Little mac nair actually would help him out. He can chain it off stage to spike or combo with it. Now Olimar nair always pops up and struggles to kill.
Today i was just playing smash bros online and the guy just kept spaming up B and Side B, and he made me brake my switch, i hate him. Now i dont have a switch, and i had so many games on it, now it cant be fixed, and i cant afford a new one, i just hope god avenges me 😢😭
Give him Steve jumps/floatiness and mac dair. That would make it impossible to land. Also change back throw and forward throw to chrom so he gets no damage. The positioning is good for chrom on those throws but Stephen wouldn't be able to follow-up from the throws at all.
I really like the idea of giving Stephen one Olimar special that is basically useless because they can't use said Pikmin for anything. I said Down Special in my comment, but adding Neutral Special would also be funny
I think he should of went with bowser jr. Final smash, and also probably yoshi grab because its so laggy- besides that hero dash attack is the worst one in my opinion- as for down smash- zss down could be a risky choise but I think it works terrible with all the really slow and not even killing moves he has on
Believe it or not, Ganondorf isn't the slowest character in the game in a lot of ways. If you want really slow, you should go with Incineroar's ground speed and King Dedede's Air Speed. If you want to make his movement truly horrendous though, give him Steve's jump height, Kazuya's jump-squat, and Giga Bowser's fall speed. Other changes I'd make: > use Ivysaur's Bullet Seed as the N-Special. Falcon Punch can work as a hard read and is very punishing WHEN IT WORKS. In comparison, Bullet Seed may be faster, but not by that much, and there's basically no reward for landing it. > D-Special should be Olimar's Whistle. It's meant to recall Pikmin, but seeing as Stephen doesn't have any, the move will do almost nothing. (I say "almost" because the move actually has Super Armor on it, allowing skilled Olimar players to get out of sticky situations if they time the move right.) > Make all moves deal damage to himself like Pichu's electric moves do.
@@casual_ssb3282 You make a very good point! They'd just have Pikmin with them and be unable to do anything. Wouldn't even be able to manually get rid of them.
I was thinking the same thing with neutral special. Ivysaur's n-special is almost a situational as Hero's up smash with one of the worst payoffs in the game.
Can't wait to see how Lily makes DK into this. And it's funny seeing how George and Stephen are both basically inside the Kongs with one being the best and the other being the worst.
I would like to make a suggestion. For Up Tilt, I would have to go with Pac-Man’s. Just like Hero’s Up Smash, it’s a move that has no scooping hitbox and only hits directly above him with a tiny hitbox to go with it. Doesn’t even kill at all, either. As for character mechanics, Stephen has got to have Pichu’s self-damaging mechanic, and Jigglypuff’s Shield Break.
I think it would be more interesting to not have Little Mac’s air attacks and use the other ones you said. Also I’m pretty sure Little Mac’s nair is actually semi good because it’s frame 2 and can interrupt combos. So his nair is too good for Stephen
@@timothyreardon9848 The trade off of giving up aerials which are usable as attacks for a slight boost to your recovery is not worth it even in Stephen's case. It was a big mistake giving Ridley DAir to Stephen. That move will start killing eventually.
@@jedisnotfunny just change up b to yoshi since the little bit of upwards momentum won't do anything with ganondorfs movement. and good luck comboing into it
@@Kikonut15 yeah but that gives them a projectile, which could accidentally give them a decent neutral. In my opinion, the best idea I heard was to give them Solo Ice Climber's Up Special.
I think you've made a grave mistake giving Stephen Rosa's Final Smash. Rosa can up throw someone into final smash, which makes it harder to escape (though I don't know if it's a true combo) and kills as early as 50%. With Shulk up throw, Stephen might be able to do this too. I think the Final Smash needs to be Sonic's, which by nature is almost impossible to set up into and is also more difficult to kill with.
"We of course want stephen to have an awful recovery to just be completely helpless offstage" "I know you a lot of you are thinking little mac or doc" Sing: Am I a joke to you?
Incineroar's run speed, DDD's air speed ( I don't know if that is the slowest), Kazuya's jump squat, Olimar's down B, Puff's shield break and single Ice climber up B (and side B, maybe?) would be appropriate
because he's wide but light, I like to think of Stephen as a character who's inflated like a balloon. And because of how much Little Mac is in him, I can't not imagine him with boxing gloves. Also he'd definitely have Pac-Man style alts.
I'm a bit confused. In the video when talking about specials, you said Little Mac's USpecial was the contender, but at the end in your summary of all the moves and properties Stephen would be getting, you listed USpecial as going to Jigglypuff. Whose USpecial is Stephen getting?
Actually, a case for Olimar’s nair being worse can be made. Mac’s nair is fast so it can work in combos. It also works as a combo breaker. Olimar’s nair actually does nothing
Wait what about jigglypuff up-b? You literally die if you go offstage and don't have a jump. And besides since the rest of Stephens moveset sucks he won't have that good reward for landing it. And Jigglypuff forward tilt. Also Samus jab is at least frame 3, and warios is frame 8 with barely more pay-off. I feel like Mock Rocks worst of every move dlc retrospective has all the answers right there. (Edit: if using Jiggs up b then I'd say keep ZSS forward smash over d3 because you won't kill if you get a sing.)
if you didn't read the rest of the comments, a healthy reminder that Stephen also has Skewer (free 60%) and Falcon Punch (quote from the wiki, kills at 60), so theoretically a Sing -> Skewer -> good read is immediate death!
I’m think going for Ridley Dair instead of Mac is a mistake. Yes Ridley’s Dair sucks, but it gives Stephen somewhat of an option in disadvantage. Yes it’s a very predictable option, but it’s an option nonetheless. If you give him Mac’s Dair, he’s literally got nothing to get out of disadvantage. Also I may be biased as I started with Melee, but Sheiks taunt is too iconic to say it’s the worst, I think G&W has the worst down taunt.
You shouldn't give stephen mac nair because its a frame 2 aerial combo breaker, I think olimars nair is worse because its tiny, is frame 7, doesn't kill at any reasonable percents, doesn't really combo, and does very little damage.
Mii brawlers is better because it deals the exact same damage, but it is slightly faster, has armor near the end of its charge up, and is -5 on shield as opposed to Falcon’s -30. (It doesn’t look as cool though.)
@@Baby_999 Which Mii Brawler Neutral Speical? Mac Punch is a very good punish tool and kill move Shot Puck is one of the BEST edge guarding projectiles I guess the kick is kinda bad
i definitely would’ve picked chrom/roy back throw, maybe sheik forward throw since it doesn’t really send forward (and he ain’t comboing nothing with those little mac aerials so even tho it’s good on sheik it would suck on this character), and DEFINITELY duck hunt up b. the only reason duck hunt is ever able to recover is because they have projectiles they can use to protect them while getting back to the stage. if you take away that aspect they would have the worst, most vulnerable recovery in the game on top of the move having no other utility at all.
Even as a Yoshi main, I kill myself multiple times by accidentally using side B while over an edge. Easily the worst side B in the game, I hope Stephan enjoys suffering through it.
well, he would have to do that offline either against cpu's or with friends since doing it online would risk him getting his switched banned. and friends might get repetative and cpu's sure as hell wont have intertainment
What would happen if you gave him Pokemon Trainer or Pyra/Mythra down b? Would it just do nothing because there is no one to swap to? Or would it actually swap the characters? Depending on how this works you could potentially give him a down b that does literally nothing. With Ridley down b he could at least do some heavy damage if he manages to hit it.
You can get some cheesy kills with jigglypuff fs by going off stage and using her fs. There is a wind box that pushes the player away from jigglypuff making it so they die
5:14 The clear solution was to use ice climber’s Up-B. Since there is no second climber, it is the WORST recovery in the game AND has no hitbox. Ultimate uselessness!
As a Byleth main, her down B is really not all that terrible. It works well for mix-ups and can insta-break shield with a full charge. You can also start the charge in midair, which makes it a nice variation in air recovery. It is not a move I use regularly, but it can lead to the occasional shield break or free aerial recovery.
Character Size: Mewtwo Weight - Pichu (62) Run - Incineroar (1.18) Walk - Incineroar (0.62) Fall Speed - Fox (2.05) Air Speed - King Dedede (0.35) Grab Range - Ice Climbers (10) Grab animation - Pacman (active frames 12-33 58 total) Full hop - Steve Short hop - Steve Initial Dash - Steve (1.45) Fair - Olimar Bair - Olimar Dair - Olimar Nair - Megaman Usmash - Olimar Dsmash - Olimar Fsmash - Olimar Up B - Jigglypuff Side B - Olimar Down B - Hero (won't have mana)/Deep Breathing (for people who think that that was unfair( (Picked Olimar because cannot do anything without pikmin) Utilt - Pacman (can only hit above) Dtilt - Jigglypuff Stilt - Bayonetta Jab - Samus Fthrow - Pacman Dthrow - Kazuya Uthrow - shulk Bthrow - Sheik Taunt - Game and watch sigh (needs a break Final Smash - Peach/Daisy (no punish game except grab)
Nice Ideas on both videos. But if you're so confident in both of your created children. Mod them both into existence. And pit 1 George cpu vs 7 Stephen cpu's. No player influences. Also. You didn't give George a final smash. Or maybe you did and I'm just bad at hearing. Also kinda wish that you would have just waited until the final character release before making the previous video. That way you could've been thorough and sure in all made choices. But eh. Here we are.
1:59 I disagree. Sure Ridley is a suicide kill. You obviously wouldn’t use it for offstage. You’d use it in juggling situations and as a footstool out of shelf option. Sure the coverage isn’t that good, but it’s pretty fast for a stall & fall at frame 11, and the sour spot has good kill power. Little Mac’s down air is mainly used for jab locks, and as we can see with the use cases that Ridley has, I’m pretty comfortable saying that Little Mac has the worst down air. It lacks range, it’s sweetspot is pretty hard to land too. It’s less useful than Ridley’s to me. Same with f-tilt at 5:45. Sure Bayonetta’s is hella inconsistent but it doesn’t lack too much range and was patched to be a combo starter(which also made the nose safer on sheild). My pick would be Jigglypuff because it has so little range that you could call it an alternative jab. Except that it’s a frame 7 jab, and it’s a frame 7 jab that doesn’t really have much payoff when landing either than being -7 on sheild. Plenty of characters have an out of sheild option fast enough to punish that. Especially against a character with the size of Donkey Kong. Also Peach & Daisy’s jab are out of the picture at 7:05 because they’re FRAME 2! That’s very fast in close quarters. You're reason for booting them out is because the slap sound effect is one of your favorites in the game. You literally don't mention anything else man! That’s out of the picture instantly. And again. I disagree with your jab pick at 7:20. At least Samus’s jab is frame 3 and has pretty good range. You could use as a panic do or die option in close quarters. Obviously you wouldn’t use the second hit of jab since it’s too slow to connect. You’d probably have to go for mixups with different moves, but Samus’s jab is not fully useless. Shulk’s jab too is one of the worst, but at least the 3rd hit is disjointed and the 1st how is faster than Wario’s jab. WARIO’S JAB HAS A FRAME 8 STARTUP. And guess what. It’s still stubby, and it’s only use case is for platform tech chase setups. Not as versatile across any stage as Samus’s. 7:29 is very weird because you say that any character would want a dash attack that can combo, kill, or at least be fast so it can be a good burst option. And then at 7:35 you say that Bowser’s dash attack, Lucina’s, and Ivysaur’s are a contender. I completely agree with Lucina being on the table it’s very laggy and doesn’t have the best payoff, but Bowser’s is frame 11 which is decently fast. And Ivysaur’s dash attack is FRAME 4! JUST AS FAST AS FOX! King Dedede’s is the slowest in the game. And the payoff of landing it isn’t really enough to make up for it. It’s not safe on sheild. Sure it can murder opponents and two frame. But you’re more likely to hit the sour spot because the sweetspot is active for 2 frames. It’s not useless, but I still choose King Dedede because at least Bowsers has decent speed and doesn’t lack any range. 9:06. Just because the Ice Climbers have the shortest grab in the game, doesn’t mean it’s the worst. Yeah it’s not good. It’s frame 8 which doesn’t make up a whole lot for it. But at least it’s not as slow & laggy as the Belmonts. Their grab is frame 10 and it also doesn’t have a lot of range to make up for it. Also it‘s a bit laggier.
piranha plant's back air is fucking sick, man. big, powerful, disjointed hitbox. why are you using it offstage when piranha plant has so many better options for edgegaurding like neutral B or down air spike?
I think the best choice for the worst character is juste to take dk, only keep his size, then past olimar on it and make his neutral B falcon punch and his up b litte mac. You have now a character with useless: -up air -down air -forward air -back air -smash attack -side b looks pretty trash to me. (and yea olimar down B has armor on it so it dosnt count as useless you can land with it)
Hold up, ness forward throw is actually really good, while it never kills it's the best at getting people offstage at low percents and gets really nice cheese kills from town and city platforms. Something like Ivysaur would probably be better, but there are probably better examples
And to be fair thats how he was designed so its perfectly valid to give Stephen 4 of his ariels, Mac needs those F tier ariels for ground moves that honestly stand toe to toe with some heavies tbh
Sonics Final Smash is objectively the worst, it deals like 20 at best and only ever gets value if you have a roof above your head. It never kills unless the character your fighting has no recovery and slow fall speed, and it doesn't let you recover either. It has literally no uses.
Kirby's stone is actually pretty OP if you think about it It's probably one of the safest finishing move for characters that have a slow/bad recovery or just plainly using it when a character wants to grab the ledge (which everyone tries to do) Sometimes you can get cheeky kills with it or use it as a tool to grab a ledge as fast as you can
Jiggly puff up b has no recovery potential whatsoever though??? And it can’t even kill. Yes you could land falcon punch after but that’s not worth the recovery slot and out of shield option both being gone
Definitely should've used puff final smash, the only thing it does is make people go away until it ends, plus you could probably combo something into rosa final smash, puff's final smash is just bad all around
I could’ve made this character worse for sure: olimar neutral B, olimar down b, yoshi side b and jigglypuff up b. The rest of the moves don’t even matter
I think falcon punch is way to good for Stephen u forgot that mii brawler has a worst version of that move in every way, perfectly suited for stenphan.
replace neutral b with pikmin pluck but do not let any other moves use pikmin then replace up b with jiggly puff replace up tilt with pac man bc it doesnt hit ground opponents
Go to a major and do random money matches against people. But make a mod that forces player one’s random into george while player two’s random is forced onto steven. Major bag alert.
I love the detail of how he says daisy instead of peach because he likes daisy more. I can respect that because I like Daisy more than peach. just want to point that out
@hippity hoppity your soul is the 9’s property if you watch samus players they use jab 1 for pressure a lot because it has very low endlag, it's a great poke
If Mac's coach could coach and cheer on Stephen, which I assume he can since he has a Mac taunt (and the coach sometimes cheers during gbe taunt), then I say Stephen still has a chance💪
What if he chose Olimar Specials. I don't know what they are, but one plucks pikmin, side b throws Pikmin and one calls Pikmin. He can have the first one or the last 2. He will either have Pikmin and not be able to attack with them or be able to attack using Pikmin but not have any Pikmin to attack with, unless he gets some at the start of every stock (they die quickly anyways). I think one of these might replace falcon punch, again I don't know what they are I don't use Olimar.
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
yall got some good ideas with suggestions!! maybe stephen might have a few moves changed when we officially meet him...
You could give him fox falling speed to make it harder to recover
Little mac nair actually would help him out. He can chain it off stage to spike or combo with it. Now Olimar nair always pops up and struggles to kill.
Give the guy an up b that doesn't recover like jigglypuff's
Today i was just playing smash bros online and the guy just kept spaming up B and Side B, and he made me brake my switch, i hate him. Now i dont have a switch, and i had so many games on it, now it cant be fixed, and i cant afford a new one, i just hope god avenges me 😢😭
Give him Steve jumps/floatiness and mac dair. That would make it impossible to land. Also change back throw and forward throw to chrom so he gets no damage. The positioning is good for chrom on those throws but Stephen wouldn't be able to follow-up from the throws at all.
Stephen vs George will be a legendary battle
George: Finally, a worthy opponent. This battle will be legendary.
*looks at Stephen*
\/ @ChillBirbo
@@StarmisYTP Stephen: (insert depressed donkey Kong meme)
YES
Legendary...and quick
"GEORGE! WINS!"
-accouncer
If possible, the up-b should have been the single ice climber up-b
Facts
Or puff
I can’t wait for them to add this to the game with mods!
Yes relise him
True :]
I have secret intel that nintendo is making a pack with both george and stephen for dlc.
Kadyn gamer man That’s as believable as someone claiming a time traveler sent them to Odd World (You know who I’m talking about.)
@@peashootergaming7903 he did that in the past you know he could do that again
I can't wait to outplay you with Steven
Vern how you got no replies :(
Underrated bruv
Imagine giving character an ability to pluck pikmins but do not let him use them
I really like the idea of giving Stephen one Olimar special that is basically useless because they can't use said Pikmin for anything.
I said Down Special in my comment, but adding Neutral Special would also be funny
That being said, presenting Rosalina's Side-B Luma-less
@@ninjapotatolorf6237 down b is broken it has armor
@@owenicewater9704 I know it does; I didn't want it to be COMPLETELY useless, but I did want it to be super niche and rarely used.
@@ninjapotatolorf6237 have you watched Dabuz? That move would not be rarely used. I think skewer is a far worse move overall
4:55
I think he should've gone with SINGLE ICE CLIMBER Up-B. Now THAT is worthless.
The fact that it ends up actually being used in the next Steven video is outrageous 😳
I thought he’d go with Jigglypuff up-b, though I guess Stephen could probably kill with Falcon Punch if he actually landed it.
I thought he'd go with yoshi up-b since it has very little recovery potential and is not a very good projectile
At 10:36 it shows that he changed it to jigglypuff up B, he just didn't say anything.
I think he should of went with bowser jr. Final smash, and also probably yoshi grab because its so laggy- besides that hero dash attack is the worst one in my opinion- as for down smash- zss down could be a risky choise but I think it works terrible with all the really slow and not even killing moves he has on
Also I think jigglypuff would be the worst up B to use
@@hungergamer4710 but hero dash attack can kill
Believe it or not, Ganondorf isn't the slowest character in the game in a lot of ways. If you want really slow, you should go with Incineroar's ground speed and King Dedede's Air Speed. If you want to make his movement truly horrendous though, give him Steve's jump height, Kazuya's jump-squat, and Giga Bowser's fall speed.
Other changes I'd make:
> use Ivysaur's Bullet Seed as the N-Special. Falcon Punch can work as a hard read and is very punishing WHEN IT WORKS. In comparison, Bullet Seed may be faster, but not by that much, and there's basically no reward for landing it.
> D-Special should be Olimar's Whistle. It's meant to recall Pikmin, but seeing as Stephen doesn't have any, the move will do almost nothing. (I say "almost" because the move actually has Super Armor on it, allowing skilled Olimar players to get out of sticky situations if they time the move right.)
> Make all moves deal damage to himself like Pichu's electric moves do.
god giving pichu's electric as a cheater mechanic to just be worse.... beautiful
WOULDNT the worst neutral b be Olimar aswell. Since Stephen can’t use the pikmin
Rosa's side-b has to be the worst because Stephen wouldn't have a Luma, meaning all he'd do is wave an imaginary wand for no reason
@@casual_ssb3282 You make a very good point!
They'd just have Pikmin with them and be unable to do anything. Wouldn't even be able to manually get rid of them.
I was thinking the same thing with neutral special. Ivysaur's n-special is almost a situational as Hero's up smash with one of the worst payoffs in the game.
0:08 what are you trying to say about potatoes?
Can't wait to see how Lily makes DK into this. And it's funny seeing how George and Stephen are both basically inside the Kongs with one being the best and the other being the worst.
Me too
@@LilyLambda I love what you did with George. You're awesome at what you do.
@@hour236 :3
@@LilyLambda You did REALLY well with George, I can't wait to see what you do with Stephen!
imagine if she just made it BUFF Diddy Kong instead of DK for no reason, would be so much funnier
I would like to make a suggestion.
For Up Tilt, I would have to go with Pac-Man’s. Just like Hero’s Up Smash, it’s a move that has no scooping hitbox and only hits directly above him with a tiny hitbox to go with it. Doesn’t even kill at all, either.
As for character mechanics, Stephen has got to have Pichu’s self-damaging mechanic, and Jigglypuff’s Shield Break.
let's also give him olimar nuteral and down b since theres no point of them since the pikmin aren't used.
ganon utilt literally does nothing though,
@@Kikonut15 That would require giving Stephen friends, and if he doesn't deserve Daisy jab or cool taunts, he definitely doesn't deserve friends.
@@Missingno_Miner I don’t understand how he doesn’t deserve that jab but deserves falcon punch
@@Kikonut15 Olimar down special is frame 2 with armor. Sooo...
"Characters who are fast or agile will never be bad."
Little Mac: no
*Characters who are fast or agile and have good aerials will never be bad
@@K0DA._. Mewtwo and Ridley: no
Lucario with 10 top airspeed: no
@@kaedenle *Characters who are fast or agile, have good aerials, have smaller hurtboxes, and are consistent will never be bad?
@@K0DA._. Yes.
@@kaedenle So shulk Kirby?
I think it would be more interesting to not have Little Mac’s air attacks and use the other ones you said. Also I’m pretty sure Little Mac’s nair is actually semi good because it’s frame 2 and can interrupt combos. So his nair is too good for Stephen
Also little macs down air extends his horizontal range in the air significantly enough to make or break recoveries.
@@timothyreardon9848 The trade off of giving up aerials which are usable as attacks for a slight boost to your recovery is not worth it even in Stephen's case.
It was a big mistake giving Ridley DAir to Stephen. That move will start killing eventually.
this is gonna be pretty interesting actually , you've really gotta make sure the moves have absolutely no synergy
He changed up B to sing, which can combo into Falcon punch...
Whoops.
But also gives him no recovery
@@jedisnotfunny just change up b to yoshi since the little bit of upwards momentum won't do anything with ganondorfs movement. and good luck comboing into it
@@Kikonut15 yeah but that gives them a projectile, which could accidentally give them a decent neutral.
In my opinion, the best idea I heard was to give them Solo Ice Climber's Up Special.
@@ninjapotatolorf6237 oh yeah, that does what yoshi’s does but no projectile
I think you've made a grave mistake giving Stephen Rosa's Final Smash. Rosa can up throw someone into final smash, which makes it harder to escape (though I don't know if it's a true combo) and kills as early as 50%. With Shulk up throw, Stephen might be able to do this too. I think the Final Smash needs to be Sonic's, which by nature is almost impossible to set up into and is also more difficult to kill with.
How about Bayo's?
If you don't hiy the opponent enough, it does literally nothing.
And Stephen being so slow and with bad attacks...
Jigglepuff also has an awful FS.
"We of course want stephen to have an awful recovery to just be completely helpless offstage"
"I know you a lot of you are thinking little mac or doc"
Sing: Am I a joke to you?
Then again it can combo with Falcon Punch, and that's no good
@@MiguelMem " *never trust strangers!* " -sonic or something idfk
@@MiguelMem that's why falcon punch needs to be replaced with pikmin pluck but the character doesn't get pikmin.
And the down special can be whistle 🤣
Guess not since he didn't pick it. lol
"Heavy characters are typically bad."
George who has the weight of a giant ass turtle: *f-father...?*
Wow, I sure wonder how many Little Mac and Jigglypuff moves will be used lol
when I saw the video I thought of my 2 mains mac and puff. They are both so good..... except for all the places they're shit.
I was expecting a lot more Puff moves then he actually ended up with if I'm being honest.
@@EnergyBurst2 how lol
Are puff moves bad lol
Incineroar's run speed, DDD's air speed ( I don't know if that is the slowest), Kazuya's jump squat, Olimar's down B, Puff's shield break and single Ice climber up B (and side B, maybe?) would be appropriate
I can't wait for someone to use Steven and somehow make him a good character
He switched the Up B to sing on the final movelist screen, so I'm looking forward to Sing->Volcano Kick/Falcon Punch shenanigans.
MkLeo
@@K0DA._. Shoulda given him bullet seed so as to ensure he can't do anything useful if he gets a sing on someone.
@@K0DA._. he addressed in the reply section of the top comment that he didn't put sing into stephen's moveset because it's too reliable for kills
Peanut
because he's wide but light, I like to think of Stephen as a character who's inflated like a balloon. And because of how much Little Mac is in him, I can't not imagine him with boxing gloves. Also he'd definitely have Pac-Man style alts.
I'm a bit confused. In the video when talking about specials, you said Little Mac's USpecial was the contender, but at the end in your summary of all the moves and properties Stephen would be getting, you listed USpecial as going to Jigglypuff. Whose USpecial is Stephen getting?
Should've given him Ice climber's solo up-b tbh.
Yeah, weird. I thought up-would’ve gone to jigglypuff, that way Stephen has absolutely no recover potential.
@@XykonOverlord idk he'd be able to hit falcon punch with jiggs up b
@@improbablegaming6592 that’s true. It might still be worth having no recovery though.
@@improbablegaming6592 yoshi up-b then
Calling the "sh*t character" Stephen did NOT age well...
How?
Steve joke I think
Stephen Hawking
@@memelordsmemes Steve from Minecraft got added and is extremely OP
Steve was already added by this point
Dang, I didn't think it could get worse than Ganondorf
*laughs in little mac*
@@XykonOverlord 😐
I want to get punchout Wii in future
@@XykonOverlord *laughs in brawl ganondorf*
Little Mac on Kalos
@@kawee1 laughes in ivysour brawl
Actually, a case for Olimar’s nair being worse can be made. Mac’s nair is fast so it can work in combos. It also works as a combo breaker. Olimar’s nair actually does nothing
You better make this monstrosity a real character and forse Vernias to play it against george
Problem is if an enemy isn't good at mashing you *might* be able to get a falcon punch out of it at 100
Also, Samus jab is frame 3, while Wario's is frame 8, which is actually slower than his dash attack (frame 5).
I think wario jab is worse because samus can do the one hit then do anything else but wario doesn't combo into anything
But what follow up/mix up would a character with terrible movement and no tether grab get out of it?
You could still use ice climber grab. Even if it has the worst range
0:20 "Characters who are fast or agile will never be bad..."
*Immediately shows a clip of Little Mac*
Wait what about jigglypuff up-b? You literally die if you go offstage and don't have a jump. And besides since the rest of Stephens moveset sucks he won't have that good reward for landing it. And Jigglypuff forward tilt. Also Samus jab is at least frame 3, and warios is frame 8 with barely more pay-off. I feel like Mock Rocks worst of every move dlc retrospective has all the answers right there.
(Edit: if using Jiggs up b then I'd say keep ZSS forward smash over d3 because you won't kill if you get a sing.)
if you didn't read the rest of the comments, a healthy reminder that Stephen also has Skewer (free 60%) and Falcon Punch (quote from the wiki, kills at 60), so theoretically a Sing -> Skewer -> good read is immediate death!
@@thecatastrophe132 Not when you’re a super slow character where landing sing would be near impossible
@@gbx4858yeah but it's to good for that roll
Jigglypuffs forward is way to good for Stephen lol
You should have given him yoshi up-b. Yoshis up-b litterally isn't a recovery because yoshi doesnt need one. Perfect for Stephen.
Little Mac's side taunt is cool because of Doc Louis, I wouldve used DK's side taunt as its literally just him shaking off whatever is on his fur
Yeah but funny monke
I’m think going for Ridley Dair instead of Mac is a mistake. Yes Ridley’s Dair sucks, but it gives Stephen somewhat of an option in disadvantage. Yes it’s a very predictable option, but it’s an option nonetheless. If you give him Mac’s Dair, he’s literally got nothing to get out of disadvantage. Also I may be biased as I started with Melee, but Sheiks taunt is too iconic to say it’s the worst, I think G&W has the worst down taunt.
You shouldn't give stephen mac nair because its a frame 2 aerial combo breaker, I think olimars nair is worse because its tiny, is frame 7, doesn't kill at any reasonable percents, doesn't really combo, and does very little damage.
I can't believe you gave him Falcon Punch. That's like the coolest move in the game
Should have gave him the mii brawler slow and powerful move
Way less cool and is basically the same
Mii brawlers is better because it deals the exact same damage, but it is slightly faster, has armor near the end of its charge up, and is -5 on shield as opposed to Falcon’s -30. (It doesn’t look as cool though.)
It can also kill if you manage to land it.
@@Baby_999 Which Mii Brawler Neutral Speical?
Mac Punch is a very good punish tool and kill move
Shot Puck is one of the BEST edge guarding projectiles
I guess the kick is kinda bad
0:21 Characters who are fast and agile will never be bad
“Flashbacks to Sonic in Brawl”
Sometimes I forget he is even in brawl
Sometimes I forget he is even in the game
i definitely would’ve picked chrom/roy back throw, maybe sheik forward throw since it doesn’t really send forward (and he ain’t comboing nothing with those little mac aerials so even tho it’s good on sheik it would suck on this character), and DEFINITELY duck hunt up b. the only reason duck hunt is ever able to recover is because they have projectiles they can use to protect them while getting back to the stage. if you take away that aspect they would have the worst, most vulnerable recovery in the game on top of the move having no other utility at all.
"Characters who are fast will never be bad." Isn't little mac like top 5 run speed?
Now make him fight George
Not just top five, top three, actually.
Top 3, behind c falco and sonic
@@dvdv4270 falco ??
@@LuminoX688 falcon
Even as a Yoshi main, I kill myself multiple times by accidentally using side B while over an edge. Easily the worst side B in the game, I hope Stephan enjoys suffering through it.
nop in the actual mod they went with mario cape instead
You should do killing with every George move and maybe Stephen if he gets created :)
well, he would have to do that offline either against cpu's or with friends since doing it online would risk him getting his switched banned. and friends might get repetative and cpu's sure as hell wont have intertainment
What would happen if you gave him Pokemon Trainer or Pyra/Mythra down b? Would it just do nothing because there is no one to swap to? Or would it actually swap the characters?
Depending on how this works you could potentially give him a down b that does literally nothing. With Ridley down b he could at least do some heavy damage if he manages to hit it.
Both up B and final smash have to go to jiggs. Rosas final smash is actually really good if you up throw and then final smash
You can get some cheesy kills with jigglypuff fs by going off stage and using her fs. There is a wind box that pushes the player away from jigglypuff making it so they die
Puff hater lol
@@Mike-di3mo youre goddam right. idc about no damn windbox, jigglypuff final smash NEVER kills in a 1v1, wihch is just like baseline for final smashes
5:14
The clear solution was to use ice climber’s Up-B. Since there is no second climber, it is the WORST recovery in the game AND has no hitbox. Ultimate uselessness!
As a Byleth main, her down B is really not all that terrible. It works well for mix-ups and can insta-break shield with a full charge. You can also start the charge in midair, which makes it a nice variation in air recovery. It is not a move I use regularly, but it can lead to the occasional shield break or free aerial recovery.
Agreed. Not to mention it also has armor.
i feel like mii brawler down B (counter throw) would've been a better choice... the hitbox sucks, just look at fire the pyro explain it, im not smart
Character Size: Mewtwo
Weight - Pichu (62)
Run - Incineroar (1.18)
Walk - Incineroar (0.62)
Fall Speed - Fox (2.05)
Air Speed - King Dedede (0.35)
Grab Range - Ice Climbers (10)
Grab animation - Pacman (active frames 12-33 58 total)
Full hop - Steve
Short hop - Steve
Initial Dash - Steve (1.45)
Fair - Olimar
Bair - Olimar
Dair - Olimar
Nair - Megaman
Usmash - Olimar
Dsmash - Olimar
Fsmash - Olimar
Up B - Jigglypuff
Side B - Olimar
Down B - Hero (won't have mana)/Deep Breathing (for people who think that that was unfair(
(Picked Olimar because cannot do anything without pikmin)
Utilt - Pacman (can only hit above)
Dtilt - Jigglypuff
Stilt - Bayonetta
Jab - Samus
Fthrow - Pacman
Dthrow - Kazuya
Uthrow - shulk
Bthrow - Sheik
Taunt - Game and watch sigh (needs a break
Final Smash - Peach/Daisy (no punish game except grab)
Still find it hilarious that like a third of his moves is just Little Mac's
Nice Ideas on both videos. But if you're so confident in both of your created children. Mod them both into existence. And pit 1 George cpu vs 7 Stephen cpu's. No player influences. Also. You didn't give George a final smash. Or maybe you did and I'm just bad at hearing. Also kinda wish that you would have just waited until the final character release before making the previous video. That way you could've been thorough and sure in all made choices. But eh. Here we are.
giving him bad taunts is just rubbing salt in the wound. how dare you
1:59 I disagree. Sure Ridley is a suicide kill. You obviously wouldn’t use it for offstage. You’d use it in juggling situations and as a footstool out of shelf option. Sure the coverage isn’t that good, but it’s pretty fast for a stall & fall at frame 11, and the sour spot has good kill power. Little Mac’s down air is mainly used for jab locks, and as we can see with the use cases that Ridley has, I’m pretty comfortable saying that Little Mac has the worst down air. It lacks range, it’s sweetspot is pretty hard to land too. It’s less useful than Ridley’s to me.
Same with f-tilt at 5:45. Sure Bayonetta’s is hella inconsistent but it doesn’t lack too much range and was patched to be a combo starter(which also made the nose safer on sheild). My pick would be Jigglypuff because it has so little range that you could call it an alternative jab. Except that it’s a frame 7 jab, and it’s a frame 7 jab that doesn’t really have much payoff when landing either than being -7 on sheild. Plenty of characters have an out of sheild option fast enough to punish that. Especially against a character with the size of Donkey Kong. Also Peach & Daisy’s jab are out of the picture at 7:05 because they’re FRAME 2! That’s very fast in close quarters. You're reason for booting them out is because the slap sound effect is one of your favorites in the game. You literally don't mention anything else man! That’s out of the picture instantly. And again. I disagree with your jab pick at 7:20. At least Samus’s jab is frame 3 and has pretty good range. You could use as a panic do or die option in close quarters. Obviously you wouldn’t use the second hit of jab since it’s too slow to connect. You’d probably have to go for mixups with different moves, but Samus’s jab is not fully useless. Shulk’s jab too is one of the worst, but at least the 3rd hit is disjointed and the 1st how is faster than Wario’s jab. WARIO’S JAB HAS A FRAME 8 STARTUP. And guess what. It’s still stubby, and it’s only use case is for platform tech chase setups. Not as versatile across any stage as Samus’s. 7:29 is very weird because you say that any character would want a dash attack that can combo, kill, or at least be fast so it can be a good burst option.
And then at 7:35 you say that Bowser’s dash attack, Lucina’s, and Ivysaur’s are a contender. I completely agree with Lucina being on the table it’s very laggy and doesn’t have the best payoff, but Bowser’s is frame 11 which is decently fast. And Ivysaur’s dash attack is FRAME 4! JUST AS FAST AS FOX! King Dedede’s is the slowest in the game. And the payoff of landing it isn’t really enough to make up for it. It’s not safe on sheild. Sure it can murder opponents and two frame. But you’re more likely to hit the sour spot because the sweetspot is active for 2 frames. It’s not useless, but I still choose King Dedede because at least Bowsers has decent speed and doesn’t lack any range.
9:06. Just because the Ice Climbers have the shortest grab in the game, doesn’t mean it’s the worst. Yeah it’s not good. It’s frame 8 which doesn’t make up a whole lot for it. But at least it’s not as slow & laggy as the Belmonts. Their grab is frame 10 and it also doesn’t have a lot of range to make up for it. Also it‘s a bit laggier.
4:47
"Despite my smile, I'm internally screaming"
You're welcome
piranha plant's back air is fucking sick, man. big, powerful, disjointed hitbox. why are you using it offstage when piranha plant has so many better options for edgegaurding like neutral B or down air spike?
Giving Stephen both Skewer and Falcon Punch is some pretty serious combo potential that probably still isn't that good but at least deserved a mention
I think the best choice for the worst character is juste to take dk, only keep his size, then past olimar on it and make his neutral B falcon punch and his up b litte mac.
You have now a character with useless:
-up air
-down air
-forward air
-back air
-smash attack
-side b
looks pretty trash to me.
(and yea olimar down B has armor on it so it dosnt count as useless you can land with it)
Can't wait to main this character
Hold up, ness forward throw is actually really good, while it never kills it's the best at getting people offstage at low percents and gets really nice cheese kills from town and city platforms. Something like Ivysaur would probably be better, but there are probably better examples
As a Mac main I totally understand the decision to give a fifth of mac's moveset to this character
And to be fair thats how he was designed so its perfectly valid to give Stephen 4 of his ariels, Mac needs those F tier ariels for ground moves that honestly stand toe to toe with some heavies tbh
Sonics Final Smash is objectively the worst, it deals like 20 at best and only ever gets value if you have a roof above your head. It never kills unless the character your fighting has no recovery and slow fall speed, and it doesn't let you recover either. It has literally no uses.
Kirby's stone is actually pretty OP if you think about it
It's probably one of the safest finishing move for characters that have a slow/bad recovery or just plainly using it when a character wants to grab the ledge (which everyone tries to do)
Sometimes you can get cheeky kills with it or use it as a tool to grab a ledge as fast as you can
Jiggly puff up b has no recovery potential whatsoever though??? And it can’t even kill. Yes you could land falcon punch after but that’s not worth the recovery slot and out of shield option both being gone
I'd love to see an intense battle between George and Stephen one day
Definitely should've used puff final smash, the only thing it does is make people go away until it ends, plus you could probably combo something into rosa final smash, puff's final smash is just bad all around
Thank you for the info. You can really learn a lot thinking about creative ideas like this.
You can tell Nick doesn't watch Mockrock. lol
6:05 Wait, Ivysaur has a Down Tilt??????
Who could have known
Every character has one my guy
Fun Fact, Ganon is not the worst character in the game, but Little Mac. This is because of the Melee Ariels, and DORYAH!!!
now we need to see this charicter in action
Can’t believe Nick completely forgot about solo popo up B and olimar neutral and down special
i genuinely want to see best character vs the worst character seeing if Stephen can even take a stock from George
I could’ve made this character worse for sure: olimar neutral B, olimar down b, yoshi side b and jigglypuff up b. The rest of the moves don’t even matter
Imagine that Steven has a lot of combo potential once put to the test.
I think falcon punch is way to good for Stephen u forgot that mii brawler has a worst version of that move in every way, perfectly suited for stenphan.
replace neutral b with pikmin pluck but do not let any other moves use pikmin
then replace up b with jiggly puff
replace up tilt with pac man bc it doesnt hit ground opponents
im Stephen MAIN, MARIO5G IS APPROACHING TO ONIN!! LET'S SEE IF HIS STEVE IS BETTER THAN MY POWERFUL *S T E P H E N* ! ! !
I am REALLY surprised you diddin't pick sing for the up B, it dosent kill and it kills you if used ofstage
Go to a major and do random money matches against people. But make a mod that forces player one’s random into george while player two’s random is forced onto steven. Major bag alert.
Bayonettas forward tilt can combo at low percents, which would be really good for some characters. Robins does nothing
Hey Nick, wouldn't it be hilarious, if Steven would have the Jiggs-Mechanic, were he would literally just die, if his shield gets destroyed?
Mechakoopa is one of my favourite moves in the game, casual players do NOT know how to deal with that!
I thought we were going to see him in action
I love the detail of how he says daisy instead of peach because he likes daisy more. I can respect that because I like Daisy more than peach. just want to point that out
isabelle's jab has to be the worst in the game. I don't think it connests, it has terrible damage, and its very laggy for a jab
I’d say icies dair over Ridley dair, atleast Ridley’s is quick descent and kills stupid early, while ice climbers dair is kinda trash
Is it possible to give Stephen the Solo Ice Climber UpB? It has no hit box and barely goes anywhere.
For up Special i think it could of definitely gone to Mii gunner's Canon jump kick or Jigglypuff Sing
Should've given them all of Robin's smash attacks, without Levin sword
You called Stephen Steven… STEVE IS THE BEST CHARACTER
Sheik’s down taunt is bm man
Some changes I would make:
neutral b: ivysaur Dair: sonic Up b: ice climber F tilt: robin Up tilt: pac man Down throw: ridley
So how is it?
Maybe squirtle down throw actually
But for neutral special olimar neutral b is the worst because it just makes your recovery worse
"despite my smile im internally screaming" same nick's editor, same.
Samus jab is actually really good!!! It doesn't connect but the jab 1 has amazing range and leaves you plus on hit, it's actually a pretty good move
No its garbage but better than warios
@hippity hoppity your soul is the 9’s property if you watch samus players they use jab 1 for pressure a lot because it has very low endlag, it's a great poke
It's not like the best jab in the game or anything but it's not bad
If Mac's coach could coach and cheer on Stephen, which I assume he can since he has a Mac taunt (and the coach sometimes cheers during gbe taunt), then I say Stephen still has a chance💪
How is Sing not the up-b, it would make it impossible to recover
I think you should've put yoshi up b for Stephen so he goes up 1 cm in the air
Uh, Bayonetta up b? That's useless without the rest of Bayonetta's moveset
What if he chose Olimar Specials. I don't know what they are, but one plucks pikmin, side b throws Pikmin and one calls Pikmin. He can have the first one or the last 2.
He will either have Pikmin and not be able to attack with them or be able to attack using Pikmin but not have any Pikmin to attack with, unless he gets some at the start of every stock (they die quickly anyways).
I think one of these might replace falcon punch, again I don't know what they are I don't use Olimar.
Give him only olimar neutral b, and down b so he can only rally the pikmin lol
honestly ness fthrow has a ton of base knockback.
it is reliable in some stages.
“And today I will kill with every one of Steven’s moves”