ive actually been in a mig15 cockpit, it was a north korean mig so some of the controls were in korean and some russian. i have to say being in the cockpit of the jet in real life changes your perspective pf just how hard it is to be a pilot. cool video
For headons 50 cals also have the hidden advantage of range, you can easily spray out a burst at 2km, start dodging, and if the enemy doesnt dodge and you aimed well it will still hit.
I feel like in general that dogfights in war thunder for comparison of vehicles are heavily flawed, they really just show pilot stupidity like I can beat a La-7 in a B7A1 doesn't mean it's better, it means I can stallfight And in general the sabre is a better jet for its flight capabilities and it's decent chance to set fire to things it hits with M20s
Nice video, however, most F-86 Sabre pilots actually had training unlike most MiG pilots in Korea so most likely, the Sabre would destroy a MiG. A good example about how MiG pilots in Korea didn’t know what they were doing is that the first confirmed MiG kill was by a Corsair, which if you didn’t know, is a *prop* plane.
Not really, it’s not even an accurate comparison since theres multiple different Sabre and MiG variants, it also depends on how the pilots use it, there’s too many factors to tell, but both of these planes are equals in their own respect
The MiG is definitely better if you just throw both aircraft into a full stick back turn fight, but that isn't how the Sabre should be flown. Understanding the MiG's weakness, it's better to try and force it into a flat scissor. Also you can take advantage of the MiG's difficult cannon aim and lack of hydraulic boosters by taking it straight downward. It will be hard for them to land a hit on you due to compression and their cannons' poor ballistics and, once they are compressing, you can easily take advantage of the situation to either go two circle and rate around them while they are still recovering or, if you're lucky and your enemy is inexperienced, just plow them straight into the ground for an easy maneuver kill.
MiG-15 Its dangerous for Long-Range Bombers because the Cannon was Designed to Bomber Hunting, yes this thing designed to be Bomber Interceptor after reveal it to Public (In Real life) B-29 still serve during Korean War (as an Tanker Plane), but after North Korea already operate the MiG-15, B-29 Activity increasingly rare. Before They (U.S Air Force) Operate the F-86 sabre, they still using WW2 Plane with some Modernized Radar & Armaments just for Close Air Support, reconnaissance plane and Escort. (Example F4U Corsair). And some Late-WW2 Figther Jet as like P-80 Shooting Stars. But, After F-86 Sabre's Operate in Korean War, its feels menacing for North Korean Pilot. Because, "damn they just get Really Skill issue". Many M(n)iG-15 just being Wiped out by US Pilot. But, After that, they just reveal another MiG's Variants as same US Industry do, 2 Big Country doing arms competition. However, Sabre's & MiG's was the first of Succesfully Second-Generation Figther During Early Cold-War.
For the dogfight, it really comes down to the pilot as the planes are so similar in performance. Yeah mig turns faster, but has a much shittier roll. Also has shit visibility, not exactly used much in WT. in the saber try to get into rolling scissors, should win every time if you play your cards right.
The mig is still better in general. Because of the higher climb rate and acceleration if I don’t like how the duel starts off I can leave and out climb the sabre. Once u get the guns of the mig down it’s almost no contest. The guns/cannons are really the only thing that could make the sabre a contender against the mig
I love how games work. Like on paper and in game the Mig-15 and F86 are almost equal, but in reality because of experience and training of pilots the F86 had a 5.7:1 KD though when accounting for actual Soviet pilots only (not Chinese or Korean) is was 1.4-1.6:1 for the Americans. Pretty neat
In terms of agility, the A-5 Sabre and Mig-15 are actually far closer than one might think. I nearly got blasted after seeing an A-5 and assuming I could easily slow him down and blast him out of the air and not fall in his guns. Nearly had a heart attack when I saw him turning inside my bank after I had already slowed him down quite a bit. Turns out the A-5 Sabre gets slats for assisting in low speed turns. So if you know what you're doing, you can DEFINITELY outmaneuver a Mig in the A-5.
The Sabre had a higher top speed, while the MiG had better acceleration. However, War Thunder is not an accurate simulation. The MiG's 37mm cannon had a very slow rate of fire, which often caused pilots to miss in close dogfights. Overall, when the Russians flew in Korea, the kill ratio was about 1.2:1 in favor of the U.S. However, when the North Koreans or Chinese began flying, the kill ratio improved significantly, reaching approximately 5:1. When aircraft are so closely matched in performance, the outcome usually comes down to the skill of the pilot, and the U.S. generally had better trained and more experienced pilots. This is similar to how an Abrams would excel against a T-72-not just because of the tank itself, but because of the crew’s training and experience.
IAS (Indicated Air Speed) isn't always the actual speed an aircraft is traveling at, it's a pilots reference point to the speed it would've travelled at if it were at sea level, IAS doesn't take any installation errors, instrument errors, or the bloody air density into consideration when calculating the displayed speed, at the best it's correct when flying at sea level, that's why, when you compare max speed you should look to the SPD value and not the IAS value , as that's considered to be the actual speed the aircraft is traveling at
The only thing I can say is the dogfight is circumstantial. How the engagement started. If either one wasn’t paying attention or at a low energy state when one already engaged then whom ever can maintain high angle of attack would walk away victorious. Most American line ups are better boom n zoom if given the opportunity.
I I have a question that I have been trying to get an answer to for a month. How did you get the slowmo shot at the beginning? I have tried doing that in and editing app but it does not look smooth
I don't think WT stats accurately represent these two legendary jets, often times the differences in combat were so small that it truly came down to the man in the seat.
I played the mig 15, 15bis, and 17 alot, the sabre is one hell of an opponent, the only problem i can see with the sabre, having only been on the enemy side, is that its guns seem to just not do damage sometimes
I saw that the maximum flight speed of the MIG15 was greater than that of the F-86, and closed the video. Once upon a time, when these 2 aircraft opposed in War Thunder. F-86 in level flight and in a dive could run away from the MiG-15
Well,... flying Saber as you would fly MiG-15always will end up with your saber being killed. Doing the opposite, will make MiG-15 end up being killed. The differences are the pilots at this point, as both aircrafts have flaws and strenght that are the opposite of their ennemy. Soo,... rating MiG-15 over Saber seems à bit biased 😅
Even if both aircraft are good it still depends on the pilot of said aircraft not to show off but for example i have a few months of experience with the F-86-40 and i have been able to shoot down MIGs and most aircraft that i encounter but there will be times when i lose some engagements
The sabre didn't rip at 1080 tho just got a warning, also in the dogfight the sabre has a better turn rate, the mig has superior vertical performance and the only reason it lost is because whoever was flying overshot.
@@v3es473 The Mig-15bis has better energy retention and thus better L/D ratio. Which should allow it to have better EM manoeuvrability and thus better turn rate compared to F-86's that served in Korea. Although the advantaged had been becomes less pronounced by the F.
@@thewatchman9540 energy retention doesn't necessarily equal better turn rate, + the sabre has much lower drag at high speed, also a higher top speed if going straight, and better straight line energy retention, also horizontal turn rate is just better than the 15s, no issue beating them unless they go vertical
@@Dark_Productions that is not what happened in the Korean war all models of the f-86's were a even match for all mig-15 models including the bis irl it was the skill of the man in the cockpit that decided the fight's outcome. if wt modeled the mig-15's right it would perform as good as the saber just look at dcs they have the f86-f and the mig-15bis modeled off of real world data and they are equal if both pilots are good and a loss is down to one pilot making a mistake
I used to be able to beat 2 Mig-15s in a 2v1 scenario in simulator until they Nerfed the f-86 to the point that I couldn't compete with the mig-15 anymore it was completely 1 sided pvp
In a dogfight i would say they are equals, yes the mig is better in verticals and 2 circle but the sabre has a great roll rate and turn raduis which makea it excellent in the 1 circle. This makes a dogfight based on how well the pilots can use their plane's advantages to turn de battle in their favour
Ah yes, the clear superiority of the MiG15 was obviously why they had an 8:1 to as many as nearly 10:1 loss rate vs the Sabre... 750-780 migs lost vs 70-80 sabres. The MiG absolutely dominated. (Sources differ on the numbers)
For me sabres are better because it is suited for air rb it can boom and zoom and has lots of ammo it is the perfect tool for breaking up the furball happening it also outspeeds the mig 15
50k Special Video is out Heres the link to it: ruclips.net/video/3gwuEdHLX6k/видео.html
Which Aircraft is your Favourite?
MiG-29, F-16, F-14... And other
Me264, P61 and the A10💥
F-16 VS MIG-29
Lockheed P-38 Lightning 🇺🇸
F6F Hellcat 🇺🇸
IL-2 🇷🇺
B-17 🇺🇸
Super Marine Spitfire 🇬🇧
Hurricane 🇬🇧
RED BARRON 🇩🇪 (any WW1 aircraft)
B-52 🇺🇸
Thanks for these facts btw another great and amazing video
ive actually been in a mig15 cockpit, it was a north korean mig so some of the controls were in korean and some russian. i have to say being in the cockpit of the jet in real life changes your perspective pf just how hard it is to be a pilot. cool video
That's true, i also had been in US jet cockpit, but i forgot the name of it 😐
I went in a Lancaster cockpit👍
Back then,now the computers do most of the job for you
That's why sim is the only way to fly.
@@valdito_2123 thats usually the case with planes like the f35 and such
For headons 50 cals also have the hidden advantage of range, you can easily spray out a burst at 2km, start dodging, and if the enemy doesnt dodge and you aimed well it will still hit.
The migs were designed to be extra sturdy to take hit the machine-gun turret of bombers
WTF IS A KILOMETERRRRRRR 🦅🦅🦅🍔🍔
@kashiff17 can't take hits from .50 cal APIs though😂
@@konnerkramer329 evidently they can.
@@averagejoe8358 one thousand meters
It’s so cool how you not only get the information across but you make it so cinematic too💯🔥
Good jet doesn't judge the fight
Good pilots judge the fight
- certified warThunder Veteran 🗿🗿
The saber took the incorrect decision at the moment to make a vertical fight against the mig.
People come here for the comparison, but I come here for the epic scenes
"You come here for the comparison, I come here for the epic scenes. We are not the same."
No bro you came here for the epic scenes and i came here for the epic scenes
@@WarHunter57 then we're bros now
@@elemenzyt4563 yes comrade
Mig-15 vs F2 Sabre was the good old days
I feel like in general that dogfights in war thunder for comparison of vehicles are heavily flawed, they really just show pilot stupidity like I can beat a La-7 in a B7A1 doesn't mean it's better, it means I can stallfight
And in general the sabre is a better jet for its flight capabilities and it's decent chance to set fire to things it hits with M20s
G suit was a major edge for the Sabre, aswell as computing gunsights. Sadly both are unable to be represented in wt
flat scissors are hell for mig 15 when going against the Sabre due to the roll rate, so always go for the rolling scissors.
Nice video, however, most F-86 Sabre pilots actually had training unlike most MiG pilots in Korea so most likely, the Sabre would destroy a MiG. A good example about how MiG pilots in Korea didn’t know what they were doing is that the first confirmed MiG kill was by a Corsair, which if you didn’t know, is a *prop* plane.
Another masterpiece
Hey man I love your vids! Do you think you can do one of the JA-37D and other Swedish vehicles? If yes thanks!
Funny how games are so different from reality 😂
How, wdym
China won Korean war
reality, China won Korean war
Not really, it’s not even an accurate comparison since theres multiple different Sabre and MiG variants, it also depends on how the pilots use it, there’s too many factors to tell, but both of these planes are equals in their own respect
The MiG is definitely better if you just throw both aircraft into a full stick back turn fight, but that isn't how the Sabre should be flown. Understanding the MiG's weakness, it's better to try and force it into a flat scissor. Also you can take advantage of the MiG's difficult cannon aim and lack of hydraulic boosters by taking it straight downward. It will be hard for them to land a hit on you due to compression and their cannons' poor ballistics and, once they are compressing, you can easily take advantage of the situation to either go two circle and rate around them while they are still recovering or, if you're lucky and your enemy is inexperienced, just plow them straight into the ground for an easy maneuver kill.
Well, thats why MiG tactic is always dive, hit, go high, if need - do a wide half barrel and full on stick to dive again.
I just have superior energy.
MiG-15 Its dangerous for Long-Range Bombers because the Cannon was Designed to Bomber Hunting, yes this thing designed to be Bomber Interceptor after reveal it to Public (In Real life)
B-29 still serve during Korean War (as an Tanker Plane), but after North Korea already operate the MiG-15, B-29 Activity increasingly rare. Before They (U.S Air Force) Operate the F-86 sabre, they still using WW2 Plane with some Modernized Radar & Armaments just for Close Air Support, reconnaissance plane and Escort. (Example F4U Corsair). And some Late-WW2 Figther Jet as like P-80 Shooting Stars. But, After F-86 Sabre's Operate in Korean War, its feels menacing for North Korean Pilot. Because, "damn they just get Really Skill issue". Many M(n)iG-15 just being Wiped out by US Pilot. But, After that, they just reveal another MiG's Variants as same US Industry do, 2 Big Country doing arms competition. However, Sabre's & MiG's was the first of Succesfully Second-Generation Figther During Early Cold-War.
Love your videos !
“It’s not the plane, it’s the pilot.” - Maverick
OMG the production this channel has is amazing wtf you deserve so many more subs. youre gonna be on top soon inshallah 😊
It depends on the pilot not the plane on the dogfight part
Mostly but both Pilots were equally skilled in the dogfight we did so yea
@@Dark_Productionsyou say that, but in the Korean War Sabres really shined
@@ApollonDriver its in war thunder... Russian bias exists...
@@saytam_arit can't be Russian bias cuz it's soviet duh 🙄🙄
@@umbananaqualquer4052 yeah ofcourse like the soviet Union wasnt Russia + all the Lands they conquered 🙄
The game didn't account for pilot equipment. F86 pilots had g-suits. MiG15 did not.
In reality these jets were almost identical, it came down to the men in the pilot chair. Iconic aircraft.
The dogfight really depends. That isn’t a valid source.
Mig 15 has much better head on performance.
The whole reason that the f86 was superior in real life was because on 1 thing;
We just had the better, more trained pilots
For the dogfight, it really comes down to the pilot as the planes are so similar in performance.
Yeah mig turns faster, but has a much shittier roll. Also has shit visibility, not exactly used much in WT. in the saber try to get into rolling scissors, should win every time if you play your cards right.
The mig is still better in general. Because of the higher climb rate and acceleration if I don’t like how the duel starts off I can leave and out climb the sabre. Once u get the guns of the mig down it’s almost no contest. The guns/cannons are really the only thing that could make the sabre a contender against the mig
@@toasterhothead3312 they’re practically dead even, it 100% comes down to pilot skill.
@@toasterhothead3312the sabre has better control at higher speeds, better aoa and at low altitudes there is less difference in acceleration
Mig roll rate is so sad wtf
The sabre 50 cals are much more effective irl
It’s unfortunate that the A-5 saver is modeled incorrectly. IRL the saber had a higher top speed than the MiG-15.
I love how games work. Like on paper and in game the Mig-15 and F86 are almost equal, but in reality because of experience and training of pilots the F86 had a 5.7:1 KD though when accounting for actual Soviet pilots only (not Chinese or Korean) is was 1.4-1.6:1 for the Americans. Pretty neat
The mig15 turns like a bus.
I miss after dark, but let's try little dark age as backsound for your videos
DW After Dark coming back : )
you forgot to mention the sabers targeting system. It was the first aircraft to have radar targeted guns
Both absolute legends
The more edits he doesn't the better they get! Btw don't let this guy post 2 times a day.
Personally if you take it out of just war thunder it's a tie because the mig had a stall issue where at a certain angle it was unrecoverable
tbh, the dogfight part is just the players, not the plane.
Wut music u used in this bloody masterpiece?
Waltz of The Tornado, from War Thunder OST
In terms of agility, the A-5 Sabre and Mig-15 are actually far closer than one might think. I nearly got blasted after seeing an A-5 and assuming I could easily slow him down and blast him out of the air and not fall in his guns.
Nearly had a heart attack when I saw him turning inside my bank after I had already slowed him down quite a bit. Turns out the A-5 Sabre gets slats for assisting in low speed turns. So if you know what you're doing, you can DEFINITELY outmaneuver a Mig in the A-5.
The upside of 50 cals, more ammo. In the mid 15 you can barely take pot shots before you ran out of ammo
Dogfight depends on the pilot. MiG is better at lower altitude, Sabre is better at higher.
I once saw an f86 at an air show and I thought it was a Mig-15
The UN troops in Korea didn't stand a chance against the MIG-15 until the Sabre came along
The Sabre had a higher top speed, while the MiG had better acceleration. However, War Thunder is not an accurate simulation. The MiG's 37mm cannon had a very slow rate of fire, which often caused pilots to miss in close dogfights. Overall, when the Russians flew in Korea, the kill ratio was about 1.2:1 in favor of the U.S. However, when the North Koreans or Chinese began flying, the kill ratio improved significantly, reaching approximately 5:1.
When aircraft are so closely matched in performance, the outcome usually comes down to the skill of the pilot, and the U.S. generally had better trained and more experienced pilots. This is similar to how an Abrams would excel against a T-72-not just because of the tank itself, but because of the crew’s training and experience.
IAS (Indicated Air Speed) isn't always the actual speed an aircraft is traveling at, it's a pilots reference point to the speed it would've travelled at if it were at sea level, IAS doesn't take any installation errors, instrument errors, or the bloody air density into consideration when calculating the displayed speed, at the best it's correct when flying at sea level, that's why, when you compare max speed you should look to the SPD value and not the IAS value , as that's considered to be the actual speed the aircraft is traveling at
Please do Twin mustang vs Twin Messerschmitt.❤
True, the Mig 15 was a better aircraft.
But historically the Saber preformed better in combat. Mostly because of the pilots.
In a 1v1 it really just depends on the pilots.
The only thing I can say is the dogfight is circumstantial. How the engagement started. If either one wasn’t paying attention or at a low energy state when one already engaged then whom ever can maintain high angle of attack would walk away victorious. Most American line ups are better boom n zoom if given the opportunity.
How did MiG get the point for speed when it’s slower?
EXACTLY
@@nicholascollins4796 ikr so confusing
@@CaptKak1954 the sabre literally would've won if he distributed the points properly
I I have a question that I have been trying to get an answer to for a month. How did you get the slowmo shot at the beginning? I have tried doing that in and editing app but it does not look smooth
i just go in the replay mode and record it in Super slow mo then in editor i speed it up and slow it down a bit
First time seeing someone use the warthunder jet music
I don't think WT stats accurately represent these two legendary jets, often times the differences in combat were so small that it truly came down to the man in the seat.
really good comparison for the 1v1. Although the F86 is better for air RB the MiG15 bis is a beast.
I mean that's in WT though irl stats require a good pilot and a proper k/d which the Sabre proves to be better.
I played the mig 15, 15bis, and 17 alot, the sabre is one hell of an opponent, the only problem i can see with the sabre, having only been on the enemy side, is that its guns seem to just not do damage sometimes
Legit why does the music hit hard
Is british tank evolution coming soon? Sorry to keep asking but i’m looking forward to it
North korean emblem on the mig
NK still use it
it's actually stock camo that everyone have... or it's not?
@@andrzejhoroszkow8408it's stock I'm game yea
@@andrzejhoroszkow8408yes, why tho??
WALTZ of the tornado
Man give us a blankets before cold edits 😅
Depends on the pilot in a dogfight
Did you know that an F-86A5 once crashed into a boeing 727 operated by ana
Blud forgot the mig-15 was disigned to fight bombers
I saw that the maximum flight speed of the MIG15 was greater than that of the F-86, and closed the video. Once upon a time, when these 2 aircraft opposed in War Thunder. F-86 in level flight and in a dive could run away from the MiG-15
Do Ho 229 v Mig 15
Well,... flying Saber as you would fly MiG-15always will end up with your saber being killed.
Doing the opposite, will make MiG-15 end up being killed.
The differences are the pilots at this point, as both aircrafts have flaws and strenght that are the opposite of their ennemy.
Soo,... rating MiG-15 over Saber seems à bit biased 😅
I myself would not agree on head-on, I've gotten some nasty long range head-on one taps in my mig experience
in wt yes but irl the mig 15 what not very good on targeting side and was a pain in the ass to shoot
@@topgun1457 yeah but the video is on their performance in war thunder not real life
@@ValkValerian i don't care irl statistics are what it should have and what i will judge on
Even if both aircraft are good it still depends on the pilot of said aircraft
not to show off but for example i have a few months of experience with the F-86-40 and i have been able to shoot down MIGs and most aircraft that i encounter but there will be times when i lose some engagements
Do not flat 1 circle or 2 circle fight a mig15.
Attempt to get him stuck in the rolling scissor.
You will have the advantage there and only there.
Well dogfight can’t be counted cause it depends on the players skill
Guys, dont cry about it i also like sabre more but can't we just all agree both are legends?
IL-2 vs Mosquito
Russian bias win
The mig was built for intercepting enemy bombers and fighters while the saber was exactly built for dogfighting
The sabre didn't rip at 1080 tho just got a warning, also in the dogfight the sabre has a better turn rate, the mig has superior vertical performance and the only reason it lost is because whoever was flying overshot.
Soo , in short.. you are a crybaby
Sabre only has a better turn rate at high speeds 900km/h+ other than that Mig-15 had a better turn rate and sustained turn rate.
@@thewatchman9540 depending on variant, the F straight up just has a better turn rate
@@v3es473 The Mig-15bis has better energy retention and thus better L/D ratio. Which should allow it to have better EM manoeuvrability and thus better turn rate compared to F-86's that served in Korea. Although the advantaged had been becomes less pronounced by the F.
@@thewatchman9540 energy retention doesn't necessarily equal better turn rate, + the sabre has much lower drag at high speed, also a higher top speed if going straight, and better straight line energy retention, also horizontal turn rate is just better than the 15s, no issue beating them unless they go vertical
miggers got no chance
Of coourse, 40 rounds per gun equals 6 .50cal cannons
The damned sabre is faster why’s the mig-15 get a point
In the end it's not the plane, it's the pilot.
Can you do f8f1-b vs bf109 K
US: We had better fighters during the Cold War.
The Soviet Union: Then can you explain this video?
US: then explain how an F4U Corsair shot down a mig 15 in Korea.
USSR:...
@@thatonejoey1847Pelo msm motivo que um La7 abateu um ME262 no fim da SGM.. não é o avião, mas sim o piloto!
F-86F would have been more fair but cool video
Both of these are 8.3
The F86F is 8.7 and would have to face MiG15Bis which would be an even easier win for the MiG imo
@@Dark_Productions irl i was talking abt 🤷♂️
@@Cr1n-l4s eh maybe but this is in game
@@Dark_Productions that is not what happened in the Korean war all models of the f-86's were a even match for all mig-15 models including the bis irl it was the skill of the man in the cockpit that decided the fight's outcome. if wt modeled the mig-15's right it would perform as good as the saber just look at dcs they have the f86-f and the mig-15bis modeled off of real world data and they are equal if both pilots are good and a loss is down to one pilot making a mistake
@@topgun1457 Mig-15bis was superior to the F-86 till the F-86F.
I used to be able to beat 2 Mig-15s in a 2v1 scenario in simulator until they Nerfed the f-86 to the point that I couldn't compete with the mig-15 anymore it was completely 1 sided pvp
In a dogfight i would say they are equals, yes the mig is better in verticals and 2 circle but the sabre has a great roll rate and turn raduis which makea it excellent in the 1 circle. This makes a dogfight based on how well the pilots can use their plane's advantages to turn de battle in their favour
Yea it's pretty much impossible to beat the mig15 if you ever accidentally loaf into a air ab thing has thr turn radius of a corsair
F 16 vs po 2 pls
i real hope po 2 wins
Ah yes, the clear superiority of the MiG15 was obviously why they had an 8:1 to as many as nearly 10:1 loss rate vs the Sabre... 750-780 migs lost vs 70-80 sabres. The MiG absolutely dominated. (Sources differ on the numbers)
It's more of the pilot I preform good in the bf109 rather then others
Все показало противостояние во Вьетнаме и Северной Корее. Коммунистические (Советские) самолеты имели господство в небе.
I just got my f86a5 and did a head on with the f20 tiger shark and won with damaged glass on the cockpit
It’s not the plane, it’s the pilot
Do a fw190d9 vs Corsair from 4.7
If you fight against mig 15 just do fast turn from left to right, before MiG can rotate you wilk be on his tail
Dog fight is a tie because it's pilot dependent
For me sabres are better because it is suited for air rb it can boom and zoom and has lots of ammo it is the perfect tool for breaking up the furball happening it also outspeeds the mig 15
Do F-104 and MiG-19
Headon and dogfight really justs depends on skill and luck.
What's the song?
What time does matter about the pilot? Sometimes when you make pilot, it could be out against a very experienced. F-86 pilot.