Cool video! It's worth noting that in the movie, the Mach 5, Shooting Star, and other vehicles seen in the Casa Cristo Rally have a traditional wheelbase and steering system. The Mach 6 exists because the Mach 5 isn't a T-180 -- That's why they have to build a new Mach 6 for Speed to enter the Grand Prix, despite already having the Mach 5. Also, one other thing worth mentioning is that T-180s appear to have both a "normal" engine powering the wheels AND some sort of jet engine in the rear. When the T-180 "drifts", the wheels point in the direction of the turn, and the car rotates it's rear end outwards and subsequently points the jet engine outwards, creating thrust that cancels out centrifugal force, allowing the car to take corners ridiculously fast without relying solely on the grip coefficient of the tires. The many pedals of the T-180 probably help the driver control what the jet engine is doing at any given time, among other things, and I'm sure there is some sort of computer controlled aspect of how the car reacts to steering inputs. It would be a very complicated vehicle to drive. Also, Rex's Mach 4 appears to be a sort of... proto-T180, with both a traditional steering system and a rear jet engine that simply works in tandem with the regular engine and throttle pedal.
Yes, but the mach 4 and 5 looked like cars while the mach 6 has a full on jet like cockpit. But they didn't rebuild the mach 6 because the mach 5 was slow the mach 6 got blown up in Fuji. Thus they had to build a new car and used newer tactics. They even said they started from design to finish in the time frame I can't recall how long. Interesting to note that Spritle didn't know the engine originally put in the mach 6, when pops brought up Bernoulli's "Real power" I don't know I just find it odd, or the original mach 6 was slower than the new one? Doubtful.
I always thought Rex’s Mach-4 had T-180 in the front and standard in the rear, sort of like using drift suspension in a race car. You still take corners like you would with a fully standard wheelbase, but are able to recover from excessive angle slides much easier. Then later on down the line, about the time he had to “disappear” the AWS T-180 cars started getting used.
@@williamhutchins479 no? At Fuji Helexicon Speed was driving a T-180, and it's clearly visible even the number 6 on his car Plus, only T-180 cars can drive on those types of race tracks
I have been doing the same exact research for so long now! Speed Racer is my childhood favorite movie and I want to make race cars like the T-180s one day. Please keep on making these videos!
@@IamPabloBautista Thank you my man. I have just graduated high school and I am working on designs for these cars. I am planning to come back here for help. I can do great things on my own but with a team, we can accomplish WONDERS.
I am on board with this idea... I love how we see examples of traditional(the Casa Cristo Rally, they are essentially sport rally cars with *ILEGAL* combat modifications) and select scenes of semi-traditional(all the scenes the Mach 4 is on screen, which makes sense, T-100s like the Mach 4 were an early example of T-180 technology), however it seems to use the thrust of the cars to assist with turns(stopping and starting again in quick succession can put you out of a spin in the tie-in video game, in fact that game includes examples of other physics, there are only a few places on the track where it is safe to slow to a complete halt, any negative angles and your car falls off the track)
While AWS would improve the car’s turning circle, wider turns would still be more or less the same, as the car is still limited by the grip of its wheels. T-180s differ in the fact that they have both traditional wheel-driving engines, AND jet engines, and use their AWS to turn the jet engine in any direction to help push it through turns. You can even see the origin of the jet-drifting technique in that clip of the Mach 4 - Thunderhead is made of steel instead of asphalt, which makes it slippery; instead of relying on massively reduced grip, it was faster to forgo grip altogether and use the car’s jet engine to steer. T-180s double-dip and get the best of both worlds by maintaining wheel grip AND using jet steering. If you want to simulate this in KSP, I’d suggest either putting a rocket on a servo instead of the wheels, or maybe do something with RCS ports.
Not me crying out in joy while watching this, great video man!!! One thing we need to consider for race applications is that fact that with these sharper turns, wouldn’t the forces acting on the driver be far greater than before?
The T-180 all wheel driving. If brought to life just like from the film, It would change all form of racing forever, including Nascar, formula 1 racing forever.
My personal thought process on the T-180 cars in Speed Racer is that the cars back wheels function more like caster-wheels, where they can freely rotate to follow the direction of the car when you steer beyond the slip-angle. If you look at the vehicles like the Mach 4 and the Mach 6 the wheels look like they are clamped to the car by what appears to be vice grips. And similarly to how drift-tuned cars can use the handbrake to enable a drift it's not impossible to draw the conclusion that T-180 cars have a lever that enables this caster-wheel like drift.
3:13 while this is definitely a childhood dream of mine that I hope one day comes true, I think this 4 wheel system only applies to T-180 types, true or otherwise, such as the Mach 4 and Mach 6 (although from what I can tell the Mach 4 isn't a true T-180 , as I think it's a T-100, and doesn't seem to use all 4 wheels, but an early variation of the system since it is from an older generation). The Mach 5 and shooting star featured in the timestamp are not T-180s, to my knowledge, but rather just appear to be a typical sports car(or at least don't appear to have the same all-wheel steering system as a T-180), and therefore don't really make for a good example to illustrate the steering mechanism being proposed. Unless ofc they're just being used as a parallel to formula1 vehicles in real life. Slight nitpick, I know, but still. Hope this happens one day!
A bit late but, the Mach 4 is indeed a true T 180, its just from the very first generations of the category which had conventional steering in the front wheels and the 180 degrees base in the rear wheels, this is the same setting that the Uniron car Rex used had when he left Racer Motors
When I think about rear wheel steering being applied in racing, it reminds me of one of the stock cars in the 'twisted sister' model line in NASCAR. The car was set up with its rear axle at an angle so as to make the car 'dog track' in order to gain an aerodynamic advantage by creating suction on the left side of the car for better cornering.
Aug 2023 - I remember the Speed Racer series as a kid in the 60s. Absolutely yes go for it!! Maybe hook up with like-minded people like mechanics, a car engineer, toy designers, people that like the concept and are not afraid to try to create something new …. like a research and development program. Best of luck!
I would encourage research into the thrust vectoring that explains the mach 4 lacking a turning rear wheel (but still has some enhanced suspension, perhaps to more directly control the rear wheels?) And the effects it may have on a vehicle with a t-180 style rotational steering wheel, perhaps even in regards to braking, and, keep in mind that these cars had ridiculously high banking for the turns, so they likely go much faster than a formula one car.
I don't know if this is still a project of yours but a similar drive train to AWS is used in robotics such as in the FIRST Robotics Competition (FRC). In FRC that kind of drive train is called a swerve drive train as it gives each wheel rotational and speed freely to each wheel individually. There's also crab drive which is like swerve drive but all of the wheels rotate together as they're physically connected to one another
Love the video but for the T-180 to pull of the turns the driver takes advantage of the jet exhaust port to propel the car through the turns. And not just an AWS system but it would also need independent suspension to safely pull of the flips and rolls and have the aerodynamics of an F1 car to drive on those amazingly outrageous tracks safely as well. I think it’s possible but very difficult
I know the video is almost 2 years old but I wanted to point out that the shot of my the 3 cars drifting around during the casa Cristo race, those were not t-180 cars. Their cars were standard
Hey please keep this up because now days tech like reward steering from being able to strafe along banked corners or corner quicker is cool. (Can imagine the G-Forces) but yea I encourage you to keep this up
four wheel steering is already widely used and very effective, infact you know the GTR R34 was a prime example of such. the wheel change is not to the same magnitude as what you are imagining however due to the complexity of the build and the danger of turns. at high speeds the steering sensitivity is extremely high and with 4 wheel steering it would very dangerous compared to convential steering options.
Suggestion: You're going to want multiple driving profiles with proportional control goaling for each mode, so you can slip from mode to mode in a set of blended state-machines. Doing that, the gains would be bonkers. Even moreso is if you then pair this with a rocker-bogie assembly.
The Mach 5 honestly should have been the focus of the film. I think the film would have been even more amazing if that had been done. That being said, the Mach 6 is a pretty snazzy machine, and I like the concept of the T-180 automobile!
I think that's just your bias for the Mach 5, nothing wrong with that but it wouldn't have made anything that different, especially since the movie kinda keens a bit more the the speed family dynamic, atleast in my eyes
You get no traction at high speed if the turning angle in the rear is too high. You want the rear to bury into the ground not glide outward. If the professionals aren’t already doing it then there’s a reason man. Love your curiosity and engineering mind!!
Cool video! It's worth noting that in the movie, the Mach 5, Shooting Star, and other vehicles seen in the Casa Cristo Rally have a traditional wheelbase and steering system. The Mach 6 exists because the Mach 5 isn't a T-180 -- That's why they have to build a new Mach 6 for Speed to enter the Grand Prix, despite already having the Mach 5. Also, one other thing worth mentioning is that T-180s appear to have both a "normal" engine powering the wheels AND some sort of jet engine in the rear. When the T-180 "drifts", the wheels point in the direction of the turn, and the car rotates it's rear end outwards and subsequently points the jet engine outwards, creating thrust that cancels out centrifugal force, allowing the car to take corners ridiculously fast without relying solely on the grip coefficient of the tires. The many pedals of the T-180 probably help the driver control what the jet engine is doing at any given time, among other things, and I'm sure there is some sort of computer controlled aspect of how the car reacts to steering inputs. It would be a very complicated vehicle to drive. Also, Rex's Mach 4 appears to be a sort of... proto-T180, with both a traditional steering system and a rear jet engine that simply works in tandem with the regular engine and throttle pedal.
Can we give him an award smart
Yes, but the mach 4 and 5 looked like cars while the mach 6 has a full on jet like cockpit. But they didn't rebuild the mach 6 because the mach 5 was slow the mach 6 got blown up in Fuji. Thus they had to build a new car and used newer tactics. They even said they started from design to finish in the time frame I can't recall how long.
Interesting to note that Spritle didn't know the engine originally put in the mach 6, when pops brought up Bernoulli's "Real power" I don't know I just find it odd, or the original mach 6 was slower than the new one? Doubtful.
I always thought Rex’s Mach-4 had T-180 in the front and standard in the rear, sort of like using drift suspension in a race car. You still take corners like you would with a fully standard wheelbase, but are able to recover from excessive angle slides much easier.
Then later on down the line, about the time he had to “disappear” the AWS T-180 cars started getting used.
@@williamhutchins479 1. Mach 4 also had the same kinda cockpit as the mach 6
2. The mach 6 blew up at fuji the mach 5 was used in casa cristo
@@williamhutchins479 no? At Fuji Helexicon Speed was driving a T-180, and it's clearly visible even the number 6 on his car
Plus, only T-180 cars can drive on those types of race tracks
I have been doing the same exact research for so long now! Speed Racer is my childhood favorite movie and I want to make race cars like the T-180s one day. Please keep on making these videos!
Same here
Me too
lol its crazy how this movie effected us, one of the main reason i wanted to become an engineer
I hope you do bro not only will you be hella rich, ill be able to watch cars going insane speeds fighting each other
@@IamPabloBautista Thank you my man. I have just graduated high school and I am working on designs for these cars. I am planning to come back here for help. I can do great things on my own but with a team, we can accomplish WONDERS.
This made me a more fan of speed racer so thank you
Hey Im definitely on board with this project! I would love to help construct a car like the t-180s speed racer has always been my favorite
the cars in 3:14 im fairly certain are not all wheel steering as they are not t180s
Finally i find someone who is talking about this
if i could i would totally invest in this project to get us speed racer style racing XD
We need Power Cell engines and T-180 axels.
Me too
@@KudosK42 yeah
I am on board with this idea... I love how we see examples of traditional(the Casa Cristo Rally, they are essentially sport rally cars with *ILEGAL* combat modifications) and select scenes of semi-traditional(all the scenes the Mach 4 is on screen, which makes sense, T-100s like the Mach 4 were an early example of T-180 technology), however it seems to use the thrust of the cars to assist with turns(stopping and starting again in quick succession can put you out of a spin in the tie-in video game, in fact that game includes examples of other physics, there are only a few places on the track where it is safe to slow to a complete halt, any negative angles and your car falls off the track)
Watching this makes me feel like I'm watching a modernized Speed Racer episode.
While AWS would improve the car’s turning circle, wider turns would still be more or less the same, as the car is still limited by the grip of its wheels. T-180s differ in the fact that they have both traditional wheel-driving engines, AND jet engines, and use their AWS to turn the jet engine in any direction to help push it through turns. You can even see the origin of the jet-drifting technique in that clip of the Mach 4 - Thunderhead is made of steel instead of asphalt, which makes it slippery; instead of relying on massively reduced grip, it was faster to forgo grip altogether and use the car’s jet engine to steer. T-180s double-dip and get the best of both worlds by maintaining wheel grip AND using jet steering.
If you want to simulate this in KSP, I’d suggest either putting a rocket on a servo instead of the wheels, or maybe do something with RCS ports.
Huh, might look into that. I figured grip was the limiting factor but I’m not good enough at dynamics to show it mathematically. Thanks.
Monster trucks also have button or switch control rear steering. Just to add that in
Man, you not alone in this.
For all of you who doesn’t know.
The Mach 6 sound effect is a Saleen s7 (naturally aspirated) sound( listen to the revs and then listen to and S7
oh my god, how have I not seen this before, how perfect
ist been ages since i saw any relevet video to speedracer 2008. lOVE IT!
i was waiting for a video line this for years !!! make it ral men 👏🏽👏🏽
Not me crying out in joy while watching this, great video man!!! One thing we need to consider for race applications is that fact that with these sharper turns, wouldn’t the forces acting on the driver be far greater than before?
The T-180 all wheel driving. If brought to life just like from the film, It would change all form of racing forever, including Nascar, formula 1 racing forever.
My personal thought process on the T-180 cars in Speed Racer is that the cars back wheels function more like caster-wheels, where they can freely rotate to follow the direction of the car when you steer beyond the slip-angle.
If you look at the vehicles like the Mach 4 and the Mach 6 the wheels look like they are clamped to the car by what appears to be vice grips. And similarly to how drift-tuned cars can use the handbrake to enable a drift it's not impossible to draw the conclusion that T-180 cars have a lever that enables this caster-wheel like drift.
3:13 while this is definitely a childhood dream of mine that I hope one day comes true, I think this 4 wheel system only applies to T-180 types, true or otherwise, such as the Mach 4 and Mach 6 (although from what I can tell the Mach 4 isn't a true T-180 , as I think it's a T-100, and doesn't seem to use all 4 wheels, but an early variation of the system since it is from an older generation). The Mach 5 and shooting star featured in the timestamp are not T-180s, to my knowledge, but rather just appear to be a typical sports car(or at least don't appear to have the same all-wheel steering system as a T-180), and therefore don't really make for a good example to illustrate the steering mechanism being proposed. Unless ofc they're just being used as a parallel to formula1 vehicles in real life. Slight nitpick, I know, but still. Hope this happens one day!
A bit late but, the Mach 4 is indeed a true T 180, its just from the very first generations of the category which had conventional steering in the front wheels and the 180 degrees base in the rear wheels, this is the same setting that the Uniron car Rex used had when he left Racer Motors
Man, I hope this kind of car becomes a reality one day. I would very much like to drive something like this.
Speed Racer, here we come!
When I think about rear wheel steering being applied in racing, it reminds me of one of the stock cars in the 'twisted sister' model line in NASCAR. The car was set up with its rear axle at an angle so as to make the car 'dog track' in order to gain an aerodynamic advantage by creating suction on the left side of the car for better cornering.
Aug 2023 - I remember the Speed Racer series as a kid in the 60s. Absolutely yes go for it!! Maybe hook up with like-minded people like mechanics, a car engineer, toy designers, people that like the concept and are not afraid to try to create something new …. like a research and development program. Best of luck!
I will be looking into your career with great interest.
speed racer is my favorite movie, this is great
Agreed
i like how serious and funny this video is dear god
I would encourage research into the thrust vectoring that explains the mach 4 lacking a turning rear wheel (but still has some enhanced suspension, perhaps to more directly control the rear wheels?) And the effects it may have on a vehicle with a t-180 style rotational steering wheel, perhaps even in regards to braking, and, keep in mind that these cars had ridiculously high banking for the turns, so they likely go much faster than a formula one car.
I don't know if this is still a project of yours but a similar drive train to AWS is used in robotics such as in the FIRST Robotics Competition (FRC). In FRC that kind of drive train is called a swerve drive train as it gives each wheel rotational and speed freely to each wheel individually. There's also crab drive which is like swerve drive but all of the wheels rotate together as they're physically connected to one another
Maybe we could reach out to a team with one and ask them to do a quick test of cornering speeds and compare the times between AWS and 2 wheel.
Love the video but for the T-180 to pull of the turns the driver takes advantage of the jet exhaust port to propel the car through the turns. And not just an AWS system but it would also need independent suspension to safely pull of the flips and rolls and have the aerodynamics of an F1 car to drive on those amazingly outrageous tracks safely as well. I think it’s possible but very difficult
also according to the tie in game for the speed racer movie, the cars hit an averaege speed of 400 mph
I know the video is almost 2 years old but I wanted to point out that the shot of my the 3 cars drifting around during the casa Cristo race, those were not t-180 cars. Their cars were standard
Come back to it, you are the only one who can make it possible or into a reality
Damn, 3 years too late. I was looking for this and was hoping Id find someone who did it and didn't realize the video was 4 minutes.
Hey please keep this up because now days tech like reward steering from being able to strafe along banked corners or corner quicker is cool.
(Can imagine the G-Forces) but yea I encourage you to keep this up
Please continue with this series of videos PLEASE!!1! qwq
four wheel steering is already widely used and very effective, infact you know the GTR R34 was a prime example of such. the wheel change is not to the same magnitude as what you are imagining however due to the complexity of the build and the danger of turns. at high speeds the steering sensitivity is extremely high and with 4 wheel steering it would very dangerous compared to convential steering options.
10/10 vid highly recommend
Dont forget to mention the flip car from furious 6 and its 4ws system. It does the strafe/crab walk like in the movie but in real life!
Suggestion: You're going to want multiple driving profiles with proportional control goaling for each mode, so you can slip from mode to mode in a set of blended state-machines. Doing that, the gains would be bonkers. Even moreso is if you then pair this with a rocker-bogie assembly.
Now all we need is to build a fusion reactor for the engine, or maybe one of the turbine engines
Let’s go man! I would also like to see this outcome of this project and also what body you would like to use :)
Amazing video, keep it up!
I remember being a kid wanting to create cars like these and race them
3:09
F1 in Monaco...zzz
3:14
Speed Racer! YES!
Those cars were not all wheel steering unlike the T-180s such as the Mach 6 and 4 the rally cars have somewhat super durable tires
umm yeah i am really late to do this comment but
the video clip u showed in 180degree turn (3:12) isnt all wheel turn
Please keep this up 🆙
Now add a booster
The Mach 5 honestly should have been the focus of the film. I think the film would have been even more amazing if that had been done. That being said, the Mach 6 is a pretty snazzy machine, and I like the concept of the T-180 automobile!
I think that's just your bias for the Mach 5, nothing wrong with that but it wouldn't have made anything that different, especially since the movie kinda keens a bit more the the speed family dynamic, atleast in my eyes
May we get an update to this please??
You get no traction at high speed if the turning angle in the rear is too high. You want the rear to bury into the ground not glide outward.
If the professionals aren’t already doing it then there’s a reason man. Love your curiosity and engineering mind!!
3:11 These cars have front wheel steering
what happened bro that was 4 years ago we still waiting
This concept is one of my passion projects for the future.
Someone's working on a mod of this for Assetto Corsa
This was used in the NISSIAN skyline R32 but it's very suttle
Man, mach 4 and 5 don't have all wheel steering. Only the mach 6 has.
Btw thought i should say my thanks, found this vid a year or so ago.
And made me find the nasa car and could even add it to my speed racer playlist.
Trying to make thsi is main assembly. Hopefully this will help me program it properly
cool video
am waiting man!!!! next one
The flip car in Fast and Furious has rear wheel steering.
Amazing, hope to see more about it.
Any updates on your project?
I have issues getting the cars to turn with crab steering. It always starts strafing instead of flicking the body out
I’m hoping when I’m a adult this technology is perfected or at least made to be fully used I would definitely make it look like the Mach 6
Nice!
Bro they need to make a Speed Racer game for current gen
The Rivian and future electric cars will likely be able to do more substantial 4 wheel steering.
You really need to look at the flip car in fast and furious 6. They used all wheel steering in a real functioning car
Hey Dude, Not sure if you remember the name "Tim.Tams" But I was in JPG A couple years ago lol.
Good times man…
Nissan Gtr 2002 4 wheel steering, AUDI,MB, and alot of others are just now using 4 wheel steering but no,one as good as Speedracer!!!
Im all for whatever gets me into a T-180 race the fastest lmao
Only the Mach 6 is a T-180. The Mach 5, and others involved in Casa Cristo are all standard driving cars.
the gtr r34 had something similar to this in the freaking 90s
Still going?
T-180 racing should be real because we are advancing very well
Nice
Im actually so sad that speed racer type of racing isnt a real sport, and I keep waitinf for Speed Racer 2
eyyyy another person who wants to make the t180 real
I think ive found my people...
So when are we getting started on constructing an actual All Wheel Steering project? ☕️🗿
What ever happened to this project?
Even Herbie at one point was rigged with all wheel steering
You might be on to something 👀
Incrível
Invest in some stock make millions and found the nrw new racing league cuz the wrl exist make some tracks and when i turn 18 ill be a racer
Heck make a discord server im new to stuff like this but i can draw up some ideas or blue prints based of cars from the movies
Make tunderhead in San Diego its my home town
I would be careful if we’re you do to it having so much potential in racing cars many companies might think otherwise
If nasa hasn't done it yet, why haven't you?
hummer gmc ev 2022
speed racer rally cars dont have all wheel steering
am besten mit Elektromotoren !!!!!
Hummer ev
Your science career may be retired in the future just like your esports team if you think those are good drifts.