Because it’s an over 10 year difference in vehicles and they’re not even the same level Elements are the basics of awd. That being said I put a set of Firestone weathergrips on my sons 2003 awd element and my Toyota Sienna two wheel drive and couldn’t get either one stuck this winter and we had a lot of snow in Wisconsin this year. I would drive home looking for unplowed up hill roads the worst I had to do was backup and go again with my van. The element is a tank with those tires. Get good tires learned this years ago on the Land Rover weekends mine came with Michelin 4x4 contacts same 98 discovery’s came with road radials couldn’t even drive up hills on wet grass.
As I explained in the video, the 11 year gap is misleading. Subaru used the same AWD system in 2003. Also, the Element was made up until 2011 and that generation of Impreza was introduced in 2012. So realistically there is a 0-1 year gap when it comes to mechanical differences. Although, the Element offered VSC starting in 2007 which I cannot test since mine does not have it. I reduced the variables as best I could by removing the VSC fuse in the Impreza. These are my personal vehicles so I can only make due with what I have. I also swapped out the Element for a set of Firestone Weathergrips and also agree it makes it fantastic in the snow, better than the Subaru on all-seasons (obviously, I know). However if they both had the same tire the Subaru would still be better. Appreciate your comments, I'm working on making my videos better!
Honda designed the AWD system on these Element to be as such, its not a 'fault' of any kind in the system........ just the way they design power delivery to the wheels. If anything it's more complex then simply a 1:1 ratio like that of a Subaru I would think. The Honda Element has more power going to the fronts instead of wasting power into the rears UNTIL it's needed so that power won't go wasted and gives you better fuel economy.
Agreed, and not to mention, there's much more to winter drivability than your AWD system. Up until 2016, I never had an AWD car, and I somehow survived 20+ New England winters with an old trick called winter tires. Not saying Subaru's AWD isn't good, but it's not really all that important to severe winter driving imo. Put some good X-Ices or Blizzaks on any vehicle, and you'll find that makes a much bigger difference than having AWD or not. AWD is nice to have for handling purposes, but I'd still pick the Element over an Impreza for driving in snow any day (even if the Element was only FWD).
I definitely wouldn't say it's a fault as each automaker has its reasons for designing it the way they did. If you'd put the awd system from the Impreza and put it in the Honda, there's no doubt it would get about 1-2 mpgs worse but it would work better. It's just a trade-off and gives the consumer more choices
Subaru is definitely at the top of the all wheel drive game. But the element is an extremely versatile vehicle that hopefully goes back on the assembly line 😊
I have a ton experience with driving a 2006 Honda Element in many Iowa winters. I have an automatic. I notice that my front right wheel tends to spin first. Then, the rear right wheel kicks in and straightens things out. Also, the lack of torque is actually a good thing when driving in snow. Much less spinning. I have had 3 different sets of tires and they were all a bit different in snow and rain. I have driven through some very deep unplowed snowy roads and have never been stuck. The thing is a tank. I can't comment on the Subaru other than I learned to drive a manual transmission on a Subaru Brat when I was 12. :)
Honda AWD is also excellent in rainy conditions. It doesn’t snow a whole bunch where I live , but I noticed the first time in rain how much the AWD system kicked in when driving in flying rain drops. My car hit some water started to slide and immediately corrected due to rear tires engaging.
Personally these are not even close to being comparable vehicles. The Subaru is a 2014 AWD and a lot of technology has occurred since the 2003 Element AWD. I think the ground clearance is another factor in snow that exceeds 5-7 inches deep. I own a 2008 Honda Element and it has been a very dependable suv in all kinds of weather. It is roomier than the Subaru and can haul a ton more. Put two Golden Retrievers in the back of the Subaru and they are crowded, in the Element they love the room. So you see compare apples to apples. These two comparisons are not even close to fair.
1/3rd of your complaint was about your dogs enjoying the vehicle. Hondas awd system is not as well known as subarus. He was just trying to show a comparison on what you can expect, compared to a better know, more reputable awd system.
All I know is II took the wrong turn and ended up on a steep, rocky dirt road with our 2007 manual shift Element, pulling a 1400-1500 lb trailer, and the Element got me up and over.
This is fun. Thanks. I've never personally had a subaru, all my siblings have them, but my Honda Element is still the best car i've ever owned with Wisconsin winters. Granted the Element also came with blizzak tires which I know matter just as much if not more for winter driving.
You'll definitely get farther in all-terrain/all-season tires with snow than you will with racing slicks! 😂 Travel entirely too much for work, but definitely don't get through Wisconsin enough.
The Honda has a mechanical clutch system. No electronics controlling the awd system. So the front tires have to loose grip for the rear to kick in. I drove an element in the past 2 winters and it’s still really good honestly.
So… I could technically add AWD to my 2007 LX 2WD from a junkyard 07 AWD? I’m genuinely highly interested. I have sentimental value on mine and don’t want to switch.
@@OzzySepulveda Yes you could technically add AWD to any FWD Element. The hard part is the transmission, as the pinion gear needed to drive the transfer case for the AWD is not installed in a 2WD transmission. The transmission would have to be swapped or opened to add the additional gear for the transfer case to be attached. Beyond that complication, all the other parts can be added.
Drove it in a snowstorm this past week and it did great, especially with the all weather tires it has on it. Even towed my friends car when it was stuck. The mechanical AWD system definitely has its perks, but some sort of traction control could be helpful. At least it means I don't have to worry about the ABS light that's come on this past week!
@@OzzySepulveda I think you could, but it might be cheaper to just look around for a few months and buy another Element that has AWD. Then you'll have TWO Elements, LOL.
I have a 2003 Element and a 2018 Rav4 AWD and was shocked at how much better the Element performed in snow. And it was fun, whereas the Rav4 was scary.
Not an apples to apples comparison. The Element is NOT an AWD vehicle. Its real time 4WD. There's a big difference. Many (incorrectly) think their Element is AWD.
I have a 2004 element and it took a me a while to figure out the AWD system. I hated it at first because I thought you could just stand on the gas and it would work. Unfortunately that wasn’t the case. but once I started to figure out techniques it became the best car I have ever drove in The snow. one thing I learned is let the front wheels spin, then let off the gas and just feather it slightly. Momentum and timing is best with these older Honda AWD systems.
@@mikeredline27 if it were 4wd the same amount of power would be delivered to front and rear as awd and 4wd systems are not the same. Awd uses clutches inside the differentials. 4wd does not.
As a fellow 04 Element AWD owner, thank you for your feedback. I have only felt it kick in talking off from a rainy stop, but I have since put better Michelin Defenders on and have not noticed it engaging.
@@Kizzle001 you usually can’t with Honda’s, there not like Toyota’s or subarus because they don’t make a noise or jolt the car forward. They activate very softly. I think it’s designed that way so power doesn’t fly to the rear wheels and cause over steer or you to spin out on ice. In normal conditions you can smoke the tires out on the front before the rear wheels kick in. That’s just the way this AWD is. So don’t worry, I’m sure your AWD works perfectly fine with no problems. There’s been times I didn’t even think my was activated till I saw the rear wheels slipping.
interestingly, apparently the CRV's of the same general era of the Element had a different type of center differential that engages much more quickly. Wonder why Honda would have done that.
Good thing about honda, is their engines. Most of the hondas engine gives you long life compared to subarus, subaru after 200k miles head gasket will blow pretty soon or morelikely it's overheats
We are running with the Haldex system on our Volvos and Saabs with their AWD in Sweden. The concept of having the rear axle engage when needed is based on many variables not mentioned in this video. Driving on normal roads for about 8-10 months of the year you do not need to have AWD when cruising at 40-70mph, this saves loads in fuel consumption and you can travel further with less amount of fuel. When there is snow on the roads front wheel drive is a better option from a safety point of view when in movement taking corners, because there is less chance of rear-end slide. If you would have done these tests in many more ways than just standing still and stepping on the gas to show the AWD, you would see the benefits and weaknesses of both systems. Now I think it is a great and fun video, I have no favorite system because I love them all for their strengths and weaknesses.
Having owned HR-V, several CR-V's as well as lots of Audi quattros and a few Subaru. Honda is much simpler, but for every day driving in winter environment it will help you. I know about the delay and usually push the accelerator to the floor just before i need the 4wd to have it engaged when I need it. Also its better if its been used and hot. Seems to engage alot faster the second and third times. Very interesting video. Thanks for making.
After 22 years of year round RWD Mazda Miata driving, I just got a 2013 Subaru Legacy, and looking forward to finally having something with all wheel drive this winter. (getting snow tires fitted too, which will be a vast improvement over all seasons) Also it's a manual transmission, and very pleased to hear that the drivetrain is 50/50 biased. That will do wonders against uneven tread wear.
@CurtisStuart27, I am a few years late but I am curious about how well maintained your Element was at that point. Had you ever serviced the rear differential? While looking around on RUclips at different Honda Element videos about snow and off-road, it seems there is a wide range of outcomes - likely due to the system needing to be taken care of for it to operate optimally. If you had not serviced it and/or driven in a way that caused it to activate recently, the difference between the two runs might be explained by it not building sufficient pressure but once it warmed up a bit it was better able to build pressure.
This comparison is not even fair! Try again with a 2011 Element (the least year of production) with quality tires and with the awd system working properly. If your going to compare at least be fair! There's a 10 year difference here!
I have since heard an internet theory that the Element rear differential (or something) would overheat, if modified to always be driving the rear wheels. Maybe somebody has actually done it.
@@boomerguy9935 Yes, as far as cargo capability. Alas, my Element is no more (moment of silence). Daughter was in an accident a year and 1/2 ago and insurance company totaled it. I miss it. From the outside, you would never know how much stuff you could carry.
@@gregdolecki8530 I feel your pain. Before I bought my Element, I gave my daughter my 1999 CR-V with a 5-speed manual which I bought new and loved. I called it my "Japanese Willys" because it had very little power but never let me down in the worst conditions of ice, snow, mud and extreme abuse. She "totaled" it in a single-car accident while avoiding wildlife on a winding mountain road. After it had rolled several times and slid to a stop upside down, she crawled out with only a few bruises.(Also, a moment of silence for the car, but a moment of thankfulness for her survival.) She will get my Element when I am too old to drive. It is also a 5-speed manual.
It's called Honda Real Time 4WD. There's debate on weather it's a "true" 4WD system, but you can take it up with Honda lol. The badges on the 2009-2011 Element models are much less ambiguous.
Good video since I also have a 2017 Crosstrek and a 2018 HR-V. The Honda AWD is a joke for the most part unless you have 4 snow tires. The Subaru AWD is superior to everything out there. I notice on mine that when the car gets bogged down that the front right will turn at the same speed as the rear left tire. I never seen all 4 spin at the same time since I'm the driver! Will probably sell the Honda and buy another Subaru. I had a 2007 Impreza but it got totaled so I bought the Crosstrek. And I also live outside of Buffalo NY!
Bro... Good video.! Explained some thing I had no idea about hahah. Some scenes felt a little long without some videos on it or maybe moving or close in on the graphics as you explain them.! Just my two cents. Keep it up.!
Well done showing the comparison between the two AWD systems. If you get a chance compare a newer much improved Honda AWD system to the Subaru. I think the Honda will compete
@@CurtisStuart27 I have put quite a bit of furniture in mine, including a kitchen center island that was fully constructed. Guys on the dock were giving me a hard time saying it wouldn't fit. We also put two chairs in with it. A friend of mine did put a full sized refrigerator in his, seats were all the way up!
The K-series in that Element was so so much more responsive than the FA in the Impreza. Having a throttle cable instead of throttle by wire probably helped, but either way it was smooth throughout the whole rev range
As you said, sort of an apples/oranges comparison, since the Honda is older and lacks the electronic controls for monitoring and controlling slippage. Even in newer models though, from tests I have seen on RUclips, lower end Hondas dont have a particularly good AWD system (too front drive biased and cant shift power around as well as some others). More expensive models like the Pilot, I believe, have a more sophisticated AWD system that can more efficiently shift power to the rear wheels. I do have a Subaru, and despite some RUclips channels bashing them, I find the AWD system excellent in snow or even icy conditions.
Are stock tire sizes more effective for the AWD system? Bigger tires change the gear ratio/torque... and less torque would mean less spinning of the front tires.
The engineers designed the system based on a specific tire diameter, so in theory it would work best with the stock size. However, I'm sure on these mechanical systems tire size doesn't really affect much as long as they're all the same size
2:21 What??? No way to lock the center differential manually? Do you know why?😄 ‘Cause this thing has no such differential. The rear wheels’ drive shaft is attached to the gearbox via a power take-off. So you were saying there is no way to lock the coupling between the drive shaft and rear reduction drive that rotates the rear wheels.
I have two AWD Elements. One has an AT, the other one a standard transmission. The Element AWD with the AT is smooth, while the AWD with the standard transmission is schizophrenic. The standard can’t decide what wheel gets the torque. It’s amusing to feel it move from wheel to wheel. My wife has an Outback, it’s a completely different experience.The Subaru feels glued to the road. My Element is a 2005, I’m glad Honda improved it in 2003😊.
I would have expected more heat in the viscous system of the Subaru to make the liquid thinner, not thicker (heat normally thins fluids, no?). Non-engineering background here. Great video!
Subaru, Audi, are Mechanical AWD drivetrain with a front/middle and rear differentials. were the Honda is a direct viscus coupled FWD system , no middle differential. While braking the system completely disengages.
Great video, great information. However, also note that subaru adopts a lot of their drivetrain into their fleet of vehicles like the wrx sti turbo forester and so on. Thats a huuuuuge factor of why their awd out performs hondas awd. Honda doesnt use their awd system in their turbo sports cars... wait... they dont have any awd turbo sports cars... I currently have an 05 automatic awd element creeping up on 200k miles. It runs perfectly. Oh, I also live and drive it daily in the mountains of western NC. Oh, also i had a 2014 subaru outback for 4 months and decided to keep the element instead of the outback and ironically, i traded the outback for a 2011 honda ridgeline. Lol There is a clear disadvantage in the 2 vehicles. Thats like comparing a 2011 subaru outback to a 2022 ecoboost 4wd f150? Both are turbo and "awd" Perhaps compare a 2007 awd element to a 1996 subaru outback?
I have a feeling most people who make these claims have never actually done any real car work other than a tune up. Lmao. The head gasket issue is tied to people who modify their cars without any supporting mods to their engine or cooling system. You can just throw bolt ons and tuning at your car without ensuring it can handle the extra stress. If you leave most cars dead stock and maintain them to the manufacturer’s “heavy use/short interval” service schedule, they run forever. Most people just suck at caring for their car unless they either have interest in doing it themselves or pay to have it serviced frequently enough.
Haha, but the AWD works better when it runs. In all seriousness, the FA engines have far less head gasket issues compared to the EJs. My first car was a 2007 Outback with an EJ25 and it never blew even when I sold it around 145k miles. It's still something to look out for on older Subarus, but on newer ones it's an issue that doesn't really exist anymore.
Not exactly a fair comparison, this was before VSA was added to the Element and VSA makes all the difference when it comes to Hondas and traction. In fact, I'd prefer the 2WD models as long as they have VSA because of the greater simplicity of the drivetrain and less maintenance, not to mention better mileage, if they also had the huge moonroof in the rear. Agree that the Subaru system is better, but that's to be expected with a full-time system. Go big or go home, the Subarus are better for hardcore winter driving. You also have to factor changing all 4 tires simultaneously and all of that additional complexity and cost to maintain.
Excellent - i have a 2003 Subaru Vue AWD with the Honda 3.5 V6 and Tranny I'm sure it used Honda AWD Technology and not GM's. Not sure - only have it a few months has not seen snow yet. But the key is I have Nokian Tyres!!!! Finland the originator of the snow tire.
What am I missing ? you're comparing two radically different systems .All wheel drive is not 4 wheel drive..In fact if you just look at the rear axle size on the Honda you'll quickly realize It's not heavy enough to drive the car alone , it cannot handle pushing the car if stuck by the front wheels.
Technically NO four wheel drive system uses hydraulic pumps. They use a transfer case mated to the transmission and neither the engine or the transaxle would be transversed. Also you would have the ability to have 4 hi and 4 low ranges. You would also have the ability to add locking differential in a four wheel drive system.
Honda AWD is great for efficiency and reliability (it doesn't wear out if it isn't do anything most of the time). It's inferior to proper full time AWD or 4WD in real world winter driving though. Crashes on highways happen on ice most of the time. Having my car a 2WD until it detects slip isn't helpful when you're encountering sudden ice sections. The car is too slow to react and slippage has occured before the system kicks in. If you drive in the city or very mild winters, get a Honda. If you drive scary winter roads, get a truck, Acura with SH-AWD, Lexus car (they have full-time AWD) or a Subaru
Lock up the honda rear drive shaft because it "real time 4wd" which only kick in when the front slip & the rear axle so skinny, but I love my honda like i love my ganja I smoke ur v8 like I smoke marijuana,
Haha Subaru is hands down the better car. Subaru has the best 4x4 transmission out of all the car companies hands down. Their trans design is lightyears ahead of everyone else.
I do wish the Subaru had a shorter first gear sometimes, but overall I'm not too familiar with the internal design of their transmissions. Do you have any sources where I can read more on it?
Here is the real difference between the two. A Honda element is made for a climate where you get some snow some times. The Subaru is made for a climate where snow dominates your daily drive for half the year, Here's why... The Honda is made to only engage 4wd when needed and quickly return to 2wd because 2wd is much more fuel efficient, as in 3-4 mpg more fuel efficient. The Subaru is 3-4 mpg less fuel efficient in order to maintain active all-time 4wd, The Subaru is belter for Canada and Scandinavia, and the Honda is better for the US and the rest of Europe....more or less.
I’m reading this as an Element owner who lives In MN where it does snow for half the year haha I def let out a cartoonish sound when reading you’re response hahaha. I’ve been thinking I should get a Subaru since I love wagons and manual transmissions. I have a cousin who has put a lot of money into his: it’s a little intimidating haha. I think this might have solidified it for me
Ideal Element. Honda 3.5L V6. The trans probably should stay the same (someone makes an adapter for V6 to the Element manual trans) bc to make it full-time AWD, too much would need to be swapped.
Really, the v6? I have the i4 and I’m very happy. I’ve never really wanted more power, especially due to the vtec: I’d love to know you’re thinking cause I want another element but with a manual so maybe I’d want a v6 instead for that, you know?
You're comparing a full time AWD system to an on-demand AWD system. They do not behave the same, especially from a stop. They are both fruit, but not an apple to oranges comparison. That should not come as a surprise to anyone. The on-demand ones kick in pretty quickly in real life and that's why the video needs to use slow motion to "see" the difference. Yes, on-demand will react slower, that's not news. But unless you are trying to race from stop-light to stop-light, you'll be pretty happy with both in the winter. There are benefits to both. Full time is always AWD. On-demand gives better fuel economy. I personally have a full time one and my wife's SUV in on-demand. Both perform great in the snow. But more important than AWD in snow is your traction provided by the tires - use winter ones if you get snow & ice. That's a bigger factor than AWD believe it or not.
These FWD biased vehicles are known to us transfercase 4x4 folks as fake AWD. Ive seen many AWD vehicles stuck in snow or can barely move without flooring the pedal to activate the rear wheels. You need to have all wheels moving to provide the best traction so you wouldnt get stuck. Not some fake slip detection system to push then to stop.
*facepalm* Not a real comparison because the Honda Element does NOT have all-wheel-drive. Again - this Honda does not have an AWD system. (Soure? Honda Motor Co. plus Honda nerds like me who currently own two Es and have serviced a few hundred since '03.) The Element is an automatic 4x4. What does this mean? It always runs in FWD until it feels any slippage in either of its front wheels. Once the computer feels slippage, it engages the rear wheels and the vehicle goes into 4x4 mode. Once the computer determines driving conditions warrant it, the rear is disengaged and the Element goes back into FWD mode. Since 2WD is a little better on fuel economy, NOT having an AWD system is actually great for the Honda Element from a fuel economy point-of-view, considering you are driving something with the aerodynamics of a billboard.
id like to point out that the GY wrangler GSA(element) is garbage, and the general altimax rt43(impreza) was named the "best bang for your buck" all season tire on the market by consumer reports
4WD does not work the same as AWD. AWD uses individual braking and clutches to send the power to other wheels. I should say subaru as their symmetrical awd system is superior. Symmetrical means all half shafts are equal length, which does not cause torque steer because subaru does not use a transverse engine.
@Some Bloke got it. Wasn't sure what you were saying. You're right. The true 4wd market is limited to Jeep Toyota and Ford with the new full size bronco as far as SUVs go.
I have both cars .... 98 impreza and 2008 element. Without studed tires the subara is like a hog on ice. with the studs it will pass the snow plows. Never have had studed tires on the element. My wife drives the element and I have rarely driven in in ice and snow.
This is not Subaru AWD. It’s schizophrenic personality really come through with a manual transmission. It’s still the best “people’s car” ever made. It just can’t decide what wheel to send the power to sometimes.
Honda's SH-AWD destroys Subaru's AWD though. Bad comparison when using a outdated technology Honda doesn't even using anymore to one that is closer to what subie uses currently.
Did you watch the video? Because he did say that there been changes made in 2007 . He acknowledged it all, but did the best he could to give you an idea as to how they work and similarities
Great explanations of the way these two different systems work. Why are you calling the Honda Element Realtime 4WD system an AWD system. It plainly is not AWD. Doesn't the term AWD mean all wheels drive the vehicle all the time. Honda itself has never referred to their system as AWD. Please make this distinction in your future videos.
4wd systems are not operated by hydraulic systems. They have a transfer case, differentials, and wheel hubs. Like a pickup truck. 4wd also normally has a two range transfer case. Awd like the Honda and subaru do not. It's Honda advertising. Nothing more than a name they called it. Lastly, true 4wd vehicles do not have transversed engines.
@@jeremyelliott9831 for precisely the reasons you state. A real four wheel drive system does not use clutches to spilt the power between axles. It uses a transfer case, not a transaxle. Four wheel drive never comes in a transversed engine configuration. Four wheel drive normal has a separate gear box within the transfer case giving you 4H and 4L as well as sometimes 2H and 2L and neutral that has nothing to do with the transmission.
How does this not have more views? This is by far the best comparison I've ever seen of two different awd systems
Because it’s an over 10 year difference in vehicles and they’re not even the same level Elements are the basics of awd. That being said I put a set of Firestone weathergrips on my sons 2003 awd element and my Toyota Sienna two wheel drive and couldn’t get either one stuck this winter and we had a lot of snow in Wisconsin this year. I would drive home looking for unplowed up hill roads the worst I had to do was backup and go again with my van. The element is a tank with those tires. Get good tires learned this years ago on the Land Rover weekends mine came with Michelin 4x4 contacts same 98 discovery’s came with road radials couldn’t even drive up hills on wet grass.
he needs to pump out more videos more frequently for that algorithm
I agree
As I explained in the video, the 11 year gap is misleading. Subaru used the same AWD system in 2003. Also, the Element was made up until 2011 and that generation of Impreza was introduced in 2012. So realistically there is a 0-1 year gap when it comes to mechanical differences. Although, the Element offered VSC starting in 2007 which I cannot test since mine does not have it. I reduced the variables as best I could by removing the VSC fuse in the Impreza. These are my personal vehicles so I can only make due with what I have.
I also swapped out the Element for a set of Firestone Weathergrips and also agree it makes it fantastic in the snow, better than the Subaru on all-seasons (obviously, I know). However if they both had the same tire the Subaru would still be better. Appreciate your comments, I'm working on making my videos better!
Not really. A 2014 vs a 2003? Try a newer Honda for fair comparison.
Honda designed the AWD system on these Element to be as such, its not a 'fault' of any kind in the system........ just the way they design power delivery to the wheels. If anything it's more complex then simply a 1:1 ratio like that of a Subaru I would think. The Honda Element has more power going to the fronts instead of wasting power into the rears UNTIL it's needed so that power won't go wasted and gives you better fuel economy.
Agreed, and not to mention, there's much more to winter drivability than your AWD system. Up until 2016, I never had an AWD car, and I somehow survived 20+ New England winters with an old trick called winter tires. Not saying Subaru's AWD isn't good, but it's not really all that important to severe winter driving imo. Put some good X-Ices or Blizzaks on any vehicle, and you'll find that makes a much bigger difference than having AWD or not. AWD is nice to have for handling purposes, but I'd still pick the Element over an Impreza for driving in snow any day (even if the Element was only FWD).
Fuel economy in a Shitbox lol
I definitely wouldn't say it's a fault as each automaker has its reasons for designing it the way they did. If you'd put the awd system from the Impreza and put it in the Honda, there's no doubt it would get about 1-2 mpgs worse but it would work better. It's just a trade-off and gives the consumer more choices
@@mikej238 The Element is not a shitbox 💀
Performs similar to a haldex
Subaru is definitely at the top of the all wheel drive game. But the element is an extremely versatile vehicle that hopefully goes back on the assembly line 😊
Very well done. I am not an automotive engineer but can grasp basic concepts. You explanation was very enlightening and informative.
I have a ton experience with driving a 2006 Honda Element in many Iowa winters. I have an automatic. I notice that my front right wheel tends to spin first. Then, the rear right wheel kicks in and straightens things out. Also, the lack of torque is actually a good thing when driving in snow. Much less spinning. I have had 3 different sets of tires and they were all a bit different in snow and rain. I have driven through some very deep unplowed snowy roads and have never been stuck. The thing is a tank. I can't comment on the Subaru other than I learned to drive a manual transmission on a Subaru Brat when I was 12. :)
Nice, I just bought a 2006 Honda Element AWD. My other vehicle is the real beast in snow. A 2011 ram 3500 dually 4x4.
Honda AWD is also excellent in rainy conditions. It doesn’t snow a whole bunch where I live , but I noticed the first time in rain how much the AWD system kicked in when driving in flying rain drops. My car hit some water started to slide and immediately corrected due to rear tires engaging.
Personally these are not even close to being comparable vehicles. The Subaru is a 2014 AWD and a lot of technology has occurred since the 2003 Element AWD. I think the ground clearance is another factor in snow that exceeds 5-7 inches deep. I own a 2008 Honda Element and it has been a very dependable suv in all kinds of weather. It is roomier than the Subaru and can haul a ton more. Put two Golden Retrievers in the back of the Subaru and they are crowded, in the Element they love the room. So you see compare apples to apples. These two comparisons are not even close to fair.
1/3rd of your complaint was about your dogs enjoying the vehicle. Hondas awd system is not as well known as subarus. He was just trying to show a comparison on what you can expect, compared to a better know, more reputable awd system.
Isn’t that kind of the point?
All I know is II took the wrong turn and ended up on a steep, rocky dirt road with our 2007 manual shift Element, pulling a 1400-1500 lb trailer, and the Element got me up and over.
What a review, by far, the most detailed review I found. Thanks so much
This is fun. Thanks. I've never personally had a subaru, all my siblings have them, but my Honda Element is still the best car i've ever owned with Wisconsin winters. Granted the Element also came with blizzak tires which I know matter just as much if not more for winter driving.
You'll definitely get farther in all-terrain/all-season tires with snow than you will with racing slicks! 😂
Travel entirely too much for work, but definitely don't get through Wisconsin enough.
I subbed to add to your 264 subscribers. Very good presentation !!
The Honda has a mechanical clutch system. No electronics controlling the awd system. So the front tires have to loose grip for the rear to kick in. I drove an element in the past 2 winters and it’s still really good honestly.
So… I could technically add AWD to my 2007 LX 2WD from a junkyard 07 AWD? I’m genuinely highly interested. I have sentimental value on mine and don’t want to switch.
@@OzzySepulveda Yes you could technically add AWD to any FWD Element. The hard part is the transmission, as the pinion gear needed to drive the transfer case for the AWD is not installed in a 2WD transmission. The transmission would have to be swapped or opened to add the additional gear for the transfer case to be attached. Beyond that complication, all the other parts can be added.
Drove it in a snowstorm this past week and it did great, especially with the all weather tires it has on it. Even towed my friends car when it was stuck. The mechanical AWD system definitely has its perks, but some sort of traction control could be helpful. At least it means I don't have to worry about the ABS light that's come on this past week!
@@OzzySepulveda I think you could, but it might be cheaper to just look around for a few months and buy another Element that has AWD. Then you'll have TWO Elements, LOL.
I have a 2003 Element and a 2018 Rav4 AWD and was shocked at how much better the Element performed in snow. And it was fun, whereas the Rav4 was scary.
Not an apples to apples comparison. The Element is NOT an AWD vehicle. Its real time 4WD. There's a big difference. Many (incorrectly) think their Element is AWD.
I have a 2004 element and it took a me a while to figure out the AWD system. I hated it at first because I thought you could just stand on the gas and it would work. Unfortunately that wasn’t the case. but once I started to figure out techniques it became the best car I have ever drove in The snow. one thing I learned is let the front wheels spin, then let off the gas and just feather it slightly. Momentum and timing is best with these older Honda AWD systems.
Because it's not AWD it's 4WD
@@mikeredline27 if it were 4wd the same amount of power would be delivered to front and rear as awd and 4wd systems are not the same. Awd uses clutches inside the differentials. 4wd does not.
@@digitalunit318 I still prefer my pro 4x frontier in snow and at the hunting club 😉
As a fellow 04 Element AWD owner, thank you for your feedback. I have only felt it kick in talking off from a rainy stop, but I have since put better Michelin Defenders on and have not noticed it engaging.
@@Kizzle001 you usually can’t with Honda’s, there not like Toyota’s or subarus because they don’t make a noise or jolt the car forward. They activate very softly. I think it’s designed that way so power doesn’t fly to the rear wheels and cause over steer or you to spin out on ice. In normal conditions you can smoke the tires out on the front before the rear wheels kick in. That’s just the way this AWD is. So don’t worry, I’m sure your AWD works perfectly fine with no problems. There’s been times I didn’t even think my was activated till I saw the rear wheels slipping.
Element, you can put a full size bed at the back
interestingly, apparently the CRV's of the same general era of the Element had a different type of center differential that engages much more quickly. Wonder why Honda would have done that.
Good thing about honda, is their engines. Most of the hondas engine gives you long life compared to subarus, subaru after 200k miles head gasket will blow pretty soon or morelikely it's overheats
We are running with the Haldex system on our Volvos and Saabs with their AWD in Sweden. The concept of having the rear axle engage when needed is based on many variables not mentioned in this video. Driving on normal roads for about 8-10 months of the year you do not need to have AWD when cruising at 40-70mph, this saves loads in fuel consumption and you can travel further with less amount of fuel. When there is snow on the roads front wheel drive is a better option from a safety point of view when in movement taking corners, because there is less chance of rear-end slide. If you would have done these tests in many more ways than just standing still and stepping on the gas to show the AWD, you would see the benefits and weaknesses of both systems. Now I think it is a great and fun video, I have no favorite system because I love them all for their strengths and weaknesses.
Having owned HR-V, several CR-V's as well as lots of Audi quattros and a few Subaru.
Honda is much simpler, but for every day driving in winter environment it will help you. I know about the delay and usually push the accelerator to the floor just before i need the 4wd to have it engaged when I need it. Also its better if its been used and hot. Seems to engage alot faster the second and third times.
Very interesting video. Thanks for making.
After 22 years of year round RWD Mazda Miata driving, I just got a 2013 Subaru Legacy, and looking forward to finally having something with all wheel drive this winter. (getting snow tires fitted too, which will be a vast improvement over all seasons)
Also it's a manual transmission, and very pleased to hear that the drivetrain is 50/50 biased. That will do wonders against uneven tread wear.
@CurtisStuart27, I am a few years late but I am curious about how well maintained your Element was at that point. Had you ever serviced the rear differential? While looking around on RUclips at different Honda Element videos about snow and off-road, it seems there is a wide range of outcomes - likely due to the system needing to be taken care of for it to operate optimally. If you had not serviced it and/or driven in a way that caused it to activate recently, the difference between the two runs might be explained by it not building sufficient pressure but once it warmed up a bit it was better able to build pressure.
This comparison is not even fair! Try again with a 2011 Element (the least year of production) with quality tires and with the awd system working properly. If your going to compare at least be fair! There's a 10 year difference here!
So, on the Honda... could you modify the valves to always be open... so that the front and rear axle are always connected?
I have since heard an internet theory that the Element rear differential (or something) would overheat, if modified to always be driving the rear wheels. Maybe somebody has actually done it.
Is another That Chapter starting?
I love my 2003 Honda Element
dump the clutch? to get started properly in snow, START IN SECOND GEAR, manual or automatic
I have both the Element and a Subaru Outback. The Outback wins in the snow all day, every day.
True, but the Element can carry many more sizes and shapes of objects.
Apples to oranges.
@@boomerguy9935 Yes, as far as cargo capability. Alas, my Element is no more (moment of silence). Daughter was in an accident a year and 1/2 ago and insurance company totaled it. I miss it. From the outside, you would never know how much stuff you could carry.
@@gregdolecki8530 I feel your pain. Before I bought my Element, I gave my daughter my 1999 CR-V with a 5-speed manual which I bought new and loved. I called it my "Japanese Willys" because it had very little power but never let me down in the worst conditions of ice, snow, mud and extreme abuse. She "totaled" it in a single-car accident while avoiding wildlife on a winding mountain road. After it had rolled several times and slid to a stop upside down, she crawled out with only a few bruises.(Also, a moment of silence for the car, but a moment of thankfulness for her survival.) She will get my Element when I am too old to drive. It is also a 5-speed manual.
It's called Honda Real Time 4WD. There's debate on weather it's a "true" 4WD system, but you can take it up with Honda lol. The badges on the 2009-2011 Element models are much less ambiguous.
Good video since I also have a 2017 Crosstrek and a 2018 HR-V. The Honda AWD is a joke for the most part unless you have 4 snow tires. The Subaru AWD is superior to everything out there. I notice on mine that when the car gets bogged down that the front right will turn at the same speed as the rear left tire. I never seen all 4 spin at the same time since I'm the driver! Will probably sell the Honda and buy another Subaru. I had a 2007 Impreza but it got totaled so I bought the Crosstrek. And I also live outside of Buffalo NY!
Too bad you never got a chance to drive a Honda MDX with it's SH-AWD system. If you did you be amazed
Bro... Good video.! Explained some thing I had no idea about hahah. Some scenes felt a little long without some videos on it or maybe moving or close in on the graphics as you explain them.! Just my two cents. Keep it up.!
Well done showing the comparison between the two AWD systems.
If you get a chance compare a newer much improved Honda AWD system to the Subaru. I think the Honda will compete
Is the element AWD the same as a 2000 Honda CR-V AWD? thanks
Subaru should hire this guy. He has the brains and that nerdy look.
But can you fit a full sized refrigerator in the Subaru?
No I cannot haha. Have you fit one in an Element before? I've carried a couch in mine before
@@CurtisStuart27 I have put quite a bit of furniture in mine, including a kitchen center island that was fully constructed. Guys on the dock were giving me a hard time saying it wouldn't fit. We also put two chairs in with it. A friend of mine did put a full sized refrigerator in his, seats were all the way up!
Stuart, you deserve far more subs bud, you've earned my subscription
I'd still rather have the Honda, it has the K series so it's more reliable and has more potential.
The K-series in that Element was so so much more responsive than the FA in the Impreza. Having a throttle cable instead of throttle by wire probably helped, but either way it was smooth throughout the whole rev range
So why do the front wheels act like limited slip?
Ive had my honda element for years it get thru 2foot of snow easily. I have 171.00k miles still going strong. Better than 4 wheel drive anytime.😀🤗
should I keep traction off for daily drive on a subaru?
As you said, sort of an apples/oranges comparison, since the Honda is older and lacks the electronic controls for monitoring and controlling slippage. Even in newer models though, from tests I have seen on RUclips, lower end Hondas dont have a particularly good AWD system (too front drive biased and cant shift power around as well as some others). More expensive models like the Pilot, I believe, have a more sophisticated AWD system that can more efficiently shift power to the rear wheels.
I do have a Subaru, and despite some RUclips channels bashing them, I find the AWD system excellent in snow or even icy conditions.
The element doesn’t really have a center differential. It has a prop shaft coming off the final drive of the trans.
Are stock tire sizes more effective for the AWD system? Bigger tires change the gear ratio/torque... and less torque would mean less spinning of the front tires.
The engineers designed the system based on a specific tire diameter, so in theory it would work best with the stock size. However, I'm sure on these mechanical systems tire size doesn't really affect much as long as they're all the same size
Good video, even better when the music goes away
Enjoyed the video! I subscribed. Keep it going man
Sweet vid! Simple and yet entertaining! Subbed!
This is a great video! Thank you for sharing. I have an 05 AWD Element and have always been curious to see the AWD functionality in action.
2:21 What???
No way to lock the center differential manually?
Do you know why?😄
‘Cause this thing has no such differential.
The rear wheels’ drive shaft is attached to the gearbox via a power take-off.
So you were saying there is no way to lock the coupling between the drive shaft and rear reduction drive that rotates the rear wheels.
My Element is 2WD but I don't have snow in my area
I have a 4wd and live in Minnesota: when those back wheels kick in, it relieves a lot of stress
In the first Subaru pass, the car slips sideways, therefore in my opinion the Honda is the winner.
That sure is a beautiful blue on the Subaru!!
I have two AWD Elements. One has an AT, the other one a standard transmission. The Element AWD with the AT is smooth, while the AWD with the standard transmission is schizophrenic. The standard can’t decide what wheel gets the torque. It’s amusing to feel it move from wheel to wheel. My wife has an Outback, it’s a completely different experience.The Subaru feels glued to the road. My Element is a 2005, I’m glad Honda improved it in 2003😊.
I would have expected more heat in the viscous system of the Subaru to make the liquid thinner, not thicker (heat normally thins fluids, no?). Non-engineering background here. Great video!
How fair is it to compare a 2014 to a 2003?
I live in a climate with a lot of snow and I would much rather have the Honda 4wd. 4 wheels when I need them and fwd the rest of the time.
Im contemplating drilling out the rear diff pump hole, adding bigger springs the maybe welding the spider gears . I'm sure it'll do well for off road
Subaru, Audi, are Mechanical AWD drivetrain with a front/middle and rear differentials. were the Honda is a direct viscus coupled FWD system , no middle differential.
While braking the system completely disengages.
you're great. I appreciate you.
Great video, great information.
However, also note that subaru adopts a lot of their drivetrain into their fleet of vehicles like the wrx sti turbo forester and so on. Thats a huuuuuge factor of why their awd out performs hondas awd. Honda doesnt use their awd system in their turbo sports cars... wait... they dont have any awd turbo sports cars...
I currently have an 05 automatic awd element creeping up on 200k miles. It runs perfectly. Oh, I also live and drive it daily in the mountains of western NC. Oh, also i had a 2014 subaru outback for 4 months and decided to keep the element instead of the outback and ironically, i traded the outback for a 2011 honda ridgeline. Lol
There is a clear disadvantage in the 2 vehicles. Thats like comparing a 2011 subaru outback to a 2022 ecoboost 4wd f150? Both are turbo and "awd"
Perhaps compare a 2007 awd element to a 1996 subaru outback?
Once that Subaru head gasket blows, the AWD won't work as well.
If you don't maintain any car it won't work. I've had 12 subarus ranging from 1993 to 2019. Never had a single head gasket issue.
@@digitalunit318
But you know Subarus are known for blowing head gaskets every 6 months, correct? I don't know how you wouldn't know that.
I have a feeling most people who make these claims have never actually done any real car work other than a tune up. Lmao.
The head gasket issue is tied to people who modify their cars without any supporting mods to their engine or cooling system. You can just throw bolt ons and tuning at your car without ensuring it can handle the extra stress.
If you leave most cars dead stock and maintain them to the manufacturer’s “heavy use/short interval” service schedule, they run forever. Most people just suck at caring for their car unless they either have interest in doing it themselves or pay to have it serviced frequently enough.
My honda element has 275k no problems. Original tranny and engine. Duck subarus.
Haha, but the AWD works better when it runs. In all seriousness, the FA engines have far less head gasket issues compared to the EJs. My first car was a 2007 Outback with an EJ25 and it never blew even when I sold it around 145k miles. It's still something to look out for on older Subarus, but on newer ones it's an issue that doesn't really exist anymore.
you should test a acura sh-awd vs a subaru
I own an Element and I find the awd useful to get over snow the plow piled up at the end of my driveway if I wasn't home shovel it.
Not exactly a fair comparison, this was before VSA was added to the Element and VSA makes all the difference when it comes to Hondas and traction.
In fact, I'd prefer the 2WD models as long as they have VSA because of the greater simplicity of the drivetrain and less maintenance, not to mention better mileage, if they also had the huge moonroof in the rear.
Agree that the Subaru system is better, but that's to be expected with a full-time system. Go big or go home, the Subarus are better for hardcore winter driving. You also have to factor changing all 4 tires simultaneously and all of that additional complexity and cost to maintain.
Good explanation thanks.
Great video. I’ve been pondering the purchase of an Element for overlanding and this helps me with my decision.
I love my Ele!!
Excellent - i have a 2003 Subaru Vue AWD with the Honda 3.5 V6 and Tranny I'm sure it used Honda AWD Technology and not GM's. Not sure - only have it a few months has not seen snow yet. But the key is I have Nokian Tyres!!!! Finland the originator of the snow tire.
What am I missing ? you're comparing two radically different systems .All wheel drive is not 4 wheel drive..In fact if you just look at the rear axle size on the Honda you'll quickly realize It's not heavy enough to drive the car alone , it cannot handle pushing the car if stuck by the front wheels.
great video. The element is a great car, but the Subaru awd is definitely better. The subarus also handle washboard roads much better.
Bad ass video man
Great video
Honda Element all the way! Your dogs will like the Honda better too.
Yeah sure, it's not an apples to apples comparison, but I came away with a somewhat better understanding of the two systems. Thanks.
Technically the Honda Element is not all wheel drive it's four wheel drive big difference
Technically NO four wheel drive system uses hydraulic pumps. They use a transfer case mated to the transmission and neither the engine or the transaxle would be transversed. Also you would have the ability to have 4 hi and 4 low ranges. You would also have the ability to add locking differential in a four wheel drive system.
Honda AWD is great for efficiency and reliability (it doesn't wear out if it isn't do anything most of the time). It's inferior to proper full time AWD or 4WD in real world winter driving though.
Crashes on highways happen on ice most of the time. Having my car a 2WD until it detects slip isn't helpful when you're encountering sudden ice sections. The car is too slow to react and slippage has occured before the system kicks in.
If you drive in the city or very mild winters, get a Honda. If you drive scary winter roads, get a truck, Acura with SH-AWD, Lexus car (they have full-time AWD) or a Subaru
Lock up the honda rear drive shaft because it "real time 4wd" which only kick in when the front slip & the rear axle so skinny, but I love my honda like i love my ganja I smoke ur v8 like I smoke marijuana,
I was thinking about drilling out the pump
My 2004 element works great but honda says it's not a true awd.
Honda would need a viscous coupler and welded rear differential plates to make it more like the subaru!
Haha Subaru is hands down the better car. Subaru has the best 4x4 transmission out of all the car companies hands down. Their trans design is lightyears ahead of everyone else.
I do wish the Subaru had a shorter first gear sometimes, but overall I'm not too familiar with the internal design of their transmissions. Do you have any sources where I can read more on it?
Here is the real difference between the two. A Honda element is made for a climate where you get some snow some times. The Subaru is made for a climate where snow dominates your daily drive for half the year, Here's why... The Honda is made to only engage 4wd when needed and quickly return to 2wd because 2wd is much more fuel efficient, as in 3-4 mpg more fuel efficient. The Subaru is 3-4 mpg less fuel efficient in order to maintain active all-time 4wd, The Subaru is belter for Canada and Scandinavia, and the Honda is better for the US and the rest of Europe....more or less.
I’m reading this as an Element owner who lives In MN where it does snow for half the year haha
I def let out a cartoonish sound when reading you’re response hahaha.
I’ve been thinking I should get a Subaru since I love wagons and manual transmissions. I have a cousin who has put a lot of money into his: it’s a little intimidating haha. I think this might have solidified it for me
Great video thanks 🤘
Ideal Element. Honda 3.5L V6. The trans probably should stay the same (someone makes an adapter for V6 to the Element manual trans) bc to make it full-time AWD, too much would need to be swapped.
Really, the v6? I have the i4 and I’m very happy.
I’ve never really wanted more power, especially due to the vtec: I’d love to know you’re thinking cause I want another element but with a manual so maybe I’d want a v6 instead for that, you know?
@@bbuny10 No, just buy another Element with a manual transmission. I have one and love it.
You're comparing a full time AWD system to an on-demand AWD system. They do not behave the same, especially from a stop. They are both fruit, but not an apple to oranges comparison. That should not come as a surprise to anyone. The on-demand ones kick in pretty quickly in real life and that's why the video needs to use slow motion to "see" the difference. Yes, on-demand will react slower, that's not news. But unless you are trying to race from stop-light to stop-light, you'll be pretty happy with both in the winter. There are benefits to both. Full time is always AWD. On-demand gives better fuel economy. I personally have a full time one and my wife's SUV in on-demand. Both perform great in the snow. But more important than AWD in snow is your traction provided by the tires - use winter ones if you get snow & ice. That's a bigger factor than AWD believe it or not.
These FWD biased vehicles are known to us transfercase 4x4 folks as fake AWD. Ive seen many AWD vehicles stuck in snow or can barely move without flooring the pedal to activate the rear wheels.
You need to have all wheels moving to provide the best traction so you wouldnt get stuck. Not some fake slip detection system to push then to stop.
"slow 2 liter terms", i feel you that
Isn’t a better comparison Subaru vs Mazda? The Mazda3 and their SUVs are pretty good.
By unplugging an abs sensor in the honda, it will light up all 4
Having driven awd hondas, manual and automatic awd subarus, awd dodge vehicles and awd vw/audi , I will take infiniti's awd
*facepalm* Not a real comparison because the Honda Element does NOT have all-wheel-drive.
Again - this Honda does not have an AWD system. (Soure? Honda Motor Co. plus Honda nerds like me who currently own two Es and have serviced a few hundred since '03.)
The Element is an automatic 4x4. What does this mean? It always runs in FWD until it feels any slippage in either of its front wheels. Once the computer feels slippage, it engages the rear wheels and the vehicle goes into 4x4 mode. Once the computer determines driving conditions warrant it, the rear is disengaged and the Element goes back into FWD mode.
Since 2WD is a little better on fuel economy, NOT having an AWD system is actually great for the Honda Element from a fuel economy point-of-view, considering you are driving something with the aerodynamics of a billboard.
id like to point out that the GY wrangler GSA(element) is garbage, and the general altimax rt43(impreza) was named the "best bang for your buck" all season tire on the market by consumer reports
The Honda is an old hydraulically activated AWD so it requires slip to activate.
I would love to see some sort of suv with 4WD. I have a 2003 Escalade and have never driven in snow ❄️
4WD does not work the same as AWD. AWD uses individual braking and clutches to send the power to other wheels. I should say subaru as their symmetrical awd system is superior. Symmetrical means all half shafts are equal length, which does not cause torque steer because subaru does not use a transverse engine.
@Some Bloke both four wheel drive vehicles. Body on frame. Not awd.
@Some Bloke got it. Wasn't sure what you were saying. You're right. The true 4wd market is limited to Jeep Toyota and Ford with the new full size bronco as far as SUVs go.
@Some Bloke I didn't even think about nissan/Infinity lol. Or chevy full size tahoe.
That friction physics is only true in winter and water conditions . Tires on pavement have higher kenetic friction then static
I have both cars .... 98 impreza and 2008 element. Without studed tires the subara is like a hog on ice. with the studs it will pass the snow plows. Never have had studed tires on the element. My wife drives the element and I have rarely driven in in ice and snow.
Sounds like you had bad tires 🤣. I drive mine on ice in the mountains with no studded tires. Yes they help, but it does just fine.
This is not Subaru AWD. It’s schizophrenic personality really come through with a manual transmission. It’s still the best “people’s car” ever made. It just can’t decide what wheel to send the power to sometimes.
who else felt like someone was gonna die in this video due to the that chapter song lol
Honda's SH-AWD destroys Subaru's AWD though. Bad comparison when using a outdated technology Honda doesn't even using anymore to one that is closer to what subie uses currently.
Did you watch the video? Because he did say that there been changes made in 2007 . He acknowledged it all, but did the best he could to give you an idea as to how they work and similarities
Really 2003 to a 2014 this guy
I believe the SH-AWD is only on the Acura line up and not Honda (yeah, same company, different AWD system)
honda once had intrac awd with rear lsd and a less common front lsd it was similar but more fun.
Amazing
Great explanations of the way these two different systems work. Why are you calling the Honda Element Realtime 4WD system an AWD system. It plainly is not AWD. Doesn't the term AWD mean all wheels drive the vehicle all the time. Honda itself has never referred to their system as AWD. Please make this distinction in your future videos.
4wd systems are not operated by hydraulic systems. They have a transfer case, differentials, and wheel hubs. Like a pickup truck. 4wd also normally has a two range transfer case. Awd like the Honda and subaru do not. It's Honda advertising. Nothing more than a name they called it. Lastly, true 4wd vehicles do not have transversed engines.
@Some Bloke correct
@@jeremyelliott9831 for precisely the reasons you state. A real four wheel drive system does not use clutches to spilt the power between axles. It uses a transfer case, not a transaxle. Four wheel drive never comes in a transversed engine configuration. Four wheel drive normal has a separate gear box within the transfer case giving you 4H and 4L as well as sometimes 2H and 2L and neutral that has nothing to do with the transmission.