In Defense of Holy Tradition w/Hank Hanegraaff, Francis Chan & Metropolitan Yohan (Hank Unplugged)
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- Опубликовано: 8 дек 2020
- Holy Tradition is the fourth and final episode in this four part series of round table conversations. Tradition has become a dirty word to many Christians in the West, often pitting Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition against one another. However, if Holy Tradition is Scripture rightly understood then there is no need for them to be viewed in conflict. Hank Hanegraaff believes that the West would do well to recapture the spiritual power of Holy Tradition that has provided Christians throughout history with the spiritual practices meant to bring us closer to Christ. As Yaroslav Pelikan so eloquently wrote in The Vindication of Tradition," Tradition is the living faith of the dead; traditionalism is the dead faith of the living.” Simply put, Tradition is severely misunderstood by many, so Hank Hanegraaff, Francis Chan, and Metropolitan Yohan discuss Holy Tradition and Francis Chan ends this discussion series with a plea for Christians to dialogue in a spirit of brotherly love, humility, and unity.
Topics discussed include: Are Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition in conflict? (0:00); in defense of Holy Tradition-“Tradition is the living faith of the dead, traditionalism is the dead faith of the living” (5:35); how can we understand Holy Traditions? (11:30); why are Holy Traditions important? (15:00); the biblical practice of Confession (20:35); church is not about hearing a great sermon it is about worshiping God-the Sacramental life is a life of worshiping God (23:30); Francis Chan makes a plea for Christians to dialogue in a spirit of brotherly love, humility, and unity (28:35).
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#hankhanegraaff #bibleanswerman #holytradition
Every time I listen to Hank, I realize just how much I don’t know, but am blown away by how much I can learn in just a matter of a few minutes. 😄. It’s good to be Orthodox!
Hank is such a gracious host. He could easily have gone another 15 rounds, but exercised near perfect timing in terms of knowing what to say and when to say it. Francis' sincerity is wow. Metropolitan's child like faith is wow. Great conversation, gentlemen!
Metropolitan is a grifter.
Thank you gentlemen for this conversation so humble and thoughtful listening and consideration.
This is an important discussion. I hope you keep it going. Thanks!
loved this series, thank you!
Man... Hank shines in a way these days that he never had 10 years ago. God has clearly had brought him a new peace. It’s contagious.
We should not judge things according to such. Look for example at "born-again" believers. They shine from front to back, yet they are separated and come up with endless heresy.
Yeah he's home!
@@pierreschiffer3180
My dad had a born again experience and because of it says my faith is empty because I'm not born again like he was.
@@prayunceasingly2029 Indeed PU: people have personal experiences and then think they are the pillar of truth, while they all teach differently on so many subjects. To brand such experience as born again is ultimate eisegesis: people put their own meaning into the text of Scripture. The Early Church's exegesis of the words of Jesus regarding being born again always concerns baptism. Jesus says that we are to be born again of water and spirit: you should ask your dad where the water is in his experience...
so YOU say he has POROGRESSED in his journey in Christianity, yes?
I enjoyed that very much- don’t know why it brought tears to my eyes but it did. God bless you all. Amen.
Thank you. This is a much needed conversation. God be with all of you.
You can tell Francis Chan is a man of God 🙏🏽 May God continue leading him!
Yes! May he lead him away from false teaching and back to the scriptures
Yes hopefully he will come home☦
Man of god that approves Todd White? not focusing very well
@@saulespino2510
Exactly lol the NAR stuff he's gotten into isn't good in my opinion! And he says those NAR guys are brothers in Christ.
Justin Martyr and Hippolytus of Rome both have very detailed descriptions of the liturgy.
Good to know!
ALWAYS ENJOY YOU GUYS...THANKYOU BROTHER HANK..FRANCIS
AND..METROPOLITAN
St Basil the Great has an ancient list of ancient apostolic oral Tradition: making the sign of the cross, praying towards the east, etc.
Where can we find that list?
Praying towards the east? Why?
following the Bishop of Rome as primate
@@glennlanham6309 Your attitude is an example of why the Roman church lost it’s way.
@@prayunceasingly2029 Matthew 24:27 referring to Jesus’ return coming from the east, and numerous other references to the east in Old and New Testaments.
Paul was in Thessaloniki for almost 2 years. Imagine him being your pastor, teaching everything, especially the fullness and fulfillment of the faith. We only have 2 short letters. Would you be expected to forget everything else? Second, in the 4th century the most aggressive fight against Christ as fully God was abounding . Arius argued that his interpretation showed Jesus wasn't always, nor fully divine. Athanasius' argument was using tradition: "How do we baptize in the Church everywhere? Father, Son and Holy Spirit." This being before there was a canonized Bible. It's good to see a name like Francis humble enough to ask and listen.
For me, coming from a nondenominational Church, where we vaguely had any idea of how the Early Church worshiped, the Traditions of The Church keep The Church on the tracks. Without traditions and guidelines, we can easily run off the rails and begin doing our own thing. We as The Body of Christ, are supposed to be “One “, as Jesus said He and The Father are One.
EO church is not one. There are many disagreements within the EO church just like there is in Protestantism.
Hank is a human and humans make mistakes as Hank has said
Awesome!!!
Haha. “I know you both are very old”... great ending.
God bless these men of faith who are willing to tackle the hard questions in Love ☦️ can't wait for the next episode! Such an exciting time to be an Orthodox believer.
Not sure if Francis has been able to attend a Divine Liturgy (or ideally several), but that was one of the most beneficial things for me in my inquiry into Orthodoxy. Reading and study is important and definitely has it's place but, at least for me, there was no replacement for direct experience of the Life of the Church. A Bible school professor of mine was fond of saying "the knowing is in the doing" and I found that to be very true in learning about Orthodoxy. If you want to understand, pray the prayers, follow the fasts and feasts for the Church, attend the services etc.
What is sad to me is there are not thousands of hits on this and the like. I am “reverting” but so thankful for the “Funvangelicalism” in the 80’s/90’s but divorce and more pressed me to face God in a new understanding. Peace be with all who are rushing past Martin Luther into Church History. 🙏
Wut? Concert and a Ted Talk is not a good tradition for liturgy?? 😂
A really interesting conversation. I have to admit that like Francis I have viewed the Churches that are very “traditional” as only existing through “traditionalism” and devoid of true faith in the Holy Spirit in dwelt sense. I guess born again in living relationship with God.
Now I am inclined to dig a bit deeper. I certainly don’t want to get around “missing a wing” unnecessarily!! 😀
@The Righteousness of God In Christ Jesus The Orthodox Church and early Roman Catholic Church are why we have a Bible. Of course they believe it, but most modern “Christians” are incredibly ignorant of the traditions and teachings of the church fathers, as passed down from the Apostles. That’s a silly thing to say.
@@therighteousnessofgodinchr2530
Rubbish! Catholicism has an extremely high view of scripture.
Loved this. Was so moved and inspired. Can someone tell me what Hank held up for a moment? It was like a prayer rope? He said it was so helpful for his prayer life. I would like to know what it is and how one would use it. Thx!
@lisahooper7578 Yes. Hank was holding up his prayer rope. You can get one at any Orthodox Christian book dealer.
Something I've found helpful is not thinking of Tradition as a separate "thing" from Scripture, but rather Scripture as a part of what's handed down to us (i.e. tradition). However, what's handed down to us is larger than Scripture -- it includes the understanding/interpretive context of what's in scripture (e.g. the understanding of Christ's life, death, and resurrection), certain aspects of things like worship, understanding of the holy mysteries (e.g. the eucharist), etc.
Love hearing this conversation. As someone who converted from evangelical protestant to Orthodoxy, I've had these very conversation during my conversion.
Sacred Traditions have a separate identity from scriptures. It may expound or reinforce biblical truths, but remains a distinct tool to understand our relationship with God. It has always been scriptures and traditions acting in complement (2 Thessalonians 2:15). Faith is incomplete without one or the other. It is when triumphalism, legalism and vanity interfere with our espousal of traditions, that its true intent is misplaced, what the bible rightly decribes as the "tradition of men" (Mark 7:8).
"Peter is the Shepherd of the Universal Church ", ( John Chrysostom). Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink
I think I’m exactly where Francis is at... my heart is for truth, thats what I’m asking God for every day from my knees. When I look at the Protestant church today, (which is all I’ve ever known) what a mess... and this is what’s making me look back.
Same.
Google: Eucharistic miracles in the Catholic church you tube. You need the sacraments for salvation. Im Catholic. I could not imagine my life without Holy mass. You will never get sanctification for salvation in the protestant sect.
@@MariadeJesus-dt4ql idk about “needing” sacraments for salvation but i do believe in communion and I do partake in Passover. Overall I do think the church needs to unify and we need to get back to our roots. God bless you sister. Please pray for the body if believers to unify like I have been 🙏🏽♥️
I was where he is but am now convinced the Orthodox Church is the continuation of the apostolic church (after 3 years of investigation). You need to look into church history to give a proper context to what we are seeing today in the west. All the various heresies going on can be found in history and have been ruled on by the church long before all the schisms started when the church was in unity. I'm sure that many of the truths of Orthodoxy go straight over the head of many born into the Orthodox church but that doesn't detract from the truth that's in front of them. You pray that the penny will drop for them. Many other Orthodox I have met have very deep commitment & a sweet spirit. All churches of whatever flavour have a mix in the congregation.
@@MariadeJesus-dt4ql Where does the Bible record Jesus, Paul, Peter, Luke, James, etc. teaching that sacraments (however defined) are required for salvation? Surely John did not affirm that in his gospel.
Your video about John Macarthur disappeared and I didn't get to see it.
Try One place- or his podcast
I'm praying God brings Francis Chan back home to the Church. He is such a God loving man.
It will all be revealed in the end what was man-made and what was inspired by God.
"For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known." Luke 12:2
What's the 'didakay'? Spelling please & where can I find it?
Hi! It's "Didache," a church service book from the 1st century. It's available online in pdf form for free in many places!
It’s also on youtube
Three men of God from different traditions yet All One in Christ Jesus.
That is impossible. Christ is one and so is the Gospel. Another gospel is man-made and not from God.
@@pierreschiffer3180 all one in Christ Jesus mate.
@@waynepelling5568 That is false, my friend. Read the Early Church: all fathers and saints testify to the same. There is only one Lord and one Gospel and one Church.
Read what she teaches regarding separated churches and their eternal fate. Heresy and separatism leads to damnation for all time. This is not my own idea, my friend.
The Spirit and the Bride say: come Wayne!
@@pierreschiffer3180 thanks mate I know the Scriptures there is only One Lord one Gospel , that has the power unto salvation . .One church .The early church is the model we should emulate .however here we have three men of different denominations acting I essentials unity in non essentials liberty and in all things charity . I do not hear in this clip anything other than the Gospel
@@waynepelling5568 Wrong on all accounts, I believe. Again: these are not my ideas, but all over the Early Church. The Early Church is not the model we should emulate: the Early Church is the Church we are to be part of. Within the Church there is liberty in non-essentials: not outside; not within man-made churches. You write about denominations and you seem to be fine with such: the Early Church was One and rejected eternally any other body of believers or "denominations". Finally, you hear nothing other than the gospel in this video, you write. Wrong: there is only one divine Gospel and many man-made ones: not any message that goes by the name of gospel is actually the Gospel. That is not possible, for the Gospel of Jesus is One, thus when two people come up with two different messages regarding salvation then at least one is presenting a false gospel. Which is not the Gospel. Read Paul and John: the meaning of separatism and heresy is eternal.
These are not my own ideas, but I do believe that this is correct. This is the Early Church: where else would you want to go, Wayne? You can proceed on your own ideas of what the Gospel is or give them up and accept the Gospel from the Church. We cannot be indifferent towards the Gospel, like any gospel is the Gospel or is at least "good enough" or whatever. Jesus brought us one message of salvation and we cannot permit to compose our own based on our own insights: we are to accept His. One Lord and one Gospel.
I do appreciate you honesty, but I also do believe that this kind of indifferentism or relativism towards the Gospel is the reason for His body to dissolve fast over the past decennia.
I think we can all agree the early church sang Oceans 😉 Loved this convo.
how do they make their livings?
YES SIRR!!
The scriptures would exist even if there wasn't any churches, its God's inerrant words his word will never pass away!
“Gods inerrant word” yes
“Would exist (in its current form) with out the church” No, the canon of scripture was decided by ecumenical councils (the church) who were led by the Holy Spirit, and for Protestants was edited by Martin Luther.
@@SemperVeritas.which one do you claim OT or NT?
I think former Pope Benedict the 16th cuts right to the heart of it when he says “the Church’s apostolic tradition consists in this transmission of the goods of salvation which, through the power of the Spirit, makes the Christian community the permanent actualization of the original communion… This permanent actualization of the active presence of the Lord Jesus in his people, brought about by the Holy Spirit and expressed in the church through the apostolic ministry and fraternal communion, is what, in a theological sense, is meant by the term ‘tradition’ “
Please allow/set Portuguese translation and other languages in these videos! They are pretty great and need to be spread.
Subtitles*
Love watching Francis discerning the Church!
Francis is turning catholic! sad
@@saulespino2510
Thanks God!!!
He is following
Jesus established Church.
From St Peter - Pope Francis.
266 Popes and counting!
@@Lezith456 Nope, Peter wasn't Catholic . Nice try though!
@@Lezith456 where does Pachemamma fit in the list?
Al explains:
The statement "Tradition is the living faith of the dead, traditionalism is the dead faith of the living" captures a key distinction between tradition and traditionalism.
Tradition refers to the beliefs, customs, practices, and values that have been passed down from generation to generation within a community or society. It is a living expression of the collective wisdom, experiences, and cultural heritage of those who came before us. Tradition is dynamic and adaptable, evolving over time while retaining its core principles and values. It provides a sense of continuity and identity, connecting individuals to their shared history and shaping their present actions and worldview. In this sense, tradition can be seen as the living faith of the dead, as it is sustained and carried forward by the ongoing participation and belief of the present generation.
On the other hand, traditionalism refers to an attachment or adherence to the forms, rituals, and practices of the past without necessarily understanding or critically examining their underlying meaning or purpose. It is a rigid and dogmatic adherence to traditional beliefs and practices, often resisting change or innovation. Traditionalism can become a stagnant and lifeless repetition of past customs, lacking the vitality and relevance needed to address the challenges and needs of the present. In this sense, traditionalism can be seen as the dead faith of the living, as it clings to the external forms of tradition without engaging with its living spirit.
The statement suggests that while tradition has the capacity to breathe life into the present by guiding and inspiring current generations, traditionalism can become a mere hollow imitation of the past, disconnected from its original context and meaning. It emphasizes the importance of understanding and engaging with tradition in a way that allows it to remain dynamic, meaningful, and responsive to the needs of the present.
The one you call metropolitan is metropolitan of what and made metropolitan by who? Thanks.
K.P. Yohannan (Moran Mor Athanasius Yohan I) is founder of Gospel for Asia and the Metropolitan of Believer’s Eastern Church. www.bec.org/athanasius-yohan/ October 14, 2018, following the two thousand year old tradition of the historical church, the Metropolitan received the ecclesiastical name Moran Mor Athanasius Yohan I. www.bec.org/episcopas-believers-eastern-church-take-up-ecclesiastical-names/
@@BibleAnswerMan Thank you for answering, to clarify my question is he apostolic and canonically connected to the Orthodoxy Church or is he self appointed or related to the church of Saint Thomas?
I am quite surprised that Hank had a Non-Orthodox in Yohan on...Hank, as an Orthodox should know that having any clergy on should be Orthodox. By having Yohan on as the "subject matter expert" clergy, he communicates that Orthodoxy is not the truth. I would also think that Hank, being Orthodox, would have any number of gracious Orthodox clergy from Priests, Bishops, Monastics, to easily sit in Yohan's place, and communicate to Francis the true Home Church, especially in the base of this topic.
@jaffa 360 "Metropolitan" Yohan is the founder of his own denomination, the "Believer's Eastern Church" of which he is self-appointed and self-consecrated. To be Orthodox (big O) is to be in communion with the Orthodox Church, which has and maintains Apostolic succession. He may be well-intentioned, as it sounds on this vid, but he's no more in Apostolic succession than my uncle's Cowboy Church (yes, he really has a cowboy church. Not kidding. And a good man).
Yohan is oriental orthodox which crosses from left to right and to Eastern Orthodox which crosses from right to left.
@@TheJeffatan He's not Oriental. He is his own denomination that came out of Anglicanism in India. However with the Apostle Thomas' roots in India he has moved more toward Orthodox. I had an EO priest from India with no affiliation whatsoever with Oriental Orthodox who also crossed backward.
@@frankherbert6476 thanks ..I assumed by the way he crossed...did a little reading ... yeah...he is not in any communion with the Orthodox Church..I surprised now he was there.
But he had some useful contribution to the discussion, which really resonated with me as I made the move to Orthodoxy a couple of years ago...still facing alot of criticism from my protestant friends and family.
Are these Francis Chan interviews separate interviews or snippets of the one interview a few months ago?
All these were filmed at the same time, just released bit by bit! :)
@@scottpeterson9450 thanks Scott!
All of the 4 parts to this series are now released but yes, it was a series of conversations filmed on the same day.
@@BibleAnswerMan thank you for clarifying. I thought the video looked familiar but didn't know if this was an ongoing conversation.
Мery good books that deal with this topic:
Gillquist, The Rev. Peter E. Becoming Orthodox: A Journey to the Ancient Christian Faith.
James Bernstein. SURPRISED BY CHRIST: My Journey from Judaism to Orthodox Christianity.
I read the Gillquist one. Very poor.
I know which one is Francis Chan. But who is the gentleman in red? I enjoy his blessed discourse. I have always found the deep reverence and Presence of God in church liturgy, being brought up by my pastor father whose walk with Jesus was a beautiful orthodox, hebraic and evangelical mix and deep respect for the leading & anointing of the Holy Spirit .
@frolyhorn1426 ~ The gentleman in red is K.P. Yoannan (Moran Mor Athanasius Yohan I), who is the Metropolitan of Believers Eastern Church and Director of Gospel for Asia.
That was a beautiful discussion. It would be too risky to live without traditions (provided they don’t contradict the Scriptures). We need them to help us stay on the spiritual path otherwise without them it would be so easy for most people to be swayed off the path by the secular world. Having said that the traditions do not supersede the Scriptures. Traditions are as Hank sates are translations of the Scriptures rightly understood. If only more Christians understood that point by Hank the better it would be for all. Too many go to church and partake in the traditions without understanding their meaning. Just going through the motions is not wrong but it does little to help one grow spiritually.
Chan talks about the typical view of most Protestants who use knowledge alone to be in Christ. By all means do that but also use traditions like we Orthodox believers do to grow in the heart as well as in the mind. Similar to what Yohan said, two is better than one. Better still, three is better than two. It was cited by Jesus as the “greatest commandment in the Law” (Matthew 22:37-38); “…‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment.” The Orthodox traditions go a long way to assist in the process of spiritual growth. I know from first-hand experience.
I do realize though some people express their true love in Christ in different ways. Some as Chan says do it verbally and/or musically whereas others like the Orthodoxy do it more often in silence and espouse their love through the traditions, prayer, Eucharist, etc.. Each to their own as long as one has the same true living faith in Christ. All true faithful believers in Christ are brothers and sisters in Christ. The problem arises when some try to bring down each other for not following the exact same motions and traditions. We should accept our differences but at the same time be brothers and sisters in Christ in the common faith and love one another. As Chan stated our faith in Christ is non-negotiable. I have to admit though if the whole world converted to the Orthodoxy it would be a wonderful place. Alas, that won’t happen at least not until Christ returns.
Soo interesting and I agree. It is the “true living faith” that saves and is key. I personally grew up in traditional Uniting Church Churches, but now attend a Pentecostal Church and LOVE the vibrant worship and regularly have a significant spiritual encounter with God as I let go of the focus on myself, focus on whether anyone sees me raise my hands etc.
I do sometimes worry that a non believer could come and mistake it for a “concert and a TED talk”.
As a personal step towards unity, I vow to attend some orthodox services. I would love to encourage some of you to attend some Pentecostal gatherings with an open mind.
Francis is a wonderful trustworthy preacher, so even tuning into some of his sermons could be interesting for you. Louie Giglio is also excellent!
God bless you all!! 😀
Well said!!
@The Righteousness of God In Christ Jesus Provided one has the right understanding, which for too many people they can’t achieve on their own.
@The Righteousness of God In Christ Jesus
So how does one know it's God talking and not some evil spirit? We are supposed to confer with each other as well as the Scriptures to make sure we are not being deceived by false teachers and demons. That can be a Catch-22 situation but if one has common sense and is eager to know the truth it’s not that hard to discern a good teacher from a false one based on the type of fruits they produce. Also, many people need help and having discussions with others of the right mindset is appropriate and necessary as Scripture encourages it.
Proverbs 15:21: Folly is joy to him who lacks sense, but a man of understanding walks straight.
Proverbs 11:14” Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellers there is safety.
Proverbs 15:22 Without advice plans go wrong, but with many advisers they succeed.
Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice.
Romans 12:5 In the same way, even though we are many individuals, Christ makes us one body and individuals who are connected to each other.
Ephesians 4:12-13 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ. This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.
Sacred scripture is a part of the tradition of the Church. In fact you wouldn't know what books make up the Bible (since the Bible itself doesn't say) without sacred tradition. We should also make sure that our interpretation of scripture doesn't contradict the traditions of the Catholic Church Christ founded.
What Francis calls tradition, I call worship. My experience in Protestant "non denominational" churches is there is no real worship or reverence. Maybe it's all in the believers heart but I feel like I am worshiping when I am on my knees in Catholic mass. I tried the rock and roll church and couldn't get into it.
As a Catholic sometimes it helps to explain what we mean by “tradition.” Many evangelicals instinctively equate “tradition” with the “traditions of men” found in Matthew 15 but that’s not Sacred Tradition; the Catholic Church rejects “traditions of men” as well.
Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture together form what we call the Deposit of Faith. In John 20:30-31 we read not everything Jesus taught is found in the written gospels and even St. Paul explains Sacred Tradition in its proper role in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and in 2 Timothy 2:2.
To summarize: Sacred Tradition is good and “traditions of men,” not so much.
Loving these talks, also heading to a more sacramental understanding of communion especially. I just can't wrap my head around maryology (if that's a word). Understanding of Mary doctrines 🙂
You might be interested in this episode of Hank's podcast (it was about Mary). ruclips.net/video/GSPaNF2Kh80/видео.html
@@BibleAnswerMan thank you. Has hank done any chats with Lutherans , such as Jordan Cooper? Looking to go through the similarities and differences there
Good suggestions. No posted interviews w/ Lutheran ministers/theologians on agreements/disagreements w/ Eastern Orthodoxy.
The mother of God, Mary? If I was God and I could create my own mother she would be Amazing! Lord, help us.
This is painful.
What are the Holy traditions?
Holy Tradition is generally the faith and practice which Jesus Christ imparted to the Apostles, and which since the Apostles’ time has been handed down from generation to generation in the Church.
Eastern Orthodox Christians find Tradition encompassing the books of the Bible; the Creed, Ecumenical Councils, the writings of the Fathers, the Canons, the Service Books, the Holy Icons, the whole system of doctrine, Church government, worship, spirituality and art.
In the same breath, the theologically astute Eastern Orthodox will humbly acknowledge the difference between Tradition and tradition, since many traditions passed on are human and accidental - pious opinions or impious ones but they are not part of the one Tradition, which is the fundamental Christian message. Big “T” Traditions -= fundamental Christian message. Small “t” traditions could be pious or impious.
Check out The Orthodox Church by Timothy Ware - www.equip.org/product/the-orthodox-church-an-introduction-to-eastern-christianity/
Evangelical Protestants too have Traditions and traditions. Some will say the doctrine of the Trinity and Hypostatic Union (Jesus being fully divine and fully human in one person) is part of the big “T” Tradition. But, something like using drums in praise song in a Sunday morning worship service or limiting sermons to 20 minutes are a small “t” traditions. Could be pious or impious?
Hope this helps.
"Once- I do not know how-a woman brought me in her hands a picture of two men in the guise of philosophers and let fall the statement that they were Paul and the Saviour-I have no means of saying where she had had this from or learned such a thing. With the view that neither she nor others might be given offence, I took it away from her and kept it in my house, as I thought it improper that such things ever be exhibited to others, lest we appear, like idol worshippers, to carry our God around in an image. I note that Paul instructs all of us not to cling any more to things of the flesh; for, he says, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we Him no more." - Eusebius.
'The Art of the Byzantine Empire 312-1453'
Francis Chan should speak with Dr. Bryant Pitre to learn about the Jewish faith and the deep roots within Catholicism and Orthodoxy to see where and why traditions exist in the faith.
it is enough to study who were te first 5 popes, Constantine and what Catholics did to the st Thomas Christians of south India
I dont understand why this "Metropolitan" who talks of Tradition continues to remain outside of the church. It makes him seem disingenuous and highly suspicious.
They all three remain outside of the Church.
@@pierreschiffer3180 hank converted to Orthodoxy so no not all 3. Unless you are a papist, your comment makes no sense
@@scipioafricanus2195 I am not part of any Eastern Orthodox church: I do not believe in any of these churches. Not in the Russian and not in the Greek and not in the Romanian either. How would any national church be the Church?! I only believe in the one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church. Read the old creeds, my friend. There is no salvation in separation.
@@pierreschiffer3180 of course there are national churches and they are all united in doctrine. Ive read all the councils and their canons. Before the Pope made his power grabs there were national churches in the west too. They werent all "latin" until much later. Your church broke off from the catholic church as all the other patriarchates testify to. Your church innovated and broke off from the deposit of faith handed down from the apostles. You should do some reading outside of Catholic apologetics. Papal supremacy is based on and was supported by numerous forgeries for centuries.
@@scipioafricanus2195 Ah, you even go so far as to call the early writings forgeries. Not much I can do for you still, I guess. Read the Early Church and do not trust in your own ideas.
I love how Francis ends it with a laugh. If we can’t laugh at ourselves, the whole world stinks!
Brother Chan, pls continue to search. You will find that this nice talk has it other side. Big part of the Holy Tradition has nothing to do with the Bible.
Did the "church create the scriptures"? Wow, here is a foundational issue that needs to be resolved!
Truly "holy tradition" is important...but are they just equal "tracks". Jesus sets the priority when he challenges the Jewish leaders for teaching the traditions of men as if they were the commands of God!
The trick of Orthodoxy is that they believe they dictate what is in scripture. This is a very dangerous overreach.
☦️❤️☦️
“Tradition is the living faith of the dead, traditionalism is the dead faith of the living.”
There is much to think on this.
Someone, please brake this down
So, Chan is going to lead his church in praying the Small Paraklesis now? Scary.
Saved by Grace through Faith 1 Corinthians 15 I-4 saved by the Blood of Jesus that he died was buried and Rose on the third day washing our sins Clean Believe in the Blood of Jesus for your salvation God Bless
It’s far easier for me to believe the early church fathers did a good job agreeing on theology than for me to believe Peter or James wore the clothes a modern priest wears, or that all the first century house groups had Icons, alters, incense, etc . . . . It has to be that much of the externalities of the Orthodox Church we’re created later on when actual church buildings were built . . . ??
Confused why Metropolitan crossed himself from left to right rather from right to left.
@hilol2091 - Didn't notice. Don't recall. Where in the video does Metropolitan Yohan give the sign of the cross? If he signed from left to right is the western way.
Tradition is fine as long as 1) It doesn’t contradict scripture and 2) It’s authentic for the person practicing it (in other words, it’s not empty ritual, but has genuine meaning for that person)
I’m an evangelical, but I love the sound of church bells and seeing an old church building filled with incense.
2 Thessalonians 2:15, Tradition IS the Word of God, in oral form
@@glennlanham6309 It depends on the tradition. There’s the traditions taught by the Apostles (given from God) and there’s the traditions of men. (Mark 7:8)
Some traditions (like Communion and Baptism) are biblically based. Some traditions are harmful. (I.e flagellation) Some traditions are neither rooted in scripture nor anti-scripture. For example; Lent or not eating meat on Fridays.
Saint Basil the Great speaking against sola scriptura and in defense of both Scripture and Holy Tradition:
Context:
In the mid 300's a heresy arose challenging the divinity of the Holy Spirit. These heretics used a type of sola scriptura argument in defense of their position by stating that if the Holy Spirit was not explicitly called God in scripture then they can't believe it.
Saint Basil The Great responded:
"Concerning the teachings of the Church, whether publicly proclaimed (kerygma) or reserved to members of the household of faith (dogmata), we have received some from written sources, while others have been given to us secretly, through apostolic tradition. Both sources have equal force in true religion. No one would deny either source-no one, at any rate, who is even slightly familiar with the ordinances of the Church. If we attacked unwritten customs, claiming them to be of little importance, we would fatally mutilate the Gospel, no matter what our intentions-or rather, we would reduce the Gospel teachings to bare words. For instance (to take the first and most common example), where is the written teaching that we should sign with the sign of the Cross those who, trusting in the Name of Our Lord Jesus Christ, are to be enrolled as catechumens? Which book teaches us to pray facing the East? Have any saints left for us in writing the words to be used in the invocation over the Eucharistic bread and the cup of blessing? As everyone knows, we are not content in the liturgy simply to recite the words recorded by St. Paul or the Gospels, but we add other words both before and after, words of great importance for this mystery. We have received these words from unwritten teaching. We bless baptismal water and the oil for chrismation as well as the candidate approaching the font. By what written authority do we do this, if not from secret and mystical tradition? Even beyond blessing the oil, what written command do we have to anoint with it? What about baptizing a man with three immersions, or other baptismal rites, such as the renunciation of Satan and his angels? Are not all these things found in unpublished and unwritten teachings, which our fathers guarded in silence, safe from meddling and petty curiosity? They had learned their lesson well; reverence for the mysteries is best encouraged by silence."
Basil then cites 2 Thessalonians 2:15, where Paul says, “Hold fast to the traditions you received from us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”
(Passage taken from my readings of "When the Church Was Young" by Marcellino de Ambrosio)
Hank is all over the place; fasting, prayer ropes, Jesus prayer. My goodness, if the apostles were the closest to Christ and listened to all his teachings then who did the apostles pass those on to? I want to read them because that is what Christ left us finite, pea brains. St. Thomas could not even wrap his head around the Trinity and we can interpret scripture accurately? Oh, boy.
Is the bearded male donning a Chotkey?
No.
What is being worn by is never Metropolitan Yohan (K.P. Yohannan) identified as a "Chotkey."
When Roman Catholicism as a religious tradition mended many pagan practices with christianity, everyone knows about Christ-Mass On December 25 - the day many pagan traditions celebrated their winter solstice day (shortest day of the year) and of course Easter an already established date for pagan Rebirth Spring Festival. I come to understand that within the most influential traditional religious institution Roman Catholicism is syncretist, in indigenous culture "the church" adapts to traditional indigenous religious culture, but also when evangelicals convert to Romanism, like for example Scott Hahn and others - they tend to bring their evangelical zeal with them as well, so roman Catholicism adapts to many and various religious traditions christian or not.
What are your sources for this?
Pagans didn't have a December 25th festival; the Solstice generally falls around December 20th/21st.
Your claim about Easter is false too.
@@RevengeOfIjapa This is my personal observation, I deduce this from common sense and Alexander Hislop book; The Two Babylons. I understand that the winter solstice may fall in and around within the last two and a half weeks of December. Most theologians know Jesus was not born on December 25 and i am not saying those who celebrate Christmas Dec. 25 are pagans but rather pagan customs influenced Christianity.
Yes there's a place you can look for how the early church practiced. It's called the Didache
So venerating icons and theotokos would not be a thing then? I dont see that in the Didache
Sola Scriptura is, in and of itself, an extra-biblical tradition. It is not explicitly laid out and defined in the pages of the Bible.
Where is Sola Scriptura, in Sola Scriptura?
What the Apostles handed down to us was the teaching of Christ. But what the later church fathers handed down was the apostles’ teaching mixed with their own teachings. Original sin saw its origin in the days of Augustine, it was never mentioned in any writings earlier than the 300ADs. Baptism of infants soon followed as a logical consequence, another invention not found in the New Testament or early writings of the first couple of centuries. From there it’s a downhill accumulation of non-Scriptural traditions that would have made the rabbis proud. Ultimately we will stand before Christ to be judged, not before Augustine or Luther or the Pope or the Patriach. Who’s word do you think we will be judged by? Beware those who teach man’s traditions as the doctrines of God.
Agreed. Theotokos was taught after original sin. Veneration wasnt until the 600's -700's
The writers of The Bible didn't need to use such fancy words defending tradition and liturgical theories. They had Jesus Christ in their hearts and The Holy Spirit to guide them. Period.
First Hank, now Francis. Jordan Peterson has been drawing attention to orthodoxy. What is happening
Why does this make me feel so uncomfortable and give me an uneasiness in my spirit?
Yeah me too, I was cringing the whole time.
@@johnewald5480 so strange because I’ve been looking for explanations into the orthodox traditions for a while. So this conversation should have been exactly what I was looking for.
@dustin Neely unfortunately the Orthodox Church is almost as splintered as Protestants. Saying that he’s not apart of the church is a bit like a Protestant saying that the Baptist church across the street isn’t really Baptist. There’s just no objective way to make that statement considering patriarchs are calling each other illegitimate every time the orthodox churches try to have a council.
@Dustin Neely thank you!
Yea I saw that too, I and I was wondering about that. Han being Orthodox, I was surprised he had him on. It paints a picture he is Orthodox.
I learn from Hank. He is a brilliant man and very graceful specially when he presents Jesus God's Only Begotten Son. As for KP Yohannan started GFA but he got carried away when he took the money given to train missionaries, help children ..... and purchased 300 acres of land and built 80 houses.... He got into trouble. GFA was becoming a private corporation from donations. GFA was sued. A class action law suit for 37 million dollars. I was disappointed and grieved. KP dresses up like a sadhu. Why? Is that a tradition?. He let the homeless of India live inside blue plastic bubbles. Ravi Zecharias had local politicians get involved to build apartment buildings to shelter the homeless. Ravi's daughter Naomi works with destitute.... Ravi has set up schools to train young people to defend the faith. We must remain focussed on the call of God placed on each one of us and not get side tracked when money keeps pouring in
THANK YOU for your comment. Yes, this self-proclaimed "Metropolitan" is a heretical con artist and here's Hank chilling with him and portraying him as a man of authority and substance. Now I think Hank must be just like this fake, why else would he associate with him??
Beware the traditions of men. God uses his word. Only.
Great video. But this metropolitan Yohan guy is a schismatic self proclaimed bishop of a self proclaimed church. Not good.
Exactly! The "Metropolitan" is a charlatan and not even recognized by the Orthodox Church. He created his own position. I can no longer follow Hank any more. He's gone off the deep end in a big way.
I feel like Hank’s comment regarding the pre tribulation rapture is pretty spot on. He’s right about the origin of that theory too. Grew up believing that up until about 2 years ago. I always believed it, but never understood how scripture was communicating that to the believer because it wasn’t and I think most of our modern beliefs about the end times aren’t really scripturally based. Don’t know if Francis believes that as he didn’t really acknowledge what Hank said. Truth be, I don’t really see how Francis fits into this conversation as he’s out of his league.
It is very concerning how many people in here are praising "orthodoxy" over being a christ follower. The pride of being EO seems to be an idol in and of itself.
I am still waiting for Hank to actually answer the question he keeps avoiding . The Filioque Controversy and the Orthodox insistence since 900AD that Orthodox are the only Christians. Not Catholics or prostatants
Was not the filioque discussed extensively in the Strickland and Jacobs interviews? What was not covered? See ruclips.net/video/BuewLSW8rfQ/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/hm3hh0ZT6I0/видео.html
@@BibleAnswerMan yes I watched and your guest and host were very liberal with the Truth very sad. That's why a good Christian checks many sources of actual history events. So sad you have to lie to people it's easy with internet to search, Hank should have fired the person running this site for not double check the guest . It makes a once great teacher look very bad
just give it up, y'all, come back to Mother Church
look at Kirill right now, completely comprised by Putin, come back to Rome
Francis is the only one taking a big step in UNITING all divisions ... I’m all in
The Didache... Search for it.
That Indian dude is from Kerala 😅..
Thats the state to which Syrian Orthodox Christians fled to during Islamic persecution..
@alpaciandecatre4385 Did not know that! Of course, Metropolitan Yohan has never identified with the Syrian Church.
He waves his hands too much.
I don’t understand the obvious contradictions you see in the Scripture as opposed to what is talked about here concerning tradition and early Church as the one of the basis for truth. Obviously, in Revelation, where the seven churches that were mentioned, the earliest churches five of them are with flaws. How can people put 100% faith in the so called Church (due to the composition of humans, who are sinners), which can always contain flaws and faults. If we were to trust in “church”, then we are ourselves in contradictions. Even the early fathers do not agree with each other. How do you determine what is true and what is false in this way. If you were to trust in the scripture, then there is no way you are to put 100% faith in the church. Church is not the source for truth. Christ and His word is and then it flows down to Church, His Body. How can the body be the source of intelligence rather the receiver of the expression of intelligence from the head. It’s just as simple as that. The thinking that to base our understanding and source of truth on Church over the Word of God is in itself contradictory, according to an obvious example mentioned above.
Eastern Orthodoxy Christianity is the way
Francis is asking questions, very dangerous.
Jesus confronted the Pharisees who developed traditions instead of reading the Scriptures. Jesus believed in Scriptural authority. How many times did Jesus say, "Have you not read?" My brothers and sisters in Christ, do not fall into this Satanic snare. The Orthodox Church is practicing idolatry. God has given us His Word. He has given us as individuals the ability to understand and apply it. He has given us a simple Gospel. Do not abandon the Word of God for man-made traditions. Trust God, trust His Word. He is faithful. We are saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works. Hold fast!
If we have been given the ability to understand his word than why do we have 30,000 plus denominations?
Yes Truth Matters but not to Francis Chan of course. It’s sad that some of the brethren in Hong Kong have been taken in by this ecumenical charismania.
Jesus said not to use vain repetitions as the heathen do, you pray the Jesus prayer over and over. This is what he meant when he said you nullify the word of God by your traditions.
No, it’s not. Bad exegesis.
answer how it is, dont just say its bad if you cant prove that.@@johnparker4484
Hank...i know you don't want to.say to .Francis that he is in protestant sect. But you know that is the reality. And he thinks he can get communion in his protestant church.....but he does not understand that only the Catholic/ Orthodox churches are the only ones that can.consagrate in holy mass.
Francis Chan has gone deep down into heresy. Shame because Master's Seminary is anything but.
Reunion of Apostate
“Holy Tradition”? That is a new one. 😂
Metropolitan Yohannnan, it seems, betrayed true believers in India and sold or compromised truth for making money and a name. Those who associate with or support him and his team need to justify themselves. Pastor Chan lost his credibility by his association with such a guy. What these people are arguing about? The church gave the Scriptures (according to KPY)?!!
The canon of Scripture was not finished until the 4th century. Glory to God that the Church was inspired to deliver the Holy Gospel.
"We anathematize the introduced novelty of the revilers of Christians. We salute the venerable images. We place under anathema those who do not do this. Anathema to them who presume to apply to the venerable images the things said in Holy Scripture about. idols. Anathema to those who do not salute the holy and venerable images. Anathema to those who call the sacred images idols. Anathema to those who say that Christians resort to the sacred images as to gods. Anathema to those who say that any other delivered us from idols except Christ our God. Anathema to those who dare to say that at any time the Catholic Church received idols."
Decree of Second Council of Nicea, 787
Be true EO and completely expel all those who do not agree with icons. Unless you have your own form of Eastern Orthodoxy. Quit calling francis a christian if he does not agree with icon veneration
Sadly Francis is lying or ignorant of majority of Protestant worship. Hank would be a great Pharisee. . He loves religion. you can confess to anyone God will always be listening .
I am for tradition but not for developing a Bible truth into a ritual and not when the Tradition has Scripture contradictions. Lifestyle praying in the Spirit without ceasing, for example, does not mean we develop a Liturgy or a set of prayers to recite. It may help a minority of Christians who are sincere in their pursuit of holiness but for the rest it develops into empty ritual. That would come very close to believing justification by faith and sanctification by works. History proves that because such is human nature. Furthermore, I am for using Tradition into Bible exegesis and personal theology and practice. However, I would limit this to the Jewish-based first century traditions and be critical about the Gentile-based Traditions like the Theotokos and icons. Besides, these ecumenical councils should limit their mandate to addressing heresies. The theotokos, although I respect that belief as a Christian, and those icons are dangerous because of human nature which will eventually develop these into blatant idolatry like what the Spanish version of the Roman Catholic church has been promoting for centuries. On these issues, the Councils exceeded their mandate. The first century Jewish-based Christians would throw out those icons as fast as we create them based on the second commandment. How do I know this? The Jerusalem Council went as far as telling the Gentiles not to eat blood, which was a distinctly Jewish tradition. Also, the Jerusalem council had to settle a theological issue but the fact that there is only one council meeting incident recorded in Scripture seems to make the event descriptive instead of prescriptive.
I have read a lot about the Eastern Orthodox Church, many principles of which are quite consistent with my Wesleyan-oriented beliefs. However, most of the rituals and practices towards piety and holiness, i.e., traditions (especially based on post-first-century traditions) are based on inferential and allegorical interpretations of Scripture instead of clear declared principles. This allegorical method is what cost Miriam 7 days of leprosy in the Exodus journey. In Numbers 12, God seems more concerned about clear declarations like what he says to Moses, versus secret codes and allegories, i.e., the dreams he gives to prophets, especially when the dream interpretations contradict the declared word of God. In this sense, the protestant tradition excels.
I disagree, and have for a long time, with Reformed and Calvinist theology, though, like I said, I am basically Wesleyan (I just disagree with the doctrine of prevenient grace since it is essentially similar to the Calvinist irresistible grace as needed prior to salvation. I also disagree with Arminianism's losing salvation and repenting to gain it back. I believe that there are many sins (that are the equivalent of rebellion) that God will never forgive. Numbers 15 clearly declares this. This means that once you lose salvation, you lose it permanently because there is no forgiveness. God recommended stoning instead of sacrifices)
One side issue and very much related. Yes, the oral tradition of the first century church created or composed the New Testament. Like the constitution of the USA, before the formal writing is made, there is much discussions (similar to oral tradition). It would be safe to assume that the New Testament is like a Constitution of the first century church or at least a formal declaration and description of their belief system and tradition (practice). It is imperative, therefore, that later traditions should NEVER contradict neither the letter nor the intent of this document. Moreover, whereas the First Century church "created" the New Testament, later Church fathers simply "interpreted" them and are prone to error which history has proven, hence, they are not allowed to add or subtract anything to or from it. Again, the theotokos and the icons become dubious in the light of this principle.
Hank looks like a villain from spider man. 😅
He looks lean and mean!
I think he has cancer 😢