What If The Horus Heresy Never Happened? - 40K Theories
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- Happy 1st Birthday 40K Theories :D
In this episode we examine what the Imperium of man may be like if the Horus Heresy never happened
EDIT: Addendum added, addressing a few points I missed. Click here: • Video of the annotation in the video.
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"In the noble brightness of the 41st Millenium, there is only High Adventure!"
Brighthammer?
Still Warhammer 40k,but with more science and logic in the Imperium
Every reply on this comment has been hilariously late. Nice.
@@mantha6912 10 hours ago was the last comment.
@@carlosdavidg7 for me it says 3 weeks? i'm referring to this specific comment chain
>The Emperor finds a way to remove the Butcher’s Nails
>The Emperor tells Magnus about the Webway project
>The Emperor warns the Primarchs about the ruinous powers
>Lorgar and Konrad would probably turn to Chaos
>Mortarion, Angron, and Russ would brutally kill them
>The Emperor would finally spend quality fatherly time with his sons
The good ending
Konrad can get fixed by by getting help from sanguinius
I'd like some talented fan writers to explore this alternate timeline.
@@floridaball4896 his brain is as cooked as thanksgiving turkey
I'm not sure Konrad would, if the Emperor can find a way to remove the Butcher's Nails, he can probably help Konrad overcome his super brain-aids. Lorgar would still most certainly fall to chaos, there's no two ways about that.
I can see a couple of ways that this time line could have come about.
1. The Primarchs are never scattered. This would have allowed the Emperor to personally raise and train his sons and would also have prevented them from being raised to believe in radically different ideologies which lead to conflicts between the Legions even before the Heresy.
2. The Emperor warns all of his sons about the existence of Chaos and how to protect themselves from it. Lorgar might never have made his pilgrimage if he knew what the gods actually were before hand, Fulgrim would have recognized the Slaaneshi Temple on Laeran for what it was and would never have let any of his troops go near it, Angron would have realized that his blood lust was pushing him towards Khorne and that he needed to get his rage under control and stop lobotomizing his troops, etc.
Tho if the Primarchs where never Scattered the legions would cease to Exist because on their Scattering the emperor used the Primarch project as an Inspiration for the Astartes Project but if they weren't scattered the legions would have been made A Few years in the M30s and possibly it may not be Called astartes or Some sort but if I'm wrong please explain because I'm only Good at Imperial and Tau lore.
You cannot simply "kill" the chaos gods, they would exist on in lesser manifestations, while the belief of "Unbelief" in the Imperium would result in the birth of a whole new chaos god with possibly the emperor as its very avatar.
yeah unless you use the necron mumbo jumbo techno bull crap to spread their anti warp pylons in the warp and everywhere else so hard that the warp simply stops existing cause its suppresed
and the emprah with primarchs were deffinetly smart enough to figure this one out
Chaos gods can be killed. It is the flows of warp energies derived from the material universe that cannot be destroyed. But that's not an issue. The species of the material universe just have to make sure the flows of energy and emotions in the warp do not expand to such an extent that they begin clumping together until they for a sentient being in the form of a warp entity or chaos god.
Necoho ;)
You can, actually. The warp existed before the formation of chaos Gods during the reign of the old ones. It was a stable space for souls before it became a murderfuckfest
Assuming Kor Phaeron died or did not corrupt Lorgar and therefore the Heresy not having occurred...
The XVII would likely have taken up the Imperial Truth again. I have every confidence that Kor corrupted Erebus and both continually pontificating Lorgar to worship the Emperor.
The Emperor would have likely successfully accessed the Webway, fueled by Magnus the Red and the Thousands Sons as Humanity's guide through it.
Angron would have died, for his butchers nails were fatal, and his Legion likely disbanded.
Konrad would've not have gone mad because the future was bright instead of dark.
Humanity would've been sheparded into the Webway to evolve and learn their gifts at the Emperor's personal lead. To then go out and reproduce, safe from predation, to breed a new race entirely.
Mankind would've been united and unstoppable through the Webway, culturally, economically and militarily.
We'd have ascended to supremacy, our future bright and secure.
Lorgar would continue to reinforce secularism, Konrad would enforce justice, Rogal would build our worlds defences, Guilliman would shape their infrastructure, Corax would be our watchful shadow. Alpharius would be our spy network, Perturabo would've built our future, Fulgrim would've guided our species to the pursuit of betterment, Mortarion would've helped watch for errancy, Horus would've been our general and hero, Sanguinius our soul and ideal, Vulkan would've been our protector, the Lion may have been our hunter of monsters, Russ may not have had any further role other than a last defence against potential sedition, Ferrus would've taught us technology and humanity, Jaghatai would've gone into obscurity no doubt, the outward watchmen ever on the edge of the galaxy.
The Orks would've been hunted down to extinction, the Eldar the same or pacified or treaties forcefully signed. The Tau would never have been allowed to exist, unless tolerance increased towards Xenos. Tyranids would never have been drawn to the galaxy because the Pharos would never have been used to such an extent. The Necrons, if and when they awoke would've found themselves fighting the Legions as a whole in whoms case, only complete victory could've been assumed for Humanity. We'd have been supreme.
And when at long last our future was guaranteed despite our flaws, I have no doubt the Emperor would've disappeared and taken his Primarchs with him.
i agree with all of this, but not the last part, when the emperor finally decided to take a more direct approach to guide humanity, i don't he would just leave when his plans were finally fulfilled, he intervened directly because he knew that humanity wouldn't have been able to survive otherwise
jesus bustamante I think he would. He stayed away from the spot light during the period humanity was at its peak. He only took the reigns when it all fell to shit because of warp storms and the AI rebelling. And had he done all he planned set the primarchs to their jobs , than vanished into the night waiting to be needed once more.
Neiasaurus Creation's Mankind would have reached a new age of Technology and Enlightenment. Perhaps it could have colonized the entire Milky Way as well as the Webway, and would then begin to move to others neighbouring galaxies such as Andromeda in search of more ressources and planets to colonize (mankind would basically multiply its numbers each centuries so it would need more territory and expansions). The Emperor would probably stay in the shadow but would keep a guiding hand on Mankind by using its governmens as puppets. New armies of mankind would have risen: Entire legions of new Superhumans warriors that could individually defeat even Custodes, numberless quintillions of regular Humans troopers equipped with extremelly advanced technologies and power armours, massive fleets of warships that would be a mix of Cyberpunk Dark Age of Tech style + Gothic Cathedral style in term of architecture and with weapons capable of destroying entire star systems..
Eventually, after conqueering a dozen galaxies, mankind would finally encounter ennemies capable of resisting its advance: the Tyrannids and their massive hive fleets would converge on mankind leading to massive Tyrannic Wars on entire galaxies. With the guiding hand of the Emperor and with its massive military might, mankind would be able to keep the threat at bay. At some point, the Imperium, now a massive multigalactif juggernaut, would encouter some lost colonies of the Dark Age of Technology, in which the descendants of those who escaped from the milky way settled in with entire intact STC libraries. Eventually some wars would break out between the surviving DAoT pocket empires and the Imperium, but the Imperium would emerge victorious.
An ancient threat would re-emerge: with do many humans spread across dozens of galaxies, chaos gods would rise again in newer forms. The Emperor would step out of the shadow to fight the war against Chaos.
Deep in the Webway in the city of Commoragh, the Dark eldar, having survived the xenocidal imperial purges, would plot their return on the galactic stage.
And in the 500th millenium, mankind would be plunged in a new era of total war against multiple threats at once, from the resurgence of Chaos, Dark Eldar, surviving Necrons and the remaining Hive Fleets, to the appearance of multiversal forces beyond even the comprehension of the Chaos entities themselves
@@admiralspire8867 I need to see a fanfiction of this. Now
@@admiralspire8867 and the primarchs will had a ton brothers and sons
If the Horus Heresy hadn't happened, the Imperium would still be grim in a number of ways.
*The Adeptus Mechanicus were basically working at gunpoint (That's why a sizeable portion of them supported Horus to begin with). Their techno-religion ran counter to the imperial truth, and that conflict never really was resolved. After the end of the Great Crusade, the next target of the Astartes could well have been the Forgeworlds.
*There were constant rebellions in worlds that were previously deemed "Compliant" even before the Horus Heresy. Even when the emperor was alive and well, people didn't quite roll over to the Imperium, and this was not an issue that could have been resolved with brute force.
*The Imperial truth would have always been a source of problems, because in the 40k universe, it's simply false. Gods do exist. In fact, given the nature of the warp it is impossible for gods not to exist. Even if the chaos gods that we know starved, another entity based on different emotions or beliefs would have appeared. The warp is a force of reality itself, trying to exterminate Chaos entities would be like trying to get rid of entropy.
once you read into it a lot of the crap gonig about the 40K universe for the Imperium is caused by the Emperor not coming clean about the existance of Chaos, most importantly not explaining this to the primarchs aka Emps did not trust humanity that they woudl know what to do with the knowledge, he didnt even need ot call them "Gods", Just Saying " Look Everyone, there are a bunch of "Xenos" out there lead by a bunch of severely fucked up Creatures that will not hesitate to destroy you if you let them fool you"(while donig this keeping a particular keen eye on Lorgar's and Magnus's Activities in the Warp or just guide them thru it, especially on Magnus as he was the original candidate to sit in the Golden Throne)
It's is very difficult to fight off a threat/temptation caused by somethnig you are not aware it exists
"trying to get rid of entropy"
That reminds me..
"THERE IS INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER"
@@Teixas666 thats why the jedi (the Republic golden age/the galactic civil war era) is so easily converted to the dark side its because the jedi basically banned any thing that related to the dark side and there are no more sith around during that because has been destroyed (presumably) and because of that even though they where indoctrinated from bith to despise the dark side, most of them dont actually understand or even know what the dark side whas
@@andimuhammadzulabrar3418hey were like "sith? That's impossible we didn't seen any sith for thousands of years" and they were always there plotting in the shadows and making sure that era of rule of two would culminate in ultimate sith victory that was Galatic Empire. But the force had other plans.
"the Legions of Astartes would march upon the Craftworlds"
YES
OH MAN-EMPEROR YES
That would be very... Wonderful!!!!!
Im not sure if they would though. Emperor was a very reasonable man, and therefore would not support genocide.
@@abyssstrider2547 Yeah, he'd probably ask them to show themeselves into the concentration camps of their own volition before signing off the exterminatus orders
@@Aravaganthus You do realize that the empire was not xenophobic during the emperor's rule?
Right?
Horus only needed a friend, if he had one, he wouldnt have had family issues.
*HUGS ARE THE ONE TRUE POWER*
Vulcan friend
Angron/his legion would have had to been euthanized or culled. The nails were killing him while making him more and more unstable. Lorgar basically changing Angron into a daemon prince is what "saved" him.
But the Nails weren't implanted into his Legion until shortly after they joined Chaos if I remember correctly, The World Eaters would be a LOT less bloodthirsty than they were at Isstavan, but I think at this point Angron would end up dead regardless of the Heresy.
+
+KingNothing1337 angron started implanting the nails into his marines pretty much as soon as he assumed command, way before the heresy started
after angron was found, and when he took control over his legion, he ordered the implantation of the butchers nails into his space marines, this was before they fell tho chaos
But Magnus searched for a way to remove them and was almost successful till Russ devastated prospero and destroyed all reasearch
The Logar heresy would have happened
Yeah, I think that Lorgar would definitely have fallen to chaos, regardless of whether or not any other primarchs would follow him.
+Venerable Dreadnought well lorgar was a heretic even before the heresy, and it was because of him and his schemes that started the ball rolling, we would all have been better off if his incubation pod had incinerated on impact with a meteor on its way through space.
Unless the PoD is that Lorgar has a damascene conversion to the Emperor's point of view, and fully embraces the Imperial Truth.
True. Nipping the bud with Lorgar would probably the most important action that could be taken to insure the Heresy never happens. Chances are, Lorgar would pursue chaos after his censure and would be executed at the hands of Russ.
+Alex Goldhill not worth the risk IMO, lorgar was/is a fanatic about what he believes in. After censure, if he was still loyal, he would have still venerated the emperor as a god, just maybe a little more secretively.
I honestly think the Tyranids would still invade but it would be a little later on because they wouldn't have sensed us as quick
I don't get this at all. Galaxies aren't hard to spot. There's multiple planets that independently evolved life, so it's not like they'd just assume it's barren. Is there something about the Milky Way galaxy that makes it evolve life multiple times over when other galaxies are so barren that Tyranids couldn't even be bothered to send a few scouts over to check?
I feel like the Astartes, or at least the Primarchs, would have been eliminated and replaced when the webway was finished. The Emperor seemed to have everything laid out in phases and the Astartes/Primarchs were tailored to the crusade. With the webway completed he'd almost certainly wage war on Chaos, meaning he'd want something less corruptible than the Primarchs. Probably less powerful too. It'd also explain why he never informed them about the dangers of Chaos. That wasn't their war.
Actually, now I think about it the Primarchs being built up as legendary figures amongst the Astartes then meeting a similar fate to the Thunder Warriors would make sense in a war against Chaos. The Primarchs were so important to the Astartes that their corruption caused legions to turn against the Emperor. That's a good reason to kill them off on it's own, but by making their deaths heroic sacrifices to save the Imperium from Chaos the Astartes would become borderline incorruptible. I mean they'd have to betray humanity, the Emperor AND the memory of a Primarch they were willing to sell their souls for.
I doubt that he will dispose of the primarchs, or at least all of them. Many of them had skills beyond fighting, so I think they will more likely take a more desk styled job and only the most warrioring and bloodthirsty of the legions and primarchs can be seen as disposable. I agree that he will likely science himself a new army to fight the chaos forces(probably very physically active), with the astartes becoming more as a specialised reserve force.
Hmmm,not really. Consider that in each traitor legion entire companies were still loyal to the emperor and were the first to be slaughtered by Horus
That would never have happened as the Emperor loved his sons as any normal father would. The reason the Thunder Warriors were killed was because they were too bloodthirsty and could never adapt to a time of peace. Each primarch in their own way was a major leader on their adopted homeworld and would have used their talents to benefit the Imperium by taking active roles in governancein peacetime. The only exceptions would be Angron, Konrad Curze, and Pertubao, as they were all too savage or personality-wise unsuitable to adapt to peace. The Emperor's love of his children is clearly shown when he hesitated to kill Horus even after Horus was directly responsible for the death of trillions, devestated several astartes legions, and turned to Chaos. If the Emperor was hesitant to kill one of his own sons after that there is no way he would ever do it without provocation. Most likely the primarchs would have stayed as chief rulers of the Imperium in its day to day affairs while leading a grand crusade against Chaos.
It's true that many of them had peace time skills, but whatever was meant to come next clearly wasn't going to be peaceful. Regardless of how it was meant to play out that seems like they were given those traits specifically to strengthen the bond between the Astartes and their Primarchs rather than to take on those roles in a peaceful society. It makes their role in the Astartes go beyond command structure and into the cultural side of the Chapters. Their peace time skills were part of what escalated their status to almost that of mythological deities. Look at the way they adopt their Primarchs traits and philosophies. The Astartes were engineered not just to be powerful but to be idolised by the Astartes. It was the closest thing he could give them to a God without breaking the Imperial Truth. Manipulate the Astartes so they believe that their deity Primarch died fighting Chaos and suddenly you've got a group of Space Marines that can resist Chaos enough to actually fight against it.
David Maybe he never planned to fight Chaos directly with the Astartes. After all if Lorgar was never corrupted by Erebus and Horrus never rebelled then the Great Crusade could have continued as planned. With Humanity united in a peaceful realm and the Imperial Truth spread then Chaos would be powerless to spread amongst the galaxy. As it was only the heresy that gave Chaos power once more and the Emperor never foresaw Horrus turning traitor or else he would have made Sanginius or Roboute become warmaster. Also just as it was mentioned in the video, if worship of the Emperor did spread rapidly in a non-heresy galaxy then either the Emperor could have been elevated to godship or a new god would have been created in the ideal of the Emperor and would have been powerful enough to combat Chaos directly within the warp. While creating the Astartes and Primarchs the Emperor removed all traits that would have compromised them in peacetime as the Thunder Warriors did. The Primarchs were essentially the Emperor's legacy who would have ruled the day-to-day operations of the Imperium while the Emperor handled the greater picture.
Thank you everyone for your birthday wishes!We hope to produce more content for you for a long long time! *hands out cake made by the Emperor himself*
Does the cake contain a little bit of Sigmar's essence?
Btw happy birthday :3
Remleiz, I think you should do a collab with Alternative History Hub on this topic, since the Horus Heresy itself was quite an intricate chain of events, with lots of starting points, i.e. Lorgar, Fulgrim,..(im still reading up on the series). The alternation of such points of origin would have had a variety of consequences unfolding in subsequent events, which in turn might have had a multitude of possible outcomes themselves.
I'd love to do that
Praise the Man-Emperor of Mankind!
In Regards to the butchers nails killing Angron, I'll admit it's something I simply forgot, but that being said, at the time of the Heresy Angron had the nails in his head for centuries at this point. While it would eventually kill him, we do not know If it would take a few more decades, centuries or millennia to do so.
what if said nails were removed?
Ethan Barrett He would die. They cant be removed without killing him.
who is to say he would even die? With empy still around, he could put his mind to the task of solving that issue as well, possibly saving angron. . Id say its too hard of a thing to speculate on.
It was pretty much confirmed as such in the Butchers Nails audio drama.
I may be imagining this, but I am sure that somewhere in the 30k lore it is hinted that Magnus given enough time may have been able to remove them?
Dammit, Lorgar, you just had to go any ruin everything, and happy birthday!
Since i am new to 40K i could be wrong about this, but wouldn't the Emperor still being alive and ruling mean that humanity could be a little bit more tolerant to Xenos races? While of course the Emperor wanted Humanity to remain as the dominant power in the Galaxy, i think he would have been fine with Xenos existing as long as they didn't attack humanity and accepted Imperial rule. After all because of the turmoil and religious dogma in the Post-Heresy years, Humans wiped out alot of Xenos species before they could prove their intentions, based on past conflict with more violent species and generations of xenophobia. Obviously Eldar would never be allowed to rise back up but the Tau could have joined the Imperium as the Imperial Truth does share some similarities to the greater good.
yeahhhh, kinda. In the lore, both horus (with the mostly human Interex civilization) and fulgrim (with the eldar) had relatively civil meetings until with horus, Erebus of the word bearers stole a chaos weapon from them while the interex were still suspecting the warmaster to be chaos tainted.
Similarly with fulgrim, it went peacefully with the eldar until they recognized the slaaneshi Laer xenos blade he carried and attacked him.
Without the influence of chaos yeah it *could* get along with other races, but only as non-incorporated subject states probably, I doubt they would go as far as like incorporating them into higherarchy like the interex did using xenos soldiers, or similar to the tau using kroot.
Probably the non-heresy imperium would just ask them to pay tithes for independent governance as long as they didn't pose a threat.
I could definitely see a human-eldar-tau vs chaos and tyrranids and necrons happening, but not in the same universe.
There was a Xenos race once, awfully similair to humans and wanting to cooperate... But then Fulgrim happened. No. There wont be tolerance under the Imperial rule.
I got the impression he wasn't xenophobic but he did consider xeno races/empires being allowed to potentially prosper a threat to humanity. Even if they're not a direct threat they'd be considered an accident waiting to happen. That seems pretty in line with his line of thinking when 'uniting' humanity. Everything that's not with him is against us.
Prime Tyrant he meant if the heresy never happened and they werent chaos corruption
*"wouldn't the Emperor still being alive and ruling mean that humanity could be a little bit more tolerant to Xenos races?"*
Are you implying the Emperor is *not* alive, citizen? Would you kindly come to the local Inquisition office to talk with us for a bit?
Imagine how freaky it would be if suddenly, the emperor started breathing, like heart attack breathing, panicing, like "OH NO, I'M HERE! AAH!! AAAHH!"
PRAISE THE EMPEROR !!! 40k theories has completed its first teran year .
In the Bright Light of the far future, there's only glory
It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has led the great crusade to unify the lost worlds of mankind. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is the lord of humanity leading a glorious conquest in the name of progress. He is the greatest commander of the Imperium for whom a thousand armies march every day, to bring his unifying truth uppon the wayward worlds of the galaxy.
Yet even in his glorious march, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance . Mighty battlefleets cross through the safe haven that is the human webbway, the best guarded route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of his mightiest pysker son Magnus the Red. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. All their multitudes, they are enough to fend off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.
To be a man in such times is to be one under his undying will. It is to live in the mightiest and most glorious regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. venerate the power of technology and science, for so much has been renewed and found, to guide the way of mankind. venerate the promise of progress and understanding, for in the bright shining future there is only Glory. There's a life of conquest amongst the stars, an eternity of service and faith, and the benevolence of god Emperor of mankind.
True loyalist
This comment is Underrated as fuck. This is basically the good ending to 40k
HAPPY BIRTHDAY! Big thanks Remleiz to your dedication and work you do for us!
I agree with most of the things mentioned except that I would think that the Emperor would actually make peace with the Eldar instead of purging them. In fact I would even say that the Emperor would actually realize the threat that Slaneesh presents to the Eldar and would go as far to assist them in combating her influence. Since Slaneesh is said to be the weakest of the Chaos gods.
I could also imagine the Emperor would return to the portal on Molech where he made the deal with the Chaos gods and call them out to uphold their part of the bargain they struck. Which could go to whatever direction from there depending on what that bargain was. A contest between the Emperor and the Chaos gods to tempt the Primarchs, which the Emperor clearly won. Or whatever it was.
I also would not think that the Tyranids would simply drift pas the Milky Way, considering in the original canon we never saw the completion of the Golden Throne, it could very well be possible that the Tyranids would still notice the psychic emanation of the Milky Way.
I would even think that the Chaos Gods themselves, having no other option, would go far enough to engineer a scheme to purposely draw the Tyranids to the Milky Way. For them resulting "chaos"(pun intended) that will result because of the the Tyranid invasion would give them ample opportunities to spread their influence, since the Imperium would be mostly focused on fighting the Tyranids. In your theory the Chaos gods seem to have surrendered to their fate but I would doubt they would give up so easily.
"The following video is sponsored by Kromlech."
*GRIMDARK MUSIC INTENSIFIES*
congrats 40k theories. Ironically this is a subject that I've been thinking about alot lately while I've been working on my homebrew's back story.
The nearness to the idea of "Everything *could* have turned out totally fine" is what makes 40k so Grimdark. -Inhales deeply- Mmmmm-MMMMM! I loovvvve it.
happy birthday
Thank you ^_^
Wait, is this the same guy who voices the palace techno-priest from "If the Emperor had a text-to-speech Device"?
Happy Birthday ! (late but still)
Spoilers to those who have not read the beginning of the HH :
Thinking of the "What if... No HH" : what about the Interex ? It would have probably survived, and be re-unified with the Imperium of Mankind, since no one would have stolen the Anathema and started the War of the Interex. And with the Interex alive, we could presume the Gods of Chaos would have stood no chance against humanity, the Interex forming new groups to scout out the roots of heresy before it even appear. With the Imperium strenghtened by the counsels of the Interex, Emprah himself may have accepted the existence of some xeno species (what of the Tau, just for example ?), while the Necrons would have swiftly be discovered and destroyed, and the eldar would have lost the advantage of their own webway, humanity having its own...
But, sad thing for me : the Sisters of Battle and the Inquisition would not be as faithful nuns with guns / grimdark as they are today : they would not have been any Age of Apostasy... :)
happy birthday! here's to many more to come!
By the name of the Emperor I wish you happy birthday 40k Theories and also to you Remleiz !
All things considered, I dont think the Emperor would've seen the Eldar as a big threat, in fact, with Necrons being assholes and Dark Eldar on the loose, there probably could've been an alliance, at least for some time until they both get sick of each other.
The Eldar would have been a threat because The Imperium would be able ot get into the Webway and mostl ikely Big Had the intention ot take it over to make it safe for Humankind
only other option woudl be the eldar quitting being snobby with the "leser" races and be open to diplomacy that woudl benefit both parties
Happy anniversary to one of the most interesting lore channels on RUclips!
Thank you ^_^
While listening to Pharos I noticed something: The demon helping the Nightlords invade the actual structure talks about it being a weapon that would one day be used against the Neverborn.
When the Pharos actually overloads it attracts the attention of a race that seems to actually be incorruptible by chaos and that has only one goal:
Noming the entire Galaxy which leads to all biomass being converted into more of said incorruptible swarm of Space-Locusts.
Could it be that the Tyranids themselves where some kind of ant-chaos bioweapon? Possibly engineered but never used by (a faction) of Old Ones.
Really good anniversary video!
Happy Birthday 40K Theories
Thank you so much for the great videos. I listen to them without fail when painting my Guard and Templars. Please keep up the good work. HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
Happy bday 40k theories love your vids man
One year old huh? Happy birthday and may there be many more to follow. Also thanks for the info on the 40k universe. Hope to learn much more from your channel Remleiz.The Emperor protects.
Thank you ^_^
Happy Birthday 40k videos!! i hope you get a hundred thousand and i hope a million suscribers by the end of the year.
I personally think Conrad Kurze could have been saved if Fulgrim had not betrayed his confidence to Dorn.
It may be a long and hard path, but the trick would be to give him hope.
you sometimes end with we here at 40k theories who are the others and thanks so much for all your content
Congratulations and may his golden light shine upon you for another year and many after
Thank you ^_^
Happy birthday, 40k Theories!
If the Heresy never occurred:
1: The webway would be completed by the Emperor. Magnus accidentally destroyed it in order to warn the Emperor of the Heresy.
2: There would be no Inquisition or at least it would of taken much longer to establish.
3: Horus would be dead. In being healed by the Davinite priests from his mortal wounds he was then at that time tainted by chaos.
4: Lorgar would have further been censured for his further curiosity into chaos. Lorgar would most likely even be executed by the hands of Russ for this violation.
5. The Edict of Nikea would never have passed. With no heresy to warn the Emperor over, Magnus would of never destroyed the webway and thus the Emperor would of never taken such a hard stance on psykers.
I've been following your channel for a while now. I love your content. keep it up, man.
This is one of the things I like to see in the 40k universe, to let humanity's golden age return and they prosper. This can be long, so bear with me:
I agree about Konrad Curze and the Night Lords turn renegade and would be subject to extermination due to them now being a threat to the Imperium. Several legions have been dispatched to dispose of him and his legion, but who? I like to think that Roboute Guiliman, Fulgrim, Corvus Corax, Leman Russ, Sanguinius, Rogal Dorn, maybe even Angron and their legions were sent (without Horus as let's say give the other legions a chance to shine).
The question is how can Angron be satiated due to the Butcher's Nails? Let's not forget that Angron despises the Emperor for having his comrades die after he was being "rescued". Two scenarios can happen:
1 - They could put him into a seemingly never-ending battle against the Orks and Necrons to satiate their bloodthirsty needs.
2 - His brothers Roboute and Fulgrim would be worried about the Butcher's Nails driving him insane and slowly coming closer to death, so they devise a plan to have him sedated and remove the Butcher's Nails from him. Maybe implant him with something else so that he could become no longer this raging berserker of a giant and be a better person (remember, Angron's original personality was lost due to the Butcher's Nails). A different Angron would remove his legion of the Butcher's Nails to be more effective. Of course Angron would still be this formidable Primarch who loves battles.
Then there's Lorgar: the reason Lorgar turned to Chaos was because the Emperor rebuked him. Perhaps the Emperor have come down and have a nice chat with Lorgar before he would go down that path. Maybe the Emperor knew that doing this, since the Emperor knew about that Chaos gods, he would prevent Lorgar from falling to Chaos.
Altogether, humanity would live and prosper in a new golden age. Perhaps also the great technologies and knowledge from back then would slowly be reclaimed. Xenos incursions would still happen, but the Imperium has the edge over them. Chaos gods would lose their influence and are deprived of the servants they need.
Happy anniversary Remleiz
Congratulations on the one year anniversary.
I was one of the first subscibers. I love this channel. happy birthday
Same. I hope you keep up the great theories!
I've been watching your videos for quite some time, still a loyal fan. keep up the great work, friend. congrats on the channel!
Thank you ^_^
Hmm very nice theory Riemlez! (I think I spelt that wrong, hope he doesn't notice.) Also congrats on this channel's very first anniversary! It has grown a lot since it first started, I have a question to ask though. Ultrima Empire? What is this that you speak off? Also I wonder if and/or when the Illuminati will appear in one of your video's, about what I don't know but it would certainly be cool to talk about. Them and the Sensei's, also Eldar Exodites would be cool too, those guys never get any love or attention for some reason.
The illuminati and Sensei will appear at some point yes :)
And the Ultramar empire was the 500 worlds that the Ultramarines rule over
40K Theories Oh really? Yes! Not well known lore = best lore! Oh no wonder I couldn't find it, I spelt the darn thing wrong! I have a tendency to do that, so this is kinda like a little sub faction (or state sec might be a more appropriate term to use) within the Imperium? Do more exist? Presumbly for the other Primarch Astartes, the successor chapters most likely wouldn't get these type of 'governance' bestowed upon them.
Well done on the milestone, thanks.
Thank you
My take on what would happen to the legions if the Heresy was averted.
World Eaters: I picture them becoming an fleet-based legion, but Angron would be dead. Kharn might take up the role to lead his legion.
Night Lords: These are the guys I picture being disbanded, albeit for a few exceptions here and there. Though I think some would become pirates instead.
Word Bearers: I picture some of these guys being like the Swiss Guard, defending holy locations.
Alpha Legion: The founders of Imperial Intelligence.
Iron Warriors: I picture them being the construction guys you'd see on Imperial colonies, helping other worlds become functional Hive Worlds.
Happy birthday and keep up the good work! :D
I think some sort of a civil war between the legions would still happen. There was enough rivalry between the primarchs. Perturabo and Dorn, Sanguinius and Angron, Corax and Curze and so on. Although if the emperor was still around, he could've done something against it.
hey rem happpppy one year brother. I've been with you almost from the start I think and you have got better and better I hope your back is better. and you're doing great .
Awwww happy birthday!!! I love your content!
Happy Birthday
Happy birthday!
Counterintuitive as it might sound I actually think that the
Imperium would be worse off in the long run without the Heresy.
Firstly, various Primarchs are ticking time-bombs. Leaving aside their
interpersonal rivalries and squabbles, which poses a threat to Imperial
stability in and of itself, Lion el Johnson thinks that he should be top
Primarch, Magnus still has an obsession with eldrich lore, Angron has anger
management issues and is slowly being killed by the butchers' nails (and his
death will likely cause his legion to go berserk), Lorgar takes his religion
way too seriously and is inevitably going to come into conflict with the
Imperial Truth (unless the TL involves him renouncing religion, in which case
there are still going to be elements in his legion that hold to the old ways),
Khan personally considered the Emperor to be a tyrant and only refused to join
the Horus Heresy because he saw Chaos as being worse, Curze is a bloody
psychopath, and Ferrus Manus is far too close to the AdMech (which is another
problem I'll touch on later) and literally has necrons for hands. Also, some of
the nicer Primarchs like Sanguinius and Vulkan, who are more idealistic, have
the potential to become disillusioned and maybe even rebel if the Imperium
starts going south, which I think it will.
Add to that the fact that without the Heresy you don’t have
the military reforms in place to prevent the concentration of power that
resulted in the Heresy being as damaging as IOTL, particularly with regards to
the Legions. As a result, if a Primarch goes rouge that means that they’re able
to take a lot of firepower with them.
Secondly, with the construction of the Imperial Webway, the Imperium becomes an
existential threat to the entire Eldar race. Given how much of a threat the
Eldar are to the Imperium IOTL, it’s worth bearing in mind that they aren’t
unified, are only using a fraction of their potential military might (only a
fraction of the Craftworld Eldar follow the path of the warrior, whilst the
Dark Eldar are engaged in sporadic pirate raids for shits and giggles rather
than with any overarching military strategy), and they aren’t actively trying
to wage an all-out war with the Imperium.
With the Imperium spreading into the Webway, however, you
suddenly have the impetus for the various Eldar factions, both Craftworld,
Dark, Harlequins, and Exodite, to unite and mobilise. Furthermore, given that
the Eldar’s war goals will be to destroy the Imperium’s ability to wage war
against them, rather than to conquer or subjugate the Imperium, they’re going
to be waging an asymmetrical war focused on destroying the Imperium’s
infrastructure. Bearing in mind that when it comes to interplanetary warfare it’s
far easier to destroy or depopulate a planet than it is to conquer it, and that
IOTL the Eldar are more than happy to sacrifice billions of humans to save
thousands of Eldar, I imagine that Eldar tactics would involve performing hit
and run attacks with planet busters and other WMDs. Furthermore, when it comes
to fighting in the Webway, they have the home advantage knowing it much better
than the Imperium does, as well as also having the Laughing God on their side.
And that’s just the conventional warfare; given that the
Eldar are masters of manipulation and covert ops I imagine that they’ll be
pulling out all the stops on that front too: assassinating the Imperium’s
greatest military geniuses whilst they’re still children whilst manipulating
affairs so that incompetent buffoons keep getting appointed to high office,
offering support and assistance to rebels within the Imperium and the various
other Xenos empires at war with the Imperium, redirecting Ork Waaaghs into
Imperial space, and uplifting minor Xenos races like the Tau (assuming they
were behind their rise and/or have the ability to that to other races), to name
but a few of the tricks up their sleeves.
Thirdly, you have the Adeptus Mechanicus. Inevitably they’re
going to come into conflict with the Imperium, both due to the fact that the
religious nature of the AdMech conflicts with the Imperial Truth and I’m fairly
sure that the Emperor’s long-term plan for the Imperium doesn’t involve
allowing a cult that may or may not worship an eldritch abomination having a
monopoly on all technology, as well as the fact that, without the Schism of
Mars, there are still going to be a lot of techpriests that resent the Emperor’s
interference in their religion. So sooner or later war will break out between
them, which is bad news for the Imperium given that the AdMech has access to a
pretty significant military, including the Titan Legions, controls the Geneseed
stockpiles, control the major industrial centres of the Imperium, are responsible
for training the Techmarines who are now a potential fifth column within the Astartes
Legions, and that their largest and most powerful Forge World is in the same
system as Terra.
When that fight breaks out, the best case scenario for the
Imperium is that they are able to take Mars, which is likely to be a long and
brutal fight which will probably give the AdMech time to sabotage the Geneseed
stocks which is going to hurt the Imperium’s ability to reproduce Astartes,
after which they’re probably going to face further rebellions from Forge Worlds
across the Imperium, whilst also fighting the Eldar. Furthermore, once war
breaks out between the Imperium and the AdMech, it is possible that Ferrus
Manus might defect to the AdMech, giving them a full Astartes Legion (two if he’s
able to convince Fulgrim to join him given how close they were).
The worst case scenario, however, is that during the fighting the Imperial Webway nexus on Terra is destroyed, resulting in the Sol System getting engulfed in a giant warp rift, and as a result, Mars and Terra are destroyed. This means that Magnus is dead along with any other VIPs in Sol at the time (which may or may not include the Emperor), the administrative heart of the Imperium is gone, any military assets within the Sol system that the Imperium could call upon are now gone, the Imperium will have lost their main gateway into the Webway, if not their access in general, the Astronomican is gone, meaning that the Imperium won’t be able to fall back on conventional warp travel so easily, the Dragon of Mars could be unleashed, which could lead to the Necrons arising earlier, and Segmuntum Solar now has a great big warp rift in the middle of it spilling forth all sorts of gribbley warp horrors into the
heart of the Imperium. The Imperium and the AdMech are likely to blame each
other for this disaster and declare all-out war on each other, and if things
get really bad the AdMech might start worshipping the Necrons and Ctan.
Finally, the shockwave caused by Sol getting engulfed by a warp rift is likely to
have the same effect that the destruction of the Pharos had in terms of
attracting the Tyrannids (although with the way things are going there might
not be anything left for them to eat when they arrive).
happy birthday day, love the channel
Thank you ^_^
Happy birthday to your channel!
Hell yes
Nice video man !
I think one thing that wouldn't go the way you stated here is Konrad. Without the Heresy looming in his visions Konrad would be much less unstable, and would most likely be able to keep a better control of himself. Though I do see a small civil war in his legion eventually due to the criminals from Nostromo needing to be purged.
In other words, it's all fucking Horus' fault!
Wrong...it's all Magnus' fault!!!
And this is how chaos works..... :D
Magnus was a loyal son that was betrayed because of Horus's fuckery... It's still all Horus' fault!
Magnus fumbled at dealnig with a critical issue, the instigator was still Horus(more accurately Lorgar)
have you read "aurelian" or "the first heretic"
Alpharius Omegon would still remain a mystery, the Grey Knights may not appear, and the Eye of Terror would shrink to the size of a black hole or small star. PS. Happy anniversary.
Happy Imperial birthday, may you bring more speculation to the Imperium
Happy birthday.. love the videos..
Happy birthday
Happy birthday :) I wish you many more subs and great theories or other videos to come!
Officially Angron had ~100 years to live at the time of the Heresy. In fact his falling to chaos sped up the damage the nails were doing to his brain and had Lorgar not turned him into a demon prince he would have died on Nuceria.
Also you ignore the 20 chambers prepared under the Himalayas by the emperor himself near the end of the Crusade and the growing powers of the high lords of terra as the cursade expanded. The primarchs were never meant to rule and the realization of that fact is one of the reasons behind Horus fall to chaos.
Tho accoding ot the lore Maguns had a higher purpose, he was the one that apparently woudl Man the Golden throne once the webway project was finished.
I think Curze and Angron would have been in their element against Orks/Necrons respectively. An enemy that has little fear would cause Konrad to put full effort into them and Angron would have battle eternal against creatures that can't really die
In the totally chill times of the 40th millennia . There’s not much goin on man. We’re just chillin
Dunno about Tyranids just ignoring Milky Way, intergalactic travel is absolutely no joke even by 40k standards. And Tyranids arriving when they did almost guarantees Milky Way was their target all along. This energy release thingy just feels like someone trying to fight the whole Lovecraftian theme of Tyranids by giving humanity an active role in the Tyranid invasion, and/or you just lazily using this to write tyranids off to make up a lighter future for this alternative 40k.
On another note, if Tyranids never targeted Milky Way, Necrons wouldn't start waking up so early and individual tombs would just be found and disturbed once in a while at most.
I prefer when it was the Astronomican that drew them to the galaxy.
Magnus would still be practicing his wrap-crafts behind the Emperor's back. The council of Nikaea would still have taken place. However Russ later would be ordered to take Magnus alive and to return him to Terra for censure. Even without Horus Hersey, Magnus would be the only one who turned to Chaos eventually because of Tzeentch's plan.
Remember there are quite a few Satellite Galaxies of the Milky way meaning there is still a lot of conquest to do.
Happy 1st Birthday 40K Theories
Thank you ^_^
Np :P
I feel like the elder would eventually Allie with the imperium with the help of Guilliman (because of his eldar “girl” friend) and possibly Magnus strengthening the imperium even more and the imperium helping the eldar getting more spirit stone
Great video, really enjoyed it. As for my own thoughts; even if we presumed that the majority of the traitor primarchs did not fall, I think that it was inevitable that Lorgar would have turned to Chaos, unless for some reason the Emperor did not chastise the Word Bearers with planetary destruction as he did in the novels. The difference would be that the Word Bearers would perhaps have been the only legion to fall, and thus would have been relatively well contained and destroyed by the combined forces of the rest of the Astartes legions if they had been unable to whisper their traiterous thoughts to some of the others.
excellent - really enjoyed that
Sound was kinda strange this episode.
Regarding the content, it brings me to one question I asked myself a while ago:
"What if X was Warmaster instead?"
And this means everything goes equally until that point in history, including the fall of Lorgar (which I imagined you kept as a thing when you said no OTHER Primarchs fell).
And when I asked myself the question X was Perturabo. I feel that as the Emperor secluded away and Lorgar approached the Warmaster to try and corrupt him, the Word Bearers would have been murdered on the spot. Perturabo would insta-murder Lorgar and declare his legion traitors. He would then instill a military siege state galaxy-wide and until the Emperor came back the galaxy would've experienced much of the oppression that happens in M40 during that time instead. There could be civil war with the likes of Sanguinius, Corvus, Guillotine and potentially Horus not seeing eye to eye with the Warmaster but once the Emperor came back I feel as if Perturabo would be immediately dismissed from his post and would be offered some atonement. He would be likely to engage in some suicide mission instead of his own accord and the Emperor would have to pick up the pieces and mend peace in the Imperium and between the legions
if only sanguinius became warmaster shit would have stayed well, he would destroy lorgar as soon as they try to corrupt him
+TerranGaming I don't know, I think Lorgar would not approach Warmaster Pidgeotto to try and corrupt him
+Vile Lasagna well they tried it in the heresy as well so he might have done so
TerranGaming But by then he already had Horus and Fulgrim and a few more friends, didn't he? If Sanguinius was warmaster things might be more difficult for Lorgar, I think. What makes Perturabo interesting imo is that I think Lorgar would rush to try and get him on his side and it would backfire spectacularly.
It's honestly an interesting conjecture to speculate on =P
the one that left infrastructure and proper functioning planets behind where the ultra smurfs
Speaking of Lorgar's Book and preaching, the Emperor probably would have killed or expunged Lorgar as the Emperor personally beat his ass, blew up his planet, and forced the rest of the survivors and Legion to swear fealty to the Ultra Smurfs.
I'm glad your channel has been posting videos, because without them, I wouldn't know anything about the Warhammer 40k universe 🍭🍰🍭
Hbd im really new onto 40k but its so amazing the work you have done this far Gz!! Keep up the good work love from ColombiaAn Ultramarines fan
Doubling the size of the space marines or their legions is not supposed to make a difference. With Ork wars, Tyranid swarms, Eldar brigades and Necron hordes, the feeling of despair and hopelessness would still be a big theme with or without the Emperor and the loss to chaos. And the chaos Gods would grow weak, but they could in theory, still pose a threat even though the Webway was completed.
Well the tyranids would still come to our galaxy as something it's very unlikely that many other galaxies would of had a similar incident. And there's a theory that the tyranids were made by the old ones as a way to wipe the slate clean and start again. The biggest fret to in my mind would be the Kroot, as you could imagine space marines would slowly kill them off, but later on the Kroot would evolve into stealthy version of them. And the scary thing is the Kroot could always get a sample of a primarch or Emperor's blood, and then we'll have an army of creatures as powerful as the Emperor. The Necrons would also poses a big fret, they could make more pariahs that would weaken the Emperor.
Have you read "The Nightmare Still To Come"? It tells a potential history of the 42nd-51st Millennium, for some examples: The Golden Throne fails and the Astronomicon is snuffed out; every imperial world, starship, army and citizen has been basically orphaned. The Orks invade(and take) Comorragh and several Craftworlds through the Webway, The Tyranids are swatted away by an Ork/Tyranid hybrid species called "The New Devourer" and devours most of the galactic North-East, The Tau embrace several imperial worlds into their fold. Huron and Abaddon basically carve out an empire with little to no pushback, etc etc
In the process of doing so :)
What about the Necrons?
Basically they all wake up, and by the 51st Millennium all of the Star Gods are awake and are reaping several worlds of life, The Mechanicus who viewed the Void Dragon as their God align themselves with the Necrons who pledged themselves to that particular C'tan and is basically the only form of resistance against Abaddons "Tidal Wave" of Terror pouring through the Eye of Terror. The other 2 C'tan wake up and start reaping whats left of whatever Order there is in the galaxy, They're the only Race who can push back against the New Devourer. The Grimdarkness of the 41st Millennium is nothing compared to The Nightmare of the 51st.
HAPPY BIRTH DAY!!!!!
happy birthday theories.
Thank you ^_^
We would have most likely had something akin to a "Lorgar Heresy", during which Konrad would have turned from the Emperor albeit maybe not joining the newborn Chaos cult.
Civil war anyway, despite in "smaller" (or less titanical) proportions than the Horus Heresy, with the Night Lords going rampant on both factions and non other than Horus himself, along with Sanguinius and/or Magnus, trying to bring their lost brothers back into the light without further bloodshed.
I could see Lorgar try to force Horus to join him just to fail because of the intervention of Sanguinius (or Magnus, or both) and, in the aftermath the two fighting to the death in a similar fashion to what canonically happened during the fight on the Vengeful Spirit in the final stage of the "true" Heresy.
Horus/Sanguinius/Magnus dies to bring down Lorgar the archtraitor, and one of the remaining individuals falls to the Night Haunter as he kills the maddened Curze and end the Night Lord crisis.
Grimdark is love, grimdark is life.
You know, this got me thinking, what if Alternate History Hub did an episode where the Imperium discovered our earth before and/after the Horus Heresy.
Well the geographic landscape of Terra and our earth look really different. The ideal locations of Races and cultures are in the relative same spot.
bit difficult since Earth Was the birthplace of the Imperium, Big E was born there
The tyranids would still be in the Galaxy, there was a hive fleet in the milky way galaxy prior to the emperor's conception if I'm not mistaken, in 28,000 if I'm remembering correctly, it's simply the bulk of the tyranids that came into the Galaxy after that incident.
Also Happy Birthday.
Don't forget that the chapters of ALL the space marines would be standing against the Tyranid swarm.
Congratulations
I'm not sure Lorgar could be tolerated by the antitheistic Emperor. But, more than that, I want to know your theory on what would've happened if Angron either never got the Butcher's Nail, or if his legion had dropped in on his final battle on his homeworld rather than him being teleported up away from it.
Both of them are on my list :)
I feel like while the "Heresy" wouldn't have happened a smaller scale but potentially organized rebellion would be inevitable. Certain things like Angron's rage, the Night Lords' psychopathy and Perturabo's being a salty bitch would cause them to go over the edge at some point.
Happy B-day bby!
I believe that once The Human Webway would be finished, The Emperor would slowly decline in the investment of the Adeptus Astartes. The reason being it would be much more practical to invest a thousand resources in a thousand Solar Auxilia, the Imperial Guard before the Horus Heresy, than just one Space Marine who may die in his first battle.
1 Astarties is worth 1000 imperial guard. I agree the astarties would have funding and power deminished but they would never be extinguished like the thunder warriors
+The Eternal Chronicler I agree he'd that he'd reduce investment in space marines. The emporium would need occupation forces not new marines. Keep in mind that Web Way allows for free travel between world's. Granting a significant boost to man kinds knowledge, culture and communication. Space Marines would become old tech very quickly. To steal a Quote from the Martian man kind could "science the fuck" out of any problem it ran into.
I do think that while yes the astartes overall would be reduced overall, they would still always keep their numbers at full strength but the majority would be put into stasis while a small amount would be kept awake to carry out the orders of the primarchs and the Emperor. This is so that in case shit hits the fan the numbers will be there and ready because it still takes years to make an astartes.
+The Morrigan That's why they would have the Adeptus Custodes, by comparing the Adeptus Custodes to the Adeptus Astartes. The Adeptus Custodes are much better Space Marines, because they're the finished design. The Adeptus Astartes however, are more useful because they would be much simpler to make.
The Emperor would still keep the Adeptus Custodes, due to them being the very best of the best. Whilst the Adeptus Astartes would decline in production, as they would have already out lived their usefulness.
he wouldnt discontinue the astartes mostl ikely
if anything once the webway project was finished he could start a new stage of the Great Crusade since humanity would not have access to everythnig the Webway is able ot reach
for this he might even comission himself and the brightest minds to perfect the Astartes conversion process to ensure he would have the manpower on his elite forces ot campagin against the Eldar and Necron
if EMps decomissions the Astartes it would most likely be in favor of either The Imperial guard(with approriate upgrades), or Turn the Custodes into the New legions since they seem ot be a perfected version of the astartes
Good job man
0:40 your attempt of happiness
Do you think that the Imperial Truth, possible access to the Black Library, and the diligence of the Emperor and the Primarchs would have been able to contribute to maintaining or regaining, or even eventually UNDERSTANDING the Standard Template Constructs?
Chaos gods wouldn't die as their power isn't from being worshiped but by acts in the mortal world nurgle feeds on death and decay which would still happen, slannesh feeds on pleasure even in the smallest degree, the list goes on for all the gods