How inaccurate do find keeping pace is inside mountainous terrain where nothing is flat and steps are so abnormal? Ive all but abandoned even trying with over 14 years up here... Granted I'm quite short so I suspect this plays into my steps Vs Terrain..
Yeah it's a lot more challenging mate, I think it's one of those things that come with a lot of practice. Generally you take more paces going up or down hill, and carrying weight. I meant to mention that in my video as it goes.
@@PreparedPathfinder Thanks for the reply. I wasn't trying to get you with an "I gotcha" suggesting your forgot something. I was genuinely wondering ... Hope all is well.. Ivarr
Agreed that paces can vary over terrain. However, I’d view this as another tool to “aid” navigation overall. People are too reliant on tech/GPS. The basic skills of orientating maps, taking accurate bearing (and walking on them), plus pacing are all things people “should” know if they out in more remote areas. Don’t let your hiking/walking trip end in tears if batteries run out. 🤔
Great videos one of the best I have seen on this topic as always spot on. It takes loads and loads of practice, especially over broken terrain. In the mountains it is difficult to count accurately as pace length varies depending on if you are going up or down. Once you have established your average pace on flat ground do the same on steep and broken ground. Then at least you have something that will alow you to make a good estimate if you are unable to do an accurate count. I have a little laminated card attached to my compass one side has my average pace counts and on the other side is Naismiths law set out so I can work out pace time and distance counts. I use that mostly for planning ruclips.net/video/jtHScMa7mgE/видео.html
prefer the counter, have used 65 paces on good ground but extended it to 72 on hilly bad ground. Also, a lot of watches come with an altimeter which benched off a known datum at the start of the track in hilly ground is another piece of info when walking on a bearing. The cloud in the video says it all when things go wrong and you become "tactically misplaced"
For DR land navigation I have used a mix of timings, pacing, and accumulated visual estimates. In your terrain there which is very uneven visual estimates are more accurate than pacing. So I look on my bearing to a point on the ground and estimate the distance. (Everyone can estimate the distance of a football field 100 metres) Having reached that spot I do the same again and add up the distances on my ranger bead (or paracord knots). With very low visibility e.g. fog or snow the distances can be very short. On good terrain I tend to use pacing or timing (pacing is more accurate). In my experience knowing your 100m paces on good terrain without a Bergen is not enough and you need to know the paces with a heavy Bergen, plodding through snow, night etc. I kept a note in my aide memoire.
Good old method of measuring the distance that every outdoor enthusiast should know. It can be really useful if you have to hike without a GPS. Thanks for the video!
Trusting a mechanical click odometer ? Most I've seen will miscount via mechanical malfunctions. Beads are very reliable,quiet and tactile for low visibility use.
If you get a tally counter,keep it dry.I had one fail on me in torrential rain.The clicker was still audible,but the counter dial didnt move,giving a 0000 reading.
If your climbing with standard 50mtr ropes and you are with a buddy I've used the rope to safely walk out on a bearing. This can be critical if your in thick white out conditions trying to come of a known mountian top trying to find a way down from a ridge for example.
Finding how many paces you take to walk 100 metres is key to the time/distance calculation. I was taught to walk 100 metres and count the amount of paces. However experience has taught me to extend the distance to around 500 metres. Then you can get a more accurate average number. Then you could do the same exercise with a pack, then uphill and then down hill. This will give you a comprehensive set of figures to work from (remember when the DS on Navex would deduct points by missing a checkpoint by 10, 20 or 30 metres!!).
I'm curious about how soldiers could navigate through a dense jungle without GPS (kind of like in the movie "Predator"). They can't do terrain association or resection with a compass because of the trees, they can't really follow a straight line because of the too numerous obstacles, and counting paces is certainly way too approximative for long distances. If they are distracted from following their planed direction (ex: ambush), I don't understand how they could find again their position on the map... I don't get it, is there a trick? How did Arnold find out how to reach the helicopter?
I use a small counter which attaches to your compass via small hole you drill on the base plate, when holding the compass you can click it with your thumb, made by Silva I think. Might sound a bit fickle but I have found it great over the years, downside is if the compass eventually packs up /bubbles then you need to attach your counter to a new compass. Also use a tally counter like yours, and Naismith was some boy. Good video.
Yes l do, obviously that’s for estimating time, it ends up being more of an average once you’ve spent a lot of time on the hills though, and you’ve worked out your average speeds.
What's your views on using timing rather than pacing? I lose track with all the counting but a stopwatch and knowing how long it takes to walk 100m I find easier. It's worth noting as well to measure your pace over different terrains and going up/down hill. I'm 64/65 on a flat and 94 uphill over 100m. Also how do you fold your mapinto the Ortleib case? Bought one after seeing one of your video's a while back and it's great. I connect it onto a chest rig and slide it between my chest and chest rig when not in use.
I prefer to blunder about in the fog
Plenty of people seem to be happy doing that 😂
I find that just the act of counting paces takes my mind off bugs, pain, and other unpleasant things
How inaccurate do find keeping pace is inside mountainous terrain where nothing is flat and steps are so abnormal? Ive all but abandoned even trying with over 14 years up here... Granted I'm quite short so I suspect this plays into my steps Vs Terrain..
Yeah it's a lot more challenging mate, I think it's one of those things that come with a lot of practice. Generally you take more paces going up or down hill, and carrying weight. I meant to mention that in my video as it goes.
@@PreparedPathfinder Thanks for the reply. I wasn't trying to get you with an "I gotcha" suggesting your forgot something. I was genuinely wondering ... Hope all is well.. Ivarr
@@Ivarr.Bergmann.Alaska no you just reminded me of something l meant to mention, cheers 👍
Agreed that paces can vary over terrain. However, I’d view this as another tool to “aid” navigation overall. People are too reliant on tech/GPS. The basic skills of orientating maps, taking accurate bearing (and walking on them), plus pacing are all things people “should” know if they out in more remote areas. Don’t let your hiking/walking trip end in tears if batteries run out. 🤔
Great videos one of the best I have seen on this topic as always spot on. It takes loads and loads of practice, especially over broken terrain. In the mountains it is difficult to count accurately as pace length varies depending on if you are going up or down.
Once you have established your average pace on flat ground do the same on steep and broken ground.
Then at least you have something that will alow you to make a good estimate if you are unable to do an accurate count.
I have a little laminated card attached to my compass one side has my average pace counts and on the other side is Naismiths law set out so I can work out pace time and distance counts. I use that mostly for planning
ruclips.net/video/jtHScMa7mgE/видео.html
Smart simple alternative to ranger beads
It’s definitely easier to use than Ranger Beads.
prefer the counter, have used 65 paces on good ground but extended it to 72 on hilly bad ground. Also, a lot of watches come with an altimeter which benched off a known datum at the start of the track in hilly ground is another piece of info when walking on a bearing. The cloud in the video says it all when things go wrong and you become "tactically misplaced"
For DR land navigation I have used a mix of timings, pacing, and accumulated visual estimates. In your terrain there which is very uneven visual estimates are more accurate than pacing. So I look on my bearing to a point on the ground and estimate the distance. (Everyone can estimate the distance of a football field 100 metres) Having reached that spot I do the same again and add up the distances on my ranger bead (or paracord knots). With very low visibility e.g. fog or snow the distances can be very short. On good terrain I tend to use pacing or timing (pacing is more accurate). In my experience knowing your 100m paces on good terrain without a Bergen is not enough and you need to know the paces with a heavy Bergen, plodding through snow, night etc. I kept a note in my aide memoire.
Good old method of measuring the distance that every outdoor enthusiast should know. It can be really useful if you have to hike without a GPS. Thanks for the video!
Trusting a mechanical click odometer ? Most I've seen will miscount via mechanical malfunctions. Beads are very reliable,quiet and tactile for low visibility use.
I’ve never had a problem with one in over 30 years of use.
Good stuff. I don’t like Ranger beads either for the same reason. Situation dependent I mostly just log notes down in a field pad with tic marks.
Good idea with the tally counter. I've had multiple beads just break apart while walking.
Nate
If you get a tally counter,keep it dry.I had one fail on me in torrential rain.The clicker was still audible,but the counter dial didnt move,giving a 0000 reading.
If your climbing with standard 50mtr ropes and you are with a buddy I've used the rope to safely walk out on a bearing. This can be critical if your in thick white out conditions trying to come of a known mountian top trying to find a way down from a ridge for example.
Finding how many paces you take to walk 100 metres is key to the time/distance calculation.
I was taught to walk 100 metres and count the amount of paces. However experience has taught me to extend the distance to around 500 metres. Then you can get a more accurate average number.
Then you could do the same exercise with a pack, then uphill and then down hill. This will give you a comprehensive set of figures to work from (remember when the DS on Navex would deduct points by missing a checkpoint by 10, 20 or 30 metres!!).
Some cord stoppers on a piece of para cord attached with carabiner to whatever i have on me(Backpack, Smock or Chestrig..)
Just been teaching this today to clients in the mountains. Great skill to have in the box!!
Absolutely mate.
Really helpful, thx ❤
I'm curious about how soldiers could navigate through a dense jungle without GPS (kind of like in the movie "Predator"). They can't do terrain association or resection with a compass because of the trees, they can't really follow a straight line because of the too numerous obstacles, and counting paces is certainly way too approximative for long distances. If they are distracted from following their planed direction (ex: ambush), I don't understand how they could find again their position on the map... I don't get it, is there a trick? How did Arnold find out how to reach the helicopter?
Pacings and bearings, very short legs. Slow movement, recces.
Great - thank you for sharing. Stay safe. ATB. Nigel
I use a small counter which attaches to your compass via small hole you drill on the base plate, when holding the compass you can click it with your thumb, made by Silva I think. Might sound a bit fickle but I have found it great over the years, downside is if the compass eventually packs up /bubbles then you need to attach your counter to a new compass. Also use a tally counter like yours, and Naismith was some boy. Good video.
Do you ever use Naismiths rule? I used to teach it to recruits till I was told it was wasting time.
Yes l do, obviously that’s for estimating time, it ends up being more of an average once you’ve spent a lot of time on the hills though, and you’ve worked out your average speeds.
What's your views on using timing rather than pacing? I lose track with all the counting but a stopwatch and knowing how long it takes to walk 100m I find easier. It's worth noting as well to measure your pace over different terrains and going up/down hill. I'm 64/65 on a flat and 94 uphill over 100m. Also how do you fold your mapinto the Ortleib case? Bought one after seeing one of your video's a while back and it's great. I connect it onto a chest rig and slide it between my chest and chest rig when not in use.
Timing is good, but it’s better when combined with pacing.
Might sound silly. This method of pacing and bearing can be used to skirt around obstacles back to your original bearing.🥺
Absolutely! 👍
what is with that emoji ahahaha
@@ikaros4203 l thought the same tbh 😂
@@ikaros4203 it's the one with the face that looks like he knows it's a silly question.😁
That one says thanks for asking👌
Yet another cracking video buddy😎👍
Cheers mate 👍