweh and just Jesus & Jehovah god. I also believe in the last days as I’m 52 and I can see humans hating each other - look 2 Timothy 3, 1-5 I think the governing body are God’s chosen religion nowadays, as all the other Christian religions don’t use God’s name or preach the kingdom of the good news globally like in Matthew said. Psalm 37:38 38 But all the transgressors will be destroyed; The future of wicked people will be cut off. Matthew 24: 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations,and then the end will come. Matthew 24:8-13 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. 9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulationk and will kill you,l and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.m 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many;n 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold.o 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved *ENDURE TO THE END* Do not listen to these apostates It’s not a perfect religion and imperfect men running it. Just worship Jehovah god, preach and teach the Bible and be good to uphold Jehovah’s name. We are in this religion because Jehovah is our father nothing else. Do not let people or politics stumble you.
“The way I was raised was, if you have something important to say that would benefit people, you don’t just hold that in and shut up about it. You talk about it with people.” 👏
As a teacher of God’s Word for over 50 years, you were amazing! I was amazed at how biblically illiterate these elders were at discerning Scripture, taking almost every Scripture out of context. But you had the soundness of mind to not let them off the hook that easily. Their ignorance of God’s Word astounded me. They didn’t even know the basics of hermetically applicable application. Don’t allow this cult to totally shake your faith in a loving Creator. Bless these elders’ hearts. They really believe they are doing God’s will, but yet are far from doing so. It just shows out easy self-deception can come to all of us. After hearing this meeting, it just confirms to me what I always believed about the JWS.
You have a very kind message for Jake but honestly any religion is total self-deception. God does not exist. The sooner the world is rid of all self-delusion called religion the better for everyone.
JWs are misguided. The organization is incapable of saving you. Only the True God who came down from heaven indwelling the human space can redeem His creation, the One who made us. The Way, the truth, the life. We don't have to go through an org to connect with God. You can talk to God directly.
How is it JW organization goes about access to the Father a different way? When in His Word, Jesus, is the only way. No one comes to the Father except by Me. No one. Not an org. This is personal. A personal relationship with God the Father through His Son Jesus Christ. The ordinance of God.
Impressive dude, there is 3 against 1 and you more than held your own. They definitely did not expect you to go all let’s look at that scripture context.
I agree with you. I’m studying the Bible with Jehovah witnesses nearing baptism. My wife is baptized. I’m looking these videos just to know what goes wrong and what the elders do ? These apostates simply *don’t love Jehovah god above all else* Yep there are pedophiles in this religion or any religion and yep it’s weird they cover it up and don’t report it to the police and keep secret databases like in Australian Royal commission in 2015 with 1006 pedophiles since 1950 with 1500 victims. Also watchtower USA are going to court over their database with highest court in USA. Which is weird Then there is this 1914 from 607BCE but Babylon destroyed Jerusalem in 587BC from historical records. I’m not like all these guessing prophecies. I believe in YHWH Jehovah or Yahweh and just Jesus & Jehovah god. I also believe in the last days as I’m 52 and I can see humans hating each other - look 2 Timothy 3, 1-5 I think the governing body are God’s chosen religion nowadays, as all the other Christian religions don’t use God’s name or preach the kingdom of the good news globally like in Matthew said. Psalm 37:38 38 But all the transgressors will be destroyed; The future of wicked people will be cut off. Matthew 24: 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations,and then the end will come. Matthew 24:8-13 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. 9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulationk and will kill you,l and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.m 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many;n 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold.o 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved *ENDURE TO THE END* Do not listen to these apostates It’s not a perfect religion and imperfect men running it. Just worship Jehovah god, preach and teach the Bible and be good to uphold Jehovah’s name. We are in this religion because Jehovah is our father nothing else. Do not let people or politics stumble you.
What bugs me about this, is you’re being as honest, reasonable, and as rational as you can be to get your point across, and they seem to keep disregarding it and bringing up scriptures to fit their own narrative and twisting your words! It’s so discouraging to hear. I’m glad you were brave enough to record this. Great video!
All the JC's I've seen, they desmiss the accused's explaination and keep hammering on with the habitual Scriptures and finally with disfellowship. They just bulldoze right over feelings, fears, truth, etc
The comments these elders are making are so comically stupid and cringe inducing. Can't wait for one of them to wake up one day so you can interview them and have a laugh at it together. It pains me to think that I would have made the same comments myself as a elder.
Worrying about whether a brother has committed a violation so serious that it requires disfellowshipping and shunning may seem like a worthwhile consideration when all is well or maybe even in a future paradise on earth, but in the real world if one is in need or in a place of distress, will one care whether or not the one offering assistance is a Witness in good standing or not? Sorry, but listening to these elders self-righteously grill our friend here all I could think of is these are sad little men.
One of the reasons I did not to become an elder is precisely this. My conscience would not allow me to be a part of mindless robotic heartless tribunals !
Reminds me of the Mormon church. These Judicial Committees are throughout societies, and trickles out from courts, educational, business, right down to families as well. "Every event has a reason, a casual chain of relationships that make it happen; you have to dig deep into that reality, instead of seeing only the surface of things.". Robert Greene Of course this takes courage... These judicial systems only look at the surface, aye, there's the rub.
That was freaking extraordinary how you handled yourself! Holy moly! You were very polite, very articulate and the way you questioned these elders was legendary!
I was 16 & my mother brought me to the Kingdom Hall to 3 elders. They had already made up their minds I was being disfellowshipped but that didn’t stop them asking probing none of their business questions first. Then less than a year later all 3 of the elders got disfellowshipped themselves. I was raped, what they did they did by choice. When I needed support & help the most they just threw me out. I was born into JW & had spent countless hours out in service going door to door & held bible-studies with my cousins. Yeah I went to one meeting like 20 years later & I knew I was done with the lies.
This may not mean much coming from a stranger on the internet, but I’m so sorry about what you had to deal with. That’s horribly abusive and so awful. I’m sending you love ❤
Well it does depend on the jurisdiction and the circumstance. In my jurisdiction you can sign legal contracts as a child with parental permission (as is the case in the analogous baptism). If you entered into a legal contract as a child without parental permission, the contract is voidable at the minor/former minor's discretion. But the wider point is that as a child you do not have the faculties to make a knowing and informed decision to enter a legal contract, so if you could, you'd be in danger of being manipulated into a bad decision and being bound by it. This definitely applies to baptism into JW. Luckily baptism isn't a legal contract, though.
I delivered my letter in April 2019. My act was a political act. I am very proud of my decision. My positivity and my joy which followed this withdrawal destabilized those around me. My joyous emancipation only made their subjugations more evident. I have shown my family and in-laws that fear stifles thinking and stifles the real personality. This family electroshock will have saved my two cherished children. My withdrawal should become a chance for all those around me and not a shame. Gone are the days when we exJWs were silent in our isolation. Today let us be proud to have excluded this company from our life. Let us stand up and speak, bear witness, with a loud voice.
I totally agree! We shall no longer leave quietly. That’s what they want. Speak loud and to as many people will listen THIS IS A CULT! well done, brilliant job. I applaud you 👏🏻
When the elder says, "a parent would give their life for their child " i thought yeah except if they are disfellowshiped in that case they choose their own life.
A parent would give their life for their child. Unless of course that parent was God and had only one SON. Then that God would give his only child, and then expect all the glory and worship to go to HIMSELF, NOT his ONE CHILD/SON who suffered a horrible death while he watched. The SON he did NOT give his life for. I'm in a mood tonight. Maybe facing REALITY for once. I dunno.
One tried to trick me to come to the hall to meet. They started watching my TikTok videos I posted about the missing books. This elder told me I was reading the same thing the Faithful Slaves reads and if I had questions. By this time I had stopped turning in time because it’s not required in scripture. A month later they announced time wasn’t necessary accept for pioneers. I finally had researched enough and told the brother I was ready to talk. I asked for a specific elder to visit with him because I needed to let him know how heartless he was towards me when I almost died in the hospital. All he was concerned about was if I took blood. Once I said no, he zoned out and wasn’t even paying attention when the brother asked him to read a scripture on the shepherding call. Anyway, I told them a lot of stuff isn’t scriptural, like pioneering. He showed me the scripture about the chief agent and said chief agent is pioneers. I told him it’s talking about Jesus! They spent about an hour and a half at my house and then I wrapped it up with, “Where are our donations going? Are they being used to settle these sexual abuse cases? They told me I sound like an apostate. I told them I’m not an apostate. He told me we should meet at the hall next time. I told him there’s only one reason people go in the back with the elders and I’m not going to have people thinking a way of me. I had been told they will try to trick you into a judicial process. I was telling people God’s name is Yahuah and Jesus is Yeshua and showing scriptures from the apocryphal books like Enoch. They met with me again to see if I was fit to do letter writing, and they asked if I accepted God’s name is Jehovah. I also told them the Faithful slave be making inferences that actually come from the missing books. Recently I asked for a shepherding call a month ago. I haven’t heard anything back. Incidentally, I asked them, “If Jehovah is guiding the GB like they say they are, why are they changing up?” Jehovah doesn’t give us a prophetic message and say, “Oops we got new light.” The brother asked me if I was saying the GB was apostates. I told him he said that, not me.
This was one of the best JCs I've heard yet. You handled yourself like a pro. Your comebacks were spot on. You can't reason with them. They talk in circles just like the cult leaders do. There is a mass exodus happening as we speak within the cult. All victims of this cult have you and the hundreds if not thousands of others who have been speaking out against this criminal organization. Keep up the good work! There were so many things they said that I wanted to touch on, but their silence, when you mention the extremely high rate of suicides within the cult spoke volumes.
like I wrote above.....WHAT THE HECK is going on here with "JW's" being here communicating and even signed up for "youtube" ??? I'm just a new Study and I know that "youtube" is NOT something that is normally discouraged especially for the Baptized witnesses. Most are taught against it because they actually don't want us to learn much about their FOUNDER (Charles Taze Russell) and all of the other things that a WISE person SHOULD know about this organization PRIOR to being Baptized into this Religion. I still study with them every chance that I get, however; I've been know sooo much more than the normal "study" because I've ALWAY studies doctrines that were INVENTED my any Governing BODY to avoid Cults. Hummmmm you Baptized and on "youtube" ???? Hummmmm
I left 30 years ago and it still amazes me that they are still saying the same bull. I was a full-time pioneer and I use tell people to question their faith. So it's okay for us to make them them apostates for their religion but don't question us. Such hypocrisy. There is so much to my story that I can't go into right now. This was great to hear. Thank you. Great job.
20:30 - I think this is one of the best analogies I've EVER heard. PERIOD! It makes me so mad that they don't even consider how insightful and applicable the analogy is, they're just focusing on the point that it's different from what watchtower teaches.
At the 49 minute mark when they started talking about disfellowshipping, I was so upset that I needed to step back and take a break. When I came back to it and continued to listen to what they had to say I was so outraged by their circular reasoning that I could barely stand it. You handled yourself so well during this judicial committee and brought up such excellent point. I'm very impressed by the way you conducted yourself. I wouldn't have been able to handle myself nearly as well.
This is BY FAR the very best "committee meeting" I have ever, ever heard, calm, respectful, opinionated yet factual, back and forth yet point across.... Publishing this it will help more people wake up from the grip of the Watchtower and its policies and man made doctrines..
@@cindyarnold8165 Yes maybe, but hes very confident so I dont think so. He made some excellent points, but that wont matter to the elders. if you speak against the governing body, your toast.
Oh, I know. Maybe he just wanted to record it. My heart goes out to anyone losing their family to this cult. I've been out 41 years and will never go back, but it's still an emotional gut punch to not have my family.
@@billsdoris I regret doing the same thing. But the mental pressure of this religion truly brainwashed me into believing that confessing to them = what God needs to see to forgive me. Smh
Even though I’m an exJW and know how this goes, listening to this was so cringeworthy. How do these men sleep at night knowing “helping” people is being Thought Police? How many homeless people have they helped? What diseases have they found a cure for? What social causes have they participated in? No, they think nit picking your free speech is a good use of time. 🤦🏾♀️
Great video, Jake. I envy your calm and measured responses to their ridiculous questions. I'm not sure I could have managed the same - I was outright cursing and yelling through many portions of this 😂. They seem to be misunderstanding, over and over again, that you are not fighting for your right to remain a JW - but your right to your family and friends. I don't know how they think they can claim exclusivity to these things but not understand that they're a cult.
Thank you!! Yeah it’s definitely crazy hearing the cognitive dissonance in action, it’s hard to believe that I would have used the same arguments not so long ago!
It really demonstrated how these guys come in with their agenda. They are company men who must make sure you either stay in line or get kicked out and face being shunned as a consequence. They didn't want to hear any of your points. They only wanted to be the ones telling you things. It wasn't a discussion. It was a formality. This is why I will never attend one. It's all crap.
Cognitive dissonance, we are all guilty of it on some level, it's literally psychologically proven to be a vital part of how we hold our beliefs. Idk why that is, but the cult exploits that. I honestly can't be mad at that part, it's the purposefully ignorant stances where they pick the worst version of something and try to force it to fit.
I understand the need to respect the company men as human beings. I also know as a born in the fear of ‘apostates’ (aka truth tellers) being mean, horrible people. I think it’s fair to say that we can hate the actions of these company men because they are actioning human rights abuses which sometimes lead to suicides, depression, mental disorders, being unfit for earning a living, living lives of lost opportunity (education, careers, friends) and many other things. They are also abusing the trust society at large has placed in them to be granted charitable status and receiving significant financial benefits for bringing benefit to society via religion, all I see is coercive control, witch hunts and kangaroo courts. We all know that the abusive spouse is not always abusive and often very much the opposite, it still makes the abuse in no way acceptable.
I wish I had gotten here a long time ago. I am estranged from Jehovah's Witnesses for over 26 yrs. Recently, maybe 5 yrs ago I thought of returning and so I set out to do what the Bible says about making sure of all things. In my search I come across Raymond Franz's book and read some of it. That compelled me to start really reading the Bible. Well, you can imagine the rest...
Former elder, pioneer, MTS grad and now agnostic atheist here. You are extraordinarily intelligent and talented, Jake. I’ve never been so excited about subbing to an XJW channel since Lloyd. I’ve got a thousand things I could say about this and responses to those three. You did a great job. Let’s just hope some day they realize that they’re in a cult and pursue a better life for themselves. People are waking up every day and walking away and living a better life. Keep up the great work helping other people do that, my friend.
Yep they r. Here I am 1yr after the event. Jake was 3 against 1 n he handled himself just fine. His knowledge n reasoning abilities was astonishing. But when he mentioned suicide those elders should have stopped. I just hope he was ok after that ordeal. I knowchecwouldvhave gone home n cried. He's still only young. The whole ordeal would have triggered him. It triggered me when they went on about what we signed up to n he said I was 14. I was 12 n it angers me. My sibling 14. It's so wrong.
I am a former JW. But I'm not an atheist. God is still head of my life I am a practicing independent Christian. I still love the Lord He is still the love of my life.
Please don’t let go of Jesus Christ even though you got out of the JW cult. Almost all churches have been corrupted at this time of His almost second coming. Read the word and pray for the truth! Jesus Christ is God!
@@romandaigle455but even if you believe in a second coming that doesn't mean you're going to be saved. There is a reason why most religions out here don't help a person get saved. They're giving the wrong message. First off the most important thing is they sit here and make it sound like you can have a relationship with God while in sin. And that's impossible.
I must say you must be the smartest individual I have even encounter in the JW community. This was amazingly done.. hit them with their own text and bible and they didn't have any smart answer to come back. Love how calm and unique your answers to these guys where.. BRAVO..
This is by far the best JC I've heard. You didn't go in trying to wake them up or teach them anything. You answered the questions (when they let you speak) perfectly. The way you explained their cherry-picking scriptures was on point. Anytime I hear them (elders) speak, I'm reminded of how much we didn't use critical thinking skills in the organization. It's terrifying! Again you owned this! 1:35:01 Damn, that question hit hard! All I heard was a fumble 😆
44:07 "The most perfect imperfect organization" : that's like the Witnesses who say that even if it's not the truth, it's the "closest thing to the truth." Never understood this. Either something is the truth or it's not.
No matter how “close” something can get to the real thing it will still be fake. Aspartame will come close but will NEVER be sugar Laminate flooring will come close but will NEVER be wood
@@isamar4073 The JW obsession with mythical perfection. "Most imperfectly perfect organization." So it's perfect because Jehovah is up top, but imperfect because he's using Joe Schmoes like Stephen Lett and Geoffrey Jackson to run it. Doesn't make sense that the creator of the universe would have to resort to that. Sorry Watchtower, the narcissistic self righteousness began with Charles Taze Russell and continues right on down to this gaggle of goobers in Warwick.
I served on many committees while serving as an elder for JW’s. I’ve got to say, this was the longest and most reasonable discussion I’ve seen that a committee has allowed. Usually from my experience, it was just a matter of giving the “bad news” to the publisher with little to no explanation to the disfellowshipped. The elders go directly against the advice of the “Beroeans” who cautioned us to examine the scriptures daily to see if things were really true. We were not allowed to question the authority or decisions of the “governing body.” After many decades in the organization I realized it was not the truth. My friends, please examine the scriptures daily to see if what you are being taught is really truth.
You’re better than me. I would NOT have gone. I love how they’re sharing these scriptures as if they haven’t been hammered into us our whole lives. If someone else leaves their religion for ours, we applaud, praise, and care for them. But if someone finds issue with “the truth”, they’re spiritually and mentally sick. It’s so controlling. No grown man or woman should have to meet with other adults to explain or justify their life choices.
Well done! You held your own in the "three against one meeting." You are now free from their lies, manipulation and control! Keep doing what you are doing...looking forward to your next video.👍
@@hillsongbest3818 He’s in judicial meeting already, of course if you expect and prepare that. What else can he lose? Still very brave, certainly I can’t do something like that.
I applaud your courage and your fortitude. I have never had any connection to the JW cult, but certainly support anyone who questions their indoctrination and overcomes it.
As a former JW…very proud of you. 3 against 1…you handled yourself very well young man. You made some great points and I’m sure these guys were second guessing a lot of the organizations BS. It’s frustrating trying to get a point across to a JW that is all in…it’s like talking to a brick wall. I’m so glad I walked away as teen. I’ve never looked back and couldn’t be happier. Keep doing what you’re doing. 💪🏼
@@sunnie8067 You cannot talk or reason with a robot. When you have been appointed directly from God we are fortunate to have these men amongst us. No I don't believe that last statement either.
It actually made me smile when the "brother" said that some people won't even look into becoming a Witness. That is why knowing what they are getting into is so important.
The best defense is a good offense! If people are warned about the truth of this cult before they even join, a lot less people’s lives will have to be destroyed before realizing. The only kind of “life saving preaching work” I support!
I did not miss a word of this meeting! Jake, you were great, stood your ground, and did not get impatient with the elders, as I did; you were a gentleman, a very intelligent man, you had a calmness about you - I was so proud of you. I faded 10 yrs ago without knowing I was fading! Then I discovered these very informative videos which enlightened me on many subjects. I was DF 30 yrs ago (I am 76 now) and I know the feeling of complete agony and loneliness of having my JW son and his family shun me. I immediately began the process of reinstatement, I could not lose my son! I subscribed to your channel as I love to hear you talk! Of course, thanks to the Theocratic School and your many experiences giving talks! I am proud of what you do and who you are as a person. I wish you the best and keep doing what you are doing.
The elders silence says so much when you make the points you made. The last things you said about the organization being the same as all other high control groups was powerful! I think that will remain with those elders for the rest of their life. The fact that they allowed you to speak without interruption was very surprising to me. I got a little upset when the elder compared you to a dirt spot.. How is comparing you to Satan and dirt loving or going to get you to return? This has to be one of the best secret recorded judicial meetings I've had the pleasure of hearing. Fantastic job and I appreciate everything you said as a gay ex JW. Thanks for being this brave for the rest of us. Much Love Frome Northern California. And happy Pride Month! ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜🏳️🌈
Absolutely amazing and entertaining. I’m sure I’m not the only one that wishes I could articulate and speak with such ease and assurance without getting intimidated and freaking out like they want us to. Thank you very much.
I remember as an elders wife thinking that apostates never seem to return to JWs But people who commit adultery etc do As an apostate now, I see why Freshly “sin” is different because it doesn’t change your mind/beliefs Spiritual “sin” does Seeing the real truth changes EVERYTHING!!! I’d never want to go back there!!!
As a former child-raised member, this was extremely healing and helpful to hear your reasonings and eloquent statements and points. Thank you so much for sharing!!! ❤
I listened to your exciting video from the first second to the last second. This judicial committee will have enabled you to give excellent testimony on the Pharisaic procedures of this fundamentalist cult more clinging to laws and dogmas than to reflection and love. Thank you for your excellent work of awakening which will touch the sensitivity of all JWs who sincerely doubt.
I had to chuckle a few times when you just dropped rock solid logic on them and there was silence from the other end. I've had these conversations with my parents so many times, it gets to the point where you can predict what they'll say almost to a word. You were very well spoken and collected. Im glad there are people like you putting this content out there. Im 38, had doubts for years when I was a teenager and finally left in the mid 2000s. There was barely any exjw content to help people in my position at the time. Waking up was definitely a very long drawn out and painful process without any outside help.
Thank you for sharing this with us! As I listen to these "brothers/elders", I cringe as I hear the words UNITY and ORGANIZATION. It makes me feel that it is NOT ok to have one's own mind, thoughts, beliefs, individuality, as if one cannot have all these things and still follow Christ. You gotta be part of the herd the organization to be worth anything, life even.
I’m very late to this particular party (if you could call it that) and I just have to say, you did such an amazing job speaking with them. I would’ve gotten flustered and confused by their nonsensical reasonings and analogies. So happy that you were able to get this recorded! So eye-opening!
A peek behind the curtain. Chilling. I recommend everyone watch this now before Watch Tower forces it to be taken down. Thank you for this glimpse into the deceptive world of JW
Imagine being subjected to a judicial trial regarding your opinions and how you express them. I'd rather die a thousand Armageddons than live one more day under such draconian rule. Man was born to be free.
@@healingvibrations7845 Not true. There is absolute freedom of belief, opinion and expression in the UK as long as you don't spread or incite hate towards any individual or a group.
This kind of content is the best ex-JW's content that exists. Thank you very much for standing up for yourself while giving the opportunity to peek into the organization's inner workings.
I am so proud of you! I could be your mom. It was so long before that we had someone who was courageous enough to do it! THANK YOU! You made my year. It is extremely interesting how they can't be missled, but, you are. There's so many gems in this. .. Thanks again for the kids who are leaving now and are not aware of the other recorded judicial commetee. . . Etc. . . ! ❣
I can't believe how well this was handled. I've been out 3 months, im not sure yet if they'll try to df me or not.. but, i couldn't even attend the meeting if they did because I wouldn't be able to stay calm with all the lies. And the illustrations that they use in order to make you feel like they are talking to you like a child. And their illustrations are ridiculous. Im 25 and still get treated like a child by them, even the members that I haven't known long go to my mother and say bad things about me, instead of coming to me and speaking to me about their concern with ME. I too have already been pre-shunned by "friends" and family that I thought I was close to.. they are such a narcissistic and manipulative organization, almost all of them trigger negative feelings in me, even the ones considered to be good. They promote such an unloving god, they make "Jehovah" out to be satan, that is not a god of love, rather hatred.. I'm so glad to be out, I just wish I could save my family 😔..
@@chelseaangel2589 could be....I was only being silly but I'm in full agreement with the comment section on the topic. They just kept using Jehovah's Arrangement.
“This is not love, this is cruel.” Perfect. You controlled the conversation. It was your meeting. You owned these moronic Watchtower company men. Brilliant. I’m glad you’re awakened.
@@cubonefan3 Yes..even though we might play our part in fulfillment of prophecy.. its not always with a good end result for us personally . Everyone will make it to paradise !! But some will be the manure.
@@cubonefan3 Though those carrying the unclean (disgusting )expressions to kings are doing Gods bidding..they are referred to as ones that blaspheme@ rev 16:8-11 ...some of whom repent of their activism. The feelings such ones go through and their behaviour resulting from their pains and triggers is very accurately described there ! The road to life is through a CRAMPED GATE and narrow path..one where care and restrictions in our walking and some marks and injuries might occur when grazed getting through that cramped gate.. Sect it was in Jesus's day.. A cult today.. Thst shows it is still SATANS world.. 2 Cor 4:4. Who will break his control ? God has his ways..his means.. His strategy which works.. And accomplishes ALL that's needed..to bring back..restore earth to a paradise... With a body of administration over it that's FULLY QUALIFIED..FULLY TESTED. Social media has made this possible..that too is referred to In scripture..in the language of the time..l believe.. Timed to come with Gog s attack.. The phrase that covers it.. 'Clouds..clouds covering the land ' No longer are wispy powerless individuals quietly being mis treated all over the globe..unknown..not noticeable .. With the world wide Web enabling connectivity..a community that now is cohesive..cam support and come together to work united.. AGAINST those who prefer the restrictions as psalm 2 says..who want to REMOVE the tent cords .
i’m listening to this again. this was absolutely brilliant. you formed the most brilliant arguements that i have ever heard. i would recommend everyone to listen to this over and over, and learn how to defend yourself against such watchtower psychopaths. THANK YOU.
You handled yourself very well. I've been watching several of these secret recordings since waking up earlier this year and I have yet to hear the elder answer straight, direct, reasonable questions with anything other than redirection and their own questions to try to undermine the person in question. No real answers, just regurgitated propaganda. It is genuinely sad. While you did great, I feel like there's no real way to win with them. Their god (the organization) has the final say. I don't know how I'll handle myself if I'm called to committee, or if I'll even go, but it's great to see these recordings. I hope to join the ExJW RUclips community as soon as I'm able. If you ever doubt whether or not you're helping anyone, remember people like me who you and people like you have inspired in NO small way. Plus everyone else who subscribes and hits the like button. Carry on, man. Carry on.
Just become TOTALLY INACTIVE and tell family reason why, tell them you have a PERSONAL PRIVATE CONSCIENCE ISSUE and say NO MORE. let everyone stew in their own thoughts. Remember when Jesus was bullied by the scribes and Pharisees he remained SILENT. JWs will try to discuss the matter, but you MUST STAY SILENT. just keep reiterating it's a PERSONAL PRIVATE CONSCIENCE ISSUE. I was a jw.for 46years, but have been inactive for 3 years and have not been shunned by family and friends. REMEMBER THAT SILENCE IS GOLDEN.
Exactly, don't say more than that but also prepare yourself, in the event of the shunning happening. Start building a new community outside what you have now, make new friends. There are groups in Facebook which can help you. God speed !
Absolutely brilliant. We aren't trying to trip them up, but show them the trap they're in. And I think you did this brilliantly. Several times there was just silence because they couldn't counter what you said. Well done. I'm sorry you're now DFd and truly hope your wife will stay with you,
Thank you so much for this. You were the only reasonable person in this tribunal, and as a Mormon who is headed out, this was like therapy to listen to. Thank you for being brave and for powering through the process.
I wonder how many elders in these judicial committees wish they had the strength to stand up and speak up about something they disagree with instead of cowering to fear of (self appointed/self annointed) man.
I was 18 during my judicial committee and mostly have blocked it out of my memory but oh my god this triggered quite a few of them. Thanks for sharing, these things don’t get talked about enough
The 'truth' is that people's interests often share a zero sum resource, in other words once people understand an issue their reasons for wanting the opposite of each other are clear, not obscured in the unknown. The trick of getting more than your share (often what people desire and/or expect) is limiting the distribution of specific information.
Whenever anyone dares challenge Watchtower the deck is stacked against that person, no matter how you try to reason with them. The elders here seem willing to at least listen but they’re company men doing the bidding of the corporate headquarters.
@@terridovey7648 No they couldn’t. Their replies sounded like double talk. They were struggling to make a case with faulty logic. They don’t realize that they’re under the thumb of the GB.
@@dougobrien4877 That's not a cult? 🤣🤣 Oh my gosh... I really do pray they all wake up. What I heard today was like a business meeting. You do as we say or else! SMH.
@@terridovey7648 Just about anything the GB come up with is from Jehovah. Notwithstanding that they admit to not being spirit directed , not infallible and “roving about” . What is wrong with JW’s . Disowning our our very own beautiful children, withholding life saving blood for young children that has not dedicated themselves to the organization and the way CSA was handled !
@@jimmchemings6140 The things I'm learning about cults is the control issue. The wt is using fear, and a jehovah as a god. It's all about control, narcissistic crap, and money. It makes me sick what the gb is doing to millions of people. They're the modern-day Pharisees.
I need to just say - just went though the whole interview and I have such respect for you. I've been PIMO for 10 years, am currently 21. I spend a lot of time on exjw threads and do see a lot of anger, understandably. I dont harbor anger exactly for how I was raised or the friends I've made. Dissapointment and sadness, yeah, but not anger. Seeing anger from most exjws made me feel that was the only valid way to process leaving,but seeing your genuine respectful attitude and how you went about it was just to refreshing . You are so well spoken, researched thoroughly and maintained politeness during the meeting. I feel exactly the way you do. Thank you SO much for being so honest and brave
You did such an outstanding job in standing your ground with these men. I am so thoroughly impressed with how you so calmly and tactfully handling everything. I'm sorry that you lost your family and friends and that it's been extremely hard for you since being disfellowshiped. I hope that you are proud for standing up for yourself and for what YOU believe and dare to question. As painful as this was for you to go through and also to post I want to say thank you so much for sharing it. I wish you all the best. ✌💜🖖
They are all over the place with their rationale. Not only did you have to make your defense but you even had to help them make their own arguments. Unbelievable. And is there anything else to say after they dilute matters of faith, conscience and morality to a business contract? Enough said. You know what they are all about.
Im up to the 1 hour mark and i thought i would say be4 i forget, how those elders throw ur those disfellowshipping scriptures misapplied them and u had a great comeback by reading at the context 😂😂
Loved this too! It occurred to me that judicial committee's have 3+ elders to reinforce their echo chamber...1 on 1 would result in them being on the receiving end of their own judicial lol
@altworldly as a follower of Christ I was impressed by your understanding of the context of the passages they tried to cite as proofs for their position. In all my years of chatting with JWs that respect for the text as something that ought to correct bad doctrines… it’s not there for any wishing to tow the party line. Or at least they won’t admit it publicly. But as others have said, their silence and/or shifting to another verse and then finally abandoning scripture altogether and moving to business and worldly examples showed their case to be false. They’re blind guides. You pointing to how God continued to care for Adam and Eve and the context of 1 John was well done. Jesus even called Judas “Friend” in the garden of Gethsemane in Matthew 26:50. I’m was intrigued-not having seen any of your other videos-that your mentioned “the Holy Spirit” towards the beginning of your video. I had wondered at that point, although you clarified your agnostic position later if I’m not mistaken, what other teachings of the JWs you had rejected as false, given your knowledge of the Bible ? Specifically whether you recognise the false teachings of the JWs about Jesus and the Holy Spirit? Thanks again for the video.
Wow this is jaw dropping 🤭. A lot of amazing points in this video. 1:49:55 to 1:51:15 left me speechless! 1:44:00 to 1:45:20 great point. Thank you Jesus for guiding my family in the right direction and keeping us away from this ORGANIZATION… God bless you all!
This may sound strange I’ve been inactive for years but have been close to the religion because of my family who are very very active everyone in a leadership role or pioneering. And I wouldn’t let myself look into any of this for some reason up until like 2 weeks ago and I’m very shocked and it’s overwhelming by the amount of info that is out there. Thank you your better man then me I couldn’t do this
You’re not alone! The organization keeps us afraid, sometimes even long after we’ve left. The exJW subreddit is a great place to read other people’s experiences who have been right where you’re at 🙏
@@altworldly I really appreciate your words thank you! Oh I’ll definitely check that out, I love Reddit I didn’t even think to check there 😂and thanks again your doing the lords work out here 😉😉
Thank you for putting this out. It’s helpful to know that we are not alone. It’s amazing how they treat everyone who questions with this same type of disrespect and intimidation. I experienced the same thing 7 years ago. I think your work is important.
OK I just have to say, enjoyed when you mentioned the part where Jesus questioned the leaders of his time, why can’t anyone question the teachings of the leaders in our day? Also, the statement where you said near the end that this was not love whatsoever, it is cruel!! Hats off!! I really hope those elders read each & every comment on here, & they’re true to themselves & have a change of heart. 💜
@@tellbillfader437 I know! I hear you! No harm in dreaming though... I must believe in goodness, giving benefit of the doubt! Ever optimistic, cause if I came out, anyone can! 😌
Man just listened to this. You’re awesome plus the audio quality was great I listen to RUclips while I work and I’m a welder and I was able to hear it nice and clear. It’s so sad that they have to put you on “trial” for not thinking like them. The elders analogies were so terrible and how you disseminated them on the spot dude standing ovation! I hope you find your happiness in life knowing you can think for yourself.
Wow, you didn’t pull any punches. I’m kind of surprised that they let you go on for that long. I always assumed that the first question they would ask is” Do you believe that the GB is Jehovahs faithful and discreet slave dispensing food at the proper time?” Anything but a yes is, “ OK you get DF”. Very impressive and brave especially already knowing the outcome.
I think they let Jake go on for so long as more evidence to his needing to be DFed. I am surprised though at how long this meeting lasted, especially in light of the other meetings they previously had with him
Basically they did at 1:14 just not in the exact words like you said, because they always say it the way you did put it. Better get the elder hauled in the back room as the company man did not say what he has been commanded.
Elder: "Can you remotely think that you have been deceived by apostate thoughts?" Jake: "Is it possible you have been deceived by the Governing Body (= Angel of Light)?"
Well done. I'm an ex JW. So I appreciate this video. As a woman in the organisation I stood up to elders in their horrific treatment of youngsters in the organisation and was constantly reprimanded, admonished and totally humiliated. I did not shut up. I served faithfully, conscientiously and continually as a good mother, housewife and pioneer, even helping start new congregations in the foreign field. I was never ever thanked for the work or for the sacrifices my family made. We all made it out but not without huge losses.
Nafissa Shireen. Exactly. If They ...Know...what is in his ("Apostate")Videos and can Reiterate his messages...🤔🤔; That must mean...They watched them(or Other JWs are watching them)! Isn't that a huge No-No?🤔 Isn't that Hypocrasy on Their Part?🤔 Shouldn't They lose their "Standing" and be "Also Reprimanded and Disfellowshipped For Promoting Apostate Lies"??🤔🤔🤔 (" Pot Calling The Kettle, Black"?🤔...Criticizing another person's straw in their eye, while having a Two By Four in Their Own!🤔🤔👌🙉).
Jake...I am so proud of you. You were calm, articulate and you stayed focused. I loved how you weren't all over the place but stayed focused on the issues of unity and disfellowshipping. You likened what you were doing with what they believe they are achieving with their ministry. Really, how could they fault anything you said? That's why they had to resort to the "contract" issue...ie. "You promised you would follow the rules of the org and now you don't want to." Straight out legalities...nothing to do with the rightness of the rules or whether they are harmful, unethical or unjust. You did an amazing job and I hope many jws including elders get to listen to this recording. I think it's the best I've heard ..and the sound quality was excellent.
They're really not saying anything, are they!? I love how they're trying to get you in a "Gotcha" moment. The answer? "I said what I said! Good day!" 😂 Amazing, Jake!
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
You either love Jehovah and want to live forever or there is nothing to discuss.
I personally have some things to discuss
@@altworldly No, you don't. Worldly rants are not serious "discussion points."
but I literally discuss them. In this video actually.
@@jacobfield4848 If you don’t have a discussion how do you grow as a person how do you educate and learn how do you express How you feel never been a Jw
@@mysticmystic325 After accepting Jehovah then you can indeed grow. You cannot grow while living a lie.
Incidentally, the Elder are liars , because they say the want to help Jake.
They don't want to help, they want to disfellowship him.
The WT organisation is disgusting.
I agree with what you saying and I'm a disfellowshipped brother and the elders were dying to get rid of me and they did.. and because of this cult, I've lost my own mom to this disgusting cult
@@joeyelfather25
If you read the book called 1984 by George Orwell.
It's not about Jehovahs Witnesses of course.
But it very eerily, highlights the way Jehovahs Witnesses have been systematically indoctrinated to think.
I can't explain fully because it will take to long.
But if you have read that book you will know what I mean.
Here's and example.
To Jehovahs Witnesses disfellowshiping is a "loving provision."
When of course there is nothing loving about it.
It's emotional blackmail and it can cause very serious psychological harm.
Some disfellowshiped ones have committed suicide.
Also like in the book 1984 they have a way of 'forgeting' about passed failed prophesies.
1914 for example is rarely mentioned by the JW's now.
The "governing body" of JW's made up the, "overlapping generations" as a way to gloss over the 1914 doctrine.
No Witnesses question it.
They give unquestioning obedience to the WT organisation.
The "governing body" are vile and extremely manipulative, conniving bunch of charlatans.
2 Timothy 3 :13
They are but don't tell them that! They are God ,their God, spokesman. The narcissistic people are too many to count.
Well the elders aren’t really lying because they believe disfellowshipping Jake is helping him…. In a round-about nonsensical way
@@cubonefan3
It's a difficult one to examine in depth here.
If the Elders genuinely believe they are helping jake by disfellowshiping him they may technically not be lying.
However, I would say they are lying first and foremost to themselves.
( Similar to war criminals who were on trial who said, "we were just following orders" )
The Elders get their 'orders' from the vile manipulative "governing body" of JW's.
The Elders treatment of dissenting voices is inhumane.
It breaks a number of points in the declaration of human rights.
That declaration is based on basic human dignity.
Here's an illustration:
A man beats his wife regularly.
Each time he does so,
he says to her, as she's cowering in fear bruised and battered. "Look what you made me do?" I love you. You know that don't you?"
The man in this illustration is a self deluded liar.
It's very similar with the Elders who destroy families life's with the cruel unscriptual man made practice of disfellowshiping and shunning.
As a Former Elder and Cult member, you would have convinced me it’s not true. You carried yourself well. “Get out of her my people”. We did it❤️😎💪👊🏿 Love ya Jake
I think of that verse all the time. The rest of it too. So important to live a clear and genuine life best we can guided by true authentic love . I never got how they rationalized lying in the name of spiritual warfare and have lied to courts on record and had people in other countries die for their version of the truth. A lie is a lie and there is no untruth found in our creator, the Source of all life, who doesn’t change.
@@GoldenMystic8 Very well said. Being in that Cult was torcher.
@@GoldenMystic8 Absolutely Correct.
Not only Lying, but all of the Secrecy being done by Watchtower and The Elders as well.
Most Rank and File Members, as well as the General Public, do not know of or can respond to; things being done and said behind their backs. They are Oblivious to it all and as such they inadvertently uphold the false facade of Watchtower/Jehovah's Witnesses being a Respectable/Desirable Religion and not the Cult/Business Organization it Truly Is.
Everything from Hypocritical Behaviours of the Governing Body Members; Secret ever-changing Elder's Manuals; Crimes committed by Rank and File Members and then those Crimes are covered over and hush-hushed from exposure with Silencing and with Shaming and Blaming Victims of those Crimes into Submission by the Elders; to Ever Present and Unaddressed or Exposed, But Deliberately Hidden Child and Marital and Sexual Abuse.
These Secrets are just some of the reasons that Watchtower and Other Cults demand and indoctrinate Members to possess a Complete Cult Loyalty, Cult Conformity, An Us versus Them Social Structure, A Narcissistically Based Superiority Complex, and much more.
They exist in a Fantasy-Based Mentality, because to live a Reality-Based Existence, the many Secrets and Lies being Done By and Force-Fed to Jehovah's Witnesses (and unaware of by The General Public),
would get Highlighted and Exposed and The Cult would need to be Made Accountable For and/ or Legally Prosecuted, thus calling for Justice and Actual "Truth" promoted and lived. True Personal Freedom lived by All(In Reality not Fantasy).
Congrats on your freedom from Satan's org'S DEATH GRIP
Im listening to this 1yr later after the event. He was 1 against 3. Jake handled himself amazingly. But deep down after the event; he knew he was going to be disfellowshipped. He didn't have to be there, but chose to. He was going to go our with a bang. His answers to all their reasoning were so much better than anything they said. He kept saying where is that in the bible. This is not a loving arrangement.
Jake is a very intelligent man n it came across so correct to me.
He was 14 when bsbtized. I was 12. I use to think the wt n awake were inspired like the bible n every word from the gb to the elders was from holy spirit. But hey they babtized me axfew days off 12yrs old n some kids I've heard r as young as 7.
Their reasoning (honestly it triggered me) u agreed to the contract.
So many of us as kids signed up to the contract of being told the truth. That's the book my parents studied. My dad cancelled all our families life insurance as they were told the end was coming in 1975. My stepmother said an elder would mark the board every week, one week closer to Armageddon.
Part of being human is to question things to find truth.
I do hope Jake found happiness n new friends as hevlost his family n talked about being suicidal.
My respect to u leaving being an elder n having that position of authority.
I've known some nice ones over the yrs. Moved around over the yrs. Last 2 congs, honestly horrible elders. Not loving sheperds at all. Wolves in sheep's clothing.
Pandemic helped me finally wake up. No love.
Heaps like me, saw their was no love. People lost jobs, didn't have money for food, turned to other organisations to help them. My bro helped bros on a remote island to buy rice. All as this organisation does is buy more real estate n tell the flock to pioneer n live a simple life while they build wealth.
I don’t know what you’re using to record, but this is one of the clearest judicial meetings I’ve ever heard. Usually I’m straining to hear what’s being said.
EDIT: Okay apparently my original reply made NO sense because I was responding to a totally different comment.
To actually answer your question, the meeting was held over Zoom due to Covid, so it was easy for me to just sneakily have my recording stuff off camera.
@@altworldly don’t understand
I know right! The audio quality is amazing.
Maybe the reason why the audio is so clear is because they may be on zoom rather than in a room where he would have to hide his mobile phone from view.
@@maximuspowell1672
As far as I'm aware "Judicial committee" meetings are all in person none are held via Zoom.
The Elders were told by "governing body* they can open kingdom Halls for judicials.
It's weird that they think people are going to get the wrong impression of the Witnesses by... Learning the truth about the Witnesses?
Good one!
Only just realised..when Daniel wrote of the time when TRUE knowledge was to be abundant...it was about there's recordings..no longer two physical witnesses required..but the many available recordings on social media offer evidence of the goings on in judicial meetings...
Imagine the young sister who has been caught up in sexual immorality and in the judicial process before 3 old men..how that appears..not allowed a chaperon to verify the disgusting road some of the questions take..how many times penetrative sex occured..was it enjoyed ..etc etc..just such intimate details..
From the perspective of an outsider this just looks so wrong ..the older men like 3 DIRTY OLD MEN..
It makes sense now when l recall the temple vision Ezekiel had of the older men that he saw in vision masturbating with their backs turned so God wouldn't see them !!
Another prophecy fulfilled !
They give you the wrong impression about people who are not witnesses and don’t care because it’s Jehovah smh
Perhaps maybe it's time you should learn the truth about Jehovah's witnesses lol. Oh wait, you aren't allowed to. Doesn't that concern you at all? When a cult literally tells you that you cannot have free thinking or research facts, that should tell you all you need to know. But week brainwashed people need a hobby I guess
Nothing makes me smile more than when a person takes the single verse someone uses amd reads the rest of the context to show them that they have only used it to serve their agenda
This meeting should have been stopped as soon as suicide was mentioned, it just gos to show how little they care about mental health and the lifes of others.
They did not flinch when Jake told them he was suicidal. Who are these heartless unloving people?
Yup! You will take the consequences or not. If you do commit suicide, your memory will be treated like crap too. Is this the love of a brother? Is this what Jesus would have of done? Just saying.
Thank u. I'm listening in 1yr later.
I picked that up also.
These dudes r not therapists of any kind.
They r actually contributing to the suicides numbers n don't care.
My mental health issues r realy bad due to religious tramer but getting better was in for over 20 od yrs
I came very close to successfully committing suicide at 17, they tried to stop the hospital from sending me for help. When I never went back home, nothing was ever said about what happened to me or where I went....and nobody questioned it
Someone please crown this king! I can’t handle how well you dismantled these arguments!!👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I have to say I was extremely impressed with Jake's presentation. Elders are so single minded, but Jake is very sharp and it sounded in a few spots that what he was saying was actually causing them to think critically about the organization. No small feat. This is a very important video for anyone negatively impacted by Watchtower. Epic. Jake against the Org. He ended up being disfellowshipped, but he's a hero and we cheer for him.
I agree with you. I’m studying the Bible with Jehovah witnesses nearing baptism.
My wife is baptized. I’m looking these videos just to know what goes wrong and what the elders do ?
These apostates simply *don’t love Jehovah god above all else* Yep there are pedophiles in this religion or any religion and yep it’s weird they cover it up and don’t report it to the police and keep secret databases like in Australian Royal commission in 2015 with 1006 pedophiles since 1950 with 1500 victims.
Also watchtower USA are going to court over their database with highest court in USA. Which is weird
Then there is this 1914 from 607BCE but Babylon destroyed Jerusalem in 587BC from historical records. I’m not like all these guessing prophecies.
I believe in YHWH Jehovah or Yahweh and just Jesus & Jehovah god.
I also believe in the last days as I’m 52 and I can see humans hating each other - look 2 Timothy 3, 1-5
I think the governing body are God’s chosen religion nowadays, as all the other Christian religions don’t use God’s name or preach the kingdom of the good news globally like in Matthew said.
Psalm 37:38
38 But all the transgressors will be destroyed; The future of wicked people will be cut off.
Matthew 24: 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations,and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:8-13
All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.
9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulationk and will kill you,l and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.m 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many;n 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold.o 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved
*ENDURE TO THE END*
Do not listen to these apostates
It’s not a perfect religion and imperfect men running it. Just worship Jehovah god, preach and teach the Bible and be good to uphold Jehovah’s name. We are in this religion because Jehovah is our father nothing else. Do not let people or politics stumble you.
Yes , brilliant
This may be the best JC recording I’ve heard. So many brilliant points.
“The way I was raised was, if you have something important to say that would benefit people, you don’t just hold that in and shut up about it. You talk about it with people.”
👏
As a teacher of God’s Word for over 50 years, you were amazing! I was amazed at how biblically illiterate these elders were at discerning Scripture, taking almost every Scripture out of context. But you had the soundness of mind to not let them off the hook that easily. Their ignorance of God’s Word astounded me. They didn’t even know the basics of hermetically applicable application. Don’t allow this cult to totally shake your faith in a loving Creator. Bless these elders’ hearts. They really believe they are doing God’s will, but yet are far from doing so. It just shows out easy self-deception can come to all of us. After hearing this meeting, it just confirms to me what I always believed about the JWS.
You have a very kind message for Jake but honestly any religion is total self-deception. God does not exist. The sooner the world is rid of all self-delusion called religion the better for everyone.
JWs are misguided. The organization is incapable of saving you. Only the True God who came down from heaven indwelling the human space can redeem His creation, the One who made us. The Way, the truth, the life. We don't have to go through an org to connect with God. You can talk to God directly.
Jesus Christ is our intercessor. No one comes to the Father but by Jesus.
How is it JW organization goes about access to the Father a different way? When in His Word, Jesus, is the only way. No one comes to the Father except by Me. No one. Not an org. This is personal. A personal relationship with God the Father through His Son Jesus Christ. The ordinance of God.
And what’s your religion?
Impressive dude, there is 3 against 1 and you more than held your own. They definitely did not expect you to go all let’s look at that scripture context.
Agree wholeheartedly. His wife will be a very fortunate women.
Wow you did awesome…you had me looking up scriptures. ☺️
I agree with you. I’m studying the Bible with Jehovah witnesses nearing baptism.
My wife is baptized. I’m looking these videos just to know what goes wrong and what the elders do ?
These apostates simply *don’t love Jehovah god above all else* Yep there are pedophiles in this religion or any religion and yep it’s weird they cover it up and don’t report it to the police and keep secret databases like in Australian Royal commission in 2015 with 1006 pedophiles since 1950 with 1500 victims.
Also watchtower USA are going to court over their database with highest court in USA. Which is weird
Then there is this 1914 from 607BCE but Babylon destroyed Jerusalem in 587BC from historical records. I’m not like all these guessing prophecies.
I believe in YHWH Jehovah or Yahweh and just Jesus & Jehovah god.
I also believe in the last days as I’m 52 and I can see humans hating each other - look 2 Timothy 3, 1-5
I think the governing body are God’s chosen religion nowadays, as all the other Christian religions don’t use God’s name or preach the kingdom of the good news globally like in Matthew said.
Psalm 37:38
38 But all the transgressors will be destroyed; The future of wicked people will be cut off.
Matthew 24: 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations,and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:8-13
All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.
9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulationk and will kill you,l and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.m 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many;n 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold.o 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved
*ENDURE TO THE END*
Do not listen to these apostates
It’s not a perfect religion and imperfect men running it. Just worship Jehovah god, preach and teach the Bible and be good to uphold Jehovah’s name. We are in this religion because Jehovah is our father nothing else. Do not let people or politics stumble you.
What bugs me about this, is you’re being as honest, reasonable, and as rational as you can be to get your point across, and they seem to keep disregarding it and bringing up scriptures to fit their own narrative and twisting your words! It’s so discouraging to hear. I’m glad you were brave enough to record this.
Great video!
All the JC's I've seen, they desmiss the accused's explaination and keep hammering on with the habitual Scriptures and finally with disfellowship. They just bulldoze right over feelings, fears, truth, etc
The comments these elders are making are so comically stupid and cringe inducing. Can't wait for one of them to wake up one day so you can interview them and have a laugh at it together. It pains me to think that I would have made the same comments myself as a elder.
Worrying about whether a brother has committed a violation so serious that it requires disfellowshipping and shunning may seem like a worthwhile consideration when all is well or maybe even in a future paradise on earth, but in the real world if one is in need or in a place of distress, will one care whether or not the one offering assistance is a Witness in good standing or not? Sorry, but listening to these elders self-righteously grill our friend here all I could think of is these are sad little men.
Omg...soooo true! When they opened their mouths..I was saying" Whaaaat the Hell are they talking about"???!!
One of the reasons I did not to become an elder is precisely this. My conscience would not allow me to be a part of mindless robotic heartless tribunals !
Reminds me of the Mormon church. These Judicial Committees are throughout societies, and trickles out from courts, educational, business, right down to families as well. "Every event has a reason, a casual chain of relationships that make it happen; you have to dig deep into that reality, instead of seeing only the surface of things.". Robert Greene Of course this takes courage... These judicial systems only look at the surface, aye, there's the rub.
I got disfellowsh
That was freaking extraordinary how you handled yourself! Holy moly! You were very polite, very articulate and the way you questioned these elders was legendary!
49:33 answer to for the guy that sinned read 2Cor 2:5-7
I was 16 & my mother brought me to the Kingdom Hall to 3 elders. They had already made up their minds I was being disfellowshipped but that didn’t stop them asking probing none of their business questions first. Then less than a year later all 3 of the elders got disfellowshipped themselves. I was raped, what they did they did by choice. When I needed support & help the most they just threw me out. I was born into JW & had spent countless hours out in service going door to door & held bible-studies with my cousins. Yeah I went to one meeting like 20 years later & I knew I was done with the lies.
This may not mean much coming from a stranger on the internet, but I’m so sorry about what you had to deal with. That’s horribly abusive and so awful. I’m sending you love ❤
God loves you, all of us!!!!! What they did was wrong, and God will deal with them. HE is our ONLY judge, not men, or women.
Loved when you asked if you can sign a legal contract at age 14! The awkward pause and the Elder trying to say “it depends on the contract” was great.
🫡💯💯
Well it does depend on the jurisdiction and the circumstance. In my jurisdiction you can sign legal contracts as a child with parental permission (as is the case in the analogous baptism). If you entered into a legal contract as a child without parental permission, the contract is voidable at the minor/former minor's discretion.
But the wider point is that as a child you do not have the faculties to make a knowing and informed decision to enter a legal contract, so if you could, you'd be in danger of being manipulated into a bad decision and being bound by it. This definitely applies to baptism into JW. Luckily baptism isn't a legal contract, though.
I delivered my letter in April 2019. My act was a political act. I am very proud of my decision. My positivity and my joy which followed this withdrawal destabilized those around me. My joyous emancipation only made their subjugations more evident. I have shown my family and in-laws that fear stifles thinking and stifles the real personality. This family electroshock will have saved my two cherished children. My withdrawal should become a chance for all those around me and not a shame. Gone are the days when we exJWs were silent in our isolation. Today let us be proud to have excluded this company from our life. Let us stand up and speak, bear witness, with a loud voice.
I woke up May 4th 2019
Left ASAP
Love that Layman!!
I totally agree! We shall no longer leave quietly. That’s what they want. Speak loud and to as many people will listen THIS IS A CULT! well done, brilliant job. I applaud you 👏🏻
Another great comment Phil. You have a wonderful way of expressing yourself ☺️
I celebrate your joy for being out. Me, a pal out 20 years ago when there was but a few guys doing noise... not longer.
When the elder says, "a parent would give their life for their child " i thought yeah except if they are disfellowshiped in that case they choose their own life.
A parent would give their life for their child. Unless of course that parent was God and had only one SON. Then that God would give his only child, and then expect all the glory and worship to go to HIMSELF, NOT his ONE CHILD/SON who suffered a horrible death while he watched. The SON he did NOT give his life for. I'm in a mood tonight. Maybe facing REALITY for once. I dunno.
AMEN 💯
They have absolutely no self-awareness. only governing body awareness.
Unless...their child needs a blood transfusion to survive.
@@gwenpytka6739
i do not see that you are wrong.
I was D/Fwd for Apostasy. Refused Judicial Committee as I told the elders they have no authority over me.
Nice.
Amen! 🙏
One tried to trick me to come to the hall to meet. They started watching my TikTok videos I posted about the missing books. This elder told me I was reading the same thing the Faithful Slaves reads and if I had questions. By this time I had stopped turning in time because it’s not required in scripture. A month later they announced time wasn’t necessary accept for pioneers. I finally had researched enough and told the brother I was ready to talk. I asked for a specific elder to visit with him because I needed to let him know how heartless he was towards me when I almost died in the hospital. All he was concerned about was if I took blood. Once I said no, he zoned out and wasn’t even paying attention when the brother asked him to read a scripture on the shepherding call. Anyway, I told them a lot of stuff isn’t scriptural, like pioneering. He showed me the scripture about the chief agent and said chief agent is pioneers. I told him it’s talking about Jesus! They spent about an hour and a half at my house and then I wrapped it up with, “Where are our donations going? Are they being used to settle these sexual abuse cases? They told me I sound like an apostate. I told them I’m not an apostate. He told me we should meet at the hall next time. I told him there’s only one reason people go in the back with the elders and I’m not going to have people thinking a way of me. I had been told they will try to trick you into a judicial process. I was telling people God’s name is Yahuah and Jesus is Yeshua and showing scriptures from the apocryphal books like Enoch. They met with me again to see if I was fit to do letter writing, and they asked if I accepted God’s name is Jehovah. I also told them the Faithful slave be making inferences that actually come from the missing books. Recently I asked for a shepherding call a month ago. I haven’t heard anything back. Incidentally, I asked them, “If Jehovah is guiding the GB like they say they are, why are they changing up?” Jehovah doesn’t give us a prophetic message and say, “Oops we got new light.” The brother asked me if I was saying the GB was apostates. I told him he said that, not me.
Amen!!!
Great job , I’ve ceased associating as of Thursday a huge awakening thankfully none of my family were witnesses . They rejoiced having left
As a former southern Baptist with PTSD, listening to you logically crush their arguments was cathartic to me. You were so well spoken and stayed calm.
Above comment.him calm he on recording a✓nd they are not. Deceitful llart he is apostate
This was one of the best JCs I've heard yet. You handled yourself like a pro. Your comebacks were spot on. You can't reason with them. They talk in circles just like the cult leaders do. There is a mass exodus happening as we speak within the cult. All victims of this cult have you and the hundreds if not thousands of others who have been speaking out against this criminal organization. Keep up the good work! There were so many things they said that I wanted to touch on, but their silence, when you mention the extremely high rate of suicides within the cult spoke volumes.
Covid is helping purge religions/cults. The control they had over these people is loosening.
Absolutely 😊
like I wrote above.....WHAT THE HECK is going on here with "JW's" being here communicating and even signed up for "youtube" ??? I'm just a new Study and I know that "youtube" is NOT something that is normally discouraged especially for the Baptized witnesses. Most are taught against it because they actually don't want us to learn much about their FOUNDER (Charles Taze Russell) and all of the other things that a WISE person SHOULD know about this organization PRIOR to being Baptized into this Religion. I still study with them every chance that I get, however; I've been know sooo much more than the normal "study" because I've ALWAY studies doctrines that were INVENTED my any Governing BODY to avoid Cults. Hummmmm you Baptized and on "youtube" ???? Hummmmm
I left 30 years ago and it still amazes me that they are still saying the same bull. I was a full-time pioneer and I use tell people to question their faith. So it's okay for us to make them them apostates for their religion but don't question us. Such hypocrisy. There is so much to my story that I can't go into right now. This was great to hear. Thank you. Great job.
20:30 - I think this is one of the best analogies I've EVER heard. PERIOD!
It makes me so mad that they don't even consider how insightful and applicable the analogy is, they're just focusing on the point that it's different from what watchtower teaches.
It was kind of surreal to hear him repeat that back to me and just...not address it at all!
They’re robots exactly how he described it. They sound like a book.
Don’t the Witless’s realize how many brilliant minds they are losing ?
@@catmeow333 they actually want brilliant minds in the cult. Actually, sleeping minds is what they target
BRAIN LOCK
(Total lock down)
At the 49 minute mark when they started talking about disfellowshipping, I was so upset that I needed to step back and take a break. When I came back to it and continued to listen to what they had to say I was so outraged by their circular reasoning that I could barely stand it. You handled yourself so well during this judicial committee and brought up such excellent point. I'm very impressed by the way you conducted yourself. I wouldn't have been able to handle myself nearly as well.
I agree
This is BY FAR the very best "committee meeting" I have ever, ever heard, calm, respectful, opinionated yet factual, back and forth yet point across.... Publishing this it will help more people wake up from the grip of the Watchtower and its policies and man made doctrines..
I am so sorry you had to go through that. When you said," This isn't love"...that said it all.
He didnt have to go through it, he chose to. I have no idea why anyone would choose to go before those guys.
Maybe he needed closure. I wouldn't go personally, but we're each different in our process of leaving.
@@cindyarnold8165 Yes maybe, but hes very confident so I dont think so. He made some excellent points, but that wont matter to the elders. if you speak against the governing body, your toast.
Oh, I know. Maybe he just wanted to record it. My heart goes out to anyone losing their family to this cult. I've been out 41 years and will never go back, but it's still an emotional gut punch to not have my family.
@@billsdoris I regret doing the same thing. But the mental pressure of this religion truly brainwashed me into believing that confessing to them = what God needs to see to forgive me. Smh
Even though I’m an exJW and know how this goes, listening to this was so cringeworthy. How do these men sleep at night knowing “helping” people is being Thought Police? How many homeless people have they helped? What diseases have they found a cure for? What social causes have they participated in? No, they think nit picking your free speech is a good use of time. 🤦🏾♀️
^ this!
It's because they want their "reward" more than anything else. Therefore the ends justify the means.
Thank you, Jake for sharing the Truth of this False Jehovah Witness. There is Only One True DOCTRINE! THE GOSPEL, THE GOOD NEWS of JESUS CHRIST!
amen
there is no reward for someone not covered in the blood.@@lulubellers
Great video, Jake. I envy your calm and measured responses to their ridiculous questions. I'm not sure I could have managed the same - I was outright cursing and yelling through many portions of this 😂. They seem to be misunderstanding, over and over again, that you are not fighting for your right to remain a JW - but your right to your family and friends. I don't know how they think they can claim exclusivity to these things but not understand that they're a cult.
Thank you!! Yeah it’s definitely crazy hearing the cognitive dissonance in action, it’s hard to believe that I would have used the same arguments not so long ago!
It really demonstrated how these guys come in with their agenda. They are company men who must make sure you either stay in line or get kicked out and face being shunned as a consequence. They didn't want to hear any of your points. They only wanted to be the ones telling you things. It wasn't a discussion. It was a formality. This is why I will never attend one. It's all crap.
Cognitive dissonance, we are all guilty of it on some level, it's literally psychologically proven to be a vital part of how we hold our beliefs. Idk why that is, but the cult exploits that. I honestly can't be mad at that part, it's the purposefully ignorant stances where they pick the worst version of something and try to force it to fit.
Lll ppl
I understand the need to respect the company men as human beings. I also know as a born in the fear of ‘apostates’ (aka truth tellers) being mean, horrible people. I think it’s fair to say that we can hate the actions of these company men because they are actioning human rights abuses which sometimes lead to suicides, depression, mental disorders, being unfit for earning a living, living lives of lost opportunity (education, careers, friends) and many other things. They are also abusing the trust society at large has placed in them to be granted charitable status and receiving significant financial benefits for bringing benefit to society via religion, all I see is coercive control, witch hunts and kangaroo courts. We all know that the abusive spouse is not always abusive and often very much the opposite, it still makes the abuse in no way acceptable.
I wish I had gotten here a long time ago. I am estranged from Jehovah's Witnesses for over 26 yrs. Recently, maybe 5 yrs ago I thought of returning and so I set out to do what the Bible says about making sure of all things. In my search I come across Raymond Franz's book and read some of it. That compelled me to start really reading the Bible. Well, you can imagine the rest...
Former elder, pioneer, MTS grad and now agnostic atheist here. You are extraordinarily intelligent and talented, Jake. I’ve never been so excited about subbing to an XJW channel since Lloyd. I’ve got a thousand things I could say about this and responses to those three. You did a great job. Let’s just hope some day they realize that they’re in a cult and pursue a better life for themselves. People are waking up every day and walking away and living a better life. Keep up the great work helping other people do that, my friend.
Yep they r. Here I am 1yr after the event.
Jake was 3 against 1 n he handled himself just fine. His knowledge n reasoning abilities was astonishing.
But when he mentioned suicide those elders should have stopped.
I just hope he was ok after that ordeal. I knowchecwouldvhave gone home n cried. He's still only young. The whole ordeal would have triggered him.
It triggered me when they went on about what we signed up to n he said I was 14.
I was 12 n it angers me. My sibling 14. It's so wrong.
I am a former JW. But I'm not an atheist. God is still head of my life I am a practicing independent Christian. I still love the Lord He is still the love of my life.
Please don’t let go of Jesus Christ even though you got out of the JW cult. Almost all churches have been corrupted at this time of His almost second coming. Read the word and pray for the truth! Jesus Christ is God!
@@romandaigle455but even if you believe in a second coming that doesn't mean you're going to be saved. There is a reason why most religions out here don't help a person get saved. They're giving the wrong message. First off the most important thing is they sit here and make it sound like you can have a relationship with God while in sin. And that's impossible.
@@romandaigle455do you just stock XJW channels to try to re-indoctrinate people BACK into a religion that gave them trauma?
I must say you must be the smartest individual I have even encounter in the JW community. This was amazingly done.. hit them with their own text and bible and they didn't have any smart answer to come back. Love how calm and unique your answers to these guys where.. BRAVO..
This is by far the best JC I've heard. You didn't go in trying to wake them up or teach them anything. You answered the questions (when they let you speak) perfectly. The way you explained their cherry-picking scriptures was on point. Anytime I hear them (elders) speak, I'm reminded of how much we didn't use critical thinking skills in the organization. It's terrifying! Again you owned this! 1:35:01 Damn, that question hit hard! All I heard was a fumble 😆
44:07 "The most perfect imperfect organization" : that's like the Witnesses who say that even if it's not the truth, it's the "closest thing to the truth." Never understood this. Either something is the truth or it's not.
No matter how “close” something can get to the real thing it will still be fake.
Aspartame will come close but will NEVER be sugar
Laminate flooring will come close but will NEVER be wood
That’s what my brother told me once “ they are the most imperfectly perfect organization “ what a stupid statement indeed
@@isamar4073 The JW obsession with mythical perfection. "Most imperfectly perfect organization." So it's perfect because Jehovah is up top, but imperfect because he's using Joe Schmoes like Stephen Lett and Geoffrey Jackson to run it. Doesn't make sense that the creator of the universe would have to resort to that. Sorry Watchtower, the narcissistic self righteousness began with Charles Taze Russell and continues right on down to this gaggle of goobers in Warwick.
the cleanest dirty shirt? the elder sounded like a politician. It’s sloganeering, that’s all it is.
"Alternative Truth" Yikes :/
I served on many committees while serving as an elder for JW’s. I’ve got to say, this was the longest and most reasonable discussion I’ve seen that a committee has allowed.
Usually from my experience, it was just a matter of giving the “bad news” to the publisher with little to no explanation to the disfellowshipped. The elders go directly against the advice of the “Beroeans” who cautioned us to examine the scriptures daily to see if things were really true. We were not allowed to question the authority or decisions of the “governing body.” After many decades in the organization I realized it was not the truth. My friends, please examine the scriptures daily to see if what you are being taught is really truth.
You’re better than me. I would NOT have gone. I love how they’re sharing these scriptures as if they haven’t been hammered into us our whole lives. If someone else leaves their religion for ours, we applaud, praise, and care for them. But if someone finds issue with “the truth”, they’re spiritually and mentally sick. It’s so controlling. No grown man or woman should have to meet with other adults to explain or justify their life choices.
Well done!!!! Finally!! Someone undergoing a Judicial Committee actually DEFENDING THEMSELVES!!!
Well done! You held your own in the "three against one meeting." You are now free from their lies, manipulation and control! Keep doing what you are doing...looking forward to your next video.👍
A brave guy
@@hillsongbest3818 He’s in judicial meeting already, of course if you expect and prepare that. What else can he lose? Still very brave, certainly I can’t do something like that.
I applaud your courage and your fortitude. I have never had any connection to the JW cult, but certainly support anyone who questions their indoctrination and overcomes it.
As a former JW…very proud of you. 3 against 1…you handled yourself very well young man. You made some great points and I’m sure these guys were second guessing a lot of the organizations BS. It’s frustrating trying to get a point across to a JW that is all in…it’s like talking to a brick wall. I’m so glad I walked away as teen. I’ve never looked back and couldn’t be happier. Keep doing what you’re doing. 💪🏼
"This is not love."
I've left a different faith, but those words hit hard. Thank you for sharing this.
Sheer brilliance. 👏👏
To the elders I know watching this...yes, I'm afraid its true what that quiet voice is whispering to you.
You are in a cult.
Your point about Adam & Eve not being shunned was right on!
I always found that the fact of Jehovah not even shunning Satan is a powerful argument.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I’ve heard that point made before and they reason that Satan being ousted from heaven was him “being disfellowshipped”..lol
@@sunnie8067 You cannot talk or reason with a robot. When you have been appointed directly from God we are fortunate to have these men amongst us.
No I don't believe that last statement either.
Yes, the proof of this is in the book of Job, because Satan actually appears before Jehovah and converses with Him.
You’re a bright young man Jake, and much smarter then those elders. Good job, don’t worry about being disfellowshipped, you got real friends.
It actually made me smile when the "brother" said that some people won't even look into becoming a Witness. That is why knowing what they are getting into is so important.
The best defense is a good offense! If people are warned about the truth of this cult before they even join, a lot less people’s lives will have to be destroyed before realizing.
The only kind of “life saving preaching work” I support!
I did not miss a word of this meeting! Jake, you were great, stood your ground, and did not get impatient with the elders, as I did; you were a gentleman, a very intelligent man, you had a calmness about you - I was so proud of you. I faded 10 yrs ago without knowing I was fading! Then I discovered these very informative videos which enlightened me on many subjects. I was DF 30 yrs ago (I am 76 now) and I know the feeling of complete agony and loneliness of having my JW son and his family shun me. I immediately began the process of reinstatement, I could not lose my son! I subscribed to your channel as I love to hear you talk! Of course, thanks to the Theocratic School and your many experiences giving talks! I am proud of what you do and who you are as a person. I wish you the best and keep doing what you are doing.
So glad you didn't let them " readjust" you❤
The elders silence says so much when you make the points you made. The last things you said about the organization being the same as all other high control groups was powerful! I think that will remain with those elders for the rest of their life. The fact that they allowed you to speak without interruption was very surprising to me. I got a little upset when the elder compared you to a dirt spot.. How is comparing you to Satan and dirt loving or going to get you to return? This has to be one of the best secret recorded judicial meetings I've had the pleasure of hearing. Fantastic job and I appreciate everything you said as a gay ex JW. Thanks for being this brave for the rest of us. Much Love Frome Northern California. And happy Pride Month! ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜🏳️🌈
Dirt spot , gangrene … very Joseph Goebbels like . Shame on them .
Absolutely amazing and entertaining. I’m sure I’m not the only one that wishes I could articulate and speak with such ease and assurance without getting intimidated and freaking out like they want us to. Thank you very much.
I remember as an elders wife thinking that apostates never seem to return to JWs
But people who commit adultery etc do
As an apostate now, I see why
Freshly “sin” is different because it doesn’t change your mind/beliefs
Spiritual “sin” does
Seeing the real truth changes EVERYTHING!!!
I’d never want to go back there!!!
As a former child-raised member, this was extremely healing and helpful to hear your reasonings and eloquent statements and points. Thank you so much for sharing!!! ❤
I listened to your exciting video from the first second to the last second. This judicial committee will have enabled you to give excellent testimony on the Pharisaic procedures of this fundamentalist cult more clinging to laws and dogmas than to reflection and love. Thank you for your excellent work of awakening which will touch the sensitivity of all JWs who sincerely doubt.
I had to chuckle a few times when you just dropped rock solid logic on them and there was silence from the other end. I've had these conversations with my parents so many times, it gets to the point where you can predict what they'll say almost to a word. You were very well spoken and collected. Im glad there are people like you putting this content out there. Im 38, had doubts for years when I was a teenager and finally left in the mid 2000s. There was barely any exjw content to help people in my position at the time. Waking up was definitely a very long drawn out and painful process without any outside help.
Oh my goodnesss 🤣🤣.
"Can you sign a contract legally at the age 14"
Fax
Thank you for sharing this with us! As I listen to these "brothers/elders", I cringe as I hear the words UNITY and ORGANIZATION. It makes me feel that it is NOT ok to have one's own mind, thoughts, beliefs, individuality, as if one cannot have all these things and still follow Christ. You gotta be part of the herd the organization to be worth anything, life even.
I’m very late to this particular party (if you could call it that) and I just have to say, you did such an amazing job speaking with them. I would’ve gotten flustered and confused by their nonsensical reasonings and analogies. So happy that you were able to get this recorded! So eye-opening!
A peek behind the curtain. Chilling. I recommend everyone watch this now before Watch Tower forces it to be taken down. Thank you for this glimpse into the deceptive world of JW
Watchtower highjacks people's emotions, thoughts and actions :/
They have no power over this video. It’s a private recording
Imagine being subjected to a judicial trial regarding your opinions and how you express them. I'd rather die a thousand Armageddons than live one more day under such draconian rule. Man was born to be free.
Well said👍🏾👍🏾
Thought control.
@@jimbobaggans1564 in ireland and uk,you cannot have a view nor opinion which opposes the govt or you get a criminal record and or jail
@@healingvibrations7845 Not true. There is absolute freedom of belief, opinion and expression in the UK as long as you don't spread or incite hate towards any individual or a group.
@@rasklaat2 well what i deem to be free speech including the right to cause offence
This kind of content is the best ex-JW's content that exists. Thank you very much for standing up for yourself while giving the opportunity to peek into the organization's inner workings.
I am so proud of you! I could be your mom. It was so long before that we had someone who was courageous enough to do it! THANK YOU! You made my year.
It is extremely interesting how they can't be missled, but, you are. There's so many gems in this. ..
Thanks again for the kids who are leaving now and are not aware of the other recorded judicial commetee. . . Etc. . . ! ❣
I can't believe how well this was handled. I've been out 3 months, im not sure yet if they'll try to df me or not.. but, i couldn't even attend the meeting if they did because I wouldn't be able to stay calm with all the lies. And the illustrations that they use in order to make you feel like they are talking to you like a child. And their illustrations are ridiculous. Im 25 and still get treated like a child by them, even the members that I haven't known long go to my mother and say bad things about me, instead of coming to me and speaking to me about their concern with ME. I too have already been pre-shunned by "friends" and family that I thought I was close to.. they are such a narcissistic and manipulative organization, almost all of them trigger negative feelings in me, even the ones considered to be good. They promote such an unloving god, they make "Jehovah" out to be satan, that is not a god of love, rather hatred.. I'm so glad to be out, I just wish I could save my family 😔..
“If this is the truth, then why is the same as all the harmful cults and sects we talk about?” Perfect Mike drop moment.
Absolutely stellar performance. If those elders didn't have trouble falling asleep that night, their minds are truly lost.
More to the point their souls are lost. John 3:16-18
GOD DOESN’T HAVE AN ORGANIZATION!
That is my exact thought.
Obviously, since there is no god.
No he doesn't. He has an Arrangement 🤣
@@tbrightideas42 of flowers? 🤔
@@chelseaangel2589 could be....I was only being silly but I'm in full agreement with the comment section on the topic. They just kept using Jehovah's Arrangement.
“This is not love, this is cruel.”
Perfect.
You controlled the conversation. It was your meeting. You owned these moronic Watchtower company men. Brilliant. I’m glad you’re awakened.
You were so comfortable and even tempered. You were so well prepared. This was excellent!!!
Good call that Jesus didn't disfellowship Judas, he also talked to the two thieves being crucified with him
Well Judas needed to kill Jesus in order for Jesus to “die for our sins” lmao
@@cubonefan3 Now I'm hearing strains from "Jesus Christ Superstar" in my head! Ha 😂
Judas literally did the job himself committing suicide..who could do .other than shun him when he was dead ..
@@cubonefan3
Yes..even though we might play our part in fulfillment of prophecy.. its not always with a good end result for us personally .
Everyone will make it to paradise !!
But some will be the manure.
@@cubonefan3
Though those carrying the unclean (disgusting )expressions to kings are doing Gods bidding..they are referred to as ones that blaspheme@ rev 16:8-11
...some of whom repent of their activism.
The feelings such ones go through and their behaviour resulting from their pains and triggers is very accurately described there !
The road to life is through a CRAMPED GATE and narrow path..one where care and restrictions in our walking and some marks and injuries might occur when grazed getting through that cramped gate..
Sect it was in Jesus's day..
A cult today..
Thst shows it is still SATANS world..
2 Cor 4:4.
Who will break his control ?
God has his ways..his means..
His strategy which works..
And accomplishes ALL that's needed..to bring back..restore earth to a paradise...
With a body of administration over it that's FULLY QUALIFIED..FULLY TESTED.
Social media has made this possible..that too is referred to In scripture..in the language of the time..l believe..
Timed to come with Gog s attack..
The phrase that covers it..
'Clouds..clouds covering the land '
No longer are wispy powerless individuals quietly being mis treated all over the globe..unknown..not noticeable ..
With the world wide Web enabling connectivity..a community that now is cohesive..cam support and come together to work united.. AGAINST those who prefer the restrictions as psalm 2 says..who want to REMOVE the tent cords .
i’m listening to this again. this was absolutely brilliant. you formed the most brilliant arguements that i have ever heard. i would recommend everyone to listen to this over and over, and learn how to defend yourself against such watchtower psychopaths. THANK YOU.
You handled yourself very well. I've been watching several of these secret recordings since waking up earlier this year and I have yet to hear the elder answer straight, direct, reasonable questions with anything other than redirection and their own questions to try to undermine the person in question. No real answers, just regurgitated propaganda. It is genuinely sad. While you did great, I feel like there's no real way to win with them. Their god (the organization) has the final say. I don't know how I'll handle myself if I'm called to committee, or if I'll even go, but it's great to see these recordings. I hope to join the ExJW RUclips community as soon as I'm able. If you ever doubt whether or not you're helping anyone, remember people like me who you and people like you have inspired in NO small way. Plus everyone else who subscribes and hits the like button. Carry on, man. Carry on.
Just become TOTALLY INACTIVE and tell family reason why, tell them you have a PERSONAL PRIVATE CONSCIENCE ISSUE and say NO MORE. let everyone stew in their own thoughts. Remember when Jesus was bullied by the scribes and Pharisees he remained SILENT. JWs will try to discuss the matter, but you MUST STAY SILENT. just keep reiterating it's a PERSONAL PRIVATE CONSCIENCE ISSUE. I was a jw.for 46years, but have been inactive for 3 years and have not been shunned by family and friends. REMEMBER THAT SILENCE IS GOLDEN.
Exactly, don't say more than that but also prepare yourself, in the event of the shunning happening. Start building a new community outside what you have now, make new friends. There are groups in Facebook which can help you. God speed !
Absolutely brilliant. We aren't trying to trip them up, but show them the trap they're in. And I think you did this brilliantly. Several times there was just silence because they couldn't counter what you said. Well done. I'm sorry you're now DFd and truly hope your wife will stay with you,
Thank you so much for this. You were the only reasonable person in this tribunal, and as a Mormon who is headed out, this was like therapy to listen to. Thank you for being brave and for powering through the process.
So freaking good. You were calm and pointed out the flaws in their arguments. Very brave and thank you for sharing.
"Spreading false teachings" is what all JWs do- but don't realize. It was ironic to hear them accuse you of it.
I wonder how many elders in these judicial committees wish they had the strength to stand up and speak up about something they disagree with instead of cowering to fear of (self appointed/self annointed) man.
Very, very, few.
They don't remain elders.
I have never heard any elders be this patient before or respectful or sincere in my entire life and I’m a senior citizen
I was 18 during my judicial committee and mostly have blocked it out of my memory but oh my god this triggered quite a few of them. Thanks for sharing, these things don’t get talked about enough
01:50:41 - BOOM! END. OF. STORY! 🔥🔥🔥
30:54 - Excellent point! The truth certainly does divide!
And of course its the org that actively does the dividing. Like Diotrophes.
The 'truth' is that people's interests often share a zero sum resource, in other words once people understand an issue their reasons for wanting the opposite of each other are clear, not obscured in the unknown. The trick of getting more than your share (often what people desire and/or expect) is limiting the distribution of specific information.
Whenever anyone dares challenge Watchtower the deck is stacked against that person, no matter how you try to reason with them. The elders here seem willing to at least listen but they’re company men doing the bidding of the corporate headquarters.
Exactly! And the elders couldn't answer very well about the gb is equated to jehovah.
@@terridovey7648 No they couldn’t. Their replies sounded like double talk. They were struggling to make a case with faulty logic. They don’t realize that they’re under the thumb of the GB.
@@dougobrien4877 That's not a cult? 🤣🤣 Oh my gosh... I really do pray they all wake up. What I heard today was like a business meeting. You do as we say or else! SMH.
@@terridovey7648 Just about anything the GB come up with is from Jehovah. Notwithstanding that they admit to not being spirit directed , not infallible and “roving about” . What is wrong with JW’s . Disowning our our very own beautiful children, withholding life saving blood for young children that has not dedicated themselves to the organization and the way CSA was handled !
@@jimmchemings6140 The things I'm learning about cults is the control issue. The wt is using fear, and a jehovah as a god. It's all about control, narcissistic crap, and money.
It makes me sick what the gb is doing to millions of people. They're the modern-day Pharisees.
I need to just say - just went though the whole interview and I have such respect for you. I've been PIMO for 10 years, am currently 21. I spend a lot of time on exjw threads and do see a lot of anger, understandably. I dont harbor anger exactly for how I was raised or the friends I've made. Dissapointment and sadness, yeah, but not anger. Seeing anger from most exjws made me feel that was the only valid way to process leaving,but seeing your genuine respectful attitude and how you went about it was just to refreshing . You are so well spoken, researched thoroughly and maintained politeness during the meeting. I feel exactly the way you do. Thank you SO much for being so honest and brave
You did such an outstanding job in standing your ground with these men. I am so thoroughly impressed with how you so calmly and tactfully handling everything. I'm sorry that you lost your family and friends and that it's been extremely hard for you since being disfellowshiped. I hope that you are proud for standing up for yourself and for what YOU believe and dare to question. As painful as this was for you to go through and also to post I want to say thank you so much for sharing it. I wish you all the best. ✌💜🖖
The elder’s trying to reason is laughable.
Tbf these elders are awful
They are all over the place with their rationale. Not only did you have to make your defense but you even had to help them make their own arguments. Unbelievable. And is there anything else to say after they dilute matters of faith, conscience and morality to a business contract? Enough said. You know what they are all about.
Im up to the 1 hour mark and i thought i would say be4 i forget, how those elders throw ur those disfellowshipping scriptures misapplied them and u had a great comeback by reading at the context 😂😂
O my gosh, I loved that part! 🤣🤣🤣🤣👏👏👏👏
Oh man, stay tuned lol they tried to pull this in another meeting and it was even more ridiculous
Loved this too! It occurred to me that judicial committee's have 3+ elders to reinforce their echo chamber...1 on 1 would result in them being on the receiving end of their own judicial lol
@altworldly as a follower of Christ I was impressed by your understanding of the context of the passages they tried to cite as proofs for their position. In all my years of chatting with JWs that respect for the text as something that ought to correct bad doctrines… it’s not there for any wishing to tow the party line. Or at least they won’t admit it publicly. But as others have said, their silence and/or shifting to another verse and then finally abandoning scripture altogether and moving to business and worldly examples showed their case to be false. They’re blind guides. You pointing to how God continued to care for Adam and Eve and the context of 1 John was well done. Jesus even called Judas “Friend” in the garden of Gethsemane in Matthew 26:50.
I’m was intrigued-not having seen any of your other videos-that your mentioned “the Holy Spirit” towards the beginning of your video. I had wondered at that point, although you clarified your agnostic position later if I’m not mistaken, what other teachings of the JWs you had rejected as false, given your knowledge of the Bible ? Specifically whether you recognise the false teachings of the JWs about Jesus and the Holy Spirit?
Thanks again for the video.
Wow this is jaw dropping 🤭. A lot of amazing points in this video.
1:49:55 to 1:51:15 left me speechless!
1:44:00 to 1:45:20 great point.
Thank you Jesus for guiding my family in the right direction and keeping us away from this ORGANIZATION…
God bless you all!
This may sound strange I’ve been inactive for years but have been close to the religion because of my family who are very very active everyone in a leadership role or pioneering. And I wouldn’t let myself look into any of this for some reason up until like 2 weeks ago and I’m very shocked and it’s overwhelming by the amount of info that is out there. Thank you your better man then me I couldn’t do this
You’re not alone! The organization keeps us afraid, sometimes even long after we’ve left. The exJW subreddit is a great place to read other people’s experiences who have been right where you’re at 🙏
@@altworldly I really appreciate your words thank you! Oh I’ll definitely check that out, I love Reddit I didn’t even think to check there 😂and thanks again your doing the lords work out here 😉😉
I'm so sorry you went through this. Like you said, you're not alone.
Thank you for putting this out. It’s helpful to know that we are not alone. It’s amazing how they treat everyone who questions with this same type of disrespect and intimidation. I experienced the same thing 7 years ago. I think your work is important.
OK I just have to say, enjoyed when you mentioned the part where Jesus questioned the leaders of his time, why can’t anyone question the teachings of the leaders in our day? Also, the statement where you said near the end that this was not love whatsoever, it is cruel!! Hats off!! I really hope those elders read each & every comment on here, & they’re true to themselves & have a change of heart. 💜
😂🤣
@@tellbillfader437 I know! I hear you! No harm in dreaming though... I must believe in goodness, giving benefit of the doubt! Ever optimistic, cause if I came out, anyone can! 😌
Don't hold your breath.
Good point
Yes, I was also pleased to hear Jake mention this.
You spoke better than me when I had my committee meeting. I just wanted to get the hell out of there.
I am so IMPRESSED with your defense against the Pharisaical tribunal!
Man just listened to this. You’re awesome plus the audio quality was great I listen to RUclips while I work and I’m a welder and I was able to hear it nice and clear. It’s so sad that they have to put you on “trial” for not thinking like them. The elders analogies were so terrible and how you disseminated them on the spot dude standing ovation! I hope you find your happiness in life knowing you can think for yourself.
Wow, you didn’t pull any punches. I’m kind of surprised that they let you go on for that long. I always assumed that the first question they would ask is” Do you believe that the GB is Jehovahs faithful and discreet slave dispensing food at the proper time?” Anything but a yes is, “ OK you get DF”. Very impressive and brave especially already knowing the outcome.
I think they let Jake go on for so long as more evidence to his needing to be DFed.
I am surprised though at how long this meeting lasted, especially in light of the other meetings they previously had with him
Basically they did at 1:14 just not in the exact words like you said, because they always say it the way you did put it. Better get the elder hauled in the back room as the company man did not say what he has been commanded.
Elder: "Can you remotely think that you have been deceived by apostate thoughts?"
Jake: "Is it possible you have been deceived by the Governing Body (= Angel of Light)?"
Powerful
Well done. I'm an ex JW. So I appreciate this video. As a woman in the organisation I stood up to elders in their horrific treatment of youngsters in the organisation and was constantly reprimanded, admonished and totally humiliated. I did not shut up. I served faithfully, conscientiously and continually as a good mother, housewife and pioneer, even helping start new congregations in the foreign field. I was never ever thanked for the work or for the sacrifices my family made. We all made it out but not without huge losses.
thank you for posting and your courage
Excellent comments regarding 1Cor 1:10 to the elders
“They’d have to be looking for a it snd click on it”. Boom !
Nafissa Shireen.
Exactly.
If They ...Know...what is in his ("Apostate")Videos and can Reiterate his messages...🤔🤔; That must mean...They watched them(or Other JWs are watching them)! Isn't that a huge No-No?🤔 Isn't that Hypocrasy on Their Part?🤔 Shouldn't They lose their "Standing" and be "Also Reprimanded and Disfellowshipped For Promoting Apostate Lies"??🤔🤔🤔 (" Pot Calling The Kettle, Black"?🤔...Criticizing another person's straw in their eye, while having a Two By Four in Their Own!🤔🤔👌🙉).
Jake...I am so proud of you. You were calm, articulate and you stayed focused. I loved how you weren't all over the place but stayed focused on the issues of unity and disfellowshipping. You likened what you were doing with what they believe they are achieving with their ministry. Really, how could they fault anything you said? That's why they had to resort to the "contract" issue...ie. "You promised you would follow the rules of the org and now you don't want to." Straight out legalities...nothing to do with the rightness of the rules or whether they are harmful, unethical or unjust. You did an amazing job and I hope many jws including elders get to listen to this recording. I think it's the best I've heard ..and the sound quality was excellent.
They're really not saying anything, are they!? I love how they're trying to get you in a "Gotcha" moment. The answer? "I said what I said! Good day!" 😂 Amazing, Jake!