BMW/Toyota Supra: Differences between the 335hp and 382hp versions of the B58TU engine

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  • Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024

Комментарии • 88

  • @anthonyh958
    @anthonyh958 2 года назад +7

    This is absolutely fantastic in-depth knowledge. Well done 👍

  • @vollcare4076
    @vollcare4076 2 года назад +7

    Great work
    On M240 G42 you can also order such kind of extra cooling package as an option,
    maybe that’s the same you were showing

  • @darylmorse
    @darylmorse 10 месяцев назад +2

    I came back for another look. You should consider using an ad blocker so your browser isn't cluttered with ads. I recommend ublock origin. You mentioned the heatshield. The reason it's only on the engine with the external exhaust manifold is because on the engine with the internal exhaust manifold, all of the exhaust heat is retained inside the cylinder head. This places more load on the cooling system. Probably explains why it also has a higher rated cooling fan.

  • @peterkukolik8402
    @peterkukolik8402 2 года назад +2

    Thank you, You keep us OCDwise happy.

  • @MrRad21
    @MrRad21 2 года назад +2

    Thanks for taking the time to explain these differences

  • @sly9263
    @sly9263 2 года назад +14

    A key difference is that many of the 382hp B58s consume 1 quart of oil every 700-1,000 miles

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  2 года назад

      Hi, yes, based on owners reports it appears that some B58B30B / B58B30O1 engines have higher than average oil consumption. But the root cause is unknown at the moment.

    • @magnagaurd
      @magnagaurd 2 года назад +4

      17k on my B5830O1 and no oil consumption so far

    • @sly9263
      @sly9263 2 года назад +1

      @@magnagaurd month/year manufacture date and vehicle?

    • @magnagaurd
      @magnagaurd 2 года назад +3

      03/19 date code M340i in florida. Though i will say my average MPG is 32, i know a lot of people burning oil drive the wheels off of theirs. I also change my oil every 5k

    • @sly9263
      @sly9263 2 года назад

      @@magnagaurd the 330hp ones don't burn oil, regardless of driving condition, so it's a design/tolerance failure for sure tho. I'll check mine later

  • @darylmorse
    @darylmorse 11 месяцев назад +1

    Great video. Thanks for sharing it.

  • @kosditrade
    @kosditrade 2 года назад +2

    Good work, thanks!

  • @tomli123001
    @tomli123001 2 года назад +1

    good dedication.

  • @garethmorris2042
    @garethmorris2042 3 месяца назад +1

    For the B58C, specifically in a 2020 540i, is there a recommendation you might make to help the cooling in some way? I don't plan to track the car so don't foresee it overheating however with a tune I want to make sure I preserve the longevity of the engine. Thanks

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  3 месяца назад

      For a stage 1 tune and not planning to track the car, I think the stock cooling system might suffice, so ensure both your expansion tanks have the correct coolant and at max level. You might consider upgrading intercooler and supplementary heat exchangers depending on your driving style and average outside air temperatures.

  • @drew42025
    @drew42025 2 года назад

    Appreciate this video. Thank you.

  • @davidhenry4265
    @davidhenry4265 Год назад +2

    Can I swap a 6 port engine into a 2 port 2020 Supra?

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  Год назад

      I believe it should be possible.

    • @theunkownmr.562
      @theunkownmr.562 Год назад +1

      Just swap the heads like Papadakis did for their 1200hp Supra.

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  Год назад

      @@theunkownmr.562 when he first built the engine he used the 2 port head, is this something he did later on?

    • @theunkownmr.562
      @theunkownmr.562 Год назад +1

      @NoBrainerTalk yes they did, and they were able to.unlock an additional 300hp switching to a six port head off of a 2021 Supra.

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  Год назад

      @@theunkownmr.562 Nice.

  • @borla4491
    @borla4491 2 года назад +1

    Thanx for clearing this up,......them "BMW Zupra" lames think that other BMWs have the same B58 as the Supra MK5 A90....when those other B58s are not the same!

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  2 года назад +2

      Indeed there are three types of B58 out there right now, the 1st gen B58 is not found in the Supra.

  • @GrandTheftAutoFans1
    @GrandTheftAutoFans1 6 месяцев назад +1

    So one of the things is that the cooling is 1000W in the 335HP engine and that the 382HP uses air to cool. Although I don't really understand most of the engineering terms in this video, I can't help but be confused how the 335HP engine isn't slightly better? I mean I can see that it has a better focus on the fuel economy but what is the problem with up-tuning the 335HP to 382HP or even more in the long term?

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  6 месяцев назад +1

      Hi, the 335HP engine retains more heat through the exhaust manifold being integrated into the cylinder head, and is therefore able to warm up faster which increases efficiency (and increased efficiency means less fuel burnt i.e. lower emissions). However this design is also less able to dissipate heat and therefore in high demand conditions where the cooling systems (intercooler, engine coolant and radiator, aux radiator, etc) are unable to keep component temperatures to within limits, the engine will reduce performance to safeguard the engine. The 382hp engine will not retain the same heat, and will also dissipate the heat more easily compared to the 335hp engine, hence in high demand situations is less likely overall to reduce performance to protect engine. Power can be increased on both engines with a stage 1 tune. Hope this helps.

    • @GrandTheftAutoFans1
      @GrandTheftAutoFans1 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@NoBrainerTalk thanks for the reply but I always thought if I tune the engine it will break eventually otherwise the factory would have done it to up sell the car? If I give it better cooling somehow which idk how, does that mean I can up tune it to 382 safely?

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  6 месяцев назад +1

      @@GrandTheftAutoFans1 The manufacturers themselves sometimes detune engines so they can increase power later on with extra cost. In the case of the 1st gen B58, BMW offered the M-Performance Power and Sound Kit, which with a BMW tune and no engine mods increased power from 335hp to 360hp, i.e. showed that the 1st gen B58 was always capable of 360hp stock but was tuned at 335hp in almost all applications for commercial reasons. Alot of commercial reasons affect the chosen power output, e.g. where does the car come in the line up, how does it affect the next model, how close do we want it to be to the M-Cars, etc. Generally the B58 has now earned a reputation of being an extremely robust design, with internals and cooling systems able to handle much higher power than stock, therefore a very large number of owners installed stage 1 tunes without issues.

  • @thomasyang993
    @thomasyang993 2 года назад +2

    Thanks for the video! One question, based on the information you showed, a swap from C to B is possible?

  • @Al-dl6lq
    @Al-dl6lq 2 года назад +2

    Out of the 3 different B58 variants, which one has the highest tuning capability? Is reliability a factor between these 3 variants?

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  2 года назад

      The tuning potential is extremely high for both engines, there are 1st gen B58s with 700+ whp and one (heavily modified) B58C produced 1000hp. I'm not sure if there is a definitive answer on what variant can cope with so much more power for long term.

    • @MasterCarguy44-pk2dq
      @MasterCarguy44-pk2dq 9 месяцев назад

      None of these engines can handle over 600 crank hp/500 whp stock, for very long, especially not if you plan to put 35k-50k miles on it. Upgraded positions, rods, crank, etc are needed. Note, I didn't say they can't handle it, I said reliability is key and thus said what I said.

  • @Shirley_Jorge
    @Shirley_Jorge Год назад +1

    what about the new b58 in the x7 with port injection does it have the single chain like the tu or the original dual chain like the first gen b58?

  • @Oni181
    @Oni181 Год назад +1

    where can you see in which cars the tu version is? i couldnt find infos about that

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  Год назад

      Check out my video ruclips.net/video/zY0ZrSjrgWs/видео.html and go to about 2 minute mark. There's also a detailed list on wikipedia, I would Google "B58 wiki" and you can see the list there.

  • @monicahuynh1689
    @monicahuynh1689 2 года назад +2

    Hello NoBrainerTalk, do you have BMW Electric Water Pump Bleeding Procedure for this engine? There are two electric water pumps and two coolant expansion tanks.

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  2 года назад +1

      The sequence for the the intercooler coolant (low temperature) circuit:
      - Open expansion tank cap.
      - Fill up the intercooler coolant expansion tank to between minimum and maximum level.
      - Turn on power in the car (do not start engine)
      - Turn on headlights
      - turn on hazard lights
      - Turn on A/C in manual mode (not auto)
      - Set A/C to max temperature on both driver and passenger side, but lowest output setting (in most BMWs 1 of 7 I believe).
      - Press accelerator pedal for 15 seconds to activate the auxiliary electric pump (you may hear the electric motor start before the 15 seconds mark. When electric motor starts, it should be OK to let go of accelerator pedal.
      - Once it starts it should take 10-15 mins to complete cycle.
      - If coolant level falls below minimum, top up.
      - Optionally do the process again (sometimes at second attempt also drops below minimum), or proceed to Close cap.
      The sequence for the the engine coolant (high temperature) circuit:
      - Open expansion tank cap.
      - Fill up the engine coolant expansion tank to between minimum and maximum level.
      - Put on seatbelt.
      - Turn on headlights
      - Turn on power in the car (do not start engine)
      - Press the start-stop button three times rapidly.
      - Turn on A/C in manual mode (not auto)
      - Set A/C to max temperature on both driver and passenger side, but lowest output setting (in most BMWs 1 of 7 I believe).
      - Press accelerator pedal for 15 seconds to activate the turbo electric pump (you may hear the electric motor start before the 15 seconds mark). When electric motor starts, it should be OK to let go of accelerator pedal.
      - Once it starts it should take 10-15 mins to complete cycle.
      - If coolant level falls below minimum, top up.
      - Start engine, the car will automatically start bleeding procedure with the mechanical water pump.
      - Rev engine to 2500-3000rpm for 10 seconds
      - Allow it to return to idle for 20 seconds
      - Repeat 9 more times revving and idling.
      - If coolant level falls below minimum, top up.
      - Optionally do the process again (sometimes at second attempt also drops below minimum), or proceed to Close cap.

    • @monicahuynh1689
      @monicahuynh1689 2 года назад

      @@NoBrainerTalk Hello NoBrainer Talk, Thank you for the instruction coolant bleeding procedure. I have tried on both processes, and both methods work for the (Low-temperature circuit) only, not the (high-temperature circuit.) I am driving a 2018 X3 M40i with a B58 engine, and it has a mechanical water pump for (high-temperature circuit.), I wonder if it may not work for this coolant bleeding procedure. Do you have any suggestions?

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  2 года назад

      @@monicahuynh1689 Hi, it's unlikely but it's possible for the X3 M40i there might be a different procedure. But I believe maybe the way I wrote the high temp procedure might be resulting in a mistake. After you put on your seatbelt, press the start button 3 times rapidly (on, off, on, time between each press about half a second). So don't press the button once and then another 3 times rapidly. The way I wrote the sequence I feel it's possible you might be turning the power on, and then pressing start-stop button 3 times (a total 3 presses is required, not 4 presses). If it doesn't work again, this time leave your headlights in auto and try again. If that doesn't work, then there is something different about the X3 M40i...

    • @monicahuynh1689
      @monicahuynh1689 2 года назад +1

      @@NoBrainerTalk Hi , Thank you, I did press start button 3 times. But still not working. The new generation x3 is press start button 3 times to on accessory and diagnostic mode. I have been searching around and haven’t seen any one done the coolant bleeding procedure on the X3 m40i .

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  2 года назад

      @@monicahuynh1689 It's very interesting I have to say. A BMW dealer would use the vacuum fill method, bit it's worth asking the local BMW dealer for the DIY bleeding procedure of the high temperature circuit. It's very frustrating, I wish I was there to see in person what is happening.

  • @hauskamotors
    @hauskamotors Год назад +1

    So the B58 have 335hp (20) and B58H have 382hp (21-23)?

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  Год назад

      Negative, only the B58B30O1 / B58B30B has 382 hp. The B58B30M1 / B58B30C and some versions of the B58B30M0 / B58B30A have 335hp. Other versions of the B58B30M0 / B58B30A have 322hp and 360hp. The B58B30M2 has 374hp.

  • @Cola99967
    @Cola99967 Год назад +1

    My 5 series 45e has B30C, and its downtuned, but how much it normally makes? and what do you think, would it run normally if I’d remap to standard 40i tune?

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  Год назад

      The 545e is fitted with a significantly detuned version of the 540i's B58C, which produces just 286hp instead of 335hp. However, combined with the electric motor, the total output of 394hp is higher than the standard 540i. I don't know enough to say for sure, but I believe (and could be mistaken) that the 545e is fitted with a standard B58C meaning the internals (pistons, rods, bearings, crankshaft, block, cylinder head, etc) are all the same. So the engine could be re-tuned to produced standard hp (335). Moreover the B58C can produce around 400hp with a stage 1 tune (dyno results vary and some are just too high to be realistic), so if the internals are the same there's again no reason the B58C in the 545e could not manage to produce the same stage 1 hp as any other B58C. Certainly there seem to be 500+ hp 545e examples out there with stage 1 tune only, so it seems adding a stage 1 tune is totally feasible and works OK with the electric motor to give total hp near M-Car figures. However, the fact it is a proper plug in hybrid should give some cause for pause, I don't know if the reason BMW detuned it is purely for emissions, or if the system as a whole cannot handle the extra power (more experience is needed if this damages the system). Also not sure if the ECU/DME needs to be removed and sent for retuning i.e. if it requires unlocking on bench.

    • @Cola99967
      @Cola99967 Год назад +1

      @@NoBrainerTalk Thank you mate. I have had faulty headlight(laser) after only 20k km, and had to replace the whole unit, so now Im kind of scared to tune it as It would void the warranty😓

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  Год назад

      @@Cola99967 I don't think you can void a new headlight warranty with an engine tune, but dealers (like insurance companies) will try whatever they can to reduce their costs.

  • @SamuelAlaniz-bu7uq
    @SamuelAlaniz-bu7uq 25 дней назад +1

    Are they both same same bare block part number? Got a 22’ m240 with bad block want try swap in a 21’ 540 bare block

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  25 дней назад

      I believe they use different P/Ns (540i i.e. B58C is P/N 11111025308 and M240i i.e. B58B is P/N 11111025307) but I can't tell you how different they are, and if they can be used interchangeably. What went wrong with the M240i?

    • @SamuelAlaniz-bu7uq
      @SamuelAlaniz-bu7uq 24 дня назад +1

      @@NoBrainerTalkmy motor was flooded so block was toast, compared pictures of the lower block of the c and b, they look the exact same and have the same oil and coolant passages and had a few people tell me they are interchangeable but just not sure since part numbers are different

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  24 дня назад

      @@SamuelAlaniz-bu7uq Hmmm, the two engine variants use different pistons and compression ratio I believe, so it might be something to do with that. I believe there's a good probability you can use the B58C block with the B58B without issues, but not sure how you get a definitive answer whether they are fully and freely interchangeable. It might be you are the first to take the risk and let us know how it goes? Sounds like it would make a very interesting RUclips video!

  • @pantiesgonewild358
    @pantiesgonewild358 2 года назад +2

    2 port vs 6port injection

  • @VaderA90
    @VaderA90 2 года назад +1

    Part 2!

  • @andyor3114
    @andyor3114 2 года назад +2

    Can you make comparison for B58 on X5 45e and 40i and M40i

  • @testoviron6277
    @testoviron6277 2 года назад +3

    So basicly the tuning potential of both engines is the same ?

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  2 года назад +4

      Well, if there is different compression ratio and different temperature dissipation/retention mechanics, then technically the engines probably have different limits.

    • @testoviron6277
      @testoviron6277 2 года назад +1

      @@NoBrainerTalk so which one would you choose for Tuning? G30 540ix or M340ix ?

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  2 года назад +1

      @@testoviron6277 I think it depends if you mean for straight line drag racing or track use. The B58B30M1 with its compression ratio has shown slightly greater potential for tuning, but will suffer earlier power reduction for overheating. The B58B30O1 will keep the power longer in sustained track use due to less emphasis on emissions. I think coupled with the oil air heat exchanger (S33TA), the M340ix + S33TA + stage 1 tune, would be my weapon of choice.

    • @testoviron6277
      @testoviron6277 2 года назад +1

      @@NoBrainerTalk I would like to get 540ix with stage2 to daily driving but i don't want to overheat the engine. Sometimes I like to run with someone from lights ;p and That stage2 540ix has 3.5 0-60 what is incredible. I saw in a comment below that m340ix Got a Oil conumption what is unacceptable for me. Intresting is Can I put S33TA (That m340ix mod) to the B58 from 540ix ? That would be great to Have 540ix with S33TA, custom exhaust, downpipe and stage 2 ohh

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  2 года назад +2

      @@testoviron6277 Hi there, I think you will be very happy with 540ix with custom exhaust, dp and stage 2 tune. The 5-series is one of the best looking models BMW makes, better looking than 3 series, in my humble opinion. To overheat one of these engines, you need to track the car (prolonged use of the engine at high revs). For spirited drives every so often and a dash off the traffic lights every now and again, this is not going to overheat the engine. Some B58B30O1 engines are experiencing higher oil consumption, although BMW claims it's within acceptable limits. Not all owners are experiencing this, and the root cause is unknown. It might be related to the way the engine was run-in. To be honest, increased oil consumption can have a benefit, in that ongoing supply of fresh oil is beneficial to the engine. Engine oil that sits in the engine for two years is going to be alot filthier and degraded, and will have lost some of its ability to lubricate and cool. S33TA is not an option for the 540i. The engine components related to S33TA are theoretically able to be installed with the B58B30C (no reason why they can't), but someone has to determine where the radiator can be installed on the 5-series chassis. There will be no provisions for the radiator, it will need some work to figure out a place where the flow of air will be sufficient, and will not be at risk of damage. I think it's doable, you would need to order the radiator and the mounting brackets and check on the car where it might go. The oil lines might need to be lengthened or shortened depending on the location. If you are buying the car new, all this customisation work will of course void the warranty.

  • @MasterCarguy44-pk2dq
    @MasterCarguy44-pk2dq 9 месяцев назад

    And in this day of uncle joey in office pushing strict epa, no mod is legal anymore, not even a air filter swap. This all started when uncl joey was a vp. Modd atvypur own risk.

  • @TheGnarTube
    @TheGnarTube 2 месяца назад +2

    The audio from this video is the second best ive ever heard, right behind ruclips.net/video/7Iinv3Dvprs/видео.html

  • @MasterCarguy44-pk2dq
    @MasterCarguy44-pk2dq 9 месяцев назад

    Odd, both these engines have the aane compression ratio according to bmw.

  • @onlycars_za
    @onlycars_za 2 года назад +1

    The difference in cats is probably why the 2021 supra is quiter

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  2 года назад +1

      Maybe, although they both seem to feature 700 cells per square inch cores based on the limited information I could find. I will probably make a part 2 video, as there was just too my information to discuss, and realOEM took alot of time.

    • @darylmorse
      @darylmorse 10 месяцев назад

      The difference in cats is because the turbos are different and the engines have different horsepower ratings.

  • @shahin5025
    @shahin5025 Год назад

    what does the 2023 440i has in it?

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  Год назад

      It should have the B58B30O1 (aka B58B30B) engine.

  • @UNKNOWN-zb3qm
    @UNKNOWN-zb3qm Год назад +1

    Did you record the audio in your shower??

    • @NoBrainerTalk
      @NoBrainerTalk  Год назад

      Sure did. You can hear me drop the soap somewhere in the middle of the video. 🤣🤣🤣

    • @UNKNOWN-zb3qm
      @UNKNOWN-zb3qm Год назад +1

      @NoBrainer Talk great video, but I had to say it :)

  • @patrizioblackburn1583
    @patrizioblackburn1583 2 года назад

    😆 pքɾօʍօʂʍ