ladies and gen this is your capt. speaking... I just want to let you all know our breaks is working normally.... next on the list of things need to be check is take off....
Me! Not on that flight, but I'm one of those staring out every window to make sure nothing going to hit us, and watching to make sure Pilot puts those darn flaps down! Must have been of more concern than those pilots of 4 airliners were willing to express when that Canadian Airlines was heading straight for them on the taxiway recently.
Varun Gupta Well, it isn‘t that bad if you *know* you‘re going to take off without flaps, because then you can adjust Vrotate and aim for a higher climb speed. If you just forget to set flaps, you‘ll try to climb out at a low speed and steep angle of attack that cannot sustain enough lift without flaps. Add to that maybe a little ice on the wings, an inattentive PIC or an engine that doesn‘t run at full power and you‘re headed for desaster.
If I were a passenger on Delta 873, I'd be a bit upset at the delay, but eternally grateful to not have perished in an enormous fireball at the end of Runway 27R at ATL. Better late than dead.
Think that they didn't know what was happening and probably the pilot told "we had a problem at the aircraft" so they were worried for the entire flight
Shit happens, however, it SHOULDN'T happen... But hey, the important thing was that he sorted it out.. Respect to the controller, immediately claiming responsibility for the mistake.
One day, they will simply computerise all of that... The pilot (or most likelly the copilot) will just press the "ready to takeoff" button or "go to the gate" or "request holding position" and the computers will tell them what to do and where to go. No more issue... Will happend probably sooner than we think and hope...
Fantastic job on both sides of the radio. The controller quickly realized and corrected his mistake and genuinely owned up to it. The pilot was kind and did not sound the least bit annoyed or put off.
Everyone's just trying to do their job and help keep the aviation wheel turning. There's no malice if a mistake is made, so I'm glad they just took the accepted the situation they were now in and worked to move forward
definitely both stressful in their own respects, although I would say at busy airports, there are way more lives on the line for an ATCO! Coordinating with so many people and directing them so they do not crash I feel is much harder than managing a cockpit-- there are extreme instances where pilot is DEFINITELY more stressful , but at least its only their plane and passengers they're worrying about and not hundreds of others in busy traffic; Pilot has copilot and other staff on most commercial jet flights too. But hey, when lives are on the line, any job can be stressful !!
Lanzini LaJoya never said they would blindly crash I know it's up to pilots for the safety of their craft; but I could not imagine LA Intl, for example, be run safely without ATC especially in bad weather conditions on a holiday ... This whole thing is just opinion . But I for one am more of a cockpit guy over the tower desk any day !
*You could say that, but it's not like aircraft would suddenly crash if ATC didn't exist* At busy ones they sure would. The development of the modern ATC system over several decades came as a result of several tragedies that showed how ineffective "see and avoid" and lax control measures were. All this thing about pilots are like god raptor incarnate misses the point that a pilot is a pilot, of one vehicle. Typically he points his nose at a part of the sky, tells ATC and they make it work around him if he has a problem. ATC gets into a mess and you have a cascade of issues going out not just from the one guy but into all the adjacent guys too. ATC is far more complex and the threshold for danger is severe at a single slip of the tongue. Anytime pilots make severe errors that put their planes in jeopardy its usually a collection of human errors and technical faults. Pilots not setting takeoff flaps and stalling on take off means failing to do multiple pre takeoff checks, a takeoff warning fuse being pulled and to boot being badly prepared to handle a stall in that situation. Meanwhile ATL TWR says "take off" when he shouldn't and if he blinks for a few seconds longer that's potentially 50-300 dead right there. ATL TWR is far more competent than most of the pilots who crash airplanes yet he was far closer to a fatal moment than any god raptor pilot in command. I just think people romanticize the pilot far too much and they want to say its more important a role than it really is, as if nothing will ever be as big, hard, important, stressful, important in any context, at the very least equal usually claimed to be far more important. There will be a fully automated airplane before there's a fully automated ATC system though. If you spend any amount of time listening to ATC feeds you also hear them change people over quite often, especially on busy freqs. No pilot would ever expect or demand that level of relief indicating they're just not facing the same stresses. But yea I know nobody will agree because pilots are still kings of the sky and ATC isn't as sexy a thing to be romanticizing.
that must of been one hell of a brake check.... imagine explaining that to the passengers... Uhhhh. a deer ran out in front of us.. yep. that's what happened
Yeah, *STOP* or *ABORT* seems like would have been more effective instructions to give the pilot. Fortunately, he had good brakes and plenty of distance before the crossing traffic. Though one would have hoped he'd have seen the plane enter the runway and initiated the takeoff abort before being told to be ATC.
The correct phraseology would be „DAL873, stop immediately, DAL873, stop immediately“, as they had already begun their takeoff roll. Still, good reaction. the most important thing is that the pilots understood what he meant and stopped before crashing.
@@matthiaspatzelt3085 Actually looking at the diagram, it had enough runway to take off assuming full capacity and being a MD-90. "Cancel takeoff Clearance" is up to the PIC to decide what to do since they really can't revoke clearance. "Abort Takeoff" would have been a direct order signalling imminent danger that the PIC would have to try to obey.
ibmwxp_zhj ibmwxp_zhj No. The official ICAO phraseology lists HOLD POSITION, CANCEL TAKEOFF CLEARANCE, I SAY AGAIN, CANCEL TAKEOFF CLEARANCE as correct phraseology for canceling takeoff if the aircraft has not yet started its takeoff roll. STOP IMMEDIATELY STOP IMMEDIATELY is used instead if the aircraft is already moving. In neither of those cases has the PIC any decision to make. S/he either holds position or slam the brakes. And of course clearances given can be revoked any time if the situation demands it.
I love how this guy brings in enough of the other ATC conversations to give us a good feel for what was happening over all that day. It appears they were having a rough day in the tower. Another great vid, excellent edit !
I’ve been in a similar situation but I think it was organized like that, the plane to our plane’s right looked like it was about to tbone us but then it just lifted off
Because it was dark outside, the lights on the outline of the plane make it look even scarier, like it was flipping onto us after running parallel while trying to take off. Looked like it did a vertical 180, went inverted and was boutta smash us then when the illusion stopped it looked like the TBone problem
@@RadiantHealer I honestly can't imagine an allowance that would permit at ATC to have an aircraft intersect an active runway just because the departing craft should be above it. The only possible exception I can think of would be if it was a small craft taking off and the distance to reach max V1 plus a controlled slowdown still wouldn't reach the crossing aircraft.
Agreed. You pull it off perfectly for years. Make the takeover in (IIRC Pushing Tin) look rough compared to how you organize the planes. But one time lose your picture of every plane....500 dead is possible. And you know you were the main reason....
@@larrythompson8630 I've always had that thought as well. I could never do a job where a perfectly-understandable mistake could result in such tragedy. When an average Joe, like me, makes a mistake I accidentally lock my keys in my car and have to call a locksmith. If ATC makes a mistake, hundreds of people may lose their lives in a terrifying manner. All the respect in the world to the men and women of ATC because I certainly wouldn't be able to do it. *And yes, I did accidentally lock my keys in my car once*
Hello! First of all, thanks for the huge support on the last Southwest video. At this time is 311 LIKES versus just 1 dis-LIKE. I love you guys and have no words to appreciate enough. Here's a video about a quite bad day for this Atlanta ATC making mistake after mistake. What do you think? We are humans and we are mistaking everyday but... in this aviation sector? How big is the range of error an ATC has?
This is more geared to the US. Other jurisdictions may differ. Considering that almost all communications are by AM radio, the margin for error is dependent on the situation: For ramp/ground stuff, it's pretty large generally: You're on the ground: They can always tell you to stop without risking damage to anything. If you *are* risking damage, well, "The hell were you moving that fast for?! Taxi over to the tower and shut it down. The FAA would like a few words with you about your license..." For tower stuff, (clear to land/clear for takeoff/go around/line up and wait...) it's quite a bit smaller. (Hey you, get off of my runway! "Unable" Crap. Hey other guy, go around. "Going around, further instructions for me?" Fly runway heading, climb and maintain five thousand and contact approach .75...) For the interface (and thus, handoffs) between tower and ground, (SWA 1023, lima short of 24R, and tower .35. [SWA 1023, cleared for takeoff runway 24R, altimeter two niner decimal niner zero, winds 165 at two, gusting to five.] DHL 574, cross 24R [SWA 1023 stop!]...) it's smaller still. Congestion decreases the margins: Every time you hear heterodyne, ("*Boop* ... "Blocked!" ... "Everybody pipe down I'll try this again...") one or more people aren't hearing someone. If tower had gotten blocked during the takeoff roll by someone, and maybe some fog, you could have seen nearly the exact same thing that happened at Tenerife. Departure and approach is a little more relaxed (Pilots have TCAS. That overrides ATC instructions when a resolution advisory ("Advisory" in the same sense as when a cop says "You had better stay in your car and keep your hands where I can see them.") occurs. You can (almost) always hold at a waypoint or do a few turns extra. (The reason for TCAS taking priority? DHL Flight 611, Bashkirian Airlines Flight 2937, July 1, 2002, Uberlingen, Germany. Mid-air collision resulting in 71 fatalities because TCAS was ignored and ATC's wrong instructions were listened to instead.) Enroute, or "Center" controllers are about as relaxed as possible. (TCAS again, and with intentionally designed horizontal and vertical spacing rules (north and east are odd thousands of feet flight levels (FL310, FL330, FL350, etc.) and even levels are south/west ones (FL300, FL320, FL340, etc.) You always tack on 500 more feet for your optimal altitude when in class A airspace (Above the pressure transition altitude) Block clearances are exceedingly rare. (Block clearance: Fly anywhere between FL(bottom) and FL(top). Why are blocks rare? Because they destroy vertical separation, allow collisions and our airspace is too busy for blocking off five thousand feet at FL300-ish for them.) Nearly anybody can get a student pilot's license here. That lets you drive your aircraft on the ground and fly in the air under "adult" supervision, and for one or two days, alone, to get your private pilot's license. A PPL lets you fly in most airspace except under the transition altitude. To get above the transition, you have to get IFR certified (back to "flight under (adult) supervision" By the time you're allowed above the transition, you already have (at a minimum) 130 hours of actual in-the-air flight experience and about that in ground instruction. Most people get as much of both as possible. So it's not like they let every yahoo in their Sopwith Camel up there, (leaving aside that the Camel isn't pressurized...) meaning everyone that *is* up there knows what they're doing and how to not make ATC's life difficult. To fly the heavies for a living, you're looking at getting an ATP: >1,500 hours of flight experience, weeks in a classroom, and plenty of knowledge about a complex, pressurized, multi-engined aircraft under a variety of conditions (Almost all of it IFR. And plenty of weather and failure related instruction). And speaking of Tenerife, it taught pilots and ATC to standardize the phraseology (Worldwide) to prevent, and ask questions to clarify, ambiguity. And to do it rapidly.
VASA: You do a great job and are to be commended. I am a Captain at a large US airline and have been there for 26 years. I especially appreciate your focus on what lessons can be learned from each incident. A job well done!
HEDGE1011 Hello, sir. That's my very only purpose in here. Share my knowledge and share usual but hidden things that happen in aviation and let the people understand and learn of it.
Humans are great at making mistakes, that's what we do. That's why there's ATC, two pilots up front, and a radio frequency that all the airplanes and ATC can use to talk amongst themselves. Everyone behaved professionally, and as a result, no injuries and no equipment lost... the system worked.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to thank you for flying with Delta today. In partnership with Atlanta Tower, you will be receiving a free tour of Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. One important thing to note is our brakes work on this aircraft. Again, I want to thank you for flying with Delta."
I hope not, but maybe his company would have a talk with his supervisor? It cost them money and passenger inconvenience. The pilot sounded happy not to have a bent airplane at the end of it all. After all, he just survived a near catastrophe, and he was a critical factor in saving the lives of all the folks behind him. The controller stopped them in time to avoid a crash. He got them into the emergency, but he also got them out safely, and he CLEARLY accepted responsibility, and I'm sure he learned his lesson. I bet that controller was in the biffy barfing five minutes later, and not able to sleep for a few days. What more could be gained by twisting the knife?
I'm surprised they don't pull the controller for a break as soon as this happens. It must be hard not to get hung up on it and then end up making more mistakes like the American 995/955 thing. Take a half hour to regroup!
It sounds like they did pull the controller who had the near miss right after the exchange between the controller and DAL873 you can hear the new controller plug in at 1:26 and hop on. It sounds like the tower was just having a rough day in general.
As an ex ATC I will give you serious. Their are lots of "eyes" upstairs and everyone is assuming the controller realised his mistake, i am guessing he was far to busy to and someone else spotted it. It could even have been an automated alarm, I know some airports now have a button they press when something is cleared to take off. Any infringement up of the take off point and the ground radar alarms. What was good to see was neither of the crews involved immediately berating the Controller for his error. 20 years ago there would have been.
I have heard that kind of berating on freq, and it's ugly and counter-productive. I have also seen pilots get out of their planes, hopping mad, and go into a room to call the tower and shout at them. The latter is better than the former I guess. That wasn't uncommon in the 90s, when I worked for a regional at KIAD. But then the hopping mad pilots (always the captains) would have to get back on the aircraft and fly again 20 minutes later. I felt sorry for the FO's sometimes, and I wondered where the captain's head was at when they were in such a huff. There were a few pilots who were known for having seriously short fuses. Some could be snarky, but some were just angry all the time. That kinda scared me.
dcs002 I was flying into a relatively small airport (Blackpool, UK) a while ago and there was a significant backlog. No big deal, and the tower explained they were just particularly busy. About third back in the queue was a pilot who started getting more and more irate and started screaming at the tower saying they were costing him money. You could sense the collective head shake of every other pilot waiting to land. There was just no need.
Actually - something along those lines ought to exist, right? Or no? Well perhaps a pilot can find ways to complain on a controller if they are determined, but the process isn't formalized I guess? Reminds me of a video with an LAX controller being... very bad at English, frankly. To the point of reducing his efficiency and potentially causing a situation like this one. I bet several pilots complained about it every day.
@@suzukirider9030 Pilots can file a report. I guess it's not as immediate as "I have a number for you...", but in the end it'll through the FAA reporting/paperwork chain. That controller sounded like he knew and he probably had a chat with a supervisor right after it anyway.
What nobody seems to have mentioned is the passenger seated on the right side of the plane cleared to cross the runway. They would have seen the MD-90 travelling at speed towards them and then emergency (RTO) braking. Based on how far down he was on that runway from the beginning, he would have had a good bit of speed by the time he rejected the takeoff.
as I said before and I still claim, pilots should have some kind of binoculars or something like that and before crossing an active runway, even when cleared by the ATC, they should take a look both sides (at least if the weather allows) to make completely sure there isn't any aircraft taking off or landing on that runway at the time as the ATC may screw up like on this day.
Honestly feel really bad for the ATC here. I just hope it didn't affect him long term. Something like that can destroy confidence and I imagine confidence is a huge part of being a successful atc.
My first thought was the controller should have clearly said "ABORT takeoff", since he was rolling, not "cancel takeoff clearance". My second thought was the way the ATC took ownership of his mistake and corrected it. He apologized to the pilots and deserves respect for that. Things happen, whether they "should" or not, they do.
I was flying back from Mexico into SeaTac and it was a rough flight with thunderstorms in the area and my companion gripping my arm. I was on mexicana airways. I’m Canadian and quite a few Americans because of the rough weather made comments about wishing they had flown an American airline. So, thunderstorms in the area, very bumpy coming in. And to me very bumpy is pretty damn bumpy. So we are just about to touchdown and suddenly he throttled up again and we were climbing, I looked out the window as we went over the top of an Alaskan Airlines 737. I’ll never forget seeing the tail of that plane with its Inuit face. This was in 1989. Captain Cordova came on the PA and made a little joke saying this tour of Seattle free for you from Mexican airways. And then he said that actually there was an aircraft crossing the runway and he did not think that was a good time to land. And that he would be having a little chat with the tower when we got down. We did a circuit and came back down, feather touch landing, lots of applause in the cabin. When we got to the gate the flight attendant open the cockpit door and said he couldn’t hear you before. So we gave him another round of applause and he doffed his cap to us. We had the same pilot flying down and I made a joke about him because he Was young and handsome and looked like a hot shot. I said I bet he drives a Corvette. Happy he was a hot shot that night.
my first cross country to large airport, landed, totally confused were taxi way was. Tower got pissy with me, so I replied this is were I'm sitting till he calmed down and helped. Stated I was a student pilot and a bit nervous. That's all it took. Big change in attitude.
That's right we are pilots in command of our aircraft and have the final responsibility. ATC needs to be reminded of that occasionally. I was once told to exit the runway immediately during my rollout because a pissy contract controller at LGB TWR had an A320 3/4 mile in trail. That resulted in a blown tire and I sat in the freakin infield for over an hour.
My first solo I missed my turn on the taxi back to my flight school. Controllers were extremely kind when I apologized and called out that it was my first solo; bonus was that I ended up getting congrats from a few airline captains over the ground frequency.
First time into one of the airports under the busy class B of Phoenix, call tower and get "report over the stack". I grab the map, I don't see no "stack" (since it was a local waypoint nickname), so I reply "...I'm unfamiliar, can you give me a vector to the stack?" He says, "Nooooo, REPORT OVER THE STACK". I could see the airport several miles north, so I replied, "Yeah unable, so I'm gonna just head direct for a long final runway 1." Silence for a minute then got the "Make the straight in runway 1, cleared to land." When I got off the runway with ground control, I asked if tower was having a bad day. Ground said, "LOL, he's always like that with visitors!"
If i'm not mistaken, ATL is fairly unique in that each runway has it's own tower frequency. If you land on the furthest south runway you will pass through at least 2 other controllers before you even get near the ramp. I can see how easy it would be for the 27R controller to just go into autopilot clearing people across that runway considering at the busiest points you have 2/3 of arrivals needing to cross your runway. While this doesn't mean that it is ok for something like this to happen, it is understandable from a human perspective.
Me too, I got as far as applying but found out my eyes were too bad. Even with glasses you can't be over a certain level of short sightedness. I'm kinda glad it never happened
I’m a teen and I’d LOVE to become an ATC someday. It’ll be stressful and I’ll have a lot to learn, but I think it’s also a really rewarding job. It’ll give me a reason to wake up in the morning and take care of myself. I can’t do it for myself, but if it’s for others’ sake, I could.
@@Delilah_Anne Go for it! Even my pilot dream looked scary before I started studying for it. Now I've had my maiden flight and it's not as bad as it seemed at first :)
It ended up being a real pain for the Delta pilot but at least the controller caught his mistake. The alternative could have been much worse. Great to hear the controller put his hands up to the mistake too. I'm sure he'll be written up for it. 😕
Anthony Cooke he should be. Its the only way tondocument these incidents against the individual so ifnit vecomes a pattern you can remove them. One writeup isnt going to cost someone a career
DAL873: ...will get our... self in order... Translation: after we change our pants and come up with an excuse for why we cancelled take off that is both plausible for the passengers and not going to make them brown their pants
i agree with you but honestly as a passenger i think the most comforting excuse WOULD be "oh the ATC guy accidentally told us to go when we shouldnt". better than them saying something about the plane/crew etc
Can you imagine sitting in the crossing aircraft, just staring out the window, and suddenly see a great big jet hurtling towards you down the runway..you’d be thinking, ‘oh, Tenerife’....
Actually, that's not uncommon with summer thunderstorms at IAD. I'm not a frequent flyer, but I've spent way too much time locked up in tubes on IAD taxiways. Worst case was a 7-hour delay before we returned to gate for a crew change. Flight was rescheduled for the next day.
Going from positive G' to negative G's during a high speed roll must have been terrifying for the passengers without a heads up. Some must have been so nervous for the rest of the flight thinking something was wrong with the plane.
Atlanta Tower, yeah uhh... when you're done... with that cup of coffee... Yeah, Im going to need you to go ahead and uh take down this number.... Advise when you're ready to copy.
Yeah, I caught that too......Lol....My Dad was in the Army stationed in Germany right after WWII and he used to tell stories about those "euphemisms" that were used in the air!!
You could almost head the trembling in his voice. To me he seem terrified trying to have them abort that take off. However, pilots shouldn't blindly cross an active runway either, there are protocols to check both sides of the aircraft when crossing a runway. That whole incident should have been avoided on multiple levels. Almost disastrous.
that is if he still managed to keep his job because if I was his boss I would have to take a would think about it to not fire him after this MISTAKE, that could have caused a lot of deaths, it's a serious issue.
@@jo-eo9ld It's not a good job, a good job would have been to not put those aircrafts in danger on the first place. This was just a fortunate reaction at the last minute. It seems like not many people realize how dangerous this was just because it was prevented at the last second. Not everyone can be an Air Traffic Controller and if you don't have what it takes then you just don't do it, it's as simple as that. Nobody says it's easy, hell it is not at all, but if you chose to be an ATC then you have to be preppared to do what it's necesary to do your job an ensure passengers's safety (and crew safety as well)
The only delay that matters is between erratic takeoff clearance, abort call and full stop of the aircraft. Not good that such a delay exist at all, but in the end of a day it was short enough to prevent horrible disaster. Tenerife was all about delays, you know.
Since covid air travel was hit hard including ATC. I’ve noticed some airports are running on reduced staff, tower & ground combined to one frequency is a good hint of that. I hope the guys get some help up there sooner than later. Is not only towers, TRACONs and centers are going through the same. Glad all worked out for the crew of both planes.
This was 4 years ago, nothing to do with Covid. It's just Atlanta is a busy airport in normal times, and people eventually make mistakes. Just a good thing they caught the mistake in time.
This is exactly why you're supposed to check left and right BEFORE you cross the runway even if ATC cleared you. Always check both ways before crossing this is elementary school stuff
Was watching a few Airplane crash videos and ran across your videos...excellent work....it's hard to imagine what goes on day to day in the towers and your videos give us just a glimpse of the enormous pressure the controllers are under. Instantly hooked on your videos....appreciate it
"Tower, this is Delta 873, do you have one of those blue forms? If so, _YOU_ need to fill it out and send it in..." Hartsfield Ground: The most stressful job in the world for a controller.
I'm confused. At this point (and maybe there is now) how do all airports not have software leveraged by the ATC's that mark a runway as active until cleared takeoffs are confirmed to ensure no other traffic can possibly be routed over it?
Typical day in Atlanta where the Hartsfield ATC and pilots are as confused as the drivers on I-285........ The cities slogan should be "Line Up And Wait"
I spent years flying into and out of ATL. It's the busiest airport but it runs safely and efficiently. There are some delays for weather (unavoidable) but they run a tight ship. It's Delta's "fortress hub" and ATC and the Delta crews have a very cooperative attitude.
Just an FYI - many years ago I remember a documentary that took a look at various jobs that were high risk. They did one of those "worse 10" countdowns. I do remember that the most dangerous job was North Sea Fishermen, but the most stressful job was an ATC. I can't imagine being responsible for 1000s of people on a daily basis.
They know that they are human and shit happend. There was no accident, 'just' a near miss that got corrected in time to be safe. He might just get a vocal warning, might not even get a written one. However if it happend too often he will most likelly have to go back to training.
Jeff Dearman controllers are immediately pulled from duty to have a break if any near incident happens like it the video. Listen @ 1:26 as a new controller plugs in. This is to give the controller who nearly/did fuck up to get a breather in order to stop another clusterfuck happening right after.
Jeff Dearman same thing that happens to a pilot when they make a mistake. Lots of investigation, and depending on what happened, they could be terminated or suspended
It does depend on what happened but they are generally given x amount of minor freebies in a given time frame. I used to know exactly but it's been awhile, I want to say 3 minor violations in a year would get you canned. Obviously a incident with death or injury would be career ending. People are humans and will inevitably make mistakes, otherwise none of us would have jobs.
I’m fascinated with flying and listen this stuff whenever I get a chance. What boggles my mind is why can’t they slow down and speak clearly to each other rather than creating a new language, chopping words and creating so much confusion.
I’m in a aviation school, the reason they use this language is to make up for some accents some people may have (ATC). The language, like Bravo Charlie Foxtrot is universal in the aviation industry and makes it easier for communication and service
BP still rises thinking of ATL.First job was flying freight in light twins back when Eastern was still around. Gross,full throttle being told by ATC to keep it up as there was a 747 1/4 behind dragging his feet. Crossing the fence screaming ,dumping gear, full flaps,doing a 3 point carrier landing,full brakes to make the first exit. Spent 1/4 of my life sitting on Dixie.
In a case like this, does this where the controller makes a mistake, what happens to the controller? Is he/she sacked or put on leave. Or are they sent for a retraining assessment?
if tower tells me I'm cleared to cross, I'm crossing as soon as possible. no lighting or signage is going to stop me. 99% of the time that controller has a better idea of what's going on than I do
Clayton Ramsey And 1% of the time he doesn't and you get hit by a plane on takeoff. Red stop lights take precedence over clearances and it doesn't cost you much to x-check with the controller. Probably less than 5s. I don't assume you would be willing to bring the life of hundreds of people at risk just to safe these 5s.
MrKnisterGer I'm not a pilot, but since incursion lights were installed due to so many pilot and controller errors, what you say makes sense. Assume the lights are more often correct than the controller. In the real world, is that what pilots are expected to do? Is that what they really do?
flinx it's not necessarily that the lights are more often correct than the controllers, but if both give contradictory information it's obvious that there is some confusion or misunderstanding. That's the time to ask for clarification.
Some airports are installing reds lights in the runway centerlines and at runway crossings. If those red lights are on you do not cross/start takeoff roll no matter what the controller says. The lights are automated and do not work off of any input from the controller. If an aircraft is detected crossing a runway the red lights in the runway centerline come on indicating to an airplane lined up for takeoff that the runway is not clear. If an aircraft starts its takeoff roll it is detected by the system and the red lights come on at runway crossings.
A absolute nightmare for the controller, fortunately he caught it right away, pilot was VERY gracious. Pilots...ALWAYS look both ways when crossing any runway! This controller will NEVER forget this error, hopefully others will learn as well.
You definitely know that controller got written up and had to answer some tough questions. I've seen this happen here and the controller is immediately pulled from duty in these cases.
As they should be. It is common for people to think about mistake they did, thinking what they could do better and they are prone to lose focus and make many more mistakes during that time because of lowered concentration. Really bad situation for traffic controller who has to be 100% focused.
Kind of a double standard when it comes to atc and pilots making communication errors. If it was the other way around, there would have been multiple investigations.
I completely understand the controller, everyone messes up sometimes and I’m sure being an ATC at an intl airport can be a stressful job. Props to him for keeping his cool, catching his mistake and genuinely owning up for it, and props to the delta pilot for not getting annoyed and keeping it professional.
13rdp You have a valid point, but there is a certain lingo, cadence, and all around method used in aviation, and "stop" or "abort" would have been no clearer to the pilot than "Cancel take-off." Although, "abort take-off" is common also. If you notice, there was no confusion as to what to do, the pilots weren't clear as to who needed to do it. All in all, from the outside looking in you make a good point.
"Cancel Takeoff Clearance" is straight out of the book. It's exactly what the controller is supposed to say and pilots should recognize the seriousness of it.
Funny how ATC can make as many mistakes as they like but if a pilot made a mistake half that bad, they'd be scolding him and giving them a number to call to be scolded and have their job and livelihood threatened.
"Delta 749, hold short of runway 27R at TANGO" Changing frequency to 123.85 The other controller gives clearance to take off for Delta 873 "Delta 749, cross 27R runway" - new person's voice from new frequency (123.85) So, changing ATC controler made entire confusion probably. Good reaction to new ATC, kudos for fast spotting that dangerous mistake.
Tower: Delta 995, 27R line up and wait. I'll be right with you. Pilot: Just to verify, its Delta 9-5-5, line up and wait. Tower: 995, 27 Right, line up and wait. Thanks Pilot: Line up and wait, Delta 965 I swear I heard the pilot read back the callsign incorrect. 1:40
Great work to all involved once the mistake was realized. But I'm actually surprised that that there isn't a more computerized form of clearances where the crossing plane can't be cleared until the taking off plane has left the runway or vice versa. I know in the railroad world, there are sections of "dark territory" that don't have any kind of signals, and hybrid sections that have signals but only for safety, all movement authorizations are made verbally from dispatch (though that's changing with the implementation of Positive Train Control). However, all the dispatcher does now is stuff the info in a computer, and then read nearly verbatim what the computer spits back out. They still look at the screen with a schematic of the tracks which shows what train has been cleared where, and the computer just won't let them bring up a clearance that would conflict, same as if they're directly controlling the signals. Sure, a dispatcher could get on a radio and verbally issue their own conflicting clearance, but that requires actual malice rather than just a mistake.
ATC is one of those jobs where you are not allowed to make a mistake. Like not one.... and if you do you’re in big trouble... so you have to go an entire career virtually making no mistakes.... so you’re not allowed to be human. What a job 🙁
Shows that we are all human and make mistakes. However the pilot crossing the runway should have checked right before moving across the runway. The atc controller should be in the shit for that.
Looked right? This runway could be 2-3 miles long, do you really think you could make out an aircraft moving at passenger car speeds at 2 miles from your current? It would look just like he is standing still and the pilot is trusting the ATC to know what he is doing.
Not a pilot or controller, but I am amazed at the concentration required of the controllers. It's got to be nerve wracking! I wouldn't last 10 minutes trying to do that job.
Delt eitsvnthre cancltakoclera So good I'm not a pilot especially at this airport cause the controller talked so damn fast that I would have never ever understood that my takeoff was cancelled.
I don't understand how they understand the speaker from the tower. I was reading what they were saying and then I closed my eyes and could not fathom a word.
This is seriously one of the coolest channels ever. So interesting to listen to. Even more so as someone who has a ton of anxiety flying. I rarely do it. This channel has amplified that anxiety. Lol. But hey, I'm a glutton for punishment.
If you guys haven't already done so could you please do a video explaining some of the taxiing radio terminology? What does it mean when they say Lima, Lima? I know these are taxiing waypoints... But all they actually saying ?
![[REAL ATC] FULL LOSS OF POWER at Miami International #KMIA](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fvD1-SBq0hg/mqdefault.jpg)
![[REAL ATC] FULL LOSS OF POWER at Miami International #KMIA](/img/tr.png)
![[REAL ATC] American B757 has COMPLETE RADIO FAILURE out of Kennedy!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Wcq6KipBOro/mqdefault.jpg)
"Ladies and Gentlemen thank you for flying Delta 873, we will now proceed with our comprehensive tour of the Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta Airport."
😂😂
Nice!
ladies and gen this is your capt. speaking... I just want to let you all know our breaks is working normally.... next on the list of things need to be check is take off....
looks like that flight was headed for the Grand Caymon islands, might explain why they were so relaxed.
Jerry Law English please
Honourable mention to the Delta Airlines cleaners who had to clean the seats in the right aisle on 749.
Me! Not on that flight, but I'm one of those staring out every window to make sure nothing going to hit us, and watching to make sure Pilot puts those darn flaps down!
Must have been of more concern than those pilots of 4 airliners were willing to express when that Canadian Airlines was heading straight for them on the taxiway recently.
@@markmark5269 I thought I was the only one who always checks to make sure the pilot lowers the flaps!
It isn't _that_ bad if you don't lower your flaps before take-off, but it does give you a sense of how bad your pilots are.
Varun Gupta Well, it isn‘t that bad if you *know* you‘re going to take off without flaps, because then you can adjust Vrotate and aim for a higher climb speed. If you just forget to set flaps, you‘ll try to climb out at a low speed and steep angle of attack that cannot sustain enough lift without flaps. Add to that maybe a little ice on the wings, an inattentive PIC or an engine that doesn‘t run at full power and you‘re headed for desaster.
@@YourSkyliner yeah that's what happened here with the LAPA accident in 1999
If I were a passenger on Delta 873, I'd be a bit upset at the delay, but eternally grateful to not have perished in an enormous fireball at the end of Runway 27R at ATL. Better late than dead.
sritger if I die at an airport it has to be anywhere but atlanta. Shit hole of an airport
Look up the Tenerife Disaster for something like this that ended up killing a lot of people. Poor visibilty crowded runway and very confusing orders.
Yeah, couldn’t agree more
Zachary Watson Thus why you need to read back. And why everyone in the industry has a basic understanding of English
Think that they didn't know what was happening and probably the pilot told "we had a problem at the aircraft" so they were worried for the entire flight
Shit happens, however, it SHOULDN'T happen... But hey, the important thing was that he sorted it out..
Respect to the controller, immediately claiming responsibility for the mistake.
One day, they will simply computerise all of that... The pilot (or most likelly the copilot) will just press the "ready to takeoff" button or "go to the gate" or "request holding position" and the computers will tell them what to do and where to go. No more issue... Will happend probably sooner than we think and hope...
Except if they use Microcrud WIndoze for the OS and it freezes or locks up it will give new meaning to "computer crash" LOL
Victorian Sculptures
:DDD Specially if they use windows 10! ... I repair computer for a living... I hate win10...
thephantom1492
EWWW windows 10!!!!!! I think I'd use 2 cans and a string before I used that!
Krister L Very true and I fully agree
Fantastic job on both sides of the radio. The controller quickly realized and corrected his mistake and genuinely owned up to it. The pilot was kind and did not sound the least bit annoyed or put off.
Pilots are very professional in general I've found. Except for Captain Happy when he joins taxiway Lima instead of Mike :P
Hahaha!
Everyone's just trying to do their job and help keep the aviation wheel turning. There's no malice if a mistake is made, so I'm glad they just took the accepted the situation they were now in and worked to move forward
BigTunaTim76 surely he was no doubt shitting himself.
That's called being professional.
There are reasons why ATC is one of the toughest job on earth
yes it need 100% concentration all the time with u staring on a screen with decent amounth of aircrafts on it that google atc sim ;)
ex59neo53 lots of reasons. Less stressful to be a pilot of one aircraft than a coordinator of possibly 100s in a half days work IMO
definitely both stressful in their own respects, although I would say at busy airports, there are way more lives on the line for an ATCO! Coordinating with so many people and directing them so they do not crash I feel is much harder than managing a cockpit-- there are extreme instances where pilot is DEFINITELY more stressful , but at least its only their plane and passengers they're worrying about and not hundreds of others in busy traffic; Pilot has copilot and other staff on most commercial jet flights too. But hey, when lives are on the line, any job can be stressful !!
Lanzini LaJoya never said they would blindly crash I know it's up to pilots for the safety of their craft; but I could not imagine LA Intl, for example, be run safely without ATC especially in bad weather conditions on a holiday ... This whole thing is just opinion . But I for one am more of a cockpit guy over the tower desk any day !
*You could say that, but it's not like aircraft would suddenly crash if ATC didn't exist*
At busy ones they sure would. The development of the modern ATC system over several decades came as a result of several tragedies that showed how ineffective "see and avoid" and lax control measures were.
All this thing about pilots are like god raptor incarnate misses the point that a pilot is a pilot, of one vehicle. Typically he points his nose at a part of the sky, tells ATC and they make it work around him if he has a problem. ATC gets into a mess and you have a cascade of issues going out not just from the one guy but into all the adjacent guys too.
ATC is far more complex and the threshold for danger is severe at a single slip of the tongue. Anytime pilots make severe errors that put their planes in jeopardy its usually a collection of human errors and technical faults. Pilots not setting takeoff flaps and stalling on take off means failing to do multiple pre takeoff checks, a takeoff warning fuse being pulled and to boot being badly prepared to handle a stall in that situation. Meanwhile ATL TWR says "take off" when he shouldn't and if he blinks for a few seconds longer that's potentially 50-300 dead right there.
ATL TWR is far more competent than most of the pilots who crash airplanes yet he was far closer to a fatal moment than any god raptor pilot in command. I just think people romanticize the pilot far too much and they want to say its more important a role than it really is, as if nothing will ever be as big, hard, important, stressful, important in any context, at the very least equal usually claimed to be far more important. There will be a fully automated airplane before there's a fully automated ATC system though. If you spend any amount of time listening to ATC feeds you also hear them change people over quite often, especially on busy freqs. No pilot would ever expect or demand that level of relief indicating they're just not facing the same stresses.
But yea I know nobody will agree because pilots are still kings of the sky and ATC isn't as sexy a thing to be romanticizing.
that must of been one hell of a brake check.... imagine explaining that to the passengers... Uhhhh. a deer ran out in front of us.. yep. that's what happened
gittyupalice96 rip apple juice
Must have*
J Jappie nobody cares about what you have to say
Jake Lyon I love your comment, sir.
It's happened before: ruclips.net/video/x04kRUIgXpQ/видео.html
"Cancel takeoff clearance" is a little different that "STOP". Thankfully the pilots interpreted it properly and slammed on the brakes.
Yeah, *STOP* or *ABORT* seems like would have been more effective instructions to give the pilot. Fortunately, he had good brakes and plenty of distance before the crossing traffic. Though one would have hoped he'd have seen the plane enter the runway and initiated the takeoff abort before being told to be ATC.
@@MikeDCWeld Agree with you both -- the cancel order was itself a botch!
The correct phraseology would be „DAL873, stop immediately, DAL873, stop immediately“, as they had already begun their takeoff roll. Still, good reaction. the most important thing is that the pilots understood what he meant and stopped before crashing.
@@matthiaspatzelt3085 Actually looking at the diagram, it had enough runway to take off assuming full capacity and being a MD-90. "Cancel takeoff Clearance" is up to the PIC to decide what to do since they really can't revoke clearance. "Abort Takeoff" would have been a direct order signalling imminent danger that the PIC would have to try to obey.
ibmwxp_zhj ibmwxp_zhj No. The official ICAO phraseology lists HOLD POSITION, CANCEL TAKEOFF CLEARANCE, I SAY AGAIN, CANCEL TAKEOFF CLEARANCE as correct phraseology for canceling takeoff if the aircraft has not yet started its takeoff roll. STOP IMMEDIATELY STOP IMMEDIATELY is used instead if the aircraft is already moving. In neither of those cases has the PIC any decision to make. S/he either holds position or slam the brakes.
And of course clearances given can be revoked any time if the situation demands it.
I love how this guy brings in enough of the other ATC conversations to give us a good feel for what was happening over all that day. It appears they were having a rough day in the tower. Another great vid, excellent edit !
I always try to! Thanks a lot! :)
Yes, Amazing work and thanks a lot!
@@VASAviation Where do you get all of these recordings?
It is one of the busiest airports this side of the world
Imagine having a right window seat on that SWA flight...
Imagine..
I’ve been in a similar situation but I think it was organized like that, the plane to our plane’s right looked like it was about to tbone us but then it just lifted off
Went over us
Because it was dark outside, the lights on the outline of the plane make it look even scarier, like it was flipping onto us after running parallel while trying to take off. Looked like it did a vertical 180, went inverted and was boutta smash us then when the illusion stopped it looked like the TBone problem
@@RadiantHealer I honestly can't imagine an allowance that would permit at ATC to have an aircraft intersect an active runway just because the departing craft should be above it. The only possible exception I can think of would be if it was a small craft taking off and the distance to reach max V1 plus a controlled slowdown still wouldn't reach the crossing aircraft.
I could not do this for a living. Huge respect to the people who do this, especially to the ATC that caught his mistake and took responsibility.
Agreed. You pull it off perfectly for years. Make the takeover in (IIRC Pushing Tin) look rough compared to how you organize the planes. But one time lose your picture of every plane....500 dead is possible. And you know you were the main reason....
@@larrythompson8630 I've always had that thought as well. I could never do a job where a perfectly-understandable mistake could result in such tragedy. When an average Joe, like me, makes a mistake I accidentally lock my keys in my car and have to call a locksmith. If ATC makes a mistake, hundreds of people may lose their lives in a terrifying manner. All the respect in the world to the men and women of ATC because I certainly wouldn't be able to do it. *And yes, I did accidentally lock my keys in my car once*
Having trouble directing airport traffic? Then you need to call "Kennedy Steve" Fixes airport traffic automatically!
Hello!
First of all, thanks for the huge support on the last Southwest video. At this time is 311 LIKES versus just 1 dis-LIKE. I love you guys and have no words to appreciate enough.
Here's a video about a quite bad day for this Atlanta ATC making mistake after mistake. What do you think? We are humans and we are mistaking everyday but... in this aviation sector? How big is the range of error an ATC has?
This is more geared to the US. Other jurisdictions may differ. Considering that almost all communications are by AM radio, the margin for error is dependent on the situation:
For ramp/ground stuff, it's pretty large generally: You're on the ground: They can always tell you to stop without risking damage to anything. If you *are* risking damage, well, "The hell were you moving that fast for?! Taxi over to the tower and shut it down. The FAA would like a few words with you about your license..."
For tower stuff, (clear to land/clear for takeoff/go around/line up and wait...) it's quite a bit smaller. (Hey you, get off of my runway! "Unable" Crap. Hey other guy, go around. "Going around, further instructions for me?" Fly runway heading, climb and maintain five thousand and contact approach .75...)
For the interface (and thus, handoffs) between tower and ground, (SWA 1023, lima short of 24R, and tower .35. [SWA 1023, cleared for takeoff runway 24R, altimeter two niner decimal niner zero, winds 165 at two, gusting to five.] DHL 574, cross 24R [SWA 1023 stop!]...) it's smaller still.
Congestion decreases the margins: Every time you hear heterodyne, ("*Boop* ... "Blocked!" ... "Everybody pipe down I'll try this again...") one or more people aren't hearing someone. If tower had gotten blocked during the takeoff roll by someone, and maybe some fog, you could have seen nearly the exact same thing that happened at Tenerife.
Departure and approach is a little more relaxed (Pilots have TCAS. That overrides ATC instructions when a resolution advisory ("Advisory" in the same sense as when a cop says "You had better stay in your car and keep your hands where I can see them.") occurs. You can (almost) always hold at a waypoint or do a few turns extra. (The reason for TCAS taking priority? DHL Flight 611, Bashkirian Airlines Flight 2937, July 1, 2002, Uberlingen, Germany. Mid-air collision resulting in 71 fatalities because TCAS was ignored and ATC's wrong instructions were listened to instead.)
Enroute, or "Center" controllers are about as relaxed as possible. (TCAS again, and with intentionally designed horizontal and vertical spacing rules (north and east are odd thousands of feet flight levels (FL310, FL330, FL350, etc.) and even levels are south/west ones (FL300, FL320, FL340, etc.) You always tack on 500 more feet for your optimal altitude when in class A airspace (Above the pressure transition altitude) Block clearances are exceedingly rare. (Block clearance: Fly anywhere between FL(bottom) and FL(top). Why are blocks rare? Because they destroy vertical separation, allow collisions and our airspace is too busy for blocking off five thousand feet at FL300-ish for them.) Nearly anybody can get a student pilot's license here. That lets you drive your aircraft on the ground and fly in the air under "adult" supervision, and for one or two days, alone, to get your private pilot's license. A PPL lets you fly in most airspace except under the transition altitude. To get above the transition, you have to get IFR certified (back to "flight under (adult) supervision" By the time you're allowed above the transition, you already have (at a minimum) 130 hours of actual in-the-air flight experience and about that in ground instruction. Most people get as much of both as possible. So it's not like they let every yahoo in their Sopwith Camel up there, (leaving aside that the Camel isn't pressurized...) meaning everyone that *is* up there knows what they're doing and how to not make ATC's life difficult. To fly the heavies for a living, you're looking at getting an ATP: >1,500 hours of flight experience, weeks in a classroom, and plenty of knowledge about a complex, pressurized, multi-engined aircraft under a variety of conditions (Almost all of it IFR. And plenty of weather and failure related instruction).
And speaking of Tenerife, it taught pilots and ATC to standardize the phraseology (Worldwide) to prevent, and ask questions to clarify, ambiguity. And to do it rapidly.
VASA: You do a great job and are to be commended. I am a Captain at a large US airline and have been there for 26 years. I especially appreciate your focus on what lessons can be learned from each incident. A job well done!
HEDGE1011
Hello, sir. That's my very only purpose in here. Share my knowledge and share usual but hidden things that happen in aviation and let the people understand and learn of it.
Humans are great at making mistakes, that's what we do. That's why there's ATC, two pilots up front, and a radio frequency that all the airplanes and ATC can use to talk amongst themselves. Everyone behaved professionally, and as a result, no injuries and no equipment lost... the system worked.
I love the graphics with your vids.. so much easier to understand what's going on! I'd love to get into ATC at some point in my career :)
"Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to thank you for flying with Delta today. In partnership with Atlanta Tower, you will be receiving a free tour of Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. One important thing to note is our brakes work on this aircraft. Again, I want to thank you for flying with Delta."
Tbh, I always love going to airports and looking at them and would not be annoyed in the slightest. Hahahah
LOL sorry, do you not mean "thanks for driving with Delta"? :-)
😂😂😂
And that big silver thing at the end of the runway was our new holographic show 😂
ATC I have a number for you to call.
LMAO, I wonder if the Pilots will file on the Controller
I hope not, but maybe his company would have a talk with his supervisor? It cost them money and passenger inconvenience. The pilot sounded happy not to have a bent airplane at the end of it all. After all, he just survived a near catastrophe, and he was a critical factor in saving the lives of all the folks behind him.
The controller stopped them in time to avoid a crash. He got them into the emergency, but he also got them out safely, and he CLEARLY accepted responsibility, and I'm sure he learned his lesson. I bet that controller was in the biffy barfing five minutes later, and not able to sleep for a few days. What more could be gained by twisting the knife?
That was a runway incursion incident. EVERYONE in that tower got in shit and there was likely a FAA investigation into the incident.
Someone been watching too much AirForceProud95?
Lightning ya go ahead and blog that.
I'm surprised they don't pull the controller for a break as soon as this happens. It must be hard not to get hung up on it and then end up making more mistakes like the American 995/955 thing. Take a half hour to regroup!
It sounds like they did pull the controller who had the near miss right after the exchange between the controller and DAL873 you can hear the new controller plug in at 1:26 and hop on. It sounds like the tower was just having a rough day in general.
Yeah, this is not a minor event. This is very, very, very serious.
As an ex ATC I will give you serious. Their are lots of "eyes" upstairs and everyone is assuming the controller realised his mistake, i am guessing he was far to busy to and someone else spotted it. It could even have been an automated alarm, I know some airports now have a button they press when something is cleared to take off. Any infringement up of the take off point and the ground radar alarms. What was good to see was neither of the crews involved immediately berating the Controller for his error. 20 years ago there would have been.
I have heard that kind of berating on freq, and it's ugly and counter-productive. I have also seen pilots get out of their planes, hopping mad, and go into a room to call the tower and shout at them. The latter is better than the former I guess. That wasn't uncommon in the 90s, when I worked for a regional at KIAD.
But then the hopping mad pilots (always the captains) would have to get back on the aircraft and fly again 20 minutes later. I felt sorry for the FO's sometimes, and I wondered where the captain's head was at when they were in such a huff. There were a few pilots who were known for having seriously short fuses. Some could be snarky, but some were just angry all the time. That kinda scared me.
dcs002 I was flying into a relatively small airport (Blackpool, UK) a while ago and there was a significant backlog. No big deal, and the tower explained they were just particularly busy. About third back in the queue was a pilot who started getting more and more irate and started screaming at the tower saying they were costing him money. You could sense the collective head shake of every other pilot waiting to land. There was just no need.
Delta Pilot to tower:
"Atlanta Tower, possible controller deviation, I have a number for you to copy" :P
I understand that reference!!
Actually - something along those lines ought to exist, right? Or no? Well perhaps a pilot can find ways to complain on a controller if they are determined, but the process isn't formalized I guess?
Reminds me of a video with an LAX controller being... very bad at English, frankly. To the point of reducing his efficiency and potentially causing a situation like this one.
I bet several pilots complained about it every day.
@@suzukirider9030 Pilots can file a report. I guess it's not as immediate as "I have a number for you...", but in the end it'll through the FAA reporting/paperwork chain. That controller sounded like he knew and he probably had a chat with a supervisor right after it anyway.
Oh how the turn tables...
@@suzukirider9030 if ya watch airforceproud95 youll hear the word "formal complaint paperwork" a bunch of times
It's a good thing this happened on their longest runway; more stopping distance.
would it matter though since the southwest was blocking the runway?
@@the747isnotdead6 Well, the southwest would have also been able to stop the plane. But I don't think anybody on either flight would have liked that.
What nobody seems to have mentioned is the passenger seated on the right side of the plane cleared to cross the runway. They would have seen the MD-90 travelling at speed towards them and then emergency (RTO) braking. Based on how far down he was on that runway from the beginning, he would have had a good bit of speed by the time he rejected the takeoff.
Charles Dreiser yea pretty sure I’d shit myself if I saw a MD-90 hurtling towards me...
Probably a lot of pax on the starboard side of that aircraft had to replace their underwear.
as I said before and I still claim, pilots should have some kind of binoculars or something like that and before crossing an active runway, even when cleared by the ATC, they should take a look both sides (at least if the weather allows) to make completely sure there isn't any aircraft taking off or landing on that runway at the time as the ATC may screw up like on this day.
@@michaelgalli2431 yeah, honorable mention to the delta airlines cleaners who had to clean the seats on the right aisle
I do not think the passengers did see that much, closest proximity was more than 6000 feet,
I WAS STRESSED JUST LISTENING IN MY BEDROOM
same here and i didnt fully understand what was goin on :D
lol is your caps lock broken
Honestly feel really bad for the ATC here. I just hope it didn't affect him long term. Something like that can destroy confidence and I imagine confidence is a huge part of being a successful atc.
My first thought was the controller should have clearly said "ABORT takeoff", since he was rolling, not "cancel takeoff clearance". My second thought was the way the ATC took ownership of his mistake and corrected it. He apologized to the pilots and deserves respect for that. Things happen, whether they "should" or not, they do.
I was flying back from Mexico into SeaTac and it was a rough flight with thunderstorms in the area and my companion gripping my arm. I was on mexicana airways.
I’m Canadian and quite a few Americans because of the rough weather made comments about wishing they had flown an American airline.
So, thunderstorms in the area, very bumpy coming in. And to me very bumpy is pretty damn bumpy. So we are just about to touchdown and suddenly he throttled up again and we were climbing, I looked out the window as we went over the top of an Alaskan Airlines 737. I’ll never forget seeing the tail of that plane with its Inuit face. This was in 1989.
Captain Cordova came on the PA and made a little joke saying this tour of Seattle free for you from Mexican airways. And then he said that actually there was an aircraft crossing the runway and he did not think that was a good time to land. And that he would be having a little chat with the tower when we got down.
We did a circuit and came back down, feather touch landing, lots of applause in the cabin. When we got to the gate the flight attendant open the cockpit door and said he couldn’t hear you before. So we gave him another round of applause and he doffed his cap to us.
We had the same pilot flying down and I made a joke about him because he Was young and handsome and looked like a hot shot. I said I bet he drives a Corvette. Happy he was a hot shot that night.
I hope @theflightchannel can find and recreate this incident! Thanks for the story.
this was a neat story, thank you!
Welcome to 873, the negative G ride offered by Delta in partnership with ATL ATC
i feel the ATC was dangerous.
martin theiss Incredibly easy mistake.. what really matters is he caught it. If the graphics are near accurate, it wasn’t super close either.
newname very good that he caught it and owned up to it, hopefully it was just a one-time mistake.
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Pilot to the ATC controller: "When you're ready I have a number for you to take down."
my first cross country to large airport, landed, totally confused were taxi way was. Tower got pissy with me, so I replied this is were I'm sitting till he calmed down and helped. Stated I was a student pilot and a bit nervous. That's all it took. Big change in attitude.
@Julian Moses All these pilot confessions are making me less and less comfortable with flying XD
That's right we are pilots in command of our aircraft and have the final responsibility. ATC needs to be reminded of that occasionally. I was once told to exit the runway immediately during my rollout because a pissy contract controller at LGB TWR had an A320 3/4 mile in trail. That resulted in a blown tire and I sat in the freakin infield for over an hour.
My first solo I missed my turn on the taxi back to my flight school. Controllers were extremely kind when I apologized and called out that it was my first solo; bonus was that I ended up getting congrats from a few airline captains over the ground frequency.
First time into one of the airports under the busy class B of Phoenix, call tower and get "report over the stack". I grab the map, I don't see no "stack" (since it was a local waypoint nickname), so I reply "...I'm unfamiliar, can you give me a vector to the stack?" He says, "Nooooo, REPORT OVER THE STACK". I could see the airport several miles north, so I replied, "Yeah unable, so I'm gonna just head direct for a long final runway 1." Silence for a minute then got the "Make the straight in runway 1, cleared to land." When I got off the runway with ground control, I asked if tower was having a bad day. Ground said, "LOL, he's always like that with visitors!"
@@SGTSnakeUSMC the STACK is the first marker of ILS ? thanks for any reply
If i'm not mistaken, ATL is fairly unique in that each runway has it's own tower frequency. If you land on the furthest south runway you will pass through at least 2 other controllers before you even get near the ramp. I can see how easy it would be for the 27R controller to just go into autopilot clearing people across that runway considering at the busiest points you have 2/3 of arrivals needing to cross your runway. While this doesn't mean that it is ok for something like this to happen, it is understandable from a human perspective.
Yeah...not a good set up
imagine these guys running a drive thru at McDonalds
They'd be fucking amazing. You could finally get your food in an orderly manner.
Car 1592, clear for fries on window #1, no delay.
They could probably even get the ice cream machines to work.
Hold short at window 1 and wait for clearance to window 2.
Delta TUG 2, you're not getting your milkshake until United 87 gets out of the ramp
Respect to the ATC for acknowledging his mistake and gracefully handing it! Unfortunately mistakes are almost inevitable.
Holy crap! As a teen I wanted to be an ATC. I am so glad I decided against that. What an unbelievably stressful job.
Me too, I got as far as applying but found out my eyes were too bad. Even with glasses you can't be over a certain level of short sightedness. I'm kinda glad it never happened
I’m a teen and I’d LOVE to become an ATC someday. It’ll be stressful and I’ll have a lot to learn, but I think it’s also a really rewarding job. It’ll give me a reason to wake up in the morning and take care of myself. I can’t do it for myself, but if it’s for others’ sake, I could.
@@Delilah_Anne Go for it! Even my pilot dream looked scary before I started studying for it. Now I've had my maiden flight and it's not as bad as it seemed at first :)
ATC was lucky the pilot understood his mumbled and way too fast cancel takeoff clearance.
It ended up being a real pain for the Delta pilot but at least the controller caught his mistake. The alternative could have been much worse. Great to hear the controller put his hands up to the mistake too. I'm sure he'll be written up for it. 😕
Anthony Cooke he should be. Its the only way tondocument these incidents against the individual so ifnit vecomes a pattern you can remove them. One writeup isnt going to cost someone a career
@@youareamoron6668 he was a supervisor; he can get a commission
Amazing how professional everyone is, no one calling each other out or losing their temper, just dealing with it and moving on with their work.
Very true
I'm sure it pays off to not be a hothead in the aviation business.
DAL873: ...will get our... self in order...
Translation: after we change our pants and come up with an excuse for why we cancelled take off that is both plausible for the passengers and not going to make them brown their pants
i agree with you but honestly as a passenger i think the most comforting excuse WOULD be "oh the ATC guy accidentally told us to go when we shouldnt". better than them saying something about the plane/crew etc
Can you imagine sitting in the crossing aircraft, just staring out the window, and suddenly see a great big jet hurtling towards you down the runway..you’d be thinking, ‘oh, Tenerife’....
Delta 873: “Atlanta Tower, I’m gonna need you to write down a phone number for me.”
Human Error (happens to all of us) At least the ATC avoided the crash...Good job
*What was your travel time? 6 hours. 3 in the air and 3 on the runway.*
Actually, that's not uncommon with summer thunderstorms at IAD. I'm not a frequent flyer, but I've spent way too much time locked up in tubes on IAD taxiways. Worst case was a 7-hour delay before we returned to gate for a crew change. Flight was rescheduled for the next day.
Going from positive G' to negative G's during a high speed roll must have been terrifying for the passengers without a heads up. Some must have been so nervous for the rest of the flight thinking something was wrong with the plane.
Atlanta Tower, yeah uhh... when you're done... with that cup of coffee... Yeah, Im going to need you to go ahead and uh take down this number.... Advise when you're ready to copy.
When the pilot said "foxtrot uniform" to the controller, I think there may have been a hidden message there.
lol
Yeah, I caught that too......Lol....My Dad was in the Army stationed in Germany right after WWII and he used to tell stories about those "euphemisms" that were used in the air!!
The pilot was reading back a taxi clearance, the taxiways are given letters.
Captain spilled his coffee after that Rejected Take-Off... Think he has had enough and called it a day!
"Tower possible controller deviation. I have a number for you to call when you are ready"
Imagine “my mistake” referring to the near-mass-death incident your mistake could have caused.
That controller was never the same, I’ll bet.
You could almost head the trembling in his voice. To me he seem terrified trying to have them abort that take off. However, pilots shouldn't blindly cross an active runway either, there are protocols to check both sides of the aircraft when crossing a runway. That whole incident should have been avoided on multiple levels. Almost disastrous.
that is if he still managed to keep his job because if I was his boss I would have to take a would think about it to not fire him after this MISTAKE, that could have caused a lot of deaths, it's a serious issue.
@@jo-eo9ld It's not a good job, a good job would have been to not put those aircrafts in danger on the first place. This was just a fortunate reaction at the last minute.
It seems like not many people realize how dangerous this was just because it was prevented at the last second.
Not everyone can be an Air Traffic Controller and if you don't have what it takes then you just don't do it, it's as simple as that. Nobody says it's easy, hell it is not at all, but if you chose to be an ATC then you have to be preppared to do what it's necesary to do your job an ensure passengers's safety (and crew safety as well)
Eh, the team brings you through it
Delta and South West is always getting into something
Cameron Evans well they are about the biggest companies. (Didn't check that, so if I'm wrong just disregard)
NORTHwest merged with Delta?
NORTH, SOUTH, east, west
Southwest is next.
@@randomperson4617 yeah. Didn't Northeast Airlines get bought by Delta back in the early 1970s? (O_o)
One mistake and such a huge delay..
Indeed... :S
SgtGo safety first
SgtGo Better the huge delay than the alternative.
Don't want another Tenarife.
Cg23sailor Oh God no. That was a massacre:(
The only delay that matters is between erratic takeoff clearance, abort call and full stop of the aircraft. Not good that such a delay exist at all, but in the end of a day it was short enough to prevent horrible disaster.
Tenerife was all about delays, you know.
Delta 873: Tower, are you ready for the number? 😏
ATC was speaking so bloody fast, I wouldn't have been able to even understand it as a takeoff clearance cancel. Glad I'm no pilot.
i mean. that day luckily had good vision. i think seeing the other machine cross right in front of him he could read the writing on the wall
Since covid air travel was hit hard including ATC. I’ve noticed some airports are running on reduced staff, tower & ground combined to one frequency is a good hint of that. I hope the guys get some help up there sooner than later. Is not only towers, TRACONs and centers are going through the same. Glad all worked out for the crew of both planes.
This was 4 years ago, nothing to do with Covid. It's just Atlanta is a busy airport in normal times, and people eventually make mistakes. Just a good thing they caught the mistake in time.
Pilot: That’s a possible ATC deviation I have a number when you are ready
The guy in the Tower might have a 30 year career with no accidents, but this is the incident that remains with him. It's an unforgiving job.
This is exactly why you're supposed to check left and right BEFORE you cross the runway even if ATC cleared you. Always check both ways before crossing this is elementary school stuff
If hes half a mile or more down the runway its going to be hard to tell what hes doing, for all the pilots know he was given a line up and wait.
Pilot: "Possible ATC Deviation, let me know when you are ready to copy a number"
ATC: "Fuck..."
if only the animation had smoke coming from the brakes
And the pilots' ears
I hope this didn't have any consequences for the controller. Despite his mistake, he was really quick to correct it. Well done!
"Yeah, we'll have to take a BREAK to check our BRAKE temperatures."
Was watching a few Airplane crash videos and ran across your videos...excellent work....it's hard to imagine what goes on day to day in the towers and your videos give us just a glimpse of the enormous pressure the controllers are under. Instantly hooked on your videos....appreciate it
Thanks, Dana! Welcome! :)
"Tower, this is Delta 873, do you have one of those blue forms? If so, _YOU_ need to fill it out and send it in..."
Hartsfield Ground: The most stressful job in the world for a controller.
I'm confused. At this point (and maybe there is now) how do all airports not have software leveraged by the ATC's that mark a runway as active until cleared takeoffs are confirmed to ensure no other traffic can possibly be routed over it?
Typical day in Atlanta where the Hartsfield ATC and pilots are as confused as the drivers on I-285........ The cities slogan should be "Line Up And Wait"
carbonking53 Was just driving there. I did plenty of the line up and wait biz.
I spent years flying into and out of ATL. It's the busiest airport but it runs safely and efficiently. There are some delays for weather (unavoidable) but they run a tight ship. It's Delta's "fortress hub" and ATC and the Delta crews have a very cooperative attitude.
Just an FYI - many years ago I remember a documentary that took a look at various jobs that were high risk. They did one of those "worse 10" countdowns. I do remember that the most dangerous job was North Sea Fishermen, but the most stressful job was an ATC. I can't imagine being responsible for 1000s of people on a daily basis.
so what happens when ATC controllers make a mistake do they get a second chance or immediate termination?
Certainly not immediate termination.
They know that they are human and shit happend. There was no accident, 'just' a near miss that got corrected in time to be safe. He might just get a vocal warning, might not even get a written one. However if it happend too often he will most likelly have to go back to training.
Jeff Dearman controllers are immediately pulled from duty to have a break if any near incident happens like it the video. Listen @ 1:26 as a new controller plugs in. This is to give the controller who nearly/did fuck up to get a breather in order to stop another clusterfuck happening right after.
Jeff Dearman same thing that happens to a pilot when they make a mistake. Lots of investigation, and depending on what happened, they could be terminated or suspended
It does depend on what happened but they are generally given x amount of minor freebies in a given time frame. I used to know exactly but it's been awhile, I want to say 3 minor violations in a year would get you canned. Obviously a incident with death or injury would be career ending. People are humans and will inevitably make mistakes, otherwise none of us would have jobs.
“Tower, you ready to take down a number? I need you to make a call” 🙃
The pilot should've told the controller "hey I need you to copy down this number"
When you're playing an ATC video game but you get bored and you want to see what it looks like when the planes crash
I want to understand this so bad but it all goes over my head. How do pilots keep track of what is going on?
If I were that controller, I'd be puking into the nearest trashcan as soon as that was over!
We all would demand a breather
"Tower, possible controller deviation. I have a number for you, when able."
I’m fascinated with flying and listen this stuff whenever I get a chance. What boggles my mind is why can’t they slow down and speak clearly to each other rather than creating a new language, chopping words and creating so much confusion.
I’m in a aviation school, the reason they use this language is to make up for some accents some people may have (ATC). The language, like Bravo Charlie Foxtrot is universal in the aviation industry and makes it easier for communication and service
1:37, Tower: Alien abduction in progress on open frequency, that sounds like a personal problem, please exist the airspace Inmediatly.
BP still rises thinking of ATL.First job was flying freight in light twins back when Eastern was still around. Gross,full throttle being told by ATC to keep it up as there was a 747 1/4 behind dragging his feet. Crossing the fence screaming ,dumping gear, full flaps,doing a 3 point carrier landing,full brakes to make the first exit. Spent 1/4 of my life sitting on Dixie.
Tower: Delta 873, we have reports of, uhhhhh, light chops at the end of the runway, cancel takeoff clearance
In a case like this, does this where the controller makes a mistake, what happens to the controller? Is he/she sacked or put on leave. Or are they sent for a retraining assessment?
Does ATL have runway incursion lights that would have been visible to the crossing jet? Would that have been cause to double check with the tower?
if tower tells me I'm cleared to cross, I'm crossing as soon as possible. no lighting or signage is going to stop me. 99% of the time that controller has a better idea of what's going on than I do
Clayton Ramsey And 1% of the time he doesn't and you get hit by a plane on takeoff. Red stop lights take precedence over clearances and it doesn't cost you much to x-check with the controller. Probably less than 5s. I don't assume you would be willing to bring the life of hundreds of people at risk just to safe these 5s.
MrKnisterGer I'm not a pilot, but since incursion lights were installed due to so many pilot and controller errors, what you say makes sense. Assume the lights are more often correct than the controller.
In the real world, is that what pilots are expected to do? Is that what they really do?
flinx it's not necessarily that the lights are more often correct than the controllers, but if both give contradictory information it's obvious that there is some confusion or misunderstanding. That's the time to ask for clarification.
Some airports are installing reds lights in the runway centerlines and at runway crossings. If those red lights are on you do not cross/start takeoff roll no matter what the controller says. The lights are automated and do not work off of any input from the controller. If an aircraft is detected crossing a runway the red lights in the runway centerline come on indicating to an airplane lined up for takeoff that the runway is not clear. If an aircraft starts its takeoff roll it is detected by the system and the red lights come on at runway crossings.
A absolute nightmare for the controller, fortunately he caught it right away, pilot was VERY gracious. Pilots...ALWAYS look both ways when crossing any runway! This controller will NEVER forget this error, hopefully others will learn as well.
You definitely know that controller got written up and had to answer some tough questions. I've seen this happen here and the controller is immediately pulled from duty in these cases.
As they should be. It is common for people to think about mistake they did, thinking what they could do better and they are prone to lose focus and make many more mistakes during that time because of lowered concentration. Really bad situation for traffic controller who has to be 100% focused.
@Patricia A. Badea I guess ATL handles these matters a bit differently. We'll agree to disagree.
Do the ATCs have animations like these on screen or do they have actual aerial view for overall picture?
Something similar to this.
Kind of a double standard when it comes to atc and pilots making communication errors. If it was the other way around, there would have been multiple investigations.
I completely understand the controller, everyone messes up sometimes and I’m sure being an ATC at an intl airport can be a stressful job. Props to him for keeping his cool, catching his mistake and genuinely owning up for it, and props to the delta pilot for not getting annoyed and keeping it professional.
In such an extreme situation I would expect a ''stop immediately'', or ''abort'', but this message for me was far from being clear.
13rdp You have a valid point, but there is a certain lingo, cadence, and all around method used in aviation, and "stop" or "abort" would have been no clearer to the pilot than "Cancel take-off." Although, "abort take-off" is common also. If you notice, there was no confusion as to what to do, the pilots weren't clear as to who needed to do it.
All in all, from the outside looking in you make a good point.
13rdp
Cancel Clearance is the standard terminology.
Pootube Doodle I think cancel takeoff was more suitable than cancel clearance. In this scenario it seems less likely to confuse one of the pilots
"Cancel Takeoff Clearance" is straight out of the book. It's exactly what the controller is supposed to say and pilots should recognize the seriousness of it.
Not if your radio goes derp and you only hear takeoff. Think about Tenerife
Funny how ATC can make as many mistakes as they like but if a pilot made a mistake half that bad, they'd be scolding him and giving them a number to call to be scolded and have their job and livelihood threatened.
And @1:30 is when the supervisor takes over, you know the other guy got in trouble!
yep, right after the trip to the bathroom to vomit.
Not necessarily. You do have to do paperwork after a runway incursion happens
"Delta 749, hold short of runway 27R at TANGO"
Changing frequency to 123.85
The other controller gives clearance to take off for Delta 873
"Delta 749, cross 27R runway" - new person's voice from new frequency (123.85)
So, changing ATC controler made entire confusion probably.
Good reaction to new ATC, kudos for fast spotting that dangerous mistake.
And this is why I watch these videos instead of working for atc... I love everything about ATC but I would never be able to make it out of training...
I'm surprised that the clearance cancelation was not made clearer...
All you hear is "wharglble whargable"... Should go instead : "CANCEL TAKEOFF !!"
Tower: Delta 995, 27R line up and wait. I'll be right with you.
Pilot: Just to verify, its Delta 9-5-5, line up and wait.
Tower: 995, 27 Right, line up and wait. Thanks
Pilot: Line up and wait, Delta 965
I swear I heard the pilot read back the callsign incorrect.
1:40
He said delta nine fifty five on the readback, with the static etc it does sound a little like 65.
yeah, seemed dubious, but overall pretty sure it was an 'f' sound not 's'
Great work to all involved once the mistake was realized. But I'm actually surprised that that there isn't a more computerized form of clearances where the crossing plane can't be cleared until the taking off plane has left the runway or vice versa. I know in the railroad world, there are sections of "dark territory" that don't have any kind of signals, and hybrid sections that have signals but only for safety, all movement authorizations are made verbally from dispatch (though that's changing with the implementation of Positive Train Control). However, all the dispatcher does now is stuff the info in a computer, and then read nearly verbatim what the computer spits back out. They still look at the screen with a schematic of the tracks which shows what train has been cleared where, and the computer just won't let them bring up a clearance that would conflict, same as if they're directly controlling the signals. Sure, a dispatcher could get on a radio and verbally issue their own conflicting clearance, but that requires actual malice rather than just a mistake.
Wait wait wait did I just hear a controller take responsibility for a mistake?
ATC is one of those jobs where you are not allowed to make a mistake. Like not one.... and if you do you’re in big trouble... so you have to go an entire career virtually making no mistakes.... so you’re not allowed to be human. What a job 🙁
I bet his heart went straight through his stomach.
Wow... Did the airport run out of coffee? None of these people seem to be fully awake.
Shows that we are all human and make mistakes. However the pilot crossing the runway should have checked right before moving across the runway. The atc controller should be in the shit for that.
Not true. Some of us are chipmunks.
It is very common that due to the slope of the runway, you dont see what is at the other end.
Looked right? This runway could be 2-3 miles long, do you really think you could make out an aircraft moving at passenger car speeds at 2 miles from your current?
It would look just like he is standing still and the pilot is trusting the ATC to know what he is doing.
Really love all these explanations to what us layman ponder. Thanks guys.
Not a pilot or controller, but I am amazed at the concentration required of the controllers. It's got to be nerve wracking! I wouldn't last 10 minutes trying to do that job.
Delt eitsvnthre cancltakoclera
So good I'm not a pilot especially at this airport cause the controller talked so damn fast that I would have never ever understood that my takeoff was cancelled.
When ATC wants his own Tenerife
"Delta 873 cancel takeoff clearance."
[no response]
"Delta 873 cancel takeoff clearance..."
[no response]
*"...DEHHHH EIGHT SEH, TEE, DEET-"*
Btw I'm not knocking the controller it's a hard job. Hope he got a coffee break after that.
I hope he got disciplined after that
And he read it super fast so all Delta prolly heard was the callsign
@@Twib01 he probably had a number to call lol
I don't understand how they understand the speaker from the tower. I was reading what they were saying and then I closed my eyes and could not fathom a word.
OMG... glad all made it alive... KLM/PAN AM 1970s style tragedy averted...
This is seriously one of the coolest channels ever. So interesting to listen to. Even more so as someone who has a ton of anxiety flying. I rarely do it. This channel has amplified that anxiety. Lol. But hey, I'm a glutton for punishment.
I feel ATC should have been a little more emphatic than 'cancel takeoff clearance'. This could have ended badly.
It should have been a take off abort immediately or all-stop, something a little bit more assertive.
If you guys haven't already done so could you please do a video explaining some of the taxiing radio terminology? What does it mean when they say Lima, Lima? I know these are taxiing waypoints... But all they actually saying ?