The Witnesses of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon

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  • Опубликовано: 29 окт 2024

Комментарии • 551

  • @elisamcgowan4774
    @elisamcgowan4774 7 месяцев назад +18

    This a brilliant take on these two girls, really well put together. Thank you for uploading this.

  • @stevenhulbert7540
    @stevenhulbert7540 Год назад +52

    These were 2 young, attractive albeit naive females who went to a corrupt, gang infested country to help people learn. Narcotics and human trafficking gangs thrive in Panama. They were targeted as soon as they arrived. Never been a conspiracy theorist, worked in LE and intell analysis, they were not going to make it to the school to do their work. All the crimes were covered up and there will never be justice for them, many of us have never forgotten them.

    • @speakofhisgrace
      @speakofhisgrace 6 месяцев назад +9

      Jesus brings final judgement

    • @Isacc..
      @Isacc.. 4 месяца назад

      The gangs dont usualy work in that way in tourist areas as it brings way to much attention.. and wich criminal in their right mind is going to lett them keep their fones...make multiple emergency calls....then take picturs throughout the missing period...then leve that camera intact....for it to finaly get in the hands of the authorties..?
      Ther are however tribes that live in the jungles still who dont know much about modern tec....and use poison darts...depending on amount of poison and type it could slowly start shutting down the body over sevral days...and during the process cause serrious fear, houlucinations, disorentation, confusion and other behavior that may not seem normal... some of the locals will go out their way to protect these tribes from the modern western world and ways..and even wen knowing they exist will deny it to westerners.

    • @Rocketman0407
      @Rocketman0407 4 месяца назад +6

      No this is a freak accident. They were incredibly unlucky. Kinda like winning the lottery in reverse statistically. Tons of people do tours like this and they do just fine.

    • @benconway9010
      @benconway9010 4 месяца назад

      @@Rocketman0407 absolute bollox you talk it was totally a crime what stevehulbert said is absolutely right

    • @andysmith1996
      @andysmith1996 4 месяца назад +2

      You must have been crap at "LE and intell analysis" if that's what you conclude from the evidence. Your whole scenario is nonsense.

  • @karelklumpers
    @karelklumpers 2 года назад +54

    I don't trust the guide. He should be interrogated in an international court.

    • @wiffley
      @wiffley 5 месяцев назад +11

      It's not a war crime. There are no international courts for regular crimes.

    • @stevenhulbert7540
      @stevenhulbert7540 Месяц назад +1

      @@wiffley True, The Hague doesn't adjudicate this type of crime.

    • @insi4547
      @insi4547 5 дней назад

      you are wrong. theres a newly published book (april 2024) with more details on the case. many questions answered.

  • @Rennnii11
    @Rennnii11 2 года назад +198

    i’m glad you’re continuing this, not many people are talking about this anymore because they think everyone’s forgot about it but some haven’t and still care.

    • @zombiemanhasbe4119
      @zombiemanhasbe4119 2 года назад +16

      Their parents and authorities Do not want to reopen the case that’s pretty much the reason why

    • @Rennnii11
      @Rennnii11 2 года назад +15

      @@zombiemanhasbe4119 Yea that makes sense and i completely understand it, it’d be nice to fully figure out what actually happened which will most likely never happen but i think we can all have an idea of what actually happened.

    • @ergitab1123
      @ergitab1123 2 года назад +12

      @@zombiemanhasbe4119 seems strange to me, for their parents to have purposely given up the search. I would rather say the dutch authorities do not have any time or resources to continue pursuing the case, and hiring private party / detectives would cost huge amounts of money, money that the girls' parents may unfortunately not have.

    • @davidmullen6011
      @davidmullen6011 2 года назад +13

      @@ergitab1123 The parents went through a living hell, and even eight years on the feelings are still too much. But I do believe that with the Kremers at least the need to know IS still there, in time I believe they will return to the search for the truth, and it is important to bear in mind here that in the last three years alone so very much new information and insight into the events of 2014 have been brought to light that it has reignited interest in what might well have just become another obscure holiday statistic....
      When I first came to this story three to four years ago there was very little available to read on it, and the discussion was focused on that blurry photograph with 'something' that people claimed was a person at the bottom of a cliff! That was where the discussion was at at that time, purely because so little information was actually available.
      Then came the Jeremy Kryt investigation, and from there it inspired a whole new interest in these two young visitors to panama, and from that we were rapidly treated to a huge cache of photographs released from the camera, an in-depth breakdown on the phone logs, the book last year which relied on the original police Files for a wealth on new insight and information, we have had spectacular video recreations from Imperfectplan and Victor Hugo that have taken us into the previously near mythical wilderness past the mirador and allowed us to completely reassess what we thought we knew of that receding part of the trail, and even now Imperfectplan are releasing in-depth information about their visit to the area early this year, and again overturning several previous beliefs we had long held about that area....
      The point at hand here is that this has gone from being a fading topic, to being picked up and re-examined by a great many interested and committed people. The Imperfectplan articles are second to none, they have now visited the area and examined it firsthand, a lot of what we thought we knew about that area is now being challenged and we can judge for ourselves whether Lisanne and Kris would have walked past the two streams, or over the meadow.
      And all of this allows us to look at that discovery in June 2014, look at how it was conducted and how the verdict of 'lost/accident' was arrived at, who declared that verdict and why, and just challenge the whole thinking and likelihood of it all.
      I think, hope really, that the Kremers at least will feel vindicated by all of this re-examination. They were holding to a suspicious and criminal reason from the start, but events overpowered them and they had to eventually accept the window was closing on them. Here in 2022 however a new wave of interest in the disappearance of their daughter and her friend is slowly chipping away at the original assessment by authorities at the time, and revealing the cracks in their argumentation...

    • @LE123LE123
      @LE123LE123 2 года назад +6

      This is why I think they actually know what really happened -that the Panamanian government told them and they have their closure. I know for fact that no mother would give up searching for answers unless they were given answers. And if they have closure/answers that is really the only people who should have them. My heart goes out to them-it’s heartbreaking to lose your child, much less in such a tragic way.

  • @alejodiego3454
    @alejodiego3454 2 года назад +54

    Their camera pictures were manipulated , only part of their bodies were planted in the middle of the jungle , lets say if they had died from natural circumstances they had found their full skeletons !!! As long as the time goes by , we find more clues and Scarlet and Juan have been doing a great job in this case , These beautiful souls deserve justice , Justice for Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon

    • @eioinmclove
      @eioinmclove 2 года назад +10

      The skeletons would not be intact, this is rough terrain full of wild animals. If they ended up in the river which is almost certain the bodies would have broken up.
      No mystery, they were very naive and inexperienced hikers, they went astray, got lost and perished. Happens quite often, sadly.

    • @rainandthangz
      @rainandthangz 2 года назад +14

      No animal or natural circumstances caused this they must think people are stupid . I think was absolutely locals maybe even pillars of the community and it was absolutely covered up!

    • @rainandthangz
      @rainandthangz 2 года назад +12

      @@eioinmclove well silly since you say that they also said they're bones were bleached I'm guessing animals do that... Also did they come back to life and start using their own phones or did the animals use it? And if they went into the river and broken up how did they get back up to the ground where they were found ? Also if it was an animal how come one of the girls couldn't fight the animal off or run and get help I mean it could have been a group of animals but still why didn't they start screaming there's a bunch of locals and farmers around to hear them! Do you think the animals called 911 70 times? Which animal you think was using the phones trying to unlock them? You are the naive one if you believe natural circumstances or an animal did this ! I mean absolutely the animals could have got to it after the person/persons did what they did but why was they're no bite marks or scratch marks ?

    • @cincin4515
      @cincin4515 Год назад +3

      Animals will scatter skeletons. Animals can do a lot of eating, dragging and scattering of carcasses.

    • @SimpleLifeAlways81
      @SimpleLifeAlways81 Год назад +2

      Omg the names of those girls … thus hurt

  • @jorgelandaverry6211
    @jorgelandaverry6211 2 года назад +21

    WHEN THE WOMAN ASKED HER DID YOU SEE ANY CAR? SHE GOT NERVOUS , HER FACIAL GESTURE CHANGED, 25:37 PUT THE VIDEO SPEED IN 0.5 THIS IS AN EVIDENCE THAT SHE IS NO TELLING THE TRUE, THERE WAS A WHITE VAN

  • @robertchandler3295
    @robertchandler3295 Год назад +23

    Definitely the Tour Guide Feliciano! He had help. He was present at all times, went into their room (hello), and participated in the 'search'. This guy! The taxi driver & others were killed which leads to strong belief they were offed to protect the people responsble. Also, where the girl bag was found Feliciano had property in the area. It was him & others who helped (strong possibly his sons).

    • @Sandoz-tq7qj
      @Sandoz-tq7qj Год назад +9

      Yes, he did it or he participated.

    • @kennethmacalpin7655
      @kennethmacalpin7655 11 месяцев назад +15

      Yeah I don't think Feliciano did it personally, because this case was a nightmare for tourism. He made his living off tourists, he's not going to kill them. But while that livelihood means he wasn't motivated to kill them, it also means he WAS motivated to cover it up. Especially if the killer was his son.

    • @Sandoz-tq7qj
      @Sandoz-tq7qj 5 месяцев назад +4

      @@kennethmacalpin7655 Good thinking 👍

    • @anneloving8405
      @anneloving8405 5 месяцев назад

      I seen a video of the search and the speed at which he found the shoe with the foot in it was truly remarkable,he must x-ray vision.mmmm

  • @krumplethemal8831
    @krumplethemal8831 11 месяцев назад +27

    There is a 3d model expert who worked in forensics that specifically worked on time of day analysis. He got the coordinates of the sun on the 1st of April and their local coordinates of the photo location at the summit. Also he used directions Lisanne was facing in the photos and used 3d modeling and lighting to determine the time the photos could have been taken and he concluded around 1pm. He showed how shadowing would have looked at 2, 3 and 4pm as well as before 1pm and suggested the time had to be near 1pm.
    That matches the camera meta data. I think witnesses are often mistaken and it happens a lot in cases. People don't always look at the clock to determine in memory events. I think the meta data is correct that they reached the summit at 1pm and were dropped off around 11am by the Taxi.

    • @Sandoz-tq7qj
      @Sandoz-tq7qj 10 месяцев назад +2

      good thinking

    • @andradas9688
      @andradas9688 9 месяцев назад +6

      The timeline is correct. We need to watch what the witnesses who live by the trails reported. There were two possible trails. The girls went for a short hike of about 1 hour and decided to go back. A woman saw them coming back, and this was around 2h30pm. That's why Frank Rosa (the owner of the shop) said the girls seemed to have hiked already. Then the girls stayed there for a while and started a new hike, this time the Pianist trail. A woman who lives by the entrance of the Pianist trail did see the girls and was concerned because it was late to start that trail. But the woman pointed out she didn't speak english and did not say a word to the girls. This was already 4h00pm or later. In other words, the timeline of the girls itinerary is perfectly coherent up to their initial emergency calls.

    • @tobiasobermayr501
      @tobiasobermayr501 9 месяцев назад +3

      @@andradas9688 this makes sense! Also for going for 1 hike they would probably be clever enough to not get there at 2 or 230 hang around for 1.5h and then start at 4. For a second shorter hike it makes more sense.

    • @andradas9688
      @andradas9688 9 месяцев назад +4

      ​@@tobiasobermayr501 correct, and that's another reason it is difficult to say they got lost, as some people still suggest. They started the second hike late and were wearing very light clothes. They did not plan to go too far. You enter a dense forest if you leave the trail. Obviously they were not going to do that.
      Why they didn't try to call other numbers, like the number of the place they were staying? Probably because they were taken by people but still managed to have their phones with them. But they couldn't really dial any number, only emergency. There were only a few attempts to call emergency. Even if your phone has no signal, if you are lost you are going to try to call emergency many times, including at night. That didn't happen. They were abducted by people with very bad intentions.

    • @tobiasobermayr501
      @tobiasobermayr501 9 месяцев назад +2

      @@andradas9688 that's true!! Never thought of that. Some small logic can already almost rule out several things. They would have tried very regularly and walked places to find reception. They were clearly in big distress when they took all the photos. Are the night photos btw from the camera or phones? Phones would make sense hidden somewhere.

  • @daveincognito62
    @daveincognito62 2 года назад +69

    Their disappearance has been a cover up since day 1 . It is 100 percent they were victims of human trafficking and cartel and gangs in that area are known for organ selling. The bones and backpack were planted. F the guide went to were they were staying and looked at the home they stayed at and went through their things and picked up the backpack that was dropped off . They indeed came back , left the backpack back at the house . F the tour guide, the taxi driver, the school , and bunch of locals were all in on it. The search conducted to find them were indeed by bunch of volunteers who were all locals in which a bunch of them are part of a gang. Deleted picture 509 was deleted because it was the picture of them swimming in the lake. It was indeed deleted by the Panamanian authorities as a cover up. How ironic is it that a bunch of locals seemed to die that were involved with the girls in some way. The taxi driver. Osman who died 3 days later after they were reported missing . Also the pictures in the dark were taken to make it look like they were lost.

    • @cincin4515
      @cincin4515 Год назад +8

      You have no idea how powerful cartels are.

    • @patriciaensey8601
      @patriciaensey8601 Год назад +6

      YES YOU ARE RIGHT .

    • @mskiara18
      @mskiara18 Год назад +7

      That seems plausible, which explains why only pieces of the women were found sadly.

    • @drdj2626
      @drdj2626 Год назад

      is the taxi driver dead?

    • @marknewton6984
      @marknewton6984 Год назад +19

      Yes wild animals don't delete photos. They were abducted and murdered.

  • @shegoesgaming993
    @shegoesgaming993 2 года назад +104

    They "accidentally" deleted the CCTV footage of the store. Co-incidences are rare in cases like these. Its more like a cover-up. I don't know how, but I bet it is. How the hell does such an important video get deleted unless it has a reason.

    • @jorgelandaverry6211
      @jorgelandaverry6211 2 года назад +8

      THEY WERENT WEAR THAT CLOTHES , I KNOW THAT, THAT WAS PHOTOSHOP , WHY THEY DELETED THE VIDEO FROM THE STORE?'

    • @Euroandj86
      @Euroandj86 2 года назад

      There were seen the girls accompanied by Henry Eliezer Gonzalez (Feliciano's son and also the boss of Los ND5) on the footage. Here is an interesting eye opener: ruclips.net/video/pCaD8kRTwsI/видео.html&ab_channel=Alternatetheories

    • @moongodess639
      @moongodess639 2 года назад +10

      Sloan bella posted a video about them that says that the locals are involved in this cover up. According to her this is a game of catch and kill. Which makes sense.

    • @Defender78
      @Defender78 2 года назад +9

      El Salvador has to maintain its reputation as a reliable and safe tourist destination, as so many young people and college age kids and young adults go there. This is probably why the government and police there are sticking to the story of that the 2 gals got lost and perished in the forest. That's their story, they're sticking to it, to maintain appearances. El Salvador is very reliant on the tourist industry, and they can't rock that boat.

    • @rainandthangz
      @rainandthangz 2 года назад +4

      It happens in most cases all of a sudden the cameras don't work no more or they're fuzzy or didn't show at a certain angle or it was accidentally deleted!! Most cases almost all cases it's disgusting! The cameras always working for everything else

  • @gusifer811
    @gusifer811 11 месяцев назад +7

    Mrs. Oliva, the one who previously commented on the location of the house before the first crossing of the Pianist River, comments that she saw them at 4 p.m., as I said before, but she says that the day was ugly and cold, the photos of Kris and Lisanne They say the opposite, it was a sunny and clear day, with a little clouds when arriving at the viewpoint. Possibly he was confused about women and daytime. It is very easy to understand, seeing two tall, white, blonde girls pass by your house and then you find out that two girls similar to the ones you saw passing by your house got lost on the pianist's path. As they say, the planets aligned for confusion.

  • @behindthespotlight7983
    @behindthespotlight7983 Год назад +21

    That picture of two members of La Banda N5DS (Ossmond & Herebierto) and the 2 girls in the water? I’d bet my 15 year old Mazda those ARE Kris Kremers & Lisanne Froon.

    • @intergalaktikexplorer5682
      @intergalaktikexplorer5682 3 месяца назад

      who is ossmond and herebierto?

    • @HFNoGood
      @HFNoGood Месяц назад

      @@intergalaktikexplorer5682 that 2 guys who are swiming with K & L

  • @kevanpasco5264
    @kevanpasco5264 7 месяцев назад +4

    Great episode and very informative .

  • @CHillTennisEntertainment
    @CHillTennisEntertainment 2 года назад +24

    One of the best channels on this particular topic! Thank you for all of the work that you have done on the Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon case.👍

  • @mr.b.3633
    @mr.b.3633 Год назад +16

    Thanks for mapping out all the events to this case. This makes me feel more cleare about and gives me new angles to review the case.

  • @nadiagifford9251
    @nadiagifford9251 2 года назад +20

    after years of watching all videos and articles on this , i am definitely convinced the natives and the tour guide guy are the culprits and they know what went on , for sure, no other way possible in my opinion .

  • @leonprentice8371
    @leonprentice8371 2 года назад +15

    Thank you for keeping the case alive

  • @a.e2385
    @a.e2385 9 месяцев назад +4

    son of the guide and two of his friends kidnapped them at the lake and took them hostage for a couple of days before they were used for organ trafickining

  • @Azzsayswhat
    @Azzsayswhat Год назад +13

    The locals were worried this case would ruin their economy/vitality but I wonder in reality what - if anything - has come of the place over the years. Is it worse? Is it declining in tourism?

    • @Yawnyaman
      @Yawnyaman 2 месяца назад +3

      My understanding is that tourism thrives there and the girls are largely forgotten.

    • @HDSME
      @HDSME Месяц назад +2

      ​@Yawnyaman you won't find my daughter's in any of those countrys!!!
      My wife grew up in Panama and she said it a normal every day thing killing tourist
      Drugs human traffic wht did these girls expect?

    • @HDSME
      @HDSME Месяц назад +1

      ​@@Yawnyaman I do not think it thrive s this happens very often

  • @gusifer811
    @gusifer811 11 месяцев назад +6

    To remove all doubts and leaving aside any speculation, let's do something simple, let's take the first photos of the girls, those taken on the plain, before entering the mountainous and jungle area. If you pay attention to the shadows they produce, it is easy to know that the sun was well up, there was almost no shadow. This leads us to say that it was closer to noon, and looking at where the shadow is, I would say that before noon between 10:30 am and 11:00 am, and if we see the last photo before the night ones, the shadow lengthened. Very little, that leads us to think that if the girls were at the viewpoint around 1:00 p.m., the last photo was taken an hour later, which is how long it takes to reach that watercourse, meaning that they would be between 2 to 3 p.m.

    • @Sandoz-tq7qj
      @Sandoz-tq7qj 10 месяцев назад

      What caused their death ?

  • @gusifer811
    @gusifer811 11 месяцев назад +7

    The story of the merchant who said he had seen them and that one was overwhelmed, as if tired. She also said that one of them had a black lycra and we all know that Kris was wearing a red and white striped tank top, and Lisanne was wearing a light blue one. I insist that all the witnesses did not see the Dutch women, they saw two very similar women, with the same characteristics and who could be Danish or from a similar country.

    • @Sandoz-tq7qj
      @Sandoz-tq7qj 10 месяцев назад +3

      No other hiker or hikers have said they met or talked with Kris and Lisanne at anywhere along the trail at anytime. This was strange because april 1 was a sunny day 🌞

  • @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164
    @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164 2 года назад +16

    And I don't know but that day Feliciano had a normal smile and tranquility with a mother and father desperate to find their daughter I don't know but his attitude gave me a bad feeling

    • @mrtm9102
      @mrtm9102 Месяц назад

      I agree with You but it kan be maybe som kind of culture differences like for eksempel i Thailand or something like that..

  • @ronymanuel507
    @ronymanuel507 2 года назад +42

    I am from Panama and it is a pity that authorities here do not do things the right way…. One can’t trust them! Very interesting video! Regards from 🇵🇦…..

    • @PassionForArtCollector
      @PassionForArtCollector 2 года назад +2

      Hi! Since you are from Panama, what do you think happened to the girls?

    • @ronymanuel507
      @ronymanuel507 2 года назад +28

      @@PassionForArtCollector hello! I have never been to the path there in Boquete, but I am almost sure it is not easy to get lost in the path. I and most people here believe that they unfortunately were murde*ed…. For instance, I used to live in Boquete and I saw many times when the indigenous people who come down from the mountain fighting until they start bleeding and the rest of the group of them just watching. Can you imagine two girls there in the forest? Alone? I never went to that path, not even with friends….. I mean, I do not think that the native did something to them, but what I try to tell you is how dangerous it could be. I believe that something scared them or followed them and they could not come back through the path because it would have not been hard to do so. There are so many weird things as the video from the store deleted, the picture from the camera deleted with a computer, the taxi driver (who took them to the path) found drowned one year later……

    • @karimtemri1664
      @karimtemri1664 2 года назад +5

      @@ronymanuel507 also the last guy interviewed looked quite nervous 26:15

    • @areevpsreal9545
      @areevpsreal9545 2 года назад +3

      So can you confirm if there are tribes out there ?

    • @ronymanuel507
      @ronymanuel507 2 года назад +12

      @@areevpsreal9545 yes! There are indigenous people who live there in the mountain in tribes….

  • @rainbowriverclarkbrown
    @rainbowriverclarkbrown 2 года назад +13

    Why would they willingly go off trail?they where only wearing t-shirts and shorts for heaven's sake.There arms and legs would be covered in scratches and insect bites;if they had mismanaged time,I think that they would have sat down on the trail and wait it out till dawn, before deciding on the next move.Of course in due time,a water source,would be required,so maybe a search for water would be necessary?but ploughing through the jungle in the dead of night?in the dark,with no light?I like hiking,and have become disoriented in a forest,but , ploughing through thick jungle?I would sit down re-evaluate the situation and think.

    • @abdarsmk6r
      @abdarsmk6r Год назад +3

      Thats what the parents also said.. you just sleep on the path till the next morning.. why would a newbie go off the path? When you know you risk your life? Even when i see a wild animal. I would still be on the path. I better stay on the path then panicing and run away. And when you do such trials. I would always take a knife with me. You never know who would harm you...

  • @megarichie007
    @megarichie007 7 месяцев назад +3

    Great video BTW the best one on this

  • @findinggspots6441
    @findinggspots6441 2 года назад +16

    If they did this walk so late, why are there pictures in the sunshine on the summit? That makes no sense!

  • @vitalheart061
    @vitalheart061 8 месяцев назад +4

    @BackpackerCoach, I did a video on the subject a couple of years back. My conclusion is they went to El pianista area both on 31st of March and 1st of April. On 31st , they arrived around 14.00 and left 16.20 however they ended up in San Pedro trail which are just next to each other. Eye witneses also mention them asking el Pianista. They returned back to school, searched for the El pianista from school's internet (They searched tripadvisor, google as the footprint says). The next day I believe they arrived at 11ish. I believe shortly after the el pianista hike on 1st of April, they changed locations. Please feel free to watch my analysis. I also came to a final conclusion about the case but I decided not to explain it in another video.

  • @Gingerwhale
    @Gingerwhale 7 месяцев назад +3

    Great presentation. Always stick to the facts. I've been following this case now for almost nine years. Today, 01 April 2014, marks the 10th anniversary of Kris and Lisanne's disappearance. Local witnesses testimony and the doctored photos on Lisanne's Canon camera clearly point towards the abduction and murder theory. As mentioned, the sudden appearance of the packback (with its contents in pristine condition) and bleached human bones were only a means of trying to reduce the strong local and international concerns over the girls disappearance. Funny how it was always the local guide, Feliciano, who would find these items. Finally Lisanne's father now knows what happened to the girls. However he had to sign confidential secret agreement with the Dutch Government.

    • @Sandoz-tq7qj
      @Sandoz-tq7qj 6 месяцев назад +2

      Wow !
      This is the first time I heard '' Lisanne's father now knows what happened '' and had to sign "secret agreement with the Dutch Govt ".
      I always believe there were too many inconsistencies and unexplainable things in the ' lost ' theory. Particularly the fact that Kris and Lisanne each made only one emergency call on the first evening of their disappearance. That is absolutely unreasonable under any circumstances.
      Thank you 📲

    • @Ari-ih2nl
      @Ari-ih2nl 3 месяца назад

      ? Any circumstance ?
      Even when being held by violent captors ?

    • @spaceexploration-Don
      @spaceexploration-Don 2 месяца назад

      So Feliciano is the suspek?!

  • @ChristoDavidson-vp7zy
    @ChristoDavidson-vp7zy Месяц назад +3

    Tourists should boycott the tourism industry to Panama until the truth comes out. 😮

  • @gusifer811
    @gusifer811 11 месяцев назад +5

    Seeing the outfit they had in the restaurant and in the photo with the flamingos, they returned to Myriam's house to change. or the photos are not from that day. In the photos in which they are seen eating in the restaurant, it is seen that they were consulting a map.

  • @kevin.afton_
    @kevin.afton_ Год назад +22

    Very simple case. The proof is on their phones.
    The first day they were kidnapped and either killed or kept alive for a few days, it doesn't matter.
    The kidnappers tried to make it look, in a very amateurish manner nonetheless, that they got lost and wonder around the jungle and then died.
    Of course if you get lost and you have to spend your first night in the cold , scary and dark jungle you are not going to try to call emergency only one time, they must have called it many times if they were "only" lost.

    • @lagitamaoa9155
      @lagitamaoa9155 9 месяцев назад +8

      Absoluty, but people still believe they got injured or lost and then called emergency. Ignoring the fact that never contacted locals or even used WhatsApp. Two girls in their 20s that didnt try to use WhatsApp is ridicioulus

    • @jaga114
      @jaga114 9 месяцев назад +10

      Also @kevinafton5662, if the girls only got lost in the jungle, they would have already taken pictures over the course of the days, and they could have even recorded a farewell video.

    • @Sandoz-tq7qj
      @Sandoz-tq7qj 8 месяцев назад +5

      They should have called a hundred times each.

    • @dishdog215
      @dishdog215 7 месяцев назад +3

      Any normal person would spend the night playing Candy Crush until the battery died... Must be space aliens trafficking in human organs😂

    • @maxsportsman2416
      @maxsportsman2416 4 месяца назад

      @@dishdog215what an idiotic comment

  • @seancidy6008
    @seancidy6008 2 года назад +19

    Ingrid was not there that day. Eileen was, and she phoned F for them to see if he would be available to guide Kris and Lisanne for a hike that day. He said he was at the hospital in a nearby town. I would note that is a way for him to anticipate where they would be a few hours later. 20:22 the owner of a kiosk and the owners of a restaurant that both depend on trade from tourists walking the trail could have no ulterior motive for saying that two girl tourists left the trail safe and sound? _Please._ The Indian rights activist and British journalist missing in the Amazon were murdered by , wait for it, their guide and his brother. Being bounced around a Brazilian police station has a way of getting the truth iut of people. Everyone knows it was a father and son who took Kris and Lisanne's lives. Panama did not want to get to the bottom of it? Very well, but there is no mystery about what happened . Venal local business owners ought to be ashamed of themselves for saying Kris and Lisanne returned from the hike.

    • @seancidy6008
      @seancidy6008 2 года назад

      @@PassionForArtCollectorThey went missing on the 1st, when there was a single attempted emergency call from each girl's phone followed by 14 hours switch off of both phones. The totality of the evidence shows unlikely occurrences pilling up to a mountainous degree until the very fishy the finding of evidence that exculpates a suspect by none other than the very same suspect. That exculpatory evidence shows signs of being staged to mislead? Yes, the phone and camera does. There is an absence of evidence of the girls frantically making calls. No immediate retries of any call attempt, a 14 hour gap the first night (like they were turning in for an early night in a strange jungle), a 22 hour gap the second night. and no attempted calls whatever after the third day. The 'night photos' do not make much sense, but most killers are none too bright, and that includes those who escape justice. It is a forest, you cannot keep cattle in a jungle. According to a tourist, he and his wife were told by a local it was inadvisable to go on the trail the morning after (before the girls had been reported missing) because farmers living around the trail had heard screams in the area during the night. Another ten nights with one of them still alive and operating a phone supposedly. To last tens days you would have to start pretty strong, and surely could scream more that one night did they both start hallucinating after 24 hours? Bear in mind that during the day locals are going about their business along little paths that crisscross the area. Calls early on the day they disappeared to F may by the girls or Eileen actin on their behalf have enabled out friend to discern where they were going on the hike and to waylay them. There is an absence of evidence of the girls frantically making calls; no immediate retries of any call attempt, a 14 hour gap the first night (like they were turning in for an early night in a strange jungle), a 22 hour gap the second night. and no attempted calls whatever after the third day, although the night photos were on the 8th and one phone was being switched on on the 11th. If a double accident, it's one with a unique lack of evidence for it being so. Two young women just disappear. Their remains get found by a suspect, but their cause of death is impossible to determine because there are only fragments of the skeletons found, and the phone logs show they at least one was alive while people were combing the area calling for them. And the phone and camera turn up at almost the same place as the bones. Between the 2nd and the 3rd Froons's phone was left on for 15 hours, that is why its battery was dead on the 4th. No texts composed and no video message plus an absence of evidence of the girls frantically making calls on the first day as they surely would have, the battery of Lisanne's phone was not run down by the end; hardly an indication it was Kris or Lisanne using it. Consider, them giving up trying to make any calls after three days and going over a week without making an attempted emergency call although the phone was being used by someone. What is brought forward as evidence of no foul play in this case does not stand up as what it seems to be when you look more closely. Him, by his own account while on the trail with Kris's parents, hang chose the correct trail to go looking for them on the 3rd, and the fibs to cops about Eileen having enlightened him about that, permit a powerful adverse inference. A _F_ather and son team of guides feeling secure in the area they know better than anyone and closer than any gang members could be? You betcha

    • @seancidy6008
      @seancidy6008 2 года назад +7

      @@PassionForArtCollector Kris's family are good people, and all the better for not being quick to see the bad in anyone, including Panamanians. However, there simply are no precedents for what the parents _apparently_ believe to have happened (two young optimistic physically fit girls disappearing and being inside the search area for days without calling and the remains being in a condition that made establishing a cause of death impossible). The phones and camera turning up are like a found footage horror movie, but when did such a thing actually occur? Guides would know about phone reception areas, and this particular one had told journalists he met Kris and Lisanne, which he now denies. The Kryt articles note that he was absent from the early searches, but he was incredibly successful just as soon as Kris's parents paid him and upped the reward. And by the way Kris's father is dubious about our freind's supposed arrangements with the girls as that would be a lot of trips. The most salient facts are that the phone call from Eileen enquiring if he was available for an unplanned trip may have let him surmise where they might be hours later, and he knew there was no phone reception down there, thereby making a lost deception to explain their deaths a practicable proposition. Lo and behold people associated with him find the backpack, and then he finds the first remains and first clothing/footwear. He found one boot of each girl within 48 hours, and was there when Kris's pelvic fragment was -planted- found.

    • @seancidy6008
      @seancidy6008 2 года назад +5

      @@PassionForArtCollectorIf it was not F & son it was absolutely an accident. Jeremy Kryt found the people in Boquete (apart from the authorities) were saying it was F, who by the way has a certain reputation among tourist businesses that had caused him to be backlisted by agencies and refused entry to hotels. The news is full of the eco campaigner and British reporters being murdered in a remote area by their guide and his brother. Panama does not have police force or an army it has a multi role paramilitary force with little expertise in investigatory detective work. As the old saw has it ' jack of all trades master of none'. Panama did not want to know, so the persons of interest were not bounced around the police station, which is the normal procedure, even in places like Italy when there is the amount of circumstantial evidence against them that there is for you know who. To say it was a crime by anyone else is the very wildest of speculations.

    • @seancidy6008
      @seancidy6008 2 года назад +3

      @@PassionForArtCollector One can be passionate about things other than art.

    • @PassionForArtCollector
      @PassionForArtCollector 2 года назад

      @@seancidy6008 Indeed, but it becomes very unclear when somebody just randomly rambles around and does not react on the given content-related responses.

  • @gracerios1342
    @gracerios1342 Год назад +8

    The 31st of March they did climb and came back safely. On April 1st the guarderia said no not on today. There was no volunteer work for them that day in morning. Then they went to Eileen were they be on WIFI . They took swim suits and snacks went to pharmacy. Restaurant El sabroson. Then to they called cab with Leonardo, who died year later drop them to lake in Rio encantado sorry caldera. And there was were they left in red pick up by some weird Holland guy. They trusted

  • @seoul_mate
    @seoul_mate 2 года назад +9

    Thank you so much for this nice, long video. Always a pleasure to listen to you.

  • @simdal3088
    @simdal3088 2 года назад +23

    You killed me with the intro lmao

  • @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164
    @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164 2 года назад +11

    The same when they interviewed Diego, I think he was called a guide, I don't know if he is Feliciano's son. His behavior was even more suspicious, avoiding questions. Another thing, the two young men from the river

  • @adalineproulx9773
    @adalineproulx9773 Год назад +12

    I honestly think they did their hike and someone picked them up and thats when they went missing. I think the taxi driver knew but coicidentally he died shortly after....

  • @roemsengaming
    @roemsengaming Год назад +10

    Hey, thanks for the video.
    In the pictures, the shadows are still relatively short because the sun is still (relatively) high up. That doesn't quite fit the theory a la "they only went out late in the afternoon". On the other hand, if you look at all the photos, Lisanne has the wristbands on while eating. But in photo 483 (485?) you can't see them. And on top of the "summit" they can be seen again. What is the probability of taking something like that off on the way (because it's too hot?), but putting it back on at the top...? 0%? 5%? Uff...

    • @kennethmacalpin7655
      @kennethmacalpin7655 11 месяцев назад +5

      The photos have been re-arranged, the order is suspect. You mention the bracelets, I would also draw your attention to the backpack, and their hairstyles.

  • @PassionForArtCollector
    @PassionForArtCollector 2 года назад +31

    Thank you @BackpackerCoach for making this fantastic and transparent overview & timeline of what happened to the girls. For me there are now 3 definitive possibilities left of what truly could have happened to the girls.
    1) The La banda 'Los ND5 got to them.
    2) An indigenous tribe got hold of them.
    3) Unknown person(s) got them.
    Possibility 2 the involvement of an indigenous tribe ticks all the correct boxes for me of what truly could have happened to them.
    *It explains the night photo’s.
    *It explains the fact why the girls still had acces to their phones.
    *It explains the multiple unidentified bones from other individuals found next to Kris her remains.
    *It explains the missing camera footage of the girls in the store, missing picture 509, the threatening of the lawyer, and the coverup of the multiple witness testimonies by Panama’s government.
    *It explains the strange behavior of Feliciano.
    *It explains the weird night photo’s.
    *And it even explains the fact that there were multiple fingerprints found on their perfectly pristine and clean backpack. A backpack that conveniently and suddenly appeared out of nowhere, while al this time the content was complete and perfectly folded. After laying there for weeks in a jungle that supposably can fully decompose a human body but cannot pollute a backpack ;)
    I mean what would they care right? They are people from an indigenous tribe after all.

    • @sandramyers1562
      @sandramyers1562 2 года назад +10

      I used to be a believer in the lost theorie
      But after hearing al these testimonies
      The very doable walkthrough of the Pianista trail and this video
      I do believe that a third party is responsible for the disappearance of Kris and Lisanne

    • @apostolospapachristos2287
      @apostolospapachristos2287 2 года назад +14

      Ok but how people from an indigenous tribe knew how to delete photo(509)...beacause to be definetily deleted it need to be done by plugging to a computer

    • @PassionForArtCollector
      @PassionForArtCollector 2 года назад +2

      @@apostolospapachristos2287 Panama’s government could have done this, and here is some motivation for them to do so;
      “Around 90% of Panama’s yearly gross national income comes directly from tourism.”
      Knowing this would a national government want a story to go around in which there are some raping, murdering, torturing, kidnapping, and possibly satanic indigenous tribes that capture tourists from the the jungle?

    • @apostolospapachristos2287
      @apostolospapachristos2287 2 года назад +2

      @@PassionForArtCollector ok you are right... but why some bones of the girls was found (what about the others ) and what about the skin? Also why the bag didnt had any damage and why the items were found there?

    • @PassionForArtCollector
      @PassionForArtCollector 2 года назад +5

      @@apostolospapachristos2287 This is al speculation of course, but the various unidentified bones could have been from other victims, they could even been from local cartels that walk around between Panama and Costa Rica.
      The roll of skin has been proven to be from an animal, I thought from a cow.
      A possibility for the backpack to be in perfect shape could have been because people from the tribe confiscated it while capturing the girls.

  • @tobiasobermayr501
    @tobiasobermayr501 9 месяцев назад +3

    One thing most incredible is that the bodies are basically gone completely and scattered bones (must have been animals/ strong water and that only along 1 river then) so then you need to see bite marks on the bones. And the backpack and insides would for sure be in bad condition with strong humidity and rains. Seems like the minimum of remains and a clear sign, the backpack - the minimum of evidence which still leaves no doubt it's them.

  • @InspektoraDeFrutas.
    @InspektoraDeFrutas. 2 года назад +15

    Who goes hiking after 4pm?!?!?
    That’s the time normal people already seriously head BACK!
    Sheer stupidity? Or something more?... 🤔🤔🤔

  • @johnholmesinchesahead342
    @johnholmesinchesahead342 4 месяца назад +8

    Oddly, many backpackers visiting the UK have gone missing recently - showing up again in rural Rwanda! Weird!

  • @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164
    @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164 2 года назад +7

    It is not possible that things like that were not said, the lady should have described her clothes, etc., she only said I saw her come up with clothes not suitable for the trip, but what clothes was she wearing? This is not a lie.

  • @InspektoraDeFrutas.
    @InspektoraDeFrutas. 2 года назад +15

    The whole story, with all the “witness testimonies” seems incredibly shady, I just don’t believe any one of them.
    It’s like literally all of them had conspired or were intimidated to tell this particular story.
    Because no grown person in their right mind, who are not drunk or on drugs, would go hiking at 4:30 PM voluntarily.
    Especially in the jungle.
    At this time all normal people are usually *already heading back down* from mountain trails.
    In fact, normal people go hiking at 8 or 9 in the morning.
    And it didn’t seem to me that this girl words were completely insane or lacked any logical common sense.
    At least hopefully not.
    So I believe they had to fully realize that it is impossible to hike down a jungle trail once it’s starts getting dark…
    Plus, as far as I understand, they had absolutely zero hiking equipment, not even the flashlight.
    It sounds like a very very convoluted and impossible to solve supernatural thriller book.
    I don’t think anybody will solve this case while we are in this world.

    • @thestoryperson4926
      @thestoryperson4926 2 года назад +6

      yeah, as many theories as there are, the girls going hiking at 4:30 in a jungle seems ridiculous. to me, it seems as though either the girls began their hike at 11:00 - 1:00 (which would discount all the witnesses testimonies who stated they were ascending the trail, rather than returning), or they did not go hiking at all (which would mean all the photos were staged to make it look like they did). something about this case just has me wrapped up in it though. trying to figure out everything, even though there isn't enough information available to solve it.

    • @InspektoraDeFrutas.
      @InspektoraDeFrutas. 2 года назад +2

      @@thestoryperson4926
      Yes I totally agree with you. There are too many shady areas, and too many coverups, and because we’re not there personally and the corrupt police has never been truly willing to cooperate and solve this case, I have made my peace with the fact that no human being will get to the truth of the story until this world is over and everything comes to light!
      The fact that 4 men are already dead and the 5th one disappeared this year, who lost saw the girls and took them swimming that evening, tells me everything I needed to know!
      I have already made my conclusion, but the details we won’t know until later.
      So, until then, I have left it alone, because I have spent too many hours on it a few weeks ago already. To no avail.
      May the souls of the poor unwise girls rest in peace, and may their families find peace and comfort, until everything is found out.
      Be blessed! 👋💐

    • @thestoryperson4926
      @thestoryperson4926 2 года назад +3

      @@InspektoraDeFrutas. yeah, well said. i've been looking at this case off and on for a few years, and a ton of hours into it as well. hoping for fresh info at some point, but you're probably right. not gonna get enough

    • @InspektoraDeFrutas.
      @InspektoraDeFrutas. 2 года назад +1

      @@thestoryperson4926
      Check out the YT channel alternate theories.
      Everything has already been solved and it’s known who did it and how!
      May the families have peace.

    • @jenshoefer7944
      @jenshoefer7944 Год назад +3

      Yeah, that old lady with that pink hat told total crap, checking back the weather on that day, it was sunny and light clouds

  • @thomaslippold281
    @thomaslippold281 2 года назад +16

    About 2pm call between Kris and her boyfriend: Imperfect plan had insight into the phone history of the Panamanian officials and state, that THERE WAS NO INCOMING OR OUTGOING CALL ON 1ST OF APRIL AROUND 2PM. The parents are obviously mistaken about the time. Maybe they calculated forward instead of backwards.
    Your work is excellent. Long time overdue this overwiev of all witness statements.
    What about the guide who told a French couple about screams and sounds that had been heard in the jungle.

    • @BackpackerCoach
      @BackpackerCoach  2 года назад +5

      I would not have been a call. I would have been through one of her apps she used. Most likely through whats app.

    • @InspektoraDeFrutas.
      @InspektoraDeFrutas. 2 года назад +7

      @@BackpackerCoach
      Hey there!
      Do you also believe then (just like Juan) that the photos from the la pianista trail were photoshopped?
      That’s the only explanation which would make it possible that they didn’t go to the second trail that afternoon.
      Because there are in fact tons of photos of the girls taken there, whether photoshopped or real.

  • @siouxjoao9489
    @siouxjoao9489 Год назад +5

    Great video! That's absolutly grisly case.😮

  • @abdarsmk6r
    @abdarsmk6r Год назад +6

    We all know deep down they got murdered! Or something happened bad tp them! You cant get lost when you walk the pianista route. There is just one route going up and going back. And it make no sense to go off the path. When your a newbie... thats the dumbest thing you can do. You just take the path back to bougete.. why would a newbie risk his life to go off the path and check something else lol know one would do that. Yeah if you want to found death. And the girls are pretty smart!

  • @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164
    @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164 2 года назад +9

    They walked the path with Feliciano and two guides, one Feliciano knows very well how to manipulate these types of digital cameras and cell phones, I imagine, of good quality Samsung. At one point they put on. To be discussed

  • @das_loewenmaeulchen
    @das_loewenmaeulchen 3 месяца назад +7

    Hey man, a good quality video and not the usual xth copy&paste rehash of the case as it is usually found here. Thx for your work ! I thought the carpet intro was already nice and that you showed the area of Boquete on the map. I had not seen that before in such detail and well imaginable and I will also watch your other vids on the case. Best regards from Germany 🙌 !

  • @gusifer811
    @gusifer811 11 месяцев назад +3

    It is clear that the two women who spoke with Pedro, at the entrance to the flax stone path, were not Kris and Lisanne, it says that they were carrying a black backpack and we know that the Dutch women were carrying a blue one. This reaffirms the idea that there were two very similar women, possibly Danish, who were in the pianist's area but much later. In Central America, it is not so common to see women with the appearance of Kris and Lisanne, they attract a lot of attention, that is why in my opinion they saw two white and blonde girls and related them. The schedules and phone and camera data do not match, as well as the data given by the taxi driver.

  • @lnieves419
    @lnieves419 Год назад +13

    This is just PURE speculation and conjecture...but around 43:56 where you start discussing the possibility of the girls being abducted by an indigenous tribe, I've always wondered if Feliciano had some sort of relationship with those people. For him to be the guide that he was for as long as he was, to have all of the involvement that he did in this from being the "hired" guide to looking through their bedrooms to finding their remains and etc, I've always wondered if maybe he was somehow working with or had some type of relationship with a/the tribe(s). He would have been an easy person to pass anything to who could get it back to his own home (NOT all that far away from the discovery of the remains) and that could account for the potential that Lisanne's foot could have been refrigerated to slow decomp, Kris's pelvis could have had a chemical agent added that caused the bleaching and quickened decomp, the ability to delete a photo by plugging the camera into the computer, the backpack and all of its contents being undamaged or having any signs of weathering or mold/mildew, his ability to control the narrative, even having a woman from the tribe turn in the pack...I could continue. AGAIN, this is COMPLETE and utter speculation, but so far it's the ONLY theory that I can find the most possibilities for before I hit that inevitable wall that we do with every other theory where it stops seeming plausible.

    • @carlosbrizuela6521
      @carlosbrizuela6521 Год назад +6

      Guia F. Y familiares tienen propiedades en el área de Alto Romero, ademas son empleadores allí; es clara su influencia sobre la comunidad índigena que vive en la zona.
      Escucha los audios de "lost in Panamá", hay muchos datos interesantes como este.

    • @Ari-ih2nl
      @Ari-ih2nl 3 месяца назад

      But. Why. ?!?!
      Opportunity for the crime has been established but not motive
      No money was taken from the girls , the girls were not sold for money , and a murder on the trail could only cause F to lose tourist money So what is the motive ?

  • @john404201
    @john404201 Год назад +6

    This has alway been a sad thing for me. It really breaks my heart. R.I.P. Both of you.

  • @thomasl.2202
    @thomasl.2202 8 месяцев назад +3

    Thanks for your video

  • @georgeholloway3981
    @georgeholloway3981 2 года назад +59

    I've watched to the end, and I'm amazed and shocked by the consistency of the narrative that can be constructed if one takes all the witness statements seriously. I have watched tens of videos on this case and you are the first person to draw all this testimony together in this way. Who saw them (or someone wearing similar clothing) at the Rock, and at what time?

    • @SimpleLifeAlways81
      @SimpleLifeAlways81 Год назад +2

      Wow!

    • @AnnaLee33
      @AnnaLee33 9 месяцев назад +1

      There are time stamps on the photos, you know, and they place them on the summit around 1 pm. Around 4 pm, they made the first emergency call, whilst the witnesses claim they have seen them.

  • @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164
    @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164 2 года назад +7

    I am from Panama, there are no tribes of cannibal Indians or rabbit Indians, perhaps it was the time of the Spanish conquest and that remained as a story or fable so that the children do not behave. bad. besides the people

    • @areevpsreal9545
      @areevpsreal9545 2 года назад +2

      Do you think the indigenous tribes would sacrifice anyone? Do they have any weird beliefs? I think the tribe theory is a good one and explains a lot but would be good to hear from more people who live Panama if things like this actually go on? I think it was either a sexual assault/rape/murder and they either burned or buried the bodies or it was the tribes who got them and maybe done a sacrifice of some point...

    • @alexxxaification
      @alexxxaification 2 года назад

      @@areevpsreal9545 ridiculous racist theory

    • @areevpsreal9545
      @areevpsreal9545 2 года назад

      @@alexxxaification what is ?

  • @blancdelarocha9863
    @blancdelarocha9863 2 года назад +19

    Cover up and very sure was not first time other girls had disappeared. This case closed even when proof was presented, parents just did not want to continue. Sad but these girls were tortured n killed by someone they trusted.

  • @timmo491
    @timmo491 Год назад +7

    You 'don't think they would be hitchhiking because they would know better'? That's not analysis. They wouldn't have been backpacking on their own as two young foreign students in a crime-infested backwater at all if they had 'known better' would they? None of these witnesses is reliable they'll say literally anything for a few bucks for an interview. I know the place well.

    • @Ari-ih2nl
      @Ari-ih2nl 3 месяца назад +2

      One of the girls writes in her diary that they did indeed hitchhike earlier in the trip

    • @timmo491
      @timmo491 3 месяца назад

      @@Ari-ih2nl indeed

  • @Alexa-Saja58
    @Alexa-Saja58 Месяц назад +2

    If you watch alternate theories part 2.
    He goes through the photos and proves, they returned from the hike. It’s worth going into. Now I know what happened. And that is so sad. The tour guide that gained acess to their place made it seem like they never returned.

  • @PassionForArtCollector
    @PassionForArtCollector 2 года назад +16

    Very interesting subject, just watched the first 10 minutes and I already can see all the work and effort you have put into this, watching the rest now and will give my reaction ASAP🍿🥤😎👍🏻

    • @iiLoveAutumn
      @iiLoveAutumn 2 года назад +2

      no reaction made "asap"

    • @InspektoraDeFrutas.
      @InspektoraDeFrutas. 2 года назад +1

      @@iiLoveAutumn
      Perhaps he’s still figuring it out! What his reaction is.

    • @iiLoveAutumn
      @iiLoveAutumn 2 года назад +1

      @@InspektoraDeFrutas. Yes!

  • @miklooo8080
    @miklooo8080 2 года назад +14

    its strange first sos call was made 16:39, then they had not even reached the top, why call sos and continue upwards if they were in danger or hurt themselves why did they not go back immediately

  • @romraptor
    @romraptor 2 года назад +28

    Great work! So much easier to follow along when someone uses maps.

  • @march1326
    @march1326 2 года назад +10

    New speculation that makes the timeline work is that their trek was actually in March 31.

    • @Ari-ih2nl
      @Ari-ih2nl 3 месяца назад +2

      Possible & yet this is not reflected in their diary entries for that day

  • @fransopdien2198
    @fransopdien2198 10 месяцев назад +2

    They would not start a hike at 4 pm because it will be dark around 6 pm, panama in in the tropics

  • @Kanarie1973
    @Kanarie1973 2 года назад +15

    Shop Owner Frank Rosa talks about one girl wearing black lycra. Lisanne nor Kris wore black lycra. I think he saw another couple of girls. Besides, Lisanne and Kris were too responsible to go up the Pianista trail that late in the afternoon. They checked the hike on forehand: it's 2 or 3 hrs up the mountain and the same amount of time back. They would not be back before dark. Personally, I think they never went up the Pianista trail but were kidnapped on the road between casa Pedro and the start of the Pianista Trail. Matches the description of the witness that saw them 'hitchhiking'. I think they were tired of waiting for a taxi at Casa Pedro and decided they had a better chance at the Pianista Trail to take a taxi or bus back. Maybe along the road a car stopped and they got in.

    • @InspektoraDeFrutas.
      @InspektoraDeFrutas. 2 года назад +3

      Yes I also believe this is a very viable explanation.
      What about all those photos obviously taken at the second trail though?
      Do you also believe they were photoshopped, like Juan?

    • @Kanarie1973
      @Kanarie1973 2 года назад +3

      @@InspektoraDeFrutas. At first I didn't think so, but the EXIF-data is so messed up and Juan makes valid points about the time between some photo's, that I changed my mind. Yes, the weird pictures are photoshopped. Someone wanted to tell a story about the girls being lost on the Pianista Trail.

    • @InspektoraDeFrutas.
      @InspektoraDeFrutas. 2 года назад +1

      @@Kanarie1973
      I don’t know, sometimes it kind of seems too far of a stretch for them to have Photoshopped the photos!
      Do you really think those people have such advanced Photoshop skills and computers etc.?
      Somehow that seems doubtful.
      Actually I came across this theory and it seems very viable:
      They were *5 men* who were involved. (Called “Gang Sinco”)
      Four of them are dead now. The fifth one is the tour guide’s son.
      I have their names, but it’s too long to type.
      But all this info is available In others’ pages, who have been doing their investigations...
      *The girls were seen back in town* after they came back from the trail❗️🚨
      So the “got lost, got injured, died of starvation“ option already fell away for good.
      The tour guide’s son drove them back to the guest house to pick up their swimsuits, after which they went swimming with these 5 UNFAMILIAR MEN! 😳
      *Zero wisdom and foresight* on the women’s part.
      Obviously, the men tried to have sex with them there, and that’s where things went wrong, because obviously the girls refused.
      There was a woman who testified to all of this, she dated one of these mafia men.
      She said that after the girls were raped and held captive, they were *organ-harvested* and then the remains were scattered throughout the jungle to cover up the tracks…
      She told this story, then fled the country and found asylum in Costa Rica.

    • @kennethmacalpin7655
      @kennethmacalpin7655 Год назад

      @@InspektoraDeFrutas. I'm happy to believe the photos were renamed, rearranged and deleted. But actually photoshopped? It's too far-fetched. I doubt this gang of local gangbanger creeps are photoshop experts. The theory is one of them is Feliciano's son and he covered for his son, but I don't believe Feliciano is a photoshop expert either. So did they hire one? I doubt they'd have the money and that would be a huge risk getting someone independent involved. That leaves corrupt police. Yes I'm sure corrupt police could hire a photoshop expert, but would they really go to all that trouble and risk?

  • @AA-yj8tp
    @AA-yj8tp 9 месяцев назад +3

    I just don't understand, they went Panama to learn spanish or teach English, why would they pick a country with full of danger, what did they think, that they are going Paradis, 2 young naive girl from western countries, pls educate yourself fist before running to south America or meadl east, why their parents would agree with this trip, i was 26 years old and wanted to travel Mexico with my boyfriend, but no matter what my father didn't let me, i was upset at him but now i am greatfull 💯, my boyfriend and one of my other friend did go and after one month my friend got malaria and they sent her home with emergency flight. These South American countries are well known for selling organs and dese ountries are corrupted from top to bottom! These 2 young and healthy girls were great target for them, my their soul RIP and hope haven't gone through suffering much😢

  • @solangelauthier2381
    @solangelauthier2381 5 месяцев назад +5

    How could 2 inexperienced in teaching + non native English speakers TEACH English ?

  • @rotkatzeredcat4284
    @rotkatzeredcat4284 Месяц назад +1

    A small couple of things. Kris and Lisanne (Pron Lisahnah) were to teach the school children English. They hoped to expand on their knowledge of Spanish while there. (Of course they spoke Dutch.)

  • @chrisguzzy3732
    @chrisguzzy3732 4 месяца назад +3

    Great analysis brother.

  • @gusifer811
    @gusifer811 11 месяцев назад +2

    According to Jose Morales, he saw them late in the afternoon and spoke with them, who supposedly saw them come down from the mountain. One of the local residents, a woman who has her house just before the suspension bridge that crosses the Pianista River before the local village, said she saw the girls enter around 4 p.m. and commented that it was too late to do the job. trail and that they were not dressed appropriately. Returning to the above, it is not possible that it was them due to the schedules, times collected by the metadata taken from the devices and photos taken.

  • @Oilcanhenry58
    @Oilcanhenry58 5 месяцев назад +2

    I wonder if the cannibalism theory is true, and the backpack was left where the tribe abducted the girls (they would have no use or desire to with the backpack), and later on, some locals came across it, held onto it, fucked with the electronics for whatever reason; and when there was the deal with a reward etc., they decided to try and cash in by “finding” the backpack. I don’t know! What I do know is their deaths were NOT an accident and there are locals that know faaaaar more than what is being shared.

  • @iiLoveAutumn
    @iiLoveAutumn 2 года назад +9

    I dont think cannibalistic tribes have photoshop

  • @ColleenLytle-sq8tx
    @ColleenLytle-sq8tx 4 месяца назад +2

    The "S's" become a whistle that goes right through my head like a spear. Ouch. Thank you for keeping the girls in the news/media.

  • @nigelhaywood9753
    @nigelhaywood9753 Месяц назад +1

    The times on the photos are the most reliable source.

  • @gusifer811
    @gusifer811 11 месяцев назад +2

    There is a theory and it is possible that in Boquete there were two tourists very similar to the Dutch women, it is said that they were Danish, with a very similar appearance and easy to confuse. The times given by the taxi driver and the witnesses seeing them enter the path do not coincide with the metadata of the phones and the camera. In addition, they analyzed the sun and the shadows and came to the conclusion that at the time they saw them, they were already very inside the path and in some data, they had already made emergency calls.

  • @georgeholloway3981
    @georgeholloway3981 2 года назад +16

    This is extraordinarily useful. Well done. Just a slight request, when you say things like, "They think", or "we think", or "we know", or "it's said that" etc. that you try to keep track of the source for the information. It would be great to know specifically who testified that something is the case (for example, the claim about talking to the "strange men" in the restaurant). There is so much hearsay in this case, and so much contradictory evidence, it would be good to be able to assess the reliability of the various bits of information we have.

    • @georgeholloway3981
      @georgeholloway3981 2 года назад +9

      Later on you are more specific, which is great. The variance in the witness accounts is truly baffling.

    • @BackpackerCoach
      @BackpackerCoach  2 года назад +6

      Although true. It is very difficult to show all the sources in this kind of format. Like I said before I had to simplify it some for RUclips. If you what all the info read Scarlet R. blog.
      koudekaas.blogspot.com/2021/03/update-march-19th-2021_1.html

  • @jerrymarbury9365
    @jerrymarbury9365 Год назад +3

    Really good upload.thank u

  • @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164
    @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164 2 года назад +5

    In my opinion, they happened much earlier, according to your view of the map, the time of the emergency call does not coincide with the walk of the girls, only that when they called the emergency room, they were already in danger.

  • @Kolibrisoundz
    @Kolibrisoundz 9 месяцев назад +4

    They didn't made it to the trail? How they made the pictures then? :D :D YOu killin me men...

  • @rod7177
    @rod7177 6 месяцев назад +3

    Fell prey to an indigenous tribe. Based on this vid, this is what I believe happened.

  • @YoutubeTravelerSoloVagabond
    @YoutubeTravelerSoloVagabond 2 года назад +14

    Check this out... the lady with the purple hat, she seems to give a very detailed account of her interaction with the two girls, so detailed that i have a difficult time believing its real and she's just going on TV for publicity, like she would watch every person who walked by on the trail? lol

  • @andradas9688
    @andradas9688 9 месяцев назад +2

    Excellent video!
    We need to watch what the witnesses who live by the trails reported. The official timeline is absolutely correct, no mystery there. The problem is later. From the beginning: they were dropped by the taxi at the starting point of two possible trails at about 1h30pm. One trail you would climb and eventually see the entire Boquete community from the top. The other was the Pianista trail. The girls went for the climb, but instead of going all the way up to see the city, they cut the hike short. A woman saw them coming back, and this was around 2h30pm. The woman said later that it was impossible that the girls had gone to the top and come back in one hour or so. In other words, the girls decided to abort the first hike. That's why Frank Rosa (the owner of the shop) said the girls seemed to have hiked already. Then the girls stayed there for a while and started a new hike, this time the Pianist trail. A woman who lives by the entrance of the Pianist trail did see the girls and was concerned because it was late to start that trail. But the woman pointed out she didn't speak english and did not say a word to the girls. This was already 4h00pm or later. In other words, the timeline of the girls itinerary is perfectly coherent up to their initial emergency calls.

    • @zane___k7333
      @zane___k7333 6 месяцев назад

      The problem with this theory is the images on the camera

    • @andradas9688
      @andradas9688 6 месяцев назад

      ​@@zane___k7333 i saw your message on the other video. Was the mother of the gang member interviewed again? If her son did say the girls were killed, her statement should be made public and more people should talk to her.

    • @andradas9688
      @andradas9688 6 месяцев назад

      @@zane___k7333 since you are commenting on the case, i have pointed out that I see an eye staring at the camera in the photo of Kris' hair. It is as if Lisane was holding the camera and took a selfie, with the body of Kris on her arms. It could be someone else taking the picture as well. More people have pointed out the eye on the left of the picture years ago.

    • @zane___k7333
      @zane___k7333 6 месяцев назад +1

      @andradas9688 firstly panama isn't the United States. Or europe. If we create a basic model based on what happened taking into account human behaviour, the mothers story matches up. The mysterious deaths of all the people who had first hand contact with the girls. It adds up. These girls were 21. Beautiful. European. I believe they are friendly with the guy whose picture they can be seen with, in the river. The authorities have said the images aren't of the girls but have never said how they knew that. I believe the main guide is covering up. I believe one guy got jealous of these two beautiful girls choosing to spend time with osman. In order to be in the river with them, they'd have to have some level of trust. I believe like the mother said, they were invited to a party where another jealous man, possibly the son of the guide, made advances. I believe the girls rejected. The advances. I believe the guy got angry and lashed out. Then his father, the guide, decided to step in. I found it strange how the guide was always involved in the investigation. From my observation, when people are really close to a case which they aren't directly connected to. Typically, they are trying to steer the direction. Also, he was the person who found all the bones. Also i found it interesting how proactive he was when the girls didn't turn up to his tour. Visiting their rooms, etc.. i thought that was a little odd. Things like this happen in plsces like india. So , by observing the human aspect, we can create a model. I do believe the images were faked. I believe they wanted to sleep with the girls. The girls refused. They got angry. One thing led to another. Tried burying it. Which explains chemical decomposition. I think deep down most people know this isn't an accident. But i think people are focusing a lot on the evidence. For example, witnesses said they were picked up by a red car. Yet i haven't heard any connection or search for such. Also, they have camera evidence of then in a shop, yet the police "accidentally" deleted it. There are too many inconsistencies.

    • @zane___k7333
      @zane___k7333 6 месяцев назад

      @andradas9688 The day the girls went missing. The images have them as reaching the summit at 11:30.. so the girls hike twice. Once on march 31st and another at the first. The reason is. Like many witnesses said. The weather was not very good. However in the images we can see a bright sunny day. So that tells us they attempt it. However the weather was not very well and returned, which lines up with a lot of what the witness has said.. Which is why witnesses have said it's was impossible to make the treck in such a short time. As the photographic evidence has shown the weather was very clear on that day.

  • @BlackSwan-gt5om
    @BlackSwan-gt5om 2 года назад +11

    Thank you for your eye opening work! 🌷This makes sense...maybe they never hiked that trail. Maybe they were abducted by a indigenous tribe...this kind of wildlings wearing suits or uniforms and used to get whatever they are lusting for and have the connections and possibilities to cover all their sins. Yes, now I follow the "tribe-theory". 😒

    • @briqoozz2704
      @briqoozz2704 2 года назад +1

      There is a pyshic on YT who made a video on these girls, Sloan. And what she is seeing. Its very interesting.

  • @wrangelinhabitant161
    @wrangelinhabitant161 2 года назад +7

    Could the indian woomwn lie about seeing the girls there so late because of Feliciano?

  • @ProgressIsTheOnlyEvolution
    @ProgressIsTheOnlyEvolution 8 месяцев назад +2

    Great video. It can be hard to know specifically what happened, but regardless of which scenario you look at the only thing which makes sense here, is foul play and murder and a cover up. And that makes it even more crazy that you have the local authorities being so fast to conclude a accident of getting lost, and even many online who believe this scenario though it makes absolutely no sense given the evidence.
    I don't believe the girls were taken by tribal cannibals, it is more likely than they were taken by wild animals and died from being lost, but I don't think this is the most probable scenario.
    The most likely scenarios is either that they were taken after going swimming with the two dead guys, or hitching a ride back from Il Pianista by someone they knew, or was taken by someone they knew shortly after the last place they were seen on the trail. Only the hitch back scenario would indicate real pictures, the other two would require fake edited pictures for the trail.
    I am not convinced by the pictures and this is why I don't think they got far up Il Pianista, which tells me that they never made it to the summit, and so took a ride after El Pianista either out by the swimming area in Caldera or somewhere else, but since the two guys at Caldera is dead and so much was done to indicate they were not at Caldera, I think the last place the girls may have been was at Caldera and that they then were either kidnapped by someone the knew, the two guys they were with who later died, or one of the local gangs or all of the above. For there is a lot of indication that both the two guys they swam with and even the son of the tour guide was involved in a gang together which may have gotten Osman killed too just a few days later.

  • @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164
    @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164 2 года назад +4

    Poisoned. Many say it was a heart attack. The thing that the three of them died, how strange is that. I always thought that the girls from the river were really Dutch and they were there without their will

  • @michaelfrey7373
    @michaelfrey7373 2 года назад +5

    Good Work Coach ! Looking forward to see your Vid from the Girls Room :)

    • @екатеринаалексан-ц8я
      @екатеринаалексан-ц8я Год назад +3

      А что вам не понятно на счёт комнаты, когда девушки пропали там гид не один раз приходил и рылся в их вещах. Первый раз гид рылся когда девушки пропали, он сразу пришёл к ним в комнату. Второй раз его полиция отправила за документами, хотя они сами должны были произвести обыск. Гид очень подозрительный. Девушки исчезли а он у них в комнате роется, возможно он что то с фотографиями делал мы же не знаем. Но действия и поведение гида очень странное.

  • @HDSME
    @HDSME Месяц назад +1

    You get lost on a 4 hr day trip which required no guide to begin with you get lost or hurt you call. 911???? 112 ? Your in town 3 weeks know dozens of people
    Why not call your hotel? Or your guide ? You not far from town ?
    Ridiculous realy call the motel ask to send help or guides or police

  • @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164
    @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164 2 года назад +3

    That she wasn't there in the room. As she saw that she wasn't there, she assumed that she was still there in the mountain, that's why she went to look for her alone on day 2, very strange.

  • @kennethmacalpin7655
    @kennethmacalpin7655 Год назад +3

    The parents seem confused about whether Kris spoke to her boyfriend at 14:00 Dutch time or 14:00 Panamanian time. 14:00 Dutch time they would still be in bed, or at least still in the hostel. When did they leave the hostel?

  • @tobiasobermayr501
    @tobiasobermayr501 9 месяцев назад +1

    The Indigenous People theory: Of course the guide could be covering up for them if they have some kind of understanding and get the backpack from the room to put it there (is it on any pics?!) or at least cover up and arrange the finding of the backpack (which he did?). The strange night pictures would also be explained!! Either the 2 girls took them when in captivity / lost or the indigenous people didn't know how to operate a camera or phone and just enjoyed the flashlight. Emergency calls suggest the girls had the phones (perhaps after being captured and not being able to use them for 3h?). Deleted photo might be someone on the picture accidently. The night pics do seem very strange but could also be a call for help when they hear a plane or something.

  • @luzmartin952
    @luzmartin952 Год назад +4

    Places like that are rule by narcos. And the locals know it.

  • @evilswissy
    @evilswissy 10 месяцев назад +6

    just seeing the 2 men in the pictures gave me a feeling they had something to do with it

  • @seancidy6008
    @seancidy6008 2 года назад +8

    The first two emergency call, and the only ones on the day they disappeared, were one each by Kris and Lisanne at four thirty nine and fifty one in the afternoon, and they did not connect, which is surely a powerful indication that they were made while the phones were located outside the cellphone connection zone, which means almost certainly twenty minutes or more beyond the overlook and down the Serpent trail. My personal opinion is Frank Rosas and the other business owner 'witness' worried about how they will be able to feed their families if tourists stopped coming to the trail. It was not known what trails the girls had been on and even after that thought very unlikely the girls had went down the other side of the continental divide along the Serpent trail so the touristy Pianista was thought to where they disappeared, after witnesses came forward. That perception could ruin those depending on tourist trade. The kiosk guy said the girls looked tired like they had completed their hike but one was coughing like she was ill. 22:20 BackpackerCoach says the owner of the restaurant asserted that he saw them hitchhiking on the road; hence both the people with businesses were 100% telling the world that the girls hiked the trail, returned to the trailhead, and went off somewhere else. Olivia the woman who lives there said they started late and were walking up at about 4pm. Is it remotely plausible that intelligent women with experience of the time of sunset in the area would start up a trail so close to when they knew nightfall was? If that was so the sun would be low in the sky by the time they were on the overlook; which would make it difficult to lose track of direction as they went on with it at their back.

    • @екатеринаалексан-ц8я
      @екатеринаалексан-ц8я Год назад

      @@InspektoraDeFrutas. При том что не было снаряжения, не было еды. Лиссан чувствовала себя не важно простуженна

  • @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164
    @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164 2 года назад +6

    Maybe it was helping Kris, I hope, or that's why Feliciano went to look for the room, thinking that I'm going back to look for help. I don't trust the owner of the house, that's why Feliciano asked for the key to make sure that

    • @VK-qe7if
      @VK-qe7if 2 года назад +6

      I don't trust any of them, particularly Felicano Gonzalez, or his step son.

    • @sherrellsoriano1152
      @sherrellsoriano1152 Год назад +1

      ​@@VK-qe7ifI agree with you. I also believe the woman who said after it happened, the boy told her everything" the locals know everything that happens in their towns. Not to mention the woman report from Daily Beast, said the two boys were spotted in A bar. 1 of them bragging how he puts people in the hospital with his left hand, and Kill them with his right. They tried to go far with the girls, the girl didn't want it. And they beat, and killed them. Which is horrible. I hope the girls and their family get justice❕

  • @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164
    @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164 2 года назад +5

    Neither animals nor some stranger did something to him I don't know but the youtuber Lara assumes that Diego the guide or Feliciano his father are involved there is something strange that happened when the parents of kriis walked

  • @InspektoraDeFrutas.
    @InspektoraDeFrutas. 2 года назад +5

    @BC:
    Are you familiar with Juan’s theory that they didn’t even go to that particular trail?
    Apparently they got there late in the afternoon and only went to the first trail for like an hour max, and then came down after 4 pm and went swimming with the boys from Costa Rica.
    Juan is claiming that all the other alleged photos on the second trail were actually photoshopped. He has pretty good evidence there…
    What do you think about that theory?

  • @johndonahue3509
    @johndonahue3509 7 месяцев назад +2

    They came back down and into town..look at the backpack..one wore it up and the OTHER wore the pack down the Hill..... pics show both of them wearing it .. shows they went up and back down, then to Town where they got picked up and went to swimming hole... pics of them there at hole as well .....plus the witness at restaurants said he saw them after they got back down at around 4pm.

  • @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164
    @abdielarnulfomurillosamani164 2 года назад +5

    A stranger pays attention to details, I don't know, but the journalist was incompetent, inept in her questions, another investigator, both national and Dutch, was equally inept.

    • @dianasworld3015
      @dianasworld3015 3 месяца назад

      They probably didn't want to risk their reputations or getting caught up in gang business.

  • @bailey2913
    @bailey2913 11 месяцев назад +2

    There were photo’s of the girls at the continental divide, they were taken in bright daylight, so imo not that late in the afternoon

  • @EskimoClay1
    @EskimoClay1 Год назад +3

    the store just "accidently" deletes footage.... bizarre