NATO has a Trump problem | Ian Bremmer | Quick Take
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- Lots of hair on fire because former President Trump shared his view that if any NATO countries refused to pay, he wouldn't be interested in defending them and would tell the Russians they could do whatever the hell they wanted. And predictably, this got Europeans very agitated. But should there be consequences for American allies that are unwilling to prioritize their own self-defense?
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Ian Bremmer's Quick Take:
Hi, everybody. Ian Bremmer here. And a Quick Take to kick off your week. Could be so much to talk about. I say kick off. So you think it's Super Bowl, but no, no, I'm not going there. Don't. I mean, I care, but not after the game's over. Then I'm kind of done. It's exciting that way. I love sports. I get very excited and then over immediately.
Let's move on to NATO and lots of hair on fire because former President Trump, about to become the Republican nominee, could easily be president again, says that recounting a conversation he had with a leading European leader. (I suspect he's talking about Angela Merkel and Germany.) And that if they refused to pay, that he wouldn't be interested in defending them and, indeed that he would tell the Russians they could do whatever the hell they wanted to countries that refused to pay for their own self-defense. And predictably, this got Europeans very agitated. The NATO secretary-general, the European Council president, both saying this is only good for Putin. It weakens the alliance with Trump saying that and especially saying that publicly. And the Europeans are indeed, almost all the Europeans, are panicked about what might happen if Trump were to become president in 2025.
And I think these are all real points and deserve to be responded to. I do think it's important to look at the other side of the equation. At the same time, which is, should there be consequences for American allies that are unwilling to prioritize their own self-defense? And by the way, when I say consequences, I don't mean that the Russians should be able to invade them.
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#QuickTake #Trump #NATO
Americans say, we have enough problems of our own as if turning their backs on the NATO alliance will help anything in their home country. You must remember that article 5 was activated once - to support America after the terrorist attacks on 9/11/2001.
afghanistan turned out well 😂😂
Except for Poland and the UK most countries sent like 5 dudes who were there for support roles. If Russia attacked Germany, would you only expect the US to send 100 troops to provide logistical support?
@@TWE_2000 Well said.
@@TWE_2000 😊
@@TWE_2000I heard the Canadians just sent 5 sailors to sail on American ships but no vessels under the red sea coalition prosperity guardian. Non NATO member india sent 6 warships to protect red sea SLOC under their own flag in self interest. Indian navy in fact told USA they won't join prosperity guardian as IN ships won't sail under NATO or American command. And in doing their own thing, they are more effective saving more ships and tankers including britsih flagged oil tankers. So much for NATO.
Trump is my president! Omg, how America needs Trump now!!!
LMAO. Your president Trump added 8 trillion debts to the current total 31 trillion US debts just in his 4-year term.
NATO should ENDO !
Not paying up weakens the "alliance". NATO always had a free ride with the US paying too much and doing too much. Great he called them out while he was in office.
Calling out and saying go ahead and invade are 2 completely different things
Doing too much? In the last 20 yrs it was Europe sending forces to Afghanistan when on 9/11 it was America which has been attacked. Europe did not spend enough on european forces because after 1990 we foolishly believed in eternal peace, granted, but we did not abandon the US in Afghanistan. Not paying 2% of the GDP for our own military was not about the US and a free ride. It was about the completely false perception of Putin that we had. In the last twenty years no US soldier died in a european war but quite a number of Europeans died in Afghanistan. Brits, Poles and some others even sent forces to Iraq while no one in Europe - including Britain and Poland - ever understood why you have been so keen on conquering and holding that country.
@@rg-cc5kg Please, with the exception of the UK and Poland, all the other NATO countries sent what 5 people each and some logistics....We had more help from the Aussies who aren't even in NATO!
The French drank wine and dropped shells. @@rg-cc5kg
I agree that some of the laggards in the back should up their game. That said, they are not all laggards. The former Soviet states, like Poland, Latvia, etc., have really stepped up. Newly-joined Finland brings a lot to the table and so will Sweden. Also, just focusing on the defense spend is quite a narrow take. The US has not had to deal with the millions of Ukrainian refugees like our European counterparts. We should respectfully push our allies to all meet the target while also keeping a wider view.
"But should there be consequences for American allies that are unwilling to prioritize their own self-defense?"
Well February 2022 is a good teacher.
The problem with this lesson it is heard by the countries on the border with Russia, but can be safely ignored by Canada. Anything that would be an effective change would probably require a revision of the NATO that wouldn't be accepted by the slackards.
Get out of Europe.... it's no longer 1945. Stop using our countries as your vassal states and stop using Ukraine and Gaza as your killing fields. Trump for President NOW! Sovereignty for Europe! The whole world is hoping for a second Trump presidency
@@richdobbs6595 But sober thinking for west Europeans and Americans makes it evident that the war in Ukraine is absolutely no threat to them. One needs to be a cult-level domino theorist to see it otherwise.
It seems that not many people appear to understand that the financial obligations in the treaty are laid out such that each member nation must allocate a percentage to their GDP to their own national defense. So, when people say a nation must "pay up", it's a non statement. There is no place that something akin to "dues" would be collected. Of course, the amount of monies other member nations must pony up to supplement "non compliant" nations is a number with which to work, but it hardly amounts to "paying up". Otherwise, world stability is just a franchise
When the Russian tanks roll in, take that one to the bank
Basically everybody is obligated to spend 2% of their GDP on gear, supplies,weapons and bullets, and train soldiers to defend themselves and\or to contribute to the defense of all. There are currently 7 out of 31 nations that have met or exceeded that requirement.
In addition there are administrative costs that are not insignificant, and amout to being 'dues'.
I'm a Brit & we've always payed our NATO dues & more. We've all had a wake-up call on this side of the pond but it's the German & French that need most of your persuasion & encouragement to meet their GDP targets. Putin has rail-roaded his way through Chechnya & Georgia, stolen Crimea & invaded Ukraine. We all need to take his land-grabbing more seriously & make sure we are able to stand & fight should the Baltic States, Finland or Poland, be his next targets. Never forget that Putin has the power & money of China on his side & is busy supplying nuclear tech to North Korea & Iran.
But will Europe listen
Maby we do need a EU army
That is the only way countries like France spain Italy will cough up.
We Brits take our defence more seriously
But will we listen to orders from the EU
Britain out of NATO now.... we've been occupied with American bases and US puppet regimes since 1942.... it's time for British sovereignty to be returned. The Russians left Europe peacefully in 1990... for the US to march it's dollar paid puppets to the Donbas. Ukraine has NOTHING to do with British sovereignty. having US military bases and puppet parliaments does.... oh and by the way Free Gaza.
Trump for president now.... first hour... no first 30 minutes that he is in the white house he should immediately disband nato and give us our countries back.... and you best respect the democratic wish of the wise American people who vote for Trump.. It's time for a free and sovereign Europe.
@@clavichordbe careful what you wish for 😉
100% agree with Trump
Dear NATO countries:
Pay your bills and there won't be any problems.
Sincerely, the United States Taxpayers
I agree with you… Europeans need to stop being lazy free loaders.
I, a US citizen, dont want any aid to those europeans countries, Israel. Im a liberal but ENOUGH, we are struggling to pay for basic stuff, and the US government is sending our money to them? NO
Less than 1 % of the US budget goes overseas.
Wrong! Trump is right to say those who didn’t pay up should not get NATO defense. Every country should pay its fair share. Why should tax money be paying for those who don’t care about their security.
It is the US advanced war machines that keep you and family safe from Russia. Without that, you will be speaking Russian and licking Putin’s you know what.
It is the US advanced war machines that keep you and your family safe. Just be grateful and pay your 2% share.
Nothing good will ever come from isolationism
Expect the Rust Belt transforming back into the Steel Belt.
Uplifting 100m Americans.
America for the Americans.
No, that's wrong.
Yeah because the rust belt or anything else was great under Trump. If people are not extremely wealthy, Trump is not their guy. His tariffs negatively affected farmers and the government had to pay billions to keep them from losing everything. For years the Republicans controlled the White House, the Senate and the House and nothing got done at the border. He did nothing in infrastructure. He never came up with a better alternative to Obamacare. But apparently he and his businesses did well while he was in office. And Kushner was able to get billions from the Saudis. Trump was not a good businessman and he wasn't a good president. He's an ignorant poorly educated and informed person who understands nothing about leadership or world affairs. The fact that he's rooting for Putin over allies shouldn't surprise anyone. Just remember his obsequious fawning over Putin in Helsinki. It was really pathetic and embarrassing. I guess it will be up to historians to explain how such a weak ineffectual and corrupt man got into power and people were gullible enough to believe his garbage. The Republican party is now nothing more than the caucus of cowards and appeasers. Trump is a bullying buffoon who has cowed everyone in the GQP.
Yeah lets give billions and billions to countries overseas while our debt is growing...thats not good either
@@markgarcia8253In the current regime, nearly every NATO ally purchases US made weapons, mainly built in the rust belt. How does pulling out of NATO help?
Your most narrow position on NATO? It would have been helpful to include the value of NATO. What are the consequences of dissing NATO and encouraging Putin? Most of the weapons for NATO are procured in the USA.
Yep. That's a big source of revenue for the US, as well as the jobs provided.
I do not agree this time with Ian. It is not about Europea free-ride, but, inded, it is about the rise of populist thinking and threat in the US
While I find Ian’s analysis interesting, he attributes far too much altruism to Trumps self serving if not criminal words and actions. Of course Trump is getting money from the Saudis -and God only knows who else.
Boomer here, you actually made me get it, the youngers feelings, the war stuff, made me see it. ty
What about all the times American allies have helped the US like in Irak for example.
@@DrMarkyMarkwhat are you talking about
The issue from a European perspective, is you backed the South Vietnamese government, till you didn’t, You backed Iraqi government till you didn’t then came back to attack ISIS and are undoubtedly leaving again. You backed Ukraine and have sort of stopped. Europe get’s the message America cannot be relied upon and we need to step up and I agree we should have before. America’s greatest strength has been it’s allies. They are the ones who fought with you when Article 5 was enacted post 9-11. America seems to believe it doesn’t need allies. We will adapt, but we won’t come back
Then defend yourself. If it weren’t for the US half of Europe is now Russia’s. US is the most reliable partner to Ukraine by a millions miles. With all the wobbly talk of maybe not supporting Ukraine anymore the U.S. is still spending times more then the next country. It’s the Europeans who can’t be replied upon to defend itself. Time to take money from your healthcare and education to defend yourselves, lazy privileged Europeans, since “the US can’t be trusted.” Jesus.
or spend the money on your european society and people rather than more weapons --- and be more friendly to your neighbours instead of following the headless chicken user into war after war. ahha
@@user-ok6re8gv1q We live in a bad neighbourhood where some of our neighbours are dictators and have used nuclear isotopes and chemical weapons to murder people in London and Salisbury. How would you suggest being friendly? Russia has also assassinate people in broad daylight in Berlin. The man that did it they want to trade for a WSJ journalist. Should America be more friendly to stop their journalists being kidnapped?
Because you cannot rely on the US. The US is undependable.
@@user-ok6re8gv1q
"Be more friendly to your neighbors"....like Putin?
You sound very naive.
Cough.... Canada... cough.
the only possible country that could or would invade canada, is the usa, and us raising our defense spending from 1.3%-2% is not gonna make or break that war lol
Few days ago, Blinken and Stoltenberg held a press conference. US has given Ukraine $75 billion in aid, Europe has given $115 billion. European countries have also made contracts to buy American weapons totalling about a $120 billion. Also, US sent three brigade combat teams into Europe as an emergency deterrence. One CBT has about 4,500 soldiers. If you understand military matters then you know that this force is totally insignificant in great power conflict. It would disappear in less than a month at the casualty rates we see in Ukraine. So the Americans are weak, much too weak to defend even Finland, let alone Germany. Also, the magical Two Percent you always hear about was simply used to get Europeans to spend more and then buy American weapons. Which is based on the lie that Americans would defend them. The Ukraine War has broadcast to the entire world how weak American security guarantees are when it really comes down to fighting and winning. So I think NATO is going to dissolve in the 2020s, because Europeans would much rather build their own defence according to their own needs and have the foreign policy influence that this brings.
Yes and if they work with Russia and China it will cost even less.
Both Russia and China have proven to be more reliable than the Americans anyway and more useful.
Europe needs nothing from Americans we need alot from Russia and China.
LOL, go ahead. Also, the whole Ukraine issue is a drag because the USA and Ukraine were NEVER defense treaty allies in the first place.
Thanks for the analysis
Angela Merkel would never call Tump "sir." Any time Trump tells a story that starts with someone calling him "sir," he is demonstrating his creative powers.
You mean fantasies...
No you lie. We all respect the Donald in Europe. He is such a good leader. God help you over the next few years. I wonder where will you have your Nuremberg trails?
As a european, i do sympathize the argument from the american side that europeans should do more, much more. First of all, NATO is mainly considered to protect Europe from russian agressions, ever since the alliance was founded. Second, Europe is the community of 500 million, and the largest economy in the world, so there sure is recources, but very few, if any excuses.
However, the way Donald Trump treats the american allies, is not the way. You don't just bully, make threats and dictate your demands. The way Trump talked about how he like to encourage Russia to do what ever the hell they want with some NATO memebers which are behind on their payments, is very dangerous rethoric. In Europe it's very clear for us where we are with Russia right now. Ukraine is under attack, cities are bombed, civilians raped and slaughtered for two years now and there is no end in sight. You don't just casually throw reamarks like that.
In terms of their own defense, Europeans are acting like children - as if they don't have an obligation to defend their own people against aggression. European nations couldn't even enforce a no-fly zone in Europe (over Bosnia and Herzegovina) without American assistance. How should adults who aren't fulfilling their treaty obligations (NATO is a treaty) be spoken to?
As a European I think the US occupation forces and the nuclear weapons in my back garden should be moved back to Biden's back garden. I also do not want my democratic system subverted by Washington and its influence, and I do not want my army protecting Israel to genocide Palestinians. The first second Trump enters the White House he should pull the plug on NATO immediately and give me my country back. It's no longer 1945, it's 2024. The US should take Russia as an example, who peacefully left Europe in 1990... for America to march eastwards. I can't wait for Trump to win. Hopefully we will be sovereign and free once more... the occupation has lasted way to long already.
All the NATO countries' intelligence services should start releasing all their data on the TrumPuitin affair.
Crazy talk
Pathetic talk
Rachel Maddow called - she'd like her pet conspiracy theory back.
this understanding is because of FAKE AMRICAN propaganda released by Hilary Clinton's campaigns. The Mueller inquiry has already established that there was nothing. It is sad and speaks to the ignorance of American public.
Eric trump literally admitted, “we get all of our funding from Russia”,
Anything to say about that?
You are forgetting something extremely striking in Trump’s behavior: He minimizes The United States into a ”mercenary nation” by this attitude.
He's a very gung-ho draft dodger. He is not the one to dictate wise military moves.
Thanks Ian. I was impressed with the balance in your take. As an American who has lived 27 years overseas, the father of an Army veteran in a family with three generations of veterans, I am still in love with my country. I do understand that some have fallen through the cracks of the system or are frustrated. I do wish that more of my fellow compatriots would learn to appreciate what they have: the strongest (and most diverse) economy in history, access to oceans on nearly four sides (including Great Lakes and Gulf of Mexico), the ability to be energy independent, the ability to be food independent, a country that integrates immigrants much better than the other countries that I have lived in. There is much to be grateful for. Yes, it is tempting to get into the self-loathing trap of victimhood or have some supposed "strong man" narrate your struggles, but to think that those thoughts will take you somewhere better is fantasy. America isn't perfect and will always be work in progress, but she is almost always better than the alternative.
The world has a Trump problem but it can be fixed!
That may be true. But the EU also has a problem with taking threats seriously.
The world doesn't like Trump because he calls out their behavior, they take advantage of America, and don't show respect to their protector
Thank you. I strongly support NATO, but Trump has had a point that I appreciate in not wanting to be used by others.
Trump got exactly what he wanted out of this, he got the world talking about him.
He's either mad or very clever...or should I say has someone close to him that's very clever...
The only thing keeping us safe is geography😋
This right here. Very few countries enjoy the geography the U.S enjoys. Plus, oceans on both sides and millions of Americans armed to the teeth.
Americans really don’t understand how good they got it (speaking as American btw)
@@Movies4118And you have Russia on your backdoor... Also, with the weaponry evolution, it doesn't matter where you are, really! Trump is a lunatic and a traitor, he sold the US to Putin!
It’s critical to strengthen North American-European partnership, not undermine it. Now more than ever.
What kind of partnership does one have when members don't adhere to the partnership's rules? European countries flouting elements of the NATO charter are undermining the partnership themselves.
Hopefully we won’t see what a Trump admin is like when there are NO adults in the room. I served some years in NATO. The US shoulders most of the cost of NATO operations. AND the US dictates plans, terms, conditions. One buys the other.
"One buys the other" is a smart way to put it.
lots of excellent points and counter-points. thank you for your insights.
Is there anyone else out there that shares a similar life experience. I was born in 1962 in Santa Fe New Mexico. Yes that's only about 20 miles away from Los Alamos, home of the nuclear bomb. Because of that the cold war was incredibly real to me. I knew from an incredibly young age that if war broke out between the USSR and America I was going to be one of the first casualties. When the 90s rolled about with the fall of the USSR it was as if a huge weight was lifted off my chest and I could breathe again.
Now only a few days shy of two years ago that weight that tried to crush my childhood is now back.
How have we gotten back here yet again?.
Too easy to blame it all on Putin. Yes he is the evil protagonist, but I don't think we can escape blame for helping to create him ?.
If I had more respect for that man, I would hypothesize that he was saying it exactly because it scares Europeans.
Ian bremmer looks so sad.. I remember his eyes were sparkly & cute in Munich right around 2022 after the Putin SMO but look at his sad puppy face now
Ukraine losing
Israel hurting
Trump
Is winning omg
Move to Russia. You'll love it there.
One of your better contributions Ian. Well said
Germany is a top donator worldwide. 2nd place in official development assistance at 35b/y, 2nd place for aid to Ukraine. Outclassing everyone but the US. Presenting Germany as the 'rich' guy who doesn't pay is just wrong. They underspend on defense, thinking ODA is the better investment. If they are going to increase military spending they will just have to cut a little bit in donating and will still be one of the top donors and have adequate military spending at the same time.
Is NATO to defend against Russia? If so, the argument that NATO is a benign organization does not work.
NATO has problems with paying for Europe defense and relaying on US to defend and pay for everything...
Ironic is the country that not paying their share of NATO expenses are also the moust critical of USA.
BTW iam European citizen
The US never insisted too much on the European 2% contribution because they want to do things their way and not take in account any European policies or interests. For example, if they decide it is in the interest of the US to blow up Nordstream pipelines, they just go ahead and do it, without have to ask if Europe is ok with that. Given that kind of behavior it is logical that EU citizens are not to keen on financing that. For Europeans this was an economic disaster and it will make them forever weaker and dependent.
The US invoked article 5 after september the 11th. When does UK send US the bill for all the UK men that died for them never mind the cost of all the equipment we sent. They gotta pay.
As soon as you Brits pay up for both World Wars we fought in your defense you ingrates! And if you Brits don't behave yourselves we'll take you out of the US friends and family plan....It's not like you folks have that many friends left or trading partners after your latest fiasco of Brexit! Just remember who your Daddy is! And if you're lucky and play nice we may even let you into NAFTA or make you the 51st State. You already have nice Blue Passports, the same color as ours after Brexit....lol!
So far the US is the only one that has asked NATO's help.
@@annakingry9157agreed. That's why it's hypocrisy for trump to dare even go there.
Let's be honest, the invocation was to give the appearance of a joint operation, with only the UK contributing materially to the battle. And the real issue in Afghanistan was over in a few months twenty years ago, and the whole rest of the effort was a stupid nation building effort that wasn't justified on the base of Article 5. And even if there wasn't an Article 5 invocation, NATO was involved in Libya and the Former Yugoslavia.
Nato countries are doing the right thing not bankrupting themselves on excessive defense spending as the US has been doing for generations as politicians are beholden to the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned them about.
All NATO countries near Mr. Putins aggressorland are spending easily above 2% of GDP level. But, it isnt only about money or equipment. It is about will also. I think eastern NATO countries have strong will for defending themselves, even if USA wont help. Still, IMO Trump's statement was shameful.
And surpassingly ignorant.
Ok let trump tell us who said it to him and let see if the individual concours. I suspect it may be a figment of his imagination.
I think Europe is rich enough to run NATO and Germany is a top economy, NO NEED TO OCCUPY IT ANYMORE!
It is not ture. NATO members are paying their burdens after the ukraine war.
I love how hes able to voice a contrary position as eloquently as he does. I think our former president could take a lesson from that
I hope they stop free riding on the USA.
I am “America First”, but I am certainly not “America Only”. I fully appreciate the, “To whom much is given, much is expected.” I’ve tried to live my life that way and I hope others will as well. That said, I don’t want to be a sucker either.
This is utter bs. While the US spent a lot on the military, the EU followed the US in hotspots with huge economic aid, in a mutually supportive good cop/bad cop tandem. The EU was not on a free ride. Not to mention that the small East and South East European countries were not accepted in NATO because their spending contribution would somehow balloon the organization's budget. If the issue is with some of the largest countries in the organization, then how does questioning the entire organization really help? Particularly, when the smaller countries are in the line of fire, should NATO collapse. All this is mainly a middle finger to Eastern Europe, and completely unjustified at that.
Everyone needs to learn self defense. When I was 18, I hitchhiked alone across Europe before the internet, before cellphones, during the late 1960’s. And I was female! C’mon people, you can’t depend on Mommy and Daddy or the moneybags Americans to bail you out when the bullies come rampaging across the blasted plain.
America should live up to their promise to defend Ukraine, however, it’s in Europe’s interest to spend more of their GDP on their OWN defense.
Why were you crying then, after article 5, post-9/11? Don't worry, Europe will adapt, but then, you can cry on your own if you're in trouble. And no, you're not that big as to solve issues alone. Bye!
All NATO countries come close to the 2% and some of the larger countries exceed it. Because Trump says something doesn't make it true. Usually, he's wrong.
Self defence huh? Do you really think Biden would risk millions of American lives with nuclear war if Putin marched into Latvia? Seriously? Those American bases and nukes are not there to protect Europeans... or at least, it is said they are... but then Biden also claims he really loves Palestinians... and let's face it... the world is not convinced..... Maybe US troops and nukes should peacefully leave Europe, as is the will of the majority of Europeans... just like the Russians did in 1990.... and... maybe protect the US border insead? Just an idea. Vote Trump!
We don't underspend, the US overspends. What war was really needed in the last 50 years?
Trump would not have the power to exit the USA from NATO there is no need for the Europeans to be stressed besides the Ukrainian war has demonstrated the ineptitude of the Russian military
Russia is the riches country on earth in terms of natural resources. Oil, gas, you name it. Why on earth would anyone believe that Russia would seek the costs of war against NATO? To gain what? Instead, it would be far more plausible that other countries are eying Russia’s endless resources, seek to weaken and destabilize Russia, so that they can come in and explore those resources. Just like they have been doing for decades to other countries.
Isn’t it the US that makes most of the defense spending necessary. John Bolton as an example is telling. He’s never seen a war he doesn’t want to start. We use to avoid war with diplomacy. Now we use diplomacy to try to stop them.
So. The Russian Ukrainian war is John’s fault? Who knew.
Yes, so far, the US is the one asking for NATO support.
You mean like the diplomacy leading to the Budapest Memorandum which Putin breached? Come back to earth
Republican American administrations gave us Iraq2 & Afghanistan. When referring to American administrators it is useful to distinguish between Republican & Democrat Administrators
We've had 4 years of Trump, and the sky didn't fall down. Thats I why I don't believe a word of this panic and noise making. Besides, a NATO member that pays up, is good for all.
Exactly-!!!
He almost destroyed American democracy! If it wasn’t for the adults in US institutions of government, he might have succeeded! Next time, they won’t be there!
Because we've had Biden to straighten it out.
NATO is not an alliance. It is a huge armed bureacracy. And like any bureacracy it has two priorities...self preservation and expansion. It also acts as a retirement gig for washed up European politicians. All of which would be tolerable if it hadnt lost its way in 1999 when it acted as the tactical and strategic air force for the terrorist UCK/KLA and bombed a European country into submission. As that bit of aggression was allowed by the world community, it and its big member states have only gotten more aggressive
A surprisingly fair analysis
It was completely inappropriate for Trump to say something like that in public, especially considering the current situation in Europe.
Inappropriate is donalds middle name
I don't disagree. He deliberately makes inflammatory comments like this to 1) fire up his base, and 2) make everyone else freak out. Yet while I'm by no means, a Trump supporter, the lack of seriousness that many EU nations have taken toward defense investment, and the implicit attitude that, "we don't need to spend money on defense, because the U.S. will be there to bail us out" is a real thing, and a real problem that needs to be fixed.
That's the ONLY WAY Trump stays in the news. He's inept, incompetent, unqualified.
As dispicable as Trump is, the man is a manchild, he's like a 5 year old and says what many, if not most Americans feel about NATO... Don't hate the player, hate the game....
What situations ? The one you created yourself?
Wow pretty good take from Ian
As a Canadian we punch above our weight, but yes we could start by paying our personal more case in point Canadian Colone average salary is $61,099 CDN. Compared to the $118,559 USD. Thats F'n Bonkers.
Coming from one of the newer, smaller NATO countries, I know for a fact that our military has, since the 1990s, been investing in US made military equipment solely to make & keep the army US / NATO compatible. $9 billion plus in 2022, for example. Trump likes to talk about money, and NATO is a bonanza in terms of money for the US defense industries and the American economy. The alliance is also a guarantee for peace in Europe (Russia hasn't invaded even one inch of US backed NATO territory), so it's a win-win for everyone.
EU countries pay for retirement and health care when US pays for their defense
US pays for innovation and to keep the global oil and cash flow moving.
That math isn’t close to being true. The shortfall in defense spending is measured in fraction of a percentage point of GDP…….0.65% shortfall from 2% target for Germany. German healthcare costs are 13% of GDP and the government pays a fair chunk of it….about 40%…..so 5.2% of GDP. This is 8 times the shortfall of defense spending. Saying nothing about retirement/pension system.
@@reddrabbit5056if they start spending more on defense, any reduction in social spending will have severe consequences for them. If it’s really that insignificant as you suggest, why aren’t countries like Canada spending more? It’s because they can’t afford to without sacrificing social spending.
Health care in the EU is more cost effective than in the USA, so the USA pays more for health care than EU. Also, countries like Greece, Romania, Latvia, Poland, Estonia, are paying for NATO, while countries that are well off like Norway, Belgium, Netherlands don't. Germany, is just now projected to meet its commitments in the future. And a lot of EU countries have more generous retirement ages and pension amounts than the US. So there is no commonality across the EU. The well off and safe are beggaring the other EU countries.
@@Tomren44 :
Also because Canada is not exactly the same as ESTONIA.
Bremmer: "Do more for others" - Translation: Constantly be involved in overseas conflicts - why? - well because we're America and that's what we've always done. The tide is beginning to turn on these narrow minded concepts.
Who hasn't got a trump
problem?
money for Ukraine....How much has Germany given???
I’d listen to trump. NATO nations should spend more but only but domestic weapons. Create local jobs, not rely on an American company that might be forced by a Trump government beholden to Russia into giving secrets. That will drive Trump nuts
Sure, get together with the other member nations and hammer out a new provision to the existing treaty, or create a new treaty. Once that NEW treaty is ratified and adopted there will be "consequences". UNTIL that time, however, we must honor the existing treaties, as written! Good discussion though
Courtney
I always thought that article 5 of NATO is to come to the defense military of a member if that member is in a war with another non nato country.
I just learned today that NATO members don’t have to get involved militarily but under the article 5, members need to supply support financially, military, Negotiations and involve directly in physical combat.
In this regard, people would think that once a member is in a war, the all nato members will take arms and fight…Wrong, it would still be the members states to determine what kind of help that member will provide.
Hypothetically Trump could have just send 100 billions dollars to the member state that is in war and Trump would just tell the member state…
“As the head of the Americans people, this is my commitment”. Which fall under NATO article 5.
I believe NATO members should think twice not to put too much load on our US government shoulders.
2% of each GDP nato members is only a small share compared to our US contribute.
If a member cannot contribute that 2% then Trump over exaggerated his statement but in reality he got a point.
and let's not pay our police - let police work for free
Agree with everything said. I would add that just the umpteenth time that Trump is taking the side/supporting/bolstering/praising/defending Russia even once when compared to the U.S. fills me with horror on top of the fact that our allies are nothing more than a financial transaction sentiment. It's as if Trump aspires to not be more like Russia but rule like Putin and so therefore Russia by default becomes greater than the U.S. in Trump's estimation.
trump looks at Putler like a 5 year old kid looks at their father.
Also, Trump doesn't know what NATO is.
You're all TDS loons.
South Dakota doesn't spend as much on Defense as California does also
It's a percentage of GDP. So you wouldn't expect that South Dakota would spend as much as California.
I concur, that free-riding on the bus is not in anyones interest. Calling nations that are under-budgeting their own military free-riders is a low blow (though the issue addressed has to be resolved). The US was and is the main beneficiary of the pax americana. Why is there not more effort by US media outlets to get that point across?
Says America, who invoked article 5 for invading Afghanistan, lol. Should we send a bill for that?
So far, we're the only ones who have asked NATO countries for help.
Poland spend more than the US on defence per capita and per GDP.
As a Scandinavian I do understand the problem but might be a bit more nuanced. It's like a Netflix fam. Subscription, the US pays the bulk and most NATO members pay a bit to share the code and watch along. But there have been major benefits for the US to be the main subscriber, they get to pic and choose the package and the rest just had to follow along. So fare being the member with biggest military has ment that the US could pick the conflict they cared about (Afghanistan, Irak, Asia etc ) and then have the rest had to follow. Being able to be the one in control of world politics meant that a few years back, The US was happy to spend the most on military, and then tell the world that it wasn't only them fighting against a certain country. Remember that the only country to activate article 5 in NATO (the all for one oath) was the US after 9/11. Now the world is changing, and of course all NATO members should pay a minimum of 2 %. But also consider, where is most of NATO military budgets being spent? That is going to the US weapon industry, buying expensive planes (F-35) buying AR rifles from colt, buying military software, self defense missile systems, rockets, smart bombs etc. So the biggest beneficiary of an increased NATO spending, is the world biggest weapons exporter, the US. That creates 1000 's of jobs and tax revenue from this business. Europe at the same time has to economically fight higher gas prises (the lack of cheap Russian gas) and buying new expensive U.S. liquid gas, taking in refugees from Ukraine, and spending a lot of money on providing weapons (and civilian aid) to the Ukrainian war. At the same time a lot of Europe is hurt under fewer young and more old citizens putting a strain on welfare systems and tax revenue. So yes we should pay our bid, but it is not easy so the real answer is... It's complicated
FDJT.
Trump wants Putin to get him elected
.Prof.Dr.Nasir Fazal Cambridge
Please explain how you can say the U.S. is the richest country in the world and be $34 Trillion +/- in debt??
This is Trump's tough love for the EU. 🤣
Trump's love for Putin.
You unleashed lots of wars nearby our continent provoking remarkable disasters (such as in Libia, Iraq, Afganistan ecc.) we are still paying the price for in terms of waves of migrants ecc. not to mention what NATO - so Usa - did with Ukraine provoking the ongoing war with Russia. Now you have the duty of protecting Europe without any doubt.
Your excuses for American defeatism undermines America.
In my observation of history, defeatists are personal cowards who choose not to defend themselves as war looms in the future. They simply cannot stomach the loss of comfort even to prepare. They will surrender.
Most others will wait until attacked and then defend themselves. Few of us initiate war, although pressing for strategic advantage can prompt both skirmishes and general war.
The key is to prepare. Preparation is the key to both detering and winning wars. Then the courageous among us can respond after we are first attacked.
Decide who you are, but silence the defeatists and prepare well.
NATO should start ramping up conscription and start paying for more artillery, tanks, MICV's, attack helicopters.
Stop whining 😊
There is an egregious lack of understanding of history, geopolitics, economics and NATO within certain strata in the USA that Trump capitalizes on and that fits well with his nationalistic rhetoric.
Some NATO countries have just a token military or none at all, and are therefore totally reliant on external support, patrolling and surveillance from neighboring NATO countries
Some NATO-countries are critically important from a geopolitical rationale due to geographic location or national resources.
Canada - a member of NATO - used only 1.38% of its GDP on defense in 2022 and is USA's closest neighbor, but is not singled out.
Iceland, for instance, belong to both these categories and is a maritime gateway to the US.
So will Trump not honor US commitments because Iceland - with a total population of 300.000 and no army - does not spend 2% of its GDP on national defense (0% each year 1945-2024)?
Of course, the US has a military base near Keflavik, the Norwegian Air Force regularly patrols the air space and both the British and Norwegian navies have units earmarked for Iceland.
Other points that people seem to forget is that priorities and objectives within NATO began to shift after the Warsaw pact disbanded and the USSR dissolved.
In the following decade and a half, almost every single NATO-member cut their national military budget in half, and the US does not count among the exceptions.
Then came the UN-led involvement in the Balkan wars, the alliance of the willing in Iraq, 9-11 and the US invoking article 5 with following engagements in several other areas of operation.
All these factors led to a geopolitical strategic shift within the alliance and the potential threat picture.
None of the engagements of NATO-countries in this period were to defend the territories of any NATO-country and they were limited in scope and duration.
This again led to a change in NATO's military objectives and strategies towards the fight on terror rather than territorial defense, much at the behest of the US I might add.
Many of the smaller NATO-countries in Europe had to make hard choices given their size and population.
Either participate in all NATO engagements outside the defined territories in the charter, reallocating from a national/regional focus, or stay apart and continue to prioritize national defense.
None of the NATO countries have geopolitical global aspirations or commitments on par with the US - except maybe France and the UK on a much lesser scale.
Economically, most European countries do have a global perspective and engagement with the group of countries adhering to and in compliance with the economic order established in the years following WW2, but it only extend to economic and political relations.
Another aspect that is rarely discussed, is the military industrial base of each country and ongoing standardization for interoperability within NATO, which leads to much of the military expenditure, especially of the smaller countries, going directly to aliment the US economy and not their own. When the US spends money on its military, the money stays within the US for thew most part.
It should be noted that military expenditure within NATO has risen sharply ever since 2014 and Russia's annexation of Crimea and the instigation of the Donbas debacle.
So when Trump came on the stage several years later and denigrated NATO-countries for their lack of commitment and over-reliance on US-support, it had already started to change along with with the rising threat from Russia. After Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022, that change accelerated. When Trump boast of bullying NATO-allies to fulfill its
Currently, the US is lagging behind Poland as to military expenditure as a percentage of GDP and two other countries are also above 3%.
The deadline set forth to be in compliance with the 2% guideline is by the end of 2024.
Between 2/3 and 3/4 are expected to be above the target by the deadline, with the rest following suit by 2026.
What we are currently observing is that Europe is ramping up its military industrial base (not resorting to buying from the US) and its force readiness in the advent of future conflict.
Also, it is worth mentioning that combined military and financial aid to Ukraine from European countries - bilaterally and thru the EU - is double that of the US since 2022 (in real terms as well as percentage of GDP). It doesn't include the care for Ukrainian refugees or medical procedures on Ukrainian soldiers performed in European countries.
The way the Europeans paid through allowing America to print dollars and spend from the paper they print to fund the private American military complex. Our debt tells the story , consider it there fair share.
I agree that the European NATO members need to step up spending, but Trump is running an extortion racket by signaling to Russia that the US won't defend them.
Trump's love and loyalty are to Putin, rather than the US and our allies. Putin wants to over run free nations at will to incorporate into the Soviet Union. That's one of NATOs strongest services: they all stand united in his way.
Russia is the riches country on earth in terms of natural resources. Oil, gas, you name it. Why on earth would anyone believe that Russia would seek the costs of war? To gain what? Instead, it would be far more plausible that other countries are eying Russia’s endless resources, seek to weaken and destabilize Russia, so that they can come in and explore those resources. Just like they have been doing for decades to other countries.
@@mrtopcat2 What you described is a major reason Russia invaded Ukraine. The Bonbass Region is rich in natural resources. Putin is a throwback to the dictator's and despots of old where 'might makes right' and it's only a bad idea if you lose. The NATO exists NOT to seize Russia's resources. It exists to deter further Russian aggression. Trump is only capable of supporting NATO if there's something in it for him...
Great show. As much as I detest him , I think he is on to something.
What does Putin and Russia have on Trump
How does telling NATO members that they have to adhere to NATO's treaty provisions weaken the alliance? Who cares more about NATO - 1) people who allow NATO members to flout their treaty obligations; or 2) people who make them pay their required share of GDP on defense?
America has the most idea related society nobody can compete with and were at 8th grade education😋 India a close 10th but they are winning😋
If you let trump win 🤐 the state can do catch up😋 who cares about the bobble head in charge😋
We should implement a wealth measurement index for poorer nations in NATO.
For example: France, Britain and Germany should be contributing 2% of their gdp
But Italy, Greece and Romania and others may only be able to contribute 1.5%
Different metrics could be used to decide who pays what, but gdp per capita could be a good place to start.
We need to recognize the disparity in financial capacity of each country.
Most countries are close to or at the 2% mark. Many exceed 2%.
Greece and Romania are meeting their goals. Greece, because fellow NATO member Turkey is right next door. Romania borders Ukraine and has some historical memory. The countries that aren't meeting their goals are for the most part choosing to not do so because of internal politics, like Germany, Norway, and Canada, not because of inability to pay.
It is a story to get attention and it worked. They should pay their 2%
They do. Not every nation is as gung-ho military as the US. So far, we're the only ones who have asked for NATO help. Putin (and therefore Trump) hates NATO because it doesn't allow Putin to take over Europe.
@@annakingry9157 Most countries only pay about 1.25% Poland the the three Baltic countries pay above 2%
Trump said it to get attention and it worked.
Agree we need to commit to "rising all boats" economic policy, and not just those who agree with me on social or political values.
I agree that "freeloader" countries (and Canada is one of those) should come under increasing pressure and some kind of consequences for their failure to pull their weight, but anything that undermines solidarity and an absolute mutual defence pact is a terrible mistake. Any additional funding that laggard countries contribute cannot possibly make up for the damage done by Trump to make US support conditional.
But Americans also underestimate the privileged position they are in globally in determining and benefiting from designing and controlling the international security and economic architecture. Yes the US has invested heavily (disproportionately) in international institutions from the UN to the World Bank to the IMF to the WTO to NATO, and have done a lot of the heavy lifting over the decades. But how much will Americans like it (especially businessmen) if the US dollar is no longer the international reserve currency, or they get outvoted at the UN, or they lose the capacity to turn off the SWIFT payments system?
You want to know what it will be like to be an American once America stops investing in and supporting the international world order? Ask the British. They used to run the world and now they have to suck up to the Americans to pretend relevance.
Ian question regardless of spending and domestic policy, is NATO importance to the US decline do to Russias decline over the long term and most of Europes inability to project power outside of Europe
In our system of government who enforces SC rulings?
Biden problem right now
3:09 Canada is super cold and since it’s not Greenland it is mellow.
Random Inflation Fact: the cost of cocaine has been steady since the mid 80’s but it’s half off if you buy it on the dark web with bitcoins
Canada provides national healthcare, instead of bolstering their military, because they feel safe due to being on our border. If countries aren’t up to 2% GDP by 2030- remove them from NATO & all “most favored nation” trade agreements. Yes, I’m an old guy, but grew up with a USAF pilot father. Consequently, my family was stationed in Turkey, Greece, England, Holland, Japan, & Germany - to protect those countries.
What, because Trump is known for paying taxes? Stupid disinformation suckered up by the stupid. Trump has avoided taxes and paying those under his businesses. How is this a mantra for the facistly inclined MAGA?
The last country to invade Canada was the USA.
Time for Canada to leave NATO, too many Canadians died in Afghanistan for the Yankees.
Poland, Latvia, Turkey, and Hungary probably need to change sides and Finns, Swedes declare neitral again under Russian hegemony before Europe responds by preparing adequately.
Or.. Y'all can work to have peace and make diplomacy a thing.... The US middle class is. Shrinking, infrastructure is falling apart let's not discuss what happened during covid, military spen9is the only industry thriving in the US.... so that's what they want for the EU.... Picking fight word wide