The Sundered Review (And Writing in Video Games)
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Get ready for a sundered review and a pretentious rant about how I think writing is bad sometimes.
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![MISSING: SLIM SHADY [Expanded Mourner’s Edition Trailer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xh8qgHrOO1g/mqdefault.jpg)
Sundered? I HARDLY KNOW HER! but you can buy the game on GoG with this link to support the channel: www.gog.com/en/game/sundered
ahh my favorite type of videos, "man who thinks when he sees the game"
We live in a society that disrespected the goo, and now those were people we killed
Ah yes, the power rangers movie.
Calm down, Neil Druckmann.
oh yes bloodborn
IMPORTANT CORRECTION: Incinerating the shards actually gives you a different set of abilities, so you can either go full shard upgrades, or full incinerate upgrades, or a mix of the two. Big woopsie on my part missing that important and obvious detail.
So the incinerate run isn't really a challenge run like i said.
This gives the game a lot more replayability, but other than that doesn't really change any of the over all points about the game.
for those of you saying "He obviously didnt beat the game 3 times"
yes i obviously didnt, these videos have a deadline.
What kind of a game reviewer are you if you can't replay a game 15 times??? smh
What kind of game reviewer are you, if you can actually admit a mistake? doesn't that disqualify you from game reviewing, if you admit a mistake? at least thats what all prominent game review magazins do! (obvious sarcasm, just in case that didn't came through)
This comment should definitely be pinned.
@@derekdrake8706 Thought i had pinned it earlier, guess not, my bad
Can you review forbidden siren
My whole day was just made. You made a new video!
This is the first review of this game that I've seen that was actually overall positive. Anything else I've seen talks about how shit metroidvanias are, or how shit rouge-lites are, or goes to say that the game is shit because it even attempted to combine the two. I appreciate the genuine breakdown you gave for each genre individually before critiquing the whole, it's really a nice change of pace from most game reviewers.
I tried it after getting it free from Epic, got to the final area, and was too annoyed by the level design and enemies at that point and quit.
I mostly laughed at the whinging reviews I saw. I'm old and no video game pro, but the whiny reviews seemed like vapid petulance rather than valid criticism.
lol Metroidvanias rule, the same goes for rogue-lites too. How can you reject whole genres of video games and say they suck when there are tons of people that love them? However, blending the too has not really produced a successful result until now I think. It's a difficult project and sundered is a good example of this. Take a look and ingenious clown's review of sundered.
I know right!
Dunno if I agree, the way he describes Metroidvanias strikes me as a fairly large misreading of the Metroidvania genre. In talking about the merits of this game "as a Metroidvania", he almost solely brings up combat and combat-adjacent topics, and the segment on Dark Souls' purported Metroidvania design is baffling. This isn't to say that these points aren't meaningful, because I never felt confused what he was trying to say, but it felt to me that he isn't really evaluating the game as a Metroidvania (as he thinks), he is looking at it as an RPG, which was a mistake that (in my mind) lessened the extent to which this video functioned as a review.
ngl bro, found your channel a while back and never subbed but I liked the content, reason was that I just simply forgot, then 2 weeks ago I found it again and omg i regret forgetting, your content is really fucking enjoyable and it's actually informative, i've actually bought games you reviewed unlike reviews from other content creators
14:15 Metroidvanias are still linear in a sense that you are expected to visit areas and acquire abilities in certain order. In Metroidvania that is known as "Sequence". What they ARE however is interconnected, each ability allowing more shortcuts and pathways through known areas into new rooms/subsections and into different areas that didn't seem connected before.
The nonlinearity comes much later in form known as "SequenceBreaking". Sequence Breaking shows the true Metroid mastery, as it requires knowledge of mechanics to bypass ability checks designed for one ability, with masterful execution of a different ability/trick.
But aside from that statement, I agre with you. Metroidvania is rather difficult to mix with Roguelite elements properly.
Dead Cells have similar problems, but it's much less Metroid and much more Roguelite, where Metroid-like abilities are used to skip earlier areas and get close to where you stopped your progress on an otherwise fairly linear path.
21:05 Jesus Christ brother you hit the nail on the head so hard there you may have split the atom, congratulations
I have no idea what you're talking about with that "incinerating the Elder Shards is the unreasonable ultra-hard mode" thing, the abilities you get from incinerating the shards are way more practical and powerful (albeit less cool-looking) than the ones you get for corrupting your abilities. Which kind of goes against the narrative of "the elder shards will give great power but at a terrible price" since they don't really give as much power as the bonuses you get for not using them. Also the final boss in the Resist ending is vastly easier than the one for the Embrace ending.
While I disagree with the final boss thing, personally, yeah I feel like Jacob didn't actually play the game through all three times to see the endings/path differences. You get different things for incinerating shards, most importantly, CASH for upgrades. He also did not mention how the stat tree changes when you pick your option.
I figured you just wouldnt get powers from it, huh. Neat
@@roadsidepeekneek7259 I assumed that too, since the game kind of frames it as either doing the right thing or selling your soul for power, but then it turns out that doing the right thing actually gives you even more power.
Thanks for pointing this out, added a correction in the comments
@@soakthemilkman note this, perks play an integral role too in some parts in this game
I didnt expect that locked and loaded takedown of clichee story structures but it could easily have been its own video and it was amazing
"This is going to be one of my more pretentious videos" - Unff yeah, talk dirty to me daddy.
This video was probably your best yet, some real brain activating shit here. The philosophical clash between Metroidvania and rouge-like has been bothering me for a while now but I could never quite put my finger on the issue, you hit the nail on the head. At the very simplest level, a hallmark of the Metroidvania genre is collecting items and powers and the rogue-like is about losing what you have collected on death. Whilst not antithetical by any means there is still a certain friction of design there.
Prawn, chanterey and shiitake noodle soup for lunch today.
Big mood.
Never really thought about how those 2 genres (metroidvania/rougelike) mesh. It's definitely a fascinating dissection. It would be interesting to see your thoughts on a game called BELOW. That game also has some genre mixing going on, and the reviews for the game are mixed for that same reason. Overall, I still enjoyed the game, but it does seem a little confused on what it wants to be sometimes. So much so that the devs added a new mode that takes away the survival mechanics of the game to ease newer players into it. But anyway, great video! Subbed!
Wow. I literally just saw this game on sale and was looking for a review, not an hour ago. PJ totally was like, "I got you, bro."
My man i have been waiting for another video forever
Dude your videos are really well done and enjoyable, love these in-depth analysis of the writing and the nature of game genres!
You're getting these done quite quickly, sweet! Always something new in there, something I hadn't thought about.
I’ve been waited big for an upload! Finally paid off
21:18
What if I MYSELF am the society?!
I feel like the more you play Sundered, the more you can grow to appreciate the story it's trying to tell. A lot of little bits of the plot or backstory are hidden in the descriptions of the skill-tree unlockables, the perks or the abilities. Like the story of how Valkarie came to be (it's in the descriptions of abilities, told in the order of getting them). Or the entire other half of the story told from the perspective of the Valkarie or character descriptions hidden in the unlockables you get by destroying Elder Shards. In this sense, Sundered is a bit like Dark Souls - at least when it comes to the storytelling. Except it has skills instead of items.
I've also found that I've come to enjoy the story way more on my second and third playthrough. Since I already know all the pieces, going through them again helps them form a whole. Plus, each of the endings gives a little bit of context for the story.
(Spoilers here!) Like the Crawling Chaos ending, which confirms that not only was Eshe one of many taken by the elder god, she's also not going to be the last. And since she didn't destroy the god, someone might end up releasing him in the future. Or how the Beacon of Hope ending slowly unravels the true intentions and the manipulative nature of the god with each Shard you destroy (which, yeah, he was shady from the start, but seeing him go mental on Eshe and then hearing his starting monologue again in a new run really highlighted all the ways he was manipulating her from the very beginning - like not telling her he was the one who took her to his world).
Maybe I'm looking too much into it, but I feel like the story gains plenty of depth once you gather enough clues from descriptions and endings. It's not the most complicated out there, but it's not as shallow as it seems on the first playthrough.
Damn near killed me with the delivery of that Sistine Chapel line, my sides were in orbit.
Wop, I'm going down a rabbit hole consisting of your videos. I really enjoyed this one. And the Agony ones. Good job, hope to see more videos pop up in my subscription feed for many many years. Cheers
Nice video fam. Hearing you talk about designing bosses with the systems in the game in mind, reminded me of a game called Mechstermination Force that I think you might enjoy. Its super fun and has good boss fights.
Your videos are very well structured and easy to follow even though your analysis is what I would consider "deep"
This fact alone makes you above majority of game reviewers on youtube.
I hope you keep this up, you have a gift for this shit.
Do people call Dead Cells a Metroidvania??? Dead Cells is NOT a Metroidvania.
I don't know the exact definition of Metroidvania but when I explained Dead Cells to someone I mentioned that it is some kind of Metroidvania. Thats why I am asking you to explain me why it's not to change my mind :)
On the official website devs said that Dead Cells is a mix of Metrodivania and Roguelite calling it Roguevania so I really don't know what's the problem with calling it Metrodivania when it's clear that this comparison is not wrong.
Metroidvanias are typically games focused on exploration of a large, interconnected world where you can continuously upgrade your character and unlock new areas with the help of new movement abilities. They're also characterized by backtracking. Sundered has all of these things. Dead Cells has some of them, but only in letter, not in spirit. It has exploration, but it's "exploration" in small, linear maps that are procedurally-generated, and time-gated doors discourage taking your time to explore the world. It has permanent upgrades that allow access to new ares, but unlike in most metroidvanias, most of these upgrades just unlock access to new areas (IE: growing the weird vine things or using teleporters) without any use in standard combat or movement. It has an "interconnected world" in the sense that you can travel through the whole thing, but it's linear, divided into stages connected by obvious hubs, can't be backtracked through, and shortcuts, alternate routes, and secrets are few and far between. The game offers upgrades, but in classic rogue lite fashion, these upgrades aren't permanently part of your character, they just get sprinkled into the procedurally-generated world.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that Dead Cells isn't good- it's fantastic. I'm just saying it's not a Metroidvania. It's a rouge-lite through and through, it just has a tiny bit of exploration. If the existence of exploration makes a game a metroidvania, that makes Enter the Gungeon a Metroidvania too, and I really doubt anyone would argue that point.
@@stevethebarbarian9876 was going to reply why dead cells is absolutely not a metroidvania but you explained it very well.
I dropped Sundered exactly for the reasons around 10:00, I'm very familiar with metroidvanias, so I went though the game just fine enjoying the thrill of clearly being underleveled, but one of the last bosses is a hard "stat check" and I didn't have much on the skill tree, even less of those "pseudo-charms" at a high level, didn't want to grind any of that, so it's on my steam's graveyard
Great call on the main game story archetypes. It's part of why I love something like Undertale's writing bc it's more like "But what if we *didn't* live in a society".
I love the voice acting in this game. I'm almost certain it's not real words but it just sounds raw as fuck
"The last of us 2" is "those were people you killed" on steroids. The fact the game doesn´t let you choose to kill or not the "final boss" really shows that the game thinks players may not have noticed yet that "revenge is bad". I am surprised that Neil Druckmann didn´t stoped the game and started a live action PSA showing crime stats related to retaliation.
The last of us was never about player choice though, in the same way you didn't get to chose whether to kill the doctor at the end of the first you don't get to choose in the second. The first was all about following the story of a character instead of *being* a character as such being the one that make major decisions like that doesn't mesh with the kind if story telling the games work with.
No naughty dog game is about player choice. There is a story they want to tell and you experience that story. The game straight up wouldn't work if you were allowed to choose.
Yeah what thor said, i really liked tlou2 and i think it worked for me at large but theres no denying it wants to be an HBO show. Its cool how it creates this wedge between the player and the character but it fell apart for me in the final scene aswell.
@Blue .Barrymore based take
@@MagiofAsura You're right but there's ways of representing that choice as being understandable and not frustrating. I'm getting the sense that the story and character choices made in Tlou2 are frustrating and without good reason.
8/10
Too much society
i loved the meta commentary/ wider scope of this. and humor is on point too. keep it up!
"Clear areas in a certain way like in a roguelite?" Isn't it the metroidvania genre that does that? Or is there something I'm missing with the rogue'lite' term, since in Nethack there's no continuity between deaths. Knowledge based progression if you will. Dead Cells is an example of the same ideas used here where the same design choices work. Oh and just hit the point in the video, you'll love it and change your mind in a future video I'm sure!
Also regarding the bit about video game writing, it's not fair to dunk on AAA games. Those are made to make money, and if you want to make money you have to sell to every other mouth-breathing bastard that has them nintendoes so yeah.
I'm surprised no one really talked about this part of Sundered.
The game is linear at the 3/4th part of the game, if you look at the game as having 4 parts.
1st Boss, 2nd Boss, 3rd Boss, and Final Boss
Realistically speaking, the 1st and 2nd Bosses are interchangeable to a degree in which order, but the 3rd Boss is a massive roadblock that seems to incentive sheer grinding, to the point you just sit there and wait for the hordes to come en masse to farm the currency or simply die over and over to reset the 1st and 2nd Bosses.
Now then, usually this goes unnoticed because in Roguelikes where you have skill trees, it's to be expected you need to grind up to certain benchmarks, but in Sundered it's glaringly obvious and out of place because its Metroidvania components focus on actual Skill.
And this 3rd Boss just smacks all your Skill in the face and gives you a swift boot to the head until you grind your stats and abilities to a "recommended" level.
Now don't get me wrong, I can do a good grind. I'm the type of idiot to grind to max level without ever leaving the tutorial, but that's because I know the game I'm playing requires grinding to surpass constant checkpoints.
If the hordes can be seen as a Soft DPS Checkpoint where Skill can let you overcome having bad upgrades, this 3rd Boss is the brick wall described in the video.
TL;DR:
Missed point where Sundered so heavily encourages the whole "Die to get better" mentality over having player skill usually seen in most Metroidvanias, but this is coming from a person who played all 3 endings and the optional secret boss in the Eldritch Edition
I'd listen to the Eldritch being, just like in real life
Thanks for this clarified review of a game I had played a couple years ago. I'm into Metroid type of games, and one which comes to mind is A Robot Named Fight!. This too is a roguelite in its machination and design, yet at it's core it handles like Metroid as well. So Sundered kicked my ass way more than ARNF! did with it's randomly generated obstacles. I don't want to ramble on, so I just wanted to say some words and stuff, plus your videos are enjoyably well put. Keep on keeping on.
Hey man! Stumbled upon your video since I was looking for reviews on games by Thunder Lotus Games (Jotun, Sundered, Spiritfarer) and you're really good at this! I love your analysis of story archtypes at 17:03 - and it'll be something I keep an eye on in the future if the games I play fall into one of the 3. Instantly when you listed them I thought WatchDogs for "We live in a society", Last of Us Part II for "Did you know those were people you killed?" and Final Fantasy 7 for "Don't disrespect the goo".
Hope to see more of your work and please, play Dead Cells! It's awesome!
I played this game and finished it a few weeks before this came out. I don't like this review, it doesn't dig deep enough into the game per-se and while the Rogue vs Metroidvania point of conflicting mores is fantastic (gonna steal it). It doesn't really talk about the good of the game vs the bad of the game. This game first two bosses are excellent. The art style is excellent. Thank you for talking about the tightness of the combat boxes cause I had not realized that but totally. The games weak points are exploration and particularly the last section if you incinerate everything is maddeningly hard to navigate. By the time I reached the last boss I was near-nigh invulnerable. Unlike the first two bosses which I barely killed each time and felt great. On the lore I think you missed the cultist are evil and the valkeryies are humans.
Movement is good? This game holds the dubious honor of having my personal award for worst feeling base jump in a video game. This is one of the few (3-4) video games I ever refunded and the subjectively "worst jumping in video games ever" played a big role in my decision.
hey man check out a game called "kenshi", its a great game... but its more than a little different. Would be curious what you think about it.
LETS SHARPEN SOME STICKS BOYS
THEN, LET’S GET TO WORK
Hey Jacob, I was wondering if you would review the game NeverWinter. It would mean a lot to me!
13:23.... Am- am I having a stroke????
I played this game until I got to the final area with only a few deaths outside of bosses. At the final area with massive gaps, screen filling enemies, and "wind" I just decided it was too annoying to really bother to complete and stuck it in the dislike/won't finish section of my library.
This one is easy for me because I just don't like roguelikes in general
"Resident Evil 4 > Sistine Chapel" is my entire personality.
While I kinda can see the point about Hotline Miami playing the "Those were people you killed" card, I don't know for sure if I'd say it was doing it straight, or at least, not as straight as some games might.
It felt like it was aimed more at the character you were playing as, and not so much the player. Jacket's a seemingly normal person who's just...slowly turning into a killer. it's kinda done in a few other games like Farcry 3, but I don't know of many others, unfortunately. (Which is a shame because I love that style of plot. Call me biased!)
You start off the game mostly with melee weapons, since the guns are both less common, and sorta harder to use than the smol brain lead pipe that instawarps you to enemies for a cheap instakill. But then through repetition, you become a better killer. You start using those guns since they become more and more needed with the larger enemy groups, and you realize that they're pretty efficient. You're becoming a better player, and Jacket? He's becoming a better murderer.
Side note: It's 3:00 am, I'm tired as fuck, and I was probably just bad at HLM, but that's kinda what I got out of it.
Also if any other game stories do that trope, let me know! I'm looking for more to get into.
My world is crumbling around me
You're one of the best game reviewer's I've found. Please make more!
"a robot named fight" might be worth checking out because its also a metroidvania roguelike, taking more from the metroid side than rogue.
My brain just jumped from pruned to shriveled.
Also, if I may, I suggest you check out the game Caves of Qud.
It is cool.
Sundered is one of the few games I regretted buying. I really tried to like it and get through it, but the IMO unfair hordes of enemies combined with the lack of checkpoints and repetitive rooms and areas made it impossible for me to do so. It sounded really promising on the Steam page, but 2 hours in that picture had already shattered.
15:12 I would say that Dead Cells is Sundered but good.
I'd love to hear more people weigh on in this. I have a friend who loves these games and I wanted to get Sundered for them based on this review, but this comment makes me curious if Dead Cells would be a better sell.
I know the developers of Dead Cells from their online browser games, which they seemed to abandon very quickly, so I've a bit of bad taste in my mouth from that.
Dead Cells is a different game altogether. They only have perspective in common. So what you're saying is, you don't like Sundered. Which is fine.
Apples and oranges, my dude, they're way too different to compare
@@ividyon dead cells has rng levels and enemy placement like sundered but they are organised in a way where encounters are more of a player skill check than character stat check.
@@ividyon Dead Cells is far from abandoned.
The archetypes you talk about,
"we live in a society",
"did you know those were people you killed",
"don't disrespect the goo"
Did you come up with the idea as these are the 3 main archetypes for a "serious plot"
Did you make up the latter 2? ironically i find this part of the video the most interesting.. i could watch a video of you just breaking these down in further detail. (even though you did a good job here).
Indisputably the greatest game reviewer on the youtubes
As someone who played sundered I can say that everything you said is correct. About Dead Cells, it is a really good game but my problem with games like these is the RNG part. Even if you master the combat if you don't get enough good upgrades, you'll most likely die.
Also, play Hollow Knight.
I kept getting into blocked off zones in this game by doing the up lights and wall jumps, if you do it right you can get up a wall
The apparent "you need to die" element of the game reminds me of those idle/clicker games that use the tactic of "you reset the world and we'll reward you". It's a cheap trick (if done not creatively and innovatively) to make the players think the game is longer than it's programmed for.
Once I got over that extensive dopamine high, I learnt to hate idle games (but still relapse from time to time lmao).
"what happens when too much money?" my sides went to orbit
I don't care for games like this usually but I got hooked on Sundered and played through the whole game with me son. It was really good!
Sundered is a decent enough game ruined by a single mechanic. The horde mechanic and how it's implemented is one of the single most annoying mechanics I've come across, it arbitrarily stonewalls you momentum.
The mechanic would have been better served as a benchmark between new locations. As it is in the game now, the horde only makes backtracking even more tedious, and it hault progression because it discourages exploration of new areas in favour of baiting out a horde spawn.
As a side note, whoever thought making a sizable chunk of the game's enemies flying sprites that can float through terrain should be fired.
Loved the review and analysis, very well narrated as always, greetings from Argentina.
And about that GOO
I do like that in the Sundered you get the spoken story from perspective of Echaton, implied story from Valkyries and visual from both sides and then the question remains- what will you do with the GOO
"metroidvania level design isn't very complicated in the first place" i'm gonna cry
I loved Sundered. Then I played Dead Cells. Now I'm playing Hades. All three are great combinations of Metroidvania and Rogue-lite elements. While Sundered is beautiful and I really enjoyed my two playthroughs (full good and full bad), I like the other two even more. While I love many Metroidvanias, I do definitely get bored of the same enemies in the same places. I think the way these three games do it is much more fun, and depending on difficulty level, much more rewarding, relying on knowing your capabilities and limitations much more than memorization and muscle memory.
Evangelion: Shinji lives in a disrespectful society, and he doesn't know that the goo he killed were people.
I think the main difference between Sundered and Dead Cells in how they mix Metroidvania with roguelike.
Sundered leans closer to the RogueLITE side with it's skill tree while most of Dead Cells's long term goals are there to unlock new randomly appearing weapons, most of them having higher skill floors and sometimes ceilings as well as new difficulty options.
There are exceptions though: gold recovery upgrades (keeping a higher amount of gold from a run to the next), the potion upgrades (they work like Dark Souls's estus flask) and increased rare drop odds. You could add the special moves you need to unlock new areas to that list, but they are mostly used as extra risk VS reward opportunities during your run rather than new techniques that trivialize old content.
In a way, Dead Cells fully embraces it's roguelike parts, incorporating the metroidvania elements on top of that to further them.
On the other hand Sundered seems to do the opposite, where a normal Metroidvania gets amputated to replace some parts with roguelike elements that supposedly "fix" the Metroidvania genre.
Any interest in covering Kentucky Route Zero? I found your channel through your excellent HLD video, and felt similarly about that game's value as art. KRZ is by far the most literary game I've played, and I think that even if you didn't like the theme or point-and-click gameplay you'd find it narratively interesting and aesthetically/musically beautiful.
I kinda feel that nier gestalt is a good example of "those are people you killed" done well enough
I thought the hordes in this game were a risk-reward system instead of a stat-check system when I played it.
"Metroidvania level design isn't complicated..."
*LAUGHS IN LA-MULANA*
As an eldeitch horror enjoyer I do like how your choice with the shards affects what you fight at the end of the game.
Spoilers:
If you choose to use the shards at the end of the game you first fight your pure version and then your humanity.
If you choose to keep the shards but not use them you fight Nyarlatoteph, but you don't banish him. You escape to the surface but your indecision leaves eldritch shadows behind you.
If you incinerate the shards you banish Nyarlatoteph, but it shatters your only escape to the surface.
Someone on comment section of one boss rush vid had pointed out how one of the bosses is a foreshadowing to your endings. The Legion and Salvation boss with their heart- Rivalry
I am on my Second walkthrough through the Game and i must say the Game gets so much easier now i Know how the hords Work which areas has endless Sporn and you Need to get to a certain Spot
And yeah i must say in the First playthrough it was more Like a rouge Lite and now on the Second playthrough more Like a Souls-like the Term Metroid vania doesn't quite Catch it even through the Kind of Open world but wegen it gets to the pure playthrough it is extremely linear
Maybe it is because i compare Many Metroid vanias with super Metroid or Castlevania Aria of Sorrow (or Symphony of the night) where, with a certain Skill Level you Had the Option where to Go.
Wow, more like BLUNDERED
no, this games pretty good.
It's interesting, I remember seeing a review about the game and it was received as pretty terrible. But at some point the reviewer stopped playing the game normally and pretty much just ran from every enemy. Somehow back then I didn't notice how this pretty much invalidates the whole review. We all make mistakes I guess
@@maxwuup2152 I would say that it's because the enemies never stop spawning. I once stood in the corner for an absurd amount of time just hitting them and they just kept on coming. One of the reasons I hate this game so much. That and Cnidaria. It's such a garbage boss.
Absolutely fantastic video! I really enjoy your takes on game design!
ok but did you know those people you killed lived in a society that was disrespecting the goo?
Hey, if you want to check out some games with interesting "We live in a society" and "Don't disrespect the Goo" stories, then check out Pathologic 2 and The Void by Ice-Pick Lodge. Those are some uniquely messed up games with uniquely messed up stories.
I think Sundered benefits more from having the procedurally generated rooms than not having them. But still I don't think they add much to the gameplay, they are there to address the problem of having to traverse the entire map again and again after each death. The main difference between sundered and a roguelike is that a roguelike doesn't rely on the procedurally generated map to be replayable. They rely on the varied number of builds and playstyles they give the player through distinct items, boons, weapons and their sinergies. Sundered only gives you new skills common to metroidvanias which allow you to reach new areas and move in more expressive ways but ultimately every new death you still play the same game with the same unvaried playstyle. And that is why the rooms themselves varying or not aren't the problem. It is still better that they do vary than not given the way the game is built, in my opinion.
Great video and great analysis, gave me much to reflect.
I highly suggest that you do a review on the long dark it is a beautiful game with a unique art style
Wait... they made a game, which gameplay are two competing extremes and they made a plot about two competing faction and they didn't tie those two factions to these extreme gameplay philosophies?!
Imagine one faction going on and on about non-linearity and progression via tools and manipulating the world the other about cycle of death and rebirth, chipping away hardest of rocks, one life at a time, constantly learning and honing the skill.
Things (upgrades, plot, wish fullfilment) being handed to you to make your life genuinely easier and more fun, because you through whatever means reached some arbitrary check point, or got lucky vs. Being able to climb steepest of mountains and best toughest of enemies, given enough attempts and room to grow for no other reward, than doing so.
Dead Cells isnt really metroidvania like at all though so I dont think that'll change your mind.
It's a great game though
Sundered to me just lacked a proper, memorable profile. Combat felt ultimately unsatisfying. Killing enemies felt like hitting paper. I played it for not even an hour before putting it down.
And I'm a pretty big fan of roguelikes (Dead Cells, Don't Starve ...).
“Dark Souls is a metroidvania rogue-like” is a truth bomb I wasn’t ready for, but don’t deny in the least. Also, nice review. I’ve been considering buying the Eldritch edition of this for a while
“Im not a fucking coward”
Loving the channel man thank you
How is Spec Ops the Line ignoring nuances in killing people is bad? I would like you to make a video and explain your thought process.
It seems like sundered is a metroidvania with rougelite elements while dead cells is a rougelite with metroidvania elements.
Love your stuff dude. Keep going. 🙌
Honestly, you touch on a great subject at the end and I feel like this is complete deja vu from my last comment - but I feel like more writers need to understand the concept of 'Show, don't tell'. I don't need to be explicitly told something about the world they are currently living in when I can infer it by existing within that world - and, a lot of times, if the writers 'tell' us something, it usually comes at a great detriment to the actual world building itself. I think this really stems from the fact that most people have difficulty being objective - and I see it as the reason why 'show, NOT tell' is something that has been relevant in most great stories.
When you show something, you leave it up to the audience to process and understand what is going on, and for THEM to come to their own conclusion about the situation. Does this mean that, occasionally, you will have people who come to an conclusion that is completely off base with what you were hoping they would take? Yes, but in my defense, Objectivism sounds great: who wouldn't want to shoot bees out of there hands? BEES, JACOB. *BEES*.
I digress - but the fact that they came to the conclusion means so much more than explicitly telling them what to believe. On the other hand - and this goes back to the objective part - when you TELL someone what to think, you are not only removing any sort of ownership over the conclusion, you are also being incredibly subjective and projecting your morality on the players - which, often times, your modern morality would not be something that would even fucking exist in the world that you created anyway - but that is another hour long rant for another time, but god damn does it piss me off.
I think that writers commonly forget that - even if you wish to tell a specific story - you need to let the art speak and allow people their own interpretation of the events - but this issue rears it head so often in video games that, at this point, I sort of give up really caring about any of the role-playing aspects in general for most games. Say someone is going into the game with the mindset that their character is, for an extreme example, a sociopath who views himself as the second coming of Zeus - he's here to fuck bitches and cause immense strife amongst his fellow gods. That someone then goes through the game doing, well, game things like killing people and stealing only to reach the ending and for a person to literally say, 'Oh golly, oh gee - killing is bad. I can't believe I did that. Wowzers, I'm a bad dude - those were people.', it creates a sort of dissonance which destroys any of the effort built into the world.
Of course there is nuances and other caveats that you can bring up in defense of the writer's side but what do I look like: a reputable reviewer? HA!
ALSO: RUclips randomly unsubscribed me from you. What the hell, man? I'm subscribed to like 20 people tops and you're the only one who actually uploads more than once a year - how am I suppose to procrastinate if RUclips is trying to hide you from me?
Yet here's I, doing amateur writing, remembering the many times chief said she couldn't understand the story because "it was too complicated". Can't blame her: having 4 jobs at the same time, thus occupying most of her time, doesn't allow for much artistic appreciation.
Honestly? To this day I think it is about who. Who are you writing for. People who enjoy reading and understanding mysteries? Show. People that want to read a story and go on through life? Tell. Simple as that.
Those are some slick 2d animations though.
Dune is considered a "goop" story, right?
Dune would be a good example of a goo story done well
I like your review and perspective but I wholeheartedly disagree that death is a mechanic of the game. Yes you are teleported to the skill tree when you die but you 100% dont have to die to get there. You can just go there from the pause menu. Death is not punished but its not rewarded. Lol also I would say destroying the shards is the brave path and corrupting the shards is the easy, cowardly path.
honeestly th upgraded abilities felt terrible to use i did a no corrupted ability playthrough an then tried to do a crrupted but i kid you not the double jump felt so bad to use thaata i didnt finish so thats imho why you shouldnt corrupt
I mean I donno am I a masochist for trying if there is a way to get the best possible ending in a game? To be honest regardless of how hard would it be to finish sunder without taking the shards from what you described its not that I want the challenge necessarily but I would take it if that means to get me the good ending or what I think is the good ending.
Today I learned I live in a society, in which I should not murder everyone for the goo... sometimes.
6:16
Yeah, except the most important one. Level design, that is. Level design is nonexistent at best and a tedious, repetitive rubbish at all other times.
Comment of Algorithmic dissidence
Great video!
If I may give a recommendation, I would love to see you tackle Disco Elysium.
You know I have heard dark souls referenced for all kinds of game design choises, but metroitvania isnt one of them. in DS there is only ONE instance where you need to have a specific power up to proceed and that is getting the ord vessle. Weapons are not metroidvania type power ups needed to further your progress. weapons and their upgrades are effectifly what the skill tree in sundered is
My boy have you watched Gellot do his a All Boss No Damage video?
ProbablyJacob Could you review a game called West of Dead? It’s basically a cowboy rouge like game
I've seen a ton of Sundered reviews because I really like the game but this is the first one I really liked even with some of the others being positive even if I don't agree with the idea that there are the only 3 types of stories in games or whatever