If Tony Kaye had his way AHX would have never been released. After AHX Kaye later directed a film called "Black Water Transit" that was never released due to him not being satisfied with it. The film had a budget of over 20 million dollars that was wasted because Kaye played the same game. David McKenna wrote the script for the film, Kaye wasn't the sole vision of the movie. Kaye ruined his own career due to his behavior.
@@damo220 My initial comment was poorly written. Richardson wrote the script for Black Water Transit and McKenna wrote the script for AHX. I was basically saying Kaye isn't some auteur whose work has been mistreated, he destroys projects due to his insanity.
Black Water Transit was legally taken from Tony by the producers, actually. He recently regained the rights to the film but not all of it was shot. What I’ve seen of it was pretty entertaining so I’m hopeful
The problem is there can’t ever be a Kaye cut of the film because there literally wasn’t one. From what I’ve heard Ed had to step in and start the editing process because Kaye wasn’t doing anything. Not to mention Kaye's new plan for the ending was to have Derek become a white supremacist again, throwing away the characters entire arc. I am glad things worked out the way they did Kaye spent $100,000 of his own money to take out 35 full-page ads in the Hollywood trade press denouncing Norton and the producer, using quotations from a variety of people from John Lennon to Abraham Lincoln. He attended a meeting at New Line to which (to ease negotiations) he brought a Catholic priest, a Jewish rabbi and a Tibetan monk. When the company offered him an additional eight weeks to re-cut the film, he said he had discovered a new vision and needed a year to remake it, and flew to the Caribbean to have the script rewritten by the Nobel Prize-winning poet Derek Walcott. Finally, when the Directors Guild refused to let him remove his name from the New Line version of the film, he demanded it to be credited to "Humpty Dumpty" instead, and filed a $200 million lawsuit when the company refused. Wow. No wonder they refused. The guy is an asshole.
I can't speak on the kaye-studio drama itself, but with the ending specifically, the film completely undercuts itself and its message. I can't blame kaye for realizing the movie was a house of cards and wanting redo the entire movie, when you see the weak opposition to derek's belief's presented, and the constant screw ups in writing a believable plot and characters motivations.
jeez how arrogant can you be? I love how you think you know how the character arc should be presented and how the movie should end when you didnt have any part in writing the fucking movie youre talking about. Also it would make much more sense and be a more moving picture on society if it ended with derek becoming a white supremacist due to his brother dying. That would do well to explain the existence of racism which is what this movie is all about as opposed to a happy or sad emotional ending. You really have to be an arrogant pos, im sure of it
Virtually his only work. He had one movie I seen that was pretty good. He did some music videos I think, that's it. I'm sure he's blackballed from Hollywood by now.
Does anyone else feel like this is art imitating life, or life imitiating art. A skin head consumed by rage ranting about a film which dicusses the life of a skinhead who is also consumed by rage. Also, I'd say ths guy was a complete nightmare to work with.
Brilliant director, but geez. Chill out, man. If Norton had to come in and do the final editing since Kaye wasn't finishing the work, I think Norton did brilliantly. As another person pointed out-- this movie is a perfect 10. I love Kaye's "Detachment" as well... American History X is a timeless, historically-significant film. Guarantee if it's not yet in the Library of Congress' preserved films (like Do the Right Thing is)... it absolutely will be, someday.
You don’t understand film, or the reason for Kaye’s detachment. This film could have and should have been so much more. Now it’s just bad moralistic propaganda for a broken Woke society of losers who don’t get the point, and never will.
Difficult to debate. I've seen every single movie directed by Tony Kaye. They are all great, amazing, fantastic and his style is easy to spot in each of them. All these said: American History X as it is now, it's the best and most impactful movie I've ever seen in my life. Maybe Norton needed to change things to protect his image or he might have had a different interpretation or view on the script. Either way I'm sure he paid with a bit of his sanity for such a role. The overall outcome is the BEST movie most of you never seen.
I’ve seen the original trailer for the Tony Kaye version of the film. When Edward Norton said it played like a campaign commercial, he wasn’t kidding. Trust me Norton saved this film. If he didn’t step in, this movie would be forgotten about by now. Edward made it timeless
@@FightPal you're crazy. And both edits could of been released .. we've seen this with countless movies. Norton's acting alone would have saved any script that you're saying might of be 'subpar'
Seem like a brat who's will as not been done... he wanted joaquin phoenix from the beginning and changed the story when the studio forced norton on to him... he wanted to go to war and lost... deal with it
So I consider the movie the studios released to be a perfect 10. How would the Kaye version make it better than that? On a different note, I am curious what the original full-on unedited footage of this rant actually said. Ya'll did notice all the mid-sentence cuts, did you not?
Je suis là après le Tabs sur Edward Norton... Il a beau faire un caca nerveux, le film est juste incroyable et j'ai du mal à voir comment il pourrait être meilleur... à mon humble avis, en voyant le style du mec et... son absence totale de la scène hollywoodienne ou mondiale, il n'a surtout pas kiffer que le montage de Norton mette à ce point tout le monde d'accord... Il clame que c'est son film, mais le scénariste, c'est pas Alan Smithee, c'est David Mckenna, également producteur exécutif du flm... oups **SPOILER** C'est peut-être une rumeur, mais il parait qu'il voulait faire replonger Derek dans le monde des Skinheads après le meurtre de Dany... Ellipsant alors tout l'arc narratif de Derek qui sort réellement changé, métamorphosé même de prison... aillant totalement renié son passé et qui est aller jusqu'à tissé une réelle amitié avec le mec qui est au tri du linge et un profond respect pour Sweeney... Son montage à lui aurait rendu tout ce développement caduc et inutile... Ici on a une fin ouverte beaucoup plus profonde, sujette à interprétation et qui prouve surtout que le racisme est partout, que c'est malheureusement un trait humain et pas réservé aux méchants blancs... Parce que oui, le mec qui tue Dany ne le tue que parce qu'il n'est pas de sa couleur de peau, Dany n'aillant rien fait de particulier qui justifie de le plomber dans les toilettes du lycée... En 1 mot comme en 100 : Cheh !
What none of you seem to understand, is that American History X, wasn’t supposed to be the “woke” moralistic propaganda piece Norton made it. If you’ve seen the movie, you’d understand why. The “bad guys” has every right to be angry and bad. Explaining it away with some bullshit in the last 15 minutes in some woke denouement doesn’t change anything, but the impact of the film and the reason it was made to begin with.
What utter shit. As a former skinhead the film is bang on showing the hypocrisy and lies of the supposed cause. It’s all bollocks, and hate is not the way 👍🏻
@@DopamineOverload That it isn't enough for a fucking nazi to have his feelings and dignity hurt to make him responsible and healthy member of society. People like that need deprogramming, not just Black friend, to defeat their own rotten minds fully. And, since there is no such reeducation in place, Nazis won't be defeated, they are gonna grow again, like weeds in the Garden with roots intact.
Nah bro. he had every right to be pissed off. That was his film and the studios messed with it. How would you feel if you created something only to be told by others to change it because they don't like it.
@@randomrealistictone2231 Apparently he was an eccentric guy and the film he was making was becoming shit. Norton took it over and saved it. When you're handed millions of dollars from financiers you answer to them.
Judging by how passionate his anger still is i think we can assume they really did a number on him. Dude came in under budget and delivered a great job and they just stole his work and denied him his rights as a artist. Your art is your baby, this dude was hurt.
@@user-zv9um9pb6wi first saw the movie in 2004 after hearing my friends talk about it all the time in school. I watched it and thought it was terrible. I did some searching around to see what people thought of it and came across the stories how even the director himself wanted to disown it which made sense. All these years later I don't see what others see in it. It feels unfinished and disjointed.
You’re only presenting one side here. He was also way behind and missed several deadlines to compete his cut. The studio lost confidence that he had a real plan.
I've been across people like him. If you have that much energy and effort to rant and rage about entitlement and/or a self-professed injustice, you likely didn't have that effort and energy to begin with in actually getting the assigned work done and provided the results you were asked of. The fact that when it becomes personal you finally invest the energy and do something, is really sad.
He’s the writer, and Norton rearranged the script and had Kaye’s original version tossed because at the time he had some clout from his Oscar, and then used it so much rearranging others as well and this is the reason he became problematic in Hollywood and wasn’t getting work anymore. The stories you’re hearing about kaye is to no wonder he was ranting. He deserves too. It was his vision and along came a snobby actor, who made the decision through his status to rearrange a script.
@@therealgraffitimouth He wasn't the writer, the film was written by David McKenna who is friends with Norton. Kaye directed the film and the film was nearly unreleased because Kaye because is insane.
The original ending of the clip shows Tony Kaye standing in front of a bathroom mirror and shaving his head.
A year later I’m here to tell you this comment is underrated
He seems like he had a good time making the film
lol dude your comment killed me.
Fair play to the man standing by his principles if he wanted his name removed. Funky energy though …
0:21 When the cocaine destroys your body for the worse.
TAH EGGEHHTT!
So how coked up did Tony get for this performance?
Yes.
Release the Kaye cut!
Workprint of his cut exists on the internet. Judging by comparison, Norton's cut is better.
If Tony Kaye had his way AHX would have never been released. After AHX Kaye later directed a film called "Black Water Transit" that was never released due to him not being satisfied with it. The film had a budget of over 20 million dollars that was wasted because Kaye played the same game. David McKenna wrote the script for the film, Kaye wasn't the sole vision of the movie. Kaye ruined his own career due to his behavior.
Wasn’t it a Doug Richardson script?
@@damo220 My initial comment was poorly written. Richardson wrote the script for Black Water Transit and McKenna wrote the script for AHX. I was basically saying Kaye isn't some auteur whose work has been mistreated, he destroys projects due to his insanity.
Black Water Transit was legally taken from Tony by the producers, actually. He recently regained the rights to the film but not all of it was shot. What I’ve seen of it was pretty entertaining so I’m hopeful
@@BugsHaveProtein I saw the Script when Sam Bayer was in pre production for the film before he left/ got fire
It was really good!
All the king's horses and all the kings men, couldn't get tony kaye's shit together again. 🤣
Is this a sly reference to the pseudonym he picked, that the DGA wouldn't let him use?
@@thomasmacisaac1503 Yes! 😅
The problem is there can’t ever be a Kaye cut of the film because there literally wasn’t one.
From what I’ve heard Ed had to step in and start the editing process because Kaye wasn’t doing anything. Not to mention Kaye's new plan for the ending was to have Derek become a white supremacist again, throwing away the characters entire arc. I am glad things worked out the way they did
Kaye spent $100,000 of his own money to take out 35 full-page ads in the Hollywood trade press denouncing Norton and the producer, using quotations from a variety of people from John Lennon to Abraham Lincoln. He attended a meeting at New Line to which (to ease negotiations) he brought a Catholic priest, a Jewish rabbi and a Tibetan monk. When the company offered him an additional eight weeks to re-cut the film, he said he had discovered a new vision and needed a year to remake it, and flew to the Caribbean to have the script rewritten by the Nobel Prize-winning poet Derek Walcott. Finally, when the Directors Guild refused to let him remove his name from the New Line version of the film, he demanded it to be credited to "Humpty Dumpty" instead, and filed a $200 million lawsuit when the company refused.
Wow. No wonder they refused. The guy is an asshole.
Imagine being so bad at your job, that you throw a hissy fit when your actors have to fix your work.
and the movie sucked!!!!!!
I can't speak on the kaye-studio drama itself, but with the ending specifically, the film completely undercuts itself and its message. I can't blame kaye for realizing the movie was a house of cards and wanting redo the entire movie, when you see the weak opposition to derek's belief's presented, and the constant screw ups in writing a believable plot and characters motivations.
jeez how arrogant can you be? I love how you think you know how the character arc should be presented and how the movie should end when you didnt have any part in writing the fucking movie youre talking about. Also it would make much more sense and be a more moving picture on society if it ended with derek becoming a white supremacist due to his brother dying. That would do well to explain the existence of racism which is what this movie is all about as opposed to a happy or sad emotional ending. You really have to be an arrogant pos, im sure of it
Don't forget about him bringing a camel on set and insisting on being spoken to only through the camel
It's funny, knowing what we know now, the first half of the movie is the best part.
he should just release it himself under a rogue name. hes prob got a copy of it
British Paul Dano
Just more better looking
Probably don’t cry about your best work
it's not his anymore, it's the studios and edwards now, but i guess you got to let the general audience get what they want.
Virtually his only work. He had one movie I seen that was pretty good. He did some music videos I think, that's it. I'm sure he's blackballed from Hollywood by now.
Detachments better
Whats the music in the background called?
Original Sound track of "Amercian History X"
this is the main theme
The film is a masterpiece now. Thank god Edward Norton did
Lol
Shouldve asked the directors guild of Great Britain. Jeeeeeeze, calm down "mate"
either he was upset about being mentioned or he's Pist about not getting partial credit
I think the movie ending is better than the ending the director wanted. I can see why others feel differently.
my goodness
Where is this from?
This guy seems like a lunatic
Most likely he powdered his nose.
he doesn’t use any drugs or drink. that’s pure pain, passion and activism
@@peaklife8047He was confirmed to be using coke during production of the movie.
Does anyone else feel like this is art imitating life, or life imitiating art. A skin head consumed by rage ranting about a film which dicusses the life of a skinhead who is also consumed by rage. Also, I'd say ths guy was a complete nightmare to work with.
Skinhead in the physical form? Tony Kaye isn't an actual skinhead lol
Brilliant director, but geez. Chill out, man. If Norton had to come in and do the final editing since Kaye wasn't finishing the work, I think Norton did brilliantly. As another person pointed out-- this movie is a perfect 10. I love Kaye's "Detachment" as well... American History X is a timeless, historically-significant film. Guarantee if it's not yet in the Library of Congress' preserved films (like Do the Right Thing is)... it absolutely will be, someday.
@firstlast no. It doesn’t.
@firstlast to each their own. I think a lot of people really enjoy the film.
You don’t understand film, or the reason for Kaye’s detachment.
This film could have and should have been so much more.
Now it’s just bad moralistic propaganda for a broken Woke society of losers who don’t get the point, and never will.
I loved it in 1998. It’s moralistic Woke propaganda now. And it’s not a good film.
@@jeffridgeway7474 You’re just drinking a different flavor of Kool Aid lol
Difficult to debate. I've seen every single movie directed by Tony Kaye. They are all great, amazing, fantastic and his style is easy to spot in each of them. All these said: American History X as it is now, it's the best and most impactful movie I've ever seen in my life. Maybe Norton needed to change things to protect his image or he might have had a different interpretation or view on the script. Either way I'm sure he paid with a bit of his sanity for such a role. The overall outcome is the BEST movie most of you never seen.
I’ve seen the original trailer for the Tony Kaye version of the film. When Edward Norton said it played like a campaign commercial, he wasn’t kidding. Trust me Norton saved this film. If he didn’t step in, this movie would be forgotten about by now. Edward made it timeless
@@FightPal Shut up.
Are you really trying to pretend American History X isn't known by most everyone?
@@FightPal you're crazy. And both edits could of been released .. we've seen this with countless movies. Norton's acting alone would have saved any script that you're saying might of be 'subpar'
@@BillClay88 "could of"?
Jesus Christ......
I'm on his side regarding the whole issue, but wtf that's no way to handle it.
This ain't it chief 😅
A solid 8 lines preceded this statement
Seem like a brat who's will as not been done... he wanted joaquin phoenix from the beginning and changed the story when the studio forced norton on to him... he wanted to go to war and lost... deal with it
Tony Kaye would have had Edward Norton giving the curb stump to a dude pretending to be Rodney King
So I consider the movie the studios released to be a perfect 10. How would the Kaye version make it better than that?
On a different note, I am curious what the original full-on unedited footage of this rant actually said. Ya'll did notice all the mid-sentence cuts, did you not?
Well the ending was different to begin with, instead of the moralistic propagandistic screed it became.
@@jeffridgeway7474 Propagandistic? Because Derek didn’t become a Nazi again? You sound like the Nazi sympathizers the movie critiques. Touch grass
Is this for real?
after that... the kanye cut
Je suis là après le Tabs sur Edward Norton...
Il a beau faire un caca nerveux, le film est juste incroyable et j'ai du mal à voir comment il pourrait être meilleur... à mon humble avis, en voyant le style du mec et... son absence totale de la scène hollywoodienne ou mondiale, il n'a surtout pas kiffer que le montage de Norton mette à ce point tout le monde d'accord... Il clame que c'est son film, mais le scénariste, c'est pas Alan Smithee, c'est David Mckenna, également producteur exécutif du flm... oups
**SPOILER**
C'est peut-être une rumeur, mais il parait qu'il voulait faire replonger Derek dans le monde des Skinheads après le meurtre de Dany... Ellipsant alors tout l'arc narratif de Derek qui sort réellement changé, métamorphosé même de prison... aillant totalement renié son passé et qui est aller jusqu'à tissé une réelle amitié avec le mec qui est au tri du linge et un profond respect pour Sweeney...
Son montage à lui aurait rendu tout ce développement caduc et inutile...
Ici on a une fin ouverte beaucoup plus profonde, sujette à interprétation et qui prouve surtout que le racisme est partout, que c'est malheureusement un trait humain et pas réservé aux méchants blancs... Parce que oui, le mec qui tue Dany ne le tue que parce qu'il n'est pas de sa couleur de peau, Dany n'aillant rien fait de particulier qui justifie de le plomber dans les toilettes du lycée...
En 1 mot comme en 100 : Cheh !
The movie is good anyway
Who is he talking to? A couple of homeless guys?
What none of you seem to understand, is that American History X, wasn’t supposed to be the “woke” moralistic propaganda piece Norton made it.
If you’ve seen the movie, you’d understand why.
The “bad guys” has every right to be angry and bad.
Explaining it away with some bullshit in the last 15 minutes in some woke denouement doesn’t change anything, but the impact of the film and the reason it was made to begin with.
Please explain the true meaning of what the film was supposed to be, O’ Great One.
I did not know about all of this. Do you have any info on what the message was supposed to be or how it would have been different? Thanks
What utter shit. As a former skinhead the film is bang on showing the hypocrisy and lies of the supposed cause. It’s all bollocks, and hate is not the way 👍🏻
@@DopamineOverload That it isn't enough for a fucking nazi to have his feelings and dignity hurt to make him responsible and healthy member of society. People like that need deprogramming, not just Black friend, to defeat their own rotten minds fully. And, since there is no such reeducation in place, Nazis won't be defeated, they are gonna grow again, like weeds in the Garden with roots intact.
Imagine calling a movie about where the theme is denouncing the horrors and ugliness of bigotry and racism "woke".
Dude needs to chill tf out
Nah bro. he had every right to be pissed off.
That was his film and the studios messed with it. How would you feel if you created something only to be told by others to change it because they don't like it.
@@randomrealistictone2231 Cry more. His original ending sounds like dog shit, the Norton edit is what makes it a 10/10 film.
@@randomrealistictone2231 Apparently he was an eccentric guy and the film he was making was becoming shit. Norton took it over and saved it. When you're handed millions of dollars from financiers you answer to them.
Yeah, it must be tough when the actor is much more talented than you.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Who was the movie based on, because when i got out of prison ppl thought the movie was loosely based on me...
It’s based on you.
@@dylanmitcham1069 Based.. on me.
@@Anw4rr10r is the movie actually based on a real person and true events or is it purely fiction.
I think you might confuse the scat-gay porn movie - i think that one was based on you.
No it wasn’t about you cuz there was no bukakke scene after you got it in the shower
Imagine being a skinhead, racist and gay all in one… 😮
God damn he is a scary looking guy.
Like one of those things from The Descent
Sorry Tony, I'm with Norton on this one...
You're against free speech and stealing jobs?
Judging by how passionate his anger still is i think we can assume they really did a number on him. Dude came in under budget and delivered a great job and they just stole his work and denied him his rights as a artist. Your art is your baby, this dude was hurt.
I think every story has several perspectives. Probably one of the best movies i have ever seen.
@@user-zv9um9pb6wi first saw the movie in 2004 after hearing my friends talk about it all the time in school. I watched it and thought it was terrible. I did some searching around to see what people thought of it and came across the stories how even the director himself wanted to disown it which made sense. All these years later I don't see what others see in it. It feels unfinished and disjointed.
Lmao delivered a great job, he removed so many classic scenes and his cut of the movie was trash in comparison.
Some of it's maybe "marching powder" anger lol
You’re only presenting one side here. He was also way behind and missed several deadlines to compete his cut. The studio lost confidence that he had a real plan.
What a weirdo
"the actor"
I've been across people like him.
If you have that much energy and effort to rant and rage about entitlement and/or a self-professed injustice, you likely didn't have that effort and energy to begin with in actually getting the assigned work done and provided the results you were asked of.
The fact that when it becomes personal you finally invest the energy and do something, is really sad.
He’s the writer, and Norton rearranged the script and had Kaye’s original version tossed because at the time he had some clout from his Oscar, and then used it so much rearranging others as well and this is the reason he became problematic in Hollywood and wasn’t getting work anymore. The stories you’re hearing about kaye is to no wonder he was ranting. He deserves too. It was his vision and along came a snobby actor, who made the decision through his status to rearrange a script.
@@therealgraffitimouth He wasn't the writer, the film was written by David McKenna who is friends with Norton. Kaye directed the film and the film was nearly unreleased because Kaye because is insane.
@@spaceykasem5435 true.
Yeah we all know so much better what went down than the actuall people that where there, don't we?
Nobody knows you
Please don't cry
It's about your art & your creative truth over fame & those who connect with his soul will seek out his work
I hear him.
😂😂