SSP Cast Lab Sweet burrs - any good? | DF83V vs DF64 gen2.
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2024
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keep the great content coming! :)
Thx for watching!
I'm really glad i discovered this channel!
Thx for finding me. We will be comparing 83mm SSP MP vs LS soon.
Great video as always
Thank you for watching.
Hi. I usually don’t make comments just to make a comment. I watch all your reviews and comparisons. I really enjoy your honest opinions and your ability not to over complicate them. Thank you for your time and dedication and sharing your experience with all of us.
Thank you very much for your kind words.
Thanks for the comparison. Your English is not broken.
Thank you for your kind words!
He is kinda broken, but his speaky speaky is fine..
@@Hemshemsems hello , my name is Borat 😛
@@mycoffeeshow111 No no no, its from a punchline of Frankie Boyle, a very polished scottish comedian.. 😉
@@mycoffeeshow111lol!! My experience has been that 95% of people that criticize someone’s accent can’t speak another language. Translation: you’re doing just fine. And probably a lot better than them. I just had an eye exam done by a French lady from Montréal. She had a very slight, delicate and quite pleasing accent. She stumbled over one word (and quickly corrected and got it right) and actually apologized for her English. I told her that her English was far better than my French. Never mind she’s a doctor with at least a dozen years of higher education!!
I am waiting my Zerno Z1 with Cast Burrs install. I like your review to these burrs.
Thank you for watching. I would love to have Zerno myself. You are lucky man.
Thanks for the showdown :) I would LOVE to see a comparison of the 64 & 83 multipurpose burrs ;P
Thx for watching! I got 83mp recently so at some point will do that as well.
@@mycoffeeshow111 Amazing :D looking forward to it!
thanks for the helpful comparison! not as much discussion of lab sweet as MP or Cast available online
Thx for watching. Cast and Lab sweet refers to the same burrs but you are right- most choose between MP and HU. I should be testing MP in the next month or so
You're right! LOL how did I not know lab sweet and cast are the same? argh. also I believe MP v1 and brew 64 are the same
@@uncola6028 the last bit I didn’t know. You live and learn 😁
Thanks for the Video! very intresting, i've just bought a mazzer major VP for my standart espressos and i want to change the burrs to the 83HU or the 83LS... cannot decide :D
Thx for watching. I would not recommend Hu burrs. The improvement is not worth the price. I would say LS or MP is a better option. Just put MP in today myself. 😁
I enjoy your reviews/videos. You should have more subscribers.
Thank you very much! I believe so too 😛
The sound effects! :D
Haha, I try to play a bit here and there 😁
Before, i had DF64 with SSP High Speed burrs. About 6 months i am using Ceado e37sd with Opal Glide 83mm burrs. Their geometry is completely different than most of the burrs in market and i can say that i am very pleased from results. I can even ground Turkish coffee with them. They have dramatically less chaff, clarity and much more pleasant texture and body in mouth. Also when i was using SSP burrs i was happy about taste and aromas but after Opal Glides i realized these give more layered aromas and taste of coffee. Maybe also grinder itself has some affect on those with slower rpm and more torque.
Thx for the info. Never heard about Opal Glide burrs. Will have to check them out.
Wanted to see mp burr comparison ❤
I have 64mm mp. Can’t find used 83mm MP anywhere and the brand new ones are soo pricey.
Another great video Jack - thanks! How would you say the SSP Cast burrs do against their respective DLC burr in 64mm and 83mm?
Thank you! I talked about it a bit at the end. DLC are like a quieter version of Cast. Good by themselves but Cast are better. On my gen 2 df64 the standard burrs are Chinese but not DLC and tbh I haven’t tried them for a while. I think they were slightly brighter and with a bit less body than Cast.
I just built a custom ditting kr 804 that i got for very cheap . Im planning to put 80mm blind cast burrs in , good timing for the video
Wow, you must be very confident at DIY. I heard that those 80mm are even better than 83mm. Please let me know how you like them. Good luck
@@mycoffeeshow111 oh yeah im almost done , the retention on those is very low. I contacted ssp to see if they would re-sharped the orginial burrs and if those 80mm would finner than typical espresso, i enjoy turkish coffee from time to time
@@The_Coffee_Rabbit_Hole has ssp answered? Never knew they would do something like that.
My cast took 20kg before they really shined, In espresso I found 64mm hard to dial in the room was indeed quite small, on 83 it was drastically bigger this meant I’m able to tailor the shot much more and those get far more different result. On filter on all the coffee I tasted the difference was very mute a slight edge perhaps on 83, would not say it was nearly as noticeable as for espresso. Again my 64mm had plus
20kg through them, I look forward to see how the 83 behave once I get to that.
I agree that it’s not high clarity burrs, but personally I found that to be preferable to heavy processed coffee and variety and terroir with bass notes something I always found off putting on many high clarity burrs.
Thank you for sharing your experience. 20kg seems a lot but with my coffee consumption it shouldn’t be a problem.
I am getting very tasty cups from those burrs. Next I need to get 83mm MP.
I jad the SSP cast burrs on DF64 gen1, couldnt choke my flair58.
Also SSP HU.
I got the DF64 gen2, SSP HU are around 5 to 9.
I think with the DF64V i had better range with ssp HU, liked it more but was afraid about the stalling issue plus ut was more money. I got a better deal on the df64 gen2 open box.
Maybe ill try the DF83V2 when it is available one day.
In colnclusion i find it hard to dial finenenough with DF64 and SSP on a F58. I didnt have an issue with flair classic (49mm) bc of the smaller size basket. But was making 2 back to back lattes 14g each so now i make a 21-22g latte on the F58. I still think the 49mm flair classic (tadted) better.
Thx for sharing your experience. If you can, get DF83v - lots of fun to play with.
Never used Flair 58 but maybe increase the dosage- should help.
I rarely say these things on RUclipsrs but i really like your channel en the effort you put in these videos.
I just have the dv83v with the lab sweet pre installed, been using it for two weeks. And till now i received very mixed feelings on initial tastes. They say these burrs really need a lot seasoning and maybe this is what ik experiencing in this first results. I've been trying out small bags of different types of coffee and till now it looks as if with some coffee types it works great and for some others less.
So can you give your opinion on what kind of coffee you think performed really well with the lab sweets. I haven't tried much traditional coffee the somewhat darker or medium dark roast or like say a more classic Italian tasting types of coffee but im assuming the burrs would work better on these coffee. In comparison with the lighter roast or medium light, fruity kinds of coffee i get very mixed results with what im not really sure i like.
Thx for your kind words. I have another video where I compare cast with MP with standard DLC. (ruclips.net/video/5Xp85UVm22k/видео.htmlsi=iVD70ZpPFl5jvWHP)
I would recommend to season them with at least 5-7kg of coffee.
Thoes burrs can take average coffee and make it into very good one but they can also make very interesting coffee slightly boring. I would say they can work with any roast but experiment with different rpm until you hit what you are looking for. Try going as low as 500.
@@mycoffeeshow111 do you think variation in RPM does anything noticable for espresso? As I don't do pour overs.
It's a bit uncharted territory for me.
Seasoning.. im still maybe around 2 kg but someone mentioned it might influence the after taste if you do the seasoning with low quality beans as these oils will probably stick to the burrs but i don't know honestly
@@hasankalayci6286 I have a video where I explore different rpms. Try it yourself but what I notice is that higher rpm offers more body and less details in your cup vs less body and more clarity on lower settings. If you go too low though, the shots are flat.
As for seasoning, I used low quality coffee. I would purge the grinder afterwards b4 trying proper beans.
Hello nice video as always. Sorry for nitpicking but df83 is an auger feed grinder unlike df64 so maybe the difference is mostly because the slower feed in df83. Maybe with slow feeding the df64 the results wouldn't be the same ;)
Thx for watching. Obviously everything is possible. Not sure what fhe feeding rate of DF83v is. DF64 with cast burrs was difficult to dial in as it was. With slow feeding you need to grind even finer wihich would be impossible.
@@mycoffeeshow111 You find your grinding close to the DF83's limit? I found with slow feeding, high extracting basket, for light roast espresso (small 16g doses too) especially with shaking I'm pretty much at the limit, if I grind finer I risk backing up the grinder where it gets clogged up. I'm talking about the regular DF83 (not V).
@@BensCoffeeRants honestly I haven’t had any issues with DF83v. Maybe because the burrs are vertical. My original df83 I managed to clogg few times usually after long period of not using it or when seasoning burrs.
Hi, thanks for the Videos. I am a big Fan of your Channel. What are your favorite 83mm burrrs. I got the df83. I am thinking about an Upgrade. Please let me know. Cheers DeinBarista
Thx for your kind words. I really like those Cast burrs. Haven’t tried MP but should be good as well. I didn’t like HU so sold them some time ago. I am not a big fan of Mazzer burrs from Niche Duo. DLC stock burrs from DF83v are very good for the price as well.
@@mycoffeeshow111 Were the Mazzer Duo burrs 'too plain or pleasant'-good but "dull" vs even DF83 DLC burrs- is that what you'd say you disliked about them? Or was the dislike with Duo Mazzer mainly because you prefer lighter roasts- and they perform better with medium roasts and then DLC are just as good? Second your dislike of the 83mm HU was because they just didn't provide enough difference from either Mazzer Duo stock or DF83 DLC unless with certain light roasts and so were too limited & expensive for little gain? Thank you. Your comparisons are much appreciated.
@@nittygritty7434 thx for watching. Let’s start with HU. I have never compared them directly with DLC burrs. There was a difference in terms of brightness and clarity vs Italmil burrs and they won blind tests against Mazzer burrs (pour overs and espresso) but my issue with them is that they are not very specific and the improvement is not big enough to justify the price.
Mazzer burrs were lacking in terms of clarity and sometimes I was left with slightly bitter aftertaste but few times I went for them vs DLC in blind testing.
having MP in my 64 i ordered some lab sweet coated in RED for my DF 83, i hope i made a good move to get a different vibe on my espresso shots :D
Wow, those red LS burrs look awesome. After some seasoning you should love them. Please share your experience with us here.
@@mycoffeeshow111will do 😋
The auger probably helps with the clarity. Do a hot slow feed with the 64 and lets see
@@matthewzamora1470 you could have a point although slow feed on DF83v would also change the overall results.
I agree, the flavors from 83mm burrs are better. They are usually sweeter, more.pleasant acidity and better clarity than their 64mm counterparts. I have also noticed that many burr sets increase in clarity as you season them.
Yeah, at first I wasn’t sure about the whole seasoning but now I am a believer. It does work. Not sure how but it improves the overall experience.
Rougly what grind setting range do you find most common for pour over on the gen 2 with lab sweets?
Obviously it depends on many things. I think around 70 would be a good starting point.
What do you find is your filter range on the 83v with the LS burrs?
I have to go really high, like 75-80.
Just got the CV2 for my 064S but the shot tends to run fast even when I am grinding near chirping, may I know if you were able to get slower shot after seasoning it?
Seasoning rarely slows down the shots, if anything, it can make them faster ( but more consistent). Have you tried to recalibrate your grinder? Possibly that would help.
I’ve tried aligning it, however the shot is still faster than a traditional shot. Not sure what’s the problem as I’ve heard CV2 is capable of pulling traditional shots
@@huiherng3419 there are few versions of those burrs. Mine doesn’t really work well for espresso but some viewers mention theirs works well.
I am sure you already checked the position of the pin (0 point ) on 064s but if you haven’t, this can help: ruclips.net/user/shortszMxBdeyyM9Q?si=9oYpxF5qqRR2vKVa
I have 83v2 with stock burrs. Would ssp sweet labs be an upgrade? Looking for sweeter shots and less bitter aftertaste.
I really like those LS burrs and yes, would recommend them. Just remember they require lots of seasoning
@@mycoffeeshow111thank you!
I put some DLC expresso burrs on my DF83 version 2. I have been having a hard time dialing them in. I can't get it to grind a consistent expresso sized grind. I think I will be looking for something else in the future. The 83mm sweet labs seem interesting.
Interesting. DLC are relatively easy. Maybe some more seasoning is required? 83 mm SSP LS are really tasty.
@@mycoffeeshow111 I really wanted the DLC burrs to work. I have taken time to align the burrs. I even took them out and put them back in changing the upper/lower orientation thinking maybe one burr is meant to be a stationary burr (though not inscribed on them). And I realigned them. The rotating burr was pretty well squared to the grinder. The stationary burr needed only a small amount of shimming. I will try running more beans through. But when I get the grind to a 8 bar 25 second shot it sends streams of coffee out in many directions. I only had a 1-2 increment window for expresso on the dial before the shots became very long/low pressure turbo style shots. I have put the Italmil burrs back on (aligned) to test things out. They seem to work fine. Others seem to have had decent luck with using the DLC expresso burrs. I am still trying to figure out my issues with them. Perhaps running a few K of coffee through hem will calm them down. Thanks.
@@endoalley680 very strange indeed. Not sure what to advise. Almost like if you had pour over burrs instead of espresso.
@@mycoffeeshow111 I thought that may be the case. But the profile of the cutters looks similar to that of the SSP high uniformity burrs. With a long bean breaker ridge followed by seven or eight shorter cutters. In a repeating pattern around the burr. My gut feeling is that there is a minor defect in the cutting of one of the burrs. I am hoping that sufficient use will wear it in enough that it won’t be an issue eventually. I am not one of those extremely picky people looking for the slightest defect to tell the world about. I am just seeing if anybody has had a similar issue. And how they may have remedied it. Thanks.
I didn't love the V2 64mm Cast burrs, I don't know if I had put enough coffee through them to have seasoned them but I think manufacturers shouldn't be releasing products if they suck as bad as they did for the first year to three years of use for most people! Reminded me of a cheaper conical burr grinder with the lack of clarity, but also just didn't seem nice / sweet or tasty very often. The Df83 with stock italmill burrs pre-seasoning (and pre declumper mod) was sweet, mild, nice body, and didn't feel like I was missing out on clarity much, that's more like what the SSP cast burrs SHOULD have been like. Hopefully v3 is better, but I have a feeling that geometry just works better in larger size.
Hello V3 is for Espresso (more fines) and V2 will be continu as a filter burrs. V2= filter V3= Espresso. You didn't like v2 for Espresso or filter ? Or both ? I really like them for filter not for Espresso (too muddy)
@@jorisfassina3789 I remember comparing with my other grinders and burrs for aeropress and found they're either worse to me just ok at best. Some people seem to like em and I thought I remembered liking them initially for espresso too which is weird. Like do they do ok initially for a few lbs then need 15lbs of seasoning? I tried the similar style optionO Mizen omni burrs and thought they were good out of the box for espresso but had some astringency for pour over and aeropress but that went away after a little seasoning.
@@BensCoffeeRants maybe one day I will try V3 64mm cast but first I want 83mm MP. Any opinion on the other version of cast 83mm, those of reddish-golden colour?
@@mycoffeeshow111 I haven't tried them in 83mm, I'm assuming the only difference is the coating type? Word on the street is that red speed is supposed to give more fines and generally be better for espresso where the silver knight coating is supposed to have less fines and be better for filter. I think if you got the silver ones, you got the right choice if you wanted more clarity. Yet still not enough?.
Coating dos nothing in terms of PSD so no they don’t produce more or less fines, what it dos is influence static and heat build up and those retention however in SD usage the effects on coating is rather questionable especially once you do RDT.
Cast requires massive kg through them, you might get lucky with 10kg, but normally cast burrs require 20kg through them and you still see them improve all the way till about 100kg! I’m not joking. Cast burrs last thousands of kg so it takes a lot of time to break them in. The burrs are the least home friendly burrs in existence largely because of the massive amount of kg to run them in. Many who aren’t satisfied are largely because they haven’t had remotely enough coffee through them or they are seeing the effects of poor alignment.
Are these different from the SSP Lab Sweet Cast Burrs?
Yeah, they call them LS as well. Maybe I should put it in the title
@@mycoffeeshow111 I was thinking if I saw a set used already seasoned I might try them. How do you think they compare to SSP HU burrs?
@@erikasoldit Maybe I wasn’t fair towards HU but for me they are difficult to describe, not in a good way. You kinda feel the improvement but don’t know exactly where.
@@mycoffeeshow111 Interesting. I have SSP HU on my df83v. This is my first flat burr grinder experience.
@@mycoffeeshow111 I don't think they ever called them lab sweet in 64mm since that's another brands name for similar looking burrs! But people kept calling them that! and I think I've seen them labelled Lab sweet for the 83mm version now (the people helped name it I guess).
Have you seasoned your LS 83mm burrs? If yes, how much?
Looks like someone hasn’t watched till the end (😛) where I mentioned I put about 6kg through each. Another 2-3kg and it should be fully seasoned.
@@mycoffeeshow111 shame on me! I watched to the end, must have forgotten with my goldfish memory, watched it again, but second time not until the end 🙈 thanks!
@@chris_huelsemeyer any time! Are you considering LS burrs yourself?
@@mycoffeeshow111 have them myself as of today. Dark roast was actually lively delicious and sweet. Light DAK milky cake had massive channeling, did not get it dialed in yet. Burrs are aligned, but I guess now I do need to season my LS 83mm for lighter roasts. Did not have this on the Italmill 83mm and DF64 Gen2 with the Milky Cake beans and same workflow
@@chris_huelsemeyer to reach their full potential you will need to season them for sure. Surprised with channeling though, as they tend to produce more fines which should at least mask the problem.
It seems there is quite a bit of discrepancy with the 64mm Cast V2. I was grinding between 7 and 15 marks on the DF64V with well aligned and seasoned CV2 (18 months old). Many owners like Jack are having to grind near 0 point for espresso.
Although I'm suspecting Jack is using his Wafo Spirit basket which requires an even finer grind.
I have since switched to 64 Mizen OM and after 3 months of usage, they definitely have more clarity and vibrancy but a touch less body VS 64mm SSP Cast. I'm also grinding much finer with these.
The original Ditting LS Cast were also more brew oriented but espresso capable.
Overall, I'd say the biggest advantage of Cast burrs is their versatility. They do everything well. From light to dark roasts and from modern or classic espresso to pour over.
Thank you for all the info and I do agree with your final statement. For pour over I like both sizes. For espresso 83mm perform really well. Sometimes the shot tastes more pleasant than even from Max 2
One word Hansung, more words he is notorious known for alternating his burrs constantly meaning one batch from one period might not behave like one from a later batch from another year….
@@mikni4069 I didn’t know that. Thanks for info!
Hi Jack, I know you don’t like 83HU that much but I think it is because you had it in DF83 which has a lot of regrinding for its design.
Would be great if you compare HU vs LS in DF83V. Or even include MP.
I have HU in Df83, slowfeed certainly improve taste quite a lot. Curius to try LS if it make big difference.
Hi, you might be right. I don’t say HU were bad. I was just expecting more from them. I sold them some time ago but I recently bought MP and will compare them with LS.
@@mycoffeeshow111thanks, I always wonder how are these 3 burrs perform if they are in a better grinder, I mean low regrinding. Some say HU is brighter than LS if no regrinding due to its uniformity as intended by HanSung the maker.
@@thamtham4924 well, HU is definitely brighter. All depends on coffee and personal preferences
@@mycoffeeshow111 pls give us some feedback of MPs
@@BirleDaniel great for pour overs, especially if you like clear, fruity and sour notes. I still haven’t decided if I like them for espresso, mostly because I am in process of testing different filter baskets now.
came here for answers, left with more questions.... Great review though, thank you
Thx for watching. What questions do you have. Will try to answer if I can.
Which one of those 2 grinder I should get and whether if it's worth changing their burrs :) @@mycoffeeshow111
@@kulkulan223 DF83V and yes if you want more flavour change the burrs. Which burrs to choose depends on what you like in your cup. I would be choosing between MP and Cast. Try stock burrs first and see how you like them. If you enjoy what they offer, go for Cast. Otherwise go for MP. I am not a fan of HU burrs.
Thank you for the reply! My other concern is that I don't have a massively expensive espresso machine (Lelit Elizabeth) so I am not sure if getting a somewhat relatively expensive grinder like the 83 will make a massive difference compared to the 64, since it's almost double the price. What do you think?@@mycoffeeshow111
@@kulkulan223 hmmm, good question. Almost all coffee experts would agree that we should start upgrading our setups with a grinder. Shot by shot DF83v in (terms of taste) will be lets say 20% more enjoyable. Is it worth paying extra for that? You need to answer yourself.
are these version 1 or 2 burrs?
64mm arr very possibly the older version. Not sure about 83mm. I know there is another one, golden in colour
It's version 2 as far as we can see from the video
@@mycoffeeshow111unless one burr looks different than the other, it's version 2 you've got (with 7 flat surfaces per section). The new version 3 has one identical burr to what we can see in your video, and another with more teeth.
@@jonas5666 thx for the info. Will have to put my glasses on and check
@@mycoffeeshow111 no need for glasses 🙂 V 3 is actually stamped in the casting
It is almost impossible to tell one is better over other. So trying everything that you could and make your own decision is what I feel is the takeaway from this video. Thank you.
Thank you very much. I try to be as objective as possible. The main flavour notes are the same. I often have more depth from bigger burrs and a bit less harmony from the smaller ones.
After 2kg of beans you are going to zone-in on those flavours, so I suspect that running-in or,grinding-in the burrs is in our heads? The burrs are so hard they can’t change physically to make the changes we anecdotally detect.
I don’t know how to explain this and I would agree with you if not for the fact that my pour over coffee bed is significantly less muddy than at the beginning. The same with shots time. They were taking longer at the beginning. Same coffee, same recipe ect.
@@mycoffeeshow111 it is curious, I wonder if a scientific analysis was done, that no difference would be apparent in the grinds in the basket, it’s our minds that interpret what our taste buds detect that combined with our knowledge of what we are doing, and preconceived ideas that seasoning of burrs is a thing, all adds to our perception. We are flawed. I suspect the difference is mostly in our heads.
@@firmbutton6485 who knows. Till officially confirmed or denied, I will believe that seasoning works.
What about medium to darker roasts? Everything these days is about the light and fruity coffees 😕
You are right. Even if I wanted to, is difficult to buy good quality dark roast. Having said that, 83mm cast burrs should be perfect for that.
you're drinking too much coffee from poland (which i actually buy too) are you polish? xd
Yes I am from Poland but don’t drink that much coffee from there. Only when I visit my family I bring a pack or two back to London . Would like to promote more roasters from there in the future.
@@mycoffeeshow111 hopefully i can see you once there and we can drink coffee once that would be EPIC ( i live in poland near katowice )
@@aliabdulaziz9804 I was there, near Katowice recently, like 2 weeks ago
let me know if you will be there again, i would really love to drink with you a coffee @@mycoffeeshow111
@@aliabdulaziz9804 sure thing. Thx
I disagree regarding your recommendation against the 64mm cast burrs for espresso. Did you check/adjust your alignment and zero point on the DF64 Gen2? I would bet you have an issue there if you're having a tough time going fine enough to achieve your targets.
I own a DF64 Gen2 with the cast burrs and have no trouble going fine enough to choke the machine. Often my grind size for espresso is between 17-21 depending on the bean, with the occasional exceptions outside of that range. This remains the case for various profiles- blooming, londinium, etc., and I'm using a Pullman basket with paper filters.
If I slow feed then I need to adjust about 5 stops finer, but that still puts me in the 12-16 range.
Which version of cast burrs do you have? I heard it is a common issue with those older ones. I tried them on my previous DF64 and had the same problem, even after aligning them. This time I haven’t bothered with aligning, as I said in one of my previous videos- I won’t be doing it any more. It takes too much time. Obviously I still check the zero point.
I have the silver version. They were installed by the retailer I purchased from about a month ago.
@@KartDad there are at least 2 versions of silver burrs. The previous one is slightly bigger hence I struggle with fine grinding
@@mycoffeeshow111 oh boy...had no idea there were multiple versions. That makes things tricky.
Aligned sk lscs v2 on 54mm ims basket with puck screen on df64 gen 2. Done about 4kg of beans through so far.
Settings 8-10 from burr touching for medium roast. Decafs I have to go setting 2. I used to slow feed with my stock dlc burrs but could not grind fine enough with lscs v2 burrs so reverted to not slow feeding. I find the espresso range very small and have to do in-between setting numbers to adjust flow rate.
Sorry, but your editing makes your videos chaotic, noisy, painful and stress-inducing. Are you like this when you do your main job and massage people for money? Bring back the relaxing style and I will watch more. No slurping noises!
Hahaha, I guess you will hate my recent video then. I see your point though. Thx for the feedback.