We said in the video that Solemnity is a nonbo with the Overlord cycle, based on the wording of the explainer text, but the official rules are worded a little differently: "As long as this permanent has a time counter on it, if it was cast for its impending cost, it’s not a creature." This reveals that Solemnity DOES in fact work the way you'd like here and is, in fact, a combo! Sorry for the confusion.
@@alexanderhall9625because Solemnity only stops you from “putting counters on” stuff. The “Impending” text says “this card ETBs with time counters,” meaning it doesn’t make YOU put time counters on that creature (according to MTG rules)
@@kstephenson5857 hmm the card said nothing about preventing you from putting counters on stuff it just says they can't have counters put on em so wouldn't the casting of it technically put counters on it? I've never really dealt with this specifically so seems like even if it enters with it it's still got to be put on it to have it
Slight clarification, spells don't leave the stack until after they've resolved, so Peer Past the Veil won't count itself as being in the graveyard when it resolves.
Yes it would only count if it said “ as an additional cost to cast this spell “ discard your hand , then those card will hit the grave and could be counted
My Elenda, the Dusk Rose commander deck loves the Overlord of the Balemurk card i pulled from a play booster yesterday. :D Gives me the option, as opposed to the regular "from the graveyard to the battlefield" recursion cards, to just have Elenda, as my commander, suddenly in my hand like a regular spell. With 4 mana cost she's not the cheapest commander to get back on the field from a hand, but it's an additional tactical option that allows for unconventional use of a commander card being actually on my hand. Maybe there's even an effect or instant spell that lets me pull her from my hand in a way that she actually "witnesses" a board wipe and gets onto the battlefield as the only creature but with countless +1/+1 on her. (Braid's Frightful Return's second act kinda does the same as Overlord once, and brings any card from the graveyard back to your hand, so that's an option, too, if i built a combo around Elenda, the Dusk Rose being on my hand.) And Dollmaker's Shop // Porcelain Gallery is a given as a necessity in an Elenda, the Dusk Rose deck in my opinion.
Thank you guys for all your guyses inputs, knowledge of the game, and gameplay. It's helped me grow as a player and stay in this game, even if things come up that we don't necessarily like. 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
@13:35 Unfortunately, that is not fully correct. A spell/ability does not leave the stack until after all its effects have resolved. It won't see itself in the graveyard.
Both the green and red Overlords are gonna slot perfectly into my Bellow, Bard of the Brambles deck. Bellow animates them even if you pay the impending cost AND gives them haste so you can get the etb and attack on the same turn for much cheaper than their normal cost.
It depends on time stamps. You need to cast Bello after to overwrite the fact that they're enchantments and not creatures. Same deal as the Theros gods
I could be wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure they operate like the Theros gods do: if you play the Overlords and then play Bello, he’ll turn them into creatures. But if you play Bello and then the Overlords, they won’t become creatures because of the timestamp rulings.
@@olivegardenofficialtm8153 mmmm i think yall are right. I forgot about how the gods worked since I don't play any in the deck. I'm still definitely gonna include them but, I may need some notecards on hand to remind me and the rest of the table of how it all works lol
Can confirm they're^ right about the timestamps and whether bello enters before or after they become enchantments unfortunately. I wanted to set up really cool sac loops with them but according to layers they don't re-enter and become a creature again.
@@justwantawholename impending says the Overlord isnt a creature until the last counter is removed so would timestamps even matter if you cast it for impending?
I wasn't super excited for this set's aesthetic being so all over the place, but *mechanically* it's so good On the upside the cards I think most likely to see play are Red Leyline and Haunted Toys so we don't have to deal with some of the flavor fail outliers A bunch of the cards have the alternative spooky background monster in the art
With rooms, it’s good to note that enchantment animation effects, like Starfield of Nyx,, depend on their mana cost. So you can change how large it is on the board, but they can also suffer from being blinked since they come back with no unlocked rooms and become 0/0 creatures
i like hedge shredder in a manifest dread oriented deck cause you are putting the unchosen card into your graveyard from your library so you can get both cards onto the battlefield
So I play Mono Black and Dimir a lot. I'll be upgrading to Withering Torment easily. So much of my game plan revolves around graveyard recursion. And I just can't afford to not do anything if Rest in Peace shows up. That card gives me literal nightmares and seems to get slotted into ever freaking enchantress deck.
I am playing sultai and even then I am still considering withering torment. I just can't have enough instant speed flexible removal and for enchantments I like having 3 mana to kill a creature or enchantment instead of 4 to exile with tear asunder.
Mono Black you say? :D Might I suggest a fine addition of a little guy called Doomsay Excruciator? I added him to my deck to play if I know I'll be dead next turn, to speed the rest of the game up for everyone.
Think you are too low on overlords. The impending cost is a buy out if you don’t have a good way to use your mana that turn, and while 4 feels like a long time, it also ends up surviving board wipes, triggers up the beanstalk for cheap, can be blinked or cloned if they target enchantments etc. There’s a lot of hidden utility and I’ve found them pretty smooth in actual gameplay.
The card I love the most from this set is Screaming Nemesis. It does die to removal but that’s fine. Its a great political tool for 3 mana. It’s a fantastic blocker because if someone’s 8/8 hits into it, you can both redirect that damage at their face, or redirect it at the life gain player’s face and completely lock down that strategy. Could even ping it yourself for 1 and do it too.
Hmmm I think you guys are super wrong about Overlord of the Hauntwoods. That land token is insane and there have been lots of new “cares about tokens” effects that have been printed recently (caretaker’s talent etc)
As soon as I saw that preview card, I knew I wanted to play it, and even what to swap out for it. It's been performing great. The fact that it's an enchantment itself also makes a big difference: it triggers all enchantress effects, which sorcery ramp doesn't do.
@@killersithlords beza is a way bigger player in standard and it's like half the price and both are new mythics. most of its value is in commander players thinking it is good
Random thought relating to buying off card kingdom. I just ordered the cards for a urabrask commander deck. And between TCGplayer and card kingdom it was a 120$ difference! I love trying to support the channel as much as I can but I couldn’t merit 120 dollar difference. Even worse so that I was able to get my tcg order down to a single package. Which really made me question what is the purpose of card kingdom when I could get all my cards for cheaper and still 1 package.
I was surprised Screaming Nemesis wasn't in this video, 3 mana that's almost guaranteed to lead to at least 1 opponent not being able to gain life for the rest of the game is HUGE to me. Especially if you know someone is playing something that focuses entirely on Food or Lifelink, this will shut them down big time, and is very easy to use for diplomacy. No one wants to be unable to gain life for the rest of the game, so saying something like "Whoever agrees to block my nemesis, I will not use the effect on YOU" is an instant way to maybe get someone to agree to remove a creature that'll be blocking or something else.
Meathook Massacre II does some fun stuff in my Etrata, Deadly Fugitive deck. I can attack with an opponents card I cloaked and if it hits, great, if they block and kill it I can pay 3 life to bring it back flipped face up with a finality counter
I immediately put Hedge Shredder in my Yuma, Proud Protector (R/G/W Deserts) deck. It does a lot there because I leaned more into Self Mill as my deck’s main engine. Turning all that Self Mill into extra Ramp/Landfall in the mid to late game (especially if I’ve already got Yuma out) is so good because of all the high cost spells it wants to play to close out the game (like Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus for example and something that gives my whole board Trample).
54:30 Note the careful wording on "Dollmaker's shop" that makes it not busted. it says "whenever one OR more". in the old days it would just say when ever a creature attacks, do this. they have stopped making cards this way completely.
Yes they nerfed cards like naajela awhile ago by adding "one or more" but the upside that doesn't completely kill it is they add "a player" so with 3 opponents you can swing 6creatures at the main threat and send only 1creature at the other 2 so that you get three toy tokens on total.This wording is what makes Professional Facebreaker and Grim Hireling Sooo good 👍
What do you guys think of Insidious Fungus? It can act as semi ramp, card draw or artifact/enchantment removal. It only costs 1 measly mana, great with recursion or sacrifice matters synergies. It can block and then sac itself. It might honestly be better than Reclamation Sage.
re formless genesis: it's an all star in decks that let you cast certain creature types from your graveyard. I play it and Nameless Inversion in my Zask, Skittering Swarmlord deck as Insect spells!
Thanks Josh for your two videos and being a reasonable voice of discent for those of us who were hurt by the desicions of WOTC (who knew of tbe probability of the bans as they were selling Commander Masters and Lost Cavern Of Ixalan) and the RC (who chose not to let the market know what it had communicated with WOTC within a similar timeframe). A lot of these issues could have been avoided if they had followed the transparency and feedback practices of FASB and their predecessors who grappled through these issues decades ago.
Surprised that you did not mention untimely malfunction. Seems like a card which is an auto include in red Decks. Evasion, protection and removal on one card for 2 Mana.
Surprised that Abhorrent Oculus didn't get a mention! The thing Manifests Dread 3 times per turn cycle! Yes, it's a little restricted to self-mill strategies, but it fuels the graveyard very quickly after you've "delved" it into play. And that's without the reanimator angle you can have with this thing.
Absolutely agree with Rachel a card that I can bin any amount of Goyf permanents from my hand to etb plus draw extra cards and at instant speed! It's so good!
Unwanted Remake can be useful in certain situations. In a Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, it's a great add, especially if you run graveyard hate. You're destroying a card, then they basically mill 2 cards because whatever they bring as a flipped 2/2 receives -2/-2 from Elesh Norn and thus dies as well.
Metamorphosis Fanatic is great because it works as both a reanimation spell and target. Was doing some online goldfishing with it in a Dimir reanimater list, was gonna cast an Animate Dead on an Archon of Cruelty I had milled, but then realized I had also milled an MF. Decided to reanimate him and use his ability to grab Archon, giving Archon lifelink and an extra three power on board.
I'm most excited to use the green and white Enduring cards for their combo potential with Starfield of Nyx and any sac outlet. There are enchantment sac outlets like Martyr's Cause, Greater Good, Food Chain which are already easy to search and good with things like Siona tokens.
I'm new here so maybe I'm missing it, but it would be really nice to have an archidekt list of the cards you talk about in these sorts of videos. I tend to listen to these while I drive so that would make it easier later to go back and look at the specific cards.
Hedge shredder also counts with manifest dread. If the card you put in the graveyard from manifest dread or surveil is a land it triggers hedge shredder
Correct me if I'm wrong. Waltz of rage specifying "Until end of turn, whenever a creature dies..." as a seperate sentence, means it can used in niche aristocrat shells to impulse draw and fuel win. Pretty narrow synergy but cool.
Yes, that effect persists until end of turn. It's not only if they die to Waltz of Rage. The creatures don't even have to be on the board when you cast it for that effect to apply.
Wild take on Withering Torment. I see it as an amazing upgrade in black to change another removal into a second way to hit enchantments. Also amazed you would run chaos warp over it.
The mana value of Room cards is noteworthy in a Zur, Eternal Schemer deck, where Zur can animate much stronger enhancement for split costs (pay 3 for Mirror Room, on a later turn you pay 7 for Fractured Realm, and that gives you access to a 10/10). Also Mirror Room is likely better than Glasspool Mimic for 2U as being an enchantment that creates a token, if you can blink it (the enchantment), you can end up with multiple tokens. Meanwhile Glasspool Mimic would just change its target.
5:30 I still don't understand where "kindred" being a card type comes from. Isn't it a supertype, like Legendary or Snow? Afaik, there are no cards in MTG that just have the type "kindred," because there's basically no rules associated with it.
Kindred exists because it's a way to put Creature types on Non-creature permanents. Normally an Enchantment, for example, can't have a creature type - but Kindred can. So you can have a Kindred Enchantment - Faerie.
@@hadrianj I understand that, but that should just makes it a supertype. There are no timing rules for Kindred cards, there are no cards that even mention them as (like for tutoring or other effects). It's a type that currently can't exist on its own and just modifies other types. It seems incredibly arbitrary to call it a type, when it functions exactly like a supertype
It's a card type because only card types determine which subtypes a card can have. An Enchantment can't have creature types, but the Kindred card type can, therefor a Kindred Enchantment can have both Enchantment subtypes and Kindred subtypes, which are the creature types.
Had some fun with Reluctant Role Model in a satya deck since the copy comes in tapped and attacking, the original can build itself up and you can create copies to build up satya
((Commenting for the engagement!)) I probably like Unwanted Remake more than I am supposed to. Partly because I had to do some fast mental gymnastics to adjust to the fact that my pool gave me so many. It's def not the best 0-1 mana removal but is right after that on the power level imo.
I think a better way to look at the Overlords is as modal spells. You can either get powerful creature or get an overcosted effect that's pretty useful when you really need it.
for me, it was "28 Turns Later" lol considering the speed at which my usual crew plays their turns it would chronologically be the sequel after ""28 Weeks Later" ( x __ x )
I'm loving Overlord of the Hauntwoods in my Hazel deck. It can come in on 3 if you need the ramp, or 4 if you ramped into Hazel already. Also, it's not legendary, so if you manage to Nexus of Becoming the hauntwoods, you end up with all of the mana, lol.
I think Unwanted Remake is powerful but only in self mill decks, decks that want things in the Graveyard, face down deck or a Aristocrat type deck e.g. turn 1 play Stitcher's Supplier (a 1 black mana creature when it enters or dies mill 3 cards), turn 2 play Unwanted Remake to destroy your own Stitcher's Supplier to mill another 3 cards & replace it with a 2/2 from your deck (and mill 1). For 2 mana you've put 8 cards in your Graveyard & have replaced the Stitcher with a 2/2 to cast later.
The green, white, and black overlords are actually very playable in standard for their impending cost. They’re much better when you can play up to 4 copies (and you only have one opponent).
I mean this a commander specific video and the difference is huge when you have to wait for 3 other players to do stuff before 1 turn rotation. But they could be really good in blink decks which they didnt really mention.
Note for the Kaito planeswalker: It doesn't have the usual Gideon text of preventing damage while it's a creature. Beware your opponents' chump blockers.
On another Channel in a Stream someone mentioned the "Bad Combo that actually works" of donating your Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider to one opponent while having Nine Lives on your side never losing any life and never the game as Vorinclex makes you putting 0 counters on Nine Lives instead of one. Maybe something like that for the Meathook Massacre II. Then any creature returning to your side don't get any Finality Counters and can come back anyoften as you want. Or play cards that remove those counters (I play them in my Ygra Deck where I included that Squirrel that brings back creatures with Finality counters.
Overlord of the Hauntwoods might work in a deck with counter removal pretty well. I'm thinking a Tom Bombadil deck with Goldberry and Hex Parasite type cards. Extra synergy for all the enchantress effects too since it's also an enchantment.
Malakir Rebirth returns it under its owner's control, which is going to be your opponent (assuming you destroyed an opponent's creature). Kaya's Ghostform returns it under your control, not its owner's control, so it would return under your control after it's sacrificed at the end of turn.
Unholy Annex // Ritual Chamber is my new favorite addition to Clavileño, First of the Blessed! Clavileño turns your vampires into vampire demons when you attack with them. Then, should the vampire demons die, they create bigger vampire demons with flying that still trigger the annex to drain your opponents
i put Abhorrent Oculus in my Vannifar, Evolved Enigma deck, and holy CRAP that thing is busted!! Getting to manifest dread on each opponent upkeep is hella sick in commander, and having the ability to blink or turn something nasty face up at any time feels so so good.
Surprised no mention of Lord Windgrace with formless genesis , kitty wants to play a bunch of lands already and pitch lands to fill grave get some thick creatures to help protect your planeswalker commander and close out games and windgrace just has a generic discard a card up-tic so could play for delierum etc. seems like a great include.
Split up gets a +1 for excellent art, but I'm also liking Sadistic Shell Game. It's expensive and not a board wipe, but it forces everyone to participate in the process which reduces my culpability for playing it in the first place. I've only gotten to play it once in a game so far, but it killed the 3 largest targets (one opponent was already dead). The other card that I love from this set is Seance Board. It did some serious work in my Vren the Relentless deck this week when I tapped it for 6.
There is a great way to abuse the land token from overlord of the hauntwood in my ghired, mirror of the wilds deck. He gives all my creatures the ability to tap to create a token that’s a copy of a token that entered this turn. I had 8 everywhere land tokens by the end of the game the other day. It’s also great in my adrix and nev deck that doubles tokens and my yarok the desecrated deck that doubles etb triggers
Rachel and Josh, there is a way to abuse overlords using Yenna Redtooth regent. Haunted woods, for instance you cast it for 3 get a land then use yenna to copy the enchantment it comes in as a 6/5 creaure and you get a 6/5 on the battlefield and two lands of ramp for 5 manna yes please. Also the white one gives you 4 flyers and a 6/5. With potential for another one to come out in the next four turns.. not to mention if you lose it then you can copy it with Yenna again. Mixed with this with doubling season copied and you our in abuse town. Yenna is my signature deck. So much fun with enchantmentse
The green overlord isn't that slow when played with Bello as a Commander 😍 for 3 you have a 5 mana enchantment that can attack the same turn it has arrived. So the value of this card in it is extremely high. Even with token decks like Chatterfang, you'll create a nice Squirrel from that land. Playing this overlord in a 5C deck also makes sense if you can cheat spells like Scio of Draco for only 2 manas or profit from the domain mechanic. Nice video as always, so good to watch your content!
Would love to see the decklist for your Disa the restless! My janky Bhaal, lord of murder deck loves Come back wrong. I can get two goad triggers from Bhaal if I destroy one of my own creatures, or borrow someone else's if I target theirs and get one goad trigger when it gets sacrificed.
City of death or three blind mice could work nicely with the everywhere token from the overlord of the hauntwoods. I may put him in my Yenna, Redtooth Regent enchantress deck.
In a Mahadi deck, the Meathook Massacre II is COMPLETELY NUTS. Mahadi is nudging you toward Force Sacc with stuff like Plaguecrafter, Dictate Of Erebos and token generation like Skittering Witch and altars. Mahadi typically makes 4 treasures per turn by casting a Plaguecrafter. that means you are positive for next turn. Casting a Meathook II for 10mana is so easy XD
standard is way different than commander though. Not saying that cant be good in the right deck (pretty much every card can be). but in commander you have to wait for a whole 3 players to get an impending counter off. That goes by alot faster in standard. i do think the black and white ones are really good though.
@@dericplummer9272 it's definitely different. My point was just that they play better than they read. The black one for sure as a mill four and grab a creature out of the yard can be great. And yes white is the color of blink, and white overlord is probably auto include. Just so much value
glissa sunslayer remove up to 3 counter from target permanent. That with impending doom maybe. I have her in my self mill deck to remove finality counters from what ever I bring back.
Cool to see someone talking about Nowhere to Run. I love ward hate and flash on it is 🤌 wonderful. Sporogenic Infection is another piece of removal from the set I love in commander. Makes any damage a kill on what its placed on, but more interestingly it targets a player to sac a creature other than the enchanted creature, two for one removal for two mana, potentially ignoring protection if an opponent only has two creatures and one has hexproof/ward, or target another player with just one large threat and edict it. Great card
If you're going to mention Mirage Mirror and rooms, it would be remiss not to consider the funny interaction they have. The comprehensive rules say that "left half unlocked" and "right half unlocked" are designations a permanent can have (709.5c). Any permanent. This means that, if you copy a room card with Mirage Mirror and unlock its halves, these designations are retained: if you unlock the right half, Mirage Mirror has a "right half unlocked" designation forever. So when you next copy a room, _any_ room, it will have its right half unlocked. This can let you cheat some mana in funny ways.
Overlord of the Hauntwoods is great!! It would be an awesome addition to a Roon deck. * Would have been a great moment for Josh to say Roon in an Irish accent.
We said in the video that Solemnity is a nonbo with the Overlord cycle, based on the wording of the explainer text, but the official rules are worded a little differently: "As long as this permanent has a time counter on it, if it was cast for its impending cost, it’s not a creature." This reveals that Solemnity DOES in fact work the way you'd like here and is, in fact, a combo!
Sorry for the confusion.
wouldn't solemnity work regardless whether it said that or not due to being an enchantment anyways?
@@alexanderhall9625because Solemnity only stops you from “putting counters on” stuff. The “Impending” text says “this card ETBs with time counters,” meaning it doesn’t make YOU put time counters on that creature (according to MTG rules)
@@kstephenson5857 hmm the card said nothing about preventing you from putting counters on stuff it just says they can't have counters put on em so wouldn't the casting of it technically put counters on it? I've never really dealt with this specifically so seems like even if it enters with it it's still got to be put on it to have it
@@alexanderhall9625 no, it has counters on it already, they are never put on.
@@Gegota82 so hydras and such also get around this weird
Slight clarification, spells don't leave the stack until after they've resolved, so Peer Past the Veil won't count itself as being in the graveyard when it resolves.
Yes it would only count if it said “ as an additional cost to cast this spell “ discard your hand , then those card will hit the grave and could be counted
That's not a slight clarification. That's an ACKTUALLY.
Wear that with pride.
What do you think about this set? Are you excited about it? What new cards slot in perfectly to your existing commander decks?
apart from like 3 cards, this is the 4th set in a row that was a miss for me.
Jolly balloon man in my Satya deck
Zimone Manifest Dread deck time
@@christopherrue1773 Well damn, stealing your idea now!
My Elenda, the Dusk Rose commander deck loves the Overlord of the Balemurk card i pulled from a play booster yesterday. :D Gives me the option, as opposed to the regular "from the graveyard to the battlefield" recursion cards, to just have Elenda, as my commander, suddenly in my hand like a regular spell. With 4 mana cost she's not the cheapest commander to get back on the field from a hand, but it's an additional tactical option that allows for unconventional use of a commander card being actually on my hand. Maybe there's even an effect or instant spell that lets me pull her from my hand in a way that she actually "witnesses" a board wipe and gets onto the battlefield as the only creature but with countless +1/+1 on her. (Braid's Frightful Return's second act kinda does the same as Overlord once, and brings any card from the graveyard back to your hand, so that's an option, too, if i built a combo around Elenda, the Dusk Rose being on my hand.) And Dollmaker's Shop // Porcelain Gallery is a given as a necessity in an Elenda, the Dusk Rose deck in my opinion.
Thanks for putting the tutorial at the start, its a huge help to either understand or find ways to describe the mechanics to other new people.
Thank you guys for all your guyses inputs, knowledge of the game, and gameplay. It's helped me grow as a player and stay in this game, even if things come up that we don't necessarily like. 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
On Hedge Shredder, one thing to remember is that Manifest Dread is also putting lands from your library into the graveyard. Surveil is great too.
Dredge
@@ryvel9051 Life From the Loam is also very spicy with it, yup.
I really hope they decide to make a full 20 set of the verge lands ngl
That would be awesome
Theres actually 40 lands in the set (whatever color it taps for unconditionally can be thr inverse)
Wizards loves cycles & wants money. It will happen.
@@patches.742its 20 I think. 10 pairs plus the inverse another 10? Or am i wrong??
@@andrewvelazquez8798 you’re right i hadnt had my coffee when i made that comment
@13:35 Unfortunately, that is not fully correct. A spell/ability does not leave the stack until after all its effects have resolved. It won't see itself in the graveyard.
Both the green and red Overlords are gonna slot perfectly into my Bellow, Bard of the Brambles deck. Bellow animates them even if you pay the impending cost AND gives them haste so you can get the etb and attack on the same turn for much cheaper than their normal cost.
It depends on time stamps. You need to cast Bello after to overwrite the fact that they're enchantments and not creatures. Same deal as the Theros gods
I could be wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure they operate like the Theros gods do: if you play the Overlords and then play Bello, he’ll turn them into creatures. But if you play Bello and then the Overlords, they won’t become creatures because of the timestamp rulings.
@@olivegardenofficialtm8153 mmmm i think yall are right. I forgot about how the gods worked since I don't play any in the deck. I'm still definitely gonna include them but, I may need some notecards on hand to remind me and the rest of the table of how it all works lol
Can confirm they're^ right about the timestamps and whether bello enters before or after they become enchantments unfortunately. I wanted to set up really cool sac loops with them but according to layers they don't re-enter and become a creature again.
@@justwantawholename impending says the Overlord isnt a creature until the last counter is removed so would timestamps even matter if you cast it for impending?
I wasn't super excited for this set's aesthetic being so all over the place, but *mechanically* it's so good
On the upside the cards I think most likely to see play are Red Leyline and Haunted Toys so we don't have to deal with some of the flavor fail outliers
A bunch of the cards have the alternative spooky background monster in the art
35:42 Overlord of the Hauntwoods is incredible in Henzie decks. It'll blitz on 4 and ramp you two lands right away!
With rooms, it’s good to note that enchantment animation effects, like Starfield of Nyx,, depend on their mana cost. So you can change how large it is on the board, but they can also suffer from being blinked since they come back with no unlocked rooms and become 0/0 creatures
Yep, in general, a room with both sides unlocked is a 0 mana value nameless colorless permanent.
i like hedge shredder in a manifest dread oriented deck cause you are putting the unchosen card into your graveyard from your library so you can get both cards onto the battlefield
Yep, it’s really good with Manifest Dread. Surveil too
So I play Mono Black and Dimir a lot. I'll be upgrading to Withering Torment easily. So much of my game plan revolves around graveyard recursion. And I just can't afford to not do anything if Rest in Peace shows up. That card gives me literal nightmares and seems to get slotted into ever freaking enchantress deck.
I am playing sultai and even then I am still considering withering torment. I just can't have enough instant speed flexible removal and for enchantments I like having 3 mana to kill a creature or enchantment instead of 4 to exile with tear asunder.
Mono Black you say? :D Might I suggest a fine addition of a little guy called Doomsay Excruciator?
I added him to my deck to play if I know I'll be dead next turn, to speed the rest of the game up for everyone.
Think you are too low on overlords. The impending cost is a buy out if you don’t have a good way to use your mana that turn, and while 4 feels like a long time, it also ends up surviving board wipes, triggers up the beanstalk for cheap, can be blinked or cloned if they target enchantments etc. There’s a lot of hidden utility and I’ve found them pretty smooth in actual gameplay.
The card I love the most from this set is Screaming Nemesis. It does die to removal but that’s fine. Its a great political tool for 3 mana. It’s a fantastic blocker because if someone’s 8/8 hits into it, you can both redirect that damage at their face, or redirect it at the life gain player’s face and completely lock down that strategy. Could even ping it yourself for 1 and do it too.
Hmmm I think you guys are super wrong about Overlord of the Hauntwoods. That land token is insane and there have been lots of new “cares about tokens” effects that have been printed recently (caretaker’s talent etc)
@@MirrorAshes it’s also free landfall without the need to go search it up, which can be an issue with landfall when you run out
As soon as I saw that preview card, I knew I wanted to play it, and even what to swap out for it. It's been performing great. The fact that it's an enchantment itself also makes a big difference: it triggers all enchantress effects, which sorcery ramp doesn't do.
Given that it is $25ish atm I think it’s definitely a bit overrated for what’s at the end of the day 3 mana green ramp
@@lesternomo6578 It being used in Standard a lot which is getting traction in paper again.
@@killersithlords beza is a way bigger player in standard and it's like half the price and both are new mythics. most of its value is in commander players thinking it is good
I'm still new to magic but I'm really enjoying mana blue
Random thought relating to buying off card kingdom. I just ordered the cards for a urabrask commander deck. And between TCGplayer and card kingdom it was a 120$ difference! I love trying to support the channel as much as I can but I couldn’t merit 120 dollar difference. Even worse so that I was able to get my tcg order down to a single package. Which really made me question what is the purpose of card kingdom when I could get all my cards for cheaper and still 1 package.
100% TCG is so much cheaper
I was surprised Screaming Nemesis wasn't in this video, 3 mana that's almost guaranteed to lead to at least 1 opponent not being able to gain life for the rest of the game is HUGE to me.
Especially if you know someone is playing something that focuses entirely on Food or Lifelink, this will shut them down big time, and is very easy to use for diplomacy.
No one wants to be unable to gain life for the rest of the game, so saying something like "Whoever agrees to block my nemesis, I will not use the effect on YOU" is an instant way to maybe get someone to agree to remove a creature that'll be blocking or something else.
Meathook Massacre II does some fun stuff in my Etrata, Deadly Fugitive deck. I can attack with an opponents card I cloaked and if it hits, great, if they block and kill it I can pay 3 life to bring it back flipped face up with a finality counter
I immediately put Hedge Shredder in my Yuma, Proud Protector (R/G/W Deserts) deck. It does a lot there because I leaned more into Self Mill as my deck’s main engine. Turning all that Self Mill into extra Ramp/Landfall in the mid to late game (especially if I’ve already got Yuma out) is so good because of all the high cost spells it wants to play to close out the game (like Zopandrel, Hunger Dominus for example and something that gives my whole board Trample).
54:30 Note the careful wording on "Dollmaker's shop" that makes it not busted. it says "whenever one OR more". in the old days it would just say when ever a creature attacks, do this. they have stopped making cards this way completely.
Yes they nerfed cards like naajela awhile ago by adding "one or more" but the upside that doesn't completely kill it is they add "a player" so with 3 opponents you can swing 6creatures at the main threat and send only 1creature at the other 2 so that you get three toy tokens on total.This wording is what makes Professional Facebreaker and Grim Hireling Sooo good 👍
WE LOVE U JOSH, RACHEL, AND THE WHOLE COMMAND ZONE
Thank you making this episode! I don’t watch many of you videos but I never miss one of these.
Glad you like them!
Shoutout to my boy Razorkin Needlehead who really should have been a legendary but I digress.
33:05 GHIREDDDDDDDDDDDD my mirror boy enjoys this everywhere land very much thank you
also new racoon commander would make this a 4/4 with haste right? then you would be able to etb for 3 mana and attack and get the effect again?
and the backup commander for it would give it cascade off the 5 mana when you cast it for 3
@@bongconnery Only if you play your commander after playing this.
What do you guys think of Insidious Fungus? It can act as semi ramp, card draw or artifact/enchantment removal. It only costs 1 measly mana, great with recursion or sacrifice matters synergies. It can block and then sac itself. It might honestly be better than Reclamation Sage.
Big fan of Insidious Fungus! Not much to say about it other than: it's a Caustic Caterpillar with additional upside. Seems good!
Including it in my Landfall/Manifest deck for the flexibility of its uses. Do I need the ramp? Or do I need removal. Very good for me
I've found that Hazel of the rootbloom absolutely LOVES overlord of the hauntwoods, its become a premier piece of ramp for me in that deck
re formless genesis: it's an all star in decks that let you cast certain creature types from your graveyard. I play it and Nameless Inversion in my Zask, Skittering Swarmlord deck as Insect spells!
Hello, Impending is VERY good when you have a Wrath effect.
Indeed it is!
Thanks Josh for your two videos and being a reasonable voice of discent for those of us who were hurt by the desicions of WOTC (who knew of tbe probability of the bans as they were selling Commander Masters and Lost Cavern Of Ixalan) and the RC (who chose not to let the market know what it had communicated with WOTC within a similar timeframe). A lot of these issues could have been avoided if they had followed the transparency and feedback practices of FASB and their predecessors who grappled through these issues decades ago.
Surprised that you did not mention untimely malfunction. Seems like a card which is an auto include in red Decks. Evasion, protection and removal on one card for 2 Mana.
Surprised that Abhorrent Oculus didn't get a mention! The thing Manifests Dread 3 times per turn cycle! Yes, it's a little restricted to self-mill strategies, but it fuels the graveyard very quickly after you've "delved" it into play. And that's without the reanimator angle you can have with this thing.
Absolutely agree with Rachel a card that I can bin any amount of Goyf permanents from my hand to etb plus draw extra cards and at instant speed! It's so good!
Ancient cellarspawn is EXCELLENT in a Be'Lakor deck for redundancy on his second block of text
This is GOLD! Thanks Josh and Rachel!
Unwanted Remake can be useful in certain situations. In a Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, it's a great add, especially if you run graveyard hate. You're destroying a card, then they basically mill 2 cards because whatever they bring as a flipped 2/2 receives -2/-2 from Elesh Norn and thus dies as well.
Metamorphosis Fanatic is great because it works as both a reanimation spell and target. Was doing some online goldfishing with it in a Dimir reanimater list, was gonna cast an Animate Dead on an Archon of Cruelty I had milled, but then realized I had also milled an MF. Decided to reanimate him and use his ability to grab Archon, giving Archon lifelink and an extra three power on board.
That sounds awesome!
I'm most excited to use the green and white Enduring cards for their combo potential with Starfield of Nyx and any sac outlet. There are enchantment sac outlets like Martyr's Cause, Greater Good, Food Chain which are already easy to search and good with things like Siona tokens.
I'm new here so maybe I'm missing it, but it would be really nice to have an archidekt list of the cards you talk about in these sorts of videos. I tend to listen to these while I drive so that would make it easier later to go back and look at the specific cards.
Hedge shredder also counts with manifest dread. If the card you put in the graveyard from manifest dread or surveil is a land it triggers hedge shredder
Correct me if I'm wrong. Waltz of rage specifying "Until end of turn, whenever a creature dies..." as a seperate sentence, means it can used in niche aristocrat shells to impulse draw and fuel win. Pretty narrow synergy but cool.
Yes, that effect persists until end of turn. It's not only if they die to Waltz of Rage. The creatures don't even have to be on the board when you cast it for that effect to apply.
That's true!
I love these videos! I always learn so much about the new set mechanics
Glad you like them!
I am building a Zimone, Mystery Unraveler deck and Hedge Shredder fits in perfectly!
Wild take on Withering Torment. I see it as an amazing upgrade in black to change another removal into a second way to hit enchantments. Also amazed you would run chaos warp over it.
The mana value of Room cards is noteworthy in a Zur, Eternal Schemer deck, where Zur can animate much stronger enhancement for split costs (pay 3 for Mirror Room, on a later turn you pay 7 for Fractured Realm, and that gives you access to a 10/10).
Also Mirror Room is likely better than Glasspool Mimic for 2U as being an enchantment that creates a token, if you can blink it (the enchantment), you can end up with multiple tokens. Meanwhile Glasspool Mimic would just change its target.
5:30 I still don't understand where "kindred" being a card type comes from. Isn't it a supertype, like Legendary or Snow?
Afaik, there are no cards in MTG that just have the type "kindred," because there's basically no rules associated with it.
Kindred is the new tribal and as I built rendmaw as a deck is how I learned the legality of it as a second type for some cards
Kindred exists because it's a way to put Creature types on Non-creature permanents. Normally an Enchantment, for example, can't have a creature type - but Kindred can. So you can have a Kindred Enchantment - Faerie.
@@hadrianj I understand that, but that should just makes it a supertype.
There are no timing rules for Kindred cards, there are no cards that even mention them as (like for tutoring or other effects).
It's a type that currently can't exist on its own and just modifies other types.
It seems incredibly arbitrary to call it a type, when it functions exactly like a supertype
@@eXJonSnowbasically it’s a type because WoTC says so
It's a card type because only card types determine which subtypes a card can have. An Enchantment can't have creature types, but the Kindred card type can, therefor a Kindred Enchantment can have both Enchantment subtypes and Kindred subtypes, which are the creature types.
Had some fun with Reluctant Role Model in a satya deck since the copy comes in tapped and attacking, the original can build itself up and you can create copies to build up satya
Unwanted remake can be used your own creature to do the manifest dread if that's the kind of deck you're running.
I put Split Up in my Rhoda/Timin deck. It is such a one sided wipe.
((Commenting for the engagement!))
I probably like Unwanted Remake more than I am supposed to. Partly because I had to do some fast mental gymnastics to adjust to the fact that my pool gave me so many. It's def not the best 0-1 mana removal but is right after that on the power level imo.
I think a better way to look at the Overlords is as modal spells. You can either get powerful creature or get an overcosted effect that's pretty useful when you really need it.
Aww, the rosewaters baby movie reference was gold 😄
for me, it was "28 Turns Later" lol
considering the speed at which my usual crew plays their turns it would chronologically be the sequel after ""28 Weeks Later" ( x __ x )
Cycling warms my heart towards delirium.
My ghen deck loves the inpending because i get cheap enchantment then i can sac it and return it later as a creature without needing the counters
I'm loving Overlord of the Hauntwoods in my Hazel deck. It can come in on 3 if you need the ramp, or 4 if you ramped into Hazel already. Also, it's not legendary, so if you manage to Nexus of Becoming the hauntwoods, you end up with all of the mana, lol.
I think Unwanted Remake is powerful but only in self mill decks, decks that want things in the Graveyard, face down deck or a Aristocrat type deck e.g. turn 1 play Stitcher's Supplier (a 1 black mana creature when it enters or dies mill 3 cards), turn 2 play Unwanted Remake to destroy your own Stitcher's Supplier to mill another 3 cards & replace it with a 2/2 from your deck (and mill 1). For 2 mana you've put 8 cards in your Graveyard & have replaced the Stitcher with a 2/2 to cast later.
The green, white, and black overlords are actually very playable in standard for their impending cost. They’re much better when you can play up to 4 copies (and you only have one opponent).
I mean this a commander specific video and the difference is huge when you have to wait for 3 other players to do stuff before 1 turn rotation. But they could be really good in blink decks which they didnt really mention.
@@dericplummer9272clones and blink effects make them creatures immediately
Note for the Kaito planeswalker: It doesn't have the usual Gideon text of preventing damage while it's a creature. Beware your opponents' chump blockers.
Overlord of the Hauntwood puts in WORK in my Anikthea Populate deck. I got 3-4 of these zombies swinging and just making me way ahead of everyone else
On another Channel in a Stream someone mentioned the "Bad Combo that actually works" of donating your Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider to one opponent while having Nine Lives on your side never losing any life and never the game as Vorinclex makes you putting 0 counters on Nine Lives instead of one. Maybe something like that for the Meathook Massacre II. Then any creature returning to your side don't get any Finality Counters and can come back anyoften as you want. Or play cards that remove those counters (I play them in my Ygra Deck where I included that Squirrel that brings back creatures with Finality counters.
Overlord of the Hauntwoods might work in a deck with counter removal pretty well. I'm thinking a Tom Bombadil deck with Goldberry and Hex Parasite type cards. Extra synergy for all the enchantress effects too since it's also an enchantment.
Ancient cellspawn is going to do WORK in my prismatic bridge deck. The whole thing is filled with casting for free stuff.
I like the equipment version of mm2. Nazgül battle-axe. If you cast cataclysm, you'd get all permanents they didn't pay for with life.
The white room is really busted. My Caesar Deck are vervy happy about this
You could use unwanted remake, to get rid of a manifested creature that's maybe a land, or sorcery card, and get a different creature.
I like the green overlord for my sythis deck. I’m going to try it over a cultivate I was running and see how it performs.
@52:10 why doesnt malakir rebith work when kayas ghost form work ?
Malakir Rebirth returns it under its owner's control, which is going to be your opponent (assuming you destroyed an opponent's creature). Kaya's Ghostform returns it under your control, not its owner's control, so it would return under your control after it's sacrificed at the end of turn.
@Natedogg2 ah thanks I thought they meant it doesn't work with the end step sac trigger
Rooms in a Rex Nebula deck are wild.
Turn a room into a 10/10 vehicle
Unholy Annex // Ritual Chamber is my new favorite addition to Clavileño, First of the Blessed! Clavileño turns your vampires into vampire demons when you attack with them. Then, should the vampire demons die, they create bigger vampire demons with flying that still trigger the annex to drain your opponents
Another great show, huge fan!
Often, I get the verge lands hit as OG duals. Fantastic lands one of the best.
i put Abhorrent Oculus in my Vannifar, Evolved Enigma deck, and holy CRAP that thing is busted!! Getting to manifest dread on each opponent upkeep is hella sick in commander, and having the ability to blink or turn something nasty face up at any time feels so so good.
This seems awesome!
Surprised no mention of Lord Windgrace with formless genesis , kitty wants to play a bunch of lands already and pitch lands to fill grave get some thick creatures to help protect your planeswalker commander and close out games and windgrace just has a generic discard a card up-tic so could play for delierum etc. seems like a great include.
Just wanna say that overlord of the haunt goes great in Bello. Cheap early ramp
Split up gets a +1 for excellent art, but I'm also liking Sadistic Shell Game. It's expensive and not a board wipe, but it forces everyone to participate in the process which reduces my culpability for playing it in the first place. I've only gotten to play it once in a game so far, but it killed the 3 largest targets (one opponent was already dead). The other card that I love from this set is Seance Board. It did some serious work in my Vren the Relentless deck this week when I tapped it for 6.
There is a great way to abuse the land token from overlord of the hauntwood in my ghired, mirror of the wilds deck. He gives all my creatures the ability to tap to create a token that’s a copy of a token that entered this turn. I had 8 everywhere land tokens by the end of the game the other day. It’s also great in my adrix and nev deck that doubles tokens and my yarok the desecrated deck that doubles etb triggers
I always enjoy watching your vids.. your topics are always interesting.. ❤
Rachel and Josh, there is a way to abuse overlords using Yenna Redtooth regent. Haunted woods, for instance you cast it for 3 get a land then use yenna to copy the enchantment it comes in as a 6/5 creaure and you get a 6/5 on the battlefield and two lands of ramp for 5 manna yes please. Also the white one gives you 4 flyers and a 6/5. With potential for another one to come out in the next four turns.. not to mention if you lose it then you can copy it with Yenna again. Mixed with this with doubling season copied and you our in abuse town. Yenna is my signature deck. So much fun with enchantmentse
Rooms are great a lot of them have great late game effects stapled to a card that does something early game so it’s not a dead card in your hand early
The green overlord isn't that slow when played with Bello as a Commander 😍 for 3 you have a 5 mana enchantment that can attack the same turn it has arrived. So the value of this card in it is extremely high.
Even with token decks like Chatterfang, you'll create a nice Squirrel from that land.
Playing this overlord in a 5C deck also makes sense if you can cheat spells like Scio of Draco for only 2 manas or profit from the domain mechanic.
Nice video as always, so good to watch your content!
At 34:18, why does Ghostly Flicker not work on Overlord of the hauntwoods?
Because in this scenario Overlord of the Hauntwoods isn't a creature so Ghostly Flicker won't work.
Would love to see the decklist for your Disa the restless!
My janky Bhaal, lord of murder deck loves Come back wrong. I can get two goad triggers from Bhaal if I destroy one of my own creatures, or borrow someone else's if I target theirs and get one goad trigger when it gets sacrificed.
City of death or three blind mice could work nicely with the everywhere token from the overlord of the hauntwoods. I may put him in my Yenna, Redtooth Regent enchantress deck.
In a Mahadi deck, the Meathook Massacre II is COMPLETELY NUTS.
Mahadi is nudging you toward Force Sacc with stuff like Plaguecrafter, Dictate Of Erebos and token generation like Skittering Witch and altars.
Mahadi typically makes 4 treasures per turn by casting a Plaguecrafter. that means you are positive for next turn.
Casting a Meathook II for 10mana is so easy XD
Ancient Cellarspawn is hilarious in a Marvo deck, absolutely hilarious!
Playing overlords in standard has shown they play way better than they read with a little bit of synergy help.
standard is way different than commander though. Not saying that cant be good in the right deck (pretty much every card can be). but in commander you have to wait for a whole 3 players to get an impending counter off. That goes by alot faster in standard.
i do think the black and white ones are really good though.
@@dericplummer9272 it's definitely different. My point was just that they play better than they read. The black one for sure as a mill four and grab a creature out of the yard can be great. And yes white is the color of blink, and white overlord is probably auto include. Just so much value
glissa sunslayer remove up to 3 counter from target permanent. That with impending doom maybe. I have her in my self mill deck to remove finality counters from what ever I bring back.
Im surprised goad didnt get brought up with Split Up, just goad all the opponents stuff and then blow it up if it isnt dead already!
I wish I'd thought of that sooner.
Fits perfectly in Nelly Borca.
Meathook massacre 2 is really niche but in my Savra queen of the golgari deck it's a 4 mana enchantment and is crazy good
Cool to see someone talking about Nowhere to Run. I love ward hate and flash on it is 🤌 wonderful.
Sporogenic Infection is another piece of removal from the set I love in commander. Makes any damage a kill on what its placed on, but more interestingly it targets a player to sac a creature other than the enchanted creature, two for one removal for two mana, potentially ignoring protection if an opponent only has two creatures and one has hexproof/ward, or target another player with just one large threat and edict it. Great card
The green overlord is great in standard! It makes domain playable
think of rooms like adventure cards that you get to pick which side of the card goes on the adventure.
Ancient cellarspawn dropped my jaw during spoiler season. I have a Hidetsugu and Kairi deck and ancient cellarspawn is filthy in there, it’s perfect
Would love to see the decklist!
@@SwedishWookie
Decklist -- H&K Clones -- Shared via TopDecked MTG
Main (100)
1 Viscera Seer
1 Flesh Duplicate
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Ancient Cellarspawn
1 Glasspool Mimic // Glasspool Shore
1 Mirrorhall Mimic // Ghastly Mimicry
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Pitiless Plunderer
1 Stunt Double
1 Visage Bandit
1 Drivnod, Carnage Dominus
1 Hidetsugu and Kairi
1 Brainstorm
1 Dark Ritual
1 Feign Death
1 Malakir Rebirth // Malakir Mire
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Not Dead After All
1 Pongify
1 Sacrifice
1 Supernatural Stamina
1 Undying Evil
1 Undying Malice
1 Counterspell
1 Cackling Counterpart
1 Fated Infatuation
1 Flare of Denial
1 Quick Study
1 Saw in Half
1 Flare of Malice
1 Reenact the Crime
1 See Double
1 Sublime Epiphany
1 Grave Endeavor
1 Preordain
1 Scheming Symmetry
1 Come Back Wrong
1 Quasiduplicate
1 Rite of Replication
1 Coiling Rebirth
1 Replication Technique
1 Zndrsplt's Judgment
1 Season of Weaving
1 Stolen Identity
1 Blood Money
1 Sorin's Vengeance
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Aminatou's Augury
1 Clone Legion
1 In Garruk's Wake
1 Mnemonic Deluge
1 Temporal Trespass
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Arcane Signet
1 Blade of Selves
1 Dimir Signet
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Kaya's Ghostform
1 Mystic Remora
1 Mirror Mockery
1 Endless Evil
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Choked Estuary
1 Command Tower
1 Drowned Catacomb
15 Island
1 Lazotep Quarry
1 Mirrorpool
1 Mystic Sanctuary
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Sunken Hollow
9 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
Can’t post a link so this is the deck list lol, it’s very clone heavy since I just use the legend rule to get ETBs + death triggers of Hidetsugu and Kairi from one spell
Can confirm: hedron crab and hedge shredder is BANANAS in something like muldrotha. Now throw in spelunking
If you're going to mention Mirage Mirror and rooms, it would be remiss not to consider the funny interaction they have.
The comprehensive rules say that "left half unlocked" and "right half unlocked" are designations a permanent can have (709.5c). Any permanent. This means that, if you copy a room card with Mirage Mirror and unlock its halves, these designations are retained: if you unlock the right half, Mirage Mirror has a "right half unlocked" designation forever.
So when you next copy a room, _any_ room, it will have its right half unlocked. This can let you cheat some mana in funny ways.
Overlord of the Hauntwoods is great!! It would be an awesome addition to a Roon deck.
* Would have been a great moment for Josh to say Roon in an Irish accent.
The idea that nowhere to run makes Josh feel safe is hilarious 😂
Josh keep being you! Also, never been this early!!