THE SOPRANOS - MELFI discovers the truth about criminals
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- Опубликовано: 5 дек 2012
- The criminal's sentimentality reveals itself in compassion for babies and pets.
The criminal uses insight to justify henious acts.
Therapy has potential for noncriminals. For criminals, it becomes one more criminal operation. 
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Funny how Elliott says that we're all professionals when what he just did is one of the most unprofessional things that a doctor can do: breaking patient-doctor confidentiality.
Oh really? Are you a doctor?
He was a complete ass. The worst character on the show by a country mile.
That is a HIPPA violation. That’s one of the quickest ways to get your medical license/suspended revoked not to mention fines.
I think the "we're all professionals" quip is itself an attempt to downplay the HIPAA violation. He's trying to say it's okay because it's a "professional" conversation among therapists, hiding gossip behind the air of professional study and discourse.
@@laserdice you never laughed once the first time you watched it? I was laughing at the first episode when tony was smiling in his car as he chased the t owed him money
The funny thing is that Elliot was obsessed with the Mafia himself. IMO he was jealous that Tony Soprano was Melfi's patient and not his.
At the same time he probably realizes he would have been killed by such an individual. Or at least that's my position...
But Elliot wouldn't been able to get through to Tony cause A) he wasn't Italian b) Tony doesn't respect wimpy men and wouldn't/couldn't show being vulnerable in front of him C) The only reason Tony never hit Melfi when she pissed him off was because she was a woman, Tony would have already gave Dr. Elliot a beating.
jakep1979 d) he didn’t have Melfi’s legs.
@@DuncanUdaho67 E) She's been kicked around and she's had to fight, and struggle!
Elliot was racist, and had rich persons bravery. (Never been slapped) as u can c how he treats Dr. Melfi. He'd a been short term :/
"We are all professionals" - Elliot after doing the most unprofessional thing ever!
Yeah, someone should reach out to his HIPAA compliance officer.
@Brandy Baker But she won’t and neither will the rest of them. These things happen among all professionals. They are flawed people, like all humans, and their perceptions of the world is limited by their elitist social bubble.
all doctors do this at least once
Man his face with that voice & personality is soooo punchable JFC!!
He is a top notch gaslighter
"All Italians have big noses" He's lucky CHRISTOFAHH wasn't at the table
Its like a natural canopy
OH!
@@Jay60888 Head shots fer everybody
HAHAHAHAHA
Canopy jokes incoming
Elliot was absolutely unethical. Peter Bogdonavich did an excellent job at portraying Elliot as a smarmy, holier-than-thou, thoroughly unlikeable person. David Chase has said that there's not a single innocent character in this series, and that every character lies. I believe it.
Charmaine Bucco.
They should have done more with his character, the Jewish therapist Carmella sees!
Zak Claxton what about Bobby, not exactly innocent but seems to be the most trustworthy
@@chessmentor63
I agree, but will it only be a repeat?
Aivottaja Oh shes not “innocent” either.
The idea of therapists getting together and talking shit about their patients is pretty horrendous 😂
But it happens.
Lawyers and doctors do that all the time
@@Ghaltouni They better not!
What else do you think teachers, lawyers, shrinks, and doctors do when they hang out?
@@itsallgoodman4108 Talk about sports and their familis... like everyone else...
“The talking helps them become better criminals “ that was so true about Tony. Talking to someone made him feel less guilty about everything he did.
Yes but isn't that true of us all?
@@zacharyb2723 lol right
@@zacharyb2723 yes and no. For some it helps you to realize your wrongs and change for the better. Tony throughout the seasons became worse.
@@zacharyb2723 No, because when most people rationalize their childhood trauma they don't use it to justify murder.
She gave him the strategy to make Junior feel in charge. She gave him the foresight to investigate Pussy is a rat. While Markasian told him he didn't believe it. When she started telling him how patients can manifest physical symptoms for psychological issues naming amongst other things a secret, the light bulb came on. She was basically his true consigliere without knowing it.
Elliot deserves a Janice.....
Can you imagine a relationship (in any kind of form) between them? Elliot would piss his pants.
Only Satan himself deserves Janice.
To smother him to death by sitting on his face
Yes! and a Phil Leotardo in the closet!
I'd take a Janice
She was always his true Consigliere. Helped him get out of so many jams, but she can’t help him stop being a criminal.
Agreed!
She helped Tony become more creative than Spielberg.
Damn, never thought of her as his consigliere before! 🤯
litterally how ive always though of melfi. From the elderly book to help deal with uncle jun, to sun tzu, a guide to winning any war.
Melfi's competence, whatever happened there
“Chill out. We’re all professionals.”
- the least professional person at the table
He said it boastfully anyway
Melfi should have said "I'm connected, now each of you give me 10,000 dollars or else".
she sicks Tony on them.
+N.B.
You gotta bee on your hat!
And then he would owe 11000 dollars.
husker hammer
"Gimme one thousan dolla" :-)
That room would've emptied in two seconds had she demanded a quarter.
I like how they ended it with her reading the study. It shows that she is a true professional who still absorbs the bad news even if she didn't agree with it
We could use a whole lot more of that with the populice.
I'm a true professional my self I could do psychological evaluations
Also whose writing the study?? Someone who views their patients or subjects in a specific way, thusly, how truly reliable is anything that comes from academia?? I mean would you read a manual then go fly a plane or do you practice? We’re all a little mad
@@mlilof84 What is this tortured comparison. Patients are not airplanes, and unlike airplanes they don't come with a manual. Studies in all medical fields, psychology included, follow a rigorous format that minimizes bias and error. Surely we should aim to enrich our knowledge through careful analysis of the data. If it wasn't for that we would still live in the Middle Ages.
She wasn’t very ethical in the way she ended it. Weird to agree with Tony on professional ethics.
Elliot was so repulsive. He always had such a doucy expression on his face
antisemitic piece of shit
I'm not even Jewish. I just enjoy making fun of racist idiots. I love that racists like you are marginalized in today's society. Try to espouse your bigotry in a professional environment and see if you have a job the next day. The world is a beautiful place sometimes.
My great grandparents came from Poland. Meaning I'm 25% Polish, and an atheist. Making me 0% Jewish.
I mean, I get that you racist types are all dumbasses, but I thought you at least knew which people you were supposed to hate.
Tbf it's because he acts as such. It isn't his actual face but the demeanor of the character.
"Chill out, we're among friends. We're all professionals."
Yeah, not _all_ of you. He's like a girl in middle school who can't help but blab everyone's secrets for 1 minute of attention.
Ell-ee-yot! Beee Gooood
I wish she had Tony whack that piece of shit.
@@flightofthebumblebee9529 Who do you think you're kidding? All you thought about was blackjack.
@@Agent1W he was gay Gary Cooper?
@@flightofthebumblebee9529 NO! Weren't you listening to me? (frustrated) You thought their stay in the country was free, but it wasn't. Frickin' Chief Smith wants Frankie Valli to come up there and play a week, like this whole frickin' junket was about.
I would hope never to be under the care of Elliot as a therapist. This is insanely unethical of him.
Absolutely. They're just illustrating there are bad apples in every profession. Especially those sneaky Bakers!
Most are like him believe it or not
Believe or not 87% of health care professionals break hippa laws
But for him not to force the issue like this would also have been unethical.
Dr. Melfi is the hero of the series. She is the only character that doesn't betray her values. Anytime she notices herself straying from those values she corrects herself. She truly believes she can help Tony overcome his psychopathic tendencies, but his allure never corrupts her. She says no to his romantic advances even though she feels an attraction to him and his criminal lifestyle. She never tells him about the rape, even when the justice system of society fails her. Everyone in her life from the beginning is telling her not to get involved because it is dangerous. Even when her life is threatened she doesn't give up on him. She could have easily ignored the science in the end and disagreed with it, continuing the therapy, but she doesn't. She realizes that what is best for the patient is to move on.
Naw when Elliot advised her to send him to a different therapist, and then he warmed up to the idea, she nixed it for her own codependency
That's not the whole story. She believed in her therapy. She believed she could help him. When it was pointed out that she was falling prey to his charm and enjoying the masochism of the whole thing she stepped back. She didn't just lash out like Tony when her hypocrisy was pointed at. She actually took time to consider everything and re-evaluate why and what she wanted to accomplish. She did not keep Tony as a client because she wanted the thrill of it all.
@@ryanmcallister2321 yes - there is a difference between drifting/falling into temptation - and THEN sticking to the temptation when it is clear it is destructive. That Melfi was drawn to Tony was human. When she was able to step back, she did the right thing - for him as well as for herself.
Lmao, i love melfi but she know that you cant helo a mafia boss. She was very stupid.
@@ryanmcallister2321 sounds like every girl that turn dependant on abusive relationships, "i could change him" lol
This is the key scene of the entire show. It's when we realise that we've been falling for it just like Melfi has - and when the scales fall from our eyes, we see what a grubby little gang of assholes we had been rooting for all this time.
Either that or you get grubby little transphobes homophobes and misogynists thinking they're a part of the crew in these comment feeds lmao
@@augustalexander2647
You're missing the joke, you must be a Liberal. One of the first things you typed was homophobe..."lmao"
Gay jokes=homophobe.
There is a ton of insightful and intelligent conversations about this legendary TV show, yet you see some people having some fun and point out we're all "homophobes".
Classic.
Okay, when a character makes a statement or a claim in a tv show or movie, you haven't just received a fact of the universe from God.
Tony isn't there to become a more moral person. Melfi is a Psychiatrist, not a pastor. He's there to talk to someone. And there isn't some blanket definition for all criminals or all sociopaths, or that they all react the same to therapy, nor is the show telling us that. Tony wasn't "shinin Melfi on" when he was there. He wasn't practicing his manipulation techniques. He was telling her his genuine feelings.
@@aloysiusdevadanderabercrom6401 I can't tell you how much I cringed. You just revealed yourself as exactly what I'm talking about... so why would your opinion be remotely valid to me? You're not bright, are you?
@@augustalexander2647 CHILL OUT, WE ARE ALL AMONGST FRIENDS, WE ARE ALL PROFESSIONALS..
I noticed from the first few episodes that Tony was applying his lessons from therapy towards manipulating and domineering the people around him; through logical/emotional appeal rather than physical force and implicit threat. If he hadn't gone to therapy, he would have crashed and burned before becoming the boss. Then a whole lot of people wouldn't have had to die.
And the truth is when he truly needed her the most during the war with Phil, she cut him loose. It is a wonder if she would have saved his life had she not ended his therapy.
@@Kyle2516 Nah, Tony was pretty much done that season. His crew was decimated, he was facing charges on the gun, and Carlo had turned states evidence. It was the sum of his choices, and since he refused to change, his path was easy to predict.
@@matthewriley7826 Melfi was good about giving Tony advice about his crew indirectly. It's just a wonder if she would have helped again
people die....whether under one boss or another. We see Tony's kill count. Others have theirs in alternate timelines.
@@no1guy825Agree, imagine the violence under a junior or a Richie
This moment is like a bookend to the moment when Tony flipped the table over and threatened her. She forced him to confront what he knew about his mother but didn’t want to believe. Now, her colleagues force her to do the same thing here about her patient and she gets hostile at first, just like Tony.
They are educated beyond common sense.
David Govett Good one and it makes sense.
....So &$)#@! true!
This aged well. Welcome to 2021.
haha too smart for their own good right
The educated see an entire world that most people don’t even know exists. I would rather be educated.
They set Melfi up and gave her a professional intervention.
It was completely unprofessional, but she did need to hear it.
@@AFanOfCinema "We're off the record here, Albert."
We’re off the record?!?
Yup, and she needed it.
Mr type A personality
It took her seven years to discover about Tony what her mentor knew within seven minutes of talking to Carmela. That the only solution for someone like Tony is not therapy, but confessing his crimes to the world.
My imaginary first meeting between Tony and Melfi:
"Mr. Soprano, I cannot help you in your present way of life. Your anxiety attacks are a direct result of your criminal lifestyle. Eventually it drive you mad, and then it will kill you. Your only hope is to confess your crimes and take the consequences. Then I could help you, and not until." That would have been truthful and therapeutic. But also it would be dangerous for her to say to him.
"The one thing about us wiseguys; The hustle never ends."-Tony Soprano He was hustling Dr. Melfi all along, that's what she realized with the study with those words: "Therapy has potential for noncriminals. For criminals, it becomes one more criminal operation." The only way Tony would ever get better is when he leaves La Cosa Nostra. Which never happens unless he got locked up or killed.
She hustled him also, let's get real
@@ennuiblue4295Tony played her like a fiddle
The only way Tony improves is if he admits what he’s done wrong, that means he either goes to prison or enters the witness protection programme.
She was Carmella without the home life. A massive enabler
How is the wine? Im with the Vipers!
Ooooh really?
@@dbz4586 "Who's that, your shinebox scouts troop?"
Actually I was just thinking it lost some of it's, I dunno, pop!
lol
It's completely inappropriate that she is friends with her own therapist.
i always loved the zoomed-in text when melfi is reading. that felt like the peak of the series, to me, given that this was right near the end.
I loved it!
It’s literally telling you, in zoomed in text, what Tony is about.
No confusion, no minced words, no nonsense. This is for the folks who are so endeared and enamored by “gabbagool” and “Ay, I’m walking in here!” that they completely forget these characters are not good people.
Entertaining, sure, but truly messed up.
A great artistic choice. Melfi's inner voice reading text we don't see would've not been as effective
The close up shot of texts is inspi red by Goodfellas scene when Karen Hill in prison reading ledger seeing Janice Rossi visiting Karen Hill. Awesome.
Good eye !
Wow
That was actually really good
It’s like a curse, everything she reads upsets her 😂
Its the effect of using a macrolens on type. You read along with her, discovering the information as she does. The technique is similar in both cases.. but it goes beyond "inspiration". People used the same technique even before Goodfellas. And both instances serve their respective purpose.
Christopher shooting the pastry guy in the foot was more of an empty homage. It served no story purpose other than to show the actor who played Spider doing to someone else what had been done to him in Goodfellas.
Dinner with the Shrinks would make a good reality show.
I think so too. Or A Real World type show with 8 strangers w degrees in Psychology living together for our viewing pleasure would make for good TV.
most are as maladjusted as their patients
This paints the shrinks in a very bad light
And a nightmare for the weekly, unsuspecting dinner guest.
you should watch Six Feet Under lmao
The worst part about this scene, is that when therapists get together, this is probably the kind of conversations the morons have!
It is exactly like this, and these moments are also in exactly the same way awful to the few who do genuinely put heart and soul in their work like Melfi.
teachers do it too! They have nicknames for their pain-in-the-ass kids!
I'd rather eat alone then having fake narcissistic assholes around me.
Untrue. Speaking from experience.
Please don't let a TV show act as a truthful representation of reality. Use real experiences or academic/scientific assesments for that.
David Chase is master of this form of storytelling. It is a true joy to watch these episodes.
Peter Bogdanovich (Elliot Kupferberg, Melfi's therapist) passed away yesterday, January 6th 2022. Rest In Peace.
Theres a few scenes with junior that explain it. The mafia-life crushed their empathy for others.
When tony is calling juniors doctor you can see junior smiling and grateful...then quickly put on a stoic almost stern face.
Another scene is when tony asks junior "dont you love me?" And you see junior turn away with a tear in his eye. Suppression of emotions is a trait for members of the mob.
Or when Tony comes out to Paulie, Christopher, and Silvio about therapy, and Silvio says something to the effect of how it would be nice if they could each open up to one another, "but it ain't never gonna fuckin' happen."
We definitely see Tony grow into a bigger sociopath. After being put in situations where he had to kill friends and family and often being betrayed by the same people, I think anyone would have Tony's mindset.
@@Sernival you don’t become a sociopath you either are or you arnt it’s not a process
@@bigg4874 actually it kinda is? Your environment greatly influences your traits, but I’m not here to debate nature vs nurture ,Psychopaths are not necessarily born they can be made. That’s why it’s important to assess each case individually rather than making oversimplified absolute statements.
Suppression of emotion is also a trait of Britains Royal Family.
Kinda strange to have dinner with a group that includes your own personal therapist. But I guess it's dinner among colleagues. It's funny how Tony displays all of the red flags in their next appointment lol
Elliot was in love with Melfi. Elliot knew that Melfi had feelings for Tony. Elliot is like the teenage geek who is in love with the girl who is out of his league and so he works to sabotage her relationship with the quarterback so that he can move in.
I wouldn't say Melfi was in love with Tony, but there was definitely something there. An adult crush? She was drawn to the tough guys? Recall the scene where Tony professed his love for her in no uncertain terms. Actually, there were a couple of scenes. You could tell she was interested, but she thought better of letting herself surrender to him and hid behind her her professional ethics. (Probably a wise decision.) Tony was everything Melfi's husband was not. (Recall the episode where she was raped and how her husband behaved. Melfi wanted her husband to tear the guy apart. To be a man as they say and instead, she got a guy who was a wimp in a sweater. A guy who couldn't get his head around the fact that her rapist was Italian more so than his wife had been raped and she needed him then more than ever. Tony would have torn that rapist apart limb from limb. Tony's eyes would have rolled over white and he would not have stopped until there was nothing left of the rapist and he (Tony) was exhausted. Deep down. Way deep down, insider her female lizard brain that turned Melfi on. She was attracted to Tony and Elliot knew it.
Good point I never thought about it that way.
She had feelings for Tony she would repress behind her work lol
disagree. elliott wasnt interested in her. he was just jealous that tony wasnt his patient
@@BeattapeFactory also, remember that tony was no varsity athlete
I think it's more likely that he just resents women who like bad guys, regardless of whether he had any attraction to her.
The only shrink in the series that had any integrity was Krakower, in a 5 minute conversation with Carmela he discovered what that family was all about and he immediately shut them down, didn't take money and didn't enable them, he told Carmela the truth, warned her and left it at that.
Where as Melfi enabled Tony, she turned a blind eye to who he was and the horrible things he did, all of which she knew about, made him feel less guilty, gave him coping mechanisms and strategies going forward...there really is no excusing how long she continued to help him.
I think its hilarious people think melfi is a professional or whatever lmao. This show showed us two seperate therapists who were actually true professionals: the one who turned tony away and the one who told carmella exactly what the truth was. No sugarcoating like melfi saying the way tony is isnt his fault.
She almost had him figured out until the rape. She definitely dropped the ball with Tony but I think if you aren't willing to give her a pass in this case, you'd have to be pretty fucking cold. She was a nut hair away from sending him off. I'm not going to excuse her sexual feelings, they are definitely unethical but also pathetically human. I doubt that old dude wanted to fuck Carmella.
Its almost like Elliot and the women to his left had the entire conversation planned beforehand to confront Melfi.
Get your coat, Jason [her son], we're leaving...
This is my last dinner here, that's what's going on!
Ehhmmmmm aren't they, ESPECIALLY Elliot, violating the confidentiality law/rule?
Bonde Balle Yep, they are all contradicting hypocrites.
Melfi let it slip to him in therapy .. Shes just as guilty as eliot
Not really. Since it was therapy, everything Melfi said was bound by patient confidentiality rules. You can be a therapist and a patient to another therapist.
Half of my family are Jewish doctors and therapists, none of violate confidentiality rules
Yes. Especially because she had revealed Tony's identity during her session with him.
I never thought Melfi enabled him through therapy as they suggested. But she did empower him by suggesting he read Art of War. It seems that Tony seriously wanted help.
Tony revealed his true intentions at the start of the series. He wanted to stop having panic attacks, the have full control of his life so he could be a better criminal. Melfi did actually help him with that.
She did and in many ways she was morally culpable for some of the illicit choices Tomy made. She knew Tony lived the criminal life and that most of what he was saying was alluding to criminal activity, but she went along with it. So often times when she was giving him advice, little did she know she was helping him out maneuver his own guilt for his heinous acts, or, even worse, help him recognize a strategy to use to gain the upper hand in a situation that involved a criminal element. For instance in season 6 she gives him the advice to act as if nothing has changed with himself, even though he had been severely weakened by his gunshot. She is thinking she is giving him advice to just ignore those insecure thoughts, whereas he warps it to mean he should utilize unhealthy violent behavior he had always used, prior to the gunshot event. This leads him to beating up his driver. There are many other instances where she is literally helping him cope with a murder or assist him in maintaining control of who he was as a mob boss, not person. For Tony, therapy was only a place he could go to 1) perpetuate his sexual fantasy with melfi (in his own words "it's
a jerk off) and 2) make him a better mob boss, not a better human being. He wanted to be cured of the panic attacks so he could be a better leader. Tony knew his own emotional impulses held him back from functioning as a successful mafia crime boss, and he was ashamed of it.
Tony soprano; "when your opponent is of choleric temper, irritate him".
This is a spin on Sun Tzu's "if your enemy is quick to anger, irritate him"
Tony used her advice to be a better criminal
Keep your ass to the sidewalk, friend
She definitely enabled him. And she fell for his charm so much she needed someone like Elliot to break the fever dream she was in. She can try to pretend like she was professional but she got sucked in.
The moment that Dr. Melfi realizes that it’s time to Dump Tony as a Patient.
Jennifer finally realizes that her mentor, Dr. Krakower, was right about what psychiatry has become in America.
So it seems, so it seems
After the name "Soprano" is spoken that screwball says; "We're all among friends and professionals". WTF?! A true Professional would have more ethics when among his own peers. Melfi should have called him out on it more harshly. Just my opinion but I sometimes do couple's counseling and couldn't condone such a "slip" of ethics. Horrible moment for Melfi.
Everyone seems to be missing out on what's so fun about this scene. From Elliott letting loose with the Jeopardy theme, to the other "professionals" reacting the way you'd expect high school kids to in the cafeteria. Not one of them said anything about unethical behavior. Instead it was all: "Tony Soprano is your patient? Oh my God! No Way! How cool is that?"
IMO Melfi subconsciously wanted it to come out amongst her high-society friends (to massage own ego / respect), else she wouldn't have snapped so easily at Elliott over the coincidence of the study conversation, and then 'pushing' it with him. And all the others show their own respect/hypocrisy (despite claiming to be against crime/criminals etc and superior to them as academics) with their response of awe (although Tony is worth awe) when it comes to a known/suspected underworld boss.
I would have said - I want my Family to be able to sue blow-hard's estate; when 'your gossip' gets back to dirty cops on the dole of any one of the five mob families
cocteautwinsrestaurant, the problem with therapist or any medical profession individuals, is that they believe their profession and credentials elevate them above the masses and their assessment is beyond question.
That was the Jeopardy theme? Oh good, I thought he was trying to do the theme from The Godfather. I thought Bogdonovich was tone deaf.
I love when they do that with written words as opposed to us hearing the character's inner voice.
It's a dark, dark ending for Melfi. She is essentially complicit in Tony's crimes over the years.
I disagree. Complicit is defined as "involved with others in an illegal activity or wrongdoing". She did no crimes at all with Tony and had no direct information about any either. In your theory almost every psychiatrist in the world would be complicit in a good amount of crimes. A lot of people in Therapy are doing illegal things and that's partly why they need therapy. Most don't come out and say it but you talk about your life enough and it starts to become obvious you live a different kind of life than regular society. Good therapists aren't going to judge you, they're going to try and help. If you feel uncomfortable about *anything* when going to a therapist, don't walk, *run* away.There's literally no point in going to a therapist if you're just going to lie and be uncomfortable, because unless you as a doctor are told about a murder that's occurred or one that's imminent you can't go to the police with information. If you've committed the murder though that goes right out the widow and you're going to jail for a looooooong time.
@@parkerhunter8970 she "helped" him be a better criminal. That's the point. Whether she did it intentionally or not, still makes her complicit in the sense that she was involved in Tony's wrongdoing.
@@kvaka009 I love the miss-characterization in that scene. You could also claim Melfi saved lives by help Tony deal with his anger. An interesting twist is to think how many more people Tony would have wacked without therapy. On a side note, if a judge orders anger management therapy, would the judge also be complicit if it makes the patient a better criminal.
@@Dularr Conversely, Tony could have easily died from complications related to an anxiety attack had he not been treated and medicated by Melfi. How many lives would that have saved?
@@parkerhunter8970 “is enabler more accurate?” (Quote)
Elliott was jealous that melfi had Tony as a patient
I think Elliot is as jealous as he is an asshole.He knew Melfi's work on Soprano is great for the psychology bu he just could not take it.So much that he forgets the confidentiality as it was mentioned here before.
+myautomobilefunk that codes considered sacred by any doctor who possesses any sort of scruples. You can't pick and choose when to break confidentiality it's highly unethical, and to do such a thing is easily grounds for losing your MD. The Hippocratic oath isn't a set of guidelines, and those who break it deserve whatever ill fortune that comes their way.
+myautomobilefunk junior was an old fuck with alzheimers and in a nursing home by the time of this scene.
People are being too harsh on Elliot. He saw she was getting in deep with Tony and personally saw no positive outcome, so he wanted to intervene. probably not the best way to go about it, but it worked.
@@augustalexander2647 Not his job. You're not being harsh enough. People like Elliot are worse for our society than Tony. There are barely any organized crimes anymore, all crimes come from large corporations and cabals of rich doctors. Just look at how American healthcare system is, we get ripped off every day. We have to pay them for their "time" instead of them actually curing us. it should be commission based. yet doctors like this still break their "Rules" and even worse they probably justify it with the same bs justification you came up with "Trying to help". I don't care about his intentions. He broke patient-doctor, acted unprofessionally and judgmentally, and represents everything I find holier-than-thou, arrogant, and abusive about doctors in general.
This is why you don't talk about work over dinner.
This pissed me off....doctor patient privilege .....
Same for Me.....pisses Me off. Therapists are told people’s most sacred shit and they all go out babbling your stories around to everyone. Fuck them! So unethical.
@@blacjackdaniels200 Here, Here! The handbook of criminals' personality Dr. Melfi was reading and what it said about criminals' behavior is bullshit! Therapists is for all different individuals including for these who are criminals.
@WD Harris There all doctors though, so I don't think doctor/patient privilege was violated as long as the information is not repeated to a non-professional.
Melfi is one of the reasons I'm now a therapist.
So in hindsight, should she have cut Tony off or continued her work with him? She could have kept seeing him and started her own study on therapy and criminals maybe.
@@Gregnetictherapy doesn’t solve a spiritual problem
it's amazing how it's so obvious at the end but the writers didn't really let the audience cotton on before.
she was helping him to be a better criminal. a better murderer, thief, extortionist. and making him feel good about it too!
It's true. Nearly (I think) every season features a moment where Melfi either aids Tony in justifying something (murdering his cousin) or out and out gives him a solution to his business problems (making Junior boss).
Until she realized he was a sociopath and dumped him.
Wasn’t it always kinda obvious? There’s instances of Tony quoting Melfi word-for-word to talk himself in/out of certain situations, or like when he uses Sun Tzu’s philosophy to console Artie when he has a shotgun to his head
@@xqw4851 you mean Sun Tuh Zuh.
It was pretty obvious in Episode 4.
This was essentially electro-shock therapy for Dr. Melfi. If she hadn't received this jolt, she would have just complacently gone on enabling the depressed criminal-murderer. The device of the party was unethical, but so was her helping Tony cope with his conflict.
Melfi still is proud of her work, when she replies “it is” despite the evidence
Ultimately Elliot did the right thing for Melfi. He saw how much harm her treatment of Tony was causing her, and nothing he had told her got though to her. But almost immediately after he reveals it to a group of her peers, reality dawns on her and she drops Tony as a patient.
As much of a douchebag as Elliot was, it worked. And she didn't even lose face because they all thought it was cool. It just forced her to look at what she was doing objectively, outside of all the rationalisations she had built up time to justify it. After that, it took about 10 minutes of reflection to realise she was being conned.
Two wrongs don't make a right and a social dinner was not the place to make his point.
@@intercommerce He has tried everything else in his defense. Life becomes gray very quickly. He’s a messed up guy but Melfi was in total denial about the situation and this was more or less an intervention. If she had been acting ethically she would have dropped him after made the sexual advances. If she were ethical she would have never publicly came on to him. She was in way over her head and wouldn’t listen.
Well said. It was unethical to do what he did, reveal the patient, but pointing it out and citing the study *in front of multiple peers* was the pressure required. Just Elliot saying it, she could brush off. But with all the other psychologists, it made her really reevaluate things.
@@intercommerce get the fuck outta here with corny cliches. Two wrongs do make it right at times.
Very good point
Brilliant scene makes a lot of sense. Melfi's colleagues have correctly figured out what's really going on.
This scene would be better with the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme at the end
Hah ahah it would.
Oy vey!
@Cobb Knobbler he's so left. But curb is such a great show
Lmao
Someone should do that edit. The Curb music slowly rising instead.
The way she lets Tony down after 6+ years of therapy was completely unprofessional
Which was the point. She carried it on for too long and grew complicit and she knew if she didn’t end it immediately she’d fall back into his charms
This was easily one of the biggest set-up & pay-off sequences in the entire series. Immensely key for setting the sobering subtext of the series' conclusion.
Agree not enough weight is given to this scene, another one that flew over peoples heads is the final episodes of better call Saul where Jimmy exploits and threatens an elderly Carol Burnett circling back all the way to season 1 when he showed promise as a decent human being for sticking up for seniors.
Melfi did help Tony out with his panic attacks and I don't think he was using therapy to become a better criminal or using Melfi in any way. She could have dropped him in a more humane fashion.
He literally used strategies she provided to further his criminal enterprises, starting in the first season.
Yeah literally every Doctor on youtube reacting to the show can't stand Dr. Melfi's portrayal of the profession. very unrealistic they say
I always thought of the ending scene of melfi figuring out they were right about Tony by putting the pieces together that Tony killed Christopher. The guy he constantly talked about how he was like a son and all he could talk about at his end was about the tree branch going through the babies car seat in the crash.
R.I.P. Peter Bogdanovich. He was just effortlessly effective as Elliot.
@1:54
"We're all professionals" Right after he acted incredibly unprofessional. lol
I know that the writers had to wrap up the plot line but I always thought that it was contrived that Melfi would just SUDDENLY "see the light" and just drop T the way she did..
Exactly. Same thing with Chris.
It makes sense tho she was absorbed by Tony and his world and how interesting and fascinating it was, just look back on past seasons and the things she thought about and said but after Elliot(who is a scumbag) really did show her she had a problem she did the only logical thing especially since most of her therapy sessions are about coming to realizations about him, that book was just the nail in the coffin.
It had been building for awhile though. She could see that Tony was never going to actually change.
@@Q-lays being humiliated in front of her colleagues was the nail on the coffin
@@catherinelizettegonzalez408 Elliot knew it would be. She would have to endure the questions, the asides, the fascination, and she'd have to justify it over and over again. Reading the research just helped to justify her cutting Tony off. She had been sucked into this world and it almost destroyed everything about her. Tony was a black hole, he sucked everyone down the gravity well of depravity, pathology, crime and murder and death. No one could escape that well because it had its attraction, money, power, machismo, strength. It was intoxicating and people fell for it time and again--even Jon Faverau--Mr. Marvel. Lol. They all wanted to be near that authentic evil and power to imagine themselves as viral men.
I always thought the realization came way too late. She should've realized this after Season 3. Still I can see that given her profession it didn't occur that she was actually making Tony a better criminal as opposed to a better person. To cut him loose was the best thing she ever did for him... if only she did this sooner. Probably would've saved lives.
It's incredible that it had to come to this for melfi to finally take a hint.
And this is about the core of the show
Still can't stop watching it after numerous times
I miss Gandolfini, always hoped to meet him someday
I have this... fantasy where a few days after Gandolfini died, I ran into Falco, Bracco, Imperioli, and Sigler (or maybe Aida Turturro)... perhaps waiting for an elevator... I'm startled and offer my condolences, get verklempt, and choke out how much what he did on the show, and what they all did, meant to a lot of us... and I say that people will still be watching the show in a thousand years. Edie usually offers me a hug, and they're all very kind to me, and I leave.
And in real life I tear up when I indulge this fantasy.
Yeah, I know that's pretty weird.
@@773SleepyHollow gay
@@PepeNuclear It could have been worse. He could have had a fantasy where Gandolfini was bumming him.
RIP, Peter Bogdanovich
"The wine is amazing." And you'd be just the desert..
This abrupt epiphany and then the immediate dropping of Tony as a patient a few episodes later was kind of a Game of Thrones-esque rush to the finish. This scene should've happened a couple seasons earlier imo.
Should’ve happened by season 2 itself. After Melfi had a client day at the hands of Antonio, that should have sealed it that he’s too dangerous and simply can’t be helped.
These scenes offer some really great subtle commentary about the audience interest in crime stories as well
the therapist social exchanges add so much depth to the narrative so efficiently
With friends like that, Milfy doesn't need enemies.
deep down melfi LOVED the attention she got from her colleagues for having tony as a patient
I think that's the reason she never dropped him, he was her experiment. She was examinating a mafia boss mind
this captures the hoity toity demeanor of academics/elites so well
I see that better call Saul was inspired by this scene.
How…? I don’t recall any situation like this in the show. Maybe Saul and Lalo?
@@juanjoyaborja.3054 Have you watched S6 yet? If you haven't you should, the latter half of the season has a similar scene to Melfi reading the study
Dr Melfi was critical to the depth of character Tony. It was always fascinating to drop in on their sessions or when they were talking/thinking about each other outside of her office.
After they realized she knew Tony, Melfi should have said "give me 1000 dollars" like furio lol
Elliot’s face was 10x more punchable after this scene
Melfi's last session with Tony is hilarious.
Elliot broke hippa here. Not only for Melfi but for Tony.
Bro Elliott really said "chill out" like drop dead
Elliot knows hes putting her at risk of ending up in the ocean floor by telling everyone she shrinks for Tony soprano
Tony had genuine compassion for certain people and animals. He spent time with the horse when she was sick, he had compassion for Tracie, and Junior when his uncle was on his last, with dementia.
Melfi never had the makings of a varsity therapist
A couple of years ago, a high politician in my country Sweden wanted to rehabilitate returning ISIS-warriors, without any professional grounds to support it. She should really watch the Sopranos.
Well the point of this episode was that she was enabling a clinical sociopath with severe depression to continue his criminal work. It was useless and contraproduktiv because Tony wasn't there to become a better person, just to get help in dealing with his weaknesses (panic attacks etc.) so he could continue doing what he does. Swedens plan was to resocialise people who where brainwashed into fighting for a "good" cause. Most of the local Isis soldiers are forced conscripts, and those from europe are mostly stupid youngsters. Sure many of them a very religous but not murderus sociopaths. So it is a good initiative to resocialise them into socity. They will have to deal the justice system but helping them realising their wrong doings and helping to prevent others to join isis is a far better road.
You are the one who doesnt make any sense. Learn something about islam and in what cases rape is allowed. Raping an infidel, white female: thats VERY ultra-conservative islam.
Ezeqeel "Learn something about islam" lol, and you're very specific too with "white female", is it only ok to rape white females? How about the black ones or the brown ones? Is that allowed? Teach me please, where does it say that it's ok to rape non Muslims? I want to see that please.
Go read something before You will start another moronic banter. I've read Qran because i was just curious of those things, maybe You should try it too - nad after You know what actually is there then go argue with people on RUclips.
LMAO the irony!
This whole season felt like a slow demolition and this episode felt like a rapid cascade of floors crashing down on themselves
Yup. And then came the finale. The nail to the coffin. The end of an era.
Sil and Bobby... whatever happened there
“The talking helps them become better criminals “ - a reference to Melfi's own professional career
2:08 Melfi owning the Jews.
Shut it down!
Pretty sure she was owning people who make fun of italians and jews
based
After years of trying to get T to curb his impulsive behaviour she impetuously then sacks T hilarious 😂
In Elliots defense:
He is acting based on his belief that SHE is “breaching ethics” by keeping Tony as a patient. Being drunk, and among trusted friends, in a private setting, he chose that opportunity to show his resentment of her decision.
He is still a dick tho 😂
Elliot used that as justification for his actions in the same way that this scene explicity tells you that Tony used animals/babies to justify his criminal behavior. Elliot was straight up manipulating Melfi. Also note how no one else actually gave a shit about the ethics of the sitation, especially when they learned it was Soprano. And then Elliot himself acted unethical in exposing that Melfi was treating Soprano.
elliot was just jealous of her
Well, "Anthony Soprano" being her client led to the deaths (suicides) of 2 other clients of her, when I remember correctly
I'll still forever be sad she didn't ask Tony for help with that situation she had...
Michael Franzese pointed out that in the real world, Tony, Melfi, and Kupferberg would all be dead.
The fact that she took them seriously and discontinued her work with Tony was probably the stupidest thing in the entire series. "Hey, I've been your psychiatrist for 8 years, but I read an article in a magazine the other day, so I don't want to see you anymore."
myautomobilefunk No, it was simply dumb. It was just one of several storylines which were abruptly ended in the last season.
myautomobilefunk Exactly, which is why you don't need to start crying whenever someone criticizes it.
***** A 8 year long infatuation which can be ended by a single report which would have simply been one of dozens which was floating around at the time?
Sloth from The Goonies It's not like her turnaround came out of a vacuum after an 8 year wonderful relationship. She knew she was dealing with a sociopath, and she mentioned to Elliot several times how much she wanted to confront him with his hypocrisy. In fact she did, back in season 2 when Chris was in a hospital bed and they were discussing the idea of Hell. It also helped that the article's description of a criminal in therapy was bang on when it came to Tony. I guess you didn't see it, but myself, watching Tony with his bullshit rationalizations about how he's not so bad as "those sickos out there" would lead any decent person to want to snap. The article was the trigger, but it certainly didn't do the whole thing by itself.
Schrodinger That must be why she invited him back when he left.
Ive often wondered what became of Dr. Melfi..For as big of part she had with the Show,and Tony-No real arc was given to her character...
You know who had an arc? Noah
The the Psychiatrist who attempted to set Carmella straight doesn't get invited to these events....
This was the show's "cold bucket of water" splash of reality. Tony was not a good person. As superficially likable as he could be, he was never going to be truly good. Therapy didn't improve him as a person because that's not what he was after. He was using Melfi for validation and justification, conning her into thinking she was helping him. Did he have legit issues with his mother? Yes. But was he just as much a manipulative sociopath in his adult life? Absolutely. Tony wasn't looking for redemption.. at best he wanted an emotional crutch.
Anyone else notice NOT ONE OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS SHOW ARE NORMAL...they are all just like tony but havent fulfilled their full potential...they all admire Tony...
Life is full of hypocrites pretending to be perfect .
Nah, I lived in front of a mobster house, and believe me, you can feel protected for be in the same neighborhood but you never want to cross in their life
In Elliot's defense: his tactics forced her to re-evaluate, and eventually terminate, an unproductive and extremely dangerous relationship. She got _this_ close to calling a hit on her rapist via Tony, and if she had then Tony would have owned her.
He could've done it elsewhere with her or a session. Instead, he decided to be the center of attention.
Alternate universe where Christopher is melphies patient instead and he gets out of the game like Little Carmine
RIP Bogdanovich. His character makes the podium of hatred.