Dizzyingly Complex Counterpoint in Bach's BWV 80 Cantata, "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott”
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
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Richard Atkinson analyzes the dizzyingly complex counterpoint in the opening chorus of J. S. Bach's BWV 80 cantata, "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott". This is a fair use educational commentary that uses excerpts from a recording by La Chapelle Royale and Collegium Vocale, directed by Philippe Herreweghe. The excerpt from Handel's "Messiah" is from a recording by Bach Collegium Japan.
Bach only ends his pieces out of practicality. You get the feeling he can keep the counterpoint going for eternity if he wanted.
Yeah he doesn't ever really use all possible combinations
That’s basically the claim of the first part of Laurence Dreyfus’ “Bach and the Patterns of Invention.” Great work.
@@1jesus2music3duke -- I don't agree -- there is wonderful sense of appropriate timing to Bach's conclusions -- his sense of form prevails over uncontrolled polyphonic proficiency.
Joseph O'Leary But why the assumed either/or? Bach does both. You can hear a sense of potentially limitless polyphonic proliferation AND fitting resolution.
He is the most well tempered composer of all time.
I can't listen to Bach without starting to tear up. Not only is the level of complexity and ingenuity dizzying, but it's not done for purposes of showing off - it's all in service of creating incredible music that can be enjoyed perfectly well by someone who has no idea of, or interest in, any of the complexities going on. The most perfect fusion of mathematical perfection with the human soul ever achieved, and all for the glory of God, nothing could be more fitting or notable.
The fact that he could produce pieces like this of unerrant quality at an utterly astonishing rate further signifies his supreme genius. A few composers might have been able to come up with something like this through months of agonising effort and their results would most likely have seemed some cold exercise rather than a truly moving piece of music, but it seemed to flow effortlessly from Bach.
Well said, sir. You 'get' it.
One further thing is worth mentioning: Bach's music here isn't abstract. It's like a Baroque painting. The dense and dizzyingly complex counterpoint is here for a reason: Bach is showing us an army surging into battle. Each fugal and stretto entrance of choral voices is a battalion charging forward. That's why everything is constantly punctuated with military trumpets playing the cantus firmus, which we can imagine sounding from the ramparts of the "Mighty Fortress."
When the chorus sings "Der alte böse Feind" ("That ancient evil foe"), Bach syncopates the melody, a frequent indication of perversity in his music, and gives us a chromatic bass line. Chromaticism generally depicts either suffering or bad behavior in Bach's musical language.
The crisis of the ancient evil foe's adversity pervades this entire section up to the end of "Seine grausam Rüstung ist" where it reaches a tense and dire climax on an F# chord, the dominant of the relative minor (Will the Devil's forces win the battle?), that's resolved in the final section when we return to D major.
I'm betting that Mr. Atkinson, who posted and narrates this terrific video, knows all this and might be able add further comments on Bach's pictorial technique.
the trumpets were added later by his son Wilhelm Friedmann Bach
So Bach is an 'Impressionist' now? 😂 Lol, talk about revisionism! 🤣
Note: Many people have strong objections to the inclusion of trumpets and timpani in this movement (added later by Bach’s son, Wilhelm Friedemann Bach). I chose to use a recording and score with the added parts because I prefer this version, even if it is blasphemous to some. Certainly for the purposes of this video, it renders the spectacular canonic entries more audible than in recordings where the oboes alone play these passages. Moreover, in my opinion, the addition of timpani and trumpets helps to better portray the subject matter (a mighty or secure fortress), and is stylistically consistent with something Bach himself would have done. Study his dozens of other cantata choruses with prominent trumpet passages if you would like to compare - some of my favorite examples: BWV 172, 63 (opening and closing choruses), 66, 119, and many others.
Why would it be blasphemy? Bach isn't God...
He is for some people (ex, for me). But i dont find this blasphemous tho
And if anyone in the world is qualified to alter J. S. Bach's music, one would think his own som would be among those people.
Thanks for the excellent analysis!
Richard Atkinson heterodoxy in the name of clarity is no sin! Blaspheme on! I will put in a good word for you on Judgement Day!
I'm skeptical that you'd have this opinion without prior knowledge that it wasn't part of the original conception. Also, I was mainly talking about the top trumpet part that plays the canonic cantus firmus, making this part of the counterpoint less obscured (oboes get lost in the texture). I suppose you may be right about the other trumpets and timpani.
The mind is boggled by the genius of Bach. The ingenuity and brilliance of the counterpoint is almost beyond belief. Of course, what's even greater is that all the great technique results in great and moving music. Thanks, Richard, for a great job of illuminating some of the intricacies of this masterpiece.
Yes, its utterly beautiful.Like it writes itself without much effort ,but then you look at the score and realize there's a scientist at work.
It seems like the application of rules ie counterpoint derived from thematic material strictly limits possibilities down from the infinite, and then when you combine that with the genius of someone like Bach and the hard work of having maxed out his capacity of working with these combinations until he intuitively understood what possibilities lay within thematic material, you get stuff like what you have here.
Something one learns after years of, writing music, and counterpoint, and improvising, with an ensemble... is that the rules exist because a whole series of people noticed that: what is beautiful, is an exploration of certain laws of symmetry. The frequencies used in music have simple ratio relationships,... which were expanded, and expounded upon, around the 17th-18th century with the realization that by slightly altering the minor second, (tempered tuning) one could modulate through the circle of fifths, endlessly. But the ratio of modulating up or down a fifth (scale degree)... which is actually based on multiplying the frequency by 3 or dividing by three, gives one a 'ground' of a different frequency, and allows for new exploration of a new harmonic series. so it is not so much that Baroque composers such as Bach, or Handel, tortured themselves through arcane memorization of rules to come up with interesting mathematical games.... As that they understood the laws of design, in music and reveled in exploring permutations. Similar to what Jazz artists did, and still do with improvisation. The internal ear recognizes the patterns that are beautiful, and that is why we enjoy this music.
Seriously, faculties breaking, the mind reaching for superlatives, stupifecation and catharsis. I'll stop before I'm taken for exaggerating.
What makes this feat even more amazing is that Bach was writing one of these Cantatas *every week*, from original composition, to writing out parts & rehearsing.....all in the space of about 6 days each....& he had to write even more for major Holy Days.
@Steven Moore Bach was super industrious for sure, but his output is pretty incredible - basically an album worth of music every week for 5 years which is still studied today for its excellence. People have spent more time studying his pieces than it took for him to write them... it's insane. Also, Bach pretty obviously had some talent which you can see from his works from when he was younger (departure of a beloved brother, actus tragicus)
I guess he had a writing team that composed most of it, but probably under strict instruction from Bach himself.
@@knutholt3486 Not likely... I mean, he had his wife help him copy the parts for the players and singers... but that's pretty much it. A team of composers? Nah.
JS Bach is simply the greatest creative artist... EVER.
Im so addicted to this channel. Hearing thr chorale through the perspective that you made possible was one of my most intense musical experiences
Bach made thousands of musical works that could be listened to hundreds of times over - in a time where there were no recording devices. Astonishing. What a miracle historians have preserved his works, and that we're able to enjoy them today.
It requires a genius to have insight into a super genius
GrumpyOldMan I agree!!!!
that's right, Grumpy Old Man!
How counterpoint can reduce me to tears from its architectural beauty - attests to the continued god-like genius of Bach
Freakin' yes!
I'm still waiting for the BBC to claim that Africans had already done it like some thousands of years before... I'm sure they're working on such a narrative.
Did he write this when he wrote a cantata every week? I hope the audience appreciated this work!
Most likely not. Likely in the 1730s.
Hello Richard, your video is a very impressive feat of analysis, presented with total clarity and finesse. I look forward to view your others. Thanks for posting this.
I literally weep every time I view and listen to this brilliant, beautiful and powerful analysis of Bach's brilliant, beautiful, powerful, and "dizzyingly complex" counterpoint. This video, and others by Richard Atkinson, should be "required listening" for every music student, especially those who consider music theory and music history to be nothing but annoying intrusions into their sacred practice time! Words cannot describe my gratitude for this eye-opening, ear-opening, consciousness-expanding experience!
Thank you for this comment! I laughed a little, since throughout my life, I've always considered practice time to be nothing but an annoying intrusion into my sacred listening/analyzing time!
Yeah, I kinda disagree; studying such is just likely to produce composers trying to replicate, and therefore less likely to innovate. Being steeped in a culture and also being creative is what leads to progress, not being fixated with the past.
Nobody is going to dedicate themselves to rivalling Bach's counterpoint; he was the peak and it can't be bettered - that era is played out.
It takes a lot more than just genius to write a piece like this. In addition, it takes a huge amount of work and careful planning, and likely many failed experiments.
Absolute madman! It's really a shame that it's so hard to hear everything that's going on without having it explained and highlighted.
I like to think this scenario was fact:
Bach's friends: "Never change, you glorious nutter".
Bach: "What are you even talking about?"
@@sunnyjim1355 Haha that'd been great, sadly people complaining that his music was too complex and hard to understand was probably the most common criticism of his work back then
There are few videos I can watch where I have to completely stop multitasking, this is certainly one of them!
You should do a video on Bach's art of fugue, that would be really interesting.
Fantastic channel - as an admirer of Bach and counterpunctual structures I had to subscribe! Thanks for all your helpful analysis, best wishes, Andreas - lutenist
Thank you, Richard. I really LOOOOOOVE your video sooo much. Will be singing the Basssolopart of this Cantata on May, the 14th 2017 in Verden, Germany. This video is a wonderful motivation. Thanks again!
Good luck! I wish I could see it, but I'm on the other side of the world.
If you visit Germany "mi casa es su casa!"
Hope you had a marvellous concert!
I have to confess, Richard, that I didn't understand much of the incredible architecture underlying the work of a lot of my favorite composers until I found your channel. As someone with a background in visual art who never studied music formally this channel has been the masterclass in form and analysis that my self-curated, self-cobbled, wholly unaccredited RUclips University music degree required!
I'm not religious in the least. But when I first heard this masterpiece years ago, I cried. Literal tears were streaming down my eyes. It was just epic! But in the best way possible. It was a literal orgy to my ears. Thank you Bach for getting me as close to religious ecstasy as this agnostic skeptic can get. Bach is incredible.
I am currently experiencing the "analysis paralysis" effect
I always wait for the next video
Im watching this video while enjoying coffee on my cell phone. From Bachs mind to paper...to the skill of musicians....to Mr.Atkinson analysis...I feel really small....what a great time to be alive ! Amen !
31 October - Reformation Festival. Thank you, Herr Bach!
leave suggestions ??! ... man, this is just f***ing perfect ... you explained so well the genius of Bach ... crazy !!!!!
Thank you so much for this mind-blowing analysis.
BRILLIANT beyond description!!! I consider J S Bach a genius of in-measurable depth, consequence of God's touch over him, a willing & dedicated "vessel". Thanks to my dearest friend/mentor/colleague Dr. James Newton Jr. for pointing me to this & "bravissimo" to Richard for this most outstanding & extraordinary insight into a 'small' masterpiece by the greatest genius of musical history.
Just discovered your channel. Excellent work. So informative and well presented. Thank you!
Dear Mr. Atkinson, thank you for all your videos - you are doing an amazing job!
I wanted to ask something - did Mendelssohn use the same motive as the the first phrase of this lutheran chorale melody in his fourth movement of his fifth symphony? what is the story behind it?
Yes - that is why his 5th is nicknamed the "Reformation Symphony."
Thank you for all your videos!!!!!!!!
you can skip the analyzing if you already know it, BWV 80 begins at 12:50
Completely mind-blowing. I'm going to be performing in this this weekend. Thanks for this penetrating analysis.
Listened to this on Reformation Day! Thanks for the upload. I love it!!!
I have heard and given many a musical lecture. Yours is among the most well done! A worthy intro to this piece!
I never get bored watching this again and again.
How can one be such a genius in composition ?! Thank you again !
Only one could. And that was Bach.
Thank you for your incisive analysis, from which I've learned to appreciate this breathtaking feat of counterpoint even more. Your hard work has succeeded in clarifying its many complexities. Bach's great "Singet" motet would be an ideal model the same approach...if you have time! Many thanks.
This is the one that Mozart is said to have admired after having heard it. I love the final fugue in triple meter!
Bravo! I have played, but never studied this cantata. Bach never ceases to amaze- and thank you for your work in spreading this information.
Richard thank You for Your incisive, and insight filled analysis of music. I couldn't help but notice, at min 6:08 that with the addition of "free" and chromatic, counterpoint in the bass (grey), that it is in fact, a series of variations of theme one (orange), both translated 1/2 measure, sometimes inverted and sometimes retrograde, modulated up or similied in minor/ major,..etc,..and strettoed. 1st meas & 1/2 of grey is retro grade of 3rd &1/2 meas of orange, and the pattern at the end of grey is like a retrograde, and inverted version of end of 2 and 3 of orange. The whole piece has a similar feel to the BWV 573 fragment.. where we float over the tonic, in the dominant or subdominant, with the angelic fanfares! trumpets and timpani welcome.
Brilliant analysis, so clear and accessible- this is now a set work for A Level music in the UK so truly useful in teaching students! Thank you Richard!
Thank you for these very insightful video postings!
Thank you very much, that added greatly to my appreciation of my favorite cantata. Now I am going to go watch all your other videos.
Just in time for the great composer's birthday tomorrow.
Yes, and just in time for the 500-year anniversary of the Protestant Reformation (although I consider the anniversary you mentioned to be much more important).
HI Richard. Thank you for this video. I'm singing this choral (tenor) to celebrate the 500th anniversary of the Reformation with my choir, Christ Church St Laurence, in Sydney, Australia. We'll be accompanied by the Bach Akademie Australia on period instruments at Baroque pitch. We've just started rehearsing for the performance on 15 October. Can. Not. Wait.
Such complex genius, yet enjoyable for people like me, who can understand just a millionth of it. Thank you for lighting a lamp in the dark.
Bach is the historically untouched master of fugues and counterpoint. Period. I know no composer (sadly) that comes even close to his mastery. And sadly counterpoint was considered too complex to the mean listener by many composers that came after Bach so this art somehow became outdated.
Steffen W. Relax i want.
Someone is going to have to explain to me what “outdated” means in the context of art.
@@Ekvitarius Like in fashion, there are trends in music. When you wear a 80s outfit, you'll be considered outdated.
Brahms came very, very close.
@@iwanabana lol Brahms? Mozart and Beethoven come closer than Brahms.
This is incredible. Richard, can you explain more about orchestration in these contexts? Eg some instruments are doubling vocal parts and then going off and doing their own thing? Also, all these c clefs are confusing lol
The strings are almost always doubling the vocal parts, so I cut them out of the video when possible to increase the viewing size of the important portion of the score.
It was discovered Ein feste Burg theme is the secret hidden theme behind Elgar's Enigma Variations.
And now tell me the British or Polish discovered that secret theme xD
Yeah you know JSB sometimes employed great harmonic journey in his counterpoint like WTC2 #22 in Bb minor but sometimes he doesn't so much like here. It's all fascinating. Correct me if I'm off bass bro. The end is where the harmonic complexity circle of 5ths is it seems.
I think there’s a misperception among many that harmonic complexity is one of the primary ends that composers strived toward. Partly I think that’s because it’s one of the easiest criticisms to make of pop music, which I would say is vapid for many more reasons than a lack of harmonic complexity.
Wonderful work!Thank you for sharing, and congratulatios for this amazing job!
Your videos are awesome!! Thank you so much!!
bach took a simple vanilla cake and fashioned the most elegant striking beautiful gorgeous confection for a heavenly wedding of saints in the world to come. bach the consummate professional musical genius of our earthly abode. luther would have loved this!! Yum!
What excellents videos you make!
My favorite hymn in the whole wide world!
sooo good! thank you for sharing with us =)
thank you for this video big help
This helped a lot with my music history class, thanks!
Harry Potter FanFiction ah, so I'm not alone.
Bach had 300 iq confirmed.
Thanks! Moved me to go look at once for my CD of BWV 80.
This channel is an absolute gem in YT!
I never realize just how much Bach relied on the "Millennial Whoop." j/k
Thanks for this and the the other excellent videos, they've helped me better appreciate and understand Bach's wondrous music.
A brilliant analysis of such wonderful music.
12:49 complete piece for listening.
I. Am. Here.
This is very complicated.
Can you talk more about modulation in your videos? Tell us which keys he's traversing and how? Thanks.
Excellent video analysis on this Bach's masterpiece. One question tho: where i do find this version of Ein feste burg on youtube (0:40 - 0:56)?
It's the final movement of the cantata, so any video of BWV 80 will have it at the end.
While this is an astonishing feat I do not want to downplay, isn't it made somewhat doable by the subject apparently(!) mostly alternating between ground tone and dominant? So it 'stays close to home'.
Cf. ricercares in The Musical Offer... the subject was given to him as basically a challenge. Still what he manages to do is again astonishing, but clearly has more intrinsic limitations.
Correct me if I'm wrong or let me know your opinion.. :)
Jop Mens It's not like he wrote the subjects and motifs. But with easier ideas to work with, it allows him to create all the extra stretti and adding of other motifs. An example of Bach doing something more complex with more difficult subjects try Die Kunst Der Fuge. Although the subject is just a D Minor broken chord with a partial scale, he adds more complex motifs such as the Bach motif and does wonders with diminution and augmentation.
This movement bursts on the hearers precipitously, uncontrollably. overwhelmingly -- all the energies of the Reformation powerfully released, -- yet all is governed by impeccable musical logic. Did Bach's son Wilhelm not add the trumpets?
Great video!!
I gain great enjoyment and knowledge from your well thought out and well prepared presentations. Would you accept a guest column, subject to your critique, of course? I have some very definite ideas about the double fugal nature of Beethoven's Heiliger Dankgesang from his String Quartet in a minor, op 132. I also have an idea of why he says it is in the Lydian mode.
I've often heard that BWV 14, "Wär Gott nicht mit uns diese Zeit", is somewhat of a darker cousin to this one. What do you think?
The opening chorus of BWV 14 is already on the docket for a video in the future. I suppose it's similar to this BWV 80 chorus in the sense that they are both contrapuntal miracles, but I've always thought it was more similar to the opening chorus of BWV 179 (I have a video on this already!) since they both involve inversion fugue/canon.
Could you do a video sometime about the 147th Cantata? I believe it's pretty interesting too
great and humbling analysis ;)
Truly mind blowing.
good channel.....Great videos
Wonderful!
It is difficult to speak in his name, but I suspect that he would have been more pleased with Van Ockeghem than with Bach. I do not know which one of these two was the greatest polyphonist. The main difference is that Van Ockeghem is not militarist (reformation, counter reformation, Calvin, Luther, all of that.).
As a neutral arbiter (I’m an atheist who doesn’t believe in superstition), I’d just like to point out that both Catholicism and Protestantism are “militarist” in that both have consistently, throughout history, tried to enforce their beliefs on others through violence.
@Richard Atkinson I completely agree. It is entirely possible that those who made the lesser noise were the bigger taliban. Of course Bach is one the greatest composers of all time. But listening to all these cantatas can create headaches, even to him, I suspect. I mean, come on, not again.
Sick! Great analysis!
Thanks. One of my favorite chorale tunes.
I seem to recall in Mann's "The Study of Fugue" a suggestion by someone that certain subjects lend themselves to fugal writing better than others. However, with Bach, I feel as if he could have used anything. He wrote extraordinary fugues from some very short, simple subjects and others from lengthy subjects.
@@jtoddmusic7090 The Musical Offering is a great example of this - the theme is long, complex, and chromatic. Yet Bach is able to brilliantly subject it to an almost unbelievable variety of contrapuntal manipulations.
Hi,Richard.I really like your channel;are you thinking about analyzing some Bartok?It would be cool.
I'm thinking of doing one on the finale of the 4th quartet, with all its canonic imitation. Stay tuned.
Footnote for personal use 12:47
Beautiful analysis, thank you.
How hard would it for you to render a version of this graphic using a vocal score? Our chorus is (informally) returning to BWV 80 this fall, for review and enjoyment at our Christmas party, and I'd like to share this analysis with the group. I think it might be easier for the chorus to follow, if rendered using the vocal score.
We're using the public domain version of the vocal score, as found on IMSLP here:
ks.imslp.net/files/imglnks/usimg/f/f7/IMSLP24250-PMLP03847-bwv080.pdf
Our Christmas party is December 9. Awesome if you can render a version of this for us in time - if not, the full score version already online will work I'm sure.
Thanks again for your fine contribution to the richness of the wonder of Bach on the net. Thanks.
Notice… amazingly
Hi Richard, thank you for your thorough analysis. I would like to ask what you mean by 'free counterpoint' for example at 6:04. Is there any difference between standard counterpoint and free counterpoint? Thanks
By "free counterpoint," I meant that it's a separate contrapuntal line, but that it isn't related to any of the phrases from the chorale.
Thanks for clearing that up, keep up the good work :)
p.s. ah, german engineering...
Thank you
Excellent !!!
Is this the same chorale that Mendelssohn used for his Reformation Symphony?
Right, it is used in the 4th movement, introduced by the flute. Mendelssohn refers to Martin Luther who played the flute and composed the melody.
There is a recording with J. E. Gardiner conducting the BR, and the flute theme starts at 20:10, see ruclips.net/video/SDNucEHy5xo/видео.html
thanks for analyzing a bach cantata score. the only thing other than this video is prelude, fugue, and chorale analysis. like there isn't enough or those for fuck's sake.
Thank you,very good job!
ps: although the I must say, I'm one of the ones who prefer without trumpets :D
no more dizzying than portions of many of BCH's cantatas...... for those who should get back on their meds
Check out my numerous other videos about many of the others!
Excellent...
Excelent analysis. I would add that there sometimes is a correlation between the words and the notes. The "cantus firmus" entries symbolise the fortress by its solidity. Similarly, in the St. Matthews Passion, many times the word Kreuz is sang over a double sharp which is like a cross. Just saying :)
Yes, very true! I said something similar in my pinned comment about the trumpets.
You did. Another example is BWV 230, starting in bars 77 (Altos), 81 (Sopranos), 89 (Basses) and 93 (Tenors) the word Ewigkeit (eternity) lasts over 2 bars to signify just this: eternity
We're all so nerdy.
Could you please do more Mozart - The Magic Flute - specifically : Queen of the night and Hm Hm hm
Also could you please do anything on the A level music selection of music... I find your videos extremely helpful!
I would recomend a version contucted by sir john eliot gardiner where the choral version of the original melody comes in which sounds like its carried out by a tuba and organ just for a breaf few staves if you ask me MAKES the cantata. Totaly mezmorized by bach !
Bravo well done
i love classical music in general but i could do without so much of the music composed in this style - i do not listen to music to be impressed by the intelligence of the composer - nor am I emotionally moved by such displays of brilliant musical manipulations
This is beautiful just as much as it is intellectual - if you can’t recognize that, I feel sorry for you.