I was born and raised in the Greek Orthodox Church but I did not know Jesus Christ and of course I was taught that there was a trinity. I searched for spiritual truth in so many churches, then one day somebody invited me to a United Pentecostal church......WOW, I was so blown away! I was used to quiet non-emotional services,. I wanted to run out, yet I could not stop crying. I felt the love of God so strong and when it was over, I had a ton of questions. My friends who invited me stayed with me after everybody left, so I wanted a scriptural answer for everything...and they gave it to me....from the lifting of the hands, to the lively music, to why there were no icons......on & on I asked and they answered showing me the verses. We were the only one left in church, except for a long-haired guy who was kneeling at the altar all by himself, praying quietly for almost an hour. All of the sudden he stood up, arms raised and he started speaking in some type of Asian language......and the guy looked to be anything from Asian. I asked my two friends what in the world was going on, and they told me that he had recently come back to church after being gone for years and what was happening, was that God was filling him with His Spirit, which the initial evidence is speaking on other tongues.....they they showed me Cornelius's experience in the Book f Acts. I was a bit freaked out because I did not know anything about tongues, so I told my friends that I did not want to talk anymore because I felt so overwhelmed by everything. I closed my eyes and covered my face with my hands, and IN MY HEART I asked God if THIS was TRUTH.........nobody could hear me, only the Lord. Then about 30 seconds later, the guy up at the front with the ponytail started speaking in tongues VERY LOUD, and he said THREE times...."ALETHOS ALETHOS ALETHOS" which interpreted in Greek is "Truth Truth Truth" or "It is True" .....I was shocked and I asked my friends how did this guy know Greek? They said that he was not Greek! But even more so, that guy could not have heard the question that I asked the Lord from my heart.........then they showed me in the word that God can use tonues as a sign to an unbeliever. Well, to make a long story short, I went to church the next evening (they were having Revival services) and that I too received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit just like they did over & over in the Book of Acts. I was also Baptized in Jesus Name and I felt like a brand new person......in time, both of my Greek parents left the Greek church and they too were born again of Spirit and water. Serving the Lord in Apostolic Truth saved my life and the lives of my parents, because now we had eternal life. Jesus Christ is the love of my life and I thank Him for His Word, for my husband, children and Church family. I love people so much now and I LOVE to share the truth of God's Word with anyone that I can. And Yes, I still attend a United Pentecostal Church and I thank God for it and for His amazing love & mercy!
I was once Ordained in the UPCI, I sinned against God and left the church. I was arrested and sent to prison for 15 year. I was totally far from God. When I got out I didn't think a UPC or Apostolic church would welcome me back. So I attended a trinitarian Pentecostal Church for a couple of years. But I got tired of the watered down trinitarian preaching. So I came back to a United Pentecostal Church and I was welcomed back with open arms. The church I attend is a very loving church. I really don't want to ever preach again, I'm just so happy to be home again.
@@kelliez9991First day of the week causes lukewarmness. First day of the week (Protes emera tis evdomada in Greek) never once appears in the Greek Bible, nor any Greek Manuscripts. It's a big huge lie. The Greek Bible and Manuscripts all say Mia Sabbaton, Prote Sabbatou, Opse De Sabbaton, and Mian Ton Sabbaton instead of Protes emera tis evdomada. Sabbaths are commanded by Abba YaH to be 16-hour to 24-hour holy gatherings, to cease from all worldly distractions, to copy heaven on earth together until the Glory literally appears. The Whirlwind of Fire and the Cloud of Glory literally appears by praising YaH together for 10 to 12 hours, just like heaven. Exodus 16:9, Leviticus 23, Mathew 24:20 (context), Acts 1:12, to get ya started.
We left over 23 years ago and we had been in it for over 32 years. Much of what you are talking about is what was revealed to our family. God literally brought us out. We never looked back. Pagan Christianity is a very good book. When we got in the Word of God our eyes began to open. Men pleasing, etc., became a thing of the past and the fear of the Lord and his finished work on Calvary became the focus.
Yes, once I started reading my Bible for myself I just couldn’t agree with the UPC’s doctrine anymore. It broke my heart as I was raised UPC, but the Bible brought me out as I searched for truth.
I’ve been going through this the last yr. We were both raised in it. My husband & kids still go. He gets really frustrated… this nailed it & I’m only 9 minutes in. Reading the Bible with the lens off was insane! Im more confident in salvation now 110%
You are making a mistake. The Oneness doctrine is the truth, and the doctrine of the Trinity is inherently contradictory, which renders it untrue by definition.
I'm proud of you guys!. I grow up in the UPCI since I was a baby and I left officially 5 years ago. and it's the best decision I've Made. I didn't leave church Nor God. I'm just not part of the UPCI anymore
I took off the UPC lens for Bible reading and started praying for the Lord to open my eyes to understanding and wisdom before each reading. And my eyes were opened big and fast and I learned about God’s grace. The holiness standards will not help you get into heaven. They dont make you holier than thou. You can not earn heaven, nor do you deserve it. You are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ alone. Not by works. I finished all the certificates for the local license, and the only thing I had left was to read the manual. I couldn’t get past the articles of faith.
You are correct, holiness standards from the church will not get you into heaven. However, the more you seek God, you will being to receive convictions. Jesus followers should look and behave differently from the world. What the Bible says is truth. God is a gracious God He does say if we love Him with all our hearts we will let go of the worldly things. We are called to be Holy because He is Holy. I’m against prideful people from church who think they are better than everyone else because they live day by day with these standards, but they have wicked hearts and God will judge them. We are called to love one another and encourage each other. It’s not easy. God is so good!
I came to Christ at 23 years old , our church was small and they did not believe in receiving the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues. I had been involved in quite a few churches all my life .Sorry you felt pressured to speak in tongues, but an evangelistic came by and asked if I had the Holy Ghost. I was very offended, but I ask God if it was true and if it was I want it. A month later my husband recieved the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues and the next day I did . I didn't felt "threatened " to speak in tongues all I was doing is thanking God . Change my life! I was a completely different person. I do believe in order in church services and not pressure people in getting "hyped" in anyway thats how believers are pushed to put on an act at church and no change inside . Never been in the upc or other big organization can't relate on the pressure but I believe God guides us because He sees our hearts 😌🙏
Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to make this video. I’ve been out for 17 years, but my husband and children and now grandchildren are still there. It’s still really hard, but I'm continually trusting that the Lord will one day draw them out.
why do you left is it because of holiness, most people leave because they don't live up to standard of holiness that God wants them to. i thought UPC is all about teaching the holiness of God and what they taught in the church is not the UPC doctoring but thee doctrine of our Lord Jesus Christ.
@@tenaciousb1509 I would assume you would agree that according to the scriptures, we should teach modesty in our adornment and sexual distinction as something that especially in this culture, pleases the Lord? Now, legislating every detail I would agree with you on that. But we must be careful not to go overboard the opposite direction as if living for Christ is a free for all and nothing matters but our hearts....because that is a doctrine of the devil.
Well, I am at a Loving, Biblical UPC Church. Encouraging to read the word of God, to Pray etc. I am Bless to able to be surrounded by People who strongly believes in Prayer and to be Fill with the Holy Spirit. May the Lord JESUSCHRIST be in your life and Lets keep on 🙏 PRAYING. WE MUST BE READY HE IS COMING BACK SOON❤
So heres a info dump... Ex upc here👊😉 In Acts 11, believers were 1st identified "Christians"? All Christians in the Book of Acts were unarguably "baptized in the name of Yeshua"! [Equivalent of Yahweh-Saves, ] Furthermore Christ praised believers in Rev 2 & 3 for keeping "His Name"! (No other name given to be saved according to Paul PLUS Trinitarians ❌reject the book of Acts & Apostolic traditions of baptism in "Yeshua's name", trinitarians are 300 yrs to late for the Title "Christian". 😬"UN-Rational believer's", reframe the biblical narrative and reject that.... ALL 27NT Books AND ALL "9NT Authors", taught "Jesus has God". The "Unnamed Memoir", finally nicknamed "Gospel of John". Composed by an anonymous group of scribes, seechapterr 21) John 20:17Jesus said "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to " 👨🦳My Father" and 👉"Your Father", and to 👨🦳My God AND 👉your God. John 20:31 But these are written that ye may believe that 🤴🏼Jesus is the Christ, the 🔎Son of God👨🏼🦳, and that believing ye might have life in his name. [John 20:31 "Solve" John 1:1] "Same John" signed off in Revelation, that Jesus STILL "has a God in HEAVEN".... Rev 1:1 the revelation 👨🏼🦳God gave 🤴🏼Jesus Christ, to show John and followers what must soon take place 👉👨🏼🦳Him who is, and who was, and who is to come,👈 and from the seven spirits before his throne, and to 🤴🏼Jesus Christ the faithful witness and first born from the dead. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve 👨🏼🦳His God and Father, to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. 7 “Look, he 🤴🏼{CHRIST}is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all people on earth “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be! Amen. 8“👉👨🦳I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” YHWHGod is the Alpha/Omega is the giver of this "prophecy". Jesus is the first witness, the first born from the dead, The Lamb. 🤴🏼 We we're grafted into rational Messianic AND Monotheistic, functioning hierarchy, not a "pre-flood Hindu Trinity".🤮 (Rev. 21,22 YHWHGod is referenced as “the beginning and the end.” (Rev. 21,22 & 60+times elsewhere) Rev 3:2 Be constantly alert, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of 👉My God. Revelation 3:12 The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of 👉👨🦳"My God". Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of 👉"My God", and the name of the city of👉 "My God", the new Jerusalem, which comes down from👉🤴 "My God" out of heaven, and "My New Name". (2 separate individuals) Rev 3:21 KJV To him that overcomith , will I grant to sit with me on🔥"My Throne"🤴🏼; even as I also overcame, and am set down with 👉"My Father" on his throne👨🏼🦳. "2 Separate Thrones"! 🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘 Matthew 19:28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the 👉"Son Of Man👈 will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. AGAIN: Acts 7:55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the "Glory of God, and 🔥"Jesus standing" at the right hand of 👉God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and 🤴"The Son of Man, "Standing" at the right hand 👉of God.”👨🦳 Here's where we find Jesus in the O.T. Daniel 7:9-14 “As I looked, “thrones were set in place, and the👉 👨🏼🦳"Ancient of Days" took his seat.(YHWH) His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. 10. A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened. 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a 🤴🏼"Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the 👉"Ancient of Days"👨🏼🦳 and was led into his presence. 14 (Jesus)🤴🏼He was given Authority, glory and sovereign power; All Nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an Everlasting Dominion that will not pass away, and His Kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. 👆Jesus left his disciples in Galilee & Rhode a cloud to heaven & was presented before YHWH God So to recap ALL of Johns Books 1,2,3, & Revelation, taught Jesus/Yeshua "has a God'. As well as "ALL 9 Authors & 27NT Books", consistently taught: Jesus "has a God". Clement, was Apostle Peters Secretary, And mentioned in Philippians 4:3 RSV Phlip.4:3 And I ask you also, true yokefellow, help these women, for they have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life. Clement was trained by James, Paul, Zacchaeus, AND "Apostle Peters Scribe". Clement of Rome 60-90AD 30+years till martyred. 1 Clement 59:4 "Let all the Gentiles know that Thou art the God alone, and Jesus Christ is Thy Son." Clement "echos Jesus in: John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent." Clement ran the first church however, Polycarp did have some interactions with the apostle John. Martyrdom of Polycarp (120-140AD) O Lord God Almighty, Father of your beloved and blessed Son Jesus Christ, through whom we have received knowledge of you, the God of angels and powers and of all creation, and of the whole race of the righteous who live in your presence, I bless you…I glorify you, through the eternal and heavenly high priest, Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with him and the Holy Spirit, both now and for the ages to come. Amen Justin First Apology 61* (160AD) There is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. For no one can utter the name of the ineffable God…And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed. Martyrdom of Ignatius 2 (120 AD?) Thou art in error when thou callest the daemons of the nations gods. For there is but one God, who made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that are in them; and one Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, whose kingdom may I enjoy. Also if anyone is interested in 🫴🏼"Peters apologetics" , such as Peter and Simon Mangus discussing creation, Proving Jesus is the messiah, polytheism etc look up 🔍New Advent site OR Bible Hub, and look up 🔎Clement Homily. Clement penned almost 20 Books of Apostle Peter's apologetics. God bless.
Thru worship and song I have received several miraculous healings. I wasn’t worked up into a “frenzy”. With that being said, I have in the past seen “song leaders” try and work people up into a worship frenzy and always thought if that is what it takes to get people to worship then that is not true worship. We come together with worship in our hearts.
Thanks for this you two! This came up as a suggested video, and I greatly enjoyed hearing your testimony. My husband and I left the UPCI over a year ago after being raised in it for 30+ years. Our story is so similar to yours as far as what God revealed to us through His word. It’s amazing how God writes such unique stories for each of us, and yet they are also so similar. So thankful for God’s grace, His patience in our sanctification, and the beauty of resting in the assurance of our salvation. God bless you both!
It's so encouraging to hear about others leaving, especially those that have been raised in it for so long. What a beautiful testimony to come to a full understanding of His grace and love. We pray the Lord blesses the continuation of your journey. Thank you so much for sharing!
justin and tiffany my wife and i have a similar story like yours we spent 28 yrs in the upci and did everything the pastor asks to do we taught classes we gave money did music when our son married a girl from another faith and we visited there church the pastor said we had to choose our church or our family we believed god first family second then your church in that order so we left the upc my ? to you were are you attending now and are you happy
This is a disheartening story. But choosing family over church must have been a beautiful display of love to/for your children. What a testimony! We are in transition still, but no longer believe in the requirement of membership to a "church". We plan to talk about this more in a future video. Thank you for sharing! God bless...
@justinandtiffany hu Justin and Tiffany. So glad to watch you and your stories. I came out with so much that I went through. I don't even know what I believe anymore. I will always believe in one God, and I will always believe in baptism in Jesus name. However I do not believe in the way it's taught from the UPC. We can talk about it further if you'd like
Growing up in the UPCI, as a youth I was taught that you had to speak in tongues everyday to get that “renewing” as you say and I just couldn’t do that sometimes no matter how much I prayed. And so I always felt like a failure and that there was something wrong with me as an individual. I appreciate these videos and I’ve been watching Responsible Faith with Deanna Jo also. I’m just at that point where I’m searching out the scriptures for myself and asking the lord to help me see the truth. I believe there are a lot of people in the UPCi who are genuine and who really do love the lord. But I believe there has been a lot of damage done. There is some unlearning that I have to do. Especially in truly understanding God’s love and Grace.
We can relate to your tongues experience! And thank you for sharing. The Lord will absolutely help you see truth in scripture, and to correctly exegete what God the Holy Spirit meant for us to glean/apply. His love and grace are beautiful gifts, and given to us for free! Praying for you and your journey. ps...Deanna helped me (Tiff) a ton! Thankful you found her channel.
I wasn't raised in Pentecost. I spoke in tongues or glosselia for the first time in someone's living room during a Bible study before I had ever been in a pentecostal church. I was in the Apostolic church for 10 years and left 4 months ago over not seeing the fruit of the Spirit displayed. However, I know my experience was valid and also Paul said he doesn't understand what he's saying when speaking in tongues but the Spirit does. To not forbid speaking in tongues. Now, I also know I can somewhat stir up this "gift" especially in times of brokenness and a need for comfort. When it happens tho, it is supernatural and I usually pour tears and feel all the feelings. I don't depend on it for faith but certainly do appreciate the comfort I feel the release of negativity that comes with it. So if this is a "pagen" practice or of the Charasmatic Christian viewpoint, I don't know. Either way, I still practice and will continue practice this yet will not spew it as something God requires for salvation or even a gift everyone must have.
@@SonnyNyet2327 you do not realize that the last part that you quoted from Acts 2:38 is not actually in the Bible. Read it for yourself, you are quoting a doctrine. I was raised UPC and was shocked to find that it does NOT say “with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues.” Acts 2:38 also does not say “must” receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, it says “shall/will.” Which means if you do the first 2 that God WILL give you the Holy Ghost.
@@LifewithJennyintheUSA they also add " What must we do ....""TO BE SAVED"""" . This is not what it says . Also we REPENT " BECAUSE OF ( for ) the remission of sins . !!
@@LifewithJennyintheUSA aaamen to every word you just spoke ! I to was raised PENTECOST however after my own salvation I learnt the truth . I was saved upon repentance and was INSTANTLY changed . AFTER I OBEYED his word exactly 3'months later I received tongues of the holy ghost . After that I became bold in the Lord and started having prophetic VISIONS and dreams galore . Tongues are gave to those that OBEY just as the Bible states ... You get them because you are saved not to get saved !!!!
Love your videos - I have watched all of them!! 😊. I was in the UPCI for 25 years. I graduated from JCM, was an AIM worker, and leadership. I left the UPCI for the same exact reason as you. I am now a minister in a different denomination and so much happier. GRACE!! Never even knew what that meant in the UPCI. I really love all of your videos and hope to one day see “cinnamon roll Saturday” videos again soon!! Blessings to you both!! 😊
Hi Justin and Tiffany - I left the UPCI about 15 years ago and I am now an Orthodox Christian. Like you and others, I had a lot of theological and soteriologically unpacking to do. I am not bitter towards the organization… but there is life and salvation apart from the organization. Thank you for sharing your journey. Many of the things you have mentioned in this video are things I have discussed. Be encouraged. Lovingly - Lee.
Thank you Lee! What a blessing to hear that your faith continues. And as far as unpacking goes, seems like there are still boxes you find in the attic on the 2nd/3rd/4th time around, ha! But what a wonderful process to learn things that were never shared or taught in some of these systems. We really appreciate you watching and sharing! God bless.
My mom started going to the UPC church in 1974, when I was 4. She was widowed in 1994. She died in 2021, still so much a firm believer in the ways of the UPCI church and I left well over 20 years ago. I watched her struggle as an elderly, single woman of the church who'd been ever so faithful and they made sure that they beat the tithes out of her every chance they got. If she missed giving them her tithes just one time and she would come up short, she would be put into a place of guilt because she didn't pay her dues. God was punishing her, because she didn't give what he gave her. I HATED it so much!! I watched her struggle. But she never let us talk about it in a bad light. Those people she served for 47 years. She served God with all of her heart, but she was really serving men in that organization. When she died, not one of them called, nobody came, nobody sent a card, a flower. It was pitiful. Her faith never waivered. I'll never forget.
Oh we are so very sorry to hear this! Stories such as these are among the saddest experiences in these high-control systems. What a disgrace. Thank you so much for sharing! These accounts are so important for those that are questioning, and for those that are leaving ❤️
Speaking about ‘speaking in tongues’ is wonderful. That is why so many Pentecostals stay in the church. They truly feel it is the evidence that the Pentecostal doctrine is ‘the truth’
That’s interesting as that was one of the top 3 reasons I left the UPCI. People clearly and flagrantly disrespecting the Holy Spirit by faking speaking in tongues and faking “slain in the spirit.”
Hey Tiffany and Justin, it's Tori. I am really thankful for you posting this. I saw your part 1 to this as well as your interview with Deanna. I just want to say I'm really happy that you found a more vibrant, authentic path and managed to break free from the oppression of the church we were in. I left shortly after I started college because when I started attending the Woodland church, it dawned on me how weird and not right it all was. However, much like Tiffany I had been questioning it prior to that. Moving is what officially gave me the fresh perspective and strength to actually leave. Tiffany, your experience deeply resonates with me. Hearing your story has been extremely encouraging and healing for me and I would love the chance to speak to you personally to tell you how much it has blessed me. Overall, very happy for you guys and thankful that you have provided this video as a resource for others who need it. My mom and I watched both of your videos as well as your interview with Deanna, and my mom said "Thank you for showing me that -- watching that made my night! It was like church -- like un-church!" I replied, "We got un-churched!" Lol. Not only have you escaped the bondage of the UPCI Doctrine and organization, but you talk about it with such peace and grace. Not very many people in this world understand how mind-boggling it is to go through something like this. It is very encouraging to see. Good stuff!
Thank you for your kind words, Tori. We appreciate you watching and sharing! We would love to connect with you when we’re in town next! I’ll message you on IG with our future dates. Love and miss you lots. Praying for you and your journey ❤️
I’m an ordained oneness Pentecostal minister. These are valid criticisms, we ought to do better. There are so many great people within the upci. When you mix dispensationalism with revival culture, you end up calling things “deep” that are shallow and sad. 😢 I do differ on your explanation of tongues, my personal experience is much different, I can absolutely hear what you are saying. I’m wishing you the best. I’m staying as long as I can as a reformer. 😊
Thank you for sharing and understanding. There are wonderful people, Christian people sitting on UPC pews. And it's ok to differ, that's the beauty of the whole. We want to challenge and be challenged for sure. It is wonderful to hear that you are a oneness pentecostal minister and can agree that there are some disappointing practices. We pray that you are able to bring awareness while still in. Thanks again for sharing. God bless.
I live on the other side of the world and I wanted to learn about UPCI and I ran into this video. Your experiences made me remember the early years of my walk with God as a trinitarian pentecostal. I had the a similar experience. I thought that my emotional experiences meant being filled with the Holy Spirit. But I noticed that such an emotional high did not last long, but only for about 30 minutes aftery worship. I realized that it was not the Holy Spirit but my emotions. The Holy Spirit would not fill me for 30 minutes and then leave me empty.
A Call for Endurance: Revelation 14:12-13 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
I'm so happy for both of you! 🙌🏾 It's awesome to see couples that leave false doctrine and follow Christ. My husband and I are former Seventh-Day Adventists. There are many in these types of cults (yes, it's a cult) who don't always leave with their spouse and are even shunned by their spouse, family and friends who remain in the doctrine. I'm forever grateful God's grace allowed my husband and I to study the Bible, and see the error of SDA doctrine. I completely understand what you mean by not knowing the Gospel. Adventism has a different gospel, different Christ, and numerous strange teachings that are not Scriptural. Though you came out of UPC, there are many things you've touched on that are similar...bondage is real, but what a blessing to know that whom the Son sets free, is free INDEED!!! 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾 I continue to praise God for people who are leaving false teachings and place their faith and trust in Christ, our Redeemer, and Savior. 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾❤ New sub! 😁
Thank you so much for sharing! And for the subscription! You're right, it's not just one denomination out there leading people astray with their false doctrine. It's sad and unfortunate. Thank goodness for those standing up, and leaving unashamed. Thanks for watching/listening! We really do appreciate it!
No one has ever ever has tried to doctrine me of my heart about my life thru my Jesus or the UPC ! This was an amazing answer from Our Lord when I was 19 praying asking for him to show me the truth and what he wanted for me to know ❣️Then I met my husband his Mother was an evangelist she showed me the light on Jesus name my heart was right my One on One with my Lord Jesus he heard me ! I'm 74 not always where I should have been but just One day while laying in my hospital bed it was my alter my Lord brought me back to his heart knowing that he had never left me I left him he's always has been with me he's omnipresent in all of us ❣️I don't know what has happen in your life and pray for both but my life in the UPC has never ever be indoctrinated by my church 🙏 I want to say the Lord Jesus is my religion my church is my word where it says in the Bible "study and show thyself worthy rightly dividing the word of God " not Man so you stand where you want I stand on the Word the true message from My Lord Jesus 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙏❣️
I’ve had the Holy Ghost for 70 years, and I can truly say, “living for God is the work is of a life time!” I love living for Him! I can readily understand the serpent when he deceived Eve. “Thou shall not surely die.” I’m not saying that the UPCI is the only way to live to make it t heaven. But if one prays and want God to lead them, its a good group to be in. Group
My husband and I have just come to these exact same conclusions after actually reading and studying the Bible. We left a month ago after 25+ years. Haven’t felt this amount of peace and joy and FREEDOM in my life until having the relationship I have with Jesus now.
Don’t take this wrong, but it took you 25 years to figure out the church you’re attending doesn’t quite follow the Christian Bible Try reading just the Hebrew Bible you call it the Old Testament. Get to know the Old Testament as thoroughly as you probably know the New Testament and then make sure they complement each other. There’s literal Christian Bible verses that go against Old Testament teachings. If you dig, you’ll find them you’re on the right track. THE LAW “Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long.” Psalms 119:97 NIV Vs. “For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”” Galatians 3:10 NIV “I hate double-minded people, but I love your law.” Psalms 119:113 NIV Vs. “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” Romans 10:4 NKJV “Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek out your decrees.” Psalms 119:155 NIV
question? did Jesus contradict Malachi 5:5-6 because he clearly stated who that scripture was talking about and it was not literally Elijah. So there is no contradiction it’s just that people are not seeing it in the spiritual sense because it takes the spirit
I was raised in UPCI. The speaking in tongues is a beautiful, Biblical experience that I quite cannot get away from. I was a theistic satanist for over 8 years before I came to Jesus Christ and one day while I was praying and repenting to Jesus Christ, I began to speak in a language I never learned before. It was a beautiful, powerful experience that is rooted in the Book Of Acts. A careful study will render that the miracle was not just Jews that heard them speak in their own language but rather it was also the Apostles and others that “began to speak with other tongues.” Tongues is not evil. Can some tongues be of the devil? Yes. Some tongues can be. But realize that Satan always has a counterfeit to something as beautiful as the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Amen! The baptism of the H.G. is a divine experience for all to receive and experience but it was His shed blood (not speaking in tongues) that washed away my sins making my salvation possible. Rom 6-8.
@@trevino965 Jesus’ last words at the Last Supper can help put the pieces together. In John 7:38-39 Jesus said he that believeth on me as the Scriptures hath said out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit which they which believe on Him should receive. For the Holy Ghost was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified.” Yes, I believe whole heartedly that His death, burial and resurrection secured my salvation but also that Jesus died for the joy that was set before him. What was that joy? Well, I believe it was the joy of being able to impart His Spirit. Jesus is unique in that He had a second set last words before He ascended to heaven. He said for us to wait for a promise until we are endured with power from on high. Pentecostals simply believe that we must believe wholeheartedly in Jesus, confess with our mouth that He is Lord, ask Him to reign over lives and then carefully follow the pattern of His death, burial and resurrection in Scripture. Peter told us to Repent, be baptized every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ (for the remission of sins) (emphasis mine) & ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. This promise of tongues gives us power to become witnesses, it is the reason the veil was split into two and we could enter into the Holiest of Holies. The gift of the Holy Ghost is not for a select few but rather it is for all of us who believe in Jesus. John 7:38-39, Acts 2:38-39
You both seem very nice and not psychos like i'm used to. I studied tongues independently (am upc 28 years) and concluded there may be two types of tongues, based on looking at the Greek and the context. The gift as at Pentecost and the prayer language that i have experienced without forcing it. I am open to learning what i might have not understood but yeah that's where i landed on that.
@@Robert-55not true, the Bible talks about a form of tongues that is a heavenly language only god can understand, who are you to tell what is that heavenly language and which is not?
@@Robert-55Speaking in " tongues" sounds like " gibberish" to those who don't realize what it is and haven't spoke in "tongues" themselves. Speaking in " tongues" is actually one spiritual language whose source is our spirit. Paul refered to it as praying in the spirit( 1Cor.14:2,14) in a language," no man knows". If no man knows this language then it is not one native to this world. Paul said that when he spoke in this language," ..my spirit prays but my understanding is unfruitful.." ( 1Cor.14:14). In other words he didn't understand what he was saying. No one is born physically speaking in this language but, in time, their native language thats' source is their mind. What causes a believer to first speak in this spiritual language is as a result of recieving the Holy Spirit. To recieve the Holy Spirit is to have the Spirit join with your spirit as the result of the Holy Spirit baptism. This is a scripturally backed system of interpreting scripture called The Law Of Repetition. According to this law the Word will repeat something said,and/ or an event three times to: 1) Direct our attention to an important spiritual truth. 2) To set a precident so that when this situation occurs elsewhere in scripture that it need not be explained in this much detail. There are only three instances,in scripture, of believers recieving the Holy Spirit and what happened the moment that they recieved, Acts ch.2,10,and ch.19. In each instance the first thing that happened was that they spoke in " tongues".
@@Robert-55 here’s the thing, speaking in tongues is a lot of time faked, but mine was not fake, and your blowing off the direct Bible quote I gave of it being a heavenly language, it is not real tongues if you are doing it on command
@@Robert-55 What does the Bible say? Well the Bible mentions that form of tongues so… if you don’t believe the Bible there is no reason to be here arguing, there is literally no value in your word to this conversation if you don’t believe in Jesus and the Bible.
If one studied Parham and read the facts about him, you’d see he is not one that anyone should be affiliated with. You can request records from the San Antonio, Texas police department and read his statement on the despicable crime he committed while there. Seymour was his prized student. There are countless statements from well respected figures that Azusa street was a perverse environment at times. Considering how Parham acted, it is paramount to note that Parham stated he was disgusted with Azusa street and he denounced Seymour as a fraud and perverse individual. Let that sink in. Parham was a sick, disgusting man, and *he* said Seymour was perverse!
@@kchilz32I can’t post links on here or my comment will automatically get deleted. You have to type in Charles Fox Parham sodomy. A lot of the articles are written by Pentecostals in an effort to debunk or downplay it. Once you find the originals that are backed up with actual evidence from the police department (his confession, newspaper reports,etc) you begin to see exactly what these UPCI maniacs are founded upon. Parham was a child rapist and Seymour was a social outcast and sexual deviant that used perverted tactics to manipulate the public into believing their methods were legitimate. One of the most respected examples came from a Pastor who heard about Azusa st and traveled to see it in person. What he discovered was filth. Seymour would preach and then retire to his room and have relations with the countless women who were entranced by his message and fallen under the influence of the theatrics and atmosphere. The Pastor goes on to explain that he was disgusted by the Azusa st guise as it was nothing more than a fantasy world for a sick man (Seymour). Other sources go on and on in regards to what really happened there. Do some digging. It was a interesting read to learn the truth.
Thank you for sharing!!! I went to a funeral yesterday and was talking with a relative of my husband. She left the UPC and we left Jehovah's Witnesses. So many similarities. We officially left January 1, 2022. Jehovah's Witnesses view us as apostate because we are no longer one of them, and do not believe in their doctrines. We are more convinced of our salvation now, dig deeper into scripture (not JW literature), and follow Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life rather than a group of men who believe they are substitutes for Christ. The freedom, peace, and joy are a precious blessing 🙏
Amen!! Thank you for watching and for sharing. There are so many similarities with these man-made organizations. We are praying for freedom for all those involved. May God bless your journey ❤️
I'm feeling every single thing you're saying. We have just recently left our church operating much the same way. oh my goodness! and the shunning began the moment they even sensed us pulling away.
it was said that we are "operating in a spirit of Jezebel" and that because we have "separated ourselves from the fellowship, we are knowingly walking in sin for which there is no forgiveness." We did not separate from THE church. We immediately sought out a Bible preaching / teaching church who welcomed us with open arms. How refreshing! Thank you for sharing and bringing clarity to so many things. God bless you and yours!
Thank you for sharing! And we are so sorry about the shunning. Unfortunately, it is a very real thing that happens. Thank God we aren't disfellowshipped from HIS church. We pray your journey and faith continue on. God bless!
I have several friends in the UPCI. I am Reformed Baptist. I used to be General Baptist until I started listening to men of other denominations like J.I. Packer, he was Anglican but his book Knowing God is one of the best I have ever read. John MacArthur is non denominational and he has a book to pentecostals called Strange Fire which is excellent as is every other book he has written! And R.C. Sproul was Presbyterian and he has some excellent stuff as well. Erwin Lutzer has a book called Rescuing the Gospel and that has some good church history in it. All of these guys have disagreements on some theological matters but nothing that would make them a heretic. I am no longer dispensational because that was invented in the 1800s. I read a book by Duncan Shennea called Prophecy without panic: a brief introduction to partial preterism and Gary DeMar has a book Last days madness: obsession of the modern church which is really good. Are you familiar with Charles Spurgeon or J.C. Ryle? The Puritans? Reformers? They all have excellent material that is a theological goldmine! I was challenged about my faith by a upci person telling me I was not saved and I am grateful because it really led to me discovering all that I have said in my comment and really helped me grow in Christ and find out about true Christianity and what I believe. John MacArthur also has a sermon on oneness pentecostals you may be interested in. Paul Washer and Tim Conway are 2 other good pastors on youtube. Sorry for the long comment, God bless you both!!!
wow youre in a cult yourself brother, so youre not qualified to be giving advice. Reformed Calvinism teaches God hates 99% of the human race, and that Christ died only for the ones he chose. Thats NOT what the bible teaches. They also teach we are BORN GUILTY of adams sin, and if a baby dies and its not "elect" if goes to hell. (read ezek 18;19-23) as far as dispensationalism. it is a framework for understand how God work in different parts of history. using that framework or not using it isnt a big deal. Also, "Reformed Baptist" is an oxymoron. You cant be both Reformed and Baptist at the same time. To base your beliefs on John Calvin, who killed, jailed or banished anyone who didnt attend HIS church is just as bad if not worse than any cult being discussed here. Go back to your general Baptist church where they teach God's love for ALL, and that ANYONE can be saved
As a Christian I visited a Apostolic Church in Las Vegas, all was good for a couple months, nice friendly people. One day the pastor mentioned knowoneone really knows the 7 seals in Revelations. I saw him in the parking lot, mention that Willaim Branham had the best explanation of the 7 seals I ever heard. I also told him about William Branhams sermon called serpent seed. 2 weeks later the pastor got on stage yelling that he did not believe in these teachings, He then came to me and said I heard those sermons and told me not to come back to church...real brotherly love I tell ya. I had simply gone to fellowship with other like minded folks and never try to change their beliefs, this is what religion does. I witnessed all you describe in your videos, thankfully I had the God given knowledge to see past it. William Branham used to say go to a church if you don't agree take what you can and have love for each other. He always loved people but spoke against organized religion. He had a gift of healing, prayed for my dying grandmother, she was healed that day and lived 60 more years to testify Hebrews 13:8 is true. God Bless you two.
@@endtimesnowwithjohnnybargo3028 He told me their version on the serpent seed, he said there are two seeds, God and Adam. I asked were evil came from then, he said Adam. If that were the case then all of us including all the Prophets through the only testament would have been evil and that Jesus was the only true seed. The Bible shows plainly it came from their sons Cain and Abel. All the lineage from Cains side was evil he is the one that went out from the presents of the Lord. Since he killed his brother Abel watch Seth's side how, all those good people up to Christ started with Seth, you have to follow the bible lineage of both seeds, it makes perfect sense.
@@endtimesnowwithjohnnybargo3028 You are correct but one needs to look into the lineage to make sense out of it. There are many religious organizations that believe Eve ate a apple but there is no scripture to support that idea. I'm glad at least you guys left that religion and serving God instead of the world. I feel for may good people in many different religions that may not know any better, God Bless You.
THE LAW “Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long.” Psalms 119:97 NIV Vs. “For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”” Galatians 3:10 NIV “I hate double-minded people, but I love your law.” Psalms 119:113 NIV Vs. “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” Romans 10:4 NKJV “Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek out your decrees.” Psalms 119:155 NIV
One truth that I found after leaving my UPC , is that Salvation is a work of God the Father , Jesus Christ , an d the Holy Spirit . In order to experience that work ,someone must simply come to a place of complete repentance .
You are describing many church culture organizations. There is a great divide within the UPCI church. Those that are sincerely seeking and those that are determined to keep their religion.
Did you even watch the video😩 they are still Christian just not in the UPC which btw I’m it sure if you know this being part of the UPC is not a requirement to get into heaven
I didn't struggle leaving. I just walked out and never went back. I have been treated so bad by those people. I was treated as an outcast because I grew facial hair. I was no longer considered a brother. I was set down one night because I sang in the choir, and I didn't have a coat on. That hurt me so bad. One night I was at the alter, And because some didn't think I was right, a woman walked by me and actually hit me in the head with her Bible. I walked out of that church and never went back. I have problems with their teaching that everyone else is going to hell if they aren't baptized in Jesus name or if you don't speak in tongues. You're controlled and you can't go visit another church without being called into the office. Me and a couple friends went to McDonald's one night after church. The pastor found out about it and we were called into the office and the pastor said we can't do that. He said they went out to a certain restaurant every Sunday night and we had to go with them. I definitely see why it's considered a cult. Thanks for y'all sharing and listening to me
You can eat wherever you want. They believe some crazy stuff the upc leadership. I can't believe some of it and didn't know about it until after a long time in it, things started revealing themselves.
These stories are mind-blowing! I know this stuff happens, some crazy stuff happened to me personally as well, but it's still always a shock to me when I hear/read others' tales. Controlling your restaurant choice, seriously. How in the world is it okay to treat people like this?!? Good for you for walking out! We wish we would have done the same a long time ago. It means a lot when people share, so thank you so much! And thank you for listening/watching! God bless...
I haven't attended upc for a few years now due to seeing things myself, but cannot getmy head around tithing. I know in scripture it does not exist, but i feel horrible if i don't send at least a tenth by internet banking. Call it psychological, i don't know. Been struggling with it for years. I guess I feel at least i'm serving God in some way by doing it. If i don't send money, i'm really doing nothing for God.
And that's just the way they want you to feel. We had a pastor that if you didn't pay your tithes, he would have you come into a meeting so he could go over your checkbook! I kid you not! Salvation is through faith and the grace of God. It has NOTHING to do about any money you give or don't give.
UPC here, the apostles doctrine was their lifestyle. If u keep reading acts read how they have to the widows, orphans and poor aka homeless. This isn’t preached but I have hope they will start. Young ppl are starting to speak out
I think a connection can be made going back to the post reformation period that gave us the pietist movement that gave us the holiness movement which morphed into Pentecostalism. I can appreciate what the original pietists were trying to do. They were coming against a dead confessionalism that had no heart and had become cold and lifeless. It’s always about balance in my opinion.
I do have a question regarding the Holy Ghost. Do you believe in it or not? Just wondered what your thoughts were on John 3:5? Jesus' own words are spoken here that a person won't enter the kingdom of God except he is born of water and of the spirit. Just curious as to your belief on the Holy Ghost.
John 3:5 has been the source of confusion and even the borderland of controversy...that being said I tend to believe that if you interpret this passage through the lens of the entire Bible, it tends to make better sense. (I'm no Bible scholar and even commentaries differ in their interpretations.) Some believe Jesus is speaking of two different things when he mentions water and spirit. Some even believe he's referring to the difference between your first birth, water, or natural (not baptism) and your second birth, of spirit, or spiritual. I tend to believe Jesus is talking about the same thing when referring to water and spirit in the passage. Jesus does rebuke Nicodemus in v. 10 for not understanding what he's talking about, being that he was a teacher of the Old Testament. Also we know from other NT passages (John 3:16; John 3:36; Eph 2:8-9; Titus 3:5) that salvation is by faith and not water baptism. I've heard one pastor say, ...saved people get baptized. I think gotquestions.org does a good job laying all this out. (bit.ly/John3_5) And, I also encourage you to read some of the respected commentaries on this passage as well. I believe you are filled with the Holy Spirit when you are saved...repentance and belief in Christ as Lord and Savior. -JB
@@justinandtiffany "I believe you are filled with the Holy Spirit when you are saved..." Could you tell me how to be saved? What is a biblical explanation of salvation?
@@timothyacademy1372 its been 7 days now and no response to you yet or anyone that, respectfully, is asking for an explanation. Their years of bad experiences along with finding that many of the Standards are unbiblical and hyper-spiritualized has made them turn against sound doctrinal Truths.
@@mikeeagan1307 I would have a tendency to concur...We were in it for 34 years plus. Many get so jaded and go their path, but nonetheless, God and his true church will endure to the end. They don't understand that you can come out and forgive what happened and move forward with very sound doctrine and a love and forgiveness to those who trespassed against them. We are to hold tight to what is true and let God take up our battles. Our family can tell "horror" stories, but we recognize that God himself brought us out of it and we forgive and move on. I honestly hurt for these people, but they have to decide what is motivating them to expose others. Is it for reconciliation, revenge, etc.? Only they and God know.
First of all, I doubt Jesus actually said anything in the gospels, especially John, as it was written about 70 years after Jesus died. Definitely not verbatim. No one was taking notes at the time. Second, while Paul and the author of John don't necessarily follow the same theology, John 3:5 needn't be any more than an affirmation of 1 Corinthians 15:42-46, where we die in a physical body, but are resurrected in a spiritual body. That plus baptism, which Paul was also all about.
I left because every time I tried to find scripture to show other Christians Apostolic teachings, I would keep seeing discrepancies. I had spent several years attending other Pentecostal churches and those teachings seemed more to line up with scripture.
Scripture doesn’t say the gift of tongues it says the gift of the Holy Spirit. If the indwelling of the Holy Spirit happens at conversion ask why did they ask in scripture HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT WHEN YOU FIRST BELIEVED?
Speaking in tongues is a spiritual gift according to 1 Cor. 12. Does every believer get this gift? The implied admonition from Paul clearly states that not all receive this gift. Also, the scripture you reference about asking the disciples that Paul found in Ephesus in Acts 19 if they had received the Holy Spirit yet? These were disciples of John the Baptist, not Christ. V4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.
@@justinandtiffany verse 10, verse 28 & verse 30 of 1st Corinthians 12 are a correspondence of each other asking do all speak with DIVERSITY of tongues not merely speaking in tongues this is what it means when it finally ask do all speak with tongues it was a correspondence just as all the other questions were a correspondence. Many get this twisted & usually it’s people who themselves do not speak in tongues. Jesus said himself YE SHALL SPEAK IN TONGUES. This is for all saints ! Seek the Lord on this. Isaiah even prophesied about it. And I say this as one who isn’t UPI or Apostolic just another disciple of Jesus that’s all.
I have a question, if someone can help. I too attended a world outreach Pentecostal church for several decades, the "presence" of entering this church was very strong. People actually did get healed at Friday night miracle services, i know i was one of them, yet they did emphasize speaking in tongues and getting slain in the spirit, paying tithes, it was a very blessed experience yet much of what is taught is in error.... eventually the pastor was caught in a scandal, so can someone explain to me what is going on, it's either from God or its not from God and i can't tell you it is or its not, totally confused, thank you.
I was 4th generation in the upci. I would encourage you to research Martin Luther a little more and the reformation. Find out who the church was for the first 1000 years of Christianity. I found it!
I don’t know the people in this video or the people that offended them, what I do see from listening to them is that they were offended and worse they never learned to forgive. And now they are lashing out at former church friends former close church members, and so offended they want to come back and hurt these UPC folk at any expense.
Okay. You disagree with the UPC, for whatever and various reasons. Move on and be happy. Why do you feel the need to bring disunity to the body of Christ by condemning what many have experienced as Biblically true? There seems to be an internal struggle with your own conscience. Instead of being negative toward the UPC, why not spend your time being positive about your new belief? I received the Holy Ghost when I was 22 years old in a UPC church. That was 35 years ago. I'm still in the same UPC church. And I'm fully and 100% convinced that the UPC teaches the truth. And I am happy and full of the joy of the Lord. I used to be Baptist. But I don't spend my time condemning the Baptist church on why they are in error. I share the truth without condemnation of others, due to a clear conscience. By the way, Oneness Pentecostalism is one of the fastest growing Christian movements in the world today. Of course, in my opinion, it's a God thing. P.S. Spirit-filled Paul and Barnabas departed asunder. So you can be a 'Pentecostal' and still have human emotions.
By lashing out at former church friends and trying to lure others away from this group now you have to stand before God, leave your gift at the alter go forgive these UPC people and stop attacking them and live for God.
Amen. I stopped agreeing with them when the book of acts in regards to speaking In tongues was not being accurately used and taught. Jesus came in flesh of God o teach relationship, not religion. My father is a minister and I’ve grown up in non-denominational church. There was a time when I started going to full gospel tabernacle and I felt the Holy Spirit but the judgment I felt from the people there was unlike any I’ve ever felt in any church anywhere else. Justin , your parents, the Bowser‘s, always always showed love to me. And your parents to Tiffany. However, many rules were double standards. I’m grateful for the two of you teaching truth. There are many different gifts of the Holy Spirit. Just like there are many different parts to the family in Christ. Love you both!!!
Love you brother and sister. I also came from oneness pentecostal church . I was raised there my siblings were born and raised in a oneness pentecostal church. I feel bad for those who are imprisoned of the lies of oneness pentecostals.
I have mixed emotions as I listen to this. Grew up an Assemblies of God preacher's kid. Felt a crazy amount of pressure to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit at camp as a kid. I totally agree with you regarding the way worship has been hijacked by a desire to fit in with pop culture, etc. However...I don't agree with you regarding tongues. It does not have to be a literal foreign language. The Scriptures also speak of tongues as a prayer language, we're instructed to sing in the Spirit, etc. My own Holy Spirit baptism happened in a miraculous way IN MY FIFTIES at home worshiping at the piano in my bedroom. When I was totally not even expecting it. Anyway...agree with a lot of what you're saying and questioning (including tithing and the manipulation that has taken place around that). But I just can't throw away the spiritual gifts and the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit.
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
So you can say those in the upper room were also waiting for something “extra”. What say you about that, then? You made it up. That’s on you. There’s MANY folks that have gotten the Holy Ghost with the EVIDENCE of speaking in tongues.
The difference that I can see is that Jesus tell to his disciples to wait there because He'll going to send the Holy Spirit. So that day on Pentecost the fulfilment of Joel's profecy take place. After that just happened 3 mor times and it was not necessary any more as a sign for the unbelievers to knows that the Holy Spirit was spread over judios y gentiles, but that's it. At the point that Paul say that every person that born again is baptized (sumergido) un the Holy Spirit but He give the different Gives to whoever He wants, not every one most to speak in tongues and Paul even say that is not so important as prophecy😅
Thank you for the video. Trying to leave UPCI but been very difficult for me. I just have to leave because this church is trying to destroy my marriage.. never known a church to do this. I need help!
Oh, we are so very sorry to hear this. The UPC can be very destructive to marriages, spouses, and homes. We have experienced this first-hand! Please know that we will be praying for you and your situation.
Well I have been studying, but my understanding is that speaking in tongues was the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit and spiritual gifts were separate is this not correct? I’m confused could u guys please speak on this..your bro in Christ
So there is no confusion, I'll start with Paul's words in 1 Cor 1 14:39, "Forbid not to speak in tongues...". I do believe there was a true gift of tongues and its 's purpose was to build the early church and spread the Gospel. I also believe there is a counterfeit gift of tongues. Even Paul, early on, had to address the issue as some were using the gift wrongly, or out order. If it can be faked, then how do we know or determine what is biblical tongues or fake tongues? I think we can use the Bible to determine the how and why. That being said, I agree that in Acts, the gift of tongues (a sign gift) did accompany many (not all) accounts of the spreading of the Gospel to both Jew and Gentile. Other sign gifts, like miraculous healing, also accompanied the Apostles during their early missionary journeys. Later on, rather than "heal" Timothy of his ailments, Paul told Timothy to drink some wine instead. Acts 2 clearly describes the supernatural gift of tongues that was poured out on pentecost as being languages; men understood, marveled and were amazed that the Galileans spoke their native languages. Later in Acts, certain men wanted to purchase this gift; this being able to speak a foreign language. This is even roots of the "modern charismatic movement" that started in Topeka, Kansas, with Charles Parham at Bethel Bible school and also Azusa Street. They were seeking this same gift and originally claimed that they could not only speak other languages, but also write them. But looking back to 1 Cor, Paul writes...Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? (1 Cor 12:29-30) In the Greek, these questions are answered with an implied and emphatic NO. Also, Tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, (1 Cor 14:22). All gifts were used for the building up of the body of Christ. How are you built up if don't understand what someone else is saying? Paul says... 1 Cor 14:3 Therefore, he who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how can any one in the position of an outsider say the “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may give thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all; 19 nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind, in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue. I think some of the confusion lies with the false understanding that there are two types of tongues or that the gift of tongues(known languages) is the not same as speaking in tongues personally(unknown). There is no biblical ground for this and in my study, only scripture, taken out of context, can be used to support this. There is no indication from the Scripture that it is ever privately exercised, only publicly. Paul also states that in church you are to “be quiet” if there is no one to interpret. It requires an invariable translation to be of help to the church. That is the true gift of tongues.
@@justinandtiffany In John 3: 8, Jesus makes a statement that ends with "So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." Which means the statement applies to EVERYONE who is born of the Spirit. You hear it's sound. He also said a person MUST be born of the Spirit if they are going to enter the Kingdom of God. Peter said what the people saw and heard (the thing that made some of the onlookers think they were all drunk, so not just "authoritative speaking") on the day of the Feast of Pentecost in Acts 2 was the fulfillment of the promise prophesied in Joel 2. That promise, that was seen and heard, God's Spirit being poured out, people being born of the Spirit, is unto "you and your children and to those far off" ect. Philip and the apostles knew those in Samaria (Acts 8) hadn't received the Holy Spirit yet, even though they all believed and had been baptized (literally immersed, specifically not sprinkled or poured) in the name of the Lord Jesus. How did Philip and them know that? That it hadn't happened yet? Because "So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." Interesting thing about the Gifts of the Spirit that you rightly point out is that they are specifically for the edification of the body. Yet there are instances where Paul mentions speaking in an unknown tongue as edifying only to the one who speaks it. Which is important, because what he is NOT saying is that it is pointless to do so. He also references speaking with the tongues of men or angles, so not limited to speaking "human languages" known or unknown to the speaker. Seems confusing until you realize that there IS a difference between the gift of tongues (meant for the body/church) and praying in the Spirit (meant for the individual). We should also note that Tongues meant for interpretation and an interpretation following so that everyone can understand what is being communicated isn't the only way the Gift of Tongues are used. There are diverse ways it can manifest. Like you point out - when God poured out His Spirit in Acts 2 there were a number of people who recognized the languages that were being spoken, no one had to pray for the interpretation. This shows there are different ways that this specific gift can manifest. Imagine a tree. When the wind blows and moves on the tree, it makes a sound, and you hear it. The tree is making the sound, but the wind is giving the utterance. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. If you can see a person as a tree, you are just one more touch from Jesus away from seeing the Kingdom.
@justinandtiffany So, I'm coming out of the UPC (raised in it from childhood, but in and out for many years since my teens, recently made the full choice to leave) I have also been studying etc, but but my understanding of tongues on a personal level, is the Holy Spirit praying through you, (there are various kinds of tongues also mentioned in Corinthians.) which I believe is still prevalent today. I've not spoken in tongues many times, but anytime I have, has not been 'faked'. However, I will say it happened at times that actually helped me in my walk with Christ and not all in a church setting. I believe this is where Romans 8:26-28 comes into play. I do not think it's right in the ways it's pushed within the UPC, because of how Paul addresses it in 1 Corinthians, but there's really no evidence that I've seen to support that the Holy Spirits gifts are not still at work, we can't put limits on God. However like I said, tongues has been widely pushed to the point of selfishness and self edification, producing no real fruit or growth within themselves or the church as a whole, because love is not there. (Love and selfishness cannot coexist) Unless I misunderstood what you were saying.. but other than that, I agree with everything else yall have said!
I actually enjoyed my time at a UPC church and I miss the passionate preachings but so many questionable doctrines and legalistic rules left me no choice but to leave. It’s false doctrine
I've been exploring my faith more than ever and I know someone that is a Oneness Pentecostal. She invited me to her church and I've been to some services and events. Very kind people and they do love Jesus, but it's not for me and I can't get behind it. I actually feel uncomfortable sometimes. The problem I have is that this doctrine didn't start until the 20th century specifically in the United States. It doesn't have the history and the direct line to the Apostles and the Church Fathers following them of the early centuries. It makes me ask the question, should I believe a doctrine that was started so late and started in the United States? Or should I follow more along the lines of people like Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch (literally came to the faith through John and was ordained by Peter and Paul as the Bishop of Antioch), or even Polycarp (literal disciple of John)? Doesn't add up to me
The apostles' doctrine which as written in the scriptures, is Repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name and receiving the Holy Ghost actually started in the book of Acts and is the only doctrine you find in the scriptures when one comes to Jesus. So, not sure what you're referring to when you say "it doesn't have the history and the direct line to the Apostles and the church fathers....when it absolutely does.... at least according to the what is written in the scriptures.
Okay, I am not the sharpest knife in the shed by no means:) HA! Also, I am currently seeking God and have been attending a Lutheran church for the past month and for some reason thus far, it is appealed to me. Of course, before a month or so ago I had not been to any kind of church faithfully/regularly in 12 or 15 years or so. Not because I stopped believing or anything, just backslide I guess one would say. Anyway, I grew-up like you all, oneness Pentecostalism and my understanding of the “speaking in tongues” part, has always been there are “tongues of men” as well as, “tongues of angels.” Which explains, supposedly; why individuals can speak in tongues, and it have nothing to do with prophecy and does not require interpretation. Unlike, another type of speaking in tongues which would indeed require interpretation. I have witnessed both these types in one service. Also, I hate to author a book, but I have so many questions😊 While I cannot remember scripture and verse, I can give you the gist of the best argument I have ever heard of speaking in tongues. Summed up, it is pretty much when an individual submits allowing God i.e., the “Holy Ghost” to take the most “unruly member of the body” and put it under subjection, the tongue. Now, I’m not trying to impart the Holy Spirit or anything here on RUclips, it’s just when folks mentioned the book of Acts and chapter two in the upper room where the Holy Spirit fell, I’ve heard you all and the sheer majority of people make the statement “speaking in tongues in the book of Acts was for them who were in the upper room at that time.” The words “at that time” has always bothered me. For example, I believe, it was for those people at that time, but does that mean it is not for anyone else? Ever? At any time? I don’t know man, I just don’t know, why can’t it be for anyone at any time if they can do it, but not everyone can do it I don’t think. It’s all so confusing sometimes for me. I have heard many people claim throughout my life, “oh, there just picking and choosing Bible verses they want to believe” I’m sure you all have heard that as well. I’m to the point where I think all denominations and the believers in them pick & choose.
Totally agree! I came out of UPC and now I don't know what to believe. There's a church on every street just about, and they all take the same bible and every denomination teaches they are the way! I don't think so!
In the book of Acts there were people that believed and had been water baptized, yet had not received the holy spirit. So the apostle laid hands on them and they received it. Does this not tell us that we don't have the Holy Spirit just because we believe? It does not say they spoke in tongues as an initial sign etc., but how did they receive it? How DO we know when someone receives it?
The Apostolic movement was not started from seeking extra but seeking that which they read about in Acts. There was a more vivid worship, there were tongues that the holy spirit gave. There was singing and dancing. Yall are sharing your unbelief not legitiment arguments that oppose. There is more in the scripture than the understandable tongues. There are examples of both
I grew up in a different oneness denomination (Pentecostal Assembly of Jesus Christ) which is much smaller, mostlyocated in Arkansas and Oklahoma. But ...same thing. I left a few years ago because of questioning the same things. I attend a United Methodist Church now, and am mich more apiritually healthy. Gosh, but how I miss Apostolic music!!!
Tiffany, You are adorable!!! What a darling couple! I wish you ONLY the very best of life and fun and enjoying all that this life has to offer! You're made to be unique beings that are created for your specific journey. Love you both!! -Lori
Chris Rosebrough is awesome I’m not Lutheran but I have Lutheran brothers in Christ I would probably identify as a reformed Baptist But I’m a member of a reformed Presbyterian church ( PCA) church We give a clear law/Gospel distinction. I was born and raised Pentecostal (assemblies of God) I came upon the first American school textbook. It started off with your abc’s And teaching you through the Westminster standards And from there, I was like, how have I never heard of this? Truly, Pentecostalism only goes back as far as the beginning of the 20th century
Thank you for sharing...it's important to know that pentecostalism is so similar across many denominations! They all think they have the ONE and only truth, haha. We are so appreciative to Chris and the work he does!
By grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone....believers :) Our podcast, Grace Escape (found on this channel) would probably provide more specifics, if you are interested.
Being raised in the UPC with UPC preachers on both sides of my family including my father.....I have to ask you...Have you ever thought that you were raised in a cult?
According to the word's definition....yes. However, we understand this word is very difficult to hear. We found Steven Hassan's BITE model (freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/) adequately describes what we were a part of growing up in the UPC, and in our opinion, is a more comprehensive, and maybe palpable, viewpoint.
How does one become saved? Born again? I hear a lot about works but James, Jesus' brother, said faith without works is dead. I hear a lot about the law but Jesus said if you look upon a woman to lust after her you have committed adultery already. It just seems to me that a lot of folks are looking for a watered-down version of Christianity.
I live in the twin cities area what kind of church that you attend now. I can garuntee while you have disagreements, that your church either has compromises and I don't mean standards, I mean sin and that we disagree with. The church doesn't teach that tongues is the power of sin but that the Spirit has power. Tongues are simply a sign. You don't have to speak in tongues everyday but as the Spirit gives utterance during prayer you will speak in tongues.
I was born Catholic and gone to several types of churches but never seen a church that didn’t have faults. Even the Acts church had problems if all you do is attack former churches you been to I see it as evil.
To be fair, that’s not all they do. They probably have a family they probably still at church. They probably still read their Bible. They probably still have friends. These all encompassing statements, really, do better
Could you possibly talk about what your marriage looked like when Justin left and how you handled that? I’ve been out for 17 years now and my husband and grown children and our grandchildren are still in. I am met with a lot of opposition when I ask my husband to read anything or study anything that isn’t OK'd by Mr. Benard.🙏🏻
We might go into some more detail in future videos, but we are always open for one on one conversations as well, if this would be helpful. Our email is justinandtiff (at) iCloud.com - replace the (at) with @. We are praying for you during this long journey. It is not easy and we understand ❤️
As soon I heard they're statments about tithing, I immediately knew these guys know nothing about the bible or understanding it. Dont be decived by people like these who claim a form of godliness but deny the power there of.
I am not sure which church you went to, but all the preachers I have heard teach to study yourselves that not to rely on the preacher. Also they are not topical, they use and teach hermaneutics and exegete in context. I here topical watered down grace messages in denominal churches including the largest, the non-denominal churches. To me it sounds like you didn't understand the reason for your belief and understanding.
Absolutely! You can email us at justinandtiff(at)icloud.com. Just replace the (at) with @, of course. From there, we can discuss other contact options, if needed 🙂
The UPC preaches repentance??? Wow....! We can't do anything on our own for the purpose of salvation....not even repent? Wow....! I don't know any church would preach that. If there is one denomination that would not preach repentance, I'd love to know who it is.
Don't know of the upc but anything you left that's affiliated with charismania!!!!....good for you,run like you've never run before!!!!Join a good Bible believing Baptist church.May the Lord guide you.God bless.
You were sinners. You have been saved by grace. You now are a co-heir with Christ. If you are "just a sinner saved by grace." Then by your own faith, you will keep sinning. You now are new creations. If you sin after salvation it is by your own choice, not a fallen nature. You have a new name and new nature. It takes a lot of faith in sin. To the point of subconscious worship of sin. To believe it can wash over the blood of Jesus once the blood of Jesus has been applied to your life.
Deuteronomy 13:1-5 13 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil[a] from your midst.
I was born and raised in the Greek Orthodox Church but I did not know Jesus Christ and of course I was taught that there was a trinity. I searched for spiritual truth in so many churches, then one day somebody invited me to a United Pentecostal church......WOW, I was so blown away! I was used to quiet non-emotional services,. I wanted to run out, yet I could not stop crying. I felt the love of God so strong and when it was over, I had a ton of questions.
My friends who invited me stayed with me after everybody left, so I wanted a scriptural answer for everything...and they gave it to me....from the lifting of the hands, to the lively music, to why there were no icons......on & on I asked and they answered showing me the verses.
We were the only one left in church, except for a long-haired guy who was kneeling at the altar all by himself, praying quietly for almost an hour.
All of the sudden he stood up, arms raised and he started speaking in some type of Asian language......and the guy looked to be anything from Asian. I asked my two friends what in the world was going on, and they told me that he had recently come back to church after being gone for years and what was happening, was that God was filling him with His Spirit, which the initial evidence is speaking on other tongues.....they they showed me Cornelius's experience in the Book f Acts.
I was a bit freaked out because I did not know anything about tongues, so I told my friends that I did not want to talk anymore because I felt so overwhelmed by everything. I closed my eyes and covered my face with my hands, and IN MY HEART I asked God if THIS was TRUTH.........nobody could hear me, only the Lord. Then about 30 seconds later, the guy up at the front with the ponytail started speaking in tongues VERY LOUD, and he said THREE times...."ALETHOS ALETHOS ALETHOS" which interpreted in Greek is "Truth Truth Truth" or "It is True" .....I was shocked and I asked my friends how did this guy know Greek? They said that he was not Greek! But even more so, that guy could not have heard the question that I asked the Lord from my heart.........then they showed me in the word that God can use tonues as a sign to an unbeliever. Well, to make a long story short, I went to church the next evening (they were having Revival services) and that I too received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit just like they did over & over in the Book of Acts. I was also Baptized in Jesus Name and I felt like a brand new person......in time, both of my Greek parents left the Greek church and they too were born again of Spirit and water. Serving the Lord in Apostolic Truth saved my life and the lives of my parents, because now we had eternal life. Jesus Christ is the love of my life and I thank Him for His Word, for my husband, children and Church family. I love people so much now and I LOVE to share the truth of God's Word with anyone that I can. And Yes, I still attend a United Pentecostal Church and I thank God for it and for His amazing love & mercy!
Amen!
Beautiful testimony! Best way to deal with this. Speak YOUR TRUTH!
Praise the Lord. Greeting from UPC Indonesia
So awesome! Greetings from UPCI Belgium
Thank you for sharing your Testimony🔥🔥❤ , Loved to hear about your personal experience ! God bless you - From UPCI in Florida 🤗
I was once Ordained in the UPCI, I sinned against God and left the church. I was arrested and sent to prison for 15 year. I was totally far from God. When I got out I didn't think a UPC or Apostolic church would welcome me back. So I attended a trinitarian Pentecostal Church for a couple of years. But I got tired of the watered down trinitarian preaching. So I came back to a United Pentecostal Church and I was welcomed back with open arms. The church I attend is a very loving church. I really don't want to ever preach again, I'm just so happy to be home again.
Just curious, Is your last name Davis?
They're Loving? How about their doctrine?
Strange question you don't have to answer but do you feel your involvement in the church is part of why you ended up in prison?
This is beautiful!
Praise the Lord. Greeting from UPC Indonesia 😇
I was raised Baptist and speaking in tongues changed my life.
@@Robert-55 “lukewarm”? The bible says something about that…
Tale as old as time. 🙌🔥
@@kelliez9991First day of the week causes lukewarmness. First day of the week (Protes emera tis evdomada in Greek) never once appears in the Greek Bible, nor any Greek Manuscripts. It's a big huge lie. The Greek Bible and Manuscripts all say Mia Sabbaton, Prote Sabbatou, Opse De Sabbaton, and Mian Ton Sabbaton instead of Protes emera tis evdomada. Sabbaths are commanded by Abba YaH to be 16-hour to 24-hour holy gatherings, to cease from all worldly distractions, to copy heaven on earth together until the Glory literally appears. The Whirlwind of Fire and the Cloud of Glory literally appears by praising YaH together for 10 to 12 hours, just like heaven. Exodus 16:9, Leviticus 23, Mathew 24:20 (context), Acts 1:12, to get ya started.
Have any of your "tongues" ever been interpreted? Hmmmm?
@@RobertEMason Better question, has anyone ever understood them in their own languages, speaking the oracles of God?
We left over 23 years ago and we had been in it for over 32 years. Much of what you are talking about is what was revealed to our family. God literally brought us out. We never looked back. Pagan Christianity is a very good book. When we got in the Word of God our eyes began to open. Men pleasing, etc., became a thing of the past and the fear of the Lord and his finished work on Calvary became the focus.
Once the glasses come off, you can never put them back on. And thank God for His grace during the process! Thank you for sharing :)
“Calvary became the focus.”😭😭😭
Yes, once I started reading my Bible for myself I just couldn’t agree with the UPC’s doctrine anymore. It broke my heart as I was raised UPC, but the Bible brought me out as I searched for truth.
I’ve been going through this the last yr. We were both raised in it. My husband & kids still go. He gets really frustrated… this nailed it & I’m only 9 minutes in. Reading the Bible with the lens off was insane! Im more confident in salvation now 110%
Thank you for watching and sharing! Praying for you and your journey ❤️
You are making a mistake. The Oneness doctrine is the truth, and the doctrine of the Trinity is inherently contradictory, which renders it untrue by definition.
@@davidcoleman5860 please explain the difference between Oneness and Trinity.
Bro, you're correct that the oneness is biblical truth but it's not the only biblical truth.
@@davidcoleman5860ugh.
I'm proud of you guys!. I grow up in the UPCI since I was a baby and I left officially 5 years ago. and it's the best decision I've Made. I didn't leave church Nor God. I'm just not part of the UPCI anymore
So glad to hear that you found your way out as well! What a blessing. Thanks for watching and sharing ❤️
I took off the UPC lens for Bible reading and started praying for the Lord to open my eyes to understanding and wisdom before each reading. And my eyes were opened big and fast and I learned about God’s grace. The holiness standards will not help you get into heaven. They dont make you holier than thou. You can not earn heaven, nor do you deserve it. You are saved by grace through faith alone in Christ alone. Not by works.
I finished all the certificates for the local license, and the only thing I had left was to read the manual. I couldn’t get past the articles of faith.
Amen! Thanks for sharing.
I left the UPCI as well feeling great. I do love all of them but pray there eyes get open
You are correct, holiness standards from the church will not get you into heaven.
However, the more you seek God, you will being to receive convictions.
Jesus followers should look and behave differently from the world.
What the Bible says is truth.
God is a gracious God He does say if we love Him with all our hearts we will let go of the worldly things. We are called to be Holy because He is Holy.
I’m against prideful people from church who think they are better than everyone else because they live day by day with these standards, but they have wicked hearts and God will judge them.
We are called to love one another and encourage each other. It’s not easy.
God is so good!
I came to Christ at 23 years old , our church was small and they did not believe in receiving the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues. I had been involved in quite a few churches all my life .Sorry you felt pressured to speak in tongues, but an evangelistic came by and asked if I had the Holy Ghost. I was very offended, but I ask God if it was true and if it was I want it. A month later my husband recieved the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues and the next day I did . I didn't felt "threatened " to speak in tongues all I was doing is thanking God . Change my life! I was a completely different person. I do believe in order in church services and not pressure people in getting "hyped" in anyway thats how believers are pushed to put on an act at church and no change inside . Never been in the upc or other big organization can't relate on the pressure but I believe God guides us because He sees our hearts 😌🙏
Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to make this video. I’ve been out for 17 years, but my husband and children and now grandchildren are still there. It’s still really hard, but I'm continually trusting that the Lord will one day draw them out.
Oh Nadine, we will be praying with you! We understand the challenge of having family still in. Thank you for watching and God bless ❤️
@@justinandtiffany I so appreciate your prayers; truly.
why do you left is it because of holiness, most people leave because they don't live up to standard of holiness that God wants them to. i thought UPC is all about teaching the holiness of God and what they taught in the church is not the UPC doctoring but thee doctrine of our Lord Jesus Christ.
@@lawrenceora5905beware of any religious group that legislates how you should dress. And spare me the outrage that it’s an individual’s conviction.
@@tenaciousb1509 I would assume you would agree that according to the scriptures, we should teach modesty in our adornment and sexual distinction as something that especially in this culture, pleases the Lord? Now, legislating every detail I would agree with you on that. But we must be careful not to go overboard the opposite direction as if living for Christ is a free for all and nothing matters but our hearts....because that is a doctrine of the devil.
Well, I am at a Loving, Biblical UPC Church. Encouraging to read the word of God, to Pray etc. I am Bless to able to be surrounded by People who strongly believes in Prayer and to be Fill with the Holy Spirit. May the Lord JESUSCHRIST be in your life and Lets keep on 🙏 PRAYING. WE MUST BE READY HE IS COMING BACK SOON❤
Beautiful testimony!
You clearly don’t understand salvation. It’s all about Jesus not about you or being ready.
There is no such thing as a Biblical UPC church.
PTL that you guys have experienced deliverance! MAY you continue to grow in your spiritual walk.
❤
I ordered the book Pagan Christianity. I’ve been out of the UPCI 8 years and there’s so many layers to unlearning the doctrine.
What was the location of the Church?
So is pentecost a pagen Christianity ??
So heres a info dump...
Ex upc here👊😉
In Acts 11, believers were 1st identified "Christians"? All Christians in the Book of Acts were unarguably "baptized in the name of Yeshua"! [Equivalent of Yahweh-Saves, ]
Furthermore Christ praised believers in Rev 2 & 3 for keeping "His Name"!
(No other name given to be saved according to Paul PLUS Trinitarians ❌reject the book of Acts & Apostolic traditions of baptism in "Yeshua's name", trinitarians are 300 yrs to late for the Title "Christian".
😬"UN-Rational believer's", reframe the biblical narrative and reject that....
ALL 27NT Books AND
ALL "9NT Authors", taught "Jesus has God".
The "Unnamed Memoir", finally nicknamed "Gospel of John". Composed by an anonymous group of scribes, seechapterr 21)
John 20:17Jesus said "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to "
👨🦳My Father" and 👉"Your Father", and to
👨🦳My God AND 👉your God.
John 20:31
But these are written that ye may believe that
🤴🏼Jesus is the Christ, the 🔎Son of God👨🏼🦳, and that believing ye might have life in his name.
[John 20:31 "Solve" John 1:1]
"Same John" signed off in Revelation, that Jesus STILL "has a God in HEAVEN"....
Rev 1:1 the revelation 👨🏼🦳God gave
🤴🏼Jesus Christ, to show John and followers what must soon take place
👉👨🏼🦳Him who is, and who was, and who is to come,👈 and from the seven spirits before his throne,
and to
🤴🏼Jesus Christ the faithful witness and first born from the dead.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve 👨🏼🦳His God and Father, to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
7 “Look, he 🤴🏼{CHRIST}is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”;
and all people on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen.
8“👉👨🦳I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
YHWHGod is the Alpha/Omega is the giver of this "prophecy".
Jesus is the first witness, the first born from the dead, The Lamb. 🤴🏼
We we're grafted into rational Messianic AND Monotheistic, functioning hierarchy, not a "pre-flood Hindu Trinity".🤮
(Rev. 21,22 YHWHGod is referenced as “the beginning and the end.” (Rev. 21,22 & 60+times elsewhere)
Rev 3:2 Be constantly alert, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of 👉My God.
Revelation 3:12
The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of 👉👨🦳"My God". Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of 👉"My God", and the name of the city of👉 "My God", the new Jerusalem, which comes down from👉🤴 "My God" out of heaven, and "My New Name".
(2 separate individuals)
Rev 3:21 KJV
To him that overcomith , will I grant to sit with me on🔥"My Throne"🤴🏼; even as I also overcame,
and am set down with
👉"My Father" on his throne👨🏼🦳.
"2 Separate Thrones"!
🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘🆘
Matthew 19:28
Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the 👉"Son Of Man👈 will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
AGAIN:
Acts 7:55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the "Glory of God,
and 🔥"Jesus standing"
at the right hand of
👉God.
56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and
🤴"The Son of Man, "Standing"
at the right hand 👉of God.”👨🦳
Here's where we find Jesus in the O.T.
Daniel 7:9-14
“As I looked, “thrones were set in place,
and the👉 👨🏼🦳"Ancient of Days" took his seat.(YHWH)
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
10. A river of fire was flowing, coming
out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a 🤴🏼"Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven.
He approached the 👉"Ancient of Days"👨🏼🦳 and was led into his presence.
14 (Jesus)🤴🏼He was given Authority, glory and sovereign power; All Nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an Everlasting Dominion that will not pass away, and His Kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
👆Jesus left his disciples in Galilee & Rhode a cloud to heaven & was presented before YHWH God
So to recap
ALL of Johns Books 1,2,3, & Revelation, taught
Jesus/Yeshua "has a God'.
As well as
"ALL 9 Authors & 27NT Books", consistently taught: Jesus "has a God".
Clement, was Apostle Peters Secretary,
And mentioned in Philippians 4:3 RSV
Phlip.4:3 And I ask you also, true yokefellow, help these women, for they have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
Clement was trained by James, Paul, Zacchaeus, AND "Apostle Peters Scribe".
Clement of Rome
60-90AD 30+years till martyred.
1 Clement 59:4
"Let all the Gentiles know that Thou art the God alone, and Jesus Christ is Thy Son."
Clement "echos Jesus in:
John 17:3:
"Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."
Clement ran the first church however, Polycarp did have some interactions with the apostle John.
Martyrdom of Polycarp (120-140AD)
O Lord God Almighty, Father of your beloved and blessed Son Jesus Christ, through whom we have received knowledge of you, the God of angels and powers and of all creation, and of the whole race of the righteous who live in your presence, I bless you…I glorify you, through the eternal and heavenly high priest, Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with him and the Holy Spirit, both now and for the ages to come. Amen
Justin First Apology 61* (160AD)
There is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. For no one can utter the name of the ineffable God…And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed.
Martyrdom of Ignatius 2 (120 AD?)
Thou art in error when thou callest the daemons of the nations gods. For there is but one God, who made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that are in them; and one Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, whose kingdom may I enjoy.
Also if anyone is interested in
🫴🏼"Peters apologetics" , such as Peter and Simon Mangus discussing creation, Proving Jesus is the messiah, polytheism etc look up
🔍New Advent site OR Bible Hub, and look up
🔎Clement Homily.
Clement penned almost 20 Books of Apostle Peter's apologetics.
God bless.
Thru worship and song I have received several miraculous healings. I wasn’t worked up into a “frenzy”. With that being said, I have in the past seen “song leaders” try and work people up into a worship frenzy and always thought if that is what it takes to get people to worship then that is not true worship. We come together with worship in our hearts.
Thanks for this you two! This came up as a suggested video, and I greatly enjoyed hearing your testimony. My husband and I left the UPCI over a year ago after being raised in it for 30+ years. Our story is so similar to yours as far as what God revealed to us through His word. It’s amazing how God writes such unique stories for each of us, and yet they are also so similar.
So thankful for God’s grace, His patience in our sanctification, and the beauty of resting in the assurance of our salvation. God bless you both!
It's so encouraging to hear about others leaving, especially those that have been raised in it for so long. What a beautiful testimony to come to a full understanding of His grace and love. We pray the Lord blesses the continuation of your journey. Thank you so much for sharing!
justin and tiffany my wife and i have a similar story like yours we spent 28 yrs in the upci and did everything the pastor asks to do we taught classes we gave money did music when our son married a girl from another faith and we visited there church the pastor said we had to choose our church or our family we believed god first family second then your church in that order so we left the upc my ? to you were are you attending now and are you happy
This is a disheartening story. But choosing family over church must have been a beautiful display of love to/for your children. What a testimony!
We are in transition still, but no longer believe in the requirement of membership to a "church". We plan to talk about this more in a future video. Thank you for sharing! God bless...
@justinandtiffany hu Justin and Tiffany. So glad to watch you and your stories. I came out with so much that I went through. I don't even know what I believe anymore. I will always believe in one God, and I will always believe in baptism in Jesus name. However I do not believe in the way it's taught from the UPC. We can talk about it further if you'd like
Growing up in the UPCI, as a youth I was taught that you had to speak in tongues everyday to get that “renewing” as you say and I just couldn’t do that sometimes no matter how much I prayed. And so I always felt like a failure and that there was something wrong with me as an individual. I appreciate these videos and I’ve been watching Responsible Faith with Deanna Jo also. I’m just at that point where I’m searching out the scriptures for myself and asking the lord to help me see the truth. I believe there are a lot of people in the UPCi who are genuine and who really do love the lord. But I believe there has been a lot of damage done. There is some unlearning that I have to do. Especially in truly understanding God’s love and Grace.
We can relate to your tongues experience! And thank you for sharing.
The Lord will absolutely help you see truth in scripture, and to correctly exegete what God the Holy Spirit meant for us to glean/apply. His love and grace are beautiful gifts, and given to us for free! Praying for you and your journey.
ps...Deanna helped me (Tiff) a ton! Thankful you found her channel.
I wasn't raised in Pentecost. I spoke in tongues or glosselia for the first time in someone's living room during a Bible study before I had ever been in a pentecostal church. I was in the Apostolic church for 10 years and left 4 months ago over not seeing the fruit of the Spirit displayed. However, I know my experience was valid and also Paul said he doesn't understand what he's saying when speaking in tongues but the Spirit does. To not forbid speaking in tongues. Now, I also know I can somewhat stir up this "gift" especially in times of brokenness and a need for comfort. When it happens tho, it is supernatural and I usually pour tears and feel all the feelings. I don't depend on it for faith but certainly do appreciate the comfort I feel the release of negativity that comes with it. So if this is a "pagen" practice or of the Charasmatic Christian viewpoint, I don't know. Either way, I still practice and will continue practice this yet will not spew it as something God requires for salvation or even a gift everyone must have.
@@SonnyNyet2327 you do not realize that the last part that you quoted from Acts 2:38 is not actually in the Bible. Read it for yourself, you are quoting a doctrine. I was raised UPC and was shocked to find that it does NOT say “with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues.” Acts 2:38 also does not say “must” receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, it says “shall/will.” Which means if you do the first 2 that God WILL give you the Holy Ghost.
@@LifewithJennyintheUSA they also add " What must we do ....""TO BE SAVED"""" . This is not what it says . Also we REPENT " BECAUSE OF ( for ) the remission of sins . !!
@@LifewithJennyintheUSA aaamen to every word you just spoke ! I to was raised PENTECOST however after my own salvation I learnt the truth . I was saved upon repentance and was INSTANTLY changed . AFTER I OBEYED his word exactly 3'months later I received tongues of the holy ghost . After that I became bold in the Lord and started having prophetic VISIONS and dreams galore . Tongues are gave to those that OBEY just as the Bible states ... You get them because you are saved not to get saved !!!!
@@LifewithJennyintheUSA WONDERFUL!!! YES YOU ARE 10000 PERCENT CORRECT
They are cherry picking verses that supports what they want and ignoring other verses that does not fit within their preferences
Love your videos - I have watched all of them!! 😊. I was in the UPCI for 25 years. I graduated from JCM, was an AIM worker, and leadership. I left the UPCI for the same exact reason as you. I am now a minister in a different denomination and so much happier. GRACE!! Never even knew what that meant in the UPCI.
I really love all of your videos and hope to one day see “cinnamon roll Saturday” videos again soon!! Blessings to you both!! 😊
Hi Justin and Tiffany - I left the UPCI about 15 years ago and I am now an Orthodox Christian. Like you and others, I had a lot of theological and soteriologically unpacking to do. I am not bitter towards the organization… but there is life and salvation apart from the organization. Thank you for sharing your journey. Many of the things you have mentioned in this video are things I have discussed. Be encouraged. Lovingly - Lee.
Thank you Lee! What a blessing to hear that your faith continues. And as far as unpacking goes, seems like there are still boxes you find in the attic on the 2nd/3rd/4th time around, ha! But what a wonderful process to learn things that were never shared or taught in some of these systems. We really appreciate you watching and sharing! God bless.
The UPC still have racist churches nothing is ever done to tackle those things
My mom started going to the UPC church in 1974, when I was 4. She was widowed in 1994. She died in 2021, still so much a firm believer in the ways of the UPCI church and I left well over 20 years ago. I watched her struggle as an elderly, single woman of the church who'd been ever so faithful and they made sure that they beat the tithes out of her every chance they got. If she missed giving them her tithes just one time and she would come up short, she would be put into a place of guilt because she didn't pay her dues. God was punishing her, because she didn't give what he gave her. I HATED it so much!! I watched her struggle. But she never let us talk about it in a bad light.
Those people she served for 47 years. She served God with all of her heart, but she was really serving men in that organization. When she died, not one of them called, nobody came, nobody sent a card, a flower. It was pitiful. Her faith never waivered. I'll never forget.
Oh we are so very sorry to hear this! Stories such as these are among the saddest experiences in these high-control systems. What a disgrace. Thank you so much for sharing! These accounts are so important for those that are questioning, and for those that are leaving ❤️
Speaking about ‘speaking in tongues’ is wonderful. That is why so many Pentecostals stay in the church. They truly feel it is the evidence that the Pentecostal doctrine is ‘the truth’
That’s interesting as that was one of the top 3 reasons I left the UPCI. People clearly and flagrantly disrespecting the Holy Spirit by faking speaking in tongues and faking “slain in the spirit.”
@@haroldbeauchamp3770I told my ex pastor from UPCI that doing that was pretty much blasphemous. I was ex comunicado
Hey Tiffany and Justin, it's Tori. I am really thankful for you posting this. I saw your part 1 to this as well as your interview with Deanna. I just want to say I'm really happy that you found a more vibrant, authentic path and managed to break free from the oppression of the church we were in. I left shortly after I started college because when I started attending the Woodland church, it dawned on me how weird and not right it all was. However, much like Tiffany I had been questioning it prior to that. Moving is what officially gave me the fresh perspective and strength to actually leave. Tiffany, your experience deeply resonates with me. Hearing your story has been extremely encouraging and healing for me and I would love the chance to speak to you personally to tell you how much it has blessed me. Overall, very happy for you guys and thankful that you have provided this video as a resource for others who need it. My mom and I watched both of your videos as well as your interview with Deanna, and my mom said "Thank you for showing me that -- watching that made my night! It was like church -- like un-church!" I replied, "We got un-churched!" Lol. Not only have you escaped the bondage of the UPCI Doctrine and organization, but you talk about it with such peace and grace. Not very many people in this world understand how mind-boggling it is to go through something like this. It is very encouraging to see. Good stuff!
Thank you for your kind words, Tori. We appreciate you watching and sharing! We would love to connect with you when we’re in town next! I’ll message you on IG with our future dates. Love and miss you lots. Praying for you and your journey ❤️
I’m an ordained oneness Pentecostal minister. These are valid criticisms, we ought to do better. There are so many great people within the upci. When you mix dispensationalism with revival culture, you end up calling things “deep” that are shallow and sad. 😢 I do differ on your explanation of tongues, my personal experience is much different, I can absolutely hear what you are saying. I’m wishing you the best. I’m staying as long as I can as a reformer. 😊
Thank you for sharing and understanding. There are wonderful people, Christian people sitting on UPC pews. And it's ok to differ, that's the beauty of the whole. We want to challenge and be challenged for sure. It is wonderful to hear that you are a oneness pentecostal minister and can agree that there are some disappointing practices. We pray that you are able to bring awareness while still in. Thanks again for sharing. God bless.
I live on the other side of the world and I wanted to learn about UPCI and I ran into this video. Your experiences made me remember the early years of my walk with God as a trinitarian pentecostal. I had the a similar experience. I thought that my emotional experiences meant being filled with the Holy Spirit. But I noticed that such an emotional high did not last long, but only for about 30 minutes aftery worship. I realized that it was not the Holy Spirit but my emotions. The Holy Spirit would not fill me for 30 minutes and then leave me empty.
A Call for Endurance:
Revelation 14:12-13
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
I'm so happy for both of you! 🙌🏾 It's awesome to see couples that leave false doctrine and follow Christ. My husband and I are former Seventh-Day Adventists. There are many in these types of cults (yes, it's a cult) who don't always leave with their spouse and are even shunned by their spouse, family and friends who remain in the doctrine. I'm forever grateful God's grace allowed my husband and I to study the Bible, and see the error of SDA doctrine.
I completely understand what you mean by not knowing the Gospel. Adventism has a different gospel, different Christ, and numerous strange teachings that are not Scriptural. Though you came out of UPC, there are many things you've touched on that are similar...bondage is real, but what a blessing to know that whom the Son sets free, is free INDEED!!! 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
I continue to praise God for people who are leaving false teachings and place their faith and trust in Christ, our Redeemer, and Savior. 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾❤
New sub! 😁
Thank you so much for sharing! And for the subscription! You're right, it's not just one denomination out there leading people astray with their false doctrine. It's sad and unfortunate. Thank goodness for those standing up, and leaving unashamed.
Thanks for watching/listening! We really do appreciate it!
You all are so cute and precious. You have a sincere love in your heart for others. May God bless your journey!
Thank you ❤️
Bless You, Justin and Tiffiny! We should Not bs Ashamed to Tithe. Good Video!
Coming out of a very similar situation can I ask what type of church you go to now? thanks for your great content. It’s very helpful.
No one has ever ever has tried to doctrine me of my heart about my life thru my Jesus or the UPC ! This was an amazing answer from Our Lord when I was 19 praying asking for him to show me the truth and what he wanted for me to know ❣️Then I met my husband his Mother was an evangelist she showed me the light on Jesus name my heart was right my One on One with my Lord Jesus he heard me ! I'm 74 not always where I should have been but just One day while laying in my hospital bed it was my alter my Lord brought me back to his heart knowing that he had never left me I left him he's always has been with me he's omnipresent in all of us ❣️I don't know what has happen in your life and pray for both but my life in the UPC has never ever be indoctrinated by my church 🙏 I want to say the Lord Jesus is my religion my church is my word where it says in the Bible "study and show thyself worthy rightly dividing the word of God " not Man so you stand where you want I stand on the Word the true message from My Lord Jesus 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙏❣️
Yes they will! It's unfortunate...
I’ve had the Holy Ghost for 70 years, and I can truly say, “living for God is the work is of a life time!” I love living for Him! I can readily understand the serpent when he deceived
Eve. “Thou shall not surely die.” I’m not saying that the UPCI is the only way to live to make it t heaven. But if one prays and want God to lead them, its
a good group to be in.
Group
True
My husband and I have just come to these exact same conclusions after actually reading and studying the Bible. We left a month ago after 25+ years. Haven’t felt this amount of peace and joy and FREEDOM in my life until having the relationship I have with Jesus now.
We’re so glad to hear that you have been able to leave! We will be praying for you and your husband’s journey! Thanks for watching!
Don’t take this wrong, but it took you 25 years to figure out the church you’re attending doesn’t quite follow the Christian Bible
Try reading just the Hebrew Bible you call it the Old Testament. Get to know the Old Testament as thoroughly as you probably know the New Testament and then make sure they complement each other. There’s literal Christian Bible verses that go against Old Testament teachings. If you dig, you’ll find them you’re on the right track.
THE LAW
“Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long.”
Psalms 119:97 NIV
Vs.
“For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.””
Galatians 3:10 NIV
“I hate double-minded people, but I love your law.”
Psalms 119:113 NIV
Vs.
“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
Romans 10:4 NKJV
“Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek out your decrees.”
Psalms 119:155 NIV
question? did Jesus contradict Malachi 5:5-6 because he clearly stated who that scripture was talking about and it was not literally Elijah. So there is no contradiction it’s just that people are not seeing it in the spiritual sense because it takes the spirit
I was raised in UPCI. The speaking in tongues is a beautiful, Biblical experience that I quite cannot get away from. I was a theistic satanist for over 8 years before I came to Jesus Christ and one day while I was praying and repenting to Jesus Christ, I began to speak in a language I never learned before. It was a beautiful, powerful experience that is rooted in the Book Of Acts. A careful study will render that the miracle was not just Jews that heard them speak in their own language but rather it was also the Apostles and others that “began to speak with other tongues.” Tongues is not evil. Can some tongues be of the devil? Yes. Some tongues can be. But realize that Satan always has a counterfeit to something as beautiful as the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Amen! The baptism of the H.G. is a divine experience for all to receive and experience but it was His shed blood (not speaking in tongues) that washed away my sins making my salvation possible. Rom 6-8.
@@trevino965 Jesus’ last words at the Last Supper can help put the pieces together. In John 7:38-39 Jesus said he that believeth on me as the Scriptures hath said out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit which they which believe on Him should receive. For the Holy Ghost was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified.” Yes, I believe whole heartedly that His death, burial and resurrection secured my salvation but also that Jesus died for the joy that was set before him. What was that joy? Well, I believe it was the joy of being able to impart His Spirit. Jesus is unique in that He had a second set last words before He ascended to heaven. He said for us to wait for a promise until we are endured with power from on high. Pentecostals simply believe that we must believe wholeheartedly in Jesus, confess with our mouth that He is Lord, ask Him to reign over lives and then carefully follow the pattern of His death, burial and resurrection in Scripture. Peter told us to Repent, be baptized every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ (for the remission of sins) (emphasis mine) & ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. This promise of tongues gives us power to become witnesses, it is the reason the veil was split into two and we could enter into the Holiest of Holies. The gift of the Holy Ghost is not for a select few but rather it is for all of us who believe in Jesus. John 7:38-39, Acts 2:38-39
You both seem very nice and not psychos like i'm used to. I studied tongues independently (am upc 28 years) and concluded there may be two types of tongues, based on looking at the Greek and the context. The gift as at Pentecost and the prayer language that i have experienced without forcing it. I am open to learning what i might have not understood but yeah that's where i landed on that.
@@Robert-55not true, the Bible talks about a form of tongues that is a heavenly language only god can understand, who are you to tell what is that heavenly language and which is not?
@@Robert-55Speaking in " tongues" sounds like " gibberish" to those who don't realize what it is and haven't spoke in "tongues" themselves.
Speaking in " tongues" is actually one spiritual language whose source is our spirit.
Paul refered to it as praying in the spirit( 1Cor.14:2,14) in a language," no man knows". If no man knows this language then it is not one native to this world. Paul said that when he spoke in this language," ..my spirit prays but my understanding is unfruitful.." ( 1Cor.14:14). In other words he didn't understand what he was saying.
No one is born physically speaking in this language but, in time, their native language thats' source is their mind.
What causes a believer to first speak in this spiritual language is as a result of recieving the Holy Spirit.
To recieve the Holy Spirit is to have the Spirit join with your spirit as the result of the Holy Spirit baptism.
This is a scripturally backed system of interpreting scripture called The Law Of Repetition.
According to this law the Word will repeat something said,and/ or an event three times to:
1) Direct our attention to an important spiritual truth.
2) To set a precident so that when this situation occurs elsewhere in scripture that it need not be explained in this much detail.
There are only three instances,in scripture, of believers recieving the Holy Spirit and what happened the moment that they recieved, Acts ch.2,10,and ch.19.
In each instance the first thing that happened was that they spoke in " tongues".
@@Robert-55 here’s the thing, speaking in tongues is a lot of time faked, but mine was not fake, and your blowing off the direct Bible quote I gave of it being a heavenly language, it is not real tongues if you are doing it on command
@@Robert-55 oh so your not a believer? Just be quiet.
@@Robert-55 What does the Bible say? Well the Bible mentions that form of tongues so… if you don’t believe the Bible there is no reason to be here arguing, there is literally no value in your word to this conversation if you don’t believe in Jesus and the Bible.
All I heard was talk about “revival” before I left Apostolic Pentecostalism. But they were so judgmental that they killed any chance of “revival”.
If one studied Parham and read the facts about him, you’d see he is not one that anyone should be affiliated with. You can request records from the San Antonio, Texas police department and read his statement on the despicable crime he committed while there. Seymour was his prized student. There are countless statements from well respected figures that Azusa street was a perverse environment at times. Considering how Parham acted, it is paramount to note that Parham stated he was disgusted with Azusa street and he denounced Seymour as a fraud and perverse individual. Let that sink in. Parham was a sick, disgusting man, and *he* said Seymour was perverse!
I’m interested in this, you have any links? Thanks
@@kchilz32I can’t post links on here or my comment will automatically get deleted. You have to type in Charles Fox Parham sodomy. A lot of the articles are written by Pentecostals in an effort to debunk or downplay it. Once you find the originals that are backed up with actual evidence from the police department (his confession, newspaper reports,etc) you begin to see exactly what these UPCI maniacs are founded upon. Parham was a child rapist and Seymour was a social outcast and sexual deviant that used perverted tactics to manipulate the public into believing their methods were legitimate. One of the most respected examples came from a Pastor who heard about Azusa st and traveled to see it in person. What he discovered was filth. Seymour would preach and then retire to his room and have relations with the countless women who were entranced by his message and fallen under the influence of the theatrics and atmosphere. The Pastor goes on to explain that he was disgusted by the Azusa st guise as it was nothing more than a fantasy world for a sick man (Seymour).
Other sources go on and on in regards to what really happened there. Do some digging. It was a interesting read to learn the truth.
💯💯💯
Is it true Seymour was into voodoo I have heard that
Thank you for sharing!!! I went to a funeral yesterday and was talking with a relative of my husband. She left the UPC and we left Jehovah's Witnesses. So many similarities. We officially left January 1, 2022. Jehovah's Witnesses view us as apostate because we are no longer one of them, and do not believe in their doctrines. We are more convinced of our salvation now, dig deeper into scripture (not JW literature), and follow Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life rather than a group of men who believe they are substitutes for Christ. The freedom, peace, and joy are a precious blessing 🙏
Amen!! Thank you for watching and for sharing. There are so many similarities with these man-made organizations. We are praying for freedom for all those involved. May God bless your journey ❤️
I actually have neighbors that are JW. I witness to them. The biggest question I ask is why should anyone be a JW?
I'm feeling every single thing you're saying. We have just recently left our church operating much the same way. oh my goodness! and the shunning began the moment they even sensed us pulling away.
it was said that we are "operating in a spirit of Jezebel" and that because we have "separated ourselves from the fellowship, we are knowingly walking in sin for which there is no forgiveness." We did not separate from THE church. We immediately sought out a Bible preaching / teaching church who welcomed us with open arms. How refreshing!
Thank you for sharing and bringing clarity to so many things. God bless you and yours!
Thank you for sharing! And we are so sorry about the shunning. Unfortunately, it is a very real thing that happens. Thank God we aren't disfellowshipped from HIS church. We pray your journey and faith continue on. God bless!
I have several friends in the UPCI. I am Reformed Baptist. I used to be General Baptist until I started listening to men of other denominations like J.I. Packer, he was Anglican but his book Knowing God is one of the best I have ever read. John MacArthur is non denominational and he has a book to pentecostals called Strange Fire which is excellent as is every other book he has written! And R.C. Sproul was Presbyterian and he has some excellent stuff as well. Erwin Lutzer has a book called Rescuing the Gospel and that has some good church history in it. All of these guys have disagreements on some theological matters but nothing that would make them a heretic. I am no longer dispensational because that was invented in the 1800s. I read a book by Duncan Shennea called Prophecy without panic: a brief introduction to partial preterism and Gary DeMar has a book Last days madness: obsession of the modern church which is really good. Are you familiar with Charles Spurgeon or J.C. Ryle? The Puritans? Reformers? They all have excellent material that is a theological goldmine! I was challenged about my faith by a upci person telling me I was not saved and I am grateful because it really led to me discovering all that I have said in my comment and really helped me grow in Christ and find out about true Christianity and what I believe. John MacArthur also has a sermon on oneness pentecostals you may be interested in. Paul Washer and Tim Conway are 2 other good pastors on youtube. Sorry for the long comment, God bless you both!!!
wow youre in a cult yourself brother, so youre not qualified to be giving advice. Reformed Calvinism teaches God hates 99% of the human race, and that Christ died only for the ones he chose. Thats NOT what the bible teaches. They also teach we are BORN GUILTY of adams sin, and if a baby dies and its not "elect" if goes to hell. (read ezek 18;19-23) as far as dispensationalism. it is a framework for understand how God work in different parts of history. using that framework or not using it isnt a big deal. Also, "Reformed Baptist" is an oxymoron. You cant be both Reformed and Baptist at the same time. To base your beliefs on John Calvin, who killed, jailed or banished anyone who didnt attend HIS church is just as bad if not worse than any cult being discussed here. Go back to your general Baptist church where they teach God's love for ALL, and that ANYONE can be saved
As a Christian I visited a Apostolic Church in Las Vegas, all was good for a couple months, nice friendly people. One day the pastor mentioned knowoneone really knows the 7 seals in Revelations. I saw him in the parking lot, mention that Willaim Branham had the best explanation of the 7 seals I ever heard. I also told him about William Branhams sermon called serpent seed. 2 weeks later the pastor got on stage yelling that he did not believe in these teachings, He then came to me and said I heard those sermons and told me not to come back to church...real brotherly love I tell ya. I had simply gone to fellowship with other like minded folks and never try to change their beliefs, this is what religion does. I witnessed all you describe in your videos, thankfully I had the God given knowledge to see past it. William Branham used to say go to a church if you don't agree take what you can and have love for each other. He always loved people but spoke against organized religion. He had a gift of healing, prayed for my dying grandmother, she was healed that day and lived 60 more years to testify Hebrews 13:8 is true. God Bless you two.
I'm not a pentecostal and that pastor handled your situation bad but the serpent seed doctrine is very dangerous
@@endtimesnowwithjohnnybargo3028 He told me their version on the serpent seed, he said there are two seeds, God and Adam. I asked were evil came from then, he said Adam. If that were the case then all of us including all the Prophets through the only testament would have been evil and that Jesus was the only true seed. The Bible shows plainly it came from their sons Cain and Abel. All the lineage from Cains side was evil he is the one that went out from the presents of the Lord. Since he killed his brother Abel watch Seth's side how, all those good people up to Christ started with Seth, you have to follow the bible lineage of both seeds, it makes perfect sense.
@@BLCustoms evil exists because of the fall not because of a certain lineage..
@@endtimesnowwithjohnnybargo3028 You are correct but one needs to look into the lineage to make sense out of it. There are many religious organizations that believe Eve ate a apple but there is no scripture to support that idea. I'm glad at least you guys left that religion and serving God instead of the world. I feel for may good people in many different religions that may not know any better, God Bless You.
THE LAW
“Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long.”
Psalms 119:97 NIV
Vs.
“For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.””
Galatians 3:10 NIV
“I hate double-minded people, but I love your law.”
Psalms 119:113 NIV
Vs.
“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
Romans 10:4 NKJV
“Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek out your decrees.”
Psalms 119:155 NIV
Thank you for sharing your story and your on journey coming out of the UPC organization! So proud of you two!
Thank you for watching!
So thankful to see people coming into living faith!! 🥰
@31:30 people from all denominations believe that you can be sinless...which is, as you say, not possible.
This video is not about a group of people that offended them or hurt them but about a couple that never learned to forgive their once close friends.
God bless from UPCI all the way from India 🇮🇳❤️
One truth that I found after leaving my UPC , is that Salvation is a work of God the Father , Jesus Christ , an d the Holy Spirit . In order to experience that work ,someone must simply come to a place of complete repentance .
Amen!
You are describing many church culture organizations.
There is a great divide within the UPCI church.
Those that are sincerely seeking and those that are determined to keep their religion.
Don’t let others bad actions make you walk away from the mighty God in Christ.
Did you even watch the video😩 they are still Christian just not in the UPC which btw I’m it sure if you know this being part of the UPC is not a requirement to get into heaven
I didn't struggle leaving. I just walked out and never went back. I have been treated so bad by those people. I was treated as an outcast because I grew facial hair. I was no longer considered a brother. I was set down one night because I sang in the choir, and I didn't have a coat on. That hurt me so bad. One night I was at the alter, And because some didn't think I was right, a woman walked by me and actually hit me in the head with her Bible. I walked out of that church and never went back. I have problems with their teaching that everyone else is going to hell if they aren't baptized in Jesus name or if you don't speak in tongues. You're controlled and you can't go visit another church without being called into the office. Me and a couple friends went to McDonald's one night after church. The pastor found out about it and we were called into the office and the pastor said we can't do that. He said they went out to a certain restaurant every Sunday night and we had to go with them. I definitely see why it's considered a cult. Thanks for y'all sharing and listening to me
You can eat wherever you want. They believe some crazy stuff the upc leadership. I can't believe some of it and didn't know about it until after a long time in it, things started revealing themselves.
These stories are mind-blowing! I know this stuff happens, some crazy stuff happened to me personally as well, but it's still always a shock to me when I hear/read others' tales. Controlling your restaurant choice, seriously. How in the world is it okay to treat people like this?!? Good for you for walking out! We wish we would have done the same a long time ago.
It means a lot when people share, so thank you so much! And thank you for listening/watching! God bless...
AMEN!
I haven't attended upc for a few years now due to seeing things myself, but cannot getmy head around tithing. I know in scripture it does not exist, but i feel horrible if i don't send at least a tenth by internet banking. Call it psychological, i don't know. Been struggling with it for years.
I guess I feel at least i'm serving God in some way by doing it. If i don't send money, i'm really doing nothing for God.
And that's just the way they want you to feel. We had a pastor that if you didn't pay your tithes, he would have you come into a meeting so he could go over your checkbook! I kid you not! Salvation is through faith and the grace of God. It has NOTHING to do about any money you give or don't give.
UPC here, the apostles doctrine was their lifestyle. If u keep reading acts read how they have to the widows, orphans and poor aka homeless. This isn’t preached but I have hope they will start. Young ppl are starting to speak out
I think a connection can be made going back to the post reformation period that gave us the pietist movement that gave us the holiness movement which morphed into Pentecostalism. I can appreciate what the original pietists were trying to do. They were coming against a dead confessionalism that had no heart and had become cold and lifeless. It’s always about balance in my opinion.
I do have a question regarding the Holy Ghost. Do you believe in it or not? Just wondered what your thoughts were on John 3:5? Jesus' own words are spoken here that a person won't enter the kingdom of God except he is born of water and of the spirit. Just curious as to your belief on the Holy Ghost.
John 3:5 has been the source of confusion and even the borderland of controversy...that being said I tend to believe that if you interpret this passage through the lens of the entire Bible, it tends to make better sense. (I'm no Bible scholar and even commentaries differ in their interpretations.) Some believe Jesus is speaking of two different things when he mentions water and spirit. Some even believe he's referring to the difference between your first birth, water, or natural (not baptism) and your second birth, of spirit, or spiritual. I tend to believe Jesus is talking about the same thing when referring to water and spirit in the passage. Jesus does rebuke Nicodemus in v. 10 for not understanding what he's talking about, being that he was a teacher of the Old Testament. Also we know from other NT passages (John 3:16; John 3:36; Eph 2:8-9; Titus 3:5) that salvation is by faith and not water baptism. I've heard one pastor say, ...saved people get baptized. I think gotquestions.org does a good job laying all this out. (bit.ly/John3_5) And, I also encourage you to read some of the respected commentaries on this passage as well. I believe you are filled with the Holy Spirit when you are saved...repentance and belief in Christ as Lord and Savior. -JB
@@justinandtiffany "I believe you are filled with the Holy Spirit when you are saved..." Could you tell me how to be saved? What is a biblical explanation of salvation?
@@timothyacademy1372 its been 7 days now and no response to you yet or anyone that, respectfully, is asking for an explanation. Their years of bad experiences along with finding that many of the Standards are unbiblical and hyper-spiritualized has made them turn against sound doctrinal Truths.
@@mikeeagan1307 I would have a tendency to concur...We were in it for 34 years plus. Many get so jaded and go their path, but nonetheless, God and his true church will endure to the end. They don't understand that you can come out and forgive what happened and move forward with very sound doctrine and a love and forgiveness to those who trespassed against them. We are to hold tight to what is true and let God take up our battles. Our family can tell "horror" stories, but we recognize that God himself brought us out of it and we forgive and move on. I honestly hurt for these people, but they have to decide what is motivating them to expose others. Is it for reconciliation, revenge, etc.? Only they and God know.
First of all, I doubt Jesus actually said anything in the gospels, especially John, as it was written about 70 years after Jesus died. Definitely not verbatim. No one was taking notes at the time.
Second, while Paul and the author of John don't necessarily follow the same theology, John 3:5 needn't be any more than an affirmation of 1 Corinthians 15:42-46, where we die in a physical body, but are resurrected in a spiritual body. That plus baptism, which Paul was also all about.
What abouT 1 Corinthians 14:2 can’t get around that it’s a prayer language to God
Its gibberish to God. Nothing in it but crap.
@@jeffengstrom8657 can you please give scripture to support, "Its gibberish to God. Nothing in it but crap."
@@liftthelid4270 Philipeans 3:8
I left because every time I tried to find scripture to show other Christians Apostolic teachings, I would keep seeing discrepancies.
I had spent several years attending other Pentecostal churches and those teachings seemed more to line up with scripture.
Scripture doesn’t say the gift of tongues it says the gift of the Holy Spirit. If the indwelling of the Holy Spirit happens at conversion ask why did they ask in scripture HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT WHEN YOU FIRST BELIEVED?
Speaking in tongues is a spiritual gift according to 1 Cor. 12. Does every believer get this gift? The implied admonition from Paul clearly states that not all receive this gift.
Also, the scripture you reference about asking the disciples that Paul found in Ephesus in Acts 19 if they had received the Holy Spirit yet? These were disciples of John the Baptist, not Christ. V4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.
@@justinandtiffany who did John preach ? Jesus ? What’s the difference between John preaching Jesus & anyone preaching Jesus before or after John ?
@@justinandtiffany verse 10, verse 28 & verse 30 of 1st Corinthians 12 are a correspondence of each other asking do all speak with DIVERSITY of tongues not merely speaking in tongues this is what it means when it finally ask do all speak with tongues it was a correspondence just as all the other questions were a correspondence. Many get this twisted & usually it’s people who themselves do not speak in tongues. Jesus said himself YE SHALL SPEAK IN TONGUES. This is for all saints ! Seek the Lord on this. Isaiah even prophesied about it. And I say this as one who isn’t UPI or Apostolic just another disciple of Jesus that’s all.
I have a question, if someone can help. I too attended a world outreach Pentecostal church for several decades, the "presence" of entering this church was very strong. People actually did get healed at Friday night miracle services, i know i was one of them, yet they did emphasize speaking in tongues and getting slain in the spirit, paying tithes, it was a very blessed experience yet much of what is taught is in error.... eventually the pastor was caught in a scandal, so can someone explain to me what is going on, it's either from God or its not from God and i can't tell you it is or its not, totally confused, thank you.
I was 4th generation in the upci. I would encourage you to research Martin Luther a little more and the reformation. Find out who the church was for the first 1000 years of Christianity. I found it!
I don’t know the people in this video or the people that offended them, what I do see from listening to them is that they were offended and worse they never learned to forgive. And now they are lashing out at former church friends former close church members, and so offended they want to come back and hurt these UPC folk at any expense.
Okay. You disagree with the UPC, for whatever and various reasons.
Move on and be happy.
Why do you feel the need to bring disunity to the body of Christ by condemning what many have experienced as Biblically true? There seems to be an internal struggle with your own conscience.
Instead of being negative toward the UPC, why not spend your time being positive about your new belief?
I received the Holy Ghost when I was 22 years old in a UPC church. That was 35 years ago. I'm still in the same UPC church. And I'm fully and 100% convinced that the UPC teaches the truth. And I am happy and full of the joy of the Lord.
I used to be Baptist. But I don't spend my time condemning the Baptist church on why they are in error. I share the truth without condemnation of others, due to a clear conscience.
By the way, Oneness Pentecostalism is one of the fastest growing Christian movements in the world today. Of course, in my opinion, it's a God thing.
P.S. Spirit-filled Paul and Barnabas departed asunder. So you can be a 'Pentecostal' and still have human emotions.
By lashing out at former church friends and trying to lure others away from this group now you have to stand before God, leave your gift at the alter go forgive these UPC people and stop attacking them and live for God.
Amen. I stopped agreeing with them when the book of acts in regards to speaking In tongues was not being accurately used and taught. Jesus came in flesh of God o teach relationship, not religion. My father is a minister and I’ve grown up in non-denominational church. There was a time when I started going to full gospel tabernacle and I felt the Holy Spirit but the judgment I felt from the people there was unlike any I’ve ever felt in any church anywhere else. Justin , your parents, the Bowser‘s, always always showed love to me. And your parents to Tiffany. However, many rules were double standards. I’m grateful for the two of you teaching truth. There are many different gifts of the Holy Spirit. Just like there are many different parts to the family in Christ. Love you both!!!
Amen Jessie! Thank you for sharing and good to hear from you ❤️
Love you brother and sister. I also came from oneness pentecostal church . I was raised there my siblings were born and raised in a oneness pentecostal church. I feel bad for those who are imprisoned of the lies of oneness pentecostals.
Thank you for watching! Once you are out, it is hard to watch those still in the bondage of a works-based organization!
yes it pains me everytime i watch them insist on their man made doctrines, works based salvation. It's really bondage@@justinandtiffany
What lies were they teaching? Can you state out some lies they preached in church??
I have mixed emotions as I listen to this. Grew up an Assemblies of God preacher's kid. Felt a crazy amount of pressure to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit at camp as a kid. I totally agree with you regarding the way worship has been hijacked by a desire to fit in with pop culture, etc. However...I don't agree with you regarding tongues. It does not have to be a literal foreign language. The Scriptures also speak of tongues as a prayer language, we're instructed to sing in the Spirit, etc. My own Holy Spirit baptism happened in a miraculous way IN MY FIFTIES at home worshiping at the piano in my bedroom. When I was totally not even expecting it. Anyway...agree with a lot of what you're saying and questioning (including tithing and the manipulation that has taken place around that). But I just can't throw away the spiritual gifts and the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit.
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
So you can say those in the upper room were also waiting for something “extra”. What say you about that, then? You made it up. That’s on you. There’s MANY folks that have gotten the Holy Ghost with the EVIDENCE of speaking in tongues.
The difference that I can see is that Jesus tell to his disciples to wait there because He'll going to send the Holy Spirit. So that day on Pentecost the fulfilment of Joel's profecy take place. After that just happened 3 mor times and it was not necessary any more as a sign for the unbelievers to knows that the Holy Spirit was spread over judios y gentiles, but that's it. At the point that Paul say that every person that born again is baptized (sumergido) un the Holy Spirit but He give the different Gives to whoever He wants, not every one most to speak in tongues and Paul even say that is not so important as prophecy😅
The Bible says he inhabits the praise of his people. So this is what worship service is for. To push into his presence.
Thank you for the video. Trying to leave UPCI but been very difficult for me. I just have to leave because this church is trying to destroy my marriage.. never known a church to do this. I need help!
Oh, we are so very sorry to hear this. The UPC can be very destructive to marriages, spouses, and homes. We have experienced this first-hand! Please know that we will be praying for you and your situation.
Well I have been studying, but my understanding is that speaking in tongues was the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit and spiritual gifts were separate is this not correct? I’m confused could u guys please speak on this..your bro in Christ
So there is no confusion, I'll start with Paul's words in 1 Cor 1 14:39, "Forbid not to speak in tongues...". I do believe there was a true gift of tongues and its 's purpose was to build the early church and spread the Gospel. I also believe there is a counterfeit gift of tongues. Even Paul, early on, had to address the issue as some were using the gift wrongly, or out order. If it can be faked, then how do we know or determine what is biblical tongues or fake tongues? I think we can use the Bible to determine the how and why. That being said, I agree that in Acts, the gift of tongues (a sign gift) did accompany many (not all) accounts of the spreading of the Gospel to both Jew and Gentile. Other sign gifts, like miraculous healing, also accompanied the Apostles during their early missionary journeys. Later on, rather than "heal" Timothy of his ailments, Paul told Timothy to drink some wine instead. Acts 2 clearly describes the supernatural gift of tongues that was poured out on pentecost as being languages; men understood, marveled and were amazed that the Galileans spoke their native languages. Later in Acts, certain men wanted to purchase this gift; this being able to speak a foreign language. This is even roots of the "modern charismatic movement" that started in Topeka, Kansas, with Charles Parham at Bethel Bible school and also Azusa Street. They were seeking this same gift and originally claimed that they could not only speak other languages, but also write them.
But looking back to 1 Cor, Paul writes...Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? (1 Cor 12:29-30) In the Greek, these questions are answered with an implied and emphatic NO. Also, Tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, (1 Cor 14:22). All gifts were used for the building up of the body of Christ. How are you built up if don't understand what someone else is saying? Paul says... 1 Cor 14:3 Therefore, he who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit, how can any one in the position of an outsider say the “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may give thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all; 19 nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind, in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
I think some of the confusion lies with the false understanding that there are two types of tongues or that the gift of tongues(known languages) is the not same as speaking in tongues personally(unknown). There is no biblical ground for this and in my study, only scripture, taken out of context, can be used to support this. There is no indication from the Scripture that it is ever privately exercised, only publicly. Paul also states that in church you are to “be quiet” if there is no one to interpret. It requires an invariable translation to be of help to the church. That is the true gift of tongues.
@@justinandtiffany
In John 3: 8, Jesus makes a statement that ends with "So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." Which means the statement applies to EVERYONE who is born of the Spirit. You hear it's sound. He also said a person MUST be born of the Spirit if they are going to enter the Kingdom of God. Peter said what the people saw and heard (the thing that made some of the onlookers think they were all drunk, so not just "authoritative speaking") on the day of the Feast of Pentecost in Acts 2 was the fulfillment of the promise prophesied in Joel 2. That promise, that was seen and heard, God's Spirit being poured out, people being born of the Spirit, is unto "you and your children and to those far off" ect.
Philip and the apostles knew those in Samaria (Acts 8) hadn't received the Holy Spirit yet, even though they all believed and had been baptized (literally immersed, specifically not sprinkled or poured) in the name of the Lord Jesus. How did Philip and them know that? That it hadn't happened yet? Because "So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
Interesting thing about the Gifts of the Spirit that you rightly point out is that they are specifically for the edification of the body. Yet there are instances where Paul mentions speaking in an unknown tongue as edifying only to the one who speaks it. Which is important, because what he is NOT saying is that it is pointless to do so. He also references speaking with the tongues of men or angles, so not limited to speaking "human languages" known or unknown to the speaker. Seems confusing until you realize that there IS a difference between the gift of tongues (meant for the body/church) and praying in the Spirit (meant for the individual). We should also note that Tongues meant for interpretation and an interpretation following so that everyone can understand what is being communicated isn't the only way the Gift of Tongues are used. There are diverse ways it can manifest. Like you point out - when God poured out His Spirit in Acts 2 there were a number of people who recognized the languages that were being spoken, no one had to pray for the interpretation. This shows there are different ways that this specific gift can manifest.
Imagine a tree. When the wind blows and moves on the tree, it makes a sound, and you hear it. The tree is making the sound, but the wind is giving the utterance. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. If you can see a person as a tree, you are just one more touch from Jesus away from seeing the Kingdom.
@justinandtiffany So, I'm coming out of the UPC (raised in it from childhood, but in and out for many years since my teens, recently made the full choice to leave)
I have also been studying etc, but but my understanding of tongues on a personal level, is the Holy Spirit praying through you, (there are various kinds of tongues also mentioned in Corinthians.)
which I believe is still prevalent today.
I've not spoken in tongues many times, but anytime I have, has not been 'faked'. However, I will say it happened at times that actually helped me in my walk with Christ and not all in a church setting.
I believe this is where Romans 8:26-28 comes into play.
I do not think it's right in the ways it's pushed within the UPC, because of how Paul addresses it in 1 Corinthians, but there's really no evidence that I've seen to support that the Holy Spirits gifts are not still at work, we can't put limits on God.
However like I said, tongues has been widely pushed to the point of selfishness and self edification, producing no real fruit or growth within themselves or the church as a whole, because love is not there. (Love and selfishness cannot coexist)
Unless I misunderstood what you were saying.. but other than that, I agree with everything else yall have said!
I actually enjoyed my time at a UPC church and I miss the passionate preachings but so many questionable doctrines and legalistic rules left me no choice but to leave. It’s false doctrine
I’m so glad I left the UPC church. It was so abusive that I almost ended my life. It was horrible and caused so much damage to my family.
We are so sorry to hear this, but so thankful you were able to get out. Praying for your journey! Thank you for sharing.
Abusive you said, can you explain what really happened?
I've been exploring my faith more than ever and I know someone that is a Oneness Pentecostal. She invited me to her church and I've been to some services and events. Very kind people and they do love Jesus, but it's not for me and I can't get behind it. I actually feel uncomfortable sometimes. The problem I have is that this doctrine didn't start until the 20th century specifically in the United States. It doesn't have the history and the direct line to the Apostles and the Church Fathers following them of the early centuries. It makes me ask the question, should I believe a doctrine that was started so late and started in the United States? Or should I follow more along the lines of people like Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch (literally came to the faith through John and was ordained by Peter and Paul as the Bishop of Antioch), or even Polycarp (literal disciple of John)? Doesn't add up to me
The apostles' doctrine which as written in the scriptures, is Repentance, Baptism in Jesus Name and receiving the Holy Ghost actually started in the book of Acts and is the only doctrine you find in the scriptures when one comes to Jesus. So, not sure what you're referring to when you say "it doesn't have the history and the direct line to the Apostles and the church fathers....when it absolutely does.... at least according to the what is written in the scriptures.
Okay, I am not the sharpest knife in the shed by no means:) HA! Also, I am currently seeking God and have been attending a Lutheran church for the past month and for some reason thus far, it is appealed to me. Of course, before a month or so ago I had not been to any kind of church faithfully/regularly in 12 or 15 years or so. Not because I stopped believing or anything, just backslide I guess one would say.
Anyway, I grew-up like you all, oneness Pentecostalism and my understanding of the “speaking in tongues” part, has always been there are “tongues of men” as well as, “tongues of angels.” Which explains, supposedly; why individuals can speak in tongues, and it have nothing to do with prophecy and does not require interpretation. Unlike, another type of speaking in tongues which would indeed require interpretation. I have witnessed both these types in one service.
Also, I hate to author a book, but I have so many questions😊 While I cannot remember scripture and verse, I can give you the gist of the best argument I have ever heard of speaking in tongues. Summed up, it is pretty much when an individual submits allowing God i.e., the “Holy Ghost” to take the most “unruly member of the body” and put it under subjection, the tongue.
Now, I’m not trying to impart the Holy Spirit or anything here on RUclips, it’s just when folks mentioned the book of Acts and chapter two in the upper room where the Holy Spirit fell, I’ve heard you all and the sheer majority of people make the statement “speaking in tongues in the book of Acts was for them who were in the upper room at that time.” The words “at that time” has always bothered me. For example, I believe, it was for those people at that time, but does that mean it is not for anyone else? Ever? At any time?
I don’t know man, I just don’t know, why can’t it be for anyone at any time if they can do it, but not everyone can do it I don’t think. It’s all so confusing sometimes for me. I have heard many people claim throughout my life, “oh, there just picking and choosing Bible verses they want to believe” I’m sure you all have heard that as well. I’m to the point where I think all denominations and the believers in them pick & choose.
Totally agree! I came out of UPC and now I don't know what to believe. There's a church on every street just about, and they all take the same bible and every denomination teaches they are the way! I don't think so!
In the book of Acts there were people that believed and had been water baptized, yet had not received the holy spirit. So the apostle laid hands on them and they received it. Does this not tell us that we don't have the Holy Spirit just because we believe? It does not say they spoke in tongues as an initial sign etc., but how did they receive it? How DO we know when someone receives it?
Matthew 7
[20] Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Jesus said these signs will fallow them that believe in my NAME they shall speak with new tongues Mark 16:17--18
The Apostolic movement was not started from seeking extra but seeking that which they read about in Acts. There was a more vivid worship, there were tongues that the holy spirit gave. There was singing and dancing. Yall are sharing your unbelief not legitiment arguments that oppose. There is more in the scripture than the understandable tongues. There are examples of both
I grew up in a different oneness denomination (Pentecostal Assembly of Jesus Christ) which is much smaller, mostlyocated in Arkansas and Oklahoma. But ...same thing. I left a few years ago because of questioning the same things. I attend a United Methodist Church now, and am mich more apiritually healthy. Gosh, but how I miss Apostolic music!!!
Tiffany, You are adorable!!! What a darling couple! I wish you ONLY the very best of life and fun and enjoying all that this life has to offer! You're made to be unique beings that are created for your specific journey. Love you both!! -Lori
Love you Lori!! ❤️
Chris Rosebrough is awesome
I’m not Lutheran but I have Lutheran brothers in Christ
I would probably identify as a reformed Baptist
But I’m a member of a reformed Presbyterian church ( PCA) church
We give a clear law/Gospel distinction.
I was born and raised Pentecostal (assemblies of God)
I came upon the first American school textbook.
It started off with your abc’s
And teaching you through the Westminster standards
And from there, I was like, how have I never heard of this?
Truly, Pentecostalism only goes back as far as the beginning of the 20th century
Thank you for sharing...it's important to know that pentecostalism is so similar across many denominations! They all think they have the ONE and only truth, haha. We are so appreciative to Chris and the work he does!
So where did you two land after you left? Just curious. Ty
By grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone....believers :)
Our podcast, Grace Escape (found on this channel) would probably provide more specifics, if you are interested.
I would think you would be discussing your new walk in place of calling out what you feel is false doctrines.
Being raised in the UPC with UPC preachers on both sides of my family including my father.....I have to ask you...Have you ever thought that you were raised in a cult?
According to the word's definition....yes.
However, we understand this word is very difficult to hear. We found Steven Hassan's BITE model (freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/) adequately describes what we were a part of growing up in the UPC, and in our opinion, is a more comprehensive, and maybe palpable, viewpoint.
this is cotton candy, this is the cool whip on a lemon meringue pie, a tickling of the ears.
How does one become saved? Born again? I hear a lot about works but James, Jesus' brother, said faith without works is dead. I hear a lot about the law but Jesus said if you look upon a woman to lust after her you have committed adultery already. It just seems to me that a lot of folks are looking for a watered-down version of Christianity.
I live in the twin cities area what kind of church that you attend now. I can garuntee while you have disagreements, that your church either has compromises and I don't mean standards, I mean sin and that we disagree with. The church doesn't teach that tongues is the power of sin but that the Spirit has power. Tongues are simply a sign. You don't have to speak in tongues everyday but as the Spirit gives utterance during prayer you will speak in tongues.
I told Gracie to watch this I know it's helping me
Good to hear ❤️
I was born Catholic and gone to several types of churches but never seen a church that didn’t have faults. Even the Acts church had problems if all you do is attack former churches you been to I see it as evil.
To be fair, that’s not all they do. They probably have a family they probably still at church. They probably still read their Bible. They probably still have friends. These all encompassing statements, really, do better
Seems like Robert Morris was the only tithe preacher on TBN look where he’s at now
I came out of that Doctorine.
Now Im out religious legalism now i know who who Jesus is The Son of the Living God 🙏🙏
Praise God!
Could you possibly talk about what your marriage looked like when Justin left and how you handled that?
I’ve been out for 17 years now and my husband and grown children and our grandchildren are still in. I am met with a lot of opposition when I ask my husband to read anything or study anything that isn’t OK'd by Mr. Benard.🙏🏻
We might go into some more detail in future videos, but we are always open for one on one conversations as well, if this would be helpful. Our email is justinandtiff (at) iCloud.com - replace the (at) with @.
We are praying for you during this long journey. It is not easy and we understand ❤️
As soon I heard they're statments about tithing, I immediately knew these guys know nothing about the bible or understanding it. Dont be decived by people like these who claim a form of godliness but deny the power there of.
I am not sure which church you went to, but all the preachers I have heard teach to study yourselves that not to rely on the preacher. Also they are not topical, they use and teach hermaneutics and exegete in context. I here topical watered down grace messages in denominal churches including the largest, the non-denominal churches. To me it sounds like you didn't understand the reason for your belief and understanding.
I am UPC from INDIA ,state mizoram
What is UPC?
United Pentecostal Church
Is there a way I could contact you all privately about something
Absolutely! You can email us at justinandtiff(at)icloud.com. Just replace the (at) with @, of course. From there, we can discuss other contact options, if needed 🙂
The UPC preaches repentance??? Wow....! We can't do anything on our own for the purpose of salvation....not even repent? Wow....! I don't know any church would preach that. If there is one denomination that would not preach repentance, I'd love to know who it is.
The main issue I have is baptism, they don't believe in the trinity. They told me to be baptised again, even I was baptised in the trinity. Forceful
They tried the same with me
I used to be ashamed to ask anyone to come to church with me because I knew they would pressure them almost force them to be baptized
@@tylernewman2317 same here
So who coined the word trinitas or trinity and who formulated the doctrine of the trinity?
@@Post-Trib so who coined the word omnipotent and omnipresent? Or the word Bible? 🤨
Don't know of the upc but anything you left that's affiliated with charismania!!!!....good for you,run like you've never run before!!!!Join a good Bible believing Baptist church.May the Lord guide you.God bless.
Haha! Run run run...yes!
You were sinners. You have been saved by grace. You now are a co-heir with Christ. If you are "just a sinner saved by grace." Then by your own faith, you will keep sinning. You now are new creations. If you sin after salvation it is by your own choice, not a fallen nature. You have a new name and new nature. It takes a lot of faith in sin. To the point of subconscious worship of sin. To believe it can wash over the blood of Jesus once the blood of Jesus has been applied to your life.
Your description of worship is subjective but i havent heard much scripture coming from your perspective.
Deuteronomy 13:1-5
13 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil[a] from your midst.
what does that even have to do with anything , that’s a subjective extraction of Dueteronomy to what? for what ? what’s your point?
what are the false doctrines?