The Outdoor Industry's Dirty Secret - How to Stay Dry Backpacking
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- Опубликовано: 17 май 2024
- Want to know how to stay dry while backpacking? There is more to it than a high quality rain jacket and pants. Because even the most expensive rain gear can fail and experience what is known as Wet Out. Wet out is the complete saturation of the outer layer of your rain gear that prevents your jacket from preforming the way that it should. Wet Out can occur in rain jackets, rain pants, tents, rain covers, tarps and more. But it can also be prevented by following this one huge tip for backpacking in the rain. Check out how you can stay dry and prevent wet out the next time you are backpacking.
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Highlights From This Video:
00:00 Can You Keep a Secret?
0:13 Outdoor Industry's Dirty Secret
0:27 What is Wet Out
0:43 Why Wet Out Happens
1:21 Durable Water Repellent Finish (DWR)
2:26 How to Stop Wet Out
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@MyLifeOutdoors , not all rain jackets have a DWR. Columbia’s Outdry Extreme is a recent advancement that is waterproof, breathable, and durable, with no DWR. Note, the Outdry Extreme “Diamond” line is super durable. The durability of the Outdry Extreme “Gold” line is questionable. I have have purchased both and have used them over the last two years.
@@DougOtte Older styles of waterproofing also have no DWR. Waxed cotton will keep you 100% dry from the rain. If you're wet its your own perspiration - thats the trade-off of real durable waterproofing.
I just use an old camo fishing jacket, it can rain hell bent for leather and I'll still be dry.
It's basically rubber underneath, ain't nothing getting through that.
I just need to be mindful not to exert too much for obvious reasons.
And the best bit, it's dirt cheap, and needs no proofing.
I've had plenty gore tex gear fail, my cheap piece of tat just keeps on going.
@@joestevenson5568 what he’s talking about in the video is getting wet from your own perspiration not the waterproof membrane failing.
@@DougOtte I’m learning more about Outdry and Skakedry. I want to try it. Maybe make a video.
After hiking more than 14000 miles over the last few years my resume is this: 1) regardless of your gear you will not stay dry on long hikes. Wet-outs are inevitable and much more so if you transpire heavily as I do. D"WRs show only short term gain lost quickly on long treks 2) an umbrella looks goofy but if the terrain and conditions allow it it is the most breathable solution and extremely cost effectiv. My hiking umbrella weighs half of my Arc'teryx and cost 1/5th 3) generally embrace being wet and rather focus on staying warm while being wet by chosing the right clothing.
Wow! That's cool you have come to this concept too. I discovered the joys of an umbrella while hunting. More important to stay warm and not move too much.
I use an umbrella as well if conditions permit (not too windy). But it keeps only the upper half of me dry. As you say though it's more important not to get chilled than to stay dry. My gear (older Goretex) doesn't suffer from wet-out so much as that it can't keep up with the moisture I'm producing from exerting myself. This in turn is temperature dependent. On a warm rainy day my equipment is less effective than on a cold rainy day, because I perspire more on the warm day. However I don't get chilled as easily. So it works out. You mentioned a hiking umbrella. Are there umbrellas specifically designed for hiking or backpacking? If so, what do you use and recommend?
Not to mention some DWRs are really bad for the environment.
@@swerne01
I'm all for the umbrella. Many ways to use one.
I'd like to add that I carry a set of Frogg Toggs, but only as last backup to prevent hypothermia.
My main go-to raingear is a Z-packs poncho for body & backpack. Adjustable ventilation and can be used as tarp & tent footprint.
WOW! 14,000 miles in a few years? Did you ever stop to sleep? That's a lot of miles!
I’m ex army. It didn’t matter about staying dry (unless it was extremely cold weather) because the important thing was whether or not you had dry clothes to change into once you stopped. If you’re out in the elements for a long time, you are going to get wet! Embrace it, but make sure you have the ability to warm yourself up when you stop, and that you have something dry to change into.
My approach too. I just go with cotton, linen, wool, etc, and let it get heavy and wet, and just look forward to getting changed maybe even take a change with you in your pack, not just back at base. Better than walking in a blue bin bag and spraying fluropolymers everywhere.
They used to have a rain cape/poncho in most armies that was pretty much totally water proof, the idea being with it open on the bottom, ventalation wasnt a big issue, so what if you got a little sweaty. I guess most stopped because it gets in the way of the gun, but saying that, maybe they did wet out too. But i think you could put some together to make a tent, so I am pretty sure their water proffness was high, breadabiility low to zero
Imagine going to the internet to tell everyone you’re ex military and that waterproof clothing doesn’t exist.
@@JDGage Imagine having first hand experience of living under a sheet in the woods for weeks and months on end, and telling everyone not to get too hung up on really expensive equipment, but to focus instead on making sure you always have dry clothes at hand. At some point you will get wet wearing waterproofs but it's not the end of the world when you have dry clothes in your pack. Don't be a dick Jacob, it doesn't suit you!
@@raimesey I remember doing Basic for the Rock Apes and a storm hit us during a 3 day exercise. I was soaked to the skin and shaking with cold as I manned a GPMP and a Flight Sergeant comes over,
“You ok?”
I gritted my teeth, all Rambo,
“Perfectly fine, flight”.
“Fair enough, but any idiot can get wet and cold.” He quipped as he walked off.
Here's what works for me- I always carry a dry pair of clothing, sealed up in a ziploc bag. When it rains for days, everything gets wet. You pack up a wet tent, put on your wet set of clothes and hike another day. But when you get settled in for the evening, you have that dry set you can wear, and get a break from it. Always keep the dry set dry.
I had an instructor many years ago who taught mountain leadership. He was also a member of the local mountain rescue team. He never bought the most expensive waterproof’s, because they were a waste of money - over 25 years experience taught him that. He stuck to mid-range, because regardless of the care (Nikwax included) you took, the wear and tear on the garments after 12 months meant they needed replacing. For him, it was footwear, rucksack and it’s contents, in that order
What is "mountain leadership" and how is it different from regular leadership?
A 120 yr old book called, “The Forest,” covers this topic in great detail. The author used two wool sweaters during expeditions and would change into the dry sweater once camp was set up. Waxed canvas was too heavy and sweaty.
Who’s the author sounds like an interesting read
I met hikers that do this in Sweden and never take hard shells .
In certain climates I bet this is great.. the UK not being one of them
@@JoeZUGOOLA wool will mantain body heat even when wet.
Is making fire not allowed in the UK?
@@papayaman78 it's the uk so probably not, they don't enjoy very much in the way of freedom.
The only gear that WILL keep you dry no matter what(I live in Oregon and hunt no matter what the weather.), are the rubber jackets and overalls used for crabbing and fishing in Alaska and such. My dad gave me some 40 year old gear and it still keeps me dry in hours and hours worth of rain. My "game hide" overalls were also very good but are goretex so they soak through eventually. My dad swears by his wool sweatshirt because even if it soaks through, he is warm.
And what is the cost comparison between the rubber suits and Gore-Tex? Pretty steep I’d guess. THAT is the biggest secret. Thanks for watching!
I also hunt in every condition, and I have been disappointed by the big name brands. I am now investing in wool clothing (American made and milsurp), and when it rains hard, I throw on my old rubber fishing jacket.
@@MyLifeOutdoors Rubber jackets are cheaper than Gore-tex here. But you have to buy them at stores for construction workers and fishermen. It's funny to see clothing stores with datasheets for their clothes.
Rubber is fine and dandy if you are stationary. If you are moving, and sweating, rubber is as effective at keeping the moisture in as it is keeping the water out.
@ You're right about that, but that's when you just depend on your wool layers and/or have ventilation pockets.
The problem is people want something that breathes but also want something that keeps water out. You really can't have both. This is why it's better to have a loose fitting but waterproof poncho as apposed to a jacket or pants. Airflow comes from beneath and you can just flap it around every now and then to remove wet air.
Your knowledge is so outdated it’s ridiculous
An umbrella in outdoor quality works wonders ☔
My kuiu does both
Gustbuster Umbrella and a few ponchos are two things i always have in my pack. Never go into the wilderness without it, and it takes up little space, and have low weight. The umbrella can also be used to shield from the sun if needed, or as a water gatherer if you run out of drinking water. And the poncho have many uses in survival situations.
When I was in the army, wet-out was a daily occurrence and we just, stayed wet... all day long, for weeks sometimes ! All I could really do about it, is accept the fact that I am a disposable living entity. ( and that helped tremendously get over it) :/
Also don't join the army.
Imagine going to the internet to tell everyone you’re ex military and that waterproof gear doesn’t exist.
😂 I'm laughing at your resolution.
You poor thing. That sounds miserable.
Or as the Russian conscripts are described - "single use assets"
Your text just proofs that you NEVER experienced being wet during a long haul. What a joke.
I don’t remember where I’ve heard this story but this hiker and his team were making an attempt at a long hike with a Sherpa. There was a storm and everyone was completely wet. The Sherpa was hiking with an umbrella, he was the only one that stayed dry. It doesn’t matter how expensive the jacket, if it’s directly against your skin and “breathable” you’ll eventually be wet.
Agree. I length-traversed the alps with an umbrella. It made me look like a complete tourist. But a dry tourist :-)
pretty sure this was from Leo Houlding when he was doing his Roraima expedition, sponsored by Berghaus and they had all the latest and greatest jackets and such but 10 minutes into the rainforest and they were all soaked where as their guide was trudging along in flipflops and a brolly dry as a bone
Goretex and other breathable fabrics are designed to work with a wicking underlay (polar fleece, merino etc) which carries your body moisture and allows it to evaporate under body heat. If next to your skin they will *never* work as intended. The body moisture from your sweat lies on your skin and has no chance to evaporate into moisture which will be able to pass through the breathable laminate. Breathable fabrics work under a vapour pressure principle; they are designed for use in colder climates and will not perform well in hot, humid climes where, after all, getting hypothermic is rarely the main issue.
Umbrella’s rock! Except in the wind.
I have had the exact same experience. My boss and I were in the rain where he had an umbrella and I had a raincoat with rain paints. After a while I noticed I was the only one getting wet so I asked him to hand me over the umbrella seeing that he wasn't doing much but just watching me, to which he replied, but how will you work while holding the umbrella. He was right. From that moment I realized I didn't want Gortex or DWR coatings....I just wanted to be a boss...with an umbrella!
I've given up on fancy raingear (tent excluded) and just use a super cheap poncho on my bike. Weighs nothing, packs small, costs less than $10. Works amazing & even doubles as a picknick blanket. I also wear things that dry quickly and keep me warm either way like others in the comments have mentioned.
you should consider froggtoggs. They are pretty cheap (20-30$) and more rain proof than a lot of the fancy gear. They are probably a bit nicer to take on and off than your plastic poncho and breathe a bit better too.
@@christopherrowley7506 thanks for the suggestion!
Yeah, that's the cheap and effective solution, something that just doesn't let water in period, like a cheap plastic poncho. Doesn't breath either, but it sure is waterproof.
Yeah, you don’t have to spend big money for rain gear. Some of these channels have thousands in gear. Thousand dollar sleeping bags etc. 😆
I use my rain jacket for warmth
In my experience, you will get wet while hiking in the rain regardless of what rain gear you're using. It's just a matter of time before condensation and/sweat will build up inside your rain gear. The best way to stay dry is to wait it out under some form of shelter. If you have to hike in the rain, you will get wet.
And that’s the true dirty secret.
Yes, I've had cheap gear and expensive gear and I've got wet in all of it. The breakthrough was getting a poncho that allows air to circulate underneath. You look ridiculous but you stay dryer than with all the fancy gore-tex technical jackets.
Honestly I thought that's where this video was gonna go.
Yea lets wait 3 days XD
and that's why i watch your channel the honesty of experience.
My rain gear of choice for almost 60 years; Standard issue US military poncho/shelter half. The models of the WWII/Korea/Vietnam era were rubberized, strong and versatile. Wet out has never been a major issue. It also worked well to block wind and cold air infiltration during winter blizzards. A couple of these are must-haves in any survival kit.
As ex-military I conquer 😊
Not ex-military, but can confirm those rubberised army ponchos are the best in torrential rain.. I once spent two hours re-fitting a gate in a relentless summer downpour.. Poncho kept me dry, and no condensation build up.. :)
@@preacherjohn but they are also heavy and clumsy af. Better get a good outdoor research foray 2 or something alike
with a poncho you still get wet but from the inside
Rubberized doesn't breath at all, but does not suffer from wet-out. In my option the best choice for heavy rain.
In addition to water not beading due to worn-out DWR, there’s another thing that causes water to get thru: pressure. The fabrics and membranes have a limited water pillar and something like the shoulder straps of your rucksack can easily cause pressure points that result in wet spots underneath.
I think the industry has greatly exaggerated the waterproofness and breathability of these garments for four decades now.
Totally waterproof rain jackets work as promised, last longer, and still offer a reasonable amount of ventilation when the activity level is low to medium. For carrying a rucksack in the rain, it’s hard to beat a poncho and they are really well ventilated.
Still, getting at least moderately wet at some point is difficult to avoid, depending on what you’re doing in the rain. It’s not a problem if you are on the move and your metabolism produces heat. Pack dry spare clothes for breaks. Staying dry is not the most important goal. Staying reasonably warm is.
One thing I don't really get is how you would dry the clothes later on? If the weather doesn't clear up that is. Like you would then just end up with two wet pair of clothes.
@@ano_nym Perhaps you could set up a tent that is large enough to keep your cloths from getting wetter when it's raining? (If you pack a heater for said tent perhaps that could help too?)
@@minnion2871 Perhaps, but the heaters seems quite large and would need a lot of gas though. So not really good for on foot camping.
@@ano_nym Well perhaps a portable wood stove or something similar that could be used to heat the tent with a wood fire? They make those right?
@@minnion2871 that also sounds very heavy and spacious to be honest. I have also mostly camped in the mountains, above the tree line, so there's not really much to burn there.
Great video. Wet out is a problem for most modern breathable rain gear. But, I don't want to have to go through a multi-step pampering process to re-waterproof my close-fitting, expensive "waterproof" and "breathable" outerwear, a fix which will degrade again in short order (often in minutes in a hard rain) or if used much. I live and work in the Pacific Northwest, on the Oregon coast, and I gave up on the idea of trying to get breathable and waterproof at the same time long ago. "Waterproof" isn't, and "breathable" will freeze you if it's blowing hard, besides. Loose-fitting impermeable fabrics (like rubberized HH gear - a size large - or an impermeable waterproof poncho) is the most effective solution in real weather IMO. Stay away from close-fitting "waterproof" garments. Use impermeable fabrics and let them flap and breathe while they keep the wind and water and condensation out.
So If i was backpacking would you recommend a rubber poncho?
Pro tip: Wool retains body heat even when wet. Use an outer that sheds water like canvas treated with Greenland wax. Carry spare, dry wool clothes. Natural fibers always!
Trying to stay dry, not warm.
@@UguysRnuts Getting wet is nothing to worry about...
@@UguysRnuts the main issue with getting wet is that you typically lose warmth quickly, if you can stay warm while being wet all you then need to deal with is the discomfort of wet clothes
Pro tip: Wool has a higher threshold before saturation negates it's insulation but it will also eventually sap your heat if wet enough.
It's a great material but it cannot be soaking wet and keep you warm.
If you have to weather the rain out without shelter a hooded PU-Poncho with welded seams can help. Also: Keep a dry, warm item packed in case you have got wet. Pay most attention to your shoes - they can take a longer time to dry and bc. wet feet can be very taxing when temperatures are mid to low and you might experience opening blisters or rubbed off skin much more frequently when your shoes wet out.
I've used many different rain jackets, and nowadays I'm settled on my army poncho, it's versatile, more breathable than any rain jacket due to open sides, covers your pack, durable and multifunction (for example setting up a quick shelter for a short period to have a cup of tea and break from the wet).
Mate of mine has some sort of poncho (no idea if its army or not) but I was sold, it works a treat in a variety of situations. Over the years I have shifted to going very light with stuff that dries quickly... ofc this is only applicable to warmer climates.
ponchos work really great in rain. got some huge 40$ mammut ponchos for over my backpack with shield on hoody. you can connect several ponchos to a huge tarp to sleep below. Butter than every fancy rain gear
Same here!
I live in germany and our army poncho can be used as tarp too.
And it keeps your torso bone dry
Great tip, Steven. I've never experienced wet out quite like I did on the La Cloche 88km loop in Northern Ontario, just north of Lake Huron. My brother and I were unlucky enough to get 6 of 7 days with at least 60mm or around 2.5 inches of rain. Towards the end of the trip literally everything I had was soaked besides the things I kept in my tent. I'm happy that that I managed to keep my sleeping bag and sleepwear dry to have a comfortable sleep. Even though we didn't have rain on a few nights the gear we hung up stayed wet because the air was so damp. The most memorable trips are the ones with chaos. Maybe it would have been different if I had wet sleeping gear when the temp was getting below freezing in November. I still have funny memories of most of the trail being underwater and seeing literally all of our gear strung out hoping to dry. We even tried drying our socks by roasting them on the fire. I'm a pretty new sub to your channel and I just want to tell you that I appreciate your content.
I’m glad you are here. Thanks for the sub. I certainly agree my favorite stories to tell are those where things went WRONG! including rain!
Lost count of the number of socks that I've burnt in front of the old campfire trying to get every thing dry ( and that is over 67 years in the out doors, and still out there ). Cheers from NZ
Thank you very much for this video.
As a cyclist i bought a Vaude rain jacket, thought that would keep me dry during the wet days on a cycling holiday.
It turned out to be a disaster, at first the dwr layer was working, but soon the fabric around my wrists was getting soaking wet.
From that point the water/moisture was traveling upwards to my elbow....
After 5 hours of cycling in the rain i was completely wet on my upper torso.
My rainpants (€20) kept my legs dry, at least a lot dryer then my arms and chest.
Your video gives a good explanation, and i am thinking of getting a poncho.
Lightweight hiking umbrella... really think it is a very underrated piece of gear! Just keeping your head and shoulders free from rain really helps your jacket membrane vent that condensation away from your body.
You use one? With a rain jacket? I was thinking about umbrellas this week. I just spent 4 days in the rainforest of Olympic NP. Rained constantly with temps in the 40s. Very cold. I thought about umbrellas and that they might be good for warm weather rain maybe on the southern AT. But I couldn’t imagine in what I just experienced. But maybe with a rain jacket too. All and all I was pretty happy with how my gear preformed after the new DWR treatment. I wasn’t bone dry, but managed to stay comfortably dry for multiple days. Anyway if you have used an umbrella I’m curious your thoughts. Thanks for watching!
Gossamer Gear makes a UL umbrella and a few other good brands do too! As someone who lives in Olympic, I can recommend the umbrella route! It doesn't work the best in high winds obviously, but it's great for the rain we get in WA.
@@MyLifeOutdoors I live in GA and we have lots of rain and high humidity in the southern Appalachians. I use an umbrella with a Frog Toggs Extreme Light jacket and Dyneema rain skirt for rain in the 30’s and above. The umbrella keeps the rain off my head and upper torso which allows me to ventilate my upper body much more than I could without the umbrella plus keeping the cold rain off my upper body keeps me warmer. The skirt breathes very well and keeps my thighs dry and warm. My legs generate plenty of heat even when wet below the knee. My goal is to stay safely warm, not totally dry as it’s impossible when backpacking up and down mountains in steady/pouring all day/multi-day rain. The umbrella adds tremendous comfort during those prolonged rains. I’m also a glasses wearer and just the benefit of having dry glasses and being able to see is worth carrying the umbrella. Additional benefits are the ability to get into your pack when it’s pouring and to serve as a wind block in a tarp setup.
I'm a believer. The umbrella that looks like a droopy mushroom can cover the head and shoulders well enough. A taut poncho between 2 lines of para cord can keep a heavy downpour off you.
Seconding the umbrella! I once night-hiked 8 extra miles in a rainstorm with my umbrella and rain jacket combo. Definitely would have given up and camped sooner if I had only been using the jacket. But I wanted to catch up with a friend on the PCT and I made it! Keeping the torso warm and dry is key.
I have used it all, I test products for companies under research and development departments. One of the ones that I have found that works is Sno-seal, multiple applications of Nik wax ( wash and spray both together ) and bees wax. Impregnating the material if at all possible. Tested dyneema for a long time as well. Everything has a hydrostatic rating for a reason. I never buy a jacket for rain unless it has pit zips, never. Everything in this world has to be vented. From our emotions, all the way down to this planet.
I need pit zips for my emotions! Great insight. Thanks for the comment.
Have you tried Gore-Tex Shakedry? Mine doesn’t have pit zips but it doesn’t wet out either and it “breathes” very well.
@@70h4nn35 I have plenty of gortex and even hybrids. Imo, it is over priced.
@@apocsurvival916 I mean specifically Shakedry since it doesn’t use DWR?
Do you mind elaborating on this: "One of the ones that I have found that works is Sno-seal, multiple applications of Nik wax ( wash and spray both together ) and bees wax. Impregnating the material if at all possible." ? Not clear what you are doing!
Last time I experienced wet out was a couple weeks ago, I’m Canadian armed forces and our goretex jackets are famously water sponges, mine had served me well so far but couple weeks ago while in the field on a quite heavy rain day I found myself soaking wet in maybe -2 2• Celsius weather. It wasn’t really fun because we still had a couple days left in the field. Thank you for this info imma share it with my buddies and see if it’s possible to apply on our jackets.
I still have my military rain poncho. Its coated with polyurethane. It is cheap (~30€), will remain waterproof for decades (unless physically damaged) and in an emergency it even doubles as a one man shelter. The only maintenance you ever need to do is brush it off every now end then to get rid of dirt.
Nice! Are they mil-issue only or are they available in surplus?
Amen. They’re almost as cheap as a disposable poncho, but work better than gear that costs four times as much.
@@i-love-comountains3850 Sorry for answering so late. I have seen them available in surplus.
I've done two thru hikes across America. I've found an umbrella is the best thing to use to stay dry. Even in a driving rain you can usually keep your top half pretty dry. For my legs I use a non breathable pair of Antigravity Gear pants.
I used oilskins for 40 years with only an annual application of oil, kept me dry out doing farm work
Absolutely, me too. I’m in Australia, and during the hottest day in Summer, I hang all my oilskins on coat hangers on the line. Get them stinking-hot, then apply waterproofing till the fabric can take no more. Then, next morning, when fabric is at it’s coolest, I wipe off excess waterproofing, and store the garments till needed.
Sam Day that is the way to do it :)
I'd like to make a comment on the terminology. Typically wet-out is when just the outside layer is completely saturated with rain. Moisture build up on the inside of rain gear is from sweat. Water-proof/vapour-pass materials work on the humidity gradient. You can get wet inside a waterproof jacket from wet-out (the vapour cannot pass though the outer layer as you described); insufficient gradient (that is if the outside is as humid or more humid than the interior, i.e. if it's raining heavily and the outside air humidity is high), or if you are producing more sweat then the material can pass (breathability).
Typically this last point is the biggest problem when you have to do work (hiking uphill) and you want rain protection, you will sweat faster than the layers can let it pass through. Pit-zips etc can only do so much to offset this. The end result is that you end up wet inside anyway, even if you don't have wet out, or even if it's not raining (intermittently). Assuming the outer has not wet-out, and some moisture can escape, then you get perhaps only marginally less wet than nonbreathable cheap alternative (PVC or equivalent).
The solution is if you expect to use your hard shell jacket for more than strolling around town is: not spending heaps, accept you will get wet inside (be comfortable with being uncomfortable), wear wool/poly to still keep warm when wet, and have a dry set to switch into at camp.
so many people make that mistake saying its no longer waterproof. its not true. "wetted out" jackets are still waterproof just as you indicate. it amazes me that people go on youtube channel and tell you with the upmost confidence that they're no longer waterproof and explain you why, without any idea of what they're talking about. Next they'll tell you its not their fault its the marketing that mislead them and its still wet in the end. Yeah, that's also correct, but damn lol.
You have to be careful about the wash-in DWR treatments. With many of the modern multi-layer rain jackets that have breathable membranes, the manufacturers recommend a spray on treatment as the DWR wash-in can essentially "ruin" the inner breathable layers.
Yep, know that one☹
one thing i learned from hiking in the raining season in nepal is that poncho's are far superior to rainjackets :p
I’ve heard that before. I also use my jacket as extra insulation when it gets cold. Ponchos might not work for that. But if you stay dryer it’s probably worth looking into.
Came here looking for this comment... expected it to be at the top. Absolutely no comparison in performance and comfort/user-friendliness. Ponchos FTW!
@@ArbitraryLifestyle I've been leaning towards a blackout Sun umbrella & rain kilt..?
Ponchos are great for warmer times without a lot of wind if they're the long ones that will go over your pack and still cover enough.
Don’t you ever go out in the winds?
If I tired using a poncho in the mountains I’d be blown off and killed.
Nothing beats a dry cabin and a fire place! In emergencies: poncho it protects the back pack as well, light cases: fold away Umbrella with reinforced fibreglass ribs!
I’m going to try the cabin suggestion. 😉 lots of people suggesting ponchos. I’ve never backpacked with one but I think I’ll try it.
As others have pointed out, you didn't point out the real dirty secret, which is that the DWR will wear off in steady rain. This makes GoreTex and the like essentially worthless in real rainy situations no matter what you did before the hike. After years of messing with this I went with a silnylon poncho for extended rain.
I like my poncho system. It's a rubberised camo thing, so not as light as a jacket, but it never lets water through and goes to the knees. It's airy enough to minimise condensation underneath.
Coupled with an alpaca poncho in the winter, I'm more than warm enough with little underneath.
No question lightweight ponchos are the best solution. Also, it is OK to get your hands and feet wet. The best way is to go barefoot or minimalist sandals. Humanity does not need to reinvent the wheel here, people have used ponchos and sandals for thousands of years for a reason.
@@jokers7890 Totally agree. When I hike I often go barefoot. When wearing boots I swear by waterproof socks. I've done multi day hikes with boots that are soaked through, but because my socks were waterproof I was fine. They're cold at first in the morning when putting them on, but quickly warm up.
This channel should go places. Super informative. No fluff. Great production quality. Keep it up!
Thank you. Tell your friends 😉
Partially I think it's a matter of expectations. One can get wet and it's a disaster during a long trip. One can also get wet and it's just... part of the journey. Knowing what's what and learn to handle the situation and how to maintain one's gear takes time and experience.
Thank you for a great video.
I had a vinyl coat when I was a kid with rubber boots my shoes went into and never got wet even in rain storms.
They used to make them and they worked!
I have learned so much from Steven since starting to watch the channel. So much I'm going to be backpacking in the next month!
Much love Steven ❣️
One of the things you will notice in the best “waterproof/breathable” jackets, is a mesh-like textile as the inside layer. This helps to prevent “wet-out” on the inside of the jacket, or the fabric clinging to your perspiring skin. You tend to find this meshed layer in “3-layer” fabrics, but you will occasionally find this in some “2-layer” fabrics like Goretex Paclite Plus (from what I can tell, that is the “Plus” part). This inner mesh seems to me an adaptation of older waterproof jackets that had mesh linings, and these worked pretty at keeping you dry on the inside, even if they were bulky.
Perhaps one of the most overlooked considerations for keeping you dry is jacket fit. No jacket that is skin tight will keep you dry under even minimal exertion. Rainwear should fit loosely to very loosely,, and while some people complain about the “stiffness” of some of the 3-layer jackets, this helps keep the jacket off your skin allowing it to breathe.
But his suggestions are excellent ones. Keep that jacket clean. Even on a jacket where the DWR finish is in good shape, dirt will cause it to soak up water and wet out. This goes for shoes and boots too, and not just “waterproof” ones, which I don’t recommend anyway, but that’s another story.
Mesh lining is actually 2.5 layer clothing - face/membrane/mesh (mesh being the '.5' part).
My first two membrane jackets were 2.5 layer ones and the PTFE eventually got damaged or worn out so only use 3 layer ones now. I have two membrane jackets - one winter and one for 'rest of the year'. I always carry a small lightweight umbrella too (belt and braces approach but works best for me ime although other's mmv).
My only difference to guy in this video is I never use tech wash as it's only expensive soap flakes so I use the cheap stuff.
@@justvin7214 actually I thought that mash layer was the third layer, the first being the outer layer, the second being the semi-permeable membrane, and the third and inner most layer, a bonded mesh. That bonded mesh is what’s missing on three layer jackets. I’m not sure what the 1/2 layer is referring to except maybe the chemical water repellent, or maybe a special finish (textured, not mesh) on the inside of the semi-permeable layer, but not a separate bonded layer.
@@pwoc94110 All membrane jackets have a chemical DWR, the .5 is definitely a mesh layer. The 3rd layer is a solid inner protecting the Goretex membrane. There are some very interesting pdf's out there on the technicalities 👍
I also forgot to mention that the Goretex Paclite you mentioned is a very lightweight PTFE Goretex and isn't very robust at all, so unless you're just using it for dog walking I'd stay away from it.
Thanks for the tip! Getting wet particularly on a backpacking trip is annoying to say the least. But what i have also started to use is a good ol’ fashioned poncho. Still allows breathing underneath and you cover yourself and your backpack :) you can get very light weight ponchos that cost a fraction of a new Gortex jacket.
great point...a $3 poncho or even a trash bag in emergencies works to keep the rain off. it's not sustainable on a multi-day trip, but that aside they are 100% effective at stopping rain
totally agree after buying a £600 special forces jacket .. i bought a £20 military poncho .. problem solved
do they cover your arms though?
I totally relate.Wetted out numerous times in the UK weather,where it rains 33%of the time.
I've found ponchos to be the most successful thing for not wetting out.I put it down to the flapping about movement helping to shed the water.
I just banged on for too long saying the same thing from the same location.
Another great way to stay dry is to check the weather forecast before going out. Here in the Pacific Northwest the forecast for mid July through early September is: sunny and dry with occasional late afternoon showers which don't last long.
Life hack! Nice! You're going to love this..... My first wet out experience, I was wearing blue jeans and a cotton t-shirt. And it rained off and on the whole trip. Lol! I was a non-stop prune.
Facepalm 🤦♂️
Hahahahahahhaha
Awesome video! It is always good news to know that a solution exist to our problem. In my case I simply accept that I am going to get wet from the inside rather than the outside from the cold rain of November falling on me constantly. My solution has been to bring dry clothes that I change to when I arrive back to the car after my hike in the pouring rain. I found that getting wet is not such a bad thing providing that I generate enough heat to stay warm. This is why for me it is so important to have a total change of clothes including socks and booths when I have finished my hike in the rain. What you are saying make a lot of sense. I will give it a try. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for watching! Are you mostly day hiking? I enjoy a good hike in the rain. But in colder temps backpacking I always worry about hypothermia. So I’m always trying to protect my gear from getting too wet.
@@MyLifeOutdoors in the summer I mainly swim or trail run so it is seldom long enough to be a problem when it rains as I generate enough heat during those activities that seldom exceed two hours. I spend much longer time outdoor during the winter cross-country skiing. During this activity I am very careful trying to stay dry by managing my body temperature taking off and putting back clothes back on. At -10C rain is not the issue but condensation is.
I’m glad I found this video, as new hiker I haven’t experienced it in major rain yet. So I’m definitely glad I found this video to prepare myself. Thanx for the knowledge!🤙🏽
The driest, most waterproof rain gear is the one you wear under a 20¢ black garbage bag with an incision big enough to stick your head through.
I live in Oregon and found several things. Cheaper gear tends to wet out faster than expensive gear if we are talking straight off the shelf. Second the more water proof the less breatheable. I have rain gear that will never let rain in. Down side is if rain cannot get in then sweat cannot get out. So at end of day Im wet in sweat not rain.
I'm in Oregon and that's my experience as well. But the sweat is never as bad as being soaked completely like in a down pour.
What kind of jacket never lets rain in? Rubber?
@@blahbleh5671 exactly PVC welded jacket. It doesnt breathe so you will sweat in it
It’s an excellent solution. I recently hand-washed my old rain shell and my favorite umbrella with nikwax then used the spray-on DWR. It’s like having new equipment!
I’m very pleased with how my jacket performed in the PNW last week. 4 days of rain and reasonably dry! Thanks for watching.
“At least, every once in a while” is a fantastic measure of the frequency to reapply the treatment, got a great laugh at that one! 😊
For me I always have 2 thing with me backpacking: my light and breathable rain jacket for when its just light rain and windy! And if its pouring rain I have a fully waterproof plastic poncho so I don't wet out! Doesn't that much space in my bag having that second poncho!👌
Thank you for doing what you do! I am amazed at some of the gear out there today $$ some of the technology is impressive but the Must have aspect just isn’t true. I’m no pro but I have been doing this all my life and we got along just famously with what we had and have. Over the years if you have what is promoted it takes away from thinking outside of the box and we need that more than ever now. Blessings and keep up the good work. 👌
The real problem is not getting wet; it is getting cold.
Im ok getting wet when I'm moving because I do sweat a lot.
The important thing is to take off wet and get into dry as soon as you stop moving. Polyester fleece is great for this. Usually i hate synthetic fibres on my skin, but a cosy fleece when youre soaked through, is heaven!
Thanks for the breakdown. Super handy. I've got one of my outdoor jackets that's just started absorbing water. I've been searching for how to fix this so grateful to find your find. Cheers!
I'm not a fan of DWR-treated gear. The best experience I had with SilNylon ponchos - while the material isn't breathable at all, you can vent a poncho fairly well. SilNylon is hydrophobic - which is in my opinion the key for proper raingear. Multilayer materials are usually great for sport, but everything that can let water out, can let water in.
SilNylon? Like Sea 2 Summit SilNylon?
Silnylon is hydrophilic, not hydrophobic, so it will absorb a bit of water and become stretchier in wet conditions. I cannot comment on whether or not it performs better than other raingear.
I have two issues with "breathable" rain gear.
First, as you mention, all of these depend on DWR treatment. Unfortunately, many of those treatments require the application of PFC (also called PFAS). All PFC are persistent organic pollutants and share the same global chemical properties. The new "green" PFC products are just so new that they haven't made it to the list of proscribed substances yet. I should, however, say that Nikwax, the product you used, is PFC free.
The second, more fundamental issue, is that it simply is not practical to keep washing and drying rain gear on any extended trips. Yes, if you only wear your rain gear for day hikes or short runs, that will work, but if you're going out for weeks at a time, it's simply not possible.
Not sure what the solution is, myself, except maybe gear made of silicon nylon with good armpit zips... Won't breathe, but will keep you dry, and you can always control ventilation to keep condensation at a minimum. That said, even that will fail to keep you dry given exercise intense enough.
When you go out for weeks at a time are you talking thru hikes? Because it seems you could treat a jacket on a resupply day. Probably not what you would want to be doing but you could. Depending on the length of trip I hope a single treatment world last a while. But I don’t have any statistics for that.
@@MyLifeOutdoors By "extended trips" I've meant anything more than a week or two. Could be thru hiking, but also section hiking, biking, sea kayak, canoe, anything really. Speaking by experience, after a day or two of rain no "breatable waterproof" gear is waterproof anymore, and you're going to be wet and miserable.
Washing is possible but you do not always have access to what is required. Try finding DWR wash in a laundromat in the middle of nowhere, and that's assuming that there is a laundromat at your resupply spot. And, let's be honest, is this what you want to do on your zero days?
Silicone (rubber), not silicon (sand, essentially, used in manufacturing computer chips) is only as effective as the level of coating which is reflected (along with the material and weave of the fabric) as "hydrostatic head". The higher the number, the more waterproof, and for a longer period of time. Nylon is more hydrophilic than polyester, meaning that if there is a weak point in the coating, the nylon will absorb it and become waterlogged and heavy, as is what happened to an old, well used tarp that I used for hiking for years. Polyester, in theory, should absorb less water under identical conditions, but I replaced my tarp with a DCF one, which cannot absorb water. This non-woven textile might make good poncho material. I purchased one for a long section hike early this year, but it arrived too late, and I had to take my non-breathable, not-so-waterproof Lightheart Gear silnylon rain jacket. They make a coated one, which might be better, but it isn't offered in blaze orange.
Solution is wool from sheep.
They need to be sheared, cuz domesticated, so you are doing good for animals, and even when wet, you'll be warmer.
@@0hn0haha not sure why so many don’t understand wool is superior and has been the best for keeping warm/dry for thousands of years...
Great video! I've had really disappointing results with a lot of rainproofing, and having rain jackets wet out quickly. The only thing I've had work perfectly even with heavy use is the neverwet 2 part aerosol. I used it on my boonie hat and though it made the colors a lot lighter and faded looking, water completely rolls off with nearly zero penetration into the fabric, let alone passing through
I had this happen to me just the other day... It started raining just as I was about to head out so I grabbed my rain jacket that I've had for about seven years now? As soon as I stepped outside I could feel myself getting soaked. Surprised the hell out of me when it had happened because of how good that jacket had been even just the year prior. I thought it had just finally hit its shelf life... Now I guess I'll be ordering this spray and doing a reapplication.
I gave up on "breathable" clothing long ago and use cheap non breathable jackets. Since then I've never had a problem with wet out. The condensation issue IMHO is greatly overstated.
Same. Water repellent jackets are fine in a drizzle for a short period of time, but I never rely on them for heavier rains or for extended periods. A completely impermeable poncho is lightweight enough, cheap enough, and so much more effective that I see no reason for not carrying a couple with me when I am going to be out in it.
@@SuperDaveP270 I agree with you to go with non-breathable materials. However I guess that depends on the temperature and how active you plan to be during the rain. That is how much sweat you will produce.
Where I live it is usually not too warm when there is rain. In a rain forest will be another deal, so there you might need to use breathable raingear.
I am a bit suprised that you don't see combos sold. That would be the parts of the raingear that is up when used would be non-breathable, while some parts that are vertical would be breathable.
Do raingear like this exist?
@@SuperDaveP270 and the advantage of a poncho is you can hike it up for air circulation and change your clothes under it to make sure you don't overheat and sweat too much.
@@Rohan4711 i'm from the subtropics and a non breathable rain coat will just mean you get wet from sweat instead of rain.
That said, i just bring a light breathable jacket and only use it if it gets cooler than expected.
If its warm, i just get wet and deal with it.
Some people sweat more than others.
Some people run hotter more than others.
I can't wear that type of gear and stand still and not sweat.
Hey man great vid. Thanks. Been wondering why my Goretex jacket that used to work great hasn’t been working so well and why it seemed like the issue was not so much rain getting in but condensation building up and wetting it from the inside. This explains it. Gonna watch and reapply a repellant and hopefully that does the trick.
Last January, my winter "Waterproof" parka got wet-out during an all-day walking tour of Heidelberg, Germany during a very cold rainy winter day. I could feel the wetness inside the parka and I was getting quite chilled. I recently donated the parka to Goodwill -- I wish I would have watched your video before donating. I really liked that old parka.
4:36 yes I have experienced the “wet out” on numerous rain gear. The jacket/pants would begin to cling to my skin or inner layers and I would feel wet and cold, not nice. I had attempted to reapply a spray which you described in your video to restore its water repellence, not always successful though.
Great video! Keep the content coming!
Letter carrier with Canada post 35 years here. Uniform included heavy duty gortex that I only wore in snow. Higher temperatures you just got wet from the inside bc of sweat or wet out. My go too rain gear was always the knee length poncho, sometimes with rain pants if it was pelting down. With the exertion it would keep me warm enough in a shirt until it dipped into the 40s F. and the airflow was a relief compared to gortex. The downside with most ponchos is they’re a pain if it’s windy and really only good on well groomed trails. If you are scrambling or hiking over more uneven terrain they become a liability. (Can’t see your feet and it gets in the way) I might try the Frog Toggs you mentioned as an option to the poncho.
Great insight! I’m sure you got a lot of experience with rain in those 35 years! I’ve never hiked with a poncho but i can imagine the airflow is nice and not seeing your feet is not! Thanks for watching
I also wear a poncho, for pretty much the same reasons you stated. Plus, most small to medium backpacks fit just fine underneath, which is a huge bonus. One simple trick i've found which dramatically reduces the downsides: tie the poncho loosely around your waist with a piece of string or something. It's a guaranteed game changer, as it mostly stops the poncho from flying off in the wind, snagging on branches or getting in the way of your feet
@@ferdinandsteinvorth7313 I use a canteen belt with my poncho. Works mint
To up your poncho game, cut a slit in the front up to 6 or 8 inches below neckline. Also, trim the sides; hold your arms straight out, bent at the elbow, then mark about 2 inches beyond the elbow. Trim the edges from this mark down to the bottom edge, curving to about 4 inches on each side from the center of the bottom.
This turns it into more of a cape and limits the ability to be used as a tarp, but (1) the slit in the front increases ventilation, lets you keep your arms dry if you’re using poles, and lets the poncho stay more secure because it can slide on itself a little (you can also see your feet better); (2) the trimmed edges reduce weight, noise, and make it easier to control because you don’t have corners flapping around.
To go beyond that, use a waterproof brimmed hat like OR’s Seattle Sombrero and not the hood, although I’d only rely on that for a few hours of sustained rain, not days and days.
You can still use a belt for the wind.
I have hiked for hours in a downpour with my Frogg toggs and have never wet out. My wrists get a bit wet because they bunch up and collect water but other than that small complaint I love em.
Living in the desert we get that a lot with our rain gear and no one tells you anything else except replace whatever it is. Thank you this was helpful. Honestly the frog game really was helpful.
Thanks for the knowledge. I didn't know this, but it makes sense that breathable fabric would leak if not properly coated 👌
The dirtiest little secret is that “D”WR is anything but durable. I have had a precious few jackets that repelled water well for several years. Most stop beading up water within months. And that is with all the proper care I can give them - wash with special soap like NikWash, dry on medium heat. I have not found any DWR restoring product that improves it much, either, and I’ve tried almost all of them (NikWax, Granger, wash-in and spray-on, even aerosol silicone ones). It is in my opinion the biggest shortcoming of the outdoor industry. The new eco-friendly DWR’s (C6) are even worse. Is it better to have an environmentally friendly coating that means you have to throw away a jacket every year or two, or one that isn’t as eco friendly but lasts years?
@@leonsappl so I assume you only use wool, down, and silk? No synthetics made from dangerous petrochemicals? If that’s what you want to do, ok. I still maintain that making more durable coatings, and other aspects of gear (such as shoes), reduces replacement frequency and is better for the environment. I’m surprised you use silnylon - all those chemicals used to make and coat it?
@@leonsappl thank you for the level-headed reply. I also wish the manufacture of outdoor gear had less impact on the environment. I mean, who actually wants chemical contaminants in their backcountry water sources?
I wish I could just use a silnylon poncho everywhere, mostly because of the simplicity and ventilation. Unfortunately, I do a lot of above-tree line hiking, mountaineering, and ski touring where a poncho really doesn’t offer enough protection.
I guess what I really want is someone to develop a truly durable water-repellant coating that lasts the life of the fabric. I think that would be revolutionary.
@@bihlygoat would an umbrella & rain kilt do the job efficiently?
^^^^Question for you too@@leonsappl
@@leonsappl the rains in my region are torrential, & can't imagine people staying dry in anything for very long, & don't think people can ski or climb in tsunami like conditions. I'll try dwr treatments &pitzips w/ brella.. blackout shade is the main attraction feature.
Surprisingly well-produced videos, I would expect you to have a lot more subscribers with this kind of quality. Keep up the good work!
Thank you. I’m trying to grow but it’s slow.
@@MyLifeOutdoors I will subscribe. Since this pandemic nonsense, I've gotten back into camping/hiking. 👍
what an informative video. i dont hike, i dont climb, i dont run, but i do live in ny where we have all four seasons and information like this is good to have. thank you. subscribed.
Nicely done. I didn't even realise I was watching an ad until the product showed up. Slick.
"Breathable fabrics" don't release any vapor when the outside of your fabric has a humidity level that is too high.
The higher the relative humidity, the less they work.
For years have favored waterproof non-breathable raingear with large venting zippers like a plain silnylon Packa.
If the moist air has somewhere to go, it will. That's why raingear that bellows will keep you drier longer than a WPB jacket.
Another advantage of a Packa is that it goes over your pack rather than under it. That way your shoulder straps aren't trapping air from moving to let the moisture out.
Yeah, agreed. I've never had much bad luck with rain while hiking and camping, but I've done construction work plenty in the rain over the years. I'm not impressed by the breathable claims. I prefer pvc jackets or the like. They're way cheaper also.
What brand of raingear do you use?
@@TrondBakkeFlgstad I've got a Carhartt PVC rain coat that I've had forever. If I'm going to be in the rain for a long time I'll use it. I do have a Marmot Precip breathable one that is long overdue to be rewaterproofed, it is nice because it's light but it wets through if I'm in it more than 20 minutes.
They both make me sweat in the summer. In the winter I generally don't notice breathability.
@@TrondBakkeFlgstad Look up The Packa.
I know it looks silly when I'm hiking but I've always brought along a large umbrella. Keeps you dry, makes a kind of shelter for starting a fire and once I scared off a really big black bear by opening and closing it really quickly in his face.
After the big black bear experience I bet you had a big brown problem in your pants!🤭 So glad you’re here to recommend the umbrella. 👍
@@johnhow6971 That's why when I'm hiking or camping I always wear adult diapers... just for those moments.
@@cerberus6654 And you can scare away other hikers by opening and closing the diapers quickly in their faces
I never knew about this, I'm not a hiker and I don't really watch gear reviews, but this popped up in my recommendation and I watched it yesterday. Today I happened to need my rain jacket and for the first time I experienced wet out. So, thanks for cursing my jacket and getting me all moist today.
Haha! Happy to help.
After 12 years on BC's coast, I've found that 2.5 layer gortex wets out in 10-15 minutes of normal rain and 3 layer gortex may last a few hours, if both are given regular treatment with DWR washes. Smoother outer fabrics seem to reduce the rate that water seeps through too. Non-permiable rubber or plastic coats are definitely more reliable, if less comfortable.
Yeah I was miserable and wetted out dispute waterproof jacket and pants on a hiking trip when I passed a pair of ladies wearing nothing but skivvies and a pancho happy as clams. I felt real dumb and that’s my go to strategy now.
i agree, and add my tips - i carry a poncho for real heavy downpours and take it off when it eases. this gives the jacket a break from dealing with torrential rain, and doesnt wet out so quick. I also ease off the pace and unzip my shell jacket under the poncho when walking/ climbing in heavy rain to keep sweat down, and sometimes just hunker down under my poncho (like a quick bivi tent) in the worst rain, which generally will ease off while i have a rest and a snack. Its not a race! ps i once had my shell jacket stolen at a cafe and the poncho saved the day. you can also carry a couple of black sacks for emergency waterproofs. Can you tell I walk in Scotland a lot ;)
Midges don’t like rain - a good reason for walking in wet weather 😊
It's my theory that when the humidity is high and the temperature is low (as is usually the case with rainy days) that it's literally impossible to stay totally dry. I think of rain gear as being something to keep you damp as opposed to being totally soaked to the bone. I try to pack enough insulation (non-down) to be warm even when your clothes are damp and just learn to deal with the wetness. Also a good tarp set up and the occasional camp fire can help alot too.
The only rain gear to keep me dry was a non breathable rubberized nylon trenchcoat combined with knee high rubber bogg boots. The trench coat gave enough breathability out the bottom.
Good information here. Forty years ago, I gave up on the mountains and focused on the desert. I was tired of getting wet. Now I know why my rain gear only ever worked just after I bought it new. Thank you for keeping me dry. I may go back to 'packing again.
40 years and you only just have a answer that may work or not for you?
Blimey 😧
Great tip...especially treating old tents. This will definitely be used. Keep up the great work.
I use the tech wash and the dwr treatment on my tents at least once a year. End of season, and mid-season if they get real dirty on a trip. And - side benefit - my tents last for years.
I was a Lollipop Man (School Crossing Patrol) for a few years. This is exactly what happened with my rain gear. (At sea I wore Oil skins) I accepted I was going to get soaked through for a lot of my time at work. Wish I knew this then lol. Simply explained and now I know!
Don’t forget that smoke from an open fire will take away the DWR treatment. Wash Gore-tex often!
A Gore-tex pro shell garment can be washed up to 500 times👍
Yes, the theory is the same for a range of waterproofing. I use oil-skin clothing and also waterproof my swag regularly.
Important to be aware that some new fabrics receives waterproofing products better after being wet or washed first, to help open up the weave and create a texture for the product to bind to and immerse into the fabric. Folding the fabric can also accelerate the loss of effectiveness in waterproofing. So how you pack your tent/swag or how physical you are in a garment may affect how often you need to reapply.
...and, as they say, pay attention to the stitching and seams.
My answer to keeping dry is one word Filson. I've never had a leak or condensation problems with their waxed canvas coat and along with their mackinaw wool vest never cold. Can be rewaxed if needed and although pricey will last you a lifetime even passing on to grandkids. Old school and time proven beats any petroleum based synthetic out there. Filson is a NW Seattle based company thats been around since the late 1800's. with production of classic items still made there. Synthetics are expensive and don't last and are all about making corporations profits.
Actually wool/cotton or any natural fiber just naturally decompose. Not to mention weight... A company could make even better stuff using longer lasting synthetic materials.
Merlin, My expensive Irish waxed cotton hat (not a Filson) shrunk after the first rain. So much so that I can't wear it. Tried wetting & stretching, but no success.
Filson is absolute, overpriced, hipster junk. I bought their Tin Cruiser and its full of holes and fraying within two years. One of the two buttons that holds the hood on is missing. I have their Double Tin coveralls, and the canvas is still decent on that but I don't wear that nearly as much, but the suspenders have lost their elasticity. Cotton canvas is also heavy as fuck, but I bought it knowing that, thinking it would last. Worst $600 I've ever spent. You sound like you're just repeating their advertising verbatim.
Stay away from Filson. Their warranty is no longer valid. I bought a shirt, washed it as directed and it shrunk a whole size. They would not even discuss it with me. They said you washed it you bought it.
I discovered they were bought by an investment company and are running the company into the ground. I’d advise to stay away from their overpriced products
@@savage22bolt32 never wash waxed canvas, same with 100% wool , wool does not seem to be affected by body odor and waxed canvas doesn't ether.
You’re exactly right I’ve been using Nick wax for years now. However more recently I have switched to Helly Hansen Impertech, or something like that, it’s what a lot of Alaskan guides use, as it is a completely rubberized waterproof outer layer that does stretch some what, and it is well vented. Great video excellent information keep up the great work!
I was lucky enough to catch on really quick during my planning stages for my AT thru hike.
"I feel like an idiot" 🤣🤣🤣
Awesome video and super helpful info. Definitely had wet out on my last trip where it rained like CRAZY on the 3rd day--all day. Will have to pick up some of that NikWax and try it out. Thanks, man!
I hope it works out well for you. It’s super easy to use.
Having done the backpacking thing for some time now, I tend to not wear any rain gear and change wet clothes in camp. If you have the time, set up a tarp and wait it out. If you are in a time crunch or in a place where the rain won't let up, you'll just have to suck it up until you can get home.
Try that in Scotland and you’ll die of hypothermia.
@@wittsend541 if you are in Scotland then breathable probably isn't very important 3 seasons out of the year and you can just wear a 100% waterproof jacket. I live in Iceland which is fairly similar--very windy and rainy--and I wear a rubber coat, I gave up on everything else.
@@wittsend541 even Scotland has an animal called sheep. Try pure products made of their outerwear...
Even wet wool keeps you warm.
@@christopherrowley7506 where can you buy a good quality rubber coat from? I assume it's not breathable but very waterproof?
@@blahbleh5671 good question... I just got mine on sale from a local store here called Icewear. Outside of Iceland though I'm sure you have many more options for cheaper and better quality. Mine gets the job done though
loved the video, going to camp this weekend!
Fantastic video.
No matter what I wear I sweat so much I’m soaking inside. Nothing has ever wicked moisture away fast enough to keep me close to dry. Ugh. Finally just bought a plain ol’ yellow raincoat. At least the backing of the rubber fabric keeps it from sticking to my skin. That’s the part I really hate. Gonna be hot and sweaty either way. 🤷♂️
Great video! This has been an issue I've had with rain jackets for a very long time and its great to finally have it explained.
In my experience if you're dealing with truly persistent rainfall, you've gotta look outside the realm of hiking gear. I used to trek during the rainy season in the Andes and I found a cheap fisherman's jacket and rubber boots work great. I recently went to the Ho Rainforest and applied the same gear again to see if the gear held up as well as I remembered. Despite getting buckets of rain, we stayed quite dry. However when the aforementioned gear isn't appropriate, I've always packed a light fleece to go under my rain shell. Fleece wicks well, doesn't really retain water, and stays warm when wet preventing that cold feeling of rain water touching the skin. If it's too warm for the fleece, I simply don't bother with a shell at all. A light t-shirt dries faster than any jacket.
Shakedry (goretex) only has the membrane no other layers 👍
2 theories of wet weather outdoors (as far as I'm concerned).
1) accept that you will get wet, focus on staying warm and drying out quickly.
2) try to stay dry as best you can.
I go for 1 more and more these days. And focusing on #1, makes #2 work that much better when you do it.
@@clairevyanse5645 Yes, if you are helpless and fear the outdoors, you are free to live in fear your entire life and sit on the couch and live in a bubble of perceived safety.
But some of us actually venture out into the real world, and sometimes have no choice whether we must face the elements. Life happens, whether you like it or not. And knowing how to handle it can save your life. Exposure can kill in hours, and people who aren't mentally incapacitated by their fear can handle that reality.
@@clairevyanse5645 No, I will never shut up. The only mouth you can control is your own, might want to look to that. For one, it's not your comment thread. And since you're not a hiker, backpacker or "bushwacker" and never leave your home, your comment is meaningless.
60lbs? lightweight wimps. What does weight have to do with anything anyways? How would you know what 60lbs is like if you never leave your house?
You do realize that this applies to everyone who goes outside in the rain or other wet weather conditions, right? But then again, how could you? You never leave your house.
I experienced wetout on my zeltbahn (german shelter half). I solved it with old-school method for waterproofing: scratch zeltbahn with wax candle then use hairdryer to make the wax soak in. It's inconsistend and tedious, but if done properly it works quite well. But speaking of old-school, there's one more possibility that I want to mention and that is to have woolen clothing. Wool has interesting attribute that even when it's wet, it keeps small air pockets and retains isolation capability. I personally experienced this during reenactment: in summer I had woolen uniform and it was soaking wet from sweat, but even when it started to be colder or windy, I never felt cold. The uniform worked almost as well as if it was dry. I don't have it tested during rain, and I imagine that some heavy rainfall would rob you of heat even just through the sheer amount of cold water that your clothing would be in contact with. But with anything less than that, it should work.
I've been using a gander mountain rain coat for 7 years. It would soak through eventually in heavy rain. I started putting scotch guard on it a couple times a year and have not been soaked through sinse. I also use it on my tent. A few pieces of gear I use wax and scotch guard on. Don't really have an issue with staying dry anymore.
As jungle soldiers for many years my mates and I had a saying: 'Any fool can get wet, it takes a trained soldier to stay dry.' The best if are active and hiking or moving around a lot is definitely a large cape that goes over your pack and keeps that dry while allowing your body to ventilate. It allows the inside dampness and humidity to dry out. In Vietnam where I've been living full time for the last 20 years (I highly recommend it), we wear full capes when riding our motorbikes. These keep us bone dry in the humidity of intense monsoonal downpours. Forget all about fitted raincoats with long sleeves and belts etc. Whenever possible wear short sleeves and shorts with rubber clog shoes. The latter protect your feet well, are very durable and dry out in minutes.
Very interesting. Have you thought about making a video?
@@studiophantomanimation I used to do some vids on Vn in the past. But I'm getting on now at 71. I am more of a writer than a vloger. Besides which I now have long covid - shortness of breath, phlemy throat, and blocked sinus in the mornings. This has dragged on for 6 weeks now. I will visit home in Western Australia in 2 weeks after 3 years of covid lockout. I hope the change of climate and environment helps. Ps Big capes are defininely the way to go in veryy wet warm climates. Cheers, Zip.
Thank you for sharing us your infos.Can you please show us which capes you mean? What material they have? Where are good examples to buy?
@@Mr.Dan. I just used a hooch (the single green nylon sheet we got issued with in the army as a half shelter.) I simply draped it over my pack and me and had a little cord to atttach it around my neck like a large cloak. This is the best wet weather low heat build up coverr when walking over rough terrain. On cold dry nights, instead of errecting it as a half cover I'd roll myself up in it so it trapped in my body heat. Cheers.
I was one of the people to test the very first garmets (jackets) made from Gortex. Very quickly, we experienced the problem with body oils, dirt, and even smoke. I tried a lot of the generations of Gortex and other fabrics and have to say I wasn't totally convinced this was the wonder it was supposed to be. Taking care of your gear is an absolute must but IMO there is no substitute for wisdom in good decision making and logistics. Knowing when to hole up, when to shed layers to keep from sweating, or to push through to shelter or a situation where you can recover and so on. Like the video.
I just got completly soaked 3 days ago on Mount Fuji luckily on the way down, hope this works going to try !
I have a Berghaus GoreTex jacket and after about 15 years of use it was wetting out. Washed with Techwash, did the TX Direct treatment, and dried in a tumble drier on low. Can confirm it all works exactly as described, and I have basically a new jacket. However, if I go on a day’s shooting and know I will be standing in the rain for hours, I will always wear my waxed cotton Barbour jacket. I have stood on a hillside in driving rain for three hours and the bits the jacket covered were warm and dry. The rest, not so much. Horses for courses - I wouldn’t wear my Barbour to do strenuous exercise as it’s far too heavy and bulky, but it’s the closest to actual waterproof I have.
I'm surprised to hear DWR treatment be referred to as a "dirty secret" of the industry. My £30 Decathlon Jacket is still going strong a few years on, I treat it after every proper wet hike
So what you are saying is your 30gbp jacket is now worth 130 over the years due to the regular use of DWR cans
@@Rusiputki 😂😂😂
West coast of Scotland here and 'wet out' is an inevitable part of camping/hiking for most of the year.
I use a fully waterproof poncho that I can use as a tarp also.
I can set it up as I'm taking it off. Pretty nifty.
i also can recommend using a huge multi purpose poncho for about 40$. Merino below that.
breathable raingear isnt worth the money imho. 200$or more. and it quickly smells funny. better buy some Merino stuff
I've used the Tech wash and dry also on clothes that aren't meant to be waterproof to just give them a touch of rain repellant. Probably shouldn't, but it works. I get bead's in light rain so it does it for me!
Wish I knew this a long time ago. Yup, it definitely is a dirty little secret in the majority rain gear industry. I live on Vancouver Island BC, the west coast of Canada where it rains less at times but still a lot (on occasion with seriously damaging atmospheric rivers nowadays) in the fall, winter and spring Nov-April. Thank you for this video. ❤
I work in a camping shop and I can tell you that this is no secret, we try and tell everyone who will listen about this.
Why not just sell materials that are actually waterproof? :-P
Yes cheaper than new jacket, but no secret!
@@matsveritas2055 that nots capitalism..
@@matsveritas2055 As he said in the video, no water is getting in. It's just that the water evaporating from your body on the inside doesn't have anywhere to go, so it stays inside.
Same way you get wet when wearing rubber gloves.
@@josefstalin4532 Thanks, Stalin!
My experience with DWRs (Nikwax and so on) is that they bead off nicely from my Berghaus rain jacket under a cold tap (looks really cool - just like on RUclips videos), but wet out in minutes when exposed to God's own natural rain and drizzle. Really don't know what to do about this. At the moment I'm considering a 'shake-dry' jacket, which will at least be lighter to carry when I'm not using it.
Goretex? I recommend goretex packlite is that shake dry as well?
@@JoeZUGOOLA Shake-dry is Gore-Tex but IIRC the membrane is on the outside. Obviously that's not very well protected but people say it's resistant to wetting out. Probably more practical for more active sports than for hiking, etc. or everyday use.
Shake dry is great but I'm not sure I'd want to use it regularly while wearing a pack. I think you'd end up blowing the shoulders out pretty quickly.
I went with the Columbia Outdry Extreme based on a fairly significant cost differential, having been on the market longer, and reviews which suggest that it's more durable than Shakedry. Good experience with it so far. No shoulder blow-out (yet).