Mags were all loaded to 31... whoops. The steel mag is a C-products. Here's a video I did on my poor gear --- ruclips.net/video/GEc2iQ1wjRE/видео.htmlsi=sjdFYVKLh9g0Xulb
Way ahead of ya, im 70 years old. I had 40+ various m16 magazines loaded up with 30 rounds and stowed away since 1983. That's 38 years loaded. 2 years ago the debate came up again so we decided to test them all thru 2 ar15s and a US marine Corp M16. To shorten this story, they all worked perfectly, mags, ammo, rifles. So I've never give the issue a second thought. Yes it was a blast
About a year ago, a couple of guys kicked in my front door at 9 pm. My wife and kids were gearing up for bed. I didn't have any magazines loaded up, so I kindly asked the intruders to give me about 90 seconds to locate a box of ammo and load one up. They were nice enough to wait by the door, but the first guy was a real stickler on the 90 seconds. Needless to say, I was able to come out of my room guns hot - ready. I haven't seen my wife and kids since then, but man were they nice.
This backs up what I had seen from at least one other guy that did a five-year full mag storage test...he had ZERO issues with multiple mags as well. I cycle my mags every year - and because of you and that one other guy - I have all the confidence in the world they will function 100%...thanks very much for taking the time to share this valuable information !!
Mags can be stored loaded or unloaded, it doesn't matter. There is no undue wear on the spring. A spring wears out when it is exercised or expanded and contracted such as loading then unloading a magazine or loading then mag dumping. This only happens over time however (barring a defective spring). The only potential issue with loading a mag and storing it that way is ammo issues but that depends on how and where the mag is stored and the general environment of the area. In a bandolier inside your home where the home is A/Cd and thus temperature and moisture controlled, fine. In a garage? Probably not. I personally keep mine loaded and then stored in an ammo can with a good rubber o-ring seal then toss in a couple of those silicate moisture absorption packs for good measure.
Thats kinda what I always thought. Springs wear from being used, compressed and released. Not sitting, compressed or not. Using mags may fatigue the spring. Not leaving it compressed
@@rediron44 Not true at all and this is the biggest myth in the firearm community. Many "gun guys" can't even change their own oil or a flat tire. They have no mechanical aptitude whatsoever. If they did they would know "classic cars" left setting for long periods of time almost always need new shocks and leaf/coil springs before they are road worthy again. Many "gun guys" aren't knife guys also. If so they would know you can't store switchblades with the blade closed for years and years. You pull out a 1950s/60s Italian Stiletto out of a gun cabinet left setting closed and it lost all of it's oomph and won't fire hard enough to lock the blade open. Many "gun guys" aren't archery or bow guys as well. If so they would know you can't leave a bow or crossbow stored for years without having to have to go all back through it to replace the string at bare minimum and check for cracked limbs before you shoot it again. Know your facts and stop spreading opinions and misinformation.
@@JohnDoeEagle1 You do know that most of what you said is either half truths or total BS, right? Automatic knives don't lose their tension strength through sitting unattended, it's through excessive cycling, never mind the fact that OTF knives aren't even under spring tension when closed. Modern compound bows can absolutely be stored strung indefinitely, provided you're not storing the bow resting on it's limbs. Only wood bows and classic or recurve bows should be stored with the string removed to prevent deformation of the limbs. As far as bad struts on sitting cars, well that's not so much an issue with the strut spring but rather the dampener itself which is pneumatic and rotting seals may result in gas leakage thus reducing the efficacy of the strut subassembly. Ad yes, I do have reasonable mechanical aptitude as I perform all of my own maintenance on my own cars and guns. I also keep a respectable collection of automatic knives, some of which I've had for about 30 years with scant use and no discernible change in performance. Also get this, I'm also an archer, believe it or not, and I know for a fact that modern compound bows do not need their strings removed prior to long term storage. I only wax the strings on my rarely used bows a couple of times per year, more often for my more commonly used bows. As far as limbs cracking, that's just not going to happen in storage unless you're dropping the bow on its limbs, which I would never recommend, or storing immense weight on the the bow's limbs, also not recommended.
"Compressed too much". So, tell us, is that what's happening when a 30-round magazine is holding 30 rounds? Please state your sources in your reply. @@newerest1
It's frustrating to see this needs discussing over and over, but I appreciate that some folks have the patience to do so. Then there's those who will argue the results, even when actual experts on the matter have spoken on the topic.
@@joeydehart3429 this question is very common so it’s usually answered by instructors -> engineering principles -> industry manufacturers. On paper, a spring won’t degrade if left compressed within its design parameters. Springs degrade from repeated cycling. They also degrade from exceeding their load parameters. _(Look up on wiki: Stress Relaxation - is a response to strain, strain is relative deformation from a reference position or configuration. Elastic deformations cease to exist after the stress field is removed. Plastic deformations are permanent and occur once attaining the elastic limit. Creep - This is long term, high stress, below the yield strength, which causes slow deformation)_ A properly designed spring _shouldn‘t_ have issues.
@@joeydehart3429Travis Pike for one, wrote an article on it. Long story short, this is the part that is relevant. “Magazine springs won’t wear much from being left compressed. The truth is that compression and expansion cycles wear springs out, like the repeated filling then emptying of a magazine. “ So if you keep some loaded ones in your go bag and use some others all the time , but keep them unloaded when not in use, the go bag mags will be more reliable as they aren’t always being used…
@@-John-Doe- Anybody that has a classic car or a old switchblade knows none of this is true. I'd like to see you take that "barn find" all original survivor out on a drive without having suspension springs and shocks looked at and replaced. Also none of these turkeys are knife guys either from their replies. Have you ever pulled out a old 1950/60s Italian Stiletto switchblade that was left and stored closed for many years? It lost all it's oomph and doesn't have enough kick to even fire and lock the blade anymore. People should stop repeating what they heard and read then get some real world experience offline.
I got 5 fully loaded AR mags from 2016 and was never worried about them getting worn out from the spring compression... Good to know. Plus 2016 is 7 years ago? Wow lol.
thanks for this educational video. i'm a livestock herder. usually gotta keep on my toes for the coyotes. i'm always scared of long term storage of my ar15 mags with full loads. now i can be at peace with these livestock. God bless you !
I always keep four magazines fully loaded in my AR case. You never know what might pop up in a second. I do the exact same thing with my 1911s, never had a problem with any of them. As long as the magazines are good, you are good to go. Most of the problems I've had with guns jamming. Have almost always been from bad magazines.
The only time I've had problems with magazine springs wearing out was with shooting high volumes. It was with my STI Edge in .40 S&W and 20 round magazines. At around 50,000 rounds between the 4 mags I started having failures to feed because the springs were getting weak. That averages to 12,500 rounds per mag. Many shooters in the USPSA class in which I shoot number their magazines but mine aren't numbered so they probably got fairly close to equal use. When the problem developed I was at a big match and a vendor was there selling Arredondo springs so a quick change of springs restored the function 100%, I've kept other mags loaded for extended periods, without shooting with them and have not observed any noticeable deterioration of the springs.
I admit I never bothered with the science of it, but I always leave my mags loaded (different brands, different calibers, different materials). If things go south, I want to be prepared. Never had a problem.
I am actually really glad to see this, I have 6 standard steel mags that have been sitting in the safe with M855 in them for around 5 years at this point and was worried that if the time came they would be worthless. I'll probably burn through them anyways soon since this video made me think about them. Wouldn't hurt to get new rounds in there.
It’s spring cycle that wears them out… not keeping them loaded. I’ve seen 45 pistol mags loaded from WWII era still work perfectly. They were loaded for over 60 years!
Like these vids where a guy mag dumps several mags...and the trigger finger vets slower and slower. Makes my arthritic fingers seem less a problem. Remember reading a story where they found some military mags that had been loaded since Korea, if I remember correctly. They all worked fine. They say it's a "spring" thing. Keeping it compressed is no problem. The constant cycling of the spring is what causes mag problems.
@@intruder217ESmith and even then, a properly designed spring will never reasonably get to a point where it no longer works as intended. I’m talking like cycles in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions. It’s also really easy to see with brand new mags. The springs are really stiff initially, but after the first few cycles you can easily see the spring is lighter. Eventually it gets to a point where there’s no noticeable difference. The springs are designed to still function beyond that point, so they’ll essentially work forever. I’d expect a failure, if any, to be the spring breaking from cycling and storage in less than desirable conditions.
@@scooter2161 The springs in my STI 2011 mags got too weak to function as expected at about 12,500 rounds each. They're probably lighter springs than for most production mags, though, since they're intended to allow 20 rounds to fit into a magazine that has a maximum allowable length per competition rules.
There's still a spring in the magazine, though. In the Garand it's a fairly robust spring but if shot a lot the spring can weaken. If that sounds confusing to someone, the clip is inserted into the fixed magazine in the action of the Garand and in doing so, the magazine spring is compressed.
There was 1911 Mags and M1 carbine mags and BAR mags fully loaded for many years after WWII and still worked in Vet Nam, it is not the staying loaded that wears the spring out it is the use of the spring
Yeah, I love how people think springs lose strength when stored under tension. Springs fatigue from compression and decompression cycles, aka loading and unloading. Just being statically compressed does nothing to fatigue them. Now yes, over compressing or over decompressing (read stretching further then intended) can indeed damage them. Don’t buy cheap garbage and you won’t have a problem with the former, I don’t know how you would have a problem with the latter but some people are just built different.
I was taught that the only time long term storage could possibly be an issue was if it was a worn out/shit quality magazine that you shouldn’t even be using in the first place.
I was afraid of that. Since this is my first AR and it came with a polymer magazine. I was afraid of the lips deforming. But since this proved nothing happened, might just keep some mags loaded
I have personally done this test myself. Never have I had a problem. No matter how much you go over this issue, there will always be those that will say it destroys the mags.
@@ashsteele7361 at least he knows how springs work. if static compression wore them out, we would have to replace the springs in our car's suspension every year. those are also exposed to much more dynamic compression, still not a problem. so what is it, muh feed lips?
This is the biggest myth in the firearm community. Many "gun guys" can't even change their own oil or a flat tire. They have no mechanical aptitude whatsoever. If they did they would know "classic cars" left setting for long periods of time almost always need new shocks and leaf/coil springs before they are road worthy again. Many "gun guys" aren't knife guys also. If so they would know you can't store switchblades with the blade closed for years and years. You pull out a 1950s/60s Italian Stiletto out of a gun cabinet left setting closed and it lost all of it's oomph and won't fire hard enough to lock the blade open. Many "gun guys" aren't archery or bow guys as well. If so they would know you can't leave a bow or crossbow stored for years without having to have to go all back through it to replace the string at bare minimum and check for cracked limbs before you shoot it again.
The best thing about this video is now I know that in a gunfight with a would be criminal, I won't need to ask him to let me load my magazine first. Of course I have been told keeping them loaded weekens the spring, but in my opinion it only makes sense to keep them ready. Thanks!
I've had a baby browning pistol mag loaded since 1974. I've fired it maybe six times at the range when I got it. I've had 1911 mags loaded for many, many years, as well as other mags without any problems. Old wife's tales die hard.
My husband trained me and told me the same thing the mags will be okay loaded for long periods of time. My husband is a veteran and the magazines he was most comfortable with was the Galil 5.56 magazines which we have a lot of in our house. My husband trained me on both the Ar-15 platform (my favorite) and his Galil which he keeps calling the Vector R4. My husband is ex-SADF and now a level 3 security officer trainer in the Southwest USA. before my husband i only touched an airsoft rifle and that’s because i’m originally from Japan.
Your husband is a man among men. He's making sure that if he isn't able to be around, that you will be able to. Ftr, the South Africans called their 5.56 Galils by this nomenclature. They were Galils that were licensed and manufactured in South Africa. Those guys are tough s.o.b's.
What are you talking about? All the top Not-Sees were put in high level government throughout Europe Russia & US, also science, Intel and on and on. Now they’re becoming active again in Ukraine and globally. It’s heating up son.
Hi Chrismcrae4652, We should compare notes it would be interesting for sure! I am also 70 and I got my first FFL in 1976 and started a business. I had so many storage boxes through the years and after several moves lost track of some stuff, I know stupid of me The point I want to make is you are right and I just wanted to chime in and say the mags I found about 3 years ago in old storage. Thoes were M16-30 rd mags with NATO 5.56 there was about 5 mags that I found I also had some mags for my combat commander that had Fedral 185gr hollow points +P I went to the range and EVERYTHING FIRED AS NEW, NOT ONE MISFIRE! I am happy that Jhonny here is continuing on for the up coming shooters to share this info, it just means you and I are getting old lol We need to support our great country, thany you Jhonny for this video
I work with springs and coils in my day-to-day. You don't lose quality just cause its under its (tolerated) load for a long period of time. The issue is when in compresses and decompresses over and over and over and over...etc. This should really be a no brainer in todays discussions as the science for this has been out for a long time....
I heard debate on this a few years back if you should or should not store the mags loaded. Information was found where springs were studied to see if they lost strength under sustained load. They found that springs do not lose their strength left in compression.
Yeah, it was found that springs do not wear out from a static state. They wear out from repeated compression and decompression. The example I remember was a car's shock springs. They are under constant compression, but a vehicle sitting forever will not wear them out. Driving/bouncing will wear them out overtime.
This good to know. I have several P-mags and a couple metals loaded up in the safe for about the same length of time. I’ve never given it a second thought.
Good test🤘 I have had 65 steel mags and 25 poly mags loaded for over a year and only a few of the poly mags had issues with the feed lips expanding which allowed the rounds to pop out. So I am possibly going all steel mags. ~Drop it like it's Scott
In my younger years a bought some aluminum mags that apparently had bad roller designs or something, or perhaps it was the metal being too thin. Anyway they were sh*t straight out of the factory bag. Disappointed I bought the heftier steel mags, never had an issue for decades and swore by them... until I bought a new rifle 3 years ago with a pmag. I thought the pmag was going to be terrible, it was so unbelievably light in my hand, I took it to the range and put 300 rounds through it in the middle of the Texas summer, no problems. Firarms Technology has come a long way.
I had a friend wear out a gen2 pmag after 10 years, it came with his ruger 556. I don't know how many rounds he put through it but I'd wager less than 1000. The issue definitely wasn't the rifle, i had just cleaned, lubed and swapped buffer spring to a new one and the rifle would have bullet-over-bolt malfunctions. He got a gen3 pmag 40rd the next week and hasn't had an issue since. The magazine could also have been dirty, the rifle was used extensively on a ranch exposed to the elements year round and nothing was ever serviced until I looked at it
Never had a doubt, and that PMAG was a gen 2. I don’t store my gen 3 mags with the dust cover. Im sure they are also just fine stacked to capacity. Thanks for confirming what most of us know while we try to avoid letting the myths get in our head
No problem, brother. I was having my own doubts those seven years ago, so I packed them away. The original plan was ten years, so I left three loaded for when the time comes.
Its cool to see someone test this stuff IRL even if it is just anecdotal evidence. Most of the comments here are about the springs losing tension but I've always heard the problem is with the constant pressure from the ammo/springs forcing apart the feed lips which causes it to fail.
I purchased a few cheaper polymer mags and stored them for a few months. They were amend2 and MFT brand. After a relatively short period of time, I could see the feed lips bulging out, and if I gave them a tap, rounds would pop out. Quality metal mags are probably the best go for storage.The way I test the polymer mags is to fist-grip it and squeeze. Any significant flex means garbage.
The dust cover does keep the pressure off of the feed lips - the cover presses the bullets further down by roughly 1/32 of an inch. Whether that keeps the feed lips from expanding, I dunno, but other tests measuring with calipers have shown expansion. You can definitely feel/hear the bullets shift down when you put the dust cover on.
@@smaccattack9228whatever the design reason, it most definitely pushes the rounds down and that keeps pressure off the feed lips. I don’t store P mags without them, it certainly doesn’t hurt to do so.
I wish you would have loaded them back up immediately to see if the spring compression had any effect on follow up use after storage. Great experiment nonetheless!
I thought about that afterward, and the next day to satisfy my own curiosity, I did test that. I pushed the followers down with my fingers a few times, loaded each mag with 10 rounds, and shot them. Loaded the pmag to max and dumped it. No malfunctions. I trust these mags enough to use them.
Ive heard the military has done tests shooting close to a million rounds through a single pmag and it still works even with all of the spring compression and relaxation. All I buy is gen 3 pmags now.
I've got various calibers of ammo that I have bought through the years since 1980. If there are any Collectors out there looking for any particular Boxes that 12 gauge shotgun shells came in since the 80's, I've probably got it. Keep your powder dry and be safe my friends.
Didn't see anyone comment on the other myth of only loading to 28. Your rifle was designed to feed from a full magazine. If it can't, you have issues other than magazine capacity.
A spring will only lose tension from repeated cyclical movements. In other words repeated use will wear the metallurgical properties and metallic structure down. Sitting static under tension or at rest make no difference to the spring steel. Chinese made spring steel may not hold up as the steel may be inferior. Impurities in the steel or less robust springs could be affected. So if your an internet bargain shopper you may have a bunch of junk that won’t hold up. I’ve always said that cheap shit costs more money because you will replace it again.
Spent 20 years in the military, we found loaded mags from over 15 years that worked just fine, even put them back in the lines at cad, no issues. Keep you mags loaded and stop worrying fellas.
I've had GI mags loaded with 20 rounds for about 15 years. Every trip out to the range (including this week), I take some with me and haze had zero issues with the mag and the ammo. They are stored in the attached garage without climate control. I do have a dehumidifier.
Magpul has stated that those covers are dust cover, they were not made to keep the feed lips from warping, and leaving them off of a loaded, stashed magazine for an extended time was 100% okay. I have seen zero cases of their magazine feed lips getting warped during storage because someone didn’t use the cover. But people will believe what they want to believe. I’ve had loaded mags work fine after 4 years, pistol and AR, not a super long time but still enough to prove a point. I was never worried about my mags being loaded for a long time. Shotgun mag springs going bad is shutter, untrue, myth. have a Mossberg 500 12gauge 8 shot that I keep loaded for HD that I’ve had since 2016 (now 2023, still keep it loaded). I take it to the range several times each year so it hasn’t been sitting since then but it runs great and I’ve never had to replace the mag tube spring, at one point I didn’t take it to the range for a full year. I believe the idea that the magazine springs wear out over time when the mag is loaded was introduced by keyboard Internet professionals (also know as trolls) some time ago. Since there weren’t videos disproving at the time people had to load mags and wait. No there is proof that magazine spring can last a very long time. If your magazine spring are failing, something is wrong with them.
My idea is, unless you keep the mags in somewhere damp or in direct sunlight or extreme heat, the spring won't have a reason to give out. The only side effect would be a very small loss of push generated over that many years compressed. Still enough to push 30 rounds EZ though
They are. The only thing I don't like is that if the sliding part is not fully seated, it can cause feeding issues. Makes it easier to load them, though.
My dad had stacks and stacks of ammunition over 10,000 before the house fire.... Fireman wouldn't even get near the house with all the bullets going off
AR mags work well. The problem with ARs is not the magazine - it's that they stop working well (or at all) after about 6-7 mags, particularly in any austere environment. That forward-assist wasn't added because it looks cool. An M16 becomes a gummed-up mess and a single shot because of the basic flaws inherent in Eugene Stoner's direct gas-impingement design with the stupid gas tube, piston rings on the bolt, a Slinky-Spring bolt carrier & buffer tube arrangement...JUST ADD SAND, SNOW or MUD!
I've got a pump shotgun that has been loaded since 1994 when I bought it. The only times it's been unloaded is when I've shot it or cleaned it. It still works fine.
My dude, they have legit dug up caves worth of AK mags in Afghan and the worked fine. Things were probably 50 years old. What hurts springs is cycles, not constant pressure. Keep your mags loaded, gents'.
I left 5 FAL mags and 6 CZ 75 Italian made magazines loaded in my gun safe for 10 years ,the FAL magazines worked perfectly but 4 of the 6 Cz mags failed due to the springs loosing tension..kinda a bummer ..
I keep loaded 10 years then toss springs and replace using Wolff springs that dude is a rock star!!!!!!! Make sure you tell him if your military or LE he is very 1st responder friendly
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Mags were all loaded to 31... whoops.
The steel mag is a C-products.
Here's a video I did on my poor gear --- ruclips.net/video/GEc2iQ1wjRE/видео.htmlsi=sjdFYVKLh9g0Xulb
Point proven even more so.
I just wanted to smart ass as I always count shots... ;)
Daym!
Thanks for the info and science sir wink wink ,the argument is now solved thanks to you sir !
@@bloodyblade916 No problemo
Good video man . Not something you see every day.
Way ahead of ya, im 70 years old. I had 40+ various m16 magazines loaded up with 30 rounds and stowed away since 1983. That's 38 years loaded. 2 years ago the debate came up again so we decided to test them all thru 2 ar15s and a US marine Corp M16. To shorten this story, they all worked perfectly, mags, ammo, rifles. So I've never give the issue a second thought. Yes it was a blast
That would be the end all be all of videos if it were filmed man. Good to know.
You are the real mvp sir
Wish you had filmed it man you could a been the king of RUclips magazine debates
Nice good to read this
Invaluable feedback. Much appreciated.
Whats most concerning is hearing that 2016 was 7 years ago 😂 time flies
Sure does
My thoughts exactly
No kidding:( times gone:(
so are we better or worse now? Asking seriously. What is THE problem? anyone?
Same in my mind when he said 7 years i was like “oh around 2011”
About a year ago, a couple of guys kicked in my front door at 9 pm. My wife and kids were gearing up for bed. I didn't have any magazines loaded up, so I kindly asked the intruders to give me about 90 seconds to locate a box of ammo and load one up. They were nice enough to wait by the door, but the first guy was a real stickler on the 90 seconds. Needless to say, I was able to come out of my room guns hot - ready. I haven't seen my wife and kids since then, but man were they nice.
😂😂😂😂 and joey won
This backs up what I had seen from at least one other guy that did a five-year full mag storage test...he had ZERO issues with multiple mags as well. I cycle my mags every year - and because of you and that one other guy - I have all the confidence in the world they will function 100%...thanks very much for taking the time to share this valuable information !!
Mags can be stored loaded or unloaded, it doesn't matter. There is no undue wear on the spring. A spring wears out when it is exercised or expanded and contracted such as loading then unloading a magazine or loading then mag dumping. This only happens over time however (barring a defective spring). The only potential issue with loading a mag and storing it that way is ammo issues but that depends on how and where the mag is stored and the general environment of the area. In a bandolier inside your home where the home is A/Cd and thus temperature and moisture controlled, fine. In a garage? Probably not. I personally keep mine loaded and then stored in an ammo can with a good rubber o-ring seal then toss in a couple of those silicate moisture absorption packs for good measure.
Thats kinda what I always thought. Springs wear from being used, compressed and released. Not sitting, compressed or not. Using mags may fatigue the spring. Not leaving it compressed
@@rediron44
Not true at all and this is the biggest myth in the firearm community. Many "gun guys" can't even change their own oil or a flat tire. They have no mechanical aptitude whatsoever. If they did they would know "classic cars" left setting for long periods of time almost always need new shocks and leaf/coil springs before they are road worthy again. Many "gun guys" aren't knife guys also. If so they would know you can't store switchblades with the blade closed for years and years. You pull out a 1950s/60s Italian Stiletto out of a gun cabinet left setting closed and it lost all of it's oomph and won't fire hard enough to lock the blade open. Many "gun guys" aren't archery or bow guys as well. If so they would know you can't leave a bow or crossbow stored for years without having to have to go all back through it to replace the string at bare minimum and check for cracked limbs before you shoot it again.
Know your facts and stop spreading opinions and misinformation.
@@JohnDoeEagle1 You do know that most of what you said is either half truths or total BS, right?
Automatic knives don't lose their tension strength through sitting unattended, it's through excessive cycling, never mind the fact that OTF knives aren't even under spring tension when closed. Modern compound bows can absolutely be stored strung indefinitely, provided you're not storing the bow resting on it's limbs. Only wood bows and classic or recurve bows should be stored with the string removed to prevent deformation of the limbs. As far as bad struts on sitting cars, well that's not so much an issue with the strut spring but rather the dampener itself which is pneumatic and rotting seals may result in gas leakage thus reducing the efficacy of the strut subassembly.
Ad yes, I do have reasonable mechanical aptitude as I perform all of my own maintenance on my own cars and guns. I also keep a respectable collection of automatic knives, some of which I've had for about 30 years with scant use and no discernible change in performance.
Also get this, I'm also an archer, believe it or not, and I know for a fact that modern compound bows do not need their strings removed prior to long term storage. I only wax the strings on my rarely used bows a couple of times per year, more often for my more commonly used bows. As far as limbs cracking, that's just not going to happen in storage unless you're dropping the bow on its limbs, which I would never recommend, or storing immense weight on the the bow's limbs, also not recommended.
@@JohnDoeEagle1more than full of sh1t
I have loaded and waiting, some I fired after over a decade and reloaded just fine.
Ive had 50+ pmags loaded to capacity for a couple years now. Its not compression, its cycles that affect these kinds of springs
Absolutely right
not true at all, a spring can easily be permantly be damaged from being compressed too much. it's called plastic deformation.
"Compressed too much". So, tell us, is that what's happening when a 30-round magazine is holding 30 rounds? Please state your sources in your reply. @@newerest1
@@TUKByV1 he’s full of it, and it has been proven multiple times
It's frustrating to see this needs discussing over and over, but I appreciate that some folks have the patience to do so. Then there's those who will argue the results, even when actual experts on the matter have spoken on the topic.
What experts, I have not seen any expert data on this? Please do not take my question as factious I am genuinely curious.
@@joeydehart3429 this question is very common so it’s usually answered by instructors -> engineering principles -> industry manufacturers.
On paper, a spring won’t degrade if left compressed within its design parameters.
Springs degrade from repeated cycling.
They also degrade from exceeding their load parameters.
_(Look up on wiki:
Stress Relaxation - is a response to strain, strain is relative deformation from a reference position or configuration.
Elastic deformations cease to exist after the stress field is removed. Plastic deformations are permanent and occur once attaining the elastic limit.
Creep - This is long term, high stress, below the yield strength, which causes slow deformation)_
A properly designed spring _shouldn‘t_ have issues.
@@joeydehart3429Travis Pike for one, wrote an article on it. Long story short, this is the part that is relevant.
“Magazine springs won’t wear much from being left compressed. The truth is that compression and expansion cycles wear springs out, like the repeated filling then emptying of a magazine. “
So if you keep some loaded ones in your go bag and use some others all the time , but keep them unloaded when not in use, the go bag mags will be more reliable as they aren’t always being used…
I keep mine ready.
@@-John-Doe-
Anybody that has a classic car or a old switchblade knows none of this is true. I'd like to see you take that "barn find" all original survivor out on a drive without having suspension springs and shocks looked at and replaced. Also none of these turkeys are knife guys either from their replies. Have you ever pulled out a old 1950/60s Italian Stiletto switchblade that was left and stored closed for many years? It lost all it's oomph and doesn't have enough kick to even fire and lock the blade anymore. People should stop repeating what they heard and read then get some real world experience offline.
I got 5 fully loaded AR mags from 2016 and was never worried about them getting worn out from the spring compression... Good to know. Plus 2016 is 7 years ago? Wow lol.
thanks for this educational video. i'm a livestock herder. usually gotta keep on my toes for the coyotes. i'm always scared of long term storage of my ar15 mags with full loads. now i can be at peace with these livestock. God bless you !
God bless
As a former military trainer, I say badass man! I didn't have the foresight to think about this but I'm happy as hell you did. Thank you, sir!
You're welcome, my friend.
@@johnnybobtrucker4416 WHAT MUZZEL BREAK IS THAT
@@JohnDoe-sx2zkMidwest Industries flash hider/"impact device". $40ish.
Dude I appreciate the info. For years I've listened to the Fan-boys argue over this & I'm happy you set it straight. Thanks🤠
Thank you Sir, for proving what I've been saying for years....keep them LOADED
Welcome my friend
I always keep four magazines fully loaded in my AR case. You never know what might pop up in a second. I do the exact same thing with my 1911s, never had a problem with any of them. As long as the magazines are good, you are good to go. Most of the problems I've had with guns jamming. Have almost always been from bad magazines.
The only time I've had problems with magazine springs wearing out was with shooting high volumes. It was with my STI Edge in .40 S&W and 20 round magazines. At around 50,000 rounds between the 4 mags I started having failures to feed because the springs were getting weak. That averages to 12,500 rounds per mag. Many shooters in the USPSA class in which I shoot number their magazines but mine aren't numbered so they probably got fairly close to equal use. When the problem developed I was at a big match and a vendor was there selling Arredondo springs so a quick change of springs restored the function 100%, I've kept other mags loaded for extended periods, without shooting with them and have not observed any noticeable deterioration of the springs.
I admit I never bothered with the science of it, but I always leave my mags loaded (different brands, different calibers, different materials). If things go south, I want to be prepared. Never had a problem.
No use in picking up an empty mag when you need one.
I am actually really glad to see this, I have 6 standard steel mags that have been sitting in the safe with M855 in them for around 5 years at this point and was worried that if the time came they would be worthless. I'll probably burn through them anyways soon since this video made me think about them. Wouldn't hurt to get new rounds in there.
It’s spring cycle that wears them out… not keeping them loaded. I’ve seen 45 pistol mags loaded from WWII era still work perfectly. They were loaded for over 60 years!
That’s awesome!
Yep, and even that takes a long time. Think about how many times your buffer spring has cycled without issue.
i feel that barrels pain from the green tip mag dumps lol
Like these vids where a guy mag dumps several mags...and the trigger finger vets slower and slower. Makes my arthritic fingers seem less a problem. Remember reading a story where they found some military mags that had been loaded since Korea, if I remember correctly. They all worked fine. They say it's a "spring" thing. Keeping it compressed is no problem. The constant cycling of the spring is what causes mag problems.
Springs don't wear out being compressed one time. They wear out being compressed over and over and over.
Yep. Spring steel wears from multiple compression and expansion. 👍🏼
@@intruder217ESmith and even then, a properly designed spring will never reasonably get to a point where it no longer works as intended. I’m talking like cycles in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions.
It’s also really easy to see with brand new mags. The springs are really stiff initially, but after the first few cycles you can easily see the spring is lighter. Eventually it gets to a point where there’s no noticeable difference. The springs are designed to still function beyond that point, so they’ll essentially work forever. I’d expect a failure, if any, to be the spring breaking from cycling and storage in less than desirable conditions.
@@scooter2161 The springs in my STI 2011 mags got too weak to function as expected at about 12,500 rounds each. They're probably lighter springs than for most production mags, though, since they're intended to allow 20 rounds to fit into a magazine that has a maximum allowable length per competition rules.
@@David-hm9ic ah interesting. Makes sense though.
Thanks for the reassurance, unloaded my mags thinking the springs would wear out. Time to reload em!
I've kept mine loaded and have been for a while. I wondered about this. Glad I ran across this video and read some of the comments. Thanks
Thanks brother, did my research 9 years ago. Came to the same conclusion
And no magazine or spring damage. Thanks again!
You bet
Thanks. I needed to know that. I noticed in the comments a fella did the same thing with mags stored for over 30 years.
Same here. Loaded 3 40rd AK Chinese mags in 1994 and ran all three through my AK last year. All without a hitch. 29 years loaded.
One thing about the old M1 Garand clips is there spring steel and you never even have to think twice about them not working or a spring collapsing.
There's still a spring in the magazine, though. In the Garand it's a fairly robust spring but if shot a lot the spring can weaken. If that sounds confusing to someone, the clip is inserted into the fixed magazine in the action of the Garand and in doing so, the magazine spring is compressed.
Magpul claims the PMag cover is just a dust cover but it does indeed also take the pressure off the feed lips as it pushes the top round down.
Seems like it does, probably better off keeping pmags stored with it on.
Or buy Lancers, never have to worry about warped feed lips.
@@TedJ71 Lancers are my go to mag of choice
There was 1911 Mags and M1 carbine mags and BAR mags fully loaded for many years after WWII and still worked in Vet Nam, it is not the staying loaded that wears the spring out it is the use of the spring
Yeah, I love how people think springs lose strength when stored under tension. Springs fatigue from compression and decompression cycles, aka loading and unloading. Just being statically compressed does nothing to fatigue them. Now yes, over compressing or over decompressing (read stretching further then intended) can indeed damage them. Don’t buy cheap garbage and you won’t have a problem with the former, I don’t know how you would have a problem with the latter but some people are just built different.
I like this is how I keep em. God knows if you need it but have to load first game over
I was taught that the only time long term storage could possibly be an issue was if it was a worn out/shit quality magazine that you shouldn’t even be using in the first place.
Makes sense to me
I was afraid of that. Since this is my first AR and it came with a polymer magazine. I was afraid of the lips deforming. But since this proved nothing happened, might just keep some mags loaded
I have personally done this test myself. Never have I had a problem. No matter how much you go over this issue, there will always be those that will say it destroys the mags.
I doubt it will but it is not worth the risk.
Found the guy who furthers the dumb.
@@ashsteele7361 at least he knows how springs work. if static compression wore them out, we would have to replace the springs in our car's suspension every year. those are also exposed to much more dynamic compression, still not a problem.
so what is it, muh feed lips?
I've heard of cheaper plastic mags splitting at the seams, but never an issue with the springs.
This is the biggest myth in the firearm community. Many "gun guys" can't even change their own oil or a flat tire. They have no mechanical aptitude whatsoever. If they did they would know "classic cars" left setting for long periods of time almost always need new shocks and leaf/coil springs before they are road worthy again. Many "gun guys" aren't knife guys also. If so they would know you can't store switchblades with the blade closed for years and years. You pull out a 1950s/60s Italian Stiletto out of a gun cabinet left setting closed and it lost all of it's oomph and won't fire hard enough to lock the blade open. Many "gun guys" aren't archery or bow guys as well. If so they would know you can't leave a bow or crossbow stored for years without having to have to go all back through it to replace the string at bare minimum and check for cracked limbs before you shoot it again.
A spring doesn't wear out over time a spring wears out the more it is used/compressed. Depending on the material of the spring but likely soft steel
I can respect and Appreciate your time and efforts to try this…great video…Thank you
dude, i got those commecca mags when i was in the infantry back in 2010-2013, we got those, i thought they'd never work! what a fool i was!
The best thing about this video is now I know that in a gunfight with a would be criminal, I won't need to ask him to let me load my magazine first. Of course I have been told keeping them loaded weekens the spring, but in my opinion it only makes sense to keep them ready. Thanks!
I've had a baby browning pistol mag loaded since 1974. I've fired it maybe six times at the range when I got it.
I've had 1911 mags loaded for many, many years, as well as other mags without any problems. Old wife's tales die hard.
You just earn another subscriber for exposing myths
Thank you much
I never fully load mine for fear of wearing the springs. Now I know, load those suckers full!
You got it brother
My husband trained me and told me the same thing the mags will be okay loaded for long periods of time. My husband is a veteran and the magazines he was most comfortable with was the Galil 5.56 magazines which we have a lot of in our house. My husband trained me on both the Ar-15 platform (my favorite) and his Galil which he keeps calling the Vector R4. My husband is ex-SADF
and now a level 3 security officer trainer in the Southwest USA. before my husband i only touched an airsoft rifle and that’s because i’m originally from Japan.
Your husband is a man among men. He's making sure that if he isn't able to be around, that you will be able to. Ftr, the South Africans called their 5.56 Galils by this nomenclature. They were Galils that were licensed and manufactured in South Africa. Those guys are tough s.o.b's.
I wish Germany and Japan would of won.
@@AdolphH-jv9wu History didn't fall that way.
@@YacolJ I see communist controlling my country like many others. Im quite aware.
What are you talking about? All the top Not-Sees were put in high level government throughout Europe Russia & US, also science, Intel and on and on. Now they’re becoming active again in Ukraine and globally. It’s heating up son.
Good thing you had all of your gear on for the big test.
Forgot my weener shield
Hi Chrismcrae4652, We should compare notes it would be interesting for sure!
I am also 70 and I got my first FFL in 1976 and started a business.
I had so many storage boxes through the years and after several moves lost track of some stuff, I know stupid of me
The point I want to make is you are right and I just wanted to chime in and say the mags I found about 3 years ago in old storage.
Thoes were M16-30 rd mags with NATO 5.56 there was about 5 mags that I found
I also had some mags for my combat commander that had Fedral 185gr hollow points +P
I went to the range and EVERYTHING FIRED AS NEW, NOT ONE MISFIRE!
I am happy that Jhonny here is continuing on for the up coming shooters to share this info, it just means you and I are getting old lol
We need to support our great country, thany you Jhonny for this video
Because science bro that’s when I subscribed 😂
I work with springs and coils in my day-to-day. You don't lose quality just cause its under its (tolerated) load for a long period of time. The issue is when in compresses and decompresses over and over and over and over...etc. This should really be a no brainer in todays discussions as the science for this has been out for a long time....
Thanks for sharing this experiment.
Thank you for sharing with us! Gives reassurance.
Nice to know there's no worries! And you disproved all the worries floating around about storage.
Thanks for sharing your science experiment with everyone!
You bet
I heard debate on this a few years back if you should or should not store the mags loaded. Information was found where springs were studied to see if they lost strength under sustained load. They found that springs do not lose their strength left in compression.
Yeah, it was found that springs do not wear out from a static state. They wear out from repeated compression and decompression. The example I remember was a car's shock springs. They are under constant compression, but a vehicle sitting forever will not wear them out. Driving/bouncing will wear them out overtime.
Same result, but with a different gun. M1911 GI magazines, loaded for 13 years in an ammo box and forgotten until 2 years ago.
This good to know. I have several P-mags and a couple metals loaded up in the safe for about the same length of time. I’ve never given it a second thought.
Excellent
Good test🤘 I have had 65 steel mags and 25 poly mags loaded for over a year and only a few of the poly mags had issues with the feed lips expanding which allowed the rounds to pop out. So I am possibly going all steel mags. ~Drop it like it's Scott
Good to know my friend. I'm thinking the same, metal mags are probably the best way to go.
In my younger years a bought some aluminum mags that apparently had bad roller designs or something, or perhaps it was the metal being too thin.
Anyway they were sh*t straight out of the factory bag.
Disappointed I bought the heftier steel mags, never had an issue for decades and swore by them... until I bought a new rifle 3 years ago with a pmag.
I thought the pmag was going to be terrible, it was so unbelievably light in my hand, I took it to the range and put 300 rounds through it in the middle of the Texas summer, no problems.
Firarms Technology has come a long way.
Been preaching this for decades anytime someone tells me…”ahh you shouldn’t keep you mags fully loaded” well I do and I have never had an issue.
I have gen 1, 2 and 3 pmags of both 7.62x39 and 556 mags that have been loaded for probably a decade. They function just fine still
I had a friend wear out a gen2 pmag after 10 years, it came with his ruger 556. I don't know how many rounds he put through it but I'd wager less than 1000.
The issue definitely wasn't the rifle, i had just cleaned, lubed and swapped buffer spring to a new one and the rifle would have bullet-over-bolt malfunctions. He got a gen3 pmag 40rd the next week and hasn't had an issue since. The magazine could also have been dirty, the rifle was used extensively on a ranch exposed to the elements year round and nothing was ever serviced until I looked at it
Those are the worst kind of malfunction. Gen 2s are the majority of what I have. Good to know.
Never had a doubt, and that PMAG was a gen 2. I don’t store my gen 3 mags with the dust cover. Im sure they are also just fine stacked to capacity. Thanks for confirming what most of us know while we try to avoid letting the myths get in our head
No problem, brother. I was having my own doubts those seven years ago, so I packed them away.
The original plan was ten years, so I left three loaded for when the time comes.
@@johnnybobtrucker4416 I’ll be waiting… I’m sure you’ll get the same result. The spring doesn’t care and the feed lips are fine 👍🏼
@@frostriver4547 I'm thinking the same
Couple years ago a german submachine gun and some fully loaded magazines from ww2 were fired w/o a problem.
Its cool to see someone test this stuff IRL even if it is just anecdotal evidence. Most of the comments here are about the springs losing tension but I've always heard the problem is with the constant pressure from the ammo/springs forcing apart the feed lips which causes it to fail.
I purchased a few cheaper polymer mags and stored them for a few months. They were amend2 and MFT brand. After a relatively short period of time, I could see the feed lips bulging out, and if I gave them a tap, rounds would pop out. Quality metal mags are probably the best go for storage.The way I test the polymer mags is to fist-grip it and squeeze. Any significant flex means garbage.
Its not the video we wanted, it was the video we needed. thank you sir.
Glad I could help
Fired a loaded mag a neighbor brought back from Vietnam in 1975 in 2012, 37 years loaded, worked just fine and got to keep the mag.
Good work Al! As good a test as any to prove magazines can stay loaded for extended time periods.
The dust cover does keep the pressure off of the feed lips - the cover presses the bullets further down by roughly 1/32 of an inch. Whether that keeps the feed lips from expanding, I dunno, but other tests measuring with calipers have shown expansion.
You can definitely feel/hear the bullets shift down when you put the dust cover on.
I've only ever had that experience with plastic mags. I can't remember the brand but I ditched them and only have aluminum mags because of it.
Magpul has specifically said this is not the case. They are literally a dust cover
@@smaccattack9228whatever the design reason, it most definitely pushes the rounds down and that keeps pressure off the feed lips. I don’t store P mags without them, it certainly doesn’t hurt to do so.
I think it pushes the ammunition down; not just the bullets.
I am nominating you for the Nobel Prize in gun science, you deserve it . I will get your nomination out right after I reload these 10 P mags .
I am honored
Thank you, very eye opening results.
I wish you would have loaded them back up immediately to see if the spring compression had any effect on follow up use after storage. Great experiment nonetheless!
I thought about that afterward, and the next day to satisfy my own curiosity, I did test that. I pushed the followers down with my fingers a few times, loaded each mag with 10 rounds, and shot them. Loaded the pmag to max and dumped it. No malfunctions.
I trust these mags enough to use them.
"spring compression" LMFAO Yeah man okay whatever
If the springs were bad, they would already be bad
Glad to see it! I don’t like loading at the range if I don’t have to either. Shoot straight!
-Isaac
Me too, I despise having to load mags at the range. I keep ALL mags loaded, ALL the time, both pistol and rifle.
I've never heard of... caminga?? That looks so cool
Suspect it depends upon purchasing good quality magazines. Thanks for showing us the results: smoking hot show!
Mag springs wear more when used I always thought
From what I understand it’s temperature that effects the spring, not pressure
Ive heard the military has done tests shooting close to a million rounds through a single pmag and it still works even with all of the spring compression and relaxation. All I buy is gen 3 pmags now.
Wow, that's impressive.
Pmags are great until the top of them melts.... haven't shot too many full auto's have you. 😂
@featherless1828 I shoot full autos all of the time in call of duty warzone. 😏
@@Featherless1I use aluminum or steel. That gas block gets hot quick. At 900 rpm. 😬
@@Featherless1 well in combat I would hope you're not cooking off that many rounds quickly. Platecarrier-chan's gonna get lonely real quick 😅
I've got various calibers of ammo that I have bought through the years since 1980. If there are any Collectors out there looking for any particular Boxes that 12 gauge shotgun shells came in since the 80's, I've probably got it. Keep your powder dry and be safe my friends.
Didn't see anyone comment on the other myth of only loading to 28. Your rifle was designed to feed from a full magazine. If it can't, you have issues other than magazine capacity.
A spring will only lose tension from repeated cyclical movements. In other words repeated use will wear the metallurgical properties and metallic structure down. Sitting static under tension or at rest make no difference to the spring steel. Chinese made spring steel may not hold up as the steel may be inferior. Impurities in the steel or less robust springs could be affected. So if your an internet bargain shopper you may have a bunch of junk that won’t hold up. I’ve always said that cheap shit costs more money because you will replace it again.
Spent 20 years in the military, we found loaded mags from over 15 years that worked just fine, even put them back in the lines at cad, no issues.
Keep you mags loaded and stop worrying fellas.
we needed this thank you
I've had GI mags loaded with 20 rounds for about 15 years.
Every trip out to the range (including this week), I take some with me and haze had zero issues with the mag and the ammo.
They are stored in the attached garage without climate control.
I do have a dehumidifier.
Good to know
Do you live in a hot area? Badly designed springs can settle when it gets hot. But it still must be a badly designed or poorly manufactured spring.
Grandpapi Joe says you don't need more than 2 shotgun shells one for the air and one for the homies 😂
I have a mag loaded from 2004 but from a Springfield XD40. Makes me wants to see if it fires.
Do it bro
Magpul has stated that those covers are dust cover, they were not made to keep the feed lips from warping, and leaving them off of a loaded, stashed magazine for an extended time was 100% okay. I have seen zero cases of their magazine feed lips getting warped during storage because someone didn’t use the cover. But people will believe what they want to believe.
I’ve had loaded mags work fine after 4 years, pistol and AR, not a super long time but still enough to prove a point. I was never worried about my mags being loaded for a long time.
Shotgun mag springs going bad is shutter, untrue, myth. have a Mossberg 500 12gauge 8 shot that I keep loaded for HD that I’ve had since 2016 (now 2023, still keep it loaded). I take it to the range several times each year so it hasn’t been sitting since then but it runs great and I’ve never had to replace the mag tube spring, at one point I didn’t take it to the range for a full year.
I believe the idea that the magazine springs wear out over time when the mag is loaded was introduced by keyboard Internet professionals (also know as trolls) some time ago. Since there weren’t videos disproving at the time people had to load mags and wait. No there is proof that magazine spring can last a very long time.
If your magazine spring are failing, something is wrong with them.
My idea is, unless you keep the mags in somewhere damp or in direct sunlight or extreme heat, the spring won't have a reason to give out. The only side effect would be a very small loss of push generated over that many years compressed. Still enough to push 30 rounds EZ though
Great work man. Proof’s right here!
I haven’t watched the full vid. But what is the “standard” steel magazine? Surefire E2, another manufacturer, etc???? Just curious
C-products, sorry, I should've clarified.
Like your chest rig setup. What Tactical Vest and Plate Carrier is it? Like mine to be same as yours.
Thank you. God bless.
It's a tacticon armament elite plate carrier. God bless you too brother.
I had magpul ar 5.56 in 3 mags for 6 months and not one issue
The Gimmicky mag is kinda cool also nice video and science experiment
They are. The only thing I don't like is that if the sliding part is not fully seated, it can cause feeding issues.
Makes it easier to load them, though.
My dad had stacks and stacks of ammunition over 10,000 before the house fire.... Fireman wouldn't even get near the house with all the bullets going off
AR mags work well. The problem with ARs is not the magazine - it's that they stop working well (or at all) after about 6-7 mags, particularly in any austere environment.
That forward-assist wasn't added because it looks cool. An M16 becomes a gummed-up mess and a single shot because of the basic flaws inherent in Eugene Stoner's direct gas-impingement design with the stupid gas tube, piston rings on the bolt, a Slinky-Spring bolt carrier & buffer tube arrangement...JUST ADD SAND, SNOW or MUD!
I've got a pump shotgun that has been loaded since 1994 when I bought it. The only times it's been unloaded is when I've shot it or cleaned it. It still works fine.
Good to know
Make a video of just your vest set up and gear you got on if you don’t mind share the knowledge
ruclips.net/video/GEc2iQ1wjRE/видео.htmlsi=Ne0nT1JIo8mNFYmT
Already have.
There ya go, brother.
I plan on doing another on just the plate carrier
My dude, they have legit dug up caves worth of AK mags in Afghan and the worked fine. Things were probably 50 years old.
What hurts springs is cycles, not constant pressure.
Keep your mags loaded, gents'.
Thank you for this. 👍
No problem, friend
I left 5 FAL mags and 6 CZ 75 Italian made magazines loaded in my gun safe for 10 years ,the FAL magazines worked perfectly but 4 of the 6 Cz mags failed due to the springs loosing tension..kinda a bummer ..
I keep loaded 10 years then toss springs and replace using Wolff springs that dude is a rock star!!!!!!! Make sure you tell him if your military or LE he is very 1st responder friendly
Yes yes yes it's our tri-annual reminder that springs wear by cycling - not sitting - and polymer isn't from 1946 anymore.
7 years for nothing lol...
exactly the video i needed to answer my question. much appreciated!
@@BigAirr. welcome friend