i think people just saw it as a bigger and more expensive Camry, so most people either didnt have the budget for the Avalon, or those that did have the budget wanted the more showy Lexus
Zack, Here is a theory: Towards the end Toyota tried to make the traditional, luxurious 'Grandpa' Avalon sportier and sleeker. The sportier it got, the less it sold. There may be a lesson in that. 🤨
I think its because they wanted to bring the crown here instead, toyota never expected the crown to sell over about 20,000 units a year anyways. If they kept the avalon, it would’ve been a competitor to the crown and took sales.
Well the previous generation wasn’t selling so there’s that. So they tried to reach a younger demographic by making it sportier and it still didn’t sell as much, so I guess the damage was already done. I have a 2020 Avalon and it’s a lovely beautiful luxurious car.
@@aaliyahstar7803 I am glad you got one of the last Avalons. Ever since the original Mercedes CLS coupe-sedan arrived on the scene, there has been an ever increasing mania to make sedans lower, sportier, less comfortable and worst of all, less practical. By severely sloping the rear section of the roof, the traditional '3 box' sedan profile has been jettisoned and so has rear seat headroom. In other words, there was a general rule that if you could fit in a sedan's front seat, you could fit in the rear. Every mainstream sedan sold in the last 10-15 years has indulged in this fatal design flaw and almost every one of them has experienced a severe reduction in sales. In fact, most sedans sold 15 years ago are gone. The only boxy sedans sold today are the big, expensive S Class and 7 Series. Is it any wonder practical people seeking a comfortable ride generally buy SUVs and CUVs?
Also, maybe it could be that it was already too late. SUVs has taken over. To worsen the matters, if i am not mistaken, the prices were extremely high, even same as of the Lexus ES.
I had an Avalon and even though I paid cash for it I was shocked that everything was more expensive, the insurance the registration etc not to mention average 20mpg. Im happy with my camry now.
You just cant beat a Toyota! I've been a fan of them since 1985, when my parents got their first Camry. Everything Toyota makes is just so reliable and well thought out.
ES 350 with a Toyota badge. Excellent value but cannibilizes either lower level Lexus 350 or Toyota Camry with all the options. In the marketing world this car made no sense and that’s why it got almost no advertising. Boomers were the customer demographic even though I’m sure Toyota was going for the “Next Level” sell. “Camry trade in I see, 3rd one, well, mister have I got just the cure for you. Just retired? How about an Avalon, after all you’ve worked hard all these years don’t you think you deserve it?!”
Great points! At least Toyota tried. The absence of rival cars in this segment like the Buick Park Avenue and Chrysler LHS from the market nowadays is conspicuous. Is there not a market for big cushy front wheel drive sedans for seniors (or youngsters)? On every Park Avenue or LHS video, people wax lyrical about how they love such cars -- yet here's the Avalon available in 2019 and it didn't sell very well.🙂
I bought a new 2006 Avalon Limited. It was designed to be an American style luxury sedan. It was quiet and handled well. Here in 2024 the AC compressor stopped working and no parts were available. I drove around using a 4-60 AC. (Open 4 windows and do 60) I went over to the sales building and now have a 2025 Camry. And love it.
I have this model. You will encounter problems with the rear curtain, the leather of the seats and doors, the chrome of the screen, the air conditioning, and the cups. A piece in the steering wheel control will fail, and some of the car speakers will fail. These are the most prominent defects.
You’re right about the stereo though. What I don’t like about it is the really small screen paired with those comically large knobs. Its looks kinda tacky. The camry before 2018 did the same thing too with comically large buttons
I actually have the upscale version of this of the same year! (Lexus ES 350)! Has the exact same powertrain and inner workings so it's smooth as butter. The 2GR-FE is a legend. I've actually managed to get 28 MPG on my last tank on a fairly combined route using the AC pretty often. Super smooth ride, effortless steering, just like you said about the Avalon. Both the Avalon and the ES (from 2013-2018) are solid more budget-minded luxury purchases, that will get you there and back while breaking no sweats whatsoever. One thing that bugs me is that they put the sun shade button in another place and to turn off PCS you use the center screen. Speaking of the gauge cluster screen on the ES got quite a bit nicer in 2016 (when the ES had a decently large facelift). Call me strange but I actually think the Enform touch controller isn't bad. I got used to it very quickly and can pretty easily type up a nav destination. And the radio and climate buttons in the ES are physical, a touch I really like. Aside from the fact that there's not an AC button (so it's always automatic unless you go into the screen). Also in 2016 they made the screen a decent bit faster, too. Also the thing you said about the back seat is absolutely true, it's a good place to spend time. Though for no good reason they never offered heated rear seats in the ES until 2019. Awesome review as always.
Oh man... I wanted one of these so badly for several years. Unfortunately, it's a little too long for my garage, trunk is limiting for cargo, and a little low to the ground. But I still think it's one of the nicest looking cars out there.
Drove one the other day and now im considering trading in my 2016 camry. Everything about the avalon just feels so much nicer and a much quieter cabin.
I drive a 2014 Avalon, it’s very smooth, comfortable, and reliable. As someone who is decently tall, I like the extra space it offers compared to other sedans. I test drove the Crown, and it is nice, but it didn’t feel as smooth as the Avalon.
I am going to take a guess that the Crown sedan has a smaller interior than your Avalon. I would also expect the Crown has substantially larger rims with lower profile tires providing less sidewall cushion.
I love the back seat of a the 2017 Avalon, it has reclining rear seats too. The Hybrid Limited just greats great fuel economy, 40 to 50 MPG all the time.
The Avalon was a very nice cruiser, roomy, super smooth, very quiet. Basically it is a budget ES for people who do not want to pay more for the badge and extra treats at the Lexus dealer. I see where Toyota was going with the Crown. Since the primary audience for the Avalon was the assisted care and senior living center they were wanting to sell them a car that was easier to enter and exit with a higher roofline and hip points but with the form factor of a sedan which many of these folks still prefer vs SUV/CUVs.
@@rightlanehog3151 Car companies tend to run behind trends. Development work on the next model begins right after the launch of the current model. It has been over the last 5 years or so that older buyers have walked from traditional sedans and gotten into crossovers in large numbers. Avalon was doing fine along with the rest of its segment in the prior years. 5 years ago there were number of full-size cars you could buy, The Impala, LaCrosse, Cadenza, XTS, 300, Charger, Taurus, Maxima (more on the outside in that case) but almost all of them are gone due to lackluster sales. Toyota was guessing that the reason older folks gravitated toward crossovers is the hip height, roofline and easy entry and exit, that is the theory, we will have to see how it plays out. A lot of Outback buyers are over 65.
I borrowed my FIL's hybrid on a road trip this summer. So fuckin nice, dude. And we got somethin like 40 miles per gallon. My only complaint is the chrome trim that reflects the sun into your eyeballs
In some respects, it was better than the corresponding Lexus. The Avalon had a straightforward infotainment system, whereas the Lexus has a kludgy setup that needed a hockey puck joystick or the later touchpad.
This has Toyota's outdated infotainment system that doesn't have Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. It also doesn't get over the air updates and Toyota isn't updating it leaving customers with an outdated systems.. I don't like that Toyota put the new system in the new redesigned 2018 Camry, but kept putting the older outdated system in their other models. Toyota was slow to adopt Apple CarPlay and Android Auto
@@user9518-bp3qs Similar to the Corolla, which the redesigned model in 2014, then the new design in 2020. The 2018 Camry got the new Entunes 3.0, while the 2018 Corolla and Avalon will still stuck with version 2.0.
As many have stated, they tried to market the car to a younger demographic with the last generation. But here’s the problem, the tech in the car was crap. For a car in 2022 that had a price that went up $45k before fees, the interior tech was abysmal. The toyota infotainment system was horrible. Only wired carplay and android auto. The sound system sucked ass. So the car was too expensive with antiquated tech for the young people. And the exterior was too over-styled for their usual audience. So most people probably just bought the ES.
I'm a ride-share driver The people who get into your car don't deserve to be driven in a Avalon Or Camry. The people you pickup smell of Booze, Cigarettes and Weed That's why I stopped driving. People don't want anymore because of SUVS and crossovers. That's what the dealership wants to stick you with It took me a month to get my Camry Everytime I was at a dealership i told them I wanted to replace a Malibu and they would try to talk me into an SUV I kindly let them know I have a Forester and Tahoe and they would still push it on me
Coz it doesn't stand out or doesn't have anything unique to offer .... Same happened with flagship Lexus LS and this flagship Toyota sedan tooo .... Firstly they way it's designed and whom is it targeted is confusing ... Ls was good until May be mid 2000s and it didn't sell well after that ..the new ones looks like a coupe rather than a sedan with no V8. That made ls the LS ... THEY killed off all the rear wheel drive platform sedans for the sake of shitty font wheel drive crossovers that people are dying to buy ...they started putting so much money there that they lost the importance of sedan ... I think the GS platform could have been utilized to create a tweener for Toyota and Lexus ...
"I think the GS platform could have been utilized to create a tweener for Toyota and Lexus ..." You mean the Toyota Mark X? That's a little smaller than a GS I think. There was even the Mark X GRMN with a manual transmission paired to the 2GR. (Japan only, right hand drive only of course.)
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
i think people just saw it as a bigger and more expensive Camry, so most people either didnt have the budget for the Avalon, or those that did have the budget wanted the more showy Lexus
That does seem likely.
Add to that families want SUVs and you get a car that is stuck in the middle of better alternatives in the Toyota lineup.
It's the same as Tahoe vs Escalade?
@@bobhill3941 not really, the avalon is like 1 or 2 steps above the camry while the escalade is like 5 steps above the tahoe
I see avalons all over the place by me, not like Camrys obviously but definitely still a fairly common car
Zack, Here is a theory: Towards the end Toyota tried to make the traditional, luxurious 'Grandpa' Avalon sportier and sleeker. The sportier it got, the less it sold. There may be a
lesson in that. 🤨
I think its because they wanted to bring the crown here instead, toyota never expected the crown to sell over about 20,000 units a year anyways. If they kept the avalon, it would’ve been a competitor to the crown and took sales.
Well the previous generation wasn’t selling so there’s that. So they tried to reach a younger demographic by making it sportier and it still didn’t sell as much, so I guess the damage was already done. I have a 2020 Avalon and it’s a lovely beautiful luxurious car.
@@aaliyahstar7803 I am glad you got one of the last Avalons. Ever since the original Mercedes CLS coupe-sedan arrived on the scene, there has been an ever increasing mania to make sedans lower, sportier, less comfortable and worst of all, less practical. By severely sloping the rear section of the roof, the traditional '3 box' sedan profile has been jettisoned and so has rear seat headroom. In other words, there was a general rule that if you could fit in a sedan's front seat, you could fit in the rear. Every mainstream sedan sold in the last 10-15 years has indulged in this fatal design flaw and almost every one of them has experienced a severe reduction in sales. In fact, most sedans sold 15 years ago are gone. The only boxy sedans sold today are the big, expensive S Class and 7 Series. Is it any wonder practical people seeking a comfortable ride generally buy SUVs and CUVs?
I agree, the question is, would you buy this over a Lexus GS350?
Also, maybe it could be that it was already too late. SUVs has taken over. To worsen the matters, if i am not mistaken, the prices were extremely high, even same as of the Lexus ES.
I have a top-spec Camry hybrid and I love it, but man I drive 20,000+ miles a year and an Avalon would have been the perfect move. Excellent car.
I had an Avalon and even though I paid cash for it I was shocked that everything was more expensive, the insurance the registration etc not to mention average 20mpg. Im happy with my camry now.
Bad move for your gas bill though
You just cant beat a Toyota! I've been a fan of them since 1985, when my parents got their first Camry. Everything Toyota makes is just so reliable and well thought out.
The Avalon is a little more bigger and more luxurious then the Camry
My father had a 2002 Avalon which he passed down to my brother, who passed it down to me. It was boring but like many Toyotas, it was pretty reliable.
ES 350 with a Toyota badge. Excellent value but cannibilizes either lower level Lexus 350 or Toyota Camry with all the options. In the marketing world this car made no sense and that’s why it got almost no advertising. Boomers were the customer demographic even though I’m sure Toyota was going for the “Next Level” sell. “Camry trade in I see, 3rd one, well, mister have I got just the cure for you. Just retired? How about an Avalon, after all you’ve worked hard all these years don’t you think you deserve it?!”
Great points! At least Toyota tried. The absence of rival cars in this segment like the Buick Park Avenue and Chrysler LHS from the market nowadays is conspicuous. Is there not a market for big cushy front wheel drive sedans for seniors (or youngsters)? On every Park Avenue or LHS video, people wax lyrical about how they love such cars -- yet here's the Avalon available in 2019 and it didn't sell very well.🙂
I rode in a 2016 base model, and it was hella nice. I've loved Avalons ever since they came out.
These didn't sell well because people wanting a Toyota would go with the cheaper Camry and people looking for luxury would just go to the Lexus ES
Avalons are hands-down the best daily drivers.
I bought a new 2006 Avalon Limited. It was designed to be an American style luxury sedan. It was quiet and handled well.
Here in 2024 the AC compressor stopped working and no parts were available. I drove around using a 4-60 AC. (Open 4 windows and do 60)
I went over to the sales building and now have a 2025 Camry. And love it.
I have this model. You will encounter problems with the rear curtain, the leather of the seats and doors, the chrome of the screen, the air conditioning, and the cups. A piece in the steering wheel control will fail, and some of the car speakers will fail. These are the most prominent defects.
This is grassroot car reviews ive been missing for so long. Its fun to watch bau cars get reviewed
You’re right about the stereo though. What I don’t like about it is the really small screen paired with those comically large knobs. Its looks kinda tacky. The camry before 2018 did the same thing too with comically large buttons
Watched this last night, great video and really cool Toyota that we also don't get in the UK.
A few years ago I seen you do a review on the 2019 through 2022 Toyota Avalon. About ready to own that fifth generation can’t wait to buy it.😊
I actually have the upscale version of this of the same year! (Lexus ES 350)! Has the exact same powertrain and inner workings so it's smooth as butter. The 2GR-FE is a legend. I've actually managed to get 28 MPG on my last tank on a fairly combined route using the AC pretty often. Super smooth ride, effortless steering, just like you said about the Avalon. Both the Avalon and the ES (from 2013-2018) are solid more budget-minded luxury purchases, that will get you there and back while breaking no sweats whatsoever.
One thing that bugs me is that they put the sun shade button in another place and to turn off PCS you use the center screen.
Speaking of the gauge cluster screen on the ES got quite a bit nicer in 2016 (when the ES had a decently large facelift).
Call me strange but I actually think the Enform touch controller isn't bad. I got used to it very quickly and can pretty easily type up a nav destination. And the radio and climate buttons in the ES are physical, a touch I really like. Aside from the fact that there's not an AC button (so it's always automatic unless you go into the screen). Also in 2016 they made the screen a decent bit faster, too.
Also the thing you said about the back seat is absolutely true, it's a good place to spend time.
Though for no good reason they never offered heated rear seats in the ES until 2019.
Awesome review as always.
this is like camry but better
They used this car as the basis for the Lexus ES from 2013 on. Even uses the same exact engine (2GR-FE)
Oh man... I wanted one of these so badly for several years. Unfortunately, it's a little too long for my garage, trunk is limiting for cargo, and a little low to the ground. But I still think it's one of the nicest looking cars out there.
i purchased a 2015 4 months ago as my first car. this is our 3rd avalon in the family great cars from each generation
Drove one the other day and now im considering trading in my 2016 camry. Everything about the avalon just feels so much nicer and a much quieter cabin.
I rented a V6 Avalon in 2013-probably the first year of this generation. It felt more like a Lexus than a Toyota.
I rented one around the same time
I was really surprised that under full throttle, it would brake the tires free at about 5k rpms
I drive a 2014 Avalon, it’s very smooth, comfortable, and reliable. As someone who is decently tall, I like the extra space it offers compared to other sedans. I test drove the Crown, and it is nice, but it didn’t feel as smooth as the Avalon.
I am going to take a guess that the Crown sedan has a smaller interior than your Avalon. I would also expect the Crown has substantially larger rims with lower profile tires providing less sidewall cushion.
i would love to own one i loved the avalon 🥰🥰🥰🥰
The Avalon was a classic case of their customer base literally "dying out" since the average age of a Avalon buyer was well in their late 60's.
I love the back seat of a the 2017 Avalon, it has reclining rear seats too. The Hybrid Limited just greats great fuel economy, 40 to 50 MPG all the time.
I would definitely buy this Avalon.
Having owned an avalon and a camry of this generation, trust me, the avalon is a much nicer experience. I wish Toyota hadn't given up on it!
that sucks cause the 2018 avalon has the same dssign as the 2017 camry and the 2018 camry is like an entirely different car. rip avalon
The Avalon was a very nice cruiser, roomy, super smooth, very quiet. Basically it is a budget ES for people who do not want to pay more for the badge and extra treats at the Lexus dealer. I see where Toyota was going with the Crown. Since the primary audience for the Avalon was the assisted care and senior living center they were wanting to sell them a car that was easier to enter and exit with a higher roofline and hip points but with the form factor of a sedan which many of these folks still prefer vs SUV/CUVs.
If Toyota was actually 'thinking', why did they make the Avalon so low slung in its last two generations?
@@rightlanehog3151 Car companies tend to run behind trends. Development work on the next model begins right after the launch of the current model. It has been over the last 5 years or so that older buyers have walked from traditional sedans and gotten into crossovers in large numbers. Avalon was doing fine along with the rest of its segment in the prior years. 5 years ago there were number of full-size cars you could buy, The Impala, LaCrosse, Cadenza, XTS, 300, Charger, Taurus, Maxima (more on the outside in that case) but almost all of them are gone due to lackluster sales. Toyota was guessing that the reason older folks gravitated toward crossovers is the hip height, roofline and easy entry and exit, that is the theory, we will have to see how it plays out. A lot of Outback buyers are over 65.
I borrowed my FIL's hybrid on a road trip this summer. So fuckin nice, dude. And we got somethin like 40 miles per gallon.
My only complaint is the chrome trim that reflects the sun into your eyeballs
first!! love ur videos man been here since 2022
The Avalon Hybrid (which I have) is amazing!
We have 2016. Stellar road tripper.
I would have loved to own one, but Toyota never offered it in Europe. With the Camry being a struggling slow seller I guess that makes sense. 🤔
It's a huge car by European standards! Europe had the Avensis which is smaller than the US Camry, while this is even bigger than the US Camry, lol.
I have the same keyfob for my 2018 Corolla. This is optional or only on the XSE trim. It is push to start keyless entry
Happened to the 1st Gen Venza too. Guess Toyota’s with Lexus Traits don’t sell well
Best looking Avalon. Shame Toyota replaced it with the totally hideous Crown sedan-crossover thing.
Feel it’s position on the market segment was taken over the Venza, due to the demand of SUV’s. Great, but just not quite a Lexus.
In some respects, it was better than the corresponding Lexus. The Avalon had a straightforward infotainment system, whereas the Lexus has a kludgy setup that needed a hockey puck joystick or the later touchpad.
This has Toyota's outdated infotainment system that doesn't have Android Auto or Apple CarPlay. It also doesn't get over the air updates and Toyota isn't updating it leaving customers with an outdated systems.. I don't like that Toyota put the new system in the new redesigned 2018 Camry, but kept putting the older outdated system in their other models. Toyota was slow to adopt Apple CarPlay and Android Auto
That’s why I specifically want this. I don’t want spyware in my car.
They redesigned the avalon a year later as the 2019 model year, a year after the camry.. The 2018 avalon design came out in 2014.
@@user9518-bp3qs Similar to the Corolla, which the redesigned model in 2014, then the new design in 2020. The 2018 Camry got the new Entunes 3.0, while the 2018 Corolla and Avalon will still stuck with version 2.0.
@@plum4620 Cars without internet connectivity FTW!
Also, Toyota making a TRD Avalon was an idea.
Is the Australian Aurion the same as this?
The Aurion is kind of between this and the Camry
Nah, the Aurion is just the V6 Camry with the SE Asian market Camry styling. It's only the front and rear ends that are different.
I think they went down on comfort and it felt like a smaller car to me
Just about to push the button on an 04 Avalon
"I'm taking it back to the old skool
Cos I'm an old fool
Who's so cool"
"You wanna get down? I'll show you the way "
@@senseicorey9979
Whoomp there it is, let me hear you say 🤗🤗🤗
@@Pyjamarama11 we can't do this.....
Well we have the Crown now which is pretty much as good
04:28 BIG FRIGGIN BOTTLE FAIL!!!
As many have stated, they tried to market the car to a younger demographic with the last generation. But here’s the problem, the tech in the car was crap. For a car in 2022 that had a price that went up $45k before fees, the interior tech was abysmal. The toyota infotainment system was horrible. Only wired carplay and android auto. The sound system sucked ass. So the car was too expensive with antiquated tech for the young people. And the exterior was too over-styled for their usual audience. So most people probably just bought the ES.
From the side it looks similar to a Fusion.
I had a boss with one
So many people like suvs
😊 cool car
🔥🔥🔥
I'm a ride-share driver
The people who get into your car don't deserve to be driven in a Avalon
Or Camry.
The people you pickup smell of Booze, Cigarettes and Weed
That's why I stopped driving.
People don't want anymore because of SUVS and crossovers.
That's what the dealership wants to stick you with
It took me a month to get my Camry Everytime I was at a dealership i told them I wanted to replace a Malibu and they would try to talk me into an SUV
I kindly let them know I have a Forester and Tahoe and they would still push it on me
Coz it doesn't stand out or doesn't have anything unique to offer .... Same happened with flagship Lexus LS and this flagship Toyota sedan tooo ....
Firstly they way it's designed and whom is it targeted is confusing ... Ls was good until May be mid 2000s and it didn't sell well after that ..the new ones looks like a coupe rather than a sedan with no V8. That made ls the LS ...
THEY killed off all the rear wheel drive platform sedans for the sake of shitty font wheel drive crossovers that people are dying to buy ...they started putting so much money there that they lost the importance of sedan ...
I think the GS platform could have been utilized to create a tweener for Toyota and Lexus ...
"I think the GS platform could have been utilized to create a tweener for Toyota and Lexus ..." You mean the Toyota Mark X? That's a little smaller than a GS I think. There was even the Mark X GRMN with a manual transmission paired to the 2GR. (Japan only, right hand drive only of course.)
Peak car
TOYOTA ABULÓN
@The_gear_head_ Thanks, I appreciate the perspective.
04:28 BIG FRIGGIN BOTTLE FAIL!!!