Great video again Keelan 👍 So many people don’t spec the cables for the volt drop when looking at cable run lengths. Pretty happy we did our build before the regs came through. SKT
hey matt your the winner of our giveaway mate! flick us an email at sarahkeelan.travels@gmail.com and we will flick your prize to you! beware of scammers me and Sarah will never ask for bank details or money!
Voltage drop completely depends on the current draw. To calculate the voltage drop you need to know how much current is expected to run through the cable.
Dude you are amazing, this has just saved us a fortune, your no BS explanation is why you are so loved. Thank you and your sponsors should be proud of the relationship.
@@SarahandKeelanTravels Hi Keelan. Just a question about solar. Does every panel actually have to be fused inside or just every string. Surely if you have panels in series or parallel you don't have to come back into the van to a fuse then back out.
@@TearingTheVeil-ze4rx That's exactly what he was talking about. Every Panel needs to be fused separately. You don't have to bring a cable back out. Just connect them inside
Thanks Keelan and lassie from one qualified sparkle to another - I’m three years into my Hilux & aluminium canopy build as a grey senior and luckily a veteran Avionics technician so I won’t be taking shortcuts like a Boeing executive - thx for the update on new regulations and your passion for doing it right - I’ve installed an Amptron/RedarcEngel/Kings system and now adding Sureflo water pump and monitor, solar features and air compressor - it’s taken me this length because I’ve prototyped each stage and made appropriate changes for efficiency and safety - heavy duty cabling, circuit breakers and strong relays are my standard mantra - good luck with the new drone.
@@johnnumbat9782 Ah, no worries. Civies usually refer to us a LAME's and raafy's usally as avtechs so I got excited! Thought I may have known you for a second there! Stay well all the same mate.
"SKT, you guys truly nailed it with this video! It's refreshing to see such a clear and no-nonsense breakdown of 12-volt system requirements. Your ability to make complex information accessible for everyone is impressive. Keep up the fantastic work!"
This is literally the only video on RUclips explaining this. Cheers to you both for this video it's really helpful. Can you possibly do a video explaining how to mount the batteries internally with the gasket and vent setup?
I almost didn’t watch this because I am so used to the “two genetically gifted people doing a lap” RUclips channels talking about things they have no clue about. I shouldn’t have judged, this was so well put, so genuine, and a perfect explanation. Subscribing for sure. It’s amazing how many of the new rules are almost just common sense. (Other than a 20mm vent for a Lithium Battery haha) 😊
Little bit of a correction with the habitual area. They can be mounted in a habitual area but must be in a sealed gas tight metal container which is vented to the external environment. Under beds or couches, is still considered a habitual area. But like I said. Must be in a sealed metal container vented to the outside environment. Solar panels with an array of more than 200w must be fused.
The enclosure does not have to be metal, please show us by referring to the standard and the specific section numbers, where it specifies metal enclosures.
Nice job Keelan, as a fellow sparky I sometimes want to scream when I get the old "Lithium batteries dangerous" comments. I just point them to videos like yours so they can gain some knowledge. "SKT" keep on Living Barry !!!.
As an RC enthusiast, that comment pisses me off too. Yes, lithium batteries CAN be dangerous. WHEN something goes wrong. They need respecting, and they need to be handled and maintained correctly, as long as they are, nothing wrong with them whatsoever. Sadly the surge in lithium devices like scooters etc has suddenly turned everyone into a battery expert just because a few badly maintained or damaged escooters exploded.
Like many, I use L-ion tool batteries and not had an issue, but you do see issues with cheap E scooters or cheap E bikes. I feel it's worth spending that extra money to buy a trusted reliable brand when it comes to pretty much anything really.
Thanks legend! There’s others that just read the rules and that’s it, no practical guidance. Hopefully we have given the people the tools to go make good decisions now!! Thanks for watching
Don’t forget the front boot of older vans. Our setup is a control panel that has dcdc and 240v chargers, along with a fuse panel above the batteries, which are attached to the floor of the boot, with a run of less than a metre. The front boot is gal lined and double vented. Using 6b n s wiring through out.
Wow in Australia they teach critical thinking and common sense, unlike here in America. I can't recall anyone in the States talking as much sense as this guy. Great video ! 😊
Also in America they have a lot of super criminal Solar companies, the reason why they don't tell you the truth about Solar. And the reason why many Solar companies are going out of business. People in America don't trust Solar companies.
The laws of physics are the same regardless of where you live, but the laws around safety are vastly different. I don’t have an explanation. Welcome to the human race I guess.
Many thanks! I actually bought a lithium battery today to convert from AGM in the back of my Ranger. Everything is fused before and after the charger. I’ve also been advised to add a shunt between battery and accessories. Cheers guys great channels and enjoy your travels.
The shunt will allow you to monitor the state of charge of the battery (see how much fuel is left in the tank). Shunts don't provide circuit protection like fuses and breakers do.
As a sparky/instro for 20years you are spot on Vd is a huge thing, I’ve done a heap of boats and van setups and get people criticising my work because they think I’ve used to big of a cable and I fuse every run. I calculate all my installs for Vd and select the appropriate cable to suite the load. This 12v field has to many unlicensed cowboy in it the ESO needs to start regulating it.
Mate a lot of full ticket sparkies don't understand voltage drop even in their core business. Get them into ELV systems and DC and they are totally out of their depth. . Time and time again, across all fields, people are too stingy, to do what it takes and pay for big enough cable. . You keep doin it right. It's not your sparky ticket that makes you do it right, it's your personal desire to do so.
@@soundman6645 i completly agree. I m one of those unlicenced cowboy but i did calculate the voltage drop and followed the AS 3000. So if you want to do things right, it s not rocket science to do so. Yes, It does need a little bit of research.
bought a camper trailler in March this year and there was a delay in delivery due to the need to externalise the lithium system. Previous campers had it in the storage in the internal 'lounge' area. So spot on there. lost a little external storage to pick up some safety and internal storage
Thanks SKT for the no BS overview. We are looking at a new camper and still need to work out where to put the electrical. I’m loving your idea of the external battery bank/box. That could work so well for our trailer too. I appreciate you making this video as I think you will have saved us so much time, frustration and money. Plus give us some solid information to have an informed conversation on the topic. THANK YOU!!!
Thanks bro, I'm a sparkle in nsw as well and have been in the solar industry for more than 17 years and I agree with all y ouve said! Goodness, no BS!! Phil
SKT Thanks Keelan for very informative info. We are just starting this process you and Sarah have embarked on. Many thanks to itechworld too for the great savings..
Hey guys found your channnel today and literally sat on the couch all day watching it Your 12v knowledge is unreal and the way you explain it is so simple We’re hooked u guys, great vids 👍
What a great video - as a non sparky I fully understood the logic. With the batteries mounted outside you're also recovering valuable inside space under bench seats which can be used to store other things. SKT ❤🔥
Legendary Cus. 👍🏻 I am an auto sparkie in Nz. I have just gotten a bus 2 convert and busy designing my 12v side. The lack of straight answers has been driving me nuts. Even tried downloading the new Regs but still yet to come across real specs and requirements. Many thanks
I'm currently wiring up my 24v system and the main factor for keeping the wiring short for me is the cost! crazy expensive if you have to run 90mm2 wire from one end of your van to the other, all adds up in cost and weight very quickly.
- 24V is a secret to saving $ $ on copper - 48V is even better. (though in the interests of safety a 90mm2 power "bus" does get current from tip to tail without too much problem.- even jumpstart someone off the tailend 350A Anderson, though it costs(once) to install 15 metres of hooge copper..)
Well, with 48V systems you can just run 35mm^2 (2 AWG) and not worry too much about losses. 5000W @ 100A is a lot of power. 50mm^2 (1 AWG) for long cable runs if you are really worried and actually intend to push 5000W. 90mm^2 is total overkill in a 48V system. A lot of unnecessary weight and bulk and cost. No safety concerns, you obviously fuse the cable for its carrying capability. -Matt
Hey guys, love your work. Keelan, good to hear that you're promoting AS3001 Regulation Compliance - You are soooooo right about the hoards of Cowboys in the Rec Vehicle Industry.
Mate you two rock and providing such a valuable social service as well as entertainment! If you wanted for precaution sake want to include a gas isolation box, do you have any direction on where to go? SKT Keep the good vibes rolling!
How do you fuse each panel if they are in series.. Like say my 3x 200w on my rooftop tent the cables are connected under the panels then the pos/neg cable goes into the rooftop tent down into the canopy.. Would that mean you have to have a split on the positive of each panel and have 3 positives going down?
what ticks me off with the whole motor and caravan industry is when I purchased a caravan in QLD and went to get it registered in Adelaide, I had to go for an inspection, on arrival I asked if they wanted to see the electrical and gas compliance certificate, NOPE, I paid $75 for a 5 min inspection, all they cared about was if it wasn't stolen, had a VIN number and the reflectors where in the right spot. my 12v was less than average which i have now fixed myself to a higher standard.
Thanks for the info on individual solar fusing. I recently built a camper with an unfused panel on the roof (wiring is capable of handling a full short circuit current with the wire size used and nothing flammable within the wire paths). I'm going to add an extra panel and fuse them both now!
You are right to follow the electric car manufacturers and put the batteries outside the human spaces. The issues with all batteries, even Lead Acid, and LiPo, is that the combination of high current and battery chemistry can get VERY HOT, when things go wrong. I have had a Lead Acid battery blow the side off, spewing acid right across the engine compartment, when it was shorted. All of the Lithium, and Sodium (when it arrives) batteries have the potential to get hot enough to melt steel plate, and set alight to Aluminium plate. Protection circuits are good and will keep them mostly safe, but they cannot protect them from damage. PUT BATTERIES OUTSIDE. I am a registered NZ Service tech, with full Electronic qualification, and 50+ years of experience. My current experience is with safety around disposing of Lithium batteries, and their use in being charged by solar panels, to drive Energisers.
Only some of these batteries that I’ve seen are fit to be outside. Namely Itech and Baintech. The rest have a lower IP rating so need to be in an inside space. There are new boxes made that have a sealed top with external terminal posts and a vent tube which I still believe the vent tube should be made of something more substantial but otherwise are compliant.
@@paulhunter4413 They crux of the battery problem is not the battery chemistry, it is the instantaneous current they can generate. This is where the heat comes from. I have yet to decide how to contain batteries, plastic is too flammable, and metal that holds on to the heat can be a issue itself. Steel mesh underneath is the best solution I can think of. Except for vented batteries, they can all go outside as long as the connections are coated.
Great info there only 1 question I have with lithium being outside is temperature, As we visit the hi country, in winter if it to cold lithium will shuts down! as my battery is under the seat and the battery stays around 15 - 22 degrees with -4 outside. What temp can lithium go down to before shutting down ?.
Cheers for the episode. Seems like some of the regs make sense, others seem like they adhere to more universal reg rules of making little sense 😂 I struggle with the logic of needing to vent batteries if there is a 240v input but not if there isn't. Caravan 1: Lifepo4 batteries with 240v mains charger and 15a mains input = seal/vent? Caravan 2: Lifepo4 batteries with no mains charger. 15a mains input only runs 240v circuits. 240v and 12v totally separate systems = seal/vent? Caravan 3: Lifepo4 batteries with 12v charging only. No 15a mains input = put the batteries anywhere? Quite aside from the fact that if lifepo4 has entered a run away state, venting gasses for the short period of time between run away starting and a pile of ash seems pointless. Lifepo4 batteries are sealed so are only going to vent if something has gone badly wrong. In that instance 20mm opening with no pressure differential isn't going to do much. Have I got the wrong end of the stick here??? Do you know why the 15a mains input is the trigger?
When there’s a 15A mains input then it falls under the Australian standard for portable powered structures. It’s like this because the structure/caravan is then connected to the grid. So it’s possible that faults can back feed into the grid
The 15A connection being the trigger for falling under the standard is clear enough. But it seems that these new regs are deliberately targeting battery systems rather than battery systems being unintended collateral damage. Given the battery is most likely 12/24/48v it'd be hard pressed to back feed a voltage or current through the mains charger (it's only connection to the grid) that would adversely impact the grid which runs at kv. If back feed was the concern, putting the batteries outside or in a box won't avoid that. It still means that if there is no 15A connection to grid, you can have the battery anywhere you want but if there is a 15A grid connection the battery needs to be sealed/vented. Seems a bit strange.
@@DW-10I believe that the regulation should apply to both and it's likely to catch up eventually.. LiFePO4 chemistry technically doesn't burn but the gases released in the event of thermal runaway are toxic and include plenty of hydrogen which goes 💥 In Germany a guy that had LiFePO4 in his basement had his house turned into splinters and rubble yet there was no fire.. people that claim LiFePO4 chemistry is 100% safe, turn their noses up when they hear this and simply fob it off...
I'm under no impression that Lifepo4 batteries are 100% safe. In the event of thermal runaway is a sealed box with a 20mm vent port going to make a material difference?
@@DW-10 The regulators have to make a living sometimes 🤣 so they justify their existence by updating the regs..? It would certainly help initially with the venting of the gases "outside" the space the people are in
Thanks so much for for helping us all on what we should be looking for and what we should think about when we upgrade on 4:19 what we already have. I’ll differently use your ‘SKT’ to get some itech lithium batteries that we can fit outside on the chassis. Thanks again and happy travels
Super informative. -- Question: I'm in the USA. We don't have a law like this at present. My question... I have an EcoFlow Delta Pro unit and put it inside my caravan, connected to solar panels on the roof. I have a Toyhauler caravan that's about 10 meters long. The back room is a garage, but we also sleep in there after we offload our toys, with the EcoFlow unit in the same space. I didn't think LifeP04 had off-gassing issues that other batteries do. So I do not have my unit in an outside vented box. It just lives inside with us. Aside from the fan noise, do I need to worry about dangerous off-gassing or anything?
13:20 where charging equipment is a long way away from the batteries, makes me think are there units (or mods) where you have a battery voltage sense cable running from the charging unit to the batteries. This way battery charging voltage is measured directly at the battery, and the drop across the charging cable will be compensated for.
Good video 👌 As an ex Electrican & with decent (Lithuim Ion Cobalt & Li-Ion Phospate battery experience) i would also strongly suggest using a "Metal Battery box" enclosure (not aluminum, im not assuming you have used aluminum but just making others aware of this) and having the 20mm venting pipe also made from Metal. Do not recommend PVC ! If Li - Ion Phospate cell/cells (Lifepo4) do ever internally fail, yes there is no violent thermal runaway with shooting flames but the LifeP04 cells can be subject to "extreme tempertures" & extremly hot smoke/gassing when a cell faliure occurs meaning an Aluminum Enclosure could potentially melt or if using a PVC 20mm gassing vent pipe (for example), the pipe could also melt then catch on fire whilst trying to vent. I believe lining a metal battery box enclosure in Fibre cement boarding or other high temperture resistance products & using appropriate high temperture resistance adhesives would be highly beneficial. Using a 20mm "Metal conduit" with appropriate metal bends for venting purposes would also be encouraged. I mean at the end of the day its where the family sleeps & who needs a potential fire taken hold of ones caravan/camp trailer, potentially when everyones deep asleep in which this risk can be easily reduced in the planning/constructing stage. (As suggested above) Im loving the fact that your batteries are on the OUTSIDE of your living space. (Added safety for sure) Eg The Voltage Drop is so important in a extra low voltage (12V) installation. An Excellent point you shared 😊👍 Cheers for the upload 🍻 Note - As an example : i use a ammo can (fibre cement lined with high temperature adhesive & vented) when storing my R/C Lipo batterys. Same principle applies but obviously Lipo cells are far more unstable than Lifepo4 Chemistry.
Non inhabitable ??? Whoops. lol Don't forget people, an Arc Welder is 24v and upwards from 50A, A battery bank can supply hundreds of Amps at 12/24/36/48volts and up to 300v or 400+v for House type of Inverters.
yeh too many people are unaware of the massive fault currents possible and the consequences of failure. Yeh we commonly weld with around 100 amps, then conside even the average car battery will produce 300 or 400 amps short circuit.
Loved the video, but i would love more information. I got a van I am doing and trying to sort out the electrical system. Regarding the battery box, How would you suggest adding a 20mm vent to the battery box? Is there some flange & 20mm pipe combo that can be used? And as for the gasketing the lid, how would you best achieve that? Just silicon it down, or is there an ideal material it should be made of?
We swapped out our agms for the iTechworld batteries early last year, before the X range came in, and we still couldn't be happier. Twice the storage and a third of the weight. Your videos up to the Cape showed how resilient the batteries can be. Thank you legends.
Are the definitions of habitable areas different in vans than in as5139? If you decide to put batteries under your bed do they have to be in a fire proof container?
I agree with pretty much everything I've heard up to the 15 minute mark, as far as I've listened so far. My query would be that the intention of the "not in a habitable space" clause is so that if the battery does go off, it isn't going to turn the living area into a raging inferno. I could be wrong, but I dont think people understand what would be required to thermally contain a sizeable battery bank in thermal runaway. Sealing/gasketing is one thing, but firewalling is an entirely different thing. You may have a sealed compartment under a bed or lounge, but I bet you dollars to donuts, the first time one of these things goes off, it'll make a mockery of that "compliance". The temperature, burn time and non extinguishability of these products is a phenomenal. What are your thoughts?
I wonder if housing them in a metal case that if ignition occurs could be filled with water to submerge the batteries. Of course, the trouble then is the rest of the time, any water needs to easily escape to prevent rusting of the compartment.
@@geoffsmith82 That is a very bad idea. The Lithium would react with the water and create a mix of hydrogen and lithium oxide, which is highly explosive.
Hi Keelan and thanks so much for your video on AS3001. My question is regarding the individually fused solar panels. I have 3 running into a junction box feeding to the solar controller. I have fused just before and the solar controller that I was told acts exactly the same as an isolation switch and then fused after to solar controller to the batteries. Hence the only way I can fuse each solar panel is on the roof by cutting in the fuse to each panel. If required I am happy to do that but my question is why is it that the suppliers don't fuse each at manufacture? In my case do I still need to fuse each to comply? Thanks again and I wish you safe travels. Elvio.
As a qualified Auto Electrician and Electrician. Many 12volt set ups should be using quality High Rupture Current (HRC) fuses. I do for my DCDC battery charger.
Yes, I wish to install a dcdc charger. I already have a relay for it from my main Lead Acid battery, so it is automatic... if that is allowed, I noticed now they are placing a switch on these devices that is a once only turn on for the device. The problem is that anyone can bypass anything. I view that these devices are extremely difficult to open however I have a hacksaw blade and Zero electrical knowledge. Boom 💥
With thr new regs in mind, Do you only recomed blade fuses inside rhe van and do you have an isolation switch before the fuses or after fuses from tour solar panels? I get the itech are submersible in water however your wiring over time corrode wirh outdoor batteries especially doijg beach runs, i have seen it in my wiring with my Urban built hydrid.
As another fellow electrician i dont agree it is perfectly safe to sleep on top of a large storage system..there are other faults that can happen besides a lithium fire. Simple loose connections could cause i fire ride under neath you. I would not even have my control gear under my bed.
So you can sit over the massive storage battery when you driving, but you can't sleep over it? If you would get trapped in the car after the crash and battery pack would get damaged it is still legal.
I have 2 115ah AGM batteries and 1 160w solar panel I am going to add another 1 but not sure if I should add up to 4 total or 2. I have a enerdrive 40+ charger, and a 3000w inverter that can run the A/C or tv during the day for those roadside stops. I want the solar setup to be just above enough to keep batteries topped up and the voltage drop us not a worry as the inverter is right next to the batteries. Also series or parallel for the added panels?
Putting the lithium batteries outside isn't such a great idea in New Zealand and probably if you are a ski bunny in Aussie. You guys will well know what temperatures we have here in NZ from your experience 2 years ago. And you will also know the issues lithium has charging at below zero temperatures and potentially the damage that can occur to the battery. The battery location is very much a horses for courses situation.
For sure! I can understand that! I like to think I’m well versed to give advice for Australian conditions but I am definitely not scared to say I have no idea about NZ
@@SarahandKeelanTravelsfor cold temperatures, you can get batteries with internal heating elements in LFP and NCA chemistries - we've been using them in 24V applications for ages.
There's these places that owe their existence to James Silk Buckingham, MP for Sheffield. He began these places in 1835. These places have shelves and various reading materials as well as computers.
@@interestedobserver587 are you trying to say you can access via a library? If so, library doesn't have all and physical access is limited. Also the pilot online program isn't available for all.
@@interestedobserver587 you have to access via their 'reading room' for library access. I'm more than happy to be proven wrong, but show me where I can access the AS/NZS 3000:2018 for free.
@@interestedobserver587 happy to be wrong, but show me where I can access AS/NZS 3000:2018 for free. Without having to go to a 'reading room' in a library.
Hi Keelan. In a typical caravan electrical setup, what are the best spec solar panels to obtain? I see panels rated at 160 - 200 watts (which is what I currently have) but I have noted that the stated voltage can be 12v, 16v or 20+v. What voltage is best? Does it depend on the rated output of my BMS? My BMS has a stated 30amp max output. Cheers.
They are broadly Lithium Ion batteries the key two are Lithium-Ion - NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt - Older slightly more energy dense) and Lithium-Ion - LFP - Lithium Iron Phosphate. Both emit noxious fumes and if they happen to go into thermal runaway will still self-propagate. The chemistry change was primarily driven by the cost of Nikel and Cobalt as the NMC are more energy-dense.
Thanks Keela . I've got 2 panels on the roof going to a regulator to AGM so there are no lithium issues, but do I still need to put fuses and circuit breaker into the system to be compliant? Van made in 2007!
Great video and i have learned a lot. My question is and as you stated the new rules in regards to the placement of lithium batteries inside of the caravan. What is the ruling in regards to a caravan that is 12 years old. I have a 2012 Jayco pop top caravan that i'm replaceing the 2 x 220 Ah AGM batteries that are now 6 years old and on there way out. I have just ordered one voltx 300 Ah lithium battery to replace the AGM's . All of the battery charging, solar controller, smart shunt ( all Victron and blue tooth to my phone ) fuseing and a small 300 watt 240 volt pure sign wave inverter ( this is now seldom used and mainly now for running my electric shaver ) All of this equipment lives under our bed in our caravan. I also now have 1000 watts of solar on the roof of the caravan. I understand the for a new build and the rules that have to be followed, BUT what about a caravan that ( in my case ) is over 12 years old now.
6 месяцев назад+1
Just got this video from RUclips algorithm I think this SKT channel should be SKT10 For 10/10 not BSing around like other videos I have seen. Great work, I guess you just got another subscriber now.
Hi You said in an old video about solar that the flexible solar panels are efficient. Do you if the new 200 WATT 12 VOLT FLEXIBLE AND LIGHTWEIGHT HPBC SOLAR PANEL from Itechworld are good.
SKT Great video as always guys. Good explanation for those that are not electrically minded. Plain English is what is needed more within technical explanations, well done.
When you say vented to the ambient air, does that mean a vent to the outside of the van, or can that just be a vent in the box enclosure, on the inside of the van? Thanks for clarifying!
Just on battery placement in a canopy. Did I understand it correctly I can legally mount it inside the canopy without any battery box as long as the canopy is vented due to canopy being inhabitable space?
Thank you Keegan - SKT. The vid was super interesting and informative. You said you were going to explain things in layman’s terms and you did. I am a complete novice and was able to understand what you were explaining. Absolute ripper segment. Thanks again.
Keelan - Wow! Talk about perfect timing. Last night I watched a video by Ronny Dahl about Dual Battery Systems ... "Most People Get This Wrong." and the gist I got was exactly what you said about locating the lithium batteries close to you charging system. Less wiring, distances and better efficiency. What impresses me the most about SKT is your passion for the consumer and the challenge for manufacturers to think of us not just themselves, in fact I just setn a request to Urban Caravans for a quote to build us a rig. Thanks Mate.
Geniune question what is the purpose of the individual fuses to each solar panel? The panel is obviously never going to generate more power than is it rated for, do they sometimes develop an internal short circuit when they fail?
What about when you put the solar in parallel to increase the voltage so you can lower the current and the cable size and get less voltage drop? Would you then have to add all the fuses on the roof in-between the panels?
You started by talking about 15A inputs. The input would go to 240v charger I am assuming. Any reg changes regarding 240v chargers or inverters? What about lithium in the back of a 200 landcruiser and in the back of sealed canopies. Do these new changes affect them as well. I have a ute canopy with a 15A input for my 240V charger. I have a lithium and dcdc/mppt in the canopy all fused and with isolators. I also have a whirlybird on top of canopy to keep the canopy cool. Am I complaint and safe? Regards Paul
Just a question. In relation to lithium installation complaint rules, for vans manufactured with already installed lithium batteries before the deadline of 18/11/2023, are those vans potentially at risk of voiding insurance if something were to happen due to something being installed incorrectly?
Great Video - I am wondering now about my dual batt setup. The second battery is behind the 2nd row seats in a crew cab. Currently it is AGM. If I swap to LIFEPO4, is it legal??
Just a couple of solar / inverter / off grid questions if i may. (FYI 1. I'm a qualified Electronics technician and Electrical mechanic which allows me to do basic electrical work such as white goods. 2. Spent 40 years trained as a component level design and repair tech 3. Practical class teacher) Q1. Solar - Have the latest standards re motorhomes and solar panels, mentioned the amount of panels and their configuration eg strings and series/parallel, and total Voc in a string, as one industry source led me to believe only 12v panels are max. Q2. Over the last few years i have been designing an off grid setup for our bus using 48v battery system and an off grid high frequency inverter which means that i need solar panels in series producing 250vdc and 2.5kw. Is this still legal even though each panel will now be fused and an isolator installed? Q3. Also have shore power inlet, and provision for a diesel generator. Btw, the inverter is a 5kw unit with provision to expand to 30kw by daisy chaining extra inverters. Being a three axle bus/motorhome, weight is no real concern. While arranging auto switching contactors to select between inverter mains input/shore power/ generator will this meet the new standards? Q4. What the latest on the installation of solar panels on the roof, eg fixing and mounting. If you re too busy or the chance this may be a "too hard basket case", I'll welcome any input you may have. Great work btw, awesome video. Cheers...
Very interest video, thanks for the info that was quite invaluable! Stupid question, The rules only apply to connected batteries and only when you can hook up to mains power? Like a spare lifepo batttery under the bed does not apply for the rules? Our current van came out the factory in Aug '23 and im 90% sure there are no fuses on the solar panels anywhere and no isolation switch (there are fuses sitting on top of the batteries between the bmpro and the batteries, but nothing else that I have seen). So that would seem to be a little unlucky for me in many ways.
Great vid Keelan. Does the new regs apply to AGM batteries? I fully agree to the solar regs and will upgrade my van with fuses, but do I need to seal off the AGM battery?
Hey mate. Great video thank you. Quick question. Lithium battery in the tray of my Ford ranger with a fibreglass canopy. Does that need to be in a sealed box also?? Or because the canopy isn't habitable its okay??
Great info thanks. My question is if you have everything say under the bed or dinette, this includes chargers inverter etc that generate heat near your batteries and only vent to outside without allowing air flow in which i currently have things could get a little hotter than ideal for the batteries etc. any thoughts.
So, in summary, because I don't have a 240v input into my SUV LIFEPO4 battery system ( the batteries are inside the vehicle) I am not required to gaskets seal and vent my batteries?
Hey thanks for the no BS video. I have a Jayco 21.5 Silverline Outback van that is really struggling to keep 2x120 amp AGM batteries charged and they’re only 2 months old. After looking at this video I’m starting to get the impression I need to go back to the drawing board. This video is a great starting point - cheers
Great video Keelan. Some great tips and info. Wish other RUclipsrs would give simple and concise information you do. It is said, that if you can make a complicated subject simple then you know your subject, which you do. Keep it coming SKT.
Thanks for this. My current lead acid batteries are mounted outside the caravan in battery boxes. If I upgrade my batteries to lithium, do I also need to comply with the other laws that are unrelated to the batteries? e.g.: do I need to individually fuse the solar panels to remain compliant?
Great video again Keelan 👍
So many people don’t spec the cables for the volt drop when looking at cable run lengths.
Pretty happy we did our build before the regs came through.
SKT
hey matt your the winner of our giveaway mate! flick us an email at sarahkeelan.travels@gmail.com and we will flick your prize to you! beware of scammers me and Sarah will never ask for bank details or money!
@@SarahandKeelanTravelsthanks guys, email sent 😄
Voltage drop completely depends on the current draw. To calculate the voltage drop you need to know how much current is expected to run through the cable.
Dude you are amazing, this has just saved us a fortune, your no BS explanation is why you are so loved. Thank you and your sponsors should be proud of the relationship.
Far out what an amazing comment, glad I can help! Made my day! 🍻🤙🏽
Looks Stoic Scottish to me.
@@SarahandKeelanTravels Hi Keelan. Just a question about solar. Does every panel actually have to be fused inside or just every string. Surely if you have panels in series or parallel you don't have to come back into the van to a fuse then back out.
@@TearingTheVeil-ze4rx That's exactly what he was talking about. Every Panel needs to be fused separately. You don't have to bring a cable back out. Just connect them inside
Thanks Keelan and lassie from one qualified sparkle to another - I’m three years into my Hilux & aluminium canopy build as a grey senior and luckily a veteran Avionics technician so I won’t be taking shortcuts like a Boeing executive - thx for the update on new regulations and your passion for doing it right - I’ve installed an Amptron/RedarcEngel/Kings system and now adding Sureflo water pump and monitor, solar features and air compressor - it’s taken me this length because I’ve prototyped each stage and made appropriate changes for efficiency and safety - heavy duty cabling, circuit breakers and strong relays are my standard mantra - good luck with the new drone.
What squadron mate? I'm an ex 75SQN avtech.
@@----.__ I was a only a civie for several years bu my father did Aussie airforce as a LAME then civie like me.
@@johnnumbat9782 Ah, no worries. Civies usually refer to us a LAME's and raafy's usally as avtechs so I got excited! Thought I may have known you for a second there!
Stay well all the same mate.
if your canopy is not a living space, ie somewhere you sleep, these rules do not entirely apply, ie the battery sealing in a box issue.
"SKT, you guys truly nailed it with this video! It's refreshing to see such a clear and no-nonsense breakdown of 12-volt system requirements. Your ability to make complex information accessible for everyone is impressive. Keep up the fantastic work!"
As someone who has lived off grid for 10 years and built my own solar set-up,i can say he's 100 percent spot On,
Same here been off grid for bout the same time.
This is literally the only video on RUclips explaining this. Cheers to you both for this video it's really helpful. Can you possibly do a video explaining how to mount the batteries internally with the gasket and vent setup?
I almost didn’t watch this because I am so used to the “two genetically gifted people doing a lap” RUclips channels talking about things they have no clue about.
I shouldn’t have judged, this was so well put, so genuine, and a perfect explanation. Subscribing for sure.
It’s amazing how many of the new rules are almost just common sense. (Other than a 20mm vent for a Lithium Battery haha) 😊
Fat chunks can be genetically gifted too 😊
Little bit of a correction with the habitual area. They can be mounted in a habitual area but must be in a sealed gas tight metal container which is vented to the external environment. Under beds or couches, is still considered a habitual area. But like I said. Must be in a sealed metal container vented to the outside environment.
Solar panels with an array of more than 200w must be fused.
@@TorqueKit Err, the word is HABITABLE. not inhabitable, habitual or habital.
The enclosure does not have to be metal, please show us by referring to the standard and the specific section numbers, where it specifies metal enclosures.
Nice job Keelan, as a fellow sparky I sometimes want to scream when I get the old "Lithium batteries dangerous" comments. I just point them to videos like yours so they can gain some knowledge. "SKT" keep on Living Barry !!!.
evs have lifepo4 batteries and burn daily0--china has 21000 reported ev fires a year from lithioum lifepo4, imagine how many are not reported
As an RC enthusiast, that comment pisses me off too. Yes, lithium batteries CAN be dangerous. WHEN something goes wrong. They need respecting, and they need to be handled and maintained correctly, as long as they are, nothing wrong with them whatsoever. Sadly the surge in lithium devices like scooters etc has suddenly turned everyone into a battery expert just because a few badly maintained or damaged escooters exploded.
Like many, I use L-ion tool batteries and not had an issue, but you do see issues with cheap E scooters or cheap E bikes. I feel it's worth spending that extra money to buy a trusted reliable brand when it comes to pretty much anything really.
Lithium batteries aren’t dangerous lmao - people are more dangerous than batteries
@@jamesaustralian9829and electric cars go into thermal runaway all the time
One sparky to another your video was fantastic and so easy to understand for people that don’t understand. Legend
Thanks
Best video on RUclips for this subject, nice work guys.
Thanks legend! There’s others that just read the rules and that’s it, no practical guidance. Hopefully we have given the people the tools to go make good decisions now!! Thanks for watching
Don’t forget the front boot of older vans.
Our setup is a control panel that has dcdc and 240v chargers, along with a fuse panel above the batteries, which are attached to the floor of the boot, with a run of less than a metre.
The front boot is gal lined and double vented.
Using 6b n s wiring through out.
Just love your passion. Hard to find blokes like you that are passionate about there trade and just want to help other. Cheers mate for sharing
Thanks legend!! Yeah mate I love it aye! Could talk power all day long! Glad I can help! Makes me feel useful!! Cheers for watching 🤙🏽
Another very informative vid mate...can't wait to share this with the rest of my family who all have off grid vans.
Wow in Australia they teach critical thinking and common sense, unlike here in America. I can't recall anyone in the States talking as much sense as this guy. Great video ! 😊
Why do you speak in general? Every country has r3t@rds!
The price you pay for freedom.
We fund our school system better is my guess
Also in America they have a lot of super criminal Solar companies, the reason why they don't tell you the truth about Solar. And the reason why many Solar companies are going out of business. People in America don't trust Solar companies.
The laws of physics are the same regardless of where you live, but the laws around safety are vastly different. I don’t have an explanation. Welcome to the human race I guess.
Many thanks! I actually bought a lithium battery today to convert from AGM in the back of my Ranger. Everything is fused before and after the charger. I’ve also been advised to add a shunt between battery and accessories. Cheers guys great channels and enjoy your travels.
The shunt will allow you to monitor the state of charge of the battery (see how much fuel is left in the tank). Shunts don't provide circuit protection like fuses and breakers do.
Shunt goes between the Negative terminal and the charger/loads. You want it to measure both charging current and discharging current.
As a sparky/instro for 20years you are spot on Vd is a huge thing, I’ve done a heap of boats and van setups and get people criticising my work because they think I’ve used to big of a cable and I fuse every run. I calculate all my installs for Vd and select the appropriate cable to suite the load. This 12v field has to many unlicensed cowboy in it the ESO needs to start regulating it.
Mate a lot of full ticket sparkies don't understand voltage drop even in their core business.
Get them into ELV systems and DC and they are totally out of their depth.
.
Time and time again, across all fields, people are too stingy, to do what it takes and pay for big enough cable.
.
You keep doin it right.
It's not your sparky ticket that makes you do it right, it's your personal desire to do so.
@@soundman6645 i completly agree. I m one of those unlicenced cowboy but i did calculate the voltage drop and followed the AS 3000. So if you want to do things right, it s not rocket science to do so. Yes, It does need a little bit of research.
@@AlbanCoville you keep dpin it right brother
bought a camper trailler in March this year and there was a delay in delivery due to the need to externalise the lithium system. Previous campers had it in the storage in the internal 'lounge' area. So spot on there. lost a little external storage to pick up some safety and internal storage
Another good Skt vid. These new laws really affect me because I was just about to tech screw my lithium batteries on my kitchen bench.
Better to use plumbers silastic because it's in the kitchen. And zip ties too.
Thanks SKT for the no BS overview. We are looking at a new camper and still need to work out where to put the electrical. I’m loving your idea of the external battery bank/box. That could work so well for our trailer too. I appreciate you making this video as I think you will have saved us so much time, frustration and money. Plus give us some solid information to have an informed conversation on the topic. THANK YOU!!!
Thanks bro, I'm a sparkle in nsw as well and have been in the solar industry for more than 17 years and I agree with all y ouve said! Goodness, no BS!! Phil
Thank you so much! I don't subscribe to many channels but yours I subscribed to without hesitation. You have saved me a small fortune. Thank you!
SKT
Thanks Keelan for very informative info.
We are just starting this process you and Sarah have embarked on.
Many thanks to itechworld too for the great savings..
Hey guys found your channnel today and literally sat on the couch all day watching it
Your 12v knowledge is unreal and the way you explain it is so simple
We’re hooked u guys, great vids 👍
What a great video - as a non sparky I fully understood the logic. With the batteries mounted outside you're also recovering valuable inside space under bench seats which can be used to store other things. SKT ❤🔥
Well done!!!!! Finally a youtuber that is ' allowed', ' qualified' to speak about a topic. Firk yeah, good on ya.
Love your public service announcements SKT! Keep up the good work!
Legendary Cus. 👍🏻
I am an auto sparkie in Nz. I have just gotten a bus 2 convert and busy designing my 12v side. The lack of straight answers has been driving me nuts. Even tried downloading the new Regs but still yet to come across real specs and requirements.
Many thanks
I'm currently wiring up my 24v system and the main factor for keeping the wiring short for me is the cost! crazy expensive if you have to run 90mm2 wire from one end of your van to the other, all adds up in cost and weight very quickly.
- 24V is a secret to saving $ $ on copper - 48V is even better. (though in the interests of safety a 90mm2 power "bus" does get current from tip to tail without too much problem.- even jumpstart someone off the tailend 350A Anderson, though it costs(once) to install 15 metres of hooge copper..)
Well, with 48V systems you can just run 35mm^2 (2 AWG) and not worry too much about losses. 5000W @ 100A is a lot of power. 50mm^2 (1 AWG) for long cable runs if you are really worried and actually intend to push 5000W.
90mm^2 is total overkill in a 48V system. A lot of unnecessary weight and bulk and cost. No safety concerns, you obviously fuse the cable for its carrying capability.
-Matt
Hey guys, love your work. Keelan, good to hear that you're promoting AS3001 Regulation Compliance - You are soooooo right about the hoards of Cowboys in the Rec Vehicle Industry.
Mate you two rock and providing such a valuable social service as well as entertainment!
If you wanted for precaution sake want to include a gas isolation box, do you have any direction on where to go?
SKT
Keep the good vibes rolling!
How do you fuse each panel if they are in series.. Like say my 3x 200w on my rooftop tent the cables are connected under the panels then the pos/neg cable goes into the rooftop tent down into the canopy.. Would that mean you have to have a split on the positive of each panel and have 3 positives going down?
what ticks me off with the whole motor and caravan industry is when I purchased a caravan in QLD and went to get it registered in Adelaide, I had to go for an inspection, on arrival I asked if they wanted to see the electrical and gas compliance certificate, NOPE, I paid $75 for a 5 min inspection, all they cared about was if it wasn't stolen, had a VIN number and the reflectors where in the right spot. my 12v was less than average which i have now fixed myself to a higher standard.
And stamped vins... is that a 4 or a 7
Thanks for the info on individual solar fusing. I recently built a camper with an unfused panel on the roof (wiring is capable of handling a full short circuit current with the wire size used and nothing flammable within the wire paths). I'm going to add an extra panel and fuse them both now!
You are right to follow the electric car manufacturers and put the batteries outside the human spaces. The issues with all batteries, even Lead Acid, and LiPo, is that the combination of high current and battery chemistry can get VERY HOT, when things go wrong. I have had a Lead Acid battery blow the side off, spewing acid right across the engine compartment, when it was shorted. All of the Lithium, and Sodium (when it arrives) batteries have the potential to get hot enough to melt steel plate, and set alight to Aluminium plate. Protection circuits are good and will keep them mostly safe, but they cannot protect them from damage. PUT BATTERIES OUTSIDE.
I am a registered NZ Service tech, with full Electronic qualification, and 50+ years of experience. My current experience is with safety around disposing of Lithium batteries, and their use in being charged by solar panels, to drive Energisers.
Only some of these batteries that I’ve seen are fit to be outside. Namely Itech and Baintech. The rest have a lower IP rating so need to be in an inside space. There are new boxes made that have a sealed top with external terminal posts and a vent tube which I still believe the vent tube should be made of something more substantial but otherwise are compliant.
@@paulhunter4413 They crux of the battery problem is not the battery chemistry, it is the instantaneous current they can generate. This is where the heat comes from. I have yet to decide how to contain batteries, plastic is too flammable, and metal that holds on to the heat can be a issue itself. Steel mesh underneath is the best solution I can think of.
Except for vented batteries, they can all go outside as long as the connections are coated.
Great info there only 1 question I have with lithium being outside is temperature, As we visit the hi country, in winter if it to cold lithium will shuts down! as my battery is under the seat and the battery stays around 15 - 22 degrees with -4 outside. What temp can lithium go down to before shutting down ?.
Cheers for the episode.
Seems like some of the regs make sense, others seem like they adhere to more universal reg rules of making little sense 😂
I struggle with the logic of needing to vent batteries if there is a 240v input but not if there isn't.
Caravan 1: Lifepo4 batteries with 240v mains charger and 15a mains input = seal/vent?
Caravan 2: Lifepo4 batteries with no mains charger. 15a mains input only runs 240v circuits. 240v and 12v totally separate systems = seal/vent?
Caravan 3: Lifepo4 batteries with 12v charging only. No 15a mains input = put the batteries anywhere?
Quite aside from the fact that if lifepo4 has entered a run away state, venting gasses for the short period of time between run away starting and a pile of ash seems pointless. Lifepo4 batteries are sealed so are only going to vent if something has gone badly wrong. In that instance 20mm opening with no pressure differential isn't going to do much.
Have I got the wrong end of the stick here???
Do you know why the 15a mains input is the trigger?
When there’s a 15A mains input then it falls under the Australian standard for portable powered structures.
It’s like this because the structure/caravan is then connected to the grid. So it’s possible that faults can back feed into the grid
The 15A connection being the trigger for falling under the standard is clear enough. But it seems that these new regs are deliberately targeting battery systems rather than battery systems being unintended collateral damage. Given the battery is most likely 12/24/48v it'd be hard pressed to back feed a voltage or current through the mains charger (it's only connection to the grid) that would adversely impact the grid which runs at kv. If back feed was the concern, putting the batteries outside or in a box won't avoid that. It still means that if there is no 15A connection to grid, you can have the battery anywhere you want but if there is a 15A grid connection the battery needs to be sealed/vented. Seems a bit strange.
@@DW-10I believe that the regulation should apply to both and it's likely to catch up eventually..
LiFePO4 chemistry technically doesn't burn but the gases released in the event of thermal runaway are toxic and include plenty of hydrogen which goes 💥
In Germany a guy that had LiFePO4 in his basement had his house turned into splinters and rubble yet there was no fire.. people that claim LiFePO4 chemistry is 100% safe, turn their noses up when they hear this and simply fob it off...
I'm under no impression that Lifepo4 batteries are 100% safe. In the event of thermal runaway is a sealed box with a 20mm vent port going to make a material difference?
@@DW-10 The regulators have to make a living sometimes 🤣 so they justify their existence by updating the regs..?
It would certainly help initially with the venting of the gases "outside" the space the people are in
Thanks so much for for helping us all on what we should be looking for and what we should think about when we upgrade on 4:19 what we already have. I’ll differently use your ‘SKT’ to get some itech lithium batteries that we can fit outside on the chassis. Thanks again and happy travels
Great explanation. Love the raw honesty.
Super informative. -- Question: I'm in the USA. We don't have a law like this at present. My question... I have an EcoFlow Delta Pro unit and put it inside my caravan, connected to solar panels on the roof. I have a Toyhauler caravan that's about 10 meters long. The back room is a garage, but we also sleep in there after we offload our toys, with the EcoFlow unit in the same space.
I didn't think LifeP04 had off-gassing issues that other batteries do. So I do not have my unit in an outside vented box. It just lives inside with us. Aside from the fan noise, do I need to worry about dangerous off-gassing or anything?
Thank you for quoting the actual regulations, too many people just repeat things they have heard without actually checking the regulations.
13:20 where charging equipment is a long way away from the batteries, makes me think are there units (or mods) where you have a battery voltage sense cable running from the charging unit to the batteries. This way battery charging voltage is measured directly at the battery, and the drop across the charging cable will be compensated for.
Good video 👌 As an ex Electrican & with decent (Lithuim Ion Cobalt & Li-Ion Phospate battery experience) i would also strongly suggest using a "Metal Battery box" enclosure (not aluminum, im not assuming you have used aluminum but just making others aware of this) and having the 20mm venting pipe also made from Metal. Do not recommend PVC !
If Li - Ion Phospate cell/cells (Lifepo4) do ever internally fail, yes there is no violent thermal runaway with shooting flames but the LifeP04 cells can be subject to "extreme tempertures" & extremly hot smoke/gassing when a cell faliure occurs meaning an Aluminum Enclosure could potentially melt or if using a PVC 20mm gassing vent pipe (for example), the pipe could also melt then catch on fire whilst trying to vent. I believe lining a metal battery box enclosure in Fibre cement boarding or other high temperture resistance products & using appropriate high temperture resistance adhesives would be highly beneficial. Using a 20mm "Metal conduit" with appropriate metal bends for venting purposes would also be encouraged. I mean at the end of the day its where the family sleeps & who needs a potential fire taken hold of ones caravan/camp trailer, potentially when everyones deep asleep in which this risk can be easily reduced in the planning/constructing stage. (As suggested above) Im loving the fact that your batteries are on the OUTSIDE of your living space. (Added safety for sure) Eg The Voltage Drop is so important in a extra low voltage (12V) installation. An Excellent point you shared 😊👍 Cheers for the upload 🍻
Note - As an example : i use a ammo can (fibre cement lined with high temperature adhesive & vented) when storing my R/C Lipo batterys. Same principle applies but obviously Lipo cells are far more unstable than Lifepo4 Chemistry.
Thanks Keelan. Your explanation was brilliant and saved us a shitload of coin, planning and keeping the faith in our manufacturer.
Non inhabitable ??? Whoops. lol
Don't forget people, an Arc Welder is 24v and upwards from 50A, A battery bank can supply hundreds of Amps at 12/24/36/48volts and up to 300v or 400+v for House type of Inverters.
Fault current ratings are used on industrial battery banks systems. Last one i installed was 9200A.
yeh too many people are unaware of the massive fault currents possible and the consequences of failure.
Yeh we commonly weld with around 100 amps, then conside even the average car battery will produce 300 or 400 amps short circuit.
Loved the video, but i would love more information.
I got a van I am doing and trying to sort out the electrical system.
Regarding the battery box,
How would you suggest adding a 20mm vent to the battery box?
Is there some flange & 20mm pipe combo that can be used?
And as for the gasketing the lid, how would you best achieve that?
Just silicon it down, or is there an ideal material it should be made of?
We swapped out our agms for the iTechworld batteries early last year, before the X range came in, and we still couldn't be happier. Twice the storage and a third of the weight. Your videos up to the Cape showed how resilient the batteries can be. Thank you legends.
@@noname-nd8ec ok, I d 10 t. Did you not pay attention to this and other videos about LiFePo4 batteries?
@noname-nd8ec can you please show us iTechworld batteries exploding? Thanks
Also did you even watch the video?
Are the definitions of habitable areas different in vans than in as5139? If you decide to put batteries under your bed do they have to be in a fire proof container?
I agree with pretty much everything I've heard up to the 15 minute mark, as far as I've listened so far. My query would be that the intention of the "not in a habitable space" clause is so that if the battery does go off, it isn't going to turn the living area into a raging inferno.
I could be wrong, but I dont think people understand what would be required to thermally contain a sizeable battery bank in thermal runaway. Sealing/gasketing is one thing, but firewalling is an entirely different thing. You may have a sealed compartment under a bed or lounge, but I bet you dollars to donuts, the first time one of these things goes off, it'll make a mockery of that "compliance". The temperature, burn time and non extinguishability of these products is a phenomenal. What are your thoughts?
AND it's not just Lithium that burns ..... good old lead acid will explode and burn under fault conditions.
No way I want to be sleeping on batteries.
I wonder if housing them in a metal case that if ignition occurs could be filled with water to submerge the batteries. Of course, the trouble then is the rest of the time, any water needs to easily escape to prevent rusting of the compartment.
@@geoffsmith82 That is a very bad idea. The Lithium would react with the water and create a mix of hydrogen and lithium oxide, which is highly explosive.
@@herzog1000 It is actually the recommendation for laptops on planes if they catch alight. To poor a bottle of water over the laptop.
Hi Keelan and thanks so much for your video on AS3001. My question is regarding the individually fused solar panels. I have 3 running into a junction box feeding to the solar controller. I have fused just before and the solar controller that I was told acts exactly the same as an isolation switch and then fused after to solar controller to the batteries. Hence the only way I can fuse each solar panel is on the roof by cutting in the fuse to each panel. If required I am happy to do that but my question is why is it that the suppliers don't fuse each at manufacture? In my case do I still need to fuse each to comply? Thanks again and I wish you safe travels. Elvio.
As a qualified Auto Electrician and Electrician. Many 12volt set ups should be using quality High Rupture Current (HRC) fuses. I do for my DCDC battery charger.
Yes, I wish to install a dcdc charger. I already have a relay for it from my main Lead Acid battery, so it is automatic... if that is allowed, I noticed now they are placing a switch on these devices that is a once only turn on for the device.
The problem is that anyone can bypass anything. I view that these devices are extremely difficult to open however I have a hacksaw blade and Zero electrical knowledge.
Boom 💥
SKT - Love these 12v vids Keelan, your adhd has really helped me learn so much more about it! Cheers mate
It's called corporate control.
It's called learning from experience, written down.
With thr new regs in mind, Do you only recomed blade fuses inside rhe van and do you have an isolation switch before the fuses or after fuses from tour solar panels?
I get the itech are submersible in water however your wiring over time corrode wirh outdoor batteries especially doijg beach runs, i have seen it in my wiring with my Urban built hydrid.
As another fellow electrician i dont agree it is perfectly safe to sleep on top of a large storage system..there are other faults that can happen besides a lithium fire. Simple loose connections could cause i fire ride under neath you. I would not even have my control gear under my bed.
I've seen a video where an overheating lithium cell vented, it's basically like a bomb going off, shrapnel everywhere, it's not just a fire risk.
So you can sit over the massive storage battery when you driving, but you can't sleep over it? If you would get trapped in the car after the crash and battery pack would get damaged it is still legal.
@@LookMaintenance Did I miss something, where does it say it's illegal to sleep over power cells?
@@altvampListen.
I have 2 115ah AGM batteries and 1 160w solar panel I am going to add another 1 but not sure if I should add up to 4 total or 2.
I have a enerdrive 40+ charger, and a 3000w inverter that can run the A/C or tv during the day for those roadside stops.
I want the solar setup to be just above enough to keep batteries topped up and the voltage drop us not a worry as the inverter is right next to the batteries.
Also series or parallel for the added panels?
Putting the lithium batteries outside isn't such a great idea in New Zealand and probably if you are a ski bunny in Aussie. You guys will well know what temperatures we have here in NZ from your experience 2 years ago. And you will also know the issues lithium has charging at below zero temperatures and potentially the damage that can occur to the battery. The battery location is very much a horses for courses situation.
For sure! I can understand that! I like to think I’m well versed to give advice for Australian conditions but I am definitely not scared to say I have no idea about NZ
@@SarahandKeelanTravelsfor cold temperatures, you can get batteries with internal heating elements in LFP and NCA chemistries - we've been using them in 24V applications for ages.
Do you need a lithium battery in a sealed Metal box in camper trailer/caravan/4wd?
AS standards documents should be free to access, paying to see what the 'laws' are. Is bull.
There's these places that owe their existence to James Silk Buckingham, MP for Sheffield. He began these places in 1835.
These places have shelves and various reading materials as well as computers.
@@interestedobserver587 are you trying to say you can access via a library? If so, library doesn't have all and physical access is limited. Also the pilot online program isn't available for all.
@@MxODraconis Wrong. You access the standards via a platform that the libraries have access too. The same platform allows access to DIN, IEC, EN etc.
@@interestedobserver587 you have to access via their 'reading room' for library access. I'm more than happy to be proven wrong, but show me where I can access the AS/NZS 3000:2018 for free.
@@interestedobserver587 happy to be wrong, but show me where I can access AS/NZS 3000:2018 for free. Without having to go to a 'reading room' in a library.
Hi Keelan. In a typical caravan electrical setup, what are the best spec solar panels to obtain? I see panels rated at 160 - 200 watts (which is what I currently have) but I have noted that the stated voltage can be 12v, 16v or 20+v. What voltage is best? Does it depend on the rated output of my BMS? My BMS has a stated 30amp max output. Cheers.
They are broadly Lithium Ion batteries the key two are Lithium-Ion - NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt - Older slightly more energy dense) and Lithium-Ion - LFP - Lithium Iron Phosphate. Both emit noxious fumes and if they happen to go into thermal runaway will still self-propagate. The chemistry change was primarily driven by the cost of Nikel and Cobalt as the NMC are more energy-dense.
Once again, you've made the "troubles" straightforward and easy to understand. Thanks
Thanks Keela . I've got 2 panels on the roof going to a regulator to AGM so there are no lithium issues, but do I still need to put fuses and circuit breaker into the system to be compliant? Van made in 2007!
Great video and i have learned a lot. My question is and as you stated the new rules in regards to the placement of lithium batteries inside of the caravan. What is the ruling in regards to a caravan that is 12 years old. I have a 2012 Jayco pop top caravan that i'm replaceing the 2 x 220 Ah AGM batteries that are now 6 years old and on there way out. I have just ordered one voltx 300 Ah lithium battery to replace the AGM's . All of the battery charging, solar controller, smart shunt ( all Victron and blue tooth to my phone ) fuseing and a small 300 watt 240 volt pure sign wave inverter ( this is now seldom used and mainly now for running my electric shaver ) All of this equipment lives under our bed in our caravan. I also now have 1000 watts of solar on the roof of the caravan.
I understand the for a new build and the rules that have to be followed, BUT what about a caravan that ( in my case ) is over 12 years old now.
Just got this video from RUclips algorithm I think this SKT channel should be SKT10
For 10/10 not BSing around like other videos I have seen.
Great work, I guess you just got another subscriber now.
Hi You said in an old video about solar that the flexible solar panels are efficient. Do you if the new 200 WATT 12 VOLT FLEXIBLE AND LIGHTWEIGHT HPBC SOLAR PANEL from Itechworld are good.
Can I put a lithium battery (replace agm)without changing my battery management system?.
4:49 those fridges with lithium batteries, does that mean they cannot be used internally also?
Thanks for the video. What about lithium power stations. Do they have to be sealed and vented? Thanks
Brilliant Keelan. Does this apply to carrying one of the Itech power stations in your vehicle? Many thanks 🌸
SKT Great video as always guys. Good explanation for those that are not electrically minded. Plain English is what is needed more within technical explanations, well done.
Does a lifepo4 battery that will be located below the bed in a seperate cavity in my campervan need to be housed in a separate box to be compliant?
When you say vented to the ambient air, does that mean a vent to the outside of the van, or can that just be a vent in the box enclosure, on the inside of the van? Thanks for clarifying!
Just on battery placement in a canopy. Did I understand it correctly I can legally mount it inside the canopy without any battery box as long as the canopy is vented due to canopy being inhabitable space?
Thank you Keegan - SKT. The vid was super interesting and informative. You said you were going to explain things in layman’s terms and you did. I am a complete novice and was able to understand what you were explaining. Absolute ripper segment. Thanks again.
Keelan - Wow! Talk about perfect timing. Last night I watched a video by Ronny Dahl about Dual Battery Systems ... "Most People Get This Wrong." and the gist I got was exactly what you said about locating the lithium batteries close to you charging system. Less wiring, distances and better efficiency.
What impresses me the most about SKT is your passion for the consumer and the challenge for manufacturers to think of us not just themselves, in fact I just setn a request to Urban Caravans for a quote to build us a rig. Thanks Mate.
I am a newbie. Have been watching your video love the down to earth and accurate info .
I have argued with people about fusing the solar input, many many times, this confirms exactly what I have been saying. Thanks for clearing it up.
Yeah I would never have done it, but about to set up a system in my campervan. And will be definitely doing it, as well as isolating each component.
It's always been the rule if you parallel more than 3 panels/strings.
Geniune question what is the purpose of the individual fuses to each solar panel? The panel is obviously never going to generate more power than is it rated for, do they sometimes develop an internal short circuit when they fail?
What about when you put the solar in parallel to increase the voltage so you can lower the current and the cable size and get less voltage drop? Would you then have to add all the fuses on the roof in-between the panels?
You started by talking about 15A inputs. The input would go to 240v charger I am assuming. Any reg changes regarding 240v chargers or inverters? What about lithium in the back of a 200 landcruiser and in the back of sealed canopies. Do these new changes affect them as well. I have a ute canopy with a 15A input for my 240V charger. I have a lithium and dcdc/mppt in the canopy all fused and with isolators. I also have a whirlybird on top of canopy to keep the canopy cool. Am I complaint and safe? Regards Paul
Just a question. In relation to lithium installation complaint rules, for vans manufactured with already installed lithium batteries before the deadline of 18/11/2023, are those vans potentially at risk of voiding insurance if something were to happen due to something being installed incorrectly?
Great Video - I am wondering now about my dual batt setup.
The second battery is behind the 2nd row seats in a crew cab. Currently it is AGM. If I swap to LIFEPO4, is it legal??
Just a couple of solar / inverter / off grid questions if i may. (FYI 1. I'm a qualified Electronics technician and Electrical mechanic which allows me to do basic electrical work such as white goods. 2. Spent 40 years trained as a component level design and repair tech 3. Practical class teacher)
Q1. Solar - Have the latest standards re motorhomes and solar panels, mentioned the amount of panels and their configuration eg strings and series/parallel, and total Voc in a string, as one industry source led me to believe only 12v panels are max.
Q2. Over the last few years i have been designing an off grid setup for our bus using 48v battery system and an off grid high frequency inverter which means that i need solar panels in series producing 250vdc and 2.5kw. Is this still legal even though each panel will now be fused and an isolator installed?
Q3. Also have shore power inlet, and provision for a diesel generator. Btw, the inverter is a 5kw unit with provision to expand to 30kw by daisy chaining extra inverters. Being a three axle bus/motorhome, weight is no real concern. While arranging auto switching contactors to select between inverter mains input/shore power/ generator will this meet the new standards?
Q4. What the latest on the installation of solar panels on the roof, eg fixing and mounting.
If you re too busy or the chance this may be a "too hard basket case", I'll welcome any input you may have. Great work btw, awesome video. Cheers...
SKT. Thanks for another amazing educational video. Love learning from those who know 1st hand about the matter not just spouting nonsense
Very interest video, thanks for the info that was quite invaluable!
Stupid question, The rules only apply to connected batteries and only when you can hook up to mains power? Like a spare lifepo batttery under the bed does not apply for the rules? Our current van came out the factory in Aug '23 and im 90% sure there are no fuses on the solar panels anywhere and no isolation switch (there are fuses sitting on top of the batteries between the bmpro and the batteries, but nothing else that I have seen). So that would seem to be a little unlucky for me in many ways.
if I have 3 panels in series do I use 1 fuse or 3 as current in a series circuit doesn't change .
Great vid Keelan. Does the new regs apply to AGM batteries? I fully agree to the solar regs and will upgrade my van with fuses, but do I need to seal off the AGM battery?
Thanks so much for all the excellent info. Is the front boot a decent option for a new battery system?
Hey mate. Great video thank you. Quick question. Lithium battery in the tray of my Ford ranger with a fibreglass canopy. Does that need to be in a sealed box also?? Or because the canopy isn't habitable its okay??
Great info thanks. My question is if you have everything say under the bed or dinette, this includes chargers inverter etc that generate heat near your batteries and only vent to outside without allowing air flow in which i currently have things could get a little hotter than ideal for the batteries etc. any thoughts.
So, in summary, because I don't have a 240v input into my SUV LIFEPO4 battery system ( the batteries are inside the vehicle) I am not required to gaskets seal and vent my batteries?
Hey thanks for the no BS video. I have a Jayco 21.5 Silverline Outback van that is really struggling to keep 2x120 amp AGM batteries charged and they’re only 2 months old.
After looking at this video I’m starting to get the impression I need to go back to the drawing board. This video is a great starting point - cheers
So does a car cabin qualify as an inhabited space I was going to mount a battery behind the back seat?
Great video Keelan. Some great tips and info. Wish other RUclipsrs would give simple and concise information you do. It is said, that if you can make a complicated subject simple then you know your subject, which you do. Keep it coming SKT.
SKT at 19 minutes, thanks for the information as I have just recently updated to lithium myself, cheers
Perfect logical explanation Keelan. Thanks. Same advice applies if using AGM re overcoming voltage drop. Battery near charging gear.
Dumb question. The circuit breaker is in place before the individual fuses from each or after?
I would assume after?
Thanks for this. My current lead acid batteries are mounted outside the caravan in battery boxes. If I upgrade my batteries to lithium, do I also need to comply with the other laws that are unrelated to the batteries? e.g.: do I need to individually fuse the solar panels to remain compliant?