IMPORTANT RHINO CALCULATION ERROR After further investigation I have found the calculation for a rhino platform is: on road = Vehicle load limit - rack weight 100 - 23 = 77kg off road = on road divided by 1.5 77 divided by 1.5 51.3kg was the off road rating for my rhino platform I only had two bedding sheets in my RTT which is 51kg, plus the awning. Meaning I was around 60kg and nearly 10kg over my weight limit Its in small print, in the corner, within the fitting instructions 👍 unsure as to why the website says 100 divided by 1.5 - the weight of your rack (which I calculated wrong anyway in the video, that's why rhino need to calculate it for you, for idiots like me 😂)
TT. This information concerning the roof rack loadings has been around decades ! The origins of ARB Corporation can also clearly trace the experiences of those Ok boomers heading to the Australian Cape with failed accessories back in the 70's ? My Rangie even makes references in the owners booklet to towing on & off-road. It's a typical learning experience which we all discover in due time and hopefully your rig is performing better and legal. V
@@vincentpoole7588 pffffffft. Typical learning experience ha ha ha. How patronising. There were no recommended roof rack off-road limits in the 60’s and 70’s. Yes we discovered by trial and error but in my opinion, Rhino make the information difficult to find for a reason.
But still, I’d be dubious of anything with that little of margin for failure, its a cheap out on engineering. That thing must still be on the edge even at its rated limit. I cant see much longevity on that.
@@jimlstheworldyewww7516 JLS. Even someone like Ronny Dahl's YT Channel is already exceeding the design parameter ! Horses for courses with a never ending chorus of content providers doing the wrong or illegal upload of content which is highlighting the lack of experience or as TT has stated "unqualified" opinions ? Laws of physics can't be broken, but it can be awfully bent or given a nudge. V
I still do not think the limits are the problem here... I did not use rivets to fit my ARB compressor or my VHF Radio, why the hell would anyone think it is a good idea to use rivets on a load bearing structure like a roof rack. This alone makes this product terrible!
I really like the integrity of Tyler. He uses words like “I was in the wrong” “I take responsibility” etc. Thank you for being a man and for overlooking your fault and sharing with us OVERLANDERS your mistakes for us to learn. Good job, mate!
Good on ya mate They are selling a product that is not fit for purpose and hiding behind the fine print I’d expect that from a cheap rack but nothing they do is cheap, well to purchase anyway
Agree 100% mate - they’re made to a price ( cheaply in China ) but it’s not the price they’re charging for the shit ! They sell it as a premium brand with all the pop up ads on here and in all the in ya face camping / caravan mags yet they don’t stand behind their product when the cheap crap fails ! 😡😡😡 Nothing pee’s me off more !!!!
@@4WheelingInNSW Yep, just like most things that are manufactured outside of Australia, it’s built DOWN to a price, not UP to a standard. I prefer to spend a bit more on purchases I regard as necessary & worthwhile, things you hope to get more use out of, there’s still some Aussie manufacturers who pride themselves on quality workmanship.
Agree. Department of fair trading would also agree. You were sold the item under false pretence by the retailer, you are entirely able to ask for a refund. I had a Rhino platform on my last cruiser, and it was junk. I had an eye bolt rip out of the thing on the freeway and my kayak flew off! Lucky not to kill someone. Further, those weight limits should be EXTREMELY conservative, to meet the standards for importation of vehicle accessories. If you ask me you've been stitched up.
Aluminium pop-rivets, the weakest, softest rivet available, pressed through the thin steel of a roof to hold on a roof rack? I'm not even slightly surprised that it came off. If that's Rhino Rack's recommended mounting method, then I am even more surprised. Do they not expect people to load the rack at all?
@ML Off Road Those stated strengths are based on the rivet, and discount the material into which they are fastened. It isn't the rivets that broke here. It's the thin steel roof that bent and allowing the rivets to pull through. Stainless rivets are far stronger than alu. But the thin steel roof is the problem, so also, not a good idea. I once did a test comparing a pop rivet with an AN rivet - solid compressed aircraft rivet that has two flat sides and a shaft. I'm no scientists but it was probably five times stronger than pop rivets, which are rarely found in aircraft because they are not strong enough. Because they must fasten together thin material. They are not designed to do that well.
Yep after speaking with many professionals in the field rivets can be an excellent choice when used with the correct material and preferably stronger rivets, eg structural stainless steel rivets on aircrafts where the material the rivet is being used on is very thick. But a small rivet into steel less then 1mm thick with very little spread of the surface load is not the correct material to use a rivet on for the forces a roof rack creates off-road. As you can see, the rivets ripped straight back out. Ronny just pulled his rhino rack off today and confirmed the supplied rivets were aluminium.
Rhino has definitely paid themselves a disservice by deliberately not informing their customers of the “off-road limit” carrying capacity of their roof racks. They have lost me as a potential customer for sure and undoubtedly many others too. It’s typical of many businesses today. Thanks for sharing this most important information to your viewers. I admire your honesty in expressing your acceptance (to some degree) that in part, you were in the wrong by a mere...3-4kgs overweight. Rhino may have saved a themselves a “few cents” in not admitting/accepting some of the blame/responsibility but eventually they will lose many $$$$$$$ in lost sales through their unwillingness to “stand by you” just because you were a....few kgs overweight. I will share this information to many. Thanks for all of your great videos mate, you’re a very honest and humble bloke and a great ambassador to how a real man conducts himself. You’re a...champ!! 😊👍👍 “PSssst”....love the inclusion of your bloopers. It really...”tops it off”. (Pun intended) 😂😂
Honorable on your part to take responsibility even though it was an honest oversight... and a pretty poor and legalistic response from Rhino. They certainly did not take the opportunity to delight the customer, let alone be sensitive to your predicament... 🤨. In my opinion those load rating formulas should be clearly presented on the product itself (eg as stickers). Informative vid - thanks.
Agree honourable to take responsibility and agree Rhino could have and should have done better but this whole story re-enforces that advice should be received and asked of experts and without wanting to be disrespectful not from you tube influencers. I like Tyler’s trip videos especially the early ones but don’t like the product placement endorsements by all influencers. We have all seen so many you tubers promote one product only to tune in 12 months later to see this product is now the best. As Tyler said do your own research talk to experts and hold them accountable when they don’t do the right thing .....frustrated rant now over enjoy the bush everyone
@@GriftCo I didn’t suggest that in isolation. There are many points in the retail sales process that should involve having the information made readily available and easy to understand. I also totally agree with Tyler’s comments regarding the responsibility of distributors / sales to inform the customer prior to purchase. He also talked about the potential safety risk if the rack came off at speed near other motorists. The stickers would provide a final safeguard at point of installation. Something more permanent on the rack would also provide a safeguard at the point of loading the rack, particularly in the case of a change of ownership of the vehicle or rack. Just an idea 💡
Good on Tyler for coming through with this video. He got the finger from rhino and tuff luck sunshine. When Ronny Dahls rhino rack falls off you watch rhino bend over backwards to help and give him full replacement,free.
Its rhino's response that will stop me from buying from them for my fleet of cars now. The problem is not just a rhino one as several mount in a similar way. But the response IS a rhino problem.
Yep totally agree if a company can’t stand by its own product I steer clear of them and definitely will now if you continue to knowingly push a product that isn’t save on certain vehicles then they should make the community aware and stop marketing towards certain vehicles that rely solely on pop rivets as a means of fastening these roof racks
The on and off road ratings should be stamped into the metal of the rack on both sides in large white lettering so that it is always visible to anyone loading it. Rhino are claiming 100kg so they can sell product with no regard to safety. This is the same BS with vehicle manufactures claiming their ute can tow 3500kg.
@@TylerThompson90 Also it seems as though Rhino need to learn the difference between a design load rating and a breaking limit. Clearly there is no safety factor applied to their ratings for this failure to occur so close to the 'load rating' of the rack.
@@emu4wdadventures631 clearly in 5his case it is not vehicle or rack load that determine the limit but the pop rivets that determine the limit. Only the l8mit imposed by the fitment method determines the limit. As noted in other comments the failure occurs under loading that is effectively within the loading allowed limit as calculated by the formula. So no safety margin. Given the stated difference between road and off road rating the Rhin9 Rack has NO LOAD as limit because clearly even a low speed crash and that rack will flyoff ev3n based on its own mass. IT 8S NOT PASSING ANY CRASH SAFETY TESTS.
ARB responded (thanks Jeremy), so I've correct these numbers, which are much better than I thought. I did these calcs for my 2018 Holden Colorado dual cab: Manufacturer roof rating: 75kg. ARB cab rack (bolted into roof): 30kg. Payload 75-30=45kg *There is no de-rating for ARB cab racks for off-road use.* Static load is limited by Holden specs and remains 75kg total, or 45kg including the cab rack. ARB Ascent canopy with internal supports: 100kg rating. Titan platform: 15kg (rated for 300kg) Payload 100-15=85kg. *There is no de-rating for ARB Ascent canopies for off-road use.* ARB Static limit for canopy is 350kg, less platform of 15kg, leaves 335kg for static load, so the 300kg rating of the Titan platform becomes the limit. I've always been very conservative with what I put up top. Now I have an understanding of why. Thanks, Tyler, you're a champ. At least ARB have only one dynamic rating and one static rating. Sorry you had to lose your roof rack for the rest of us to get this information. I have a rack bag on the cab rack for bedding and clothing, and on the platform I have pv panels and a shovel, so nothing heavy on either. Edited with the new ARB figures supplied by email.
Thanks mate, I've spent the last hour trying to find info on ARB roof racks without much luck, a 30kg 'guestimate' on the weight of my rack was the best I could come up with. They have nothing on their web site except a quick mention of the vehicles limits, your info sort of explains why they don't list on and off road ratings although it's pretty poor on their part not to be explicit about it. Makes me wonder just what sort of testing they've been through.
This video couldn't have come at a better time, I am in the process of planning a new rig build and Rhino was at the top of the list. Not anymore, thanks mate! Sorry you had to go through it all at all - and thanks for informing us all.
Love how the calculator can show the on-road load carrying weights but can't calculate a basic safety factor. Rhino already have all the information required to calculate the offroad load limit. It sounds like they trying to make it very difficult for the customers to correctly see the offroad limits since the value is so low.
Top video Tyler. I’m a police officer and often have reason to chat to driver’s about loads. I agree completely that the distributor should take responsibility to inform the buyer of the differing loads. I doubt it will happen as sales would suffer to some degree as a result. Enjoy your vids and hope to see you on a track one day.
Ten minutes in and I'm impressed with how you're explaining this for people who may be unaware. As an old bushie, I have always been very careful about the weight I put on a roof. Not only is load distribution critical, but you also need to consider the change in centre-of-gravity of your vehicle etc. They're great for adding more storage room (or to mount a tent) but we need to be really careful about how we use them.
I find Rhino's specs deceptive. We are talking about a product that is first and foremost installed on 4WD cars. Why would they specify a lower rating for off-road use and then not show this rating in their advertised specs but refer owners to a formula in the manual?? Rivets are not used for their superior strength or longevity but because they are cheap and quick to install. Thanks for making this video. Rhino is crossed off my list!
Mate this is a bloody great vid. Everyone needs to see this that has a 4wd. I had the rhino door jam mount roof racks, came loose on corrugations up north and f***ed my roof, when taken back to installer was told it not a 4wd roof rack?! My fault for not researching properly but more information needs to be given from installers.
Mate out of all of your videos this is the one that I'll thank you for the most! I'm relatively new to the 4wd scene and have been deliberating for a while now on which roof rack to go with that best suits me. All the research I've done I never found or considered there may be on/off road ratings until seeing this and specifically looking for them! This has helped so much as I'm currently spending a small fortune on the new 4wd and set up and this may have just saved me another small fortune, let alone the more severe consequences this issue could have! Thanks for posting this, legendary content as usual 👍😁
This is really bloody useful mate, thanks! Stoked I got the Front Runner rack - mine is bolted in to the factory captive nuts through the roof which feels really solid.
I brought a fully welded aluminium rack which also bolts through the roof with quality either 8 or 10mm bolts 6 of down each side on my prado... not a big name brand but it ain't going anywhere. After watching this and Ronny Dahl's video I calculated i have about 120 kg on my roof including the 35kg of the rack 2 Awnings 2 swaggs and 4 camping chairs. Rack is tested to 400kg but prado rating is 100kg on roof. Also great content on fire to fork 👌
Yup, I can’t knock my front runner. I did a loop around Australia loaded up with a RV5 tent, couple of jerries, spare tire, awning and chainsaw and never budged. Should have researched this a little more after seeing this video though!
It's not just the fact that they hide behind the fine print, all of their advertising material shows vehicles that are loaded with everything they have to offer, light bar, spare wheel, jerry cans, boxes, awnings and the list goes on, so of course people will think they can throw heaps of gear on them!
@@JimsCS2 yes, its a backbone style, 6 mounting points into roof factory holes, 100 series roof rating believe it or not is 200 kg, I have press release etc. for vehicle, and arb confirm in fitting book, basically can take 150 approx., or 100 kg approx. off road, plenty enough
Great video Tyler, 100% agree that the companies need to take some responsibility for this and make the info clearer and more available. I know my triton has factory threaded mounting points in the rain gutters specifically for roof rack mounting, no drilling the roof and super strong
Great video mate, after seeing your story I looked into it myself as I'm looking at an alloy rack. They are all so different and don't even state the load rating of each individual part of the system a lot of the time. All you see is the ''100kg'' rating everywhere and you have to dig for all the other info. most of them are taking the piss I think
Good on you for going to Front Runner. In my opinion Rhino Rack only tell how little they can carry off road if you ask If they advertised it clearly they’d never sell any roof racks. It’s no accident that the info is hard to find
Here thanks to Ronny Dahl. Can’t wait to see your content and thank you for sharing this we the people need to know these types of things when it comes to off-road accessories. Manufacturers must take responsibility.
A lot of hate towards Rhino Rack. Their text messages weren't great - but that's often what happens when lawyers get involved and may not reflect the owners true feelings. Their calculator and accessibility of it on their website leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion. But we can all learn from this experience. I will personally judge Rhino on the changes they implement as a result of Tyler and Ronnie raising awareness of these issues. Rhino are just humans also - and there is an opportunity for them to respond and become the standard bearer in terms of transparency. If they do that - they keep me as a customer and redeem themselves. If they don't - I would be amazed and will shop elsewhere in future. But let's all give this Aussie owned business a chance to respond. Companies move slower than RUclips content creators - and this issue can be fixed. Tyler: I think you may have saved lives here - and have done the 4WD community a great service. Thank you, Mate - am now subscribed
Load rating is different to the dynamic shear force of a small aluminum pop rivet in thin steel. Load of mass and gravity is different to wind loading and vibration. You are right to offer a warning to consumers. Manufactures and installers need to step up.
Funny rhino rack didn’t come to the party and say you know what, let us have a look at what’s gone wrong and we will replace the whole thing. Considering they are one of the premium roof racks out there. There would have to be a safety margin for weight. Especially if you were only 4 or 5 kg’s over the rating. Surely They will lose afew sales because of this.
By my calculations it was 30 kg overloaded for offroad use, Nissan Australia state maximum weight of 80 kg on road and Rhino on their website, on the paperwork that comes with the kit and on the RUclips videos clearly state that it's up to 100 kg depending in manufacturers roof load rating. Would you refund or replace it if you ran a business and someone overloaded your product by 57% of the advised amount?
By law they have to disclose the weight rating, thats it to bad its in the fine print. No roof is engineered to hold racks/tents but there driven not to say for sales sake.
Very shady by Rhino. Technically they are correct, it not being their fault. However it should be in their best interest to be open and very clear to their customers prior to the sale in terms of load rating (dynamic load rating I assume). This is a safety issue, and should be their primary motivation. That they are not (very) open and clear is in my estimation a good indication of their company culture, and that I at least will choose not to use their products.
Thanks for this video. I was about to get a hard shell roof top tent on my discovery with rhino pioneer platform. Just used the calculator to find I have only a 39kg on-road capacity. Looks like I will only use the rack for pillows, balsa wood and fairy floss.
In the aviation industry we learn from other pilot’s mishaps and seldom criticize them or believe that it could never happen to us. It takes a big man to tell a story about his own mishap so that others can learn from it. Thanks for making us all wiser, and I’m not too happy with the way Rhino did not help you.
Seems to be a good case for high strength adhesive + magnetic fixings as a better way to distribute load across a miserable roof skin than rivets if the vehicle roof mounts are not compatible .
I wanted roof racks for my car (not off road, just a small economy car). When I went to the auto body shop to ask them to install it they refused for exactly the reasons you mentioned. They told me that if I loaded it wrong that it would rip right through the sheet metal. And when they said “loaded it wrong” they didn’t mean weight. They meant wind resistance. If I had some sheet goods up there - that even at less than freeway speeds it could get enough lift to rip out. It was news to me and I eventually gave up on the roof rack idea. I was lucky to learn it the easy way. Thanks so much for putting out this info. It is incredibly important and super hard info to come by. You are doing us all a public service.
Thanks, Tyler -- I saw your 1st video on this while in the process of ordering a roof tent to go on my Rhino backbone+pioneer. That got me really worried and I started digging into available info. Totally agree with your point here that the crucial info is hidden in the fine print and needs to be made much more "in your face" for the ordinary customer. Not only that, but both roof rack resellers, as well as rooftop tent sellers need to have it on their website. My rooftop tent dealer said (after I explained I had to change my order because of this), "... I had never heard of this, but I've passed the info to my tech team in case we come across this again". A final note: platforms will make most rooftop tents unviable, because of the extra 20+ kg. However, for some dual cabs, a person would naturally think of adding a platform, because the cross-bar spacing is not wide enough for the tent (e.g. a James Baroud tent requires spacing of 1.3m). That's the mistake I initially made -- luckily I saw your video first!
I am wondering too what was said by Drifta when Tyler installed the RTT in the first place. As an example from my Surf Life Saving days. Some guys I knew who raced double skis (very long) rocked up at the dealer to pick up 2 new double skis.....in a new car with only a 2 bar roof rack. The ski dealer refused to release the two craft until they sorted out a safe way of transport. Whilst massive kudos to Tyler for what he's said, for me this is one of those situations where everyone needs to shoulder fault - the car, roof rack and RTT manufacturers and the person who bought the stuff. Hard though when nobody really knows.
Great vid mate, just wanted to add a bit of info that most people won't realise. When fitting anything with rivets, there is actually specific drill sizes. For example a 4.0mm rivet uses a #20 drill, which is 4.1mm or 4.8mm uses #11, which is 4.9mm. Most people will use standard drill sizes and this dramatically reduces the load rating of the rivet.
A load rating plate would also have to specify the vehicle and model. Of course second hand roof racks can be put anywhere. Because of the complexity of a load rating plate system, it could be more subject to error. Would it be up to the school kid in their part time job. A proper ratings system would have to involve the government vehicle registration department, quality accredited accessory manufacturers, and vehicle manufacturers. This hits the budget end of the market, but how much are lives worth. The insurance companies can already project how much the vehicle claims would be. I have not made this comment state specific in Australia because this is a worldwide concern.
Had FrontRunner roof racks on 3 of my previous 4x4's and never had any issues. My current FrontRunner rack has been on my FJ for 8 years now on/off road with rooftop tent, water and 3kg propane. Good choice on the FrontRunner rack Tyler!
Good heads up mate, I didnt know there was an off road rating ? I have a Rhino Platform riveted in the channel on a 2016 PX Ranger fitted by 4WD reseller, they didnt say a word about off road either. Cheers you probably saved me a world of hurt Big Thumbs up buddy
Hi Tyler, thank you so much for taking the time broadcasting Rhino-Rack issues/problematic and not reconciled such incident. I was doing researching for best Roof-Rack and Trailer Hitch for my vehicle- Tundra and RDX. Now I must inform my family members staying away from Rhino-Rack company.
I'm surprised there was such a catastrophic failure. Yes, you were over the "limit" but it was only 6% over. You would think Rhino would build in a bit of tolerance. I wouldn't be surprised if you had a similar failure working at 100%
I had the same thing happen to my rhino racks, pulled the rivets straight out of the roof. Very costly to repair, and I have zero confidence in roof racks now
I hope this will help people especially reading many many nonnsense on dynamic loads. Ford xlt 2019 So after a conversation with Ford and various roof racks installer. I came up with a clear idea: No matter what roof rack brand you install, you are only allow to load your roof while driving to your manufacturer specs; in my case 85 kg of total weight, after that weight you start incurring in fracture of the weld in the seams and or loosing your roof rack. "Safety" feature of rhino rack: pop rivets which allow to the roof rack to "come loose" without destroying the entire roof top of your car deforming the crush box. Ford strongly suggested me to use my tub to put my roof top tent, using a sort of shs arrangement, connected to the flat part of the tub, which will give a much higher strength while driving. They totally discouraged the use of any rooftop tent straight on top of a Ford dual cab. Hope this will help other guys.
Good work getting this info out there to the consumers ! I've been all over this dodgy behavior for months Just bought the new ARB base rack for 105 series, much better loadings 👍
Top Job Tyler. You raised some really good safety issues. Most modern 4wd are built down to a price not up to a Quality. I started with an old landrover and built the roof racks anchored to the chassis. At one stage I safely moved over 1000kg on those racks. I built a small crane to lift 500kg loads of steel beams and staircases onto the roof. After installing a P76 V8 engine and 28% Fairy overdrive, disc brakes all round, engineer certified, I towed a 1000kg mobile welding workshop around for about 5 years. I look at the spec on most modern 4wd for towing and roof racks and it seems that most are way overloaded compared to the manufacturer's recommendation. Your video is an excellent reminder to us all. Thank you, Tyler. A good job all around.
Thx for the info mate was looking at getting a rhino rack but after seeing how they treated you I will be avoiding them like the plague NOT very Australian rhino
Today I went to book an order at ARB and I am glad the guy I was speaking to explained me all of this.. That is, static, on road and off road load rating. Looks like you've been heard mate :)
Dude you looked so stressed in the bloopers but still funny 👍 oh and thanks for putting the effort into explaining this for us. Ive never heard of off road load limits before now.
Thanks for putting an honest video together so we can all learn. I was not aware of the offraod rating until watching this video. I am now searching for my cabin load rating for my Dmax.
Thank you @tyler Thompson I just canceled my order from rhino rack and placed an order from front runner for a rack to have installed on my 2021 rugged x
A superb video to put up Tyler. I reckon for sure you've saved lives and injuries in the future because it's always a matter of time till disaster strikes. Look at how many roof racks have failed, and there's probably a heap more we don't know about. I would hate to be in the shoes of that roof rack company. They quickly need to address their installation procedure. It's clearly dangerous.
Last year I put together the following combination. Kia Tellurde, Front Runner Slimline 2 rack, and James Baroud Grand Rail 2. Just trying to understand the ratings was a huge headache. I bought the Gand Rail BEFORE I bought the rack. Don't ever do that. Getting JB to help me pick out a rack was not a fun time they were ZERO help. Then trying to attach the rack to the tent was complicated and almost impossible unless your arms and hands are 10 year old size. Then I decided to go to a "quick release" set up for this year. Counting friends that helped me out we spent 66 man hours trying to get everything to line up before giving up and going back to the first set up kit which is clanky but at least can be done by one person. And trying to work with 2 different manufacturers at the same time is not a pleasant task. I found myself often questioning my decision to go RRT instead of a smaller pull behind camper. Thank you for you video Tyler! It's the first I've found in 2 years that tries to explain everything thoroughly and in layman's terms! Sooner or later, someone will get maimed or worse (if it hasn't already happened) and then maybe the govt will step in and demand these manufacturers take more responsibility in educating customers as well as getting the instructions right and having rack manus work together with the RTT manufacturers in getting products that work together and make the buying experience for customers less stressful!
Agree 100% . Manufacturers should clearly show all load limits in all conditions. They always advertise the maximum load and the fine print is hidden somewhere. Then when things go wrong the consumer gets the blame. Thanks for highlighting the issue
If they made it clear they would never sell the racks. It will take someone getting killed then legislation will be implemented to make roof racks illegal.
Hey there! I'm about to mount a Rhino Rack HD-System onto my Triton and stepped over your perfect worked out video! Thank's a lot for the large amount of information and consideration regarding pivots. I started my research and at first decided to take the Front Runner because of the obvious strangth but chanced my decission to the Rhino Rack because of the variability of the rail-system. After your video I'm thinking about a combination of bothe systems: the rail-system fixed with bolts as it is with the Front Runner mounting kit. Again: Thank you very much for the nice, calm and objective presentation of your research!
I had exactly the same problem and you're right; the system is a bad mounting system. I eventually doubled the number of rivets and used windscreen sikaflex ot glue and clamp the channels down but I never put any real weight up there again - I was just glad the roof wasn't rusting out.
Thanks for sharing with the 4WD family Tyler and keeping others safe on the road - I have a Hilux but only use a Rhino Rack cage mounted to Rola bars that are simply clamped above the doors and works well - I have kept weight under ratings - my roof top tent will go on the new Aluminium canopy that already has an internal frame for load support - it appears that the Rhino Rack company has some work to do given the number of reported issues with riveting systems - I personally don’t want to have holes in the roof where over time rust will find its way as fittings eventually rub through the paint - John in SA
I installed a prorack system onto my 2005 rav4 about 6 months ago. Me being me I'd researched a tonne so kinda knew what I wanted/needed but it still shocked me how easily I walked into my local Repco, asked for the bars & fitting kit, & left with them 5 mins later. Don't get me wrong; that's how I like to shop & the staffer sure appreciated it (her words verbatim: "God I wish every customer was like you..."), but still I was thinking that surely there is more to this? I can trust in my own skills & common sense to choose & install the right system & research loads/do's & don'ts etc (& a fair chunk of prior experience), but so many vehicles these days seem to be donning the racks/platforms/cages/awnings etc & it has me seriously concerned. I was driving back to Perth from Coral bay (WA) earlier this year at the start of the school holidays so the amount of traffic heading north was insane, but more frightening still was how many of the vehicles (~75%) had seemingly immensely overloaded roofracks. Definitely agree that the sort of info you're talking about needs to be more front & centre so people are being made aware of it if they haven't already thought about it. On another note; im not surprised roofracks mounted with pop rivets are failing... I'm shocked that's how any of them are installed. I gathered that the majority were installed between the rails (for vehicles with factory rails) or the fixed mount positions in the gutters (rain channels)
I noted the conversation between you and Ronny Dahl! This is very similar to everyone driving around with a 3T caravan because the car companies state you can tow up to 3.5T! People gotta start researching before they purchase! A Specification/Load Plate needs to be put on these racks so people can see them easier! Great vid mate!
100% agree with the warning you're trying to get across. I know from personal experience that 4wd accessory sales staff themselves are not properly educated on exactly what is the safe working load. I've had the Front Runner and RR Backbone system on different vehicles and can safely say the Front Runner is the stronger unit. Enjoy the vids and adventures Tyler, keep 'em coming :)
Superb vid mate. Thanks so much. Just bought a Yakima Lock N Load setup fro my 2019 Raptor. Has made me check and double check the off road load limits for my setup. cheers and all the best
Pretty intersting, I never really put much thought into it when I put on my backbone and rhino platform on my colorado. And I only ever have a swag or two on it. But when calculated, I have a off road cargo load of 25kg, meaning I can basically carry one double swag or two singles. At least I know I'm within the limits so if something happens they don't have a leg to stand on....
But it can still come flying off and potentially injure someone or worse. Knowing that It needs bolting down through the thicker steel of the roof. It's a bad situation this company has put people in.
Great video mate! I researched racks a few years back and went with Front Runner on my NP300 because I needed something solid since I was doing the Simpson and it’s tough going. In my research I came across many stories of riveted racks coming off. It’s great that you are creating a positive awareness. Cheers Nathan
If dedicated off-roaders aren’t aware of the off-road rating I’d suggest the general public would have no idea. This would make a pretty strong legal argument against rhino rack for “hiding” this rating.
Before coming across your channel, I saw your comment under Ronny Dahl’s video about his Rhino rack. Thanks for the educational info brutha. I just liked and subbed
On the Nissan site it says 80kg for that system you were running once fitted. If you divide that by 1.5 you get 53 kg offroad. Now from some ultra quick maths I get 53 kg for tent with no bedding, 20 kg for the platform and 10 kg for the awning. Given that there was nothing else up there, that puts you 3 kg over on road and 30 kg offroad. Now I don't agree with these companies that say 100 kg as that's their system and if they are selling it for a specific vehicle they need to include the specific weight for the model for which they are selling the product.
So as far as im aware the original load limit of my car is 100kg, Nissan has informed me this. Maybe that figure they already roughly misused the weight of the rack? Ive actually since found the Rhino's fitting instructions say something different again on road = vehicle load limit - rack weight 100-23 = 77 off road = on road divided by 1.5 77 divided by 1.5 = 51.3 thus the weight rating of mine was 51.3 So still puts me back to only being a few kgs over. I have only a sheet in the RTT, so maybe a few hundred grams? Regardless of the exact ratings would you agree that pop rivets is a sub par/dangerous method of mounting these? And as you have said, they definitely need to make all this information more clear. Besides the exact specifics hopefully this video got some people thinking and educated
If anyone decides to go rivet style mounting, at least consider using riv-nuts through the sheet metal as well as a fender washer. The washer will definitely help your roof. But definitely consider going for a better built system. It’s one less thing to have anxiety about.
Oh mate that was excellent 😂 I'm glad I stayed for the bumbles at the end 👌👌😁 great info and without sinking the boot on a product you did a epic job of informing.... With a sweet ninja like undertone of 'read between the lines' 😁👌 It stinks that we have to be research masters and near on product engineers when purchasing this stuff. It's not good enough in my opinion but thankfully we have Frontrunner! They make a great product and awesome accessories too, just have to be careful which you are can get up there without going over the kgs... 🤦🏼♂️😄 Great vid👍👍
had been really interested in this story. a bit poor form from rhino, no empathy at all. Id really love to hear about the coming feedback you get from companies after they see this. even a small update video or a story in your insta
We have a clamb shell tent on our crewcab on the Rhino rack and we did the Gibb River Road both ways after driving up from Perth. It held up to one of the roughest roads in Australia.
I feel like the off road rating is a critical bit of information that should be advertised clearly with the product. Its not reasonable to expect someone who doesn't work in the industry to know that there is 2 different ratings for a roof rack. The reasonable thing would be to advertise the lowest rating. Poor form #rhinorack @rhino-rack. I actually regret getting a rhino platform, they're not the best quality for the cost.
Thanks for the heads up. I bought Rhino Heavy Duty roof bars, the ones that clip in the top of the door jam thinking they would be better than riveting in a thin roof. I have now checked the load rating and they are only 75kg but divide by 2 for off road..so only 37.5 kg each 😯 granted for each.... But I'm glad I now know 👍
In all seriousness, we have an ARB alloy roof rack on our Prado, it has an awning and mounts for a high lift, if the jacks being carried I can put another 25kg up there, we use it (probably over weight), but I'm not sure it was worth the cost. I don't think I'd do it again.
@@Taylorrrose They have bars you can tie things down on, but I don't think they're super strong, probably not fair to call them decorative but may not be too far from the truth. When our roof rack was fitted they took the original bars off and replaced them with dedicated mounts.
Thanks Tyler. I was aware of load ratings but what shocked me was how flimsy the attachment is for the rhino back system. I have the platform mounted to roof rails though it's not carrying much weight. I've been over some pretty heavy corrugations and it hasn't shifted but your video is a timely warning to keep checking it at regular intervals and to be mindful of how much weight it will carry in different situations. I'm just going to check mine again now. :)
Oldest trick in the book of most companies: advertise positives, hide negatives! Also don't forget to make finding those negatives a pain in the ... brain!
Greetings from Canada 🇨🇦 Thank you for your information on this topic and as a retired Canadian long haul trucker, checking load security is number 1 , I am actually going to ramp my pre & post trips even with out a load on my rack. Cheers 🍻
To me its almost false advertisement or misinformed. They should really sell as offroad rating... rack that goes catastrophe damage with slight above weight isnt really good product. I dont blame ya for not knowing, its something that manufactures should be telling owners if they are targeting off-road vehicles
They all do it. Auto Makers are classics for it. Look at the bold print for towing - 3500kg; look at the fine print and again, after the calcs, it is massively lower!
IMPORTANT RHINO CALCULATION ERROR
After further investigation I have found the calculation for a rhino platform is:
on road = Vehicle load limit - rack weight
100 - 23 = 77kg
off road = on road divided by 1.5
77 divided by 1.5
51.3kg was the off road rating for my rhino platform
I only had two bedding sheets in my RTT which is 51kg, plus the awning. Meaning I was around 60kg and nearly 10kg over my weight limit
Its in small print, in the corner, within the fitting instructions 👍 unsure as to why the website says 100 divided by 1.5 - the weight of your rack (which I calculated wrong anyway in the video, that's why rhino need to calculate it for you, for idiots like me 😂)
TT. This information concerning the roof rack loadings has been around decades ! The origins of ARB Corporation can also clearly trace the experiences of those Ok boomers heading to the Australian Cape with failed accessories back in the 70's ? My Rangie even makes references in the owners booklet to towing on & off-road. It's a typical learning experience which we all discover in due time and hopefully your rig is performing better and legal. V
@@vincentpoole7588 pffffffft. Typical learning experience ha ha ha. How patronising.
There were no recommended roof rack off-road limits in the 60’s and 70’s. Yes we discovered by trial and error but in my opinion, Rhino make the information difficult to find for a reason.
But still, I’d be dubious of anything with that little of margin for failure, its a cheap out on engineering. That thing must still be on the edge even at its rated limit. I cant see much longevity on that.
@@jimlstheworldyewww7516 JLS. Even someone like Ronny Dahl's YT Channel is already exceeding the design parameter ! Horses for courses with a never ending chorus of content providers doing the wrong or illegal upload of content which is highlighting the lack of experience or as TT has stated "unqualified" opinions ? Laws of physics can't be broken, but it can be awfully bent or given a nudge. V
I still do not think the limits are the problem here... I did not use rivets to fit my ARB compressor or my VHF Radio, why the hell would anyone think it is a good idea to use rivets on a load bearing structure like a roof rack.
This alone makes this product terrible!
I really like the integrity of Tyler. He uses words like “I was in the wrong” “I take responsibility” etc. Thank you for being a man and for overlooking your fault and sharing with us OVERLANDERS your mistakes for us to learn. Good job, mate!
ALL video makers do.. it's the honourable thing to do when in the 'wrong'.
Wow, this video just sealed the deal for me deciding between the FrontRunner or Rhino Backbone system! Great video mate.
Yes it is very confusing. I’d bet 95% of people wouldn’t know this. Great video, thanks for sharing 👍
And 95% of us watching this would think twice about Rhino.
@@karl4834 100 % I would hope.
the question is how many people will lower the load of their roof racks because they´ve invested lot of money to it plus all the gear which is on it.
Good on ya mate
They are selling a product that is not fit for purpose and hiding behind the fine print
I’d expect that from a cheap rack but nothing they do is cheap, well to purchase anyway
Yes correct spot on comment
Perfectly summed up mate. Companies will always show the best looking figures to sell their products.
Agree 100% mate - they’re made to a price ( cheaply in China ) but it’s not the price they’re charging for the shit !
They sell it as a premium brand with all the pop up ads on here and in all the in ya face camping / caravan mags yet they don’t stand behind their product when the cheap crap fails ! 😡😡😡
Nothing pee’s me off more !!!!
@@4WheelingInNSW Yep, just like most things that are manufactured outside of Australia, it’s built DOWN to a price, not UP to a standard. I prefer to spend a bit more on purchases I regard as necessary & worthwhile, things you hope to get more use out of, there’s still some Aussie manufacturers who pride themselves on quality workmanship.
Agree. Department of fair trading would also agree. You were sold the item under false pretence by the retailer, you are entirely able to ask for a refund.
I had a Rhino platform on my last cruiser, and it was junk. I had an eye bolt rip out of the thing on the freeway and my kayak flew off! Lucky not to kill someone.
Further, those weight limits should be EXTREMELY conservative, to meet the standards for importation of vehicle accessories. If you ask me you've been stitched up.
Aluminium pop-rivets, the weakest, softest rivet available, pressed through the thin steel of a roof to hold on a roof rack? I'm not even slightly surprised that it came off. If that's Rhino Rack's recommended mounting method, then I am even more surprised. Do they not expect people to load the rack at all?
Reading the comments I was thinking what will be ur opinion
They don’t, it’s an accessory to make your car look mad as! They even give you a bag of designer mud
This was my immediate thought. Aluminium pop rivets to hold your roof rack on. WTF! Not exactly the strongest attachment method.
@ML Off Road Those stated strengths are based on the rivet, and discount the material into which they are fastened. It isn't the rivets that broke here. It's the thin steel roof that bent and allowing the rivets to pull through. Stainless rivets are far stronger than alu. But the thin steel roof is the problem, so also, not a good idea. I once did a test comparing a pop rivet with an AN rivet - solid compressed aircraft rivet that has two flat sides and a shaft. I'm no scientists but it was probably five times stronger than pop rivets, which are rarely found in aircraft because they are not strong enough. Because they must fasten together thin material. They are not designed to do that well.
Yep after speaking with many professionals in the field rivets can be an excellent choice when used with the correct material and preferably stronger rivets, eg structural stainless steel rivets on aircrafts where the material the rivet is being used on is very thick. But a small rivet into steel less then 1mm thick with very little spread of the surface load is not the correct material to use a rivet on for the forces a roof rack creates off-road. As you can see, the rivets ripped straight back out. Ronny just pulled his rhino rack off today and confirmed the supplied rivets were aluminium.
Rhino has definitely paid themselves a disservice by deliberately not informing their customers of the “off-road limit” carrying capacity of their roof racks. They have lost me as a potential customer for sure and undoubtedly many others too. It’s typical of many businesses today.
Thanks for sharing this most important information to your viewers. I admire your honesty in expressing your acceptance (to some degree) that in part, you were in the wrong by a mere...3-4kgs overweight.
Rhino may have saved a themselves a “few cents” in not admitting/accepting some of the blame/responsibility but eventually they will lose many $$$$$$$ in lost sales through their unwillingness to “stand by you” just because you were a....few kgs overweight.
I will share this information to many.
Thanks for all of your great videos mate, you’re a very honest and humble bloke and a great ambassador to how a real man conducts himself. You’re a...champ!! 😊👍👍
“PSssst”....love the inclusion of your bloopers. It really...”tops it off”. (Pun intended) 😂😂
Honorable on your part to take responsibility even though it was an honest oversight... and a pretty poor and legalistic response from Rhino. They certainly did not take the opportunity to delight the customer, let alone be sensitive to your predicament... 🤨. In my opinion those load rating formulas should be clearly presented on the product itself (eg as stickers). Informative vid - thanks.
Yeah mate, this is an absolute outrage. That company is for themselves.
Agree honourable to take responsibility and agree Rhino could have and should have done better but this whole story re-enforces that advice should be received and asked of experts and without wanting to be disrespectful not from you tube influencers. I like Tyler’s trip videos especially the early ones but don’t like the product placement endorsements by all influencers. We have all seen so many you tubers promote one product only to tune in 12 months later to see this product is now the best. As Tyler said do your own research talk to experts and hold them accountable when they don’t do the right thing .....frustrated rant now over enjoy the bush everyone
Presented on the product? So after you buy it you find out what the load rating is?
@@GriftCo I didn’t suggest that in isolation. There are many points in the retail sales process that should involve having the information made readily available and easy to understand. I also totally agree with Tyler’s comments regarding the responsibility of distributors / sales to inform the customer prior to purchase. He also talked about the potential safety risk if the rack came off at speed near other motorists. The stickers would provide a final safeguard at point of installation. Something more permanent on the rack would also provide a safeguard at the point of loading the rack, particularly in the case of a change of ownership of the vehicle or rack. Just an idea 💡
Good on Tyler for coming through with this video. He got the finger from rhino and tuff luck sunshine.
When Ronny Dahls rhino rack falls off you watch rhino bend over backwards to help and give him full replacement,free.
Ronny Dahl just made a video about this as well and he is not happy. I would imagine people at rhino rack are sweating bullets right about now.
The fall out of this has sent shockwaves through the industry, and rightly so.
I sure am I recently got a Rhino...bugger....
Who’s here after watching Ronny’s video? 🙁
Nope.
Auto Expert John Cadogan
ruclips.net/video/V9w7xczHN6k/видео.html
Who
@@eliasbautista2687 Ronny Dahl
Yep lol
Me
Its rhino's response that will stop me from buying from them for my fleet of cars now.
The problem is not just a rhino one as several mount in a similar way.
But the response IS a rhino problem.
Yep totally agree if a company can’t stand by its own product I steer clear of them and definitely will now if you continue to knowingly push a product that isn’t save on certain vehicles then they should make the community aware and stop marketing towards certain vehicles that rely solely on pop rivets as a means of fastening these roof racks
Rhinos calculator didn’t even give you a rating and refer you to the install instructions, what sort of answer is that? Bordering on deceptive.
They dont want people to know they can only carry 50kg because they wouldnt buy them! Great video, I never knew this.
This is true .
they put information in the internet, but not with the product packaging cover, now you know why.
I was going to get some went to tjm he said dont bitjer 75kg on road off road 35. So off road it would juat be a accessory lol
The on and off road ratings should be stamped into the metal of the rack on both sides in large white lettering so that it is always visible to anyone loading it. Rhino are claiming 100kg so they can sell product with no regard to safety. This is the same BS with vehicle manufactures claiming their ute can tow 3500kg.
That would be great!
@@TylerThompson90 Also it seems as though Rhino need to learn the difference between a design load rating and a breaking limit. Clearly there is no safety factor applied to their ratings for this failure to occur so close to the 'load rating' of the rack.
They can’t do that as the same rack could be used on multiple vehicles from a small SUV to a large American UTE that have differing roof limits. Steve
@@emu4wdadventures631 in that case you must use the lower limit, which is the vehicles roof loading limit.
@@emu4wdadventures631 clearly in 5his case it is not vehicle or rack load that determine the limit but the pop rivets that determine the limit. Only the l8mit imposed by the fitment method determines the limit. As noted in other comments the failure occurs under loading that is effectively within the loading allowed limit as calculated by the formula. So no safety margin. Given the stated difference between road and off road rating the Rhin9 Rack has NO LOAD as limit because clearly even a low speed crash and that rack will flyoff ev3n based on its own mass. IT 8S NOT PASSING ANY CRASH SAFETY TESTS.
ARB responded (thanks Jeremy), so I've correct these numbers, which are much better than I thought.
I did these calcs for my 2018 Holden Colorado dual cab:
Manufacturer roof rating: 75kg.
ARB cab rack (bolted into roof): 30kg.
Payload 75-30=45kg
*There is no de-rating for ARB cab racks for off-road use.*
Static load is limited by Holden specs and remains 75kg total, or 45kg including the cab rack.
ARB Ascent canopy with internal supports: 100kg rating.
Titan platform: 15kg (rated for 300kg)
Payload 100-15=85kg.
*There is no de-rating for ARB Ascent canopies for off-road use.*
ARB Static limit for canopy is 350kg, less platform of 15kg, leaves 335kg for static load, so the 300kg rating of the Titan platform becomes the limit.
I've always been very conservative with what I put up top. Now I have an understanding of why. Thanks, Tyler, you're a champ. At least ARB have only one dynamic rating and one static rating. Sorry you had to lose your roof rack for the rest of us to get this information.
I have a rack bag on the cab rack for bedding and clothing, and on the platform I have pv panels and a shovel, so nothing heavy on either.
Edited with the new ARB figures supplied by email.
Thanks mate, I've spent the last hour trying to find info on ARB roof racks without much luck, a 30kg 'guestimate' on the weight of my rack was the best I could come up with. They have nothing on their web site except a quick mention of the vehicles limits, your info sort of explains why they don't list on and off road ratings although it's pretty poor on their part not to be explicit about it. Makes me wonder just what sort of testing they've been through.
This video couldn't have come at a better time, I am in the process of planning a new rig build and Rhino was at the top of the list. Not anymore, thanks mate! Sorry you had to go through it all at all - and thanks for informing us all.
Love how the calculator can show the on-road load carrying weights but can't calculate a basic safety factor. Rhino already have all the information required to calculate the offroad load limit. It sounds like they trying to make it very difficult for the customers to correctly see the offroad limits since the value is so low.
Top video Tyler. I’m a police officer and often have reason to chat to driver’s about loads. I agree completely that the distributor should take responsibility to inform the buyer of the differing loads. I doubt it will happen as sales would suffer to some degree as a result. Enjoy your vids and hope to see you on a track one day.
Ten minutes in and I'm impressed with how you're explaining this for people who may be unaware.
As an old bushie, I have always been very careful about the weight I put on a roof. Not only is load distribution critical, but you also need to consider the change in centre-of-gravity of your vehicle etc. They're great for adding more storage room (or to mount a tent) but we need to be really careful about how we use them.
I find Rhino's specs deceptive. We are talking about a product that is first and foremost installed on 4WD cars. Why would they specify a lower rating for off-road use and then not show this rating in their advertised specs but refer owners to a formula in the manual?? Rivets are not used for their superior strength or longevity but because they are cheap and quick to install.
Thanks for making this video. Rhino is crossed off my list!
Mate this is a bloody great vid. Everyone needs to see this that has a 4wd. I had the rhino door jam mount roof racks, came loose on corrugations up north and f***ed my roof, when taken back to installer was told it not a 4wd roof rack?! My fault for not researching properly but more information needs to be given from installers.
Mate out of all of your videos this is the one that I'll thank you for the most! I'm relatively new to the 4wd scene and have been deliberating for a while now on which roof rack to go with that best suits me. All the research I've done I never found or considered there may be on/off road ratings until seeing this and specifically looking for them!
This has helped so much as I'm currently spending a small fortune on the new 4wd and set up and this may have just saved me another small fortune, let alone the more severe consequences this issue could have!
Thanks for posting this, legendary content as usual 👍😁
If thats how Rhino treats their customers, I'll gladly stay away from anything with their name on it. Great video full of useful information.
This is really bloody useful mate, thanks! Stoked I got the Front Runner rack - mine is bolted in to the factory captive nuts through the roof which feels really solid.
Do they make a similar system for the 2021 Hilux? Just asking for a mate.
I brought a fully welded aluminium rack which also bolts through the roof with quality either 8 or 10mm bolts 6 of down each side on my prado... not a big name brand but it ain't going anywhere. After watching this and Ronny Dahl's video I calculated i have about 120 kg on my roof including the 35kg of the rack 2 Awnings 2 swaggs and 4 camping chairs.
Rack is tested to 400kg but prado rating is 100kg on roof.
Also great content on fire to fork 👌
I hope it didn't start with the letter o .
Yup, I can’t knock my front runner. I did a loop around Australia loaded up with a RV5 tent, couple of jerries, spare tire, awning and chainsaw and never budged. Should have researched this a little more after seeing this video though!
It's not just the fact that they hide behind the fine print, all of their advertising material shows vehicles that are loaded with everything they have to offer, light bar, spare wheel, jerry cans, boxes, awnings and the list goes on, so of course people will think they can throw heaps of gear on them!
Its completely viable to load one of thier racks exactly as depicted! (For taking pictures) 😂👍
I was going to be getting Rhino racks very shortly ...... wont be now
check out ARB Base rack, fully welded
@@outlandyishrig2557 Did you look into the mounting system for the base rack?
@@JimsCS2 yes, its a backbone style, 6 mounting points into roof factory holes, 100 series roof rating believe it or not is 200 kg, I have press release etc. for vehicle, and arb confirm in fitting book, basically can take 150 approx., or 100 kg approx. off road, plenty enough
I was going to buy from Rhino as well...not now though!! 👎👎
Great video Tyler, 100% agree that the companies need to take some responsibility for this and make the info clearer and more available. I know my triton has factory threaded mounting points in the rain gutters specifically for roof rack mounting, no drilling the roof and super strong
Great video mate, after seeing your story I looked into it myself as I'm looking at an alloy rack. They are all so different and don't even state the load rating of each individual part of the system a lot of the time. All you see is the ''100kg'' rating everywhere and you have to dig for all the other info. most of them are taking the piss I think
Good on you for going to Front Runner.
In my opinion Rhino Rack only tell how little they can carry off road if you ask
If they advertised it clearly they’d never sell any roof racks.
It’s no accident that the info is hard to find
Moral of the story - old school 4wd with gutter mount!
I’m looking at roof racks for my NP300 & after watching your video I won’t be looking at Rhino Racks, Your new roof rack looks good.
There must be plenty of overloaded Suzuki Jimnys out there then as the manufacturers roof limit is only 30kg
Rhino are regreting not coming to the party i imagine.
Here thanks to Ronny Dahl. Can’t wait to see your content and thank you for sharing this we the people need to know these types of things when it comes to off-road accessories. Manufacturers must take responsibility.
Me too. Subscribed as you are so easy to listen to
A lot of hate towards Rhino Rack. Their text messages weren't great - but that's often what happens when lawyers get involved and may not reflect the owners true feelings. Their calculator and accessibility of it on their website leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion. But we can all learn from this experience. I will personally judge Rhino on the changes they implement as a result of Tyler and Ronnie raising awareness of these issues. Rhino are just humans also - and there is an opportunity for them to respond and become the standard bearer in terms of transparency. If they do that - they keep me as a customer and redeem themselves. If they don't - I would be amazed and will shop elsewhere in future. But let's all give this Aussie owned business a chance to respond. Companies move slower than RUclips content creators - and this issue can be fixed. Tyler: I think you may have saved lives here - and have done the 4WD community a great service. Thank you, Mate - am now subscribed
Load rating is different to the dynamic shear force of a small aluminum pop rivet in thin steel. Load of mass and gravity is different to wind loading and vibration. You are right to offer a warning to consumers. Manufactures and installers need to step up.
Thanks very good point
Funny rhino rack didn’t come to the party and say you know what, let us have a look at what’s gone wrong and we will replace the whole thing. Considering they are one of the premium roof racks out there.
There would have to be a safety margin for weight. Especially if you were only 4 or 5 kg’s over the rating.
Surely They will lose afew sales because of this.
Unfortunately not every buyer will see this video. It's disaster waiting to happen hey!!
By my calculations it was 30 kg overloaded for offroad use, Nissan Australia state maximum weight of 80 kg on road and Rhino on their website, on the paperwork that comes with the kit and on the RUclips videos clearly state that it's up to 100 kg depending in manufacturers roof load rating.
Would you refund or replace it if you ran a business and someone overloaded your product by 57% of the advised amount?
By law they have to disclose the weight rating, thats it to bad its in the fine print. No roof is engineered to hold racks/tents but there driven not to say for sales sake.
I was booked in to have rhino roof rails and cross bars fitted to my np300 in 2 weeks. I will cancel tomorrow morning.
Very shady by Rhino. Technically they are correct, it not being their fault. However it should be in their best interest to be open and very clear to their customers prior to the sale in terms of load rating (dynamic load rating I assume). This is a safety issue, and should be their primary motivation. That they are not (very) open and clear is in my estimation a good indication of their company culture, and that I at least will choose not to use their products.
Thanks for this video. I was about to get a hard shell roof top tent on my discovery with rhino pioneer platform. Just used the calculator to find I have only a 39kg on-road capacity. Looks like I will only use the rack for pillows, balsa wood and fairy floss.
😂😂
In the aviation industry we learn from other pilot’s mishaps and seldom criticize them or believe that it could never happen to us. It takes a big man to tell a story about his own mishap so that others can learn from it. Thanks for making us all wiser, and I’m not too happy with the way Rhino did not help you.
Was going to buy the backbone platform definitely turned off now
I think the issue is modern 4WD suck, bring back proper gutters and solid front ends.
buy a 70 series
Yeah and bring back the biff in Origin!
Agreed
QUEENSLANDER!!
Seems to be a good case for high strength adhesive + magnetic fixings as a better way to distribute load across a miserable roof skin than rivets if the vehicle roof mounts are not compatible .
Gutters are crap
I wanted roof racks for my car (not off road, just a small economy car). When I went to the auto body shop to ask them to install it they refused for exactly the reasons you mentioned. They told me that if I loaded it wrong that it would rip right through the sheet metal. And when they said “loaded it wrong” they didn’t mean weight. They meant wind resistance. If I had some sheet goods up there - that even at less than freeway speeds it could get enough lift to rip out.
It was news to me and I eventually gave up on the roof rack idea. I was lucky to learn it the easy way. Thanks so much for putting out this info. It is incredibly important and super hard info to come by. You are doing us all a public service.
Thanks, Tyler -- I saw your 1st video on this while in the process of ordering a roof tent to go on my Rhino backbone+pioneer. That got me really worried and I started digging into available info. Totally agree with your point here that the crucial info is hidden in the fine print and needs to be made much more "in your face" for the ordinary customer. Not only that, but both roof rack resellers, as well as rooftop tent sellers need to have it on their website. My rooftop tent dealer said (after I explained I had to change my order because of this), "... I had never heard of this, but I've passed the info to my tech team in case we come across this again". A final note: platforms will make most rooftop tents unviable, because of the extra 20+ kg. However, for some dual cabs, a person would naturally think of adding a platform, because the cross-bar spacing is not wide enough for the tent (e.g. a James Baroud tent requires spacing of 1.3m). That's the mistake I initially made -- luckily I saw your video first!
I am wondering too what was said by Drifta when Tyler installed the RTT in the first place.
As an example from my Surf Life Saving days. Some guys I knew who raced double skis (very long) rocked up at the dealer to pick up 2 new double skis.....in a new car with only a 2 bar roof rack. The ski dealer refused to release the two craft until they sorted out a safe way of transport.
Whilst massive kudos to Tyler for what he's said, for me this is one of those situations where everyone needs to shoulder fault - the car, roof rack and RTT manufacturers and the person who bought the stuff. Hard though when nobody really knows.
Great vid mate, just wanted to add a bit of info that most people won't realise. When fitting anything with rivets, there is actually specific drill sizes. For example a 4.0mm rivet uses a #20 drill, which is 4.1mm or 4.8mm uses #11, which is 4.9mm. Most people will use standard drill sizes and this dramatically reduces the load rating of the rivet.
I recon the roof racks should be plated just like a tow bar is
A load rating plate would also have to specify the vehicle and model. Of course second hand roof racks can be put anywhere. Because of the complexity of a load rating plate system, it could be more subject to error. Would it be up to the school kid in their part time job. A proper ratings system would have to involve the government vehicle registration department, quality accredited accessory manufacturers, and vehicle manufacturers. This hits the budget end of the market, but how much are lives worth. The insurance companies can already project how much the vehicle claims would be. I have not made this comment state specific in Australia because this is a worldwide concern.
Had FrontRunner roof racks on 3 of my previous 4x4's and never had any issues. My current FrontRunner rack has been on my FJ for 8 years now on/off road with rooftop tent, water and 3kg propane. Good choice on the FrontRunner rack Tyler!
Good heads up mate, I didnt know there was an off road rating ? I have a Rhino Platform riveted in the channel on a 2016 PX Ranger fitted by 4WD reseller, they didnt say a word about off road either. Cheers you probably saved me a world of hurt Big Thumbs up buddy
Hi Tyler, thank you so much for taking the time broadcasting Rhino-Rack issues/problematic and not reconciled such incident.
I was doing researching for best Roof-Rack and Trailer Hitch for my vehicle- Tundra and RDX. Now I must inform my family members staying away from Rhino-Rack company.
I'm surprised there was such a catastrophic failure. Yes, you were over the "limit" but it was only 6% over. You would think Rhino would build in a bit of tolerance. I wouldn't be surprised if you had a similar failure working at 100%
Came here after watching Ronnie Dahl's video on how he stuffed up. Subscribed now!
I had the same thing happen to my rhino racks, pulled the rivets straight out of the roof. Very costly to repair, and I have zero confidence in roof racks now
I hope this will help people especially reading many many nonnsense on dynamic loads.
Ford xlt 2019
So after a conversation with Ford and various roof racks installer. I came up with a clear idea:
No matter what roof rack brand you install, you are only allow to load your roof while driving to your manufacturer specs; in my case 85 kg of total weight, after that weight you start incurring in fracture of the weld in the seams and or loosing your roof rack.
"Safety" feature of rhino rack: pop rivets which allow to the roof rack to "come loose" without destroying the entire roof top of your car deforming the crush box.
Ford strongly suggested me to use my tub to put my roof top tent, using a sort of shs arrangement, connected to the flat part of the tub, which will give a much higher strength while driving. They totally discouraged the use of any rooftop tent straight on top of a Ford dual cab.
Hope this will help other guys.
Good work getting this info out there to the consumers !
I've been all over this dodgy behavior for months
Just bought the new ARB base rack for 105 series, much better loadings 👍
Top Job Tyler. You raised some really good safety issues. Most modern 4wd are built down to a price not up to a Quality. I started with an old landrover and built the roof racks anchored to the chassis. At one stage I safely moved over 1000kg on those racks. I built a small crane to lift 500kg loads of steel beams and staircases onto the roof. After installing a P76 V8 engine and 28% Fairy overdrive, disc brakes all round, engineer certified, I towed a 1000kg mobile welding workshop around for about 5 years. I look at the spec on most modern 4wd for towing and roof racks and it seems that most are way overloaded compared to the manufacturer's recommendation. Your video is an excellent reminder to us all. Thank you, Tyler. A good job all around.
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed it!
Thx for the info mate was looking at getting a rhino rack but after seeing how they treated you I will be avoiding them like the plague NOT very Australian rhino
Today I went to book an order at ARB and I am glad the guy I was speaking to explained me all of this.. That is, static, on road and off road load rating. Looks like you've been heard mate :)
Dude you looked so stressed in the bloopers but still funny 👍 oh and thanks for putting the effort into explaining this for us. Ive never heard of off road load limits before now.
Thanks for putting an honest video together so we can all learn. I was not aware of the offraod rating until watching this video. I am now searching for my cabin load rating for my Dmax.
Did I I hear correctly? Perhaps a small miscalculation 66kg - 23kg = 43kg ...not 53? But awesome video nonetheless!
Yep I think you're right mate! Good pick up, I'll pin this comment for others to see. Means the load rating is even less 😅
@@TylerThompson90 Ooof, 70kg RTT plus awning on my Platform...
Good call on pinning this. Lol. Was just about to comment
@@ShoeysAdventures This is why my roof rack weighs 65kg it can take 300kg but then again my roof can only take 150kg 😅😅😅
@@4x4CampingandAdventures so now you are limited to 85kg, better than my 65 ffs
Thank you @tyler Thompson I just canceled my order from rhino rack and placed an order from front runner for a rack to have installed on my 2021 rugged x
A superb video to put up Tyler. I reckon for sure you've saved lives and injuries in the future because it's always a matter of time till disaster strikes. Look at how many roof racks have failed, and there's probably a heap more we don't know about. I would hate to be in the shoes of that roof rack company. They quickly need to address their installation procedure. It's clearly dangerous.
Last year I put together the following combination. Kia Tellurde, Front Runner Slimline 2 rack, and James Baroud Grand Rail 2. Just trying to understand the ratings was a huge headache. I bought the Gand Rail BEFORE I bought the rack. Don't ever do that. Getting JB to help me pick out a rack was not a fun time they were ZERO help. Then trying to attach the rack to the tent was complicated and almost impossible unless your arms and hands are 10 year old size. Then I decided to go to a "quick release" set up for this year. Counting friends that helped me out we spent 66 man hours trying to get everything to line up before giving up and going back to the first set up kit which is clanky but at least can be done by one person. And trying to work with 2 different manufacturers at the same time is not a pleasant task. I found myself often questioning my decision to go RRT instead of a smaller pull behind camper. Thank you for you video Tyler! It's the first I've found in 2 years that tries to explain everything thoroughly and in layman's terms! Sooner or later, someone will get maimed or worse (if it hasn't already happened) and then maybe the govt will step in and demand these manufacturers take more responsibility in educating customers as well as getting the instructions right and having rack manus work together with the RTT manufacturers in getting products that work together and make the buying experience for customers less stressful!
So in essence you cannot really use these racks offroad. That rhino installation is rubbish. Pop rivets to a body panel ???
Agree 100% . Manufacturers should clearly show all load limits in all conditions. They always advertise the maximum load and the fine print is hidden somewhere. Then when things go wrong the consumer gets the blame. Thanks for highlighting the issue
If they made it clear they would never sell the racks. It will take someone getting killed then legislation will be implemented to make roof racks illegal.
Hey there!
I'm about to mount a Rhino Rack HD-System onto my Triton and stepped over your perfect worked out video!
Thank's a lot for the large amount of information and consideration regarding pivots.
I started my research and at first decided to take the Front Runner because of the obvious strangth but chanced my decission to the Rhino Rack because of the variability of the rail-system.
After your video I'm thinking about a combination of bothe systems: the rail-system fixed with bolts as it is with the Front Runner mounting kit.
Again: Thank you very much for the nice, calm and objective presentation of your research!
Just wonder who discovered Tyler through Ronnys video?
Ryan Tilley yep.
@@anthonymorris479 ahhh cool, the algorithms brought me here a few months ago, I'm just hopeful he gets a little boost from this.👍
Thanks for posting this Tyler, very good info for those thinking of getting a platform rack
Frontrunner is the best and they have a shit load of accesories. There mountings are the strongest and no bullshit about overloaded crap.
I had exactly the same problem and you're right; the system is a bad mounting system. I eventually doubled the number of rivets and used windscreen sikaflex ot glue and clamp the channels down but I never put any real weight up there again - I was just glad the roof wasn't rusting out.
Your New set-up seems a much better solution
Coming here after Ronny's video :-) you are life saver mate
A new video for you mate, “the day Ronny Dahl nearly apologised to me”
Lol
😂
Thanks for sharing with the 4WD family Tyler and keeping others safe on the road - I have a Hilux but only use a Rhino Rack cage mounted to Rola bars that are simply clamped above the doors and works well - I have kept weight under ratings - my roof top tent will go on the new Aluminium canopy that already has an internal frame for load support - it appears that the Rhino Rack company has some work to do given the number of reported issues with riveting systems - I personally don’t want to have holes in the roof where over time rust will find its way as fittings eventually rub through the paint - John in SA
Well I’ll never buy a rhino ! That’s for sure
Why?
just don't buy a roof rack period
I installed a prorack system onto my 2005 rav4 about 6 months ago. Me being me I'd researched a tonne so kinda knew what I wanted/needed but it still shocked me how easily I walked into my local Repco, asked for the bars & fitting kit, & left with them 5 mins later. Don't get me wrong; that's how I like to shop & the staffer sure appreciated it (her words verbatim: "God I wish every customer was like you..."), but still I was thinking that surely there is more to this?
I can trust in my own skills & common sense to choose & install the right system & research loads/do's & don'ts etc (& a fair chunk of prior experience), but so many vehicles these days seem to be donning the racks/platforms/cages/awnings etc & it has me seriously concerned.
I was driving back to Perth from Coral bay (WA) earlier this year at the start of the school holidays so the amount of traffic heading north was insane, but more frightening still was how many of the vehicles (~75%) had seemingly immensely overloaded roofracks.
Definitely agree that the sort of info you're talking about needs to be more front & centre so people are being made aware of it if they haven't already thought about it.
On another note; im not surprised roofracks mounted with pop rivets are failing... I'm shocked that's how any of them are installed. I gathered that the majority were installed between the rails (for vehicles with factory rails) or the fixed mount positions in the gutters (rain channels)
Come here after watching Ronny Dahl fess up. Great stuff
I noted the conversation between you and Ronny Dahl! This is very similar to everyone driving around with a 3T caravan because the car companies state you can tow up to 3.5T! People gotta start researching before they purchase! A Specification/Load Plate needs to be put on these racks so people can see them easier! Great vid mate!
11 people from 'The Rhino Team' disliked this video.
Make that 27 now....
@@quanglam4580 The Rhino Team, their family members, and anyone else they can find - but not 4wders!
Murray Ball You bet! So disappointed with their product. What a letdown.
Won’t be buying them!
Isn’t that a surprise. Rubbish company that I will not look at.
100% agree with the warning you're trying to get across. I know from personal experience that 4wd accessory sales staff themselves are not properly educated on exactly what is the safe working load. I've had the Front Runner and RR Backbone system on different vehicles and can safely say the Front Runner is the stronger unit. Enjoy the vids and adventures Tyler, keep 'em coming :)
So what’s the difference, GVM or roof rack loading......... do you research, buy your product and use it within the manufactures guide lines.
Superb vid mate. Thanks so much. Just bought a Yakima Lock N Load setup fro my 2019 Raptor. Has made me check and double check the off road load limits for my setup. cheers and all the best
Pretty intersting, I never really put much thought into it when I put on my backbone and rhino platform on my colorado. And I only ever have a swag or two on it. But when calculated, I have a off road cargo load of 25kg, meaning I can basically carry one double swag or two singles. At least I know I'm within the limits so if something happens they don't have a leg to stand on....
But it can still come flying off and potentially injure someone or worse. Knowing that It needs bolting down through the thicker steel of the roof. It's a bad situation this company has put people in.
Great video mate!
I researched racks a few years back and went with Front Runner on my NP300 because I needed something solid since I was doing the Simpson and it’s tough going. In my research I came across many stories of riveted racks coming off.
It’s great that you are creating a positive awareness.
Cheers
Nathan
If dedicated off-roaders aren’t aware of the off-road rating I’d suggest the general public would have no idea. This would make a pretty strong legal argument against rhino rack for “hiding” this rating.
Before coming across your channel, I saw your comment under Ronny Dahl’s video about his Rhino rack. Thanks for the educational info brutha. I just liked and subbed
On the Nissan site it says 80kg for that system you were running once fitted.
If you divide that by 1.5 you get 53 kg offroad.
Now from some ultra quick maths I get 53 kg for tent with no bedding, 20 kg for the platform and 10 kg for the awning.
Given that there was nothing else up there, that puts you 3 kg over on road and 30 kg offroad.
Now I don't agree with these companies that say 100 kg as that's their system and if they are selling it for a specific vehicle they need to include the specific weight for the model for which they are selling the product.
So as far as im aware the original load limit of my car is 100kg, Nissan has informed me this. Maybe that figure they already roughly misused the weight of the rack?
Ive actually since found the Rhino's fitting instructions say something different again
on road = vehicle load limit - rack weight
100-23 = 77
off road = on road divided by 1.5
77 divided by 1.5 = 51.3
thus the weight rating of mine was 51.3
So still puts me back to only being a few kgs over. I have only a sheet in the RTT, so maybe a few hundred grams?
Regardless of the exact ratings would you agree that pop rivets is a sub par/dangerous method of mounting these? And as you have said, they definitely need to make all this information more clear.
Besides the exact specifics hopefully this video got some people thinking and educated
@@TylerThompson90 Thats an awfully lightweight RTT isn't it?
If anyone decides to go rivet style mounting, at least consider using riv-nuts through the sheet metal as well as a fender washer. The washer will definitely help your roof. But definitely consider going for a better built system. It’s one less thing to have anxiety about.
Oh mate that was excellent 😂 I'm glad I stayed for the bumbles at the end 👌👌😁 great info and without sinking the boot on a product you did a epic job of informing.... With a sweet ninja like undertone of 'read between the lines' 😁👌
It stinks that we have to be research masters and near on product engineers when purchasing this stuff. It's not good enough in my opinion but thankfully we have Frontrunner! They make a great product and awesome accessories too, just have to be careful which you are can get up there without going over the kgs... 🤦🏼♂️😄 Great vid👍👍
Thank you! you probably saved my roof. I was about to get a Rhino Rack. Now it will be Frontrunner for sure
had been really interested in this story. a bit poor form from rhino, no empathy at all.
Id really love to hear about the coming feedback you get from companies after they see this. even a small update video or a story in your insta
We have a clamb shell tent on our crewcab on the Rhino rack and we did the Gibb River Road both ways after driving up from Perth. It held up to one of the roughest roads in Australia.
I feel like the off road rating is a critical bit of information that should be advertised clearly with the product. Its not reasonable to expect someone who doesn't work in the industry to know that there is 2 different ratings for a roof rack. The reasonable thing would be to advertise the lowest rating. Poor form #rhinorack @rhino-rack. I actually regret getting a rhino platform, they're not the best quality for the cost.
Thanks for the heads up. I bought Rhino Heavy Duty roof bars, the ones that clip in the top of the door jam thinking they would be better than riveting in a thin roof. I have now checked the load rating and they are only 75kg but divide by 2 for off road..so only 37.5 kg each 😯 granted for each.... But I'm glad I now know 👍
Im in the 'why would you put holes in your roof just to carry 50kg' club.
Because If I put my swags in the back, the dogs will eat them. (they refuse to travel on the roof racks)
In all seriousness, we have an ARB alloy roof rack on our Prado, it has an awning and mounts for a high lift, if the jacks being carried I can put another 25kg up there, we use it (probably over weight), but I'm not sure it was worth the cost. I don't think I'd do it again.
@@stever285 doesnt a prado have factory roof bars to mount onto?
@@Taylorrrose They have bars you can tie things down on, but I don't think they're super strong, probably not fair to call them decorative but may not be too far from the truth. When our roof rack was fitted they took the original bars off and replaced them with dedicated mounts.
Thanks Tyler. I was aware of load ratings but what shocked me was how flimsy the attachment is for the rhino back system. I have the platform mounted to roof rails though it's not carrying much weight. I've been over some pretty heavy corrugations and it hasn't shifted but your video is a timely warning to keep checking it at regular intervals and to be mindful of how much weight it will carry in different situations. I'm just going to check mine again now. :)
I think i found your problem... you definitely shouldn’t be putting your 4WD on your roof racks lol...
And i can just imagine the legal team at Rhino ready to pounce on that blooper lol...”We got him now”...
Wow thank goodness it come off at a low speed and no one got hurt thanks for the video lad good info 👍🏾
Oldest trick in the book of most companies: advertise positives, hide negatives! Also don't forget to make finding those negatives a pain in the ... brain!
Greetings from Canada 🇨🇦
Thank you for your information on this topic and as a retired Canadian long haul trucker, checking load security is number 1 , I am actually going to ramp my pre & post trips even with out a load on my rack. Cheers 🍻
To me its almost false advertisement or misinformed. They should really sell as offroad rating... rack that goes catastrophe damage with slight above weight isnt really good product. I dont blame ya for not knowing, its something that manufactures should be telling owners if they are targeting off-road vehicles
They all do it. Auto Makers are classics for it. Look at the bold print for towing - 3500kg; look at the fine print and again, after the calcs, it is massively lower!