90,000 SCORCH STACKS BUT WHAT DO I DO WITH IT | Hades 2
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
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I HAD A RUN WHERE I GOT LIKE 4000 SCORCH ON CERBERUS BUT NO EXTINGUISHER OR ZEUS OR ANYTHING SO I DIED BY TIMER
ok but why are you yelling
FIRE EXTINGUISHER IS BUGGED, IT DID EXPLOADE BUT DID NOT APPLY THE DAMAGE, THE SCORCH JUST GONE
WHAT'S THAT? SOMETHING ABOUT A PRIDE OF TIGERS?
Hera and Hestia Duo is so good on the Torches since the normal attack counts as channeling
Hitch and Scorch are honestly really strong together too, overall some of the fastest and easiest room clears I've had have been just applying like 80 scorch on all enemies and hitching them all. Especially if you can get Natural Gas and Dying Wish. It's the best DPS increase for Scorch without a Duo or Legendary. Does nothing for bosses though, which is where scorch sucks anyway.
@@meekumanu idk, did a on hit build with scorch, was quite decent ngl. I do suppose it's more a wait it out kinda build so probably go in, spend all your mana and get out ? Some of the mana regen spam seems kinda fit if you dont have that consume all sorch and reset boon.
Something I've noticed in this game so far, either the hammers are really good, or annoyingly bad on a lot of weapons, which is a really b ad feeling. You still want to take the hammers just because its fun but then you get saddled with 2 things that actively hurt you and 1 thing you will never use on purpose. Maybe it was like this too when hammers were first added in Hades 1, but I hope it gets fixed soon the outliers are pretty clear I think.
No, no I really noticed, it feels like runs are either shit or godly depending on the specific broken hammers
Yeah launch Hades Vs EA Hades was a different beast, they'll be taking a lot of notes on what people say and how they play rn.
i agree with this so much
This is why it's super important to voice your opinions to the devs during EA, this is literally your chance ti influence the game since they're actively listening and looking for your input.
it sucks hard that hammers need to cover 4 abilities now, attack, special and their omegas, makes it even more RNG dependent to get a good build together than hades 1, hurts even more that some hammer effects are so bad.
the gods just abandoning you halfway through the run is so true, had a poseidon run on surface, where almost immediately, i got 4 hestia boons in a row 💀 (ephyria)
Her arms must get so tired holding those torches up like that
I played Lumiere onstage once, I can confirm that her arms hurt really bad
This might be a hot take, but if an enemy has more Scorch stacks than current HP; they should kind of just, die on the spot? Or at the very least burn faster the more Scorch overkill is on them.
Agreed. Instead of slow cooker just make it Air Fryer. Like 4 fire infusion boons or something
I decided to do a Hestia build with Pan blades right before you uploaded, funnily enough.
I had:
Wave Strike, Flame Flourish, Slippery Slope, Engagement Ring, Born Gain, Controlled Burn, Spontaneous Combustion, Fire Extinguisher, Funeral Pyre, Scalding Vapor.
The run was perfect; I was doing so well.
And then my game crashed out of nowhere while I was in the middle of Tartarus...
Aa
Pan with blitz and static shock was enough to crash for me. Would’ve been my first fear 8 run :( super satisfying until crash
Scorch overall just needs a huge buff, it's not necessarily weak as a secondary source of damage but it's too reliant on certain tier 2s, duos and the legendary. It doesn't even have the advantage that Dionysus's poison had where you could keep pomming the boon to make it quite powerful.
Compared to the strength of the other alternate damage effects in the game at the moment (blitz, poseidon waves, Hephaestus) it just falls behind.
IMO It should increase it's tick-rate/damage cap per second, based on how many stacks you have. Even something like 1% increased tick rate per 300 stacks would be enough, it wouldn't affect how strong it is vs enemies but would make it better to build into getting super high scorch against bosses.
Like in this situation that would still only be 4x damage increase from scorch at a massive 90k stacks, and you'd actually get value out of pomming the boons to apply more scorch. And it would consume itself faster the more stacks you get, so you would actually have to put some work in to get an amount that starts to melt bosses.
Considering how many of the duo boons just apply more scorch instead of doing something with the massive amount of scorch, this would be a good way to make it actually viable damage for bosses.
On the other hand, the Hestia/Poseidon duo is fking awesome.
Hestia just isn't great at the moment. Scorch applies less damage over time than splash does in instant damage, so even if you have a fast hitting weapon you're better off with Poseidon. Yeah Hestia has other good boons but seems like that needs to be taken a look at
Edit: Looks like scorch deals more damage on the attack, splash deals more damage on the special. I'm guessing there's an oversight on the numbers somewhere. There's also the problem that bosses will often cleanse scorch during phases
you should get glass after defeating him in that way
I think it would be really interesting if the infusions had tiers like the boons. So when you find them they'd be at common so you only need 3 of whatever the element it'll do something (for example the common to rare thing with Hera) but then if you get more of that element it can buff the infusion to rare and epic etc. So your common boons would go to rare then when you get another earth to epic then to heroic and you could limit how many it effects instead or something. It would work for most of the infusions I've seen like the dodge one for air could just give you like 5-10-15-20 etc. That would be cool
Glad to see you didn't get fire extinguisher! For me and a few others from what I've seen, it doesn't work :( The scorch disappears and doesn't damage at all from the looks of it, I've looked at clips and the healthbar doesn't seem to move and no damage markers pop up
works just fine for me i use it on the double moonblast machinegun staff builds
It's worked fine for me. It just isn't a good damage solution for scorch anyway, since so much of the scorch playstyle is about applying it in massive amounts to enemies, and the one payoff consumes all the stacks at a really bad rate. At least it's better than Arctic Blast from first game, but not by much.
I see no reason why you should be able to apply 90k of a stacking DoT in a game like this and the only thing to make it worth it is a legendary that still doesn't really do *that* much damage. Scorch needs a rework.
patch notes say it should be fixed now
Isn't it fixed?
@@meekumanu Extinguisher at common it's kind of rough, but if you're hitting 300 scorch on an enemy quickly, you're applying it (much) faster than the tick-down rate, so you wouldn't actually see a lot of that damage go through anyway. Just like with Halien's fights against Chronos and Cerberus here, sure, there's thousands of theoretical damage chilling there, but that damage won't actually affect health bars without extinguisher, so the rate isn't that terrible. With poms and higher rarities, you can get the extinguisher multiplier to be over 100%, so I don't think Extinguisher is inherently a problem/bad boon. Arctic blast isn't a great comparison, since it was a way to turn a cc curse into a damaging one, and could still go crazy if you had really fast ways to apply chill.
I do definitely agree that Scorch in general needs some love though. A cap on the damage per tick is okay, but I think it needs to be higher than 40 and/or scale with something other than just Hestia legendary. Maybe Hestia infusion also boosts scorch tick-down cap (+5% = +2 scorch/second per fire boon)? Or scorch ticks faster if the thing you apply it with has a higher power? Or just more boons that increase it or the speed at which your damaging curses apply. I dunno, but I think the damage per tick and ticks per second is what they need to really look at.
39:54 Int limit for a 32-bit int is ~4.2 billion. For a 64-bit int, it's ~9.2 quintillion.
Looking at the tight deadline timer, between 11:34.00 and 11:24.00, you applied a net +1837 scorch over the 10 seconds.
Ignoring the target's health pool (therefore all other damage), invulnerability phasing, and your need to dodge attacks, it (double the number then add 1837) would take ~23 consistent applications (~3:48 minutes) to reach the 32-bit int limit and ~54 consistent applications (~9 minutes) to reach the 64-bit int limit.
Due to scorch burning 40 damage per second and freeze only being applicable every 10 seconds (so 400 total), so long as you can get the scorch safely above 1000, you could turtle up in such a way that you only attack once roughly every 10 seconds to reapply freeze to double the scorch. Assuming phase 2 never resets scorch, reaching at least the 32-bit limit might be plausible as that would have burned away 92,000 health (400 * 230).
I love smart people
32 integer limit is 4.2 billion
@@AmeliaDarc Thanks, another typo fixed.
Since its a boon you only get 40 scorch damage... but imagine Hestia with her gun and able to apply more with 1 bullet.
She just fires for 200 dmg and they get cooked to death
born gain is definitely getting nerfed, there’s no way
The punishment of Born Gain is you get more Hera boons.
We will see after the Oath Of The Unseen is Factored into the Equation. 🤔
I’d love for Hypnos to give you the ability for dream runs. As in you can play around with parameters for unofficial runs. Guarantee which gods are in the pool. Choose how many hammers show up etc. only unlocked once you beat the game properly
The Hera infusion should be + rarity for each 3 stone
Edit: Also born gain is wayyy overpowered, I'd say double the prime magick would be more balanced
It needs to be a percentage of your magick, not a flat amount. At Heroic +4 Born Gain, the prime amount is literally 1. Once it's a percentage, then they can worry about the numbers.
@@meekumanu oh that seems like a great solution!
I like the idea of having the magick cost be fixed, but you can't use magick for a few seconds before you get the refill. Poms and rarity reduce the delay instead of the cost.
@@justasidequestnpc6396 it defeats purpose of her boon. the whole point of her boon is so that you don't need to wait for the mana. it is suppose to be designed for primary attack on sticks that regenerate no mana when your using spamming primary. I think they should maybe rework to be like you gain mana while channeling. Most of other weapons don't want to hold-channeling due to slow m/s so the mana regen has niche for sticks but it doesn't globally overshadow every other mana boon.
39:49 lol no shot. Assuming that scorch uses an unsigned 64 bit integer (unsigned since there's no negative scorch and 64 bit because the game is 64 bit) then the upper limit is 2^64 which is 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 😅
Even a signed (can be negative) 32 bit integer can go up to 2,147,483,647 so for this to be a problem it would have to be a 16 bit integer which would be ridiculous for a game like this
I mean it's easily doable if Chronos didn't die from the damage. As someone said, would take about 9 minutes of doubling to hit the 64-bit limit
You could probably get there with the freeze reset duo boon. I got to 6 digits on Cerberes without trying to intentionally reset and apply. I probably should’ve taken better advantage of having both duo boons 😂
The game is scripted in Lua which uses double precision floating numbers, going up to around 2^1024.
@@d07RiV yeah I just found out about that too, just makes my point stronger lol 😅
The only time when magic can really become an issue is when you take the oath that petmanently primes some per rarity
I also think that "increase the quality of your commons" is inly there for Hera's "increase your dmg if you don't have commons"
One of the most dangerous Vows in the game in my opinion, if you get unlucky with chamber rewards you could end up with no magick real fast.
that or you have heras legendary u become tanky af but if you arent careful you burn through mana so fast
@@bla0005551 I had a run focused on the torch omega attack that got hera's legendary and born gain. It felt great until i took a few too many hits from chronos and had to do all of phase 2 with the basic attack because the damage primed all of my magick.
As soon as your videos upload I click on them because you literally made me better at this game like you did with the first Hades. Love your videos, Dan.
This whole mechanic feels kinda pointless for now. When I started playing, I got super excited when I saw it and tried doing what you've done ( lower numbers ofc, I only got to like 15k) and then kinda realised ... ok now what?
Exactly. It would take several minutes for the slow burn. Even with the boon to consume the stacks you are getting at best 100% of the scorch damage, which is lower than poisseden which instantly deals the damage.
seems like doom spamming with the shield special in Hades I, kinda pointless unless you have a severe skill issue and just trying to win for the first time
It should deal damage faster the bigger the number gets. Means there's a point to the big numbers and makes sense thematically since bigger fires burn faster and hotter
90,000 scorch only means that you gotta wait 20 minutes for it to deal 90,000 damage
@@BartlebyScrivener-oz6mk it should burn for a percent of the total stacks or something with a min value. that way the dmg ramps but not instantly.
Scorch may be capped at 40/s, but damn do those fire specials look cool
For what it's worth, there's a Hestia's legendary...
@Haelian just here to see i love your videos and your guides even more may i ask for an early early estimation of boons / gods/ weapons (with aspects) guide?
died to chronos 3 times now and before i start investing hard on one of the aspects and before i try to manifest a build using keepsakes i think it would be great to have a guide like that to start investing in the right path.....p.s. i know it might change alot in the futurre but this feels like a good time to have a first tier list guides
people thumb this up if you agree !
People say scorch is bad right now, but remember, this is the first public build, things will change over time. And I bet scorch will get some time in the spotlight in the next update.
i hope so its a lot of fun to play at time, i really like no mana zeus builds that just strike everything and with legendary have a chance to insta kill hard to get going but fun
I think scorch is very good on aspect of Pan specifically. Dem + Pos Duos + infusion that adds based on flame 2 shots each chronos phase. I think the infusion is very strong but you have to hard roll for it and build around it, it’s definitely less viable at high fear than something like Zeus who can proc every attack for a billion damage with the pos or aphro duos because of double strike
Also in comparison to hades I, I would say Hestia is very similar to Dio. Dio wasn’t as strong or viable on the aspect of Zeus shield but was great on the aspect of Chiron bow. Aspect of Pan is basically Chiron Bow
I've always liked Demeter, even in Hades. :( Her dash was basically my default dash. Also Ice Wine and Scintillating Feast was my absolute favourite build. With Black Out, if possible.
I like the proper upbringing Infusion specifically for "Vow of Arrogance" Fear modifier (Prime for every rarity greater than common). You also don't need to run arcanas for higher rarity boons.
@9:50 yeah and now you can plug just about any controller in and it works i used to use my ps4 controller on pc till i got my xbox series x controller and i still use my switch pro controller for player 2 all the time
I'd like a boon where, if an enemy has more scorch on than remainig health, X effect happens. Maybe they move slower, hit for less damage, take more damage, or scorch ticks faster?
yeah if the scorch starting ticking twice as fast once their health bar was covered that would be huge
This seems like a doom run without getting mercifull end in Hades one xD
20:31 it’s “I am gonna claw (out your eyes then drown you to death)
I just remembered that Persephone is Hades niece, and now I don’t know what to think about the first game
Honestly I don't mind that magic is easy to use. I don't really like spending too much time thinking about managing it, the omega moves aren't (all) broken anyway and I just kinda wanna use them and not worry about it too much I dunno
This might be an Issue with the Interface.... Or maybe there's a imBalance with all the things that Use or Regenerate Magic. 🤔
the fact that you had all these scorch related boons and the base omega special still did three times as much damage as scorch is criminal
I think for born gain you could have your magic be capped at 100 (so max magic per encounter could be 550 (common) without the magic regen card), that way it'd still be really strong for builds that don't use a ton of magic while being fair to other boons in slot. The main issue is the cap really, because while +10 max magic is for all other boons just +10 max magic, for born gain it's like a +100 max magic at least
I struggle to make good use of the torches, but watching you melt enemies is satisfying.
i think they should add a secondary hestia boon that gives you a miniscule damage mult for every like, 100 stacks, since extinguisher is great, but does kinda make her slower posiedon by just turning scorch into a slower on hit effect. it would be cool if stacking scorch for the sake of high numbers was a thing.
maybe having the thing that removed unpicked blessings would actually be helpfull if you go full hestia?
Because you always want her Legend or Fire Extinguisher - but not both
I think that depends on how fast you're applying scorch. If you can get to 300 even with the legendary, you'd probably still benefit from extinguisher, at least on bosses. Even at 80 scorch dealt/removed per second, that's still 3.75 seconds for it to fully apply. You're probably not leaving most enemies completely alone for that long. So from there, what's your rate on extinguisher? I'd have to really math it, but a decent rule of thumb is probably: could you build up 300 scorch again in Extinguisher Rate * 3.75 seconds, if so you're definitely better off with Extinguisher if you already have the legendary.
I think the only time the Legendary isn't worth grabbing is maybe if you already have Extinguisher with a rate of over 100% and are taking a bit to proc it as is, but that's not very common. I say maybe because even if you're no longer able to actually proc Extinguisher, you might be able to maintain scorch constantly with the Legendary still, which could be an overall dps increase. Again, would have to math it.
had a run with the staff the other day, lvl 3 rare hestia special with the double special projectiles hammer and the demeter/hestia duo boon. Stacked over 100k scorch on cerberus, but I would have to sit there for literal 40 minutes for the game to tick all that damage. Afaik there is no way to increase the scorch DPS outside of that one boon where it makes the target explode after it reaches 300 fire dmg (I didn't get that in my run), and that's why I don't really like to build for Hestia. She's okay for the first 2 biomes but after that she's kinda useless imo.
There might be some duo boons that make scorch actually useful that I'm not aware, but generally speaking I think Hestia is kinda weak and hard to make a good build out of. Her sprint is goated tho
Hestia/Poseidon is really cool, it basically lets you stack a DoT like how you wish you could with scorch.
@@meekumanu so it's more in-line with how Hangover worked in hades 1?
@@Rosa_0000 I had a run with poseidon+hestia with sticks where i got that duo boon for DoT's. you honestly don't really need to apply so many burn stacks. I think hestia scorch is best applied on Hex. Just use Hex then use Poseidon duo boon. The weapon version really requires you to use fire extinquisher or get her legendary boon.
That Artemis theme is such a vibe!
It’s the hangover of this game
Id say its worse cause you cant increase it's dmg its always 40 per second
At least Dio was hot, funny enough Hestia isn't
@@skaivii1103 eh, I know some people of both genders who would give a lot to be with someone who looks like Hestia, not myself, but she certainly isn't ugly or bad looking.
@@drakula839 legendary hestia boon makes it tick 100% faster
@@kmo6485 but how often are you gonna end up getting it?
Honestly maybe I'm misremembering, I would need to take it again to be sure, but on the run where I took the 'move 70% slower while channeling' hammer, I kinda just... didn't notice it? Like it didn't feel any slower at all. The majority of my movement while channeling is already the dash, rather than the slow floating.
yeah that hammer is amazing, its a shame it's worded or explained so poorly. it's kinda triggering to see him skip it every time tho LMAO
i’ve only used it once, but i thought that Sustained Fire’s 70% speed reduction didn’t really matter since you mostly use dash to move around anyway
I kind of like dire candle. I get more mileage out of it than the regular omega attack on bosses like chronos that have a lot of shit to dash around.
i had an amazing scorch run going but i used a death defy right as chronos lost his first stage and was stuck in perma slow-mo just me for the second half and instantly died
Make a note to the devs! Let's make sure we get as many of these bugs and issues known to SuperGiant as possible! They are fixing things at a rapid rate
Scorch builds without fire extinguisher feel soooooo sad. It's crazy how much Fire Extinguisher boosts your damage, even with common rarity, let alone when you get epic/heroic and some poms.
Edit: apparently it was bugged before today? Either not doing damage at all, or doing less than it's supposed to? Maybe it was all in my head that I felt like my dps was better with it before the patch?
Thank you Fields of Mourning
It's kind of a shame that you can't effectively combine freezer burn and fire extinguisher. You can either have a way to inflict a lot of scorch or a way to use a lot of scorch, but not both.
the 70% slower one is bad unless you're using eos because you're dashing around so much to proc your projectiles. the 70% more or less strips your movement
12:39 *well*
I would love for them to add a speed run mode, but just call it Hermes' Mode
Scorch is a weird one. I feel like it should apply a bit more per hit or tick down a bit faster but I’m sure it’s just early access jitters I need to get used to
Wouldnt the demeter cast be really good cause it applies freeze a bunch of times or would it not stack
The 70% slower while channeling (hammer) might be instead of the 50% slower it normally is, or something, so it might not be as bad as it sounds. That said I haven't tried it either...
Not sure if people know, but if you take Hammer last, and hope that Echo is the next place, you can get another hammer. I had a run with 4 hammers, that was loads of fun.
yeah, i got lucky and rolled +300 power on Axe final attack, Your last attack deals double damage but costs 20 mana and you attack faster but cannot use omega. I had appolo's attack boon and was doing 1200 damage. Problem was that i didn't roll hermes "get 25% attackspeed when your hex is ready" or Hermes "attacks are 15-25% faster".
I used Hestia and Apollo for memes lol but getting it with Artemis arrows made it so chaotic
Its so funny to see haelian constantly skip SUStained fire lmao. That upgrade has a movespeed down for a reason. Combined with hermes it can give some absolutely biblical firerate for torches. It doesn't even matter that you move slower, cause you already move like shit channeling them
Fire torches look so bad ass though 🔥
The 70% slower hammer makes you move similar to the melee weapons... I cant get the torches goin anyway tho
there is a boon that blows up scorch stacks once they reach 300
Why does Hera appear so much more often than other boons in like all my runs too???
What does Family Trade do exactly? What are Sacrifice Boons?
When you get offered a boon to replace one of your current ones. For example, you have hephaestus sprint and you decide to switch it out for a Hermes sprint you found. Hera's sacrifice boon just makes it so that the next time you get offered a chance to replace one of your boons, the replacement will be a higher rarity than it would have been without the hera boon
is this game only Singleplayer? or is there a co-op mode?
Did he get a duo hat boon when do you unlock that?!
I have a question, how tf am I supposed to beat the coin purse mini boss in Tartarus? Like he’s tanky asf and will clap you if you get close. I’m lost
You hit it when it's coins are spilling out on floor
Tiny thing and only time it would have been much use, but he could have passed that Nem trial if he'd used the omega attack he took a hammer for lol
6:41 why do you skip the dialogue, to not spoil the audience?
how do you open up the codex (list of boons) with a controller?
And yes I have learned the incantation for it
The hat change omg 😂
A little FEAR, as a treat
this weapon is clearly not for speedrunning
scorch is clearly not for speedrunning*
You get duo from double god room I did yesterday
Bro I really think a run is either godlike or trash. They need to balance boons and especially hammer. Not nerf, but a wrong hammer can break your run unless you want to struggle with damage
Aye another video. Life is good.
you feeling better hal?
The Origin Helix hammer is just downright awful. If the special staggered it could be useful but as is it ruins the usefulness of the special completely
Might be an insane hot take but does anyone else kinda wish there were either more songs for the sirens or that there was like at least a majority instrumental tracks to lyrical songs? I feel like having to hear them every run over and over (especially when they're meant to be like a corny rock band) is getting tiresome at least for me
They’ll probably add some more as they roll out updates - their “coming next” page says they’re making more music as well as regions and characters so it’s entirely possible we get more Scylla songs
It's over 90,000!
What does scorch do?
I honestly hate scorch, whenever I see Hestia I just groan and hope for her magick regen boon and nothing else lmao
I love Glowing Coal, the ranged cast boons are a must for every run IMO and it does better damage than Zeus'. She's got a few other good boons unrelated to scorch but overall so much of her is loaded into scorch, so because scorch is weak she is weak.
Glowing coal and her sprint are only reason I use hestia. Everything else feels shitty even thr magic regen that's a lot of health lost after just a few health ups the loss feels huge and not worth it. 210 health instead of 300 for example, feels too big
I still Don't Understand what Scorch Actually Does 🤔
Great balls of fire 🔥
How do I get darkness?
What scorch do? I maen it burn but..
It makes things red and nice to look at.
It does damage over time, but it's pretty slow so it doesn't usually wind up dealing that much damage to enemies. It's very useful for applying a longish-lasting status effect, if you have the arcana card that makes you deal more damage against enemies with 2 or more status effects active.
Scorch is awful you stack it so high but the DPS is always the same and low. Bring back Dionisius style please.
Fire extinguisher
Algorithms
scorch sucks!
can you pls stop saying demeter like that? ...