UPDATE: they now sell a hardened hub for $16 at bmikarts.com . So if you have one with a sheared key you can now fix it, I did just that. Update on the Hilliard Extreme Duty, these clutches will eventually fail. They shear off the built in key. I've heard from many people who have used these clutches on their Phatmoto"s and sooner or later they fail. Its to bad, because they are pricey clutches and when they work they work well and are smooth, but they break. I contacted the sales rep. at Hilliard and he said, "Our clutches are too good for the low horse power engines (meaning 2.5 to 3 hp)." He says the engines cycle off and on to much and that causes the key to get hammered and break. Well I don't buy it, these clutches should not break. I told him the cheap Chinese clutches slip, heat up and grab and don't work smooth. He said, "That's why our clutches break because they work too good." I told him, I won't be buying or recommending his clutches any more and I'll be buying Max Torque from now on.
Thank you very much your videos helped me not have any problems. I had to fix just about everything you talked about when I got my Phatmoto all terrain including the air filter that was cracked.
Thanks for watching, I don't have a All Terrain, but the Rover is very similar. Head over to the facebook group especially dedicated to Phatmoto's, you'll find much info on repairs and mods, especially the All Terrain. Phatmoto (Builds/Mods & Info)
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles I've been reading before buying the Phatmoto so I am interested in joining the FB group. The problem is that my computer has a defect on the screen and is not allowing me to answer the last question. Can any of you help me in?
I can't wait to be able to do this to my Phatmoto. I have been seriously struggling with everything on this bike ever since I got it. I see the nice links at the bottom of the comment from @Ivan Davila - very nice thank you. I will be purchasing one of those with a new chain and the Hilliard clutch. Just have to save up a bit.
Cool.. i did have it figured out right. Was unsure. About to check for washers now.. And as for tightening it up i jerk it seems to work fine. Just put wrench on there tighten as far as you can till it spins than jerk hard fast a few times this works for me
Sorry its a old video, close to 4 years old. I do have 2 or 3 more newer videos where I do show oiling the bushing. See: "Phatmoto Oh No, another clutch video" also see : Phatmoto, Oil that clutch bushing, its easy" and "Phatmoto Oil your centrifugal clutch (easy) how to"
Update, Update, Update, This is a very good clutch and is smooth etc. The problem is the built in key will shear off sooner than later, its not if it will happen but when it will happen. You are better off buying a Max Torque clutch. They seem to hold up well. Yes, there seems to be a design flaw in the Hilliard that as you throttle on and off it puts undue pressure on the key and it fails. Hilliard says you can buy a heat treated and hardened hub for about $16.00 but I'm not going to throw good money at it. For what they cost Hilliard should use a improved hub and maybe they can keep some customers.
Got mine on.. and had a idea.. The cover didn't seem to go over the clutch the same so i took some washers and put them behind cover infront of motor this makes it fit better and opens it up for more air flow.
New news on the Hilliard Extreme Duty clutch, BMIKarts.com has the 5/8 bore heat treated hub replacement part for this clutch. If you had one that sheared on you because of the weak original hub. You can buy a replacement for $16.95, just pop your shoes and springs on the new hub and you have a very good reliable clutch.
My Hilliard clutch vibrates something terrible before engaging. I'm getting rid of it. I hear everyone talking about how smooth it is. I wouldn't know. I'm going to try the Max Torque.
I made this video 2 years ago, the only Hilliard clutch available then in the 5/8 bore was the Extreme Duty, it was only available with the powdered metal hub, very soft and prone to shearing. The Hilliard clutch that Phatmoto uses is a very good clutch, it has a heat treated, hardened hub which is not prone to shearing. It also has the shoes from the Blaze race clutch. I've used all types of clutches from the very cheapest Chinese to very expensive. When you say vibrates, does that mean the clutch tries to engage agressively, causing whats known as clutch chatter. The Max Torque is a heavy shoe clutch with whats known as a garter spring, its a good American clutch but no where near as good as the Hilliard. When my clutch starts to"chatter" or get grabby or agressive it usually means I need to oil the bushing or help it out with a quick shot of WD 40 in the shoes. Usually mine rarely needs it because I use a turbine oil designed for bushings or any thing that spins a lot. Some of that oil gets inside the drum and gives me just enough slip or "co efficient of friction" to work very well. I have 2 Chinese, 3 Hilliard, and 1 Max Torque clutches, all work, but some better than others. A lot of Phatmoto owners and motorized bike owners main complaint is with the clutch, some more than others. Having used all three, Chinese Max Torque, Hilliard tthe Hilliard performs the best for me.
@@patriotmedia2388 You might want to assemble a small tool kit, a patch kit and maybe a spare tube, along with a hand pump. Maybe a spare master link for chain, a spare accelerator cable and anything you can think of that might break or work loose while on your journey. If you upgrade a few bolts, chains, and do your preventative maintenance like repacking the wheel bearings and JS bearings etc. you should be able to do that commute easily.
That 10 tooth Hilliard clutch versus the stock 11 tooth clutch. The Hillyard should have faster take off and of course a aftermarket Hilliard a much better clutch. I'm definitely going to put some holes in my cover hopefully sad cover doesn't end up cracking because fat Moto probably doesn't even have these covers available if it does. Kind of like the wire muffler guard that cracks and falls off nobody has a muffler guard. I was thinking holes in this side cover would sling grease on you but it would miss your leg if it did at all. I've got to get me an aftermarket clutch I might go with that one that accepts the 415 chain I think I saw it on another one of your videos somebody added in the comment section.
I didn't notice any more take off speed, but did notice a much smoother start with no clutch chatter and grabbing. The holes I put in my guard seem to help cooling the clutch and I really don't notice any oil slinging out. I do clean the inside on a regular basis. I believe Max Torque makes a 415 clutch
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles thanks, that back big sprocket on the drive 415 chain side they should have put a ledge on the wheel. So the sprocket can rest and take most of its weight on the Wheel. so it's not just the bolts holding it on. My bolts started to wiggle out so I put blue Loctite on them to help. Sort of like a factory wheel on a car you have the center support in the middle of the wheel riding on the hub. taking most of the weight and the lug nuts just hold it against the Hub. Can you pedal through your two stroke motorized bike with the engine off easier than the fat Moto with the engine off?
Thanks, Beau I appreciate the info I havve had my bike over three months and I could not ride it for almost 2 months, The bike should of never been shipped to me or any one else for that matter, It was damaged from the gate when I was unboxing the bike I noticed the large sprocket on the jack shaft had hammer marks all over the side of it and when I checked i could see the sprocket was bent to hell and back,I told them at gas bike and they played stupid every time I would try running the bike I would get that loud squeal then the engine would kick out ,the wanted videos of this and that and pictures of the greese I was using they said it was the clutch and I told it was the large sprocket it was causing most of the problem they sent me a dirty used clutch i did not even try it ougt i tried pulling the large sprockett off , It took me two days of pounding and try differnt pullers to get the shaft and sprocketts off I had to beat it out they had mushroomed the shaft so bad that it did not want to come off ,so after many back and forths with those guys, They sent me a brand new shaft and sprocketts I then noticed when they welded the bearing house on it ius 20 degree slant and no matter what I do I can never get both sprocketts lined up, It was a flawed Bike from the start , I told them but they dont even reply back about it I did get the bike working halfway decent but still having problems trying to smooth out the ride, But iI may never be ablle to acomplish that will see, Thanks Steve
Steve, it looks like gasbike screwed you royal, they have a bad reputation of not standing behind their products and then no customer service. I was lucky I was one of the first to receive a bike because I was like the third person to buy on the pre-sale back on Nov. 3rd, 2018. I assume they made sure the first bikes had some quality control and were at least use able. Like most Chinese produced crap you roll the dice as to getting a product that isn't total junk and unuseable. But it goes back to gasbike they won't spend the money sending back bikes to China that are super defective and making the manufacturer supply ones that are good. I hope you can make it work at least good enough to enjoy it. I was thinking of buying a second one, but have deceided to buy a frame and build one up from parts. Good luck it sounds like you will need it.
First of all Beau I can't find that Max torque clutch for the 415 chains anywhere I am still looking where fif you find it at? if I can not get this bike somewhat lined out, and they drag their feet and do not want to give me a new frame I font have a problem taking them to court at least I can ask to get paid for the labor I put into before I was even able to ride it , Im sure you read there return policy they pretty much wash there hands on anything including paying to return the item then they stipulate all these dos, and dont's but I have a really strong case against them if they push me to it , Will see they had sent me a new clutch and they sent me a used and extremely dirty clutch I was shocked not so much it was used but they sent it to me dirty as hell, I actually cleaned and greased it dor them and sent it back,
@@stevepl6198 Steve, they have a Max Torque 5/8 shaft, 415 chain, 10 tooth at gopowersports.com. The problem is they want $79.00 for it, which seems quite high. I also think I found one on ebay also, but you have to be careful they sell fake Max Torque clutches, according to the owner of Max Torque. I'm going to see if I can find one again, I'll let you know.
@@stevepl6198 I found one on BMIkarts.com also for $59.00 they have it listed as a 5/8 bore for bicycle chain, in the description they say its for a 415 chain.
Thanks for the tutorial. I ordered the same clutch off,open box,off of eBay from a private seller. I’m curious to know how it performs compared to the stock clutch.
I think you will like it. So far I've only had time to ride a mile or so, but it is very smooth on the start off and seems to respond to the throttle very fast. It still needs periodic oiling like any clutch but the quality and design is just better than the stock clutch. Let us know what you think when you get it installed.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles putting this aftermarket Hilliard clutch on did you just change the clutch and the chain? Did you go to a 40 or 41 chain?
Hello, I am looking to buy the Phatmoto bike soon but I have some questions about it. 1. Can I fit a different engine in it like a 100cc Honda GX or GXR120 series motor? 2. Do you consider this bike to be reliable for commuting to college everyday? 3 . Is it relatively good quality? Thank you for making these videos, very informative and helpful!
Hi, to answer your question #1, The Honda GX 100 and the GXR 120 should fit, you might need to modify the air cleaner or exhaust. Research the overall dimensions and compare to the Lifan 152f-3. Question #2 I would consider it to be semi reliable after you break it in and upgrade the brakes, tires, clutch and perform re-tighten bolts, loctite set screws etc. Question #3 The frame seems to be robust with extra gussets, the engine is of decent quality although under powered. The forks, tires, brakes, clutch are inferior and need upgrading. Gasbike sourced cheap Chinese parts to keep the cost of the bike low. This is just my opinion. I would buy this bike again.
Don’t buy this bike the customer service is not good they will make you build the bike yourself with no help can’t even return it without a lot of fees so no money back but adding money to return it
@@Thisisarab What's to build, mount a seat, handlebars, engine hook up a chain, kill switch put gas in and ride. My engine came with a damaged recoil starter, I emailed them sent a pic and in 4 days had a new one in the mail. These bikes as well as any kit bike requires some basic mechanical skills to assemble and maintain, if you don't have that you should not buy.
@@kevinmiller5510 Who have you heard you can expect various engine failures from? The engine is a 2.5 hp Lifan Chinese generic engine that basically is a standard industrial engine used in many applications. You can't buy factory direct Gasbike.net had them made to their specs.(cheap as they were) they are the factory) . If they sent you a repackaged box with a a defective product I'm with you on that. The clutch is a cheap piece of Chinese inferior product period. I'm still in amazement that people expect a $699 dollar motorized bike to be a $ 2,000 or $3,000 dollar bike and be of the utmost quality that it should be on the par of American quality. Jesus tits what do you think a $699 dollar American bike would look like. Its not going to happen at $699, double it and buy a Phantom bike, although I believe they have switched to all electric bikes because they see they can't compete with the the Chinese on motorized bikes. Phantom bikes are of great quality that start at at about $1,500. This is just my opinion, man so don't ---- with the jesus
@@kevinmiller5510 About 3 months ago when Phatmoto arrived a guy on one of threads had a leak at one of the welds. He fixed it by sanding and scrapping the small area on the weld, then JB Weld was put on allowed to dry and prresto no more leak, a small amount of touch up paint and no one knows. I've used J B Weld on gas tanks ,water pumps the stuff is top quality. Sure you should not have a leak but they happen. You need mech. know how to keep a $600 bike on the road, I constantly amfixing, lubing, tweaking on mine. If you want better realibility buy a $2,000 electric.
I swear by all your Phatmoto reviews and recommendations. You’re right when you say they’re great bikes that require the extra tinkering here and there to push them across the finish line. I was wondering if you had any advice regarding an issue I have with my clutch. I’ve contacted Phatmoto by email already, but the stock clutch on my All-Terrain seems to engage when the bike is on and idle, and leads to the eventual horrifying squealing & screeching. What is going on, and how do I mitigate the issue?
You have a dry clutch bushing, it needs to be oiled at regular intervals, every hour to every day to every 2 days etc. As it wears in and when it is oiled regular the intervals seem to decrease.
Please understand I no longer recommend buying this clutch, this video is for reference only on how to install it. if you buy one and it fails don't start cussing me out or threaten me. Buy a heat treated, hardened hub.
Hi Beau I was watching this video..should I change the clutch from the stock.? The 2024 model is supposed to come with hillard clutch.. I haven’t received bike yet but wondering if I should get something different
That video is 4.5 years old and was based on the 2019 Phatmoto Rover, when they first came out in 2019 the stock clutch was a cheap Chinese 415 chain clutch. They were problematic, but you could get them to work. Later in 2020/2021 model years Phatmoto upgraded the clutch to a Hilliard "Scorcher" American made clutch and those have been standard every since. Also the clutches now use a #35 chain. You only need one 415 chain to the rear wheel.
In the video I upgrade to a Hilliard ED Extreme Duty clutch, it also had issues with the key shearing off in the hub. That problem has been fixed. The new Phatmoto's come with a special clutch made for the Phatmoto. Myself and a friend from my FB group actually did the testing for HIlliard for Phatmoto to fine tune the springs and shoes for the bike.
@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles my 2023 Phatmoto has the hilliard (came with it), but after 4 rides the clutch is not disengaging when at idle. This causes the engine to bog and die when I come to a stop. I'm not sure what caused it or what to do about it. Should I start by taking it apart and cleaning/lubing it, or do you think it's shot and I should just get a max torque instead?
@@wesh388 If your clutch is new, it needs oiled at the clutch bushing, at frequent intervals. What I mean is it needs oiled a lot. Once it has sufficient oil, the intervals will be less. If the engine stalls at idle from clutch grabbing, the bushing needs oiled. The Hilliard that came with the bike is a superior clutch, it is easily maintained, easy to change springs, it has the lightened race shoes.
There is a lot of back and forth on the clutch and the chain, I have the same bike and the clutch is total trash, especially when you first take off the bike wants to hop from the clutch slipping, and engaging, So I know the Hillard extreme clutch 40/41 is what you every one recommends will that be an exact replacement as far as the fit goes for the chain and shaft and sprocket size, is there anything else I need to do or know Thanks Steve S
Hi Steve, the 5/8 shaft is the same but the 40/41 chain is wider than the stock 415H chain. The 36 tooth jackshaft sprocket is rather thin but the pitch (distance from tooth to tooth center) is the same, I"m running the 41 chain and have had no problems. If you buy the Hilliard Extreme you'll need to buy a 40/41 chain. There is another option to the Hilliard and its the Max Torque which you can buy with a 415H chain size, they are American made and offer good quality, in fact all the cheap Chinese clutches are a rip off of the Max Torque. Either one will cost you around $50, If you go with the Hilliard you'll need to buy chain or replace the jackshaft sprocket. I hope this wasn't to confusing. I'm eventually going to replace my jackshaft (36 tooth) sprocket with a better quality piece.
Maybe a dumb question but know that i made this mistake myself.. do you peddle during take offs? Do you Feather the throttle ease the throttle or just Max it back? You have to peddle during take offs and you have to ease it. Also its better if you hold it at around 2300rpms or higher dropping under that going back and forth kills the clutch fast the stock one anyway.. i burnt mine up in about 15hrs of running time
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles not sure what you mean, because i bought the 12 tooth 5/8 bore hilliard extreme duty clutch and the stock chain i have that came with the bike fits perfect and have been riding it several months now without any problems, my bike is the 2020 model so not sure if that was upgraded from the 2019 model but my chain fit perfectly and i think it is a 415 chain. Hey do you know the size of the thickest chain? The one that goes to the left rear sprocket?
@@adam_-adam The 2020 model uses a #35 chain and clutch stock, did you buy the Hilliard with a #35 chain or with a 40/41. The drive chain is a 415H, thats the inside gear that goes to the rear sprocket
If any of you guys are wondering about these centrifugal clutches. Which ones work better, which design is better, who makes a quality piece compared to a cheap Chinese with poor quality control and poor materials. Just check out this video, do a RUclips search - Hilliard Extreme Duty Clutch Benefits. You'll see why a American made clutch is superior and why they perform better.
@Rational Dreamer I'm with you on being a dream to ride compared to the cheap stock. One guy complained he lost 2 to 3 mph on the top end. But with the added take off power and hill climbing ability I would never put the stock clutch back on. No comparing the two clutches. The Hilliard is smooth no chatter, just a superior clutch, keep it lubed properly and enjoy.
The one I use is the extreme duty, 5/8 bore, it uses a 40/41 chain so the teeth on the clutch housing are wider so the stock 415H chain won't work I saw today on Amazon they have a Max Torque clutch that is a 10 tooth and uses the 415H stock chain, but it costs upwards of $65.00
@@BDNYCC If you are using stock Lifan 79.5 cc engine it's a 5/8" bore, which means the crankshaft is 5/8 do not buy any other size, concentrate on chain size 5/8 bore for stock engine
This bike is a 2019 so it is different than the 2020. Both have a 79cc Lifan engine and the clutch bore is 5/8. The 2020 from clutch to jack shaft is #35 chain. The 2019 from clutch to jack shaft is 415.
beau brummel I really cannot appreciate your response more! Thanks finally somebody answered. So I guess that I need the 5/8 #35 clutch. What is your opinion on Max Torque brand?
@@MJTechChannel The Max Torque is very good for these lower horsepower engines. They are the same design as the cheap Chinese stock unit. I should say the Chinese copied the Max Torque years ago. It is a garter spring type clutch which works well on these Phatmoto's stock. The Hilliard is very smooth and works well until the built in key shears off. If you change the springs in the Hilliard to black @$4 = $16. Then buy a heat treated hardened hub from them for another $16, you spend an extra $32. You might as well buy a racing clutch for that price, which is a waste on a low horse power motor. Go with the Max Torque for sure.
If you are buying a 2020 Phatmoto you might want to go over to facebook and join the Phatmoto(Builds/Mods) group there are 135 of us over there and there is tons of info on keeping the Phatmoto running and upgrading.
So I just installed my Hillard clutch tonight. I only rode it for a minute since it was dark and I was worried about hitting deer too. The takeoffs I made felt smoother than the stock clutch. Will I see any difference in top speed? The stock clutch is 11 tooth and this Hillard Extreme Duty is 10tooth. I don’t want to lose any top end! I’m wondering if the clutch sprocket change to 10 tooth will now make a difference in top speed?
Losing one tooth in the front is like adding 4 teeth to the rear. I haven't noticed that much drop off on top speed but have noticed more and quicker throttle response. The Hilliard clutch responds quicker which means less slippage, which means less heat in the clutch. Heat and slippage is what destroys a clutch, that's why the much cheaper Chinese clutch doesn't perform well.
The Hilliard clutch is American made and designed to deliver smooth, reliable performance, while keeping heat down. Heat is what destroys clutches. The extreme duty clutch is designed to handle up to 8 horse power. I can't see that stock clutch doing that. I wish I could have afforded their Inferno, Inferno Flame, kart racing clutch.
If you don't think the Hilliard clutch is any good, I guess the stock clutch could go back on. But the problems with it make my bike unrideable, I can barely get a mile before it seizes up and stalls my engine. With the stock clutch I would have to keep the rpm's high at a stop sign which just puts more heat in it and makes it worse.
I lost 2-3mph on my top speed by going with a 10 tooth Hillard extreme duty clutch. It is better and smoother at takeoffs,but I can’t afford to lose that type of mph on the top end. I took it off and installed it on my other motorized bike and went back to the stock clutch on the Phatmoto.
Rational dreamer,I tried literally every sprocket config possible. I can’t get any more top end out of it. Since I put the Hillard clutch on,I tried a 40t,38t,and a 32 tooth. Still didn’t gain even a mph with the 32 tooth. Lifan motor doesn’t have enough power,period. Nobody will get more than 39mph out of it. If so,I need video proof sent to rjd356@comcast.net. I even tried going up one tooth with the front sprocket. Still no mph gain. And I tried a 24tooth and a 32 tooth sprocket to take the place of the stock 36tooth jackshaft sprocket that connects to the clutch. Still no top end gain. And the money I blew on buying chains for all of these sprocket configurations is ridiculous.
Does this clutch add profomce? Or just reliability? I have the 2020 rover the stock clutch and transmission area is all upgraded from the 2019 model. So no need to worry about reliability
The 2020 clutch is still the same as the 2019, a cheap Chinese knock off of an American clutch (Max Torque). The only difference is the '20 clutch is a #35 chain. The '19 clutch is a #415H chain. The #35 chain, clutch and sprockets are more available than #415 so its easier to obtain replacement options. A good quality Hilliard or Max Torque clutch doesn't add performance per se but adds smoother take offs, better wear and longer life of the clutch. Better materials and quality control during production puts the American made clutch far ahead, but also costs 2 to three times more. You'll still need to lube the 2020 clutch the same as the 2019.
How long will the Hilliard extreme duty clutch last as i just installed one before I saw your update on the key failure. I would like to get some use out of it before switching to Max torque.
The more you ride it, the sooner it will shear, could be 2 days, 2 weeks, or 2 months. The one certain thing is it will happen. So just use it until it happens. It works very well till it breaks. You might want to see if Hilliard offers the heat treated and hardened hub, which you can replace, that is what the engineering rep from Hilliard told me to do. They cost about $16-$20
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles For $16-$20 why not stick with the hilliard using the hardened hub.Seems cheaper that switching to max torque. Am i missing something.It will cost more to switch .Can you tell me why you didn't get the hardened hub. Also if the key breaks does it damage the shaft keyway.
@@susanryskoski4467 Some times it does damage the shaft keyway. When I talked to the engineering rep at Hilliard, he said he took over from another guy, and the clutch has a design flaw with the hubs. So I was expecting him to offer me a free hardened hub, but he basically told me that their clutches were too good for the low horse power engines we run, thats why they shear. Well, I call BS on that and being stubborn I'm not going to give them another penny of my money. If you look at the bore of the Hilliard it is egg shaped instead of a normal round bore. I think that causes the key to be to tall and it is easy to shear off. Plus I'm not entirely sure the new hub will work either. Also I have been waiting on some one else to try the hardened hub. The Max Torque is a quality American made clutch, and the design works and will hold up.
@@susanryskoski4467 I think the standard is 2200 to 2600 rpm. The stock Lifan 80cc idles at about 1650 rpm's, so a 2200 is about what you want. The higher stall speed springs are for higher performance engines that rev higher. So your off the shelf clutch is what you want.
Hi guys, Anything I recommend is just my opinion, please do your own research and make upgrades that fit your needs and riding style, the products I mention and use work for me and my riding style, they may not be for you.
Beau please post the correct part number for the Max Torque clutch. I found SKU 1158MT 11T, 5/8" bore, Max Torque Centrigugal Clutch #35 from this website www.gopowersports.com/11t-5-8-bore-max-torque-centrigugal-clutch-35/, I would like to confirm if this is the correct clutch. Thanks
@@LichaelMewis That clutch will work if you have a 2020 model because it has the #35 chain, if you have a 2019 you have to get one with a 415 or possibly a 40 chain.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles if I put a 10 clutch 41 chain and a 41 series or so jackshaft with two or four teeth bigger on the jackshaft do you think it will help with a clutch problems a bit? I know you've tried a lot of things and had many of bikes. I'm not worried about top-end as I am offline and mid-range. I mostly ride on the sidewalks and pedal a lot with the motor off until the clutch locks up and brings me to a halt. But when the motor is off I'm lightly on the throttle or just idling but hopefully more gear would engauge the clutch better and sooner at lower speeds when the motor is on. How many more teeth do you think I should go for what I want. I don't care about top end. Is OMD Warehouse they're Max torque 10 tooth clutch pretty good and what you would recommend? And would I still have all these clutch engaging problems when the motor is off and I'm peddling it? I wish I had a manual lever I could totally disengage gauge the clutch with when I'm pedaling and the motor is off. I saw one RUclips video and it looked like he had some apparatus on a real old bikes and he had a little shed where his bikes were possibly a manual disengage and engage clutch. I forget what channel it was.
@@jonsmith2217 With a quality clutch that alone fixes a lot of problems, but even with a quality clutch it still needs frequent oiling. The Max Torque clutch is quality American made unit made to quality control standards with quality materials. They are quite a bit more expensive than the cheap $20 Chinese knockoffs Max torque clutches can be modified with different rated springs that allow the shoes to engage at different rpm's.It depends on the idle speed of your engine as to what rpm spring you use The cheap clutch has an inferior spring which wears out from use and heat and engages at idle and causes the clutch to stall out. Bottom line get a quality clutch of any ratio you desire, keep it oiled and you shouldn't have to many more problems. As to adding more teeth to the jackshaft sprocket, it would give you more take off power and lower top end for sure.
I am having trouble with my 2020 version I got my 40/41 hilliard but my chain dont fit and the sprocket is smaller then 415 and cant be changed out any ideas and my tire sprocket broke
The 2020 model has a #35 chain and jackshaft sprocket, not compatable with a 40/41. The best option would be to return your Hilliard and get a clutch that is a #35 chain size. Or change your jackshaft sprocket to a 40/41 or 415 and buy a 40/41 chain. As far as your rear sprocket breaking I don't know what would cause that, but if its a manufacturing defect its covered by warranty. Now if you can get Gasbike.net to stand behind it, good luck, but its worth a try. I got them to replace a damaged recoil unit that was damaged in shipping with no problem they shipped it and I had it in 2 days
You can also change the sprocket on your Hilliard clutch to a #35 chain. I'm not sure of the teeth count on the new 2020 model stock clutch but that is a option.
@@salvatoreharkerii8203 I don't know for sure on the 2020 model, but I'm going to guess it's the same as the 2019. The 40/41 chain and the 415 share the same pitch ( the distance from centerline to centerline of the teeth on the sprocket. The 40/41 chain is wider than the 415 but works on most sprockets
Awesome thank you for such a quick response i had just gotten my bike together went on the first ride and the bolt holding the jack shift in place backed out and disappeared. i replaced it but the shaft was running on Just the inside bearing and they feel awful now didnt want to have to get a whole replacement kit for 2 bearings.
@@richliotta6174 The bearings are a real bear to replace. They don't come out easy at all. You have to be very careful not to damage the frame. When they go back in, the same thing. They must go in even. Some have used ovens and stoves to heat the bearings then tap them in, and then quickly remove the shaft from the freezer to put it in. Probably be best to freeze one bearing and tap in the pedal chain side. Then warm up one bearing and put it on the frozen shaft gear side. Then put shaft in bike. Over in the Phatmoto face book group there are some pics and videos, which might help. Its smart to replace the jack shaft bolts with quality bolts and use loctite. Also replace rear disc/sprocket bolts with quality bolts w/loctite. They will come loose too. Also check the bottom bracket bolts they have been a problem too.
@@JasonStPierre It might be better, you have to try it to see. My experience has shown that oil works better and lasts longer than grease (my opinion), the reason I think is because the oil soaks in to the bushing and the grease just wears off.
@@JasonStPierre I ride my bike pretty slow so I'm not always locking the clutch up I'm mostly just idling. I used high temp synthetic wheel bearing Grease on bushing and crank shaft. no luck still have the clutch problems. OMD Warehouse said 10w 40 or 10 W 30 motor oil or non-synthetic oil. He said to let the center bushing soak a few hours in this oil or overnight wouldn't hurt. Here's what they said wipe the clutch Bell off with WD-40 and the clutch pads and wipe dry. Myself I thought it would make it slip with WD-40. I'm on my second stock clutch and still having problems. OMD Warehouse their Max torque 10 tooth clutch. It was about $41 and $8 shipping and he said I need the 41 chain and sprocket and I should go 2 or 4 teeth bigger on the jackshaft so i can lock clutch up at lower speeds. because I'm running sidewalks and riding pretty slow. And I'm shutting the engine off or trying to a lot of times to Peddle it for a workout. My clutch is not locking up and I'm at idle engine speeds a lot of time. I don't run on the road with traffic. Hopefully this combination will work and last for mine.
Uh hey, not sure if you guys had this problem, but my breaks are messed up. The pegs are drilled crooked, and thus it does not seat flat. I tried a dozen washer combinations before I realized there is no shems or other break arms that I can make work... Short of hitting this piece of shit with a hammer... Anyone got any advise? Any other type of breaks work? Or anything? I want to get a trailer and I know this thing is going to run me into a semi-truck first time I put 50lbs behind it...
I might not be of much help, but Linear v-brakes have multiple adjustment points and are tricky to get right. The brakes on the Phatmoto are of the cheapest quality so even when expertly adjusted they work so - so. When you say the pegs are drilled crooked, do you mean the mounting points of the arms or where the pads attach to the arms? If it is as described you might be screwed and they can't be fixed or adjusted. It is possible to install side pull caliper clamping brakes, but you'll have to drill a hole in the installation point and there is a hole already there drilled at the wrong orientation so it could cause structural integrity so that might not be a way to go. Disc brakes are out because of no where to put the disc. I am no expert but maybe if you speak to a bike mechanic he might have a solution. But most bike shops are snobs and won't work on a motorized or electric bikes, also some of the so called bike mechanics I've encountered have left me unimpressed. All I can suggest is to keep researching and trying till all options are exhausted.
My phatmoto wire Muffler Shield is cracked does anybody know where I can get one? No luck at gas bike or Lifan. It's the wire Muffler shield that keeps your left leg from getting burned. If all else it looks like I'm going to have to get it welded up or make something.
I don't know where you can buy a new one. You can get it brazed or welded, or you can replace it with a Viper flexible exhaust for a 2 stroke or a Poo Poo flexible exhaust from bikeberry.com but they are expensive. The Viper found on ebay is about $45 or so.just make sure the center to center dimension is 30mm. Go to the phatmoto thread on youtube and scroll down to Rogelio Solis he has about 3 short videos with the Viper flexible exhaust, check it out. Also Rubinakatoadter9gsThomas has a new video with a homemade exhaust, I haven't watched the video so I can't recommend it.I'm going to go with the Viper flexible as soon as I can get one.
@@jonsmith2217I just measured my 2 stroke 80/66cc engine and the spacing is about 40mm. So it is different than the lifan. Most 4 strokes are all different, If you buy one make sure its 30mm, I've seen the flexible exhaust at 40mm and I've seen one on ebay that was 30mm. Maybe the spacing on the 49cc 2 stroke is 30 mm. I just went to bikeberry.com and they have a BBR Poo Poo flex exhaust for $75.00 in the product description it says the exhaust stud spacing is (30mm standard 2 stroke engine). So I don't know what is up. I'm not going to pay $75.00 plus sales tax (in Calif.) for it. My 2 stroke kit was a super cheap one at $93 I didn't know it was 40mm. Rodelio Solis got one to fit so I really don't know what is up.
I have the 2019 model and the stock clutch has 11 tooth count. The 2020 model has a clutch with a different size chain (#35) so I don't know how many that clutch has. (usually most mini-bike, go-cart, or motorized bikes use an 10 to 12 count clutches)
Hi, if you referring to the Hilliard or another clutch you can get it on eBay, Amazon, and other suppliers of mini bike, go cart and industrial equipment suppliers etc.
At 1:50 to about 2:30 in the video, I explain without the free play, you crush down on the bronze bushing (the 4 bronze tabs on a Hilliard bushing) and it wears them out prematurely. Other clutches such as Max Torque or Chinese clones do not have the internal bronze tabs, so you just torque those down.
@beau brummel Have you seen Gasbike.net website they now sell replacement clutch for my 2020 Phatmoto. It's a Hilliard Heavy Duty 35. They want $79.00 for it. I found what looks like the same clutch Hilliard LD4S-7L Extreme Duty Centrifugal Clutch. 5/8" bore, 12 tooth, 35 chain at mfgsupply.com for $51.98 shipping and tax. I ordered one today, but I thought it was interesting that Gasbike.net themselves are using and recommending Hilliard brand. BTW - I love my Phatmoto and it has been a joy to ride. Well built frame......Chinese do great work on the machine welds on the body. Beautiful work. I weigh 245 lb and it does great for an $899.00 total price to my door. No complains here. I am going to upgrade brakes and front shock at some point which is no biggie. All in all.......a very satisfied customer.
Yes, those clutches that gasbike.net have now were tested by myself and a close friend from our Phatmoto facebook group. We tested the clutch back in late Oct.2020 thru Dec.2020. We did it for Hilliard to try and fine tune a clutch that would hold up and deliver much better performance. The Gasbike Hilliard heavy duty 35 is really a incognito race clutch, it use's lightened race shoes, and a custom set of springs and this is the important part (a 5/8 bore Hardened hub). I've got 2 of them from our test samples, The only problem with the Extreme Duty 5/8 bore Hilliard is the weaker (non heat treated hardened hub) that might shear. The Extreme duty uses very heavy shoes and white springs which lock up around 2000 rpm. The good thing is they are available for $50, Nader from Gasbike contacted Brent at Hilliard and asked for a tuned clutch for the Phatmoto. Brent contacted my friend and we did the testing. Hilliard supplied us with many clutches shoes and springs we spent 3 months testing all combo's until we got one that performed all around on a Phatmoto. You might want to watch my other 2 videos on clutches.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles Good to know the difference in the Gasebike clutch. It confused me because they also call it Extreme Duty on their website.So my other question is, how big an ol' boy are you. I'm 245 lbs and I wonder if a 2600 engagement is better for heavy guys, than for say a 2000 rpm engagement for those on Phatmoto under say 200 lbs. Seems like rpm engagement and total weight....there should be a sweet spot formula. Just wondering about your thought on that. Again, thanks for all the info young man.. ( I'm 65). :)
@@Picklejam08 Hello graftonreed, yeah I'm a fresh faced 70 yr. old. You have a point about weight and engagement speed and the sweet spot. I weigh 200lbs. The white springs in the ED lock up at 2300 not 2000. And the clutch from Phatmoto I think locks up around 2600, if I remember rigThe only way to determine is to try different engagement speeds until you get one that works for you. It can get expensive though .
Hey, I’m having a problem where my clutch on the original is making a weird sound when I stop and it turns off is it a bad clutch any ideas I have a Phatmoto as well
beau brummel also quick question has this screeching sound happened to you also don’t you think that is a bit much oil every day if you ride a lot like me
I went on Ali Baba wholesale website and found the stock clutches they put on the Phatmoto. I can purchase 1 for as low as $8.00 a piece (10 to 20) even lower $5 to $6 dollars a piece. They are pure junk as far as being a crucial part of your drive chain. Upgrade as soon as possible to get the most enjoyment out of your bike. Its not just a few people having trouble with these cheap clutches its everyone.They are made with cheap materials, such the garter spring which is of utmost importance because when it gets extremely hot it fails. The clutch housing is cheap stamped steel and not at all concentric which means only a small part of the clutch shoe grabs the housing. Epic fail, with the stock clutch, even after lubing it I was only able to travel a few miles before seizing up. These guys who claim 1,200 or even more miles on this clutch are feeding you a line of shit, don't buy it.
Phatmoto bikes are Chinese crap. A own an all terrain 79cc. The clutch squeals and chain make extreme noise. OK yes, it has only 3 horsepower, but throttle response is terrible. Not good to drive in street traffic. Why do I have to spend more money on a 1,300 dollar motorized bike. My 250 dollar foot pedal bike has no problems. Why must invest in a belt driven torque converter, a thumb throttle etc... to make this piece of shit at least decent.
It is true the bike is made with very cheap parts, that is designed so the Manufacturer can make the most profit. If you do the gov. bypass the Lifan 152F engine with 3 hp can easily propel you to 30+ mph. I really don't recommend a torque converter for this engine as it is weak on torque and a decent quality clutch that is kept well oiled will perform better. Yes, a quality clutch and quality chain and quality chain tensioner will make your riding experience more enjoyable. You have a point $1,300 is over priced for the quality of bike you receive. I would never spend that on a Rover or All Terrain when there are better bikes out there for around the same price. I paid $499 in Nov. 2018 for mine on a pre sale deal and had to wait 6 months for delivery. I've spent about $500 on upgrades and my bike is reliable and fun to ride. I recommend, people don't spend $999 for a Rover or $1,300 for a All Terrain, instead look for very good deals on a used bike. I've seen them for sale almost new with many upgrades for $ 500. Anyway, good luck. I paid $1,500 for a Sikk Ped motorized bike, actually it is the same price as the All Terrain at $ 1,199 but you pay $299 for shipping. The difference is the quality of the bike is far superior to the Phatmoto. It comes with a strong steel frame, a proven 49 cc small motorcycle style engine that puts out 2.8 hp. A built in wet clutch that is smooth and trouble free, an electric start, (12 volt battery on board so a lighting kit can be easily installed) Premium 203 mm hydraulic brakes, premium fat tires and mine does 39 mph. stock.
UPDATE: they now sell a hardened hub for $16 at bmikarts.com . So if you have one with a sheared key you can now fix it, I did just that. Update on the Hilliard Extreme Duty, these clutches will eventually fail. They shear off the built in key. I've heard from many people who have used these clutches on their Phatmoto"s and sooner or later they fail. Its to bad, because they are pricey clutches and when they work they work well and are smooth, but they break. I contacted the sales rep. at Hilliard and he said, "Our clutches are too good for the low horse power engines (meaning 2.5 to 3 hp)." He says the engines cycle off and on to much and that causes the key to get hammered and break. Well I don't buy it, these clutches should not break. I told him the cheap Chinese clutches slip, heat up and grab and don't work smooth. He said, "That's why our clutches break because they work too good." I told him, I won't be buying or recommending his clutches any more and I'll be buying Max Torque from now on.
Thank you very much your videos helped me not have any problems. I had to fix just about everything you talked about when I got my Phatmoto all terrain including the air filter that was cracked.
Thanks for watching, I don't have a All Terrain, but the Rover is very similar. Head over to the facebook group especially dedicated to Phatmoto's, you'll find much info on repairs and mods, especially the All Terrain. Phatmoto (Builds/Mods & Info)
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles I've been reading before buying the Phatmoto so I am interested in joining the FB group. The problem is that my computer has a defect on the screen and is not allowing me to answer the last question. Can any of you help me in?
@@raulcruz6601 I'll go over there right now and allow you to join, Thanks.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles Thanks. Very important to me
Tractor Supply here in Amarillo Texas has Hillard Clutches. Just got one today.
Right on, what did you have to give for it?
My Tractor Supply was a no-go they didn't have a clutch.
I can't wait to be able to do this to my Phatmoto. I have been seriously struggling with everything on this bike ever since I got it. I see the nice links at the bottom of the comment from @Ivan Davila - very nice thank you. I will be purchasing one of those with a new chain and the Hilliard clutch. Just have to save up a bit.
00⁰poop o 9
Cool.. i did have it figured out right. Was unsure. About to check for washers now..
And as for tightening it up i jerk it seems to work fine. Just put wrench on there tighten as far as you can till it spins than jerk hard fast a few times this works for me
Did not show how to oil bushing. Thanks dude.
Sorry its a old video, close to 4 years old. I do have 2 or 3 more newer videos where I do show oiling the bushing. See: "Phatmoto Oh No, another clutch video" also see : Phatmoto, Oil that clutch bushing, its easy" and "Phatmoto Oil your centrifugal clutch (easy) how to"
Update, Update, Update, This is a very good clutch and is smooth etc. The problem is the built in key will shear off sooner than later, its not if it will happen but when it will happen. You are better off buying a Max Torque clutch. They seem to hold up well. Yes, there seems to be a design flaw in the Hilliard that as you throttle on and off it puts undue pressure on the key and it fails. Hilliard says you can buy a heat treated and hardened hub for about $16.00 but I'm not going to throw good money at it. For what they cost Hilliard should use a improved hub and maybe they can keep some customers.
This saved me my clutch thank you!
Got mine on.. and had a idea..
The cover didn't seem to go over the clutch the same so i took some washers and put them behind cover infront of motor this makes it fit better and opens it up for more air flow.
If your cage that covers the tiny muffler breaks just wrap the muffler with muffler wrap
New news on the Hilliard Extreme Duty clutch, BMIKarts.com has the 5/8 bore heat treated hub replacement part for this clutch. If you had one that sheared on you because of the weak original hub. You can buy a replacement for $16.95, just pop your shoes and springs on the new hub and you have a very good reliable clutch.
You had me going with those "bad to the bone" cards... When the cops stop you should give them that instead of a license... 😂😂😂💀💀💀
Cops don't stop me
My Hilliard clutch vibrates something terrible before engaging. I'm getting rid of it. I hear everyone talking about how smooth it is. I wouldn't know. I'm going to try the Max Torque.
I made this video 2 years ago, the only Hilliard clutch available then in the 5/8 bore was the Extreme Duty, it was only available with the powdered metal hub, very soft and prone to shearing. The Hilliard clutch that Phatmoto uses is a very good clutch, it has a heat treated, hardened hub which is not prone to shearing. It also has the shoes from the Blaze race clutch. I've used all types of clutches from the very cheapest Chinese to very expensive. When you say vibrates, does that mean the clutch tries to engage agressively, causing whats known as clutch chatter. The Max Torque is a heavy shoe clutch with whats known as a garter spring, its a good American clutch but no where near as good as the Hilliard. When my clutch starts to"chatter" or get grabby or agressive it usually means I need to oil the bushing or help it out with a quick shot of WD 40 in the shoes. Usually mine rarely needs it because I use a turbine oil designed for bushings or any thing that spins a lot. Some of that oil gets inside the drum and gives me just enough slip or "co efficient of friction" to work very well. I have 2 Chinese, 3 Hilliard, and 1 Max Torque clutches, all work, but some better than others. A lot of Phatmoto owners and motorized bike owners main complaint is with the clutch, some more than others. Having used all three, Chinese Max Torque, Hilliard tthe Hilliard performs the best for me.
Love your videos. I have a question. As far as distance per ride. What is the longest ride you have taken on your bike?
On my Phatmoto about 10 miles, on my Sikk Ped 50 miles.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles Thank you. I ride mine for getting to work. Which about to be a 20 mile ride 1 way.
@@patriotmedia2388 You might want to assemble a small tool kit, a patch kit and maybe a spare tube, along with a hand pump. Maybe a spare master link for chain, a spare accelerator cable and anything you can think of that might break or work loose while on your journey. If you upgrade a few bolts, chains, and do your preventative maintenance like repacking the wheel bearings and JS bearings etc. you should be able to do that commute easily.
That 10 tooth Hilliard clutch versus the stock 11 tooth clutch. The Hillyard should have faster take off and of course a aftermarket Hilliard a much better clutch. I'm definitely going to put some holes in my cover hopefully sad cover doesn't end up cracking because fat Moto probably doesn't even have these covers available if it does. Kind of like the wire muffler guard that cracks and falls off nobody has a muffler guard. I was thinking holes in this side cover would sling grease on you but it would miss your leg if it did at all. I've got to get me an aftermarket clutch I might go with that one that accepts the 415 chain I think I saw it on another one of your videos somebody added in the comment section.
I didn't notice any more take off speed, but did notice a much smoother start with no clutch chatter and grabbing. The holes I put in my guard seem to help cooling the clutch and I really don't notice any oil slinging out. I do clean the inside on a regular basis. I believe Max Torque makes a 415 clutch
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles thanks, that back big sprocket on the drive 415 chain side they should have put a ledge on the wheel. So the sprocket can rest and take most of its weight on the Wheel. so it's not just the bolts holding it on. My bolts started to wiggle out so I put blue Loctite on them to help. Sort of like a factory wheel on a car you have the center support in the middle of the wheel riding on the hub. taking most of the weight and the lug nuts just hold it against the Hub. Can you pedal through your two stroke motorized bike with the engine off easier than the fat Moto with the engine off?
Thanks, Beau I appreciate the info I havve had my bike over three months and I could not ride it for almost 2 months, The bike should of never been shipped to me
or any one else for that matter, It was damaged from the gate when I was unboxing the bike I noticed the large sprocket on the jack shaft had hammer marks all over the side of it and when I checked i could see the sprocket was bent to hell and back,I told them at gas bike and they played stupid every time I would try running the bike I would get that loud squeal then the engine would kick out ,the wanted videos of this and that and pictures of the greese I was using they said it was the clutch and I told it was the large sprocket it was causing most of the problem they sent me a dirty used clutch i did not even try it ougt i tried pulling the large sprockett off , It took me two days of pounding and try differnt pullers to get the shaft and sprocketts off I had to beat it out they had mushroomed the shaft so bad that it did not want to come off ,so after many back and forths with those guys, They sent me a brand new shaft and sprocketts I then noticed when they welded the bearing house on it ius 20 degree slant and no matter what I do I can never get both sprocketts lined up, It was a flawed Bike from the start , I told them but they dont even reply back about it I did get the bike working halfway decent but still having problems trying to smooth out the ride, But iI may never be ablle to acomplish that will see, Thanks Steve
Steve, it looks like gasbike screwed you royal, they have a bad reputation of not standing behind their products and then no customer service. I was lucky I was one of the first to receive a bike because I was like the third person to buy on the pre-sale back on Nov. 3rd, 2018. I assume they made sure the first bikes had some quality control and were at least use able. Like most Chinese produced crap you roll the dice as to getting a product that isn't total junk and unuseable. But it goes back to gasbike they won't spend the money sending back bikes to China that are super defective and making the manufacturer supply ones that are good. I hope you can make it work at least good enough to enjoy it.
I was thinking of buying a second one, but have deceided to buy a frame and build one up from parts. Good luck it sounds like you will need it.
First of all Beau I can't find that Max torque clutch for the 415 chains anywhere I am still looking where fif you find it at? if I can not get this bike somewhat lined out, and they drag their feet and do not want to give me a new frame I font have a problem taking them to court at least I can ask to get paid for the labor I put into before I was even able to ride it , Im sure you read there return policy they pretty much wash there hands on anything including paying to return the item then they stipulate all these dos, and dont's but I have a really strong case against them if they push me to it , Will see they had sent me a new clutch and they sent me a used and extremely dirty clutch I was shocked not so much it was used but they sent it to me dirty as hell, I actually cleaned and greased it dor them and sent it back,
@@stevepl6198 Steve, they have a Max Torque 5/8 shaft, 415 chain, 10 tooth at gopowersports.com. The problem is they want $79.00 for it, which seems quite high. I also think I found one on ebay also, but you have to be careful they sell fake Max Torque clutches, according to the owner of Max Torque. I'm going to see if I can find one again, I'll let you know.
@@stevepl6198 I found one on BMIkarts.com also for $59.00 they have it listed as a 5/8 bore for bicycle chain, in the description they say its for a 415 chain.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles Thanks for The info I did see the one for 79, It is pretty high as you already know that,
Also I did not need any spacers or washers for the clutch they sent me it fit on perfectly and works great
Thanks for the tutorial. I ordered the same clutch off,open box,off of eBay from a private seller. I’m curious to know how it performs compared to the stock clutch.
I think you will like it. So far I've only had time to ride a mile or so, but it is very smooth on the start off and seems to respond to the throttle very fast. It still needs periodic oiling like any clutch but the quality and design is just better than the stock clutch. Let us know what you think when you get it installed.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles putting this aftermarket Hilliard clutch on did you just change the clutch and the chain? Did you go to a 40 or 41 chain?
@@jonsmith2217 Yes, I went with a 40/41 chain which is wider to fit the sprocket on the Hilliard
Hello, I am looking to buy the Phatmoto bike soon but I have some questions about it.
1. Can I fit a different engine in it like a 100cc Honda GX or GXR120 series motor?
2. Do you consider this bike to be reliable for commuting to college everyday?
3 . Is it relatively good quality?
Thank you for making these videos, very informative and helpful!
Hi, to answer your question #1, The Honda GX 100 and the GXR 120 should fit, you might need to modify the air cleaner or exhaust. Research the overall dimensions and compare to the Lifan 152f-3.
Question #2 I would consider it to be semi reliable after you break it in and upgrade the brakes, tires, clutch and perform re-tighten bolts, loctite set screws etc.
Question #3 The frame seems to be robust with extra gussets, the engine is of decent quality although under powered. The forks, tires, brakes, clutch are inferior and need upgrading. Gasbike sourced cheap Chinese parts to keep the cost of the bike low. This is just my opinion. I would buy this bike again.
Don’t buy this bike the customer service is not good they will make you build the bike yourself with no help can’t even return it without a lot of fees so no money back but adding money to return it
@@Thisisarab What's to build, mount a seat, handlebars, engine hook up a chain, kill switch put gas in and ride. My engine came with a damaged recoil starter, I emailed them sent a pic and in 4 days had a new one in the mail. These bikes as well as any kit bike requires some basic mechanical skills to assemble and maintain, if you don't have that you should not buy.
@@kevinmiller5510 Who have you heard you can expect various engine failures from? The engine is a 2.5 hp Lifan Chinese generic engine that basically is a standard industrial engine used in many applications. You can't buy factory direct Gasbike.net had them made to their specs.(cheap as they were) they are the factory) . If they sent you a repackaged box with a a defective product I'm with you on that. The clutch is a cheap piece of Chinese inferior product period. I'm still in amazement that people expect a $699 dollar motorized bike to be a $ 2,000 or $3,000 dollar bike and be of the utmost quality that it should be on the par of American quality. Jesus tits what do you think a $699 dollar American bike would look like. Its not going to happen at $699, double it and buy a Phantom bike, although I believe they have switched to all electric bikes because they see they can't compete with the the Chinese on motorized bikes. Phantom bikes are of great quality that start at at about $1,500. This is just my opinion, man so don't ---- with the jesus
@@kevinmiller5510 About 3 months ago when Phatmoto arrived a guy on one of threads had a leak at one of the welds. He fixed it by sanding and scrapping the small area on the weld, then JB Weld was put on allowed to dry and prresto no more leak, a small amount of touch up paint and no one knows. I've used J B Weld on gas tanks ,water pumps the stuff is top quality. Sure you should not have a leak but they happen. You need mech. know how to keep a $600 bike on the road, I constantly amfixing, lubing, tweaking on mine. If you want better realibility buy a $2,000 electric.
I use this clutch I went with the 12 tooth cover fits perfect in my bike picked up a couple miles per hour
I swear by all your Phatmoto reviews and recommendations. You’re right when you say they’re great bikes that require the extra tinkering here and there to push them across the finish line.
I was wondering if you had any advice regarding an issue I have with my clutch. I’ve contacted Phatmoto by email already, but the stock clutch on my All-Terrain seems to engage when the bike is on and idle, and leads to the eventual horrifying squealing & screeching. What is going on, and how do I mitigate the issue?
You have a dry clutch bushing, it needs to be oiled at regular intervals, every hour to every day to every 2 days etc. As it wears in and when it is oiled regular the intervals seem to decrease.
I’m looking for a phat moto might build one
Please understand I no longer recommend buying this clutch, this video is for reference only on how to install it. if you buy one and it fails don't start cussing me out or threaten me. Buy a heat treated, hardened hub.
Hi Beau I was watching this video..should I change the clutch from the stock.? The 2024 model is supposed to come with hillard clutch.. I haven’t received bike yet but wondering if I should get something different
Also I bought a gold 415 racing chain ..do I need more than one?? Thank you
That video is 4.5 years old and was based on the 2019 Phatmoto Rover, when they first came out in 2019 the stock clutch was a cheap Chinese 415 chain clutch. They were problematic, but you could get them to work. Later in 2020/2021 model years Phatmoto upgraded the clutch to a Hilliard "Scorcher" American made clutch and those have been standard every since. Also the clutches now use a #35 chain. You only need one 415 chain to the rear wheel.
In the video I upgrade to a Hilliard ED Extreme Duty clutch, it also had issues with the key shearing off in the hub. That problem has been fixed. The new Phatmoto's come with a special clutch made for the Phatmoto. Myself and a friend from my FB group actually did the testing for HIlliard for Phatmoto to fine tune the springs and shoes for the bike.
@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles my 2023 Phatmoto has the hilliard (came with it), but after 4 rides the clutch is not disengaging when at idle. This causes the engine to bog and die when I come to a stop. I'm not sure what caused it or what to do about it. Should I start by taking it apart and cleaning/lubing it, or do you think it's shot and I should just get a max torque instead?
@@wesh388 If your clutch is new, it needs oiled at the clutch bushing, at frequent intervals. What I mean is it needs oiled a lot. Once it has sufficient oil, the intervals will be less. If the engine stalls at idle from clutch grabbing, the bushing needs oiled. The Hilliard that came with the bike is a superior clutch, it is easily maintained, easy to change springs, it has the lightened race shoes.
There is a lot of back and forth on the clutch and the chain, I have the same bike and the clutch is total trash, especially when you first take off the bike wants to hop from the clutch slipping, and engaging, So I know the Hillard extreme clutch 40/41 is what you every one recommends will that be an exact replacement as far as the fit goes for the chain and shaft and sprocket size, is there anything else I need to do or know Thanks Steve S
Hi Steve, the 5/8 shaft is the same but the 40/41 chain is wider than the stock 415H chain. The 36 tooth jackshaft sprocket is rather thin but the pitch (distance from tooth to tooth center) is the same, I"m running the 41 chain and have had no problems. If you buy the Hilliard Extreme you'll need to buy a 40/41 chain. There is another option to the Hilliard and its the Max Torque which you can buy with a 415H chain size, they are American made and offer good quality, in fact all the cheap Chinese clutches are a rip off of the Max Torque. Either one will cost you around $50, If you go with the Hilliard you'll need to buy chain or replace the jackshaft sprocket. I hope this wasn't to confusing. I'm eventually going to replace my jackshaft (36 tooth) sprocket with a better quality piece.
Maybe a dumb question but know that i made this mistake myself.. do you peddle during take offs? Do you Feather the throttle ease the throttle or just Max it back?
You have to peddle during take offs and you have to ease it. Also its better if you hold it at around 2300rpms or higher dropping under that going back and forth kills the clutch fast the stock one anyway.. i burnt mine up in about 15hrs of running time
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles not sure what you mean, because i bought the 12 tooth 5/8 bore hilliard extreme duty clutch and the stock chain i have that came with the bike fits perfect and have been riding it several months now without any problems, my bike is the 2020 model so not sure if that was upgraded from the 2019 model but my chain fit perfectly and i think it is a 415 chain. Hey do you know the size of the thickest chain? The one that goes to the left rear sprocket?
@@adam_-adam The 2020 model uses a #35 chain and clutch stock, did you buy the Hilliard with a #35 chain or with a 40/41. The drive chain is a 415H, thats the inside gear that goes to the rear sprocket
If any of you guys are wondering about these centrifugal clutches. Which ones work better, which design is better, who makes a quality piece compared to a cheap Chinese with poor quality control and poor materials. Just check out this video, do a RUclips search - Hilliard Extreme Duty Clutch Benefits. You'll see why a American made clutch is superior and why they perform better.
@Rational Dreamer I'm with you on being a dream to ride compared to the cheap stock. One guy complained he lost 2 to 3 mph on the top end. But with the added take off power and hill climbing ability I would never put the stock clutch back on. No comparing the two clutches. The Hilliard is smooth no chatter, just a superior clutch, keep it lubed properly and enjoy.
I see various models of the Hilliard clutch. Which specific model do I need to get to replace the stock one on my phat moto?
The one I use is the extreme duty, 5/8 bore, it uses a 40/41 chain so the teeth on the clutch housing are wider so the stock 415H chain won't work I saw today on Amazon they have a Max Torque clutch that is a 10 tooth and uses the 415H stock chain, but it costs upwards of $65.00
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles Which Center Bore size 5/8" or 3/4" Crankshaft should I choose for Phatmoto bikes ? Thanks.
@@BDNYCC If you are using stock Lifan 79.5 cc engine it's a 5/8" bore, which means the crankshaft is 5/8 do not buy any other size, concentrate on chain size 5/8 bore for stock engine
What size is this clutch 3/4 or 5/8? Also what chain it uses? I will have a 2020 delivered soon. Thanks
This bike is a 2019 so it is different than the 2020. Both have a 79cc Lifan engine and the clutch bore is 5/8. The 2020 from clutch to jack shaft is #35 chain. The 2019 from clutch to jack shaft is 415.
beau brummel I really cannot appreciate your response more! Thanks finally somebody answered. So I guess that I need the 5/8 #35 clutch. What is your opinion on Max Torque brand?
@@MJTechChannel The Max Torque is very good for these lower horsepower engines. They are the same design as the cheap Chinese stock unit. I should say the Chinese copied the Max Torque years ago. It is a garter spring type clutch which works well on these Phatmoto's stock. The Hilliard is very smooth and works well until the built in key shears off. If you change the springs in the Hilliard to black @$4 = $16. Then buy a heat treated hardened hub from them for another $16, you spend an extra $32. You might as well buy a racing clutch for that price, which is a waste on a low horse power motor. Go with the Max Torque for sure.
If you are buying a 2020 Phatmoto you might want to go over to facebook and join the Phatmoto(Builds/Mods) group there are 135 of us over there and there is tons of info on keeping the Phatmoto running and upgrading.
beau brummel ok will do
So I just installed my Hillard clutch tonight. I only rode it for a minute since it was dark and I was worried about hitting deer too. The takeoffs I made felt smoother than the stock clutch. Will I see any difference in top speed? The stock clutch is 11 tooth and this Hillard Extreme Duty is 10tooth. I don’t want to lose any top end! I’m wondering if the clutch sprocket change to 10 tooth will now make a difference in top speed?
Losing one tooth in the front is like adding 4 teeth to the rear. I haven't noticed that much drop off on top speed but have noticed more and quicker throttle response. The Hilliard clutch responds quicker which means less slippage, which means less heat in the clutch. Heat and slippage is what destroys a clutch, that's why the much cheaper Chinese clutch doesn't perform well.
The Hilliard clutch is American made and designed to deliver smooth, reliable performance, while keeping heat down. Heat is what destroys clutches. The extreme duty clutch is designed to handle up to 8 horse power. I can't see that stock clutch doing that. I wish I could have afforded their Inferno, Inferno Flame, kart racing clutch.
If you don't think the Hilliard clutch is any good, I guess the stock clutch could go back on. But the problems with it make my bike unrideable, I can barely get a mile before it seizes up and stalls my engine. With the stock clutch I would have to keep the rpm's high at a stop sign which just puts more heat in it and makes it worse.
I lost 2-3mph on my top speed by going with a 10 tooth Hillard extreme duty clutch. It is better and smoother at takeoffs,but I can’t afford to lose that type of mph on the top end. I took it off and installed it on my other motorized bike and went back to the stock clutch on the Phatmoto.
Rational dreamer,I tried literally every sprocket config possible. I can’t get any more top end out of it. Since I put the Hillard clutch on,I tried a 40t,38t,and a 32 tooth. Still didn’t gain even a mph with the 32 tooth. Lifan motor doesn’t have enough power,period. Nobody will get more than 39mph out of it. If so,I need video proof sent to rjd356@comcast.net. I even tried going up one tooth with the front sprocket. Still no mph gain. And I tried a 24tooth and a 32 tooth sprocket to take the place of the stock 36tooth jackshaft sprocket that connects to the clutch. Still no top end gain. And the money I blew on buying chains for all of these sprocket configurations is ridiculous.
BEST VIDEO EVER! THANKS! ⭐⭐⭐⭐
All i do is hold the pull start and use a ratchet on the clutch bolt and its fine
Does this clutch add profomce? Or just reliability? I have the 2020 rover the stock clutch and transmission area is all upgraded from the 2019 model. So no need to worry about reliability
The 2020 clutch is still the same as the 2019, a cheap Chinese knock off of an American clutch (Max Torque). The only difference is the '20 clutch is a #35 chain. The '19 clutch is a #415H chain.
The #35 chain, clutch and sprockets are more available than #415 so its easier to obtain replacement options. A good quality Hilliard or Max Torque clutch doesn't add performance per se but adds smoother take offs, better wear and longer life of the clutch. Better materials and quality control during production puts the American made clutch far ahead, but also costs 2 to three times more. You'll still need to lube the 2020 clutch the same as the 2019.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles hey i have a rover 2020 and im lost on what size my shaft fro the moter is
@@igdblazinb The shaft size of the motor is 5/8 bore, 3/16 key.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles thanks so much
How long will the Hilliard extreme duty clutch last as i just installed one before I saw your update on the key failure. I would like to get some use out of it before switching to Max torque.
The more you ride it, the sooner it will shear, could be 2 days, 2 weeks, or 2 months. The one certain thing is it will happen. So just use it until it happens. It works very well till it breaks. You might want to see if Hilliard offers the heat treated and hardened hub, which you can replace, that is what the engineering rep from Hilliard told me to do. They cost about $16-$20
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles For $16-$20 why not stick with the hilliard using the hardened hub.Seems cheaper that switching to max torque. Am i missing something.It will cost more to switch .Can you tell me why you didn't get the hardened hub. Also if the key breaks does it damage the shaft keyway.
@@susanryskoski4467 Some times it does damage the shaft keyway. When I talked to the engineering rep at Hilliard, he said he took over from another guy, and the clutch has a design flaw with the hubs. So I was expecting him to offer me a free hardened hub, but he basically told me that their clutches were too good for the low horse power engines we run, thats why they shear.
Well, I call BS on that and being stubborn I'm not going to give them another penny of my money. If you look at the bore of the Hilliard it is egg shaped instead of a normal round bore. I think that causes the key to be to tall and it is easy to shear off. Plus I'm not entirely sure the new hub will work either. Also I have been waiting on some one else to try the hardened hub. The Max Torque is a quality American made clutch, and the design works and will hold up.
What rpm does your clutch kick in at? Do I need to order a certain rpm spring for it to work? Thanks for your time. Rick
@@susanryskoski4467 I think the standard is 2200 to 2600 rpm. The stock Lifan 80cc idles at about 1650 rpm's, so a 2200 is about what you want. The higher stall speed springs are for higher performance engines that rev higher. So your off the shelf clutch is what you want.
Hi guys, Anything I recommend is just my opinion, please do your own research and make upgrades that fit your needs and riding style, the products I mention and use work for me and my riding style, they may not be for you.
Beau please post the correct part number for the Max Torque clutch. I found SKU 1158MT 11T, 5/8" bore, Max Torque Centrigugal Clutch #35 from this website www.gopowersports.com/11t-5-8-bore-max-torque-centrigugal-clutch-35/, I would like to confirm if this is the correct clutch. Thanks
@@LichaelMewis That clutch will work if you have a 2020 model because it has the #35 chain, if you have a 2019 you have to get one with a 415 or possibly a 40 chain.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles thanks
What size is the Bore on the clutch?
Its a 5/8" bore
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles if I put a 10 clutch 41 chain and a 41 series or so jackshaft with two or four teeth bigger on the jackshaft do you think it will help with a clutch problems a bit? I know you've tried a lot of things and had many of bikes. I'm not worried about top-end as I am offline and mid-range. I mostly ride on the sidewalks and pedal a lot with the motor off until the clutch locks up and brings me to a halt. But when the motor is off I'm lightly on the throttle or just idling but hopefully more gear would engauge the clutch better and sooner at lower speeds when the motor is on. How many more teeth do you think I should go for what I want. I don't care about top end. Is OMD Warehouse they're Max torque 10 tooth clutch pretty good and what you would recommend? And would I still have all these clutch engaging problems when the motor is off and I'm peddling it? I wish I had a manual lever I could totally disengage gauge the clutch with when I'm pedaling and the motor is off. I saw one RUclips video and it looked like he had some apparatus on a real old bikes and he had a little shed where his bikes were possibly a manual disengage and engage clutch. I forget what channel it was.
@@jonsmith2217 With a quality clutch that alone fixes a lot of problems, but even with a quality clutch it still needs frequent oiling. The Max Torque clutch is quality American made unit made to quality control standards with quality materials. They are quite a bit more expensive than the cheap $20 Chinese knockoffs Max torque clutches can be modified with different rated springs that allow the shoes to engage at different rpm's.It depends on the idle speed of your engine as to what rpm spring you use
The cheap clutch has an inferior spring which wears out from use and heat and engages at idle and causes the clutch to stall out. Bottom line get a quality clutch of any ratio you desire, keep it oiled and you shouldn't have to many more problems.
As to adding more teeth to the jackshaft sprocket, it would give you more take off power and lower top end for sure.
I am having trouble with my 2020 version I got my 40/41 hilliard but my chain dont fit and the sprocket is smaller then 415 and cant be changed out any ideas and my tire sprocket broke
The 2020 model has a #35 chain and jackshaft sprocket, not compatable with a 40/41. The best option would be to return your Hilliard and get a clutch that is a #35 chain size. Or change your jackshaft sprocket to a 40/41 or 415 and buy a 40/41 chain. As far as your rear sprocket breaking I don't know what would cause that, but if its a manufacturing defect its covered by warranty. Now if you can get Gasbike.net to stand behind it, good luck, but its worth a try. I got them to replace a damaged recoil unit that was damaged in shipping with no problem they shipped it and I had it in 2 days
You can also change the sprocket on your Hilliard clutch to a #35 chain. I'm not sure of the teeth count on the new 2020 model stock clutch but that is a option.
Thanks for the info I thought it was 35 but never tested it
Do you know the size of the back chain it is bigger then 40/41
@@salvatoreharkerii8203 I don't know for sure on the 2020 model, but I'm going to guess it's the same as the 2019. The 40/41 chain and the 415 share the same pitch ( the distance from centerline to centerline of the teeth on the sprocket. The 40/41 chain is wider than the 415 but works on most sprockets
i was wondering if any one knows the size of the jackshaft bearings on the 2020 model i think mine are shot and i want to upgrade
I do believe they are 6202 rs
Awesome thank you for such a quick response i had just gotten my bike together went on the first ride and the bolt holding the jack shift in place backed out and disappeared. i replaced it but the shaft was running on Just the inside bearing and they feel awful now didnt want to have to get a whole replacement kit for 2 bearings.
@@richliotta6174 The bearings are a real bear to replace. They don't come out easy at all. You have to be very careful not to damage the frame. When they go back in, the same thing. They must go in even. Some have used ovens and stoves to heat the bearings then tap them in, and then quickly remove the shaft from the freezer to put it in. Probably be best to freeze one bearing and tap in the pedal chain side. Then warm up one bearing and put it on the frozen shaft gear side. Then put shaft in bike. Over in the Phatmoto face book group there are some pics and videos, which might help.
Its smart to replace the jack shaft bolts with quality bolts and use loctite. Also replace rear disc/sprocket bolts with quality bolts w/loctite. They will come loose too. Also check the bottom bracket bolts they have been a problem too.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles thank you when the bearings come in ill let u know how the whole process goes
What type or brand grade of oil did you put on the bronze bushing?
The manufacturer says non detergent, non synthetic 10w30 or 30w oil. Any decent quality oil will work,
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles Ok Thanks for the reply Beau!!!
@@JasonStPierre It might be better, you have to try it to see. My experience has shown that oil works better and lasts longer than grease (my opinion), the reason I think is because the oil soaks in to the bushing and the grease just wears off.
@@JasonStPierre I ride my bike pretty slow so I'm not always locking the clutch up I'm mostly just idling. I used high temp synthetic wheel bearing Grease on bushing and crank shaft. no luck still have the clutch problems. OMD Warehouse said 10w 40 or 10 W 30 motor oil or non-synthetic oil. He said to let the center bushing soak a few hours in this oil or overnight wouldn't hurt. Here's what they said wipe the clutch Bell off with WD-40 and the clutch pads and wipe dry. Myself I thought it would make it slip with WD-40. I'm on my second stock clutch and still having problems. OMD Warehouse their Max torque 10 tooth clutch. It was about $41 and $8 shipping and he said I need the 41 chain and sprocket and I should go 2 or 4 teeth bigger on the jackshaft so i can lock clutch up at lower speeds. because I'm running sidewalks and riding pretty slow. And I'm shutting the engine off or trying to a lot of times to Peddle it for a workout. My clutch is not locking up and I'm at idle engine speeds a lot of time. I don't run on the road with traffic. Hopefully this combination will work and last for mine.
What size chain and clutch?
Uh hey, not sure if you guys had this problem, but my breaks are messed up. The pegs are drilled crooked, and thus it does not seat flat. I tried a dozen washer combinations before I realized there is no shems or other break arms that I can make work... Short of hitting this piece of shit with a hammer... Anyone got any advise? Any other type of breaks work? Or anything? I want to get a trailer and I know this thing is going to run me into a semi-truck first time I put 50lbs behind it...
I might not be of much help, but Linear v-brakes have multiple adjustment points and are tricky to get right. The brakes on the Phatmoto are of the cheapest quality so even when expertly adjusted they work so - so. When you say the pegs are drilled crooked, do you mean the mounting points of the arms or where the pads attach to the arms? If it is as described you might be screwed and they can't be fixed or adjusted. It is possible to install side pull caliper clamping brakes, but you'll have to drill a hole in the installation point and there is a hole already there drilled at the wrong orientation so it could cause structural integrity so that might not be a way to go. Disc brakes are out because of no where to put the disc.
I am no expert but maybe if you speak to a bike mechanic he might have a solution. But most bike shops are snobs and won't work on a motorized or electric bikes, also some of the so called bike mechanics I've encountered have left me unimpressed. All I can suggest is to keep researching and trying till all options are exhausted.
My phatmoto wire Muffler Shield is cracked does anybody know where I can get one? No luck at gas bike or Lifan. It's the wire Muffler shield that keeps your left leg from getting burned. If all else it looks like I'm going to have to get it welded up or make something.
I don't know where you can buy a new one. You can get it brazed or welded, or you can replace it with a Viper flexible exhaust for a 2 stroke or a Poo Poo flexible exhaust from bikeberry.com but they are expensive. The Viper found on ebay is about $45 or so.just make sure the center to center dimension is 30mm. Go to the phatmoto thread on youtube and scroll down to Rogelio Solis he has about 3 short videos with the Viper flexible exhaust, check it out. Also Rubinakatoadter9gsThomas has a new video with a homemade exhaust, I haven't watched the video so I can't recommend it.I'm going to go with the Viper flexible as soon as I can get one.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles okay thanks, is the two Bolt 2 stroke and four stroke 2 Bolt the same exhaust mounting flange?
@@jonsmith2217I just measured my 2 stroke 80/66cc engine and the spacing is about 40mm. So it is different than the lifan. Most 4 strokes are all different, If you buy one make sure its 30mm, I've seen the flexible exhaust at 40mm and I've seen one on ebay that was 30mm. Maybe the spacing on the 49cc 2 stroke is 30 mm.
I just went to bikeberry.com and they have a BBR Poo Poo flex exhaust for $75.00 in the product description it says the exhaust stud spacing is (30mm standard 2 stroke engine). So I don't know what is up. I'm not going to pay $75.00 plus sales tax (in Calif.) for it.
My 2 stroke kit was a super cheap one at $93 I didn't know it was 40mm. Rodelio Solis got one to fit so I really don't know what is up.
I’m going to have to do this
How many teeth are on the stock clutch?
I have the 2019 model and the stock clutch has 11 tooth count. The 2020 model has a clutch with a different size chain (#35) so I don't know how many that clutch has. (usually most mini-bike, go-cart, or motorized bikes use an 10 to 12 count clutches)
whats the post size for the clutch
It's 5/8 of an inch bore
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles thanks you are the best. great videos
I need to know we're to get this I can't find it anywhere can you plzz help
Hi, if you referring to the Hilliard or another clutch you can get it on eBay, Amazon, and other suppliers of mini bike, go cart and industrial equipment suppliers etc.
That is what I'm referring to but I can't find the specific clutch needed
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles help
Rawdon Dulong check this one- www.gopowersports.com/max-torque-centrifugal-clutch-for-bicycle-chain-410-415/
That one won't won't work it's a 10 tooth sprocket
Why don’t ya just torque it down?
At 1:50 to about 2:30 in the video, I explain without the free play, you crush down on the bronze bushing (the 4 bronze tabs on a Hilliard bushing) and it wears them out prematurely. Other clutches such as Max Torque or Chinese clones do not have the internal bronze tabs, so you just torque those down.
@beau brummel Have you seen Gasbike.net website they now sell replacement clutch for my 2020 Phatmoto. It's a Hilliard Heavy Duty 35. They want $79.00 for it. I found what looks like the same clutch Hilliard LD4S-7L Extreme Duty Centrifugal Clutch. 5/8" bore, 12 tooth, 35 chain at mfgsupply.com for $51.98 shipping and tax. I ordered one today, but I thought it was interesting that Gasbike.net themselves are using and recommending Hilliard brand. BTW - I love my Phatmoto and it has been a joy to ride. Well built frame......Chinese do great work on the machine welds on the body. Beautiful work. I weigh 245 lb and it does great for an $899.00 total price to my door. No complains here. I am going to upgrade brakes and front shock at some point which is no biggie. All in all.......a very satisfied customer.
Yes, those clutches that gasbike.net have now were tested by myself and a close friend from our Phatmoto facebook group. We tested the clutch back in late Oct.2020 thru Dec.2020. We did it for Hilliard to try and fine tune a clutch that would hold up and deliver much better performance. The Gasbike Hilliard heavy duty 35 is really a incognito race clutch, it use's lightened race shoes, and a custom set of springs and this is the important part (a 5/8 bore Hardened hub). I've got 2 of them from our test samples, The only problem with the Extreme Duty 5/8 bore Hilliard is the weaker (non heat treated hardened hub) that might shear. The Extreme duty uses very heavy shoes and white springs which lock up around 2000 rpm. The good thing is they are available for $50, Nader from Gasbike contacted Brent at Hilliard and asked for a tuned clutch for the Phatmoto. Brent contacted my friend and we did the testing. Hilliard supplied us with many clutches shoes and springs we spent 3 months testing all combo's until we got one that performed all around on a Phatmoto. You might want to watch my other 2 videos on clutches.
@@beaubrummelmotorizedbicycles Good to know the difference in the Gasebike clutch. It confused me because they also call it Extreme Duty on their website.So my other question is, how big an ol' boy are you. I'm 245 lbs and I wonder if a 2600 engagement is better for heavy guys, than for say a 2000 rpm engagement for those on Phatmoto under say 200 lbs. Seems like rpm engagement and total weight....there should be a sweet spot formula. Just wondering about your thought on that. Again, thanks for all the info young man.. ( I'm 65). :)
@@Picklejam08 Hello graftonreed, yeah I'm a fresh faced 70 yr. old. You have a point about weight and engagement speed and the sweet spot. I weigh 200lbs. The white springs in the ED lock up at 2300 not 2000. And the clutch from Phatmoto I think locks up around 2600, if I remember rigThe only way to determine is to try different engagement speeds until you get one that works for you. It can get expensive though .
Hey, I’m having a problem where my clutch on the original is making a weird sound when I stop and it turns off is it a bad clutch any ideas I have a Phatmoto as well
You need to live your clutch bushing with motor oil. If you keep it lubed it will work.
I meant lube it with oil.
The screeching noise is the dry bushing grabbing and stopping the clutch from free spinning causing it to stall your engine
beau brummel so my dad asks lube it every time you ride it?
beau brummel also quick question has this screeching sound happened to you also don’t you think that is a bit much oil every day if you ride a lot like me
I went on Ali Baba wholesale website and found the stock clutches they put on the Phatmoto. I can purchase 1 for as low as $8.00 a piece (10 to 20) even lower $5 to $6 dollars a piece. They are pure junk as far as being a crucial part of your drive chain. Upgrade as soon as possible to get the most enjoyment out of your bike. Its not just a few people having trouble with these cheap clutches its everyone.They are made with cheap materials, such the garter spring which is of utmost importance because when it gets extremely hot it fails. The clutch housing is cheap stamped steel and not at all concentric which means only a small part of the clutch shoe grabs the housing. Epic fail, with the stock clutch, even after lubing it I was only able to travel a few miles before seizing up.
These guys who claim 1,200 or even more miles on this clutch are feeding you a line of shit, don't buy it.
beau brummel what type oil for the bushing?
@@stevehurt5514 Just use 30w regular motor oil or 10w30. The clutch manufacturer says don't use synthetic oil.
Please make a video how to oil the bushing please
Phatmoto bikes are Chinese crap. A own an all terrain 79cc. The clutch squeals and chain make extreme noise. OK yes, it has only 3 horsepower, but throttle response is terrible. Not good to drive in street traffic. Why do I have to spend more money on a 1,300 dollar motorized bike. My 250 dollar foot pedal bike has no problems. Why must invest in a belt driven torque converter, a thumb throttle etc... to make this piece of shit at least decent.
It is true the bike is made with very cheap parts, that is designed so the Manufacturer can make the most profit. If you do the gov. bypass the Lifan 152F engine with 3 hp can easily propel you to 30+ mph. I really don't recommend a torque converter for this engine as it is weak on torque and a decent quality clutch that is kept well oiled will perform better. Yes, a quality clutch and quality chain and quality chain tensioner will make your riding experience more enjoyable. You have a point $1,300 is over priced for the quality of bike you receive. I would never spend that on a Rover or All Terrain when there are better bikes out there for around the same price. I paid $499 in Nov. 2018 for mine on a pre sale deal and had to wait 6 months for delivery. I've spent about $500 on upgrades and my bike is reliable and fun to ride. I recommend, people don't spend $999 for a Rover or $1,300 for a All Terrain, instead look for very good deals on a used bike. I've seen them for sale almost new with many upgrades for $ 500. Anyway, good luck. I paid $1,500 for a Sikk Ped motorized bike, actually it is the same price as the All Terrain at $ 1,199 but you pay $299 for shipping. The difference is the quality of the bike is far superior to the Phatmoto. It comes with a strong steel frame, a proven 49 cc small motorcycle style engine that puts out 2.8 hp. A built in wet clutch that is smooth and trouble free, an electric start, (12 volt battery on board so a lighting kit can be easily installed) Premium 203 mm hydraulic brakes, premium fat tires and mine does 39 mph. stock.