The Sea is Trying to Kill You-Halsey's Typhoons with Jon Parshall - Episode 408
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- This week Seth and Bill welcome back good buddy Jon Parshall to discuss Admiral William F. Halsey and his dealings with two typhoons. Halsey drives Third Fleet directly into Typhoon Cobra in December 1944, and then does it again with Typhoon Viper in June 1945. The guys get into the details of the weather, Halsey's trust in his aerologist, the efforts to refuel the fleet, and ultimately, the stories of the ships that were sunk or damaged in what was, and still is, the worst natural disaster to ever befall the United States Navy. Over 800 US Navy sailors were killed in the typhoons in what was one of the war's greatest natural tragedies.
#wwii #wwiihistory #ww2 #usnavy #usa #usarmy #medalofhonor #enterprise #aircraft #aircraftcarrier #cv6 #midway #wwii #wwiihistory #ww2 #worldwar2 #usnavy #usnavyseals #usmc #usmarines #saipan #usa #usarmy #aircraft #aircraftcarrier #battleship #battleships #ussenterprise #aircraftcarriers #museum #essex #halsey #taskforce38 #wwii #wwiihistory #ww2 #usnavy #usa #usarmy #medalofhonor #enterprise #aircraft #aircraftcarrier #cv6 #midway #wwii #wwiihistory #ww2 #worldwar2 #usnavy #usnavyseals #usmc #usmarines #saipan #usa #usarmy #aircraft #aircraftcarrier #battleship #battleships #ussenterprise #aircraftcarriers #museum #hollywood #movie #movies #books #mastersoftheair #8thairforce #mightyeighth #100thbombgroup #bloodyhundredth #b17 #boeing #airforce wwii #wwiihistory #ww2 #usnavy #usa #usarmy #medalofhonor #enterprise #aircraft #aircraftcarrier #cv6 #midway #wwii #wwiihistory #ww2 #worldwar2 #usnavy #usnavyseals #usmc #usmarines #saipan #usa #usarmy #aircraft #aircraftcarrier #battleship #battleships #ussenterprise #aircraftcarriers #museum #hollywood #movie #movies #books #oldbreed #1stMarineDivision #thepacific #Peleliu #army #marines #marinecorps #worldwar2 #worldwar #worldwarii #leytegulf #battleofleytegulf #rodserling #twilightzone #liberation #blacksheep #power #prisoner #prisonerofwar #typhoon #hurricane #weather #iwojima#bullhalsey
My dad was a Chief Petty Office Machinist Mate on a Fletcher class Tin Can who sailed through Typhoon Cobra. As the seas got rough, he ordered everyone out of the engine room except a First Class and himself. In the other engine room, he had a First Class and a Second Class. There were injuries on board but no deaths. Before he passed away, he told me the story in the mid 70s and said he ordered the other men out in case they sank. He felt they might have a chance of rescue. They were on duty for 30 plus hours before it was safe to be relived. They had plenty of fuel but it was still bad.
I was a conning officer on the Frigate Doyle (FFG-39). On a trip to Norway with the Battleship Iowa, we refueled every two or three days, at night in freezing temps. The pumping capacity of a battleship was not all that great so we would be at unrep stations for 3/4 hours...the sea would be so rough, one had trouble standing up...the pressure/tension on the bridge team was so great that we would man the conn/helm and then be relieved by a back-up team. (and then I would go back and take-over the rig as safety officer)....It was brutal and one would be physically spent when it was all over.
The Iowa class was not built for the North Atlantic and North Sea. It is usually stormy there. And cold.
I never served but growing up all I really was interested in career wise was a becoming a Naval Officer. That would have scared me to death. Fear of F’ing up and fear of drowning. Thanks for sharing and for your service Gary.
@@PalleRasmussen I think the IOWA was sent to Newfoundland right after she was commissioned if I’m not mistaken.
@@PalleRasmussenthat’s malarkey. No American ship class was ever designed for a specific ocean. The Iowas spent plenty of time in every ocean of the world. Including the Atlantic.
@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar good morning. You are right. I confused a wet ship with a non-seaworthy one. That actually makes me slightly happy, as she is one of my favourite shipe. They and The Richelieus are so beautiful.
Love having Bill and that first hand experience on display here. It’s great to have a real mariner on the show.
Not just great, it's vital.
It makes this series a superb account of the naval aspects of the Pacific war.
Thank you for your service and dedication to the USA, US Navy and the history of US Navy.
I'm the son of a WW2 Vet, USN 1943-46 USS DD 731 MADDOX Halsey's fleet. The Maddox survived the typhoon, but a couple other destroyers of the destroyer class sank.
The stories I heard from my dad were heroic.
The Maddox would be a good ship to cover 4 battle stars, Kamikaze attack, night raid on Tokyo harbor with other fast surface ships, China occupation, etc.
The Maddox was the ship the started the Viet Nam war during the Gulf of Tokin incident.
Thanks again
quote> Just at the end of dinner that evening, an officer at a nearby table rose and came over. I recognized him as the skipper of one of the destroyers with which we had operated off Okinawa. He was a full Commander, and his Naval Academy class ring was prominent. I would have risen, but he held me down with a hand on my shoulder.
"I don't want to intrude on your evening," he said, looking down the table, "and I'm glad to see you enjoying yourselves, because you sure as hell deserve to! I couldn't help hearing that you're from the Abercrombie. We operated with you a couple of times out west and there's something I want to say." He paused, and he had the whole table's attention.
"You DE sailors," he went on, "did one hell of a job out there. Don't you ever take a back seat to anyone as far as fighting that war is concerned." (That last sentence was spoken like an order.) "You went out there right out of civilian life, most of you right out of school or your parents' homes, with a minimum of hurried training, in little ships that could have been better armed and equipped, and you did damned near everything we did with bigger, better, faster ships and a hell of a lot more training - and you did it just as well, sometimes better. I'm proud as hell of you and I want you to know it!"
The next morning after quarters I called the whole crew back on the fantail and repeated that little speech as best I could, being especially careful to cite its source. No man who heard it at either first or second hand has forgotten it. I like to think that it was because it had the ring of sincerity - and truth.
Edward P. Stafford - Little Ship Big War
There’s a bit of an irony that a storm saved Halsey in 1941 and nearly undoes his career in 1944 and 45.
Should have undone it, except that too big to fail was in effect already.
Drach's video on this was excellent due to his knowledge as an engineer. And now we get Bill and Jon also.
Wasn't he a civil engineer?
@@jbuckley2546 yes
But he doesn't have Bill's graphics. Love those boats !
@@michaelmoorrees3585 he was also never a sailor. That is why it is good to get the perspective of both
@@michaelmoorrees3585 🤣
The chemistry between you three is just wonderful. You managed to make weather very interesting!
Thank you very much!
All together now, class, “thou shalt not sail thine fleet directly into typhoons.”
"Thou shalt not open the conning tower hatch in thy submarine while at test depth."
The story was a key part to my leader ship training at GTNROTC when if you do the right thing, you may give the board the option of giving you a medal or court marshalling you or just hide the event. Also came up in drownproofing after action bull session
Thank you so much for another great episode. Never have thought listening to three people talking through naval history would feel better than any movie. You are making history fun, even when the content itself is horrible.
That’s role model work for history teachers.
Well said. Both informative and enjoyable.
Back in the 70s, I had a boss that was a 90 day wonder in WWII. Since he was a chemist and thus studied physics, they made him a fire control officer and he was on Halsey's flagship which was a battleship. He told us the terrible details of how the fleet went through a typhoon as well as how scared they were sailing into Tokyo harbor to conduct the Japanese surrender.
A riveting story, good job guys.
My dad was on the USS Bon Homme Richard in 1960. Among other places, he wound up in that pond Bill spoke of, the North Atlantic, being what it is, the ship got into some of those 30 foot swells. Dad said the ship had expansion joints along the length that had an 8 foot width, and they were slamming against the stops at both ends.
He said he thought they were having it rough, but he and a buddy were sent out on a catwalk outside on the hangar deck level. He said they were clinging to the rails for dear life, but caught something in their perrifial vision and looked out to the sea. He told me they saw a destroyer completely air borne, he could see the keel, the screws turning and the rudder flapping, then the destroyer hit a wave and went completely under water before bobbing up again.
He said they never complained about having it rough on a carrier again...
Quite a story. We hit 27-foot swells on the way to Gitmo in 1978. I was on the helm during the first-day watch of our passage through the outer banks. The POOD was still wiping the Helm (and compass down) from the previous watch. The Helmsman had barfed all over it. The cooks were evil - they'd served Kielbasa and Greens to the crew the night before we transited Cape Hatteras. Half the crew was sick from XO on down; I was taking Dramamine until I got tired of feeling like I was drunk and quit taking it. About that point, I figured I was not subject to seasickness.
I am familiar with two kinds of coffee:
1} Cowboy coffee - heat up a pot of grounds and add muddy hot water until the spoon starts to sink.
2} Mid-watch coffee - tested by showing it dissolves HY80 and SS255 metals after 0300.
I can attest to mid watch coffee
@@rcwagon midwatch coffee will make sure that you be in the bathroom
My eyes banged open so hard one dark morning around 0300 On my third cup of mid-watch coffee that they’re just now learning to close, sixty odd years later.
As Robert Heinlein said, coffee comes in 4 flavors, "Java, Joe, Jamoke & Carbon Remover".
Well said, I had a different take above that gives a little different flavor.
The channel "If ____ were honest "coffee is said to have "that wet cigar, boiled asphalt flavor"
Decades ago, I had a barside chat with the CO and SWO of the USS The Sullivan's. At that time, USN just named a DDG after Halsey. The CO was not happy about that because of the regrettable loss of the DD's due to Cobra and he placed that blame on Halsey.
I just got done watching this; been doing it in snatches all week. Funished up my sermon and finished up the show. Thanks, gents! The closest ive been to something like this was in autumn, 1979, i *think*. I was in Seminary in Philadelphia. A hurricane came up the coast and into Delmarva. Then up Delaware Bay. It downgraded to tropical storm just before it got to us in the north, Montgomery County, burbs. My dorm was a stone former mansion. I was on the lee side. I couldn't sleep all night from the roar of the wind. Got up in the night and looked out -- couldn't see much past the driveway! This was "only" a tropical storm. What horrors these poor sailors went through.
It's been awhile since I saw Capt. Toti this fired up.
Not a better way to start the morning than some coffee and some naval history with Jon Parshall!
My cousin, Gerry Johnson, was lost when USS Hull went down
Sorry for your loss
Having just finished reading "The Caine Mutiny," the timing of this episode could not be better.
Herman Wouk’s ‘The Caine Mutiny’ is a great gateway into World War II history. Wouk’s fictional destroyer minesweeper USS Caine was based on Wouk’s actual experience as a reservist Naval Officer who served on converted old four stack destroyers in the Pacific. Reading that book in about 1961 or 1962, when I was nine or ten years old, was one of the starting points for an amateur devotee of history. Details of the real experiences of those who went through Typhoon Cobra demonstrate Wouk’s attention to accurate detail in his novel.
I read it at that age too and have been an amateur historian for the last 60 years since.
Served 22 yrs in the Navy, as a seagoing line officer. For me, the great thing about The Caine Mutiny is how my perception of the story would change each time (have read it at least 4 times over the years). I'd come away with a different idea about the personalities, duties/responsibilities, and who the "villains" and "heroes" of the story are. Because as I progressively gained naval rank myself, I'd identify most closely with a different character. I just was fascinated over time how the same words, the same story, would have a different impact on me; it was like reading it fresh every time.
In the 1970s the UNREP speed was around 20kts. Also that nipple on the end of the hose weighs around 300 pounds and is smooth (no good handholds). As MIDN 4/c I was assigned to Deck Division at the time and got tasked to prep the lines for an UNREP drill with the USS Sherman Forrest. Later we (USS Iwo Jima LPH-2) were side by side with the Sherman Forrest humping along at 20kts when they had a boiler go dropping their speed to ~10kts. Twenty knots was close to maximum for the Iwo but 10 was too low so after about an hour we returned to GITMO. I left the Iwo before any subsequent UNREP drills. The Caribbean is a pretty calm place for this practice
I was on the iwo jima in 88 on a unrep the first one I think I got fuel oil in my eyes a nice 4 hour visit to sick bay to get my eyes washed
Great to see John back with his great shirt game and the legendary wallpaper
I once met a Navy veteran who had been an AA gunner on a carrier in one of Halsey's Typhoons. He confirmed being at his station-near the back of the ship-watching the stern go up and down fifty feet at a time. Just terrifying to even hear his description.
I love Mr Parshall’s wall paper. I’ve watched as many videos of his that I can, and that wallpaper makes me laugh every time.
It's practically iconic! Or something...
Bill's sarcasm is the best sarcasm.
One of those tankers hauling oil out to the Pacific front lines was USNS Mission San Luis Rey. The ships crew were merchant marines, but she was defended by US Navy Armed Guard. One of which was my father.
Captain Toti, your participation in this particular episode was absolutely pivotal! Your explanation of the science involved was spot on. Of course I always enjoy Jon's expert input and value his viewpoint above most all others... but this time Bill carried the mail! Of course without Seth, those two would never have been brought together so he gets kudos too. Thank you gentlemen for making an outstanding episode out of an incident that most War Buffs would think "Ho hum... what else can I watch?"
My father was on the USS Tingey DD539 assigned to Task Group 38.2, which is a Fletcher Class destroyer. Dad said they would go over one wave and under the next two. They were taking on green water through aft stack. They had rolls of 75 degrees. Obviously he survived. When I was in the Navy on board the USS Peleliu LHA 5 in the mid 90’s and we were crossing the Northern Pacific Ocean in November/December time period and hit heavy seas. We had welded to the deck filing cabinets breaking loose in 47 degree rolls. Great fun!!!
Semper fi brother I do believe i was in that storm with you I was a Marine with the 15th MEU my armory was right under the forcastle anchor tube going through our space i remember the water coming in after the port holes got blown out in the forcastle. and walking down the passageways was fun!
@@lostatsea1776 Yes it was when the 15th MEU was on board. I’m not sure how Marines get paid but on the Navy side the house we have the dispersing office. On that trip, they had a four draw safe that broke loose and fell over and jammed. There was several thousands of dollars on postal money orders in it. The EOD guys had to blow the safe open right there on the ship. So the CCTV guys played Butch Cassidy and Sundance kids because of train heist when they had to blow the safe; they obliterating the whole train car. Semper Fi!
I have stumbled upon your Podcast with Bill over the last month and have been listening to it on my way to work and home from work. I am just up to the Invasion of Biak.
I am a retired Navy Chief {FCC(sw)} (1981-2003) (Tin Can sailor). My father served in WWII as an Electricians Mate on an LSM in WWII. He never talked to much about it in detail. We would relate some sea stories about our service. I remember him saying one time that his LSM was caught in a typhoon late in the war. Low and behold I just saw that you did a podcast about Typhoon Cobra and Viper. I intend on listening to it today on my way home.
Thanks to you, Bill, and Jon. Please keep up the great work.
I read that the various skippers refused to say anything to Halsey as they sailed into the storm. Finally the captain of Saratoga after seeing the eyewall on his radar broadcast on TBS "Will someone steer us out of this typhoon".
Are you sure it's not another carrier? Saratoga was back in Pearl Harbor on training duty.
I may be mistaken about what carrier it was. But it was said over TBS.
Really making me remember the two times i took a pinball ride on an lcu in the well deck.
I remember those LCUs and LCAC's coming out of the well deck of my ship(USS Belleau Wood)
I think Admiral Halsey had a nervous breakdown during the Philippines invasion and never fully recovered, leading him to make mistake after mistake.Rather than to confront a problem,he would just stand and ring his hands together, hoping for the best.His staff were to afarid to confront him about his many unstable decisions.He was left in command and continued to make mistakes which cost the life of many sailors and the loss of valuable material.Chester knew it,but liked him to much to relieve him of his command.Thanks guys for the video.
A Queeg?
@@gbcb8853 BOGIE?
@@markpaul-ym5wg Aye!
@@gbcb8853 AAaarrrrr.
@@gbcb8853 See the original Caine Mutiny.
Once upon a time in the 80s I was on the USS Cavalla (SSN684) and we got run out of Hong Kong by a typhoon. Bill will know, but the surface transit to the dive point out of HK is about 12 hrs. We were navigating with the scope. After one watch one of the helmsmen told me we were showing 60 ft depth transients … while on the surface. Pretty much everyone not in the rack was sea sick, we weren’t quite walking on bulkheads, but the rolls made it something to consider. That was an unpleasant experience
Edit: Never spent time on a DD but wouldn’t trying to ballast down in the fuel tanks that are 80% empty risk mixing in water into the fuel feed in seas that rough, I would be certain that they had separators but it’s going to test them. My MM1(SS) experience says that the ability to take on ballast would be greatly dependent on configuration of the intakes.
Correct. My very laymen understanding is that, contrary to what everyone would expect, DDs didn’t ballast into separate tanks but rather into their ordinary fuel tanks and relied on gravity to separate the fuel from the sea water. Crazy but, I think, true.
I was only an HT but with a lot of Diesel experience afterwards on pleasure craft.
I thought the same thing. The fuel would have emulsified in those seas.
I don't really like coffee but I have an insatiable desire to try that navy coffee
As a Volunteer at the Columbus Ohio VA, I got to know a Lieutenant William “Bill” Hamilton, who was an engineering officer on the USS Quincy (CA-71). He was a plank officer on the USS Quincy since its launch in 1943.
In the many talks I had with Mr. Hamilton, he shared about the time the USS Quincy went through Typhoon Connie (Viper) in June of 1945. During his watch in the engineering section, he remembers when the USS Quincy took a list of 45 degrees from a wave and he felt the ship list to 45 degrees on inclinometer, and stayed there for what seemed like many minutes (even though he says it probably was a short time) before finally returning to a more even keel. The deck would bend too, which was pretty unnerving to this young officer from Ohio. In the same storm, when he was off duty, he remembers looking outside of the porthole at the USS Pittsburgh steaming near the USS Quincy. Lt. Hamilton saw the USS Pittsburgh go down in the trough of a wave and came up missing its bow. It was at this time Lt Hamilton remembered the USS Pittsburgh is the same class as the USS Quincy (Baltimore class) and was wondering if the Quincy would have the same fate as her sister ship.
As the only qualified movie projector operator on the ship, he ran the movie projector for President Roosevelt and his entourage when they were on board the USS Quincy headed to Yalta. Sadly, Mr. Hamilton passed away at age 100 in 2021. It was a joy to have talked with him.
Great episode as always! I remember reading the book Halsey's Typhoon some years ago and being blown away by the sheer power of the storm. Cannot begin to imagine the terror and horror of being on one of the DD's and knowing once it capsized it was, as Jon said, "Game over...."
John is not a nerd he is an Expert nerds study; battles, strategies, and tactics. Experts study logistics and systems.
Thank you for your service and dedication to the USA, US Navy and the history of US Navy.
I'm the son of a WW2 Vet, USN 1943-46 USS DD 731 MADDOX Halsey's fleet. The Maddox survived the typhoon, but a couple other destroyers of the destroyer class sank.
The stories I heard from my dad were heroic.
The Maddox would be a good ship to cover 4 battle stars, Kamikaze attack, night raid on Tokyo harbor with other fast surface ships, China occupation, etc.
The Maddox was the ship the started the Viet Nam war during the Gulf of Tokin incident.
Here's to the "Tin Can Sailors"!
Thanks again
Thanks for another great episode. One correction: at 1:32:28 Bill incorrectly stated Gerald Ford was not a lawyer. Before becoming a Naval Officer or president, he attended University of Michigan Law School for a summer and graduated in the top third of his class from Yale Law School.
I share the loss of a son of my home church, Zion Lutheran in Lexington SC - the sinking of the USS Spence.
Inscription on Grave Monument
"He volunteered for service in WWII, joining the US Navy 11-10-1942. Gallantly and heroically he served his country until he lost his life in the line of duty. From childhood he was active in Sunday School. He dearly loved his church. He was a cheerful giver. His pleasant smile reflected his beautiful character."
Rest in Peace William Woodrow Kleckley
What a tragic story. Imagine losing a loved one in combat but a mishap like this has to be a difficult matter. I think Halsey's mistake was not relieving the weather officer after the first one. Riding one out in a sub on the surface must have been a harrowing experience Bill--and short of crew no less. Thanks Seth, Bill, and Jon--another really interesting episode!
On an LST( small) I saw the crew work us through a helluva typhoon , very impressive from Formosa straits to W. Phillipines. Grateful to be alive in old Olongapo
This storm is a thinly disgguised culmination of the movie "The Caine Mutiny"...Great Movie...
Yes. I didn't realize it until I listened to this episode. It's amazing the stuff you learn from this podcast.
It is indeed a great movie. But an even greater book.
@@cragnamorra Absolutely!!
As punishment, Admiral King or Nimitz should have ordered Admiral Halsey to personally write the 800+ letters of condolence to the families of the sailors who died.
I don't know how Halsey's weather guy kept his job after Typhoon Cobra
The weather service was much different then, compared to now. The incoming weather zone was in enemy hands at that time.
This episode reminds me of two things I experienced as an RM2 on a tin can in the early 80's. The first was an UNREP detail I served in when I first reported aboard. We were about to hit a storm and the tender came alongside to top us off so we sat lower in the water. Our station was on the bow, and as they shot the line over to us, we hit a wave that pushed us all against the lifelines. It was the most dangerous experience I had in the service and UNREP duty in a storm situation is not easy. The second is a storm we went through where we had a bulk shredder welded to the deck to destroy classified material. The storm had us rocking pretty badly and the shredder came off its mount and smashed into the nearest bulkhead. Bill was right to say you can never secure from a storm entirely. I can only imagine going through a typhoon. May the sailors that perished RIP.
Bill Tori. Thank you for your service. I’ve always been fascinated with Submarines. My Son-In-Law served on a Nuclear Attack Submarine in the early 90’s as a nuclear power operator. The boat he served on has been decommissioned. It’s interesting that several years working for Brunswick Power and Light, he was at a seminar in Atlanta and a gentleman was giving a class and afterward he approached him and said “Sir” “ DO I KNOW YOU?” He said you look familiar. “John said to him I served on US SUNFISH Attack Sub. The gentleman said that’s it. “I was the Navigator on that sub”. Small world.
Seen some pretty tough and challenging things on this channel, and Capt Todi's typhoon boat graphics are right up there
LOL. Our Captain is a ToTi.
1:03:25. My dad was a torpedoman aboard the USS Nehenta Bay. After he passed away, my mom told me that he confided in her that he had nightmares almost every night about the war years. Pretty sure going through Typhoon Cobra was part of some of his nightmares.
Another episode to add to the breadth of the Pacific theater and not just a battle by battle exposition. Predicting weather is an inexact science just watch the local news channels and see how it plays out with very advanced technology and methods. Great to see Jon again, well done Seth and Bill.
Bill really shined in this one! Jon was brilliant as always, and Seth once again does yeoman work in keeping the discussion on track. What an awesome team. Superb job, you guys!! 😎
I LOVE the detail in this episode. its absolutely fascinating. Especially Bill's anecdotes and tutorials.
Since I'm locked down from these SC storms I'll truly enjoy this episode!
South Carolina? I’m in NC are the storms that bad?
Boy - that was hard work and executed very, very well. Seamanship is 1 - Academics -2. Practical experience in other words is still king.
Great episode that strikes close to me. My dad served as a signalman on a Fletcher class destroyer (USS David W. Taylor) during Typhoon Cobra. He said it was terrifying. At one point his ship was on the crest of a wave and he could look down at a cruiser in the trough of a wave. (Not sure if it was a light or heavy crusier). When his ship would ride in the trough between waves they could only see a wall of water all around them. Small ships like his would go over a crest of a wave and the fanttail would come out of the water and expose the screws spinning wildly. Everyone was sea sick including old salts who had been in the navy for 20 years. Amazing what his generation went through.
@rustymchugh3670 my dad also was a signalman on halsey-powell or one of the other destroyers in that division. His watch was by the flag bags during the storm at night. So watching the water and crest of the waves as the ship was sloughing through the rain must have been something else. He said you couldn't see much. He was soaked to the bone after a few hours. He stepped into the radio shack to gather himself. The senior noncom or officer there ordered him back out, there maybe Japanese submarines out there. I believe my dad asked for a cup. I believe he either said to the higher rank or thought to himself, there's noting to see out there. And then went back out for the rest of his watch. Obviously they got through it. But I think the smoke stack sustained some damage. Wild ride.
I remember reading up on this sad event. This episode provides more detail so that I can now understand what hell those brave men went through. May they rest in peace.
Halsey's greatest mistake...and also thinking of the fact that it was a natural typhoon that wrecked the Mongol fleet that invaded Japan.
Thanks much for another great episode, for which I offer the subtitle, The Landlubbers Guide to Tropical Weather.
It was also nice to hear a President Ford story that had nothing to do with his predecessor. The Gerald R Ford School of Public Policy building is located on the campus where he played football and is a mere one block away from the former Navy barber who has been cutting my hair for many years.
Ordered "The Whole Fleet," 3-pack of coffee on your recommendations
My mother’s uncle Eddy was on the carrier that had its flight deck folded. He said “green water was breaking over the flight deck…” At one point, he said the captain came over the intercom and told the men that they may have to abandon ship, and that the crew should prepare for that eventuality. Uncle Eddy said, ‘I’ll be damned if I get off this big ship and get into a little boat!
The carrier (I think it was the Wasp, but I can’t remember. It was the one seen in pictures with the front of its flight deck folded down) obviously survived the storm, but my mothers uncle… and probably every man in that fleet… was terrified beyond anything any of us can possibly fathom. Uncle Eddy went on to become rather wealthy, and was the vice president of The Hartford insurance company. He went back and forth between residences in Hartford, Connecticut, and a house in Redondo Beach, California. He and his wife (my grandmother’s younger sister, Verna) had a Winnebago motor home that they tracked across the country in as they went back and forth between homes. They adopted two children, a boy and a girl, and lived full lives until they both passed away in the 90’s.
It was the Hornet. My mistake. She was the ship with the dog-eared edges of her flight deck. One thing to note; no matter how many times I talked to my mothers uncle-and I was a World War 2 fanatic since I could read (I was a teenager by that time)-he never blamed Admiral Halsey for the predicament he found himself in that fateful evening. We had very in depth discussions that I don’t think Eddy had with many others up to that point, but he never disparaged anyone for what he and his fellow crewmen experienced.
Having been in the service myself, I know that enlisted men can and do often complain. You always have what we call “shithouse lawyers,” and Monday morning quarterbacks who absolutely would’ve ‘done things differently,’ yet there are at least two sailors (my uncle Eddy and a guy who hung out at our firehouse that served on BOTH Yorktowns) who never talked bad about their commanders.
Thank you for sharing, very interesting to hear his perspective!
I was in the Navy from Jan 12, 1988, to Jan 12, 1990, after joining as a non-rated Sea College program. I wanted to be an officer and pilot, and this program gave me that opportunity. I finished a BA in April 93. I wish I had gone back in as a surface warfare officer or, even more so, a subsurface officer. Instead I took an early out and went to an airline.
I love flying but have found
I love the Navy despite all its faults and extreme challenges.
oooo, youtube algo got it right. they recommended me the podcast I listen to before bed on spotify! Love love love the podcast fellas. I was on a fishing charter, 23 footer, off SE florida. waves were around 6ish feet and some 10-12 thrown in. period was probably 13-15 seconds. I was feeling it extremely. I can only imagine the seas in the situation and boats that size. that is a nightmare.
My late father told me that if I wanted to be a boss I would have to learn to drink my coffee white, so it would be cooler and I could finish it before anyone else.
"Real" navy coffee, when I was serving, had to have sat on the Bunn hot plate for at least two hours until it had the consistency of light grease. Only when Chief Petty Officers, with a permanent curl in their index finger from holding a coffee cup for fifteen years or more, could stand a spoon up in it after a stir was it considered just right.
This is so ironic it's almost fortuitous. I'm watching this video with a tropical storm expected to hit in 12 hours.
1:44:46 "King was livid", so a Tuesday for him. As his daughter said, "My father was the most even-tempered man in the world. He was always in a rage "
Also, by saving 55 men Tabberer increases the number of bodies on board from 215 to 270, so by 26%.
When the atmospheric starts dropping, a typhoon is coming!
this is off topic, still at the 3:35 mark, but i had to post after listening to Bill talk NAVY coffee, first time poster, long time subscriber, ex-USN, NavSecGru-Korean, thank you Bill! I'm know I'm not alone, meaning back home, Upper Midwest, on the ranch, and nobody, none of my buds will drink my coffee, "What is that, is it tar?"..."You got any creamer, or sugar to cut this STUFF with?"....and my response is a bit harsh. Skipper...they dont understand the words "mid-watch", and just an IMHO, its ironic, we have the "North" push, and the Southern push....and the best coffee is South Pacific, Sumatra, Celebes, PNG, etc. Back to the episode, God love you all.
Alas....after 50+ years of Navy coffee...I've had to resort to cutting my coffee with cream....stomach just can't take the tar anymore! Getting old has so many disadvantages, and that is right up there on the list!
@@garymackey850 amen shipmate...this episode is a mountaintop, a tutorial from Bill, i was always sigint, not SWO, learned a lot, i miss the ROK and the USN, be well.
My morning is now complete
This is unbelievable to listen to. You really get a sense of how intense this was.
Thanks once again, gentlemen. I devour all of your technical discussions about every facet that impacts battles and thus, world history. Bravo Zulu!
I believe I have berated in the comments of every RUclips Jon Pashall video when people call his shirts dumb or ugly 😂. Love em Jon.
I love them, though likely would not wear most of them. Seeing Jon in a normal, boring shirt would automatically have me asking where is Jon Parshall and what have you done with him? Seeing what shirt he is wearing is part of the fun of watching him talk.
@@alganhar1 😂
The shirts are his shtick now. Look at some podcasts he did about 4 or more years ago, and he is wearing normal shirts. It is weird seeing him like that compared to his shirts today.
My Father-in-Law's ship, USS Poole (DE 151) logged a 72 degree roll to port in the August 1944 hurricane on their way back to NY
My uncle Bob was quartermaster of DD-672, Fletcher class USS Healy, during Halsey's Typhoon. Received a citation for his helmsmanship to keep his ship upright when 3 other DDs floundered.
This was a particularly fascinating discussion - thanks guys!
I’ve seen this covered about this incident and no mention that the ships, specifically the DD’s being low on fuel.
An admittedly trivial observation. The whole of the first hour I could not help but think of the poem "The Wreck of the Hesperus" by Longfellow. In this poem the skipper sees that the wind is veering and is warned by a seasoned sailor to put into port. He ignores the warning and loses his ship crew, daughter and his own life. Bill is exactly right. True mariners have always known how to react to an approaching storm and they should not be ignored.
i found it frustratingly obvious that of all people Kosco was not sent home not once but twice as he should have been for his complete incompetence as to the events as they unfolded. it came across as a military service protecting their own from bad publicity during a time of war that the people at home did not need to hear about as we were losing our young men on a daily basis. I can understand Halsey being protected as was MacArthur at the wars outset as both should have been relieved of duty. It shows the publics power in protecting those as we are seeing similar issues today. It is incredulous that something like this happened twice. But again in that point in time it was understandable that no action was taken towards Halsey. But how in the world did he get a fifth star? Very interesting episode gentlemen. Tuesdays cant get here fast enough. Thank you!
I think the fifth star came as a result of his performance early in the war. I am in the camp that Spruance was much more deserving but a good PR campaign is hard to overcome.
Keeping Halsey may have been the right thing, but the 5th star when Spruance didn’t get it, no.
I did 2 Westpacs(87&89) and was very lucky to never encounter Typhoons. Good AG's(Aerographer's mate's)help out too!👍🏾
You guys are awesome, AGAIN. I have listened to maybe 3 discussions of “ HALSEYS TYPHOON “. Yours is by far the best! As a trivia note, I think in one of the discussions about Gerald Ford was that he came within a hair Breath of getting swept off the flight deck of his carrier in the typhoon. Can’t wait for the next episode. 👍
Thank you Bill Seth and Jon.
I've heard it in the Army context, but makes sense in the Navy as well...if you don't have the gas, you can't kick some ass.
Hugely fascinating to me, was this episode. 1) My wife and I faced some unpredicted weather two weeks ago when cruising Casco Bay, Maine in our little sailboat. Fog held us at anchor in an island harbor and we were pushed back into port by heavy (for us) seas when attempting to leave. Nothing like what faced those sailors of Cobra and Viper, but white knuckles and recognition of the oceans' power. 2) I am listening just a few miles away from the shipyard where USS Spence and USS Maddox were built - Bath Iron Works. In fact, my grandfather almost certainly helped build both.
Thanks again for these wonderful accounts and analyses.
My grandfather was on the Alabama for this. He said it was one of the very few times he was convinced he was not going home from the war.
Read the ships war diary for the day and they were showing over 45 degrees list in the storm. Kinda wild to think something that comes in over 40,000 tons can just be tossed around like that.
1:21 "in over his head" Good one, Captain Toti!
Thanks Bill for all the Stories and especially Sea Stories with all the naval details. Looks like you all had fun. That's what makes the series so good.
This story would make an incredible movie. Scarier than a horror movie.
I’ve been waiting for this episode forever!!! So excited to listen….
Bill, sorry to correct you but Gerald Ford was a 1941 graduate of the Yale Law School, graduating in the top third of his class.
I saw in interview with a PO who was on the Monterey with Ford during Typhoon Cobra. Retuning from the hanger fire, Ford went on the flight deck as she heeled to port. Ford slide across the whole deck only to be saved buy the gun catwalk safety railing. IIRC, by his feet landing on it so he could grad the deck edge.
My dad was on the USS Hornet. He saw one of the destroyers go up and down, up and down, up and down, and never came back up.
Thank you for an enlightening couple of hours. Cheers from Australia.
Was so excited to see this come up on my notifications!! Thank you, gentlemen!!! Appreciate your spending some of your precious minutes on this. Will see if my wife likes the battleship blend. ☕️
Another GREAT episode!!! This logistics thing is starting to interest me greatly. Never knew or heard of, yet it is such an obvious point, the civilian tankers bringing fuel/supplies to the PTO. Were any of these tankers or supply ships ever attacked by the IJN? Are these ships also staffed by the Merchant Marine like in the Atlantic?
Yet another excellent video, informative and well presented. The level of detail presented by people who know what they are talking about makes this series riveting must see viewing. This series of videos far exceeds any mainstream broadcasts. Nice one gents.
Irony of listen to this episode and topic as Deppy plows through my homestate of South Carolina. This episode was the most detailed I've ever heard on the Typhoons. I agree with Seth, the thoughtof being on one of the destroyers is pure horror.
As a submariner in the 80s Bill probably never had to deal wth "Small Pipe", and is used to satelite comms. 15 hour delay in receiving routine HF reports is NOT unusual, HF transmission ship to ship is extremely unpredictable, the routine is to transmit ship to shore and then relay on fleet broadcast. Remember what happened to Pueblo and Liberty, both of which wee still relying on HF in early 70s communications. By late 70s all long range comms were satelite "CUDIX", except during "Small Pipe" exercises.
These typhoons were the reason that postwar all combatant fuel tanks were designed to automatically fill with seawater as the fuel was used, requiring extensive fuel oil purification systems.
Metacentric height is also a double edged sword with a sweet spot. Too low and you will capsize, but you will ride smoothly. Too high and you will ride roughly, increasing structural damage and the probability of things breaking loose, and now all sorts of bad things can happen.
I live in tropical Australia. Hurricanes and typhoons are tropical cyclones. Usually slow moving, can change direction anytime. Very unpredictable. I built houses in Darwin a year after Cyclone Tracy that hit on Christmas Eve 1975. The wind measuring instrument broke at 300 kph. The damage was amazing. A car on a roof of a 3 story building, a fridge stuck in the side of a water tower 60 feet off the ground. Railway lines and tire rolled up like a ball of wool. The worst tragedy in US history the Galveston hurricane in 1900. At least 10,000 dead. Read Jacob’s Storm.
Wow! I just learned a tremendous amount about seamanship, the dynamics of naval vessels, and a very disturbing bit of history. Well done!
Great show . Let's hear the oilers story. Love u guys . Rock on Jon. more maps Bill . Cool ship on your map.