Roco z21 DCC model train controller review
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
- DCC model railway controller review - z21 Roco / Fleischmann
A new review for your viewing pleasure! I finally get round to reviewing my DCC system - the z21 by Roco / Fleischmann. In summary...I love it!
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awesome video, that side by side comparison of the z21 and Z21 was exactly what I'd spent the past hour on the internet looking for! thanks again
pro trick: you can watch series at Kaldrostream. I've been using it for watching loads of movies lately.
@Karson Joshua yea, I have been watching on KaldroStream for months myself :)
Recently got one of these, I'm new too the hobby and these are by far the best controller on the market from doing lots of research. They really are in a league of their own. The other big boys will need wireless /app ability for controls if they want to keep up. It was your review that convinced me to get one!
+Bristletooth Ha ha, I wish I was on commission! It's a great system, still love using mine.
Brilliant explanation. As you know, I have been using the Z21 for many months and without glitches or problems of any kind. It has an easy, intuitive set up and it is full of easy to use features. Rob
Thanks Rob, good to hear you are still enjoying yours.
Well what a brilliant demonstration - I've bought one! Many thanks for the vid!
Simon, thank you so much! Just the thing I was looking for as a complete newbie, a really clear distinction between the two models. For me, white is the way to go, I would never have reached that conclusion from other web sources and would probably ended up in one of those "all the gear and no idea" situations. Well paced delivery too. Hopefully you still check old vids for comments, cheers!
best thing about this controller is setting up double heading. You have to invest the time to time-check your locos over a section of track but once you've done that the unit does all the maths for you! Perfect.
+Andrew Carter (Calling All Stations) It is a great controller, and I've not even got round to using the double heading features yet!
Admiring your absorbent and detailed video, Simon! The whole process seems to me more straight forward after my watching it.
I am using the z21 Start.
However I am experiencing an absolute disaster while trying to add locos with decoders installed (actually, nowadays, I am just using the test board for the purpose).
I cannot see, after some endless hours of experimenting, as how to make a loco run, i.e. to be controlled by the z21. z21 reads the decoder all right, all its parameters. Then I assign a new address to the decoder and the same to the loco. But when I go to the Steering (the throttle) - nothing happens: the loco's speed control is inactive at all! It's funny though, that after I deactivate the z21 and just open the app along, the Speed control becomes adjustable (i.e. I can "play with it", toggle it)!...
Even if I don't assign the new address, but leave it as 3, it still doesn't influence the throttle control...
What am I doing so terribly wrong?! I have a gut feeling it is something very small and obvious, but I cannot crack the problem!
Cold you please, give me your educated suggestion? Many thanks!
My compliments on the video. I watched from about 23 minutes, that you popped up the cabin view of a NS 1200, but the z21 displayed the locomotive as an ÖBB 1116 Railjet. The NS 1200 is a Dutch locomotive and the ÖBB 1116 Railjet is from Austria. However, I got really exited by the z21 and your efforts to make an overview about this technology. I think I will buy the Z21. thx a lot!
What a nice piece of kit Simon, like you I have given up on my Hornby controller's but I went for NCE. I read a fair bit about the z21 on another forum and thought it interesting. Your review is a real eye opener most enlightening and well put together.
I want one...
Thanks Stuart, I tried to fit as much as possible into the vid, it turned into a bit of an epic! It is a great system for me as I'm into my iPads,iPhones etc.
Hi Simon, I purchased the Black Z21 it is a fantastic system, also you mentioned it in an earlier video and then Rob in Colorado bought one and just had to get one too, great video looking forward to the next one....Steve
Thanks Steve, glad you like it, I did the same...saw it on someone else's video and just had to get one!
Thanks Simon for an excellent, in depth review! I downloaded the iPhone app whilst watching this and I love it. When I actually start my layout I shall be picking on of these up. Thank you again!
This looks like an amazing system! It's even easier than the Ecos system for importing photos of your own locos into the system. But if you have several people running trains on your layout, they'll each need a tablet, so it'll get pricey very fast. I've been searching for a model railroad FPV system like that for a while, but I'm surprised to find that it actually exists as a turnkey consumer product!
Looks good Simon & so straight forward too
Yep, that's the best thing about it, easy to use so doesn't get in the way of playing trains!
Thanks for posting this video. I ready to buy one now.
Looks like a really good system
I like this better than the Hornby e-Link. Also the option for a legacy handset is good for direct operation of the trains as well :).
Ash.
+BritishRail60062 Yep, have to agree, I have more fun running the trains using the z21.
+Simons Shed I have just bought the NCE Powercab as I am still a newbie to DCC although I have experience with the Lenz systems :). But I plan to link up a Laptop using the JMRI software and the PC interface module.
Ash.
Great product and well explained. As I think you know, I did a review on this last year. :)
Thanks, it's a great system. Hope yours is still going well!
Oh, it still is. And it's Lasted longer than my Hornby elink by far.
Hi I was wondering what was your thinking about changing the way you control the layout, from ...e-link...to ...z21
Im in the process of building my layout and have chosen the ..e-link...
Was it just a few more ..bells and whistles.... or is the z21 that much better....
Cheers
+Anthony Surman the elink was ok but I found it a bit clunky to use, and it would disconnect from the computer every now and again. I still have it, but haven't used it since I got the z21 as its more intuitive and fun to use.
After seeing this I’ve just bought one which comes with the multimaus as well
Just Purchased Mine. thanks for the heads up
Hi Simon, just one question, what is the relevance of buying a z21 from Germany? The only one i could find was from there.
Martin.
Good video very interesting. The Z21 is a very good DCC station.
Hi Simon can you tell me if I need a circuit breaker with the Z21 white ? Was thinking psx
Hi Simon, went for the white box z21 with multimaus, should be getting later this week
Great video Simon! I know what's on my Christmas list this year!
Thanks, it is a great system!
Nice review Simon. Really been thinking I need to make the jump to dcc, something like this makes real sense and at a good price. Cheers
Thanks Scott, it's a joy to use and I think its well worth the money.
Simon thanks for answering so soon. I have the loco running on its own on the program track now. I changed the track for a newer one. Still not getting the z21 to confirm that it is programmed. The whole business of programming the main track, read and program is vague.Is read, reading the CV of the track? or is it reading the z21 program??? CV values all a mystery. You can guess I am a new DCC user but the love the potential of the z21. I have managed to setup locos and the route maps with controls. Very easy. Used macs since 84 so not a problem with computers just CVs!!
+greenjay7 Just remembered something that caused me a few issues....in the z21 app, go into "Settings", then "Z21 Settings" and turn the "RailCom" switch OFF. I found it interfered when I tried to program my DCC point motors so maybe its causing your problem too??
The CV values we read / write are in the DCC chip itself, in the loco. So it has to read the value off the chip via the wiring in the loco, through the wheels, to the track, to the wires going into the z21, so there's lots of points where the signal could get interrupted (usually the wheels / track). Different DCC chips support different values so its worth trying something common, e.g. just enter 1 in the CV-number box and tap Read, and it should give you the DCC address of the loco.
Very good explanation!
Hi Simon just a quick question I have purchased the z21 starter set I'm concerned regarding the track voltage running in n gauge I was wondering if you have experienced any problems or issues
kind regards
Garry
Hi Simon, i was thinking of using this system for a 00 garden railway but with the intention of having multiple users and different stations/yards around the layout with their own phone or tablet connected to the router. what happens when a user, lets say in a shed sends a train out that the next user in the garden (out of sight) who would need to take control it. Is it a simple as the next user just needs to find the train on their device and then take control of it as if it was starting from stationary.
Hello Simon, I was wondering if this has a record routes function, like you can with the Hornby Railmaster?
I would also like to know this, but by what I can gather, you can link in a PC with a choice of programmes that will do all of that stuff for you. I am looking for a demo on RUclips but no luck so far.
Hello Simon
May I ask is this model number " Roco / Fleischmann 10825 z21 start "white from starter" with Roco WLAN Package 10814" ?
Many thanks Simon R
White box is now available as a single unit
Great review and presentation ,,,
Thanks Alan.
Thankyou very much, this was very informative and helpful
can you each train that you then have. ..program it to ride it?.. without a camera inside a train?..
I've enjoyed your channel for a while now and it is very informative as I make plans to return from Hobby-Exile (27 years).
About your use of the z21. Have you adjusted the Track Voltage? The z21 FAQ notes that you can't change the track voltage with the white version, and the default output of 17V (1 less than input voltage of the power supply) seems a bit high for N gauge) noting that some DCC decoder specs don't stretch to 17V track voltage. Or is this a false concern I've building?
Thanks for any advice you can provide.
+Chapel Milton Just done a few tests and, although I can go into Settings in the app and change the voltage values (and it remembers them), putting a voltmeter on the track it reads 16.9 no matter what settings I send. I've been using it for a while now and have not had any problems, but let me know if you find an easy way to drop the voltage down a bit!
Can it be used for an n scale layout with dcc engines?
Hello simon great video. I'm looking for your advice and understanding with a problem i need to know. I'm restarting my n gauge layout into DDC and would like to have fleischmann trains but wondering are all ddc controllers compatible with each other plus ddc trains. i.e. Buy a Fleischmann ddc train and Grahamfarish ddc train and run it on my layout with any ddc controller. Or do i have to stay with one brand.Looking forward to your advice hope you can help, thanks Gary
well done that man great vid
Thanks for watching 👍
Please help me.I have purchased a white 21.However it continuously show a red light ???
+Simon Kilvington That's usually a short circuit somewhere on the track. If you can't find it is there a way you can just connect 1 separate piece of track to the z21 just to confirm it works? You should be able to reset the z21 by turning the power off and on, or using the black button on the front.
Hi Simon. Great video! I was all set up to get an NCE system and then just saw this! Quick question. What Amps is the white and black boxes respectively. And why have you bought both of them? Can they be joined together? Thanks.
Hi Owen, I only bought the white version, the video just uses a picture of the black one to compare the features, you only need 1 version. From memory the white version is just over 2 amps, the black 3.5. It's is a joy to use, great system.
Great video! It's a nice system! Can you have say 2 ipads loaded up and controlling the same layout/loco?
Cheers, Michael
Yes, I sometimes have one of the kids using the iPhone with me on the iPad. The only issue is if you are both giving commands to the same loco at the same time. It does work, the loco will accept all the commands , but it only displays the correct speed on the device the issued the last command.
Hi Simon,
Thanks for the info. However I have problems with programming CVs. I keep getting program error!! No suggested CV values like your presentation shows. What do you think I have done wrong.
I am trying to program an A1 Tornado with a TCS Chip. Should I change the chip?
+greenjay7 Tricky to know whats going wrong...is the A1 the only loco on the track? Also make sure the track and loco wheels are clean. Does the loco run with the DCC chip?
Actual comparison between White z21 and Black Z21 start at 30:20
Brilliant Vid - really helpful - thanks a lot!
Hi Simon, I have the z21 like you and about to program turnouts like you did. Using DCC Concepts accessory decoder with seep motors. I am starting with a three way point which I guess is not wise for a beginner. Can you give me step by step guide please. Jon Greenwood from Oz
15.38 can you use al those functions?, like : lights or sound or whatever? or not?
You can yes, as long as the loco has lighst, dcc sound etc
Hi again Simon, thanks for your advice , You know I think you have the answer. I have built two helix in my layout and though they are gradient 1:50, I have vastly improved pulling power of particularly small locos when ascending it by using DCC concepts Power Base. My 14xx smallest in my collection 0-4-2 ascends with 30 wagons!! In your layout at the bottom of the helix is that a fiddle yard? Cheers for now, greenjay7, Australia.
Hi Simon, great review, on which I purchased one! I actually received a Z21 start, which I assume is the same. Just one question, having some trouble, i can query the loco on the track, get the CV values etc, but I can't get the steering board to do anything. My investigations lead me to believe I need to activate it. Do you remember having to do this at all?
Thanks
Graham
Actually, I was running the wrong version of maintenance.exe :-( It's ok now...
I've heard people mentioning activation...I never had to do it, must be a new(ish) thing? Glad you sorted it!
Graham Bell I had to have mine activated to but I don't know why. Luckily the DCC Train automation shop I bought this from in Somerset who were very good did this for me too. Mine arrived yesterday and was also a z21 start that I hope too is the same as that of the video !
hi simon can you used this system with the ecos controller station or do you used the z21 black system many thank steve
No idea I'm afraid, dont have an ecos controller. Had a quick search but couldn't find anything conclusive!
Does the z21 (small z) power your whole shed valley layout.
Yes, just got the z21, no boosters or anything, seems fine so far.
Am about to order the black box Z21 as has separate outputs for prog track. Still have loads to do with my layout including soldering a wire to med peco electrofrogs no where to solder a wire
Would can work if linking to layout together to make a larger one
The CAN bus? ...I think that's what its for but I've never used it so not sure.
Would you recommend this over the hornby e link?
Definitely, I still have the elink but have not used it since I got the z21.
+Simons Shed ok thank you for replying I am just starting to think about going dcc as I found out a most of my engines are already comparable and just need a chip so I am dedicating my loft to a massive oo gauge layout hopefully the size should be about 15 meters by 10 meters total.
What do you do for spares and repairs now that Roco / Fleischmann have gone into administration.
They haven't gone into administration, as far as I'm aware?! They trade as 2 brand names used by a German parent co.
roco went into administration a few years back ...and fleischmann made a deal with roco of Austria merge as one company so to survive and not to be bought by say hornby international. ....jim
hovermotion : The brands "Roco" and "Fleischmann" are owned by *Modelleisenbahn Muenchen AG* in Munich, Germany. Both brands still operate under their respective brand names. However, *Fleischmann* just recently filed for *administrative bankruptcy protection* since 33 employees simply can't come up with the amounts needed to pay the pensions of 660 ex-employees.
I do business on a regular basis with the Modelleisenbahn Muenchen AG and can confirm that I get everything I order from them. I am a registered dealer for them in the US (Far Beyond Rails, LLC, farbeyondrails.net). So far, no problems at all.
+Erhard Baltrusch cool info..........
hovermotion , sometimes, being German has its advantages :-))
You're welcome!
how Consist inverted using Z21
Hi Simon.. please how can you use this with a laptop?
I've never done it, but apparently yes, you can. Have a look on www.z21.eu/en/FAQ-Support/FAQ it mentions iTrain and a few other programs you can use.
Can the unit controls feather signals and if so how
I managed to get it working with Dapol signals - ruclips.net/video/l1GU1mKPSYQ/видео.html
Simons Shed thanks but colour route indicators would they be supporter
Great review simon. looks a great system. how would you compare it to the e-link? Thanks Dave
Thanks, I prefer it to the elink, the z21 app is much slicker, and easier to setup and use. I haven't used the elink since I bought the z21.
Hi great video, i detect that you are a master on this so I have Z21 the last version, and have a loco MTH item #80-2350-1, and I did something on the cv programming or change something, but me loco don't run any more, i try to reset at factory setting, but Z21 does not detect anything, could you please me support on this, thks in advance
How do I tell the unit it’s n gauge not 00 or ho
It doesn't know/care what scale you are using, it just controls any DCC locos
Simons Shed ok then how would i set up maximum speeds or use the speed indicators
hi simon .... ........................z21 V elink can you help me
thanks tony
Hi Tony z21 for me. I just find it so much easier and more fun to use.
Cheers m8
Only downside of the app is if u use it on mob it will be running date internet via date not wifi
Its only a local wifi connection so it wont use any data allowance 👍
In England router is pronounced as rooter
peter stakounis It's pronounced 'rooter' in Scotland as well.
what is the difference between Z21 and z21 ??
эх мне бы такую штучку кто то подарил бы или похожую
DCC a wonderful concept still unfortunately fundamentally flawed. As DCC was invented by an Electrical Engineer in the early 1980's, who had no understanding of railways. He simply created a commercially attractive solution to the major area of resistance preventing model railways becoming a mainstream hobby - i.e the electronics involved.
As a result NO provision was made for the most important aspect of real railways, which is the physical inter-action between train movement and signalling. Quite the contrary. DCC has no option but to replace the traditional 12v DC in the rails, with 16v AC, as only AC (Alternating Current) can carry messages between the controller and the train or accessory "chips". In other words you can now move numerous trains simultaneously in any direction you like and even have head on crashes, which goes against the most fundamental safety rules of the real railway. 12v DC wired layouts won't allow head on crashes simply because DC ensures all locomotives go in the same direction, so it does at least start by complying with one of the most important real life safety rules - to prevent head on crashes.
There are a number of manufacturers who provide DCC accessory chips that will operate signals. But it is impossible for these "signal controlling chips" to actually operate the signals in a real life manner. Why? Because these "signal controlling chips" cannot know what track layout you have, or detect the presence of trains in relation to the position of ALL the relevant signals. Signals in real life are inter-linked either mechanically (semaphore signals) or electrically (colour light signals). Why?. Because train drivers need warning signals usually a mile or so in advance of any red, or it will be impossible to stop a train in time.
This problem of inter-facing the trains to the signals in a realistic manner using a Digital system, was soon recognised. But the solution is that computers are now needed along with a comprehensive understanding of both electronics, and real life signalling. This of course defeats the simplicity of DCC and increases the costs still further. It should be added that commercial DCC is itself between 100% and 300% more expensive than traditional 12v DC wiring methods.
Realistically the only way to construct a true model railway as opposed to a toy train set, is to have signalling that works in a real life manner. The only way to do this is to have real life type "track circuits" which provide the inter-face between train and signals. The only way to do all this cheaply is to use a 12v DC system. As 12v DC has the advantage due to its electrical nature of accommodating two separate supplies in the rails (one to move the trains and the other for the track circuits) without creating an electrical short circuit !
The bottom line therefore is that while DCC may seem attractive (although more expensive) it simply prevents a recreation of a real railway in miniature due to its serious technical short comings.
Another misnomer is that the word "Analogue" implies only one alternative. This is of course nonsense. One of the main advantages of using 12v DC is that you can choose from an infinite number of methods to wire your own layout, and tailor the wiring to suit the peculiarities of your layout. Unlike DCC which due to its international standardisation, is locked in stone !!!
Watched again to try and programme a loco; again, nothing to show you how its done, just loads of jargon for those who already know what they're doing. eg: CV to me is a constant velocity joint on my car.
Waste of time. How do you connect the wifi? Magic?
What? You can plug it in to your existing internet - if not the router it comes with sets up a local private WiFi?
No magic - just common sense.