Great video. I love the Patagonia fit, it allows for plenty of layers underneath, The North Face and Arcteryx are also good. I find that Rab and Mountain Equipment are too tight under the arm pits, it seems like all of their higher end jackets have an apline fit and are made for climbers that don't wear many layers underneath, its a shame because their gear is good. I'm 5ft9 and slim, i'm not a chunky person
It’s great to see, but the point must be driven in to get one if your current shell’s unusable. Many shell’s life is shortened by infrequent washing, so the new more frequent recommendation would also benefit any old Gore or H2No shells since most aren’t washed/redipped enough.
Whilst it’s great that they’ve managed to reduce carbon footprint in the manufacturing, I can’t see how a jacket that I’m going to have to run through my washing machine and tumble dryer every couple of uses is going to do the planet any favours whatsoever. I wash my gore tex pro a couple of times a year, maybe with the odd bonus wash if it gets filthy. I’m now looking at washing a jacket potentially 20+ times a year. That’s something like an extra 60kg of Co2 per year and hundreds (maybe thousands) of litres of clean water. If we then add in the carbon footprint of ordering multiple (plastic) bottles of tech wash per year, these might actually do more harm than good with respect to carbon (unless you’re only auditing the carbon footprint of the company manufacturing them….). There’s also a glaring practicality issue if it needs washing every couple of uses. Would you just have to accept on a week+ long trip where you can’t wash it that the performance is likely to drop off thus increasing the risk of a dangerous scenario where you wet out in the mountains? The comparison to base layers doesn’t quite work - I can afford to own several base layers, but not so much £400 waterproofs (and that wouldn’t be very sustainable either)… The most sustainable product is usually the one that lasts, and the practicality issues with this make me suspect I’d be replacing it after a season.
Firstly, you won't have to tumble dry it after each use - that's a myth. You can, but you definitely don't have to anymore - particularly if you're using Nikwax Tech Wash/TX Direct. There's certainly no harm, but if it's CO2 that you're concerned about it's an obvious thing to cut out. When it comes to the comment on "the most sustainable product is the one that lasts" I couldn't agree more, but this is the exact point that we made within the video (i.e. if you take proper care of your jacket, washing/proofing it more frequently, it will last longer). I see no reason why you'd need to replace an ePE jacket after a single season, unless you did something exceptional that would warrant its retirement (e.g. rip or tear, but even then you could get it repaired). Finally, I think the factor you've missed out is the importance of removing the PFCs from the jacket, which cannot be understated. If it's the environment that you care about, then removing these should be high up on the list of priorities.
@@ukclimbingofficial fair points, but I still don’t think a waterproof you have to wash every couple of uses stacks up - that is why I’d be replacing it after less than a year, because it’s impractical. Great to see steps in the right direction, but it has to perform at the same level as normal gore tex for it to actually be sustainable 🤷♂️
I don't think your last statement stands true. Electric cars are considered to be more sustainable than petrol/diesel cars, despite having very clear drawbacks in terms of performance - particularly as far as range is concerned. The issue is that petrol/diesel cars - and in the case of waterproof jackets, PFCs - gave us false expectations of how products should perform. These expectations now need to be realigned, at least in the short term, whilst the technology catches up with that level of performance we've grown used to.
These new jackets are absolute quality and unlike older Gore-Tex jackets, they're right at the beginning of their R&D. They just require washing more often, which you should be doing to older Gore-Tex jackets anyway - it makes them last longer!
To counteract the grumpy comments i will say i had already been looking at this jacket, and thr review inspires confidence as i was a bit apprehensive of ePE vs ePTFE membranes - i am wondering though how often you would suggest washing and reproofing a jacket like this?
We've found that it's best to think of ePE like you would a baselayer or t-shirt - if you've had a couple of days out on the hill with it then you'll probably want to wash it. You'll notice it start to wet out a lot quicker. This isn't it becoming non-waterproof, but you will notice the breathability go down quickly. It just requires a bit of behavioural change i.e. getting used to washing these jackets more frequently.
The DWR is less durable, but the membrane itself is no different - or at least not in our experience. Same goes for the backer and face fabrics - they’re basically the same as before too, so no difference there either.
As I've said to others before, we give our honest appraisal within these reviews, and there's plenty of examples of us having done this previously. In the case of the Triolet and Gore ePE I'd like to think we've given an honest appraisal of the pros and cons. To be completely clear, the con here is how much care and maintenance is required, because it is significant in comparison to what you'll be used to. However, we feel that on balance it's a positive step. I think we all agree that the industry needs to become more sustainable, but that comes at a cost of having to look after what you've got more than you used to.
Great video. I love the Patagonia fit, it allows for plenty of layers underneath, The North Face and Arcteryx are also good. I find that Rab and Mountain Equipment are too tight under the arm pits, it seems like all of their higher end jackets have an apline fit and are made for climbers that don't wear many layers underneath, its a shame because their gear is good. I'm 5ft9 and slim, i'm not a chunky person
It’s great to see, but the point must be driven in to get one if your current shell’s unusable. Many shell’s life is shortened by infrequent washing, so the new more frequent recommendation would also benefit any old Gore or H2No shells since most aren’t washed/redipped enough.
Whilst it’s great that they’ve managed to reduce carbon footprint in the manufacturing, I can’t see how a jacket that I’m going to have to run through my washing machine and tumble dryer every couple of uses is going to do the planet any favours whatsoever. I wash my gore tex pro a couple of times a year, maybe with the odd bonus wash if it gets filthy. I’m now looking at washing a jacket potentially 20+ times a year. That’s something like an extra 60kg of Co2 per year and hundreds (maybe thousands) of litres of clean water. If we then add in the carbon footprint of ordering multiple (plastic) bottles of tech wash per year, these might actually do more harm than good with respect to carbon (unless you’re only auditing the carbon footprint of the company manufacturing them….).
There’s also a glaring practicality issue if it needs washing every couple of uses. Would you just have to accept on a week+ long trip where you can’t wash it that the performance is likely to drop off thus increasing the risk of a dangerous scenario where you wet out in the mountains? The comparison to base layers doesn’t quite work - I can afford to own several base layers, but not so much £400 waterproofs (and that wouldn’t be very sustainable either)…
The most sustainable product is usually the one that lasts, and the practicality issues with this make me suspect I’d be replacing it after a season.
Firstly, you won't have to tumble dry it after each use - that's a myth. You can, but you definitely don't have to anymore - particularly if you're using Nikwax Tech Wash/TX Direct. There's certainly no harm, but if it's CO2 that you're concerned about it's an obvious thing to cut out.
When it comes to the comment on "the most sustainable product is the one that lasts" I couldn't agree more, but this is the exact point that we made within the video (i.e. if you take proper care of your jacket, washing/proofing it more frequently, it will last longer). I see no reason why you'd need to replace an ePE jacket after a single season, unless you did something exceptional that would warrant its retirement (e.g. rip or tear, but even then you could get it repaired).
Finally, I think the factor you've missed out is the importance of removing the PFCs from the jacket, which cannot be understated. If it's the environment that you care about, then removing these should be high up on the list of priorities.
@@ukclimbingofficial fair points, but I still don’t think a waterproof you have to wash every couple of uses stacks up - that is why I’d be replacing it after less than a year, because it’s impractical. Great to see steps in the right direction, but it has to perform at the same level as normal gore tex for it to actually be sustainable 🤷♂️
I don't think your last statement stands true. Electric cars are considered to be more sustainable than petrol/diesel cars, despite having very clear drawbacks in terms of performance - particularly as far as range is concerned. The issue is that petrol/diesel cars - and in the case of waterproof jackets, PFCs - gave us false expectations of how products should perform. These expectations now need to be realigned, at least in the short term, whilst the technology catches up with that level of performance we've grown used to.
Great perspectives from both sides. Most civilized conversation I’ve seen online in years. Cheers lads!
Buy a proper goretex jacket whilst you still can folks!
These new jackets are absolute quality and unlike older Gore-Tex jackets, they're right at the beginning of their R&D. They just require washing more often, which you should be doing to older Gore-Tex jackets anyway - it makes them last longer!
To counteract the grumpy comments i will say i had already been looking at this jacket, and thr review inspires confidence as i was a bit apprehensive of ePE vs ePTFE membranes - i am wondering though how often you would suggest washing and reproofing a jacket like this?
We've found that it's best to think of ePE like you would a baselayer or t-shirt - if you've had a couple of days out on the hill with it then you'll probably want to wash it. You'll notice it start to wet out a lot quicker. This isn't it becoming non-waterproof, but you will notice the breathability go down quickly. It just requires a bit of behavioural change i.e. getting used to washing these jackets more frequently.
@@ukclimbingofficial ah I see, thank you!
does it need to be washed with techwash? or is the ePE more forgiving for regular detergents@@ukclimbingofficial
Ill get the pfc version. I don't want to keep reapplying dwr
The Triolet has been around for several years. Is this EPE stuff a new update to the jacket or has it always had this?
The ePE membrane was new for Autumn/Winter '23
The question is: how is durable this jacket in the time, I think this new technology it's very less durable
The DWR is less durable, but the membrane itself is no different - or at least not in our experience. Same goes for the backer and face fabrics - they’re basically the same as before too, so no difference there either.
You lost me with the "sustainable" gimmick. Pass.
It’s hardly a gimmick. They no longer use PFCs to manufacture them.
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As I've said to others before, we give our honest appraisal within these reviews, and there's plenty of examples of us having done this previously. In the case of the Triolet and Gore ePE I'd like to think we've given an honest appraisal of the pros and cons. To be completely clear, the con here is how much care and maintenance is required, because it is significant in comparison to what you'll be used to. However, we feel that on balance it's a positive step. I think we all agree that the industry needs to become more sustainable, but that comes at a cost of having to look after what you've got more than you used to.
Bit harsh
@@ObjectiveMedia consume