I remember one occasion where Kat Blaque said she is always perceived as "radical" for being black and trans. The idea of "conservative" transness it's quite racially charged.
Your discussion regarding binary trans women still ending up living a nonbinary experience, brought up a memory, relating to the trans-masc community. There's several black trans-masc tik tokers I follow, because they make interesting commentary about gender that I rarely see others make. And one of them was retelling an incident where he was part of this trans-masc discord and had made a chat for other black trans-mascs to join and talk about their experience. And he had asked if even though they're not women, do they still identify with womanhood on some level? A lot of them agreed, and this was because they still felt a strong connection to black womanhood and the experiences gained from misogyny, because white womanhood is already set as the binary, so that connection they had still felt like a part of their nonbinary/trans identity. And apparently some white trans mascs were reading the chat Convo, and called them out, saying they weren't really trans if they felt that way. This was interesting to me, because I felt very similarly, but with indigenous womanhood contrasting the masculine gender I feel, but I wouldn't have been able to put that feeling into words until he had told that story. Which I think this type of nonbinary experience how very separate and "queer" it feels to have a gender separate from white culture's definitions.
In my heart of hearts, I cannot say that I "feel" like I have a gender, but I strongly identify with being a woman in society. It's like, if gender is a psychosocial construct, I lack the psychological aspect of gender but I have a social gendered identity. I think that people who are genderqueer but feel a lot of solidarity with others from a (different) gender understand this instinctively but it is pretty hard for anyone else. Definitely does not make someone less genderqueer or less trans masc or fem.
@@PBndJ I meant, I politically identify with womanhood and feel solidarity with women. We face similar hurdles due to society thinking we are women. In other words, feminism/women's rights is not just a progressive movement but a movement whose success directly relates to my quality of life. It's not that I identify to myself with womanhood. Not sure how the "you can't just decide to be an elephant" comment relates to what I'm saying since that's something one could say to anyone who's not cisgender.
I wonder how it can be even possible to completely disconnect yourself from womanhood once you have experienced it. I am a white nonbinary transmasc person. And I very much still identify with womanhood at a social level, because I've lived it for 23 years and I still live it. It is a part of my identity no matter how valid my gender is. Even when I take hormones and the world sees me as a man, it will still be a part of my identity. I will still be connected to womanhood and to all women. And I don't think there are any transphobic implications in that, it's simply the result of a patriarchal misogynistic society. (I do acknowledge your nuance tho and how the experience of and connection to womanhood and your gender must be quite different for non white transmasc people)
@@AurelUrban I understand this completely. We have been socialized as women for a long time, and sometimes mistreated for our perceived womanhood. The societal (mis)treatment does not completely leave one's psyche just because they are wrong about our gender.
@@PBndJ put it this way : i can identify with "Martin Luther King" , but i can't "be" Martin Luther King" I could feel like i am a similar person to MLK , or have similar ways of thinking , and I can call myself MLK , but MLK is just a 'label' representing the man .. and each MLK will be different , but the original MLK still stands the same .. unaltered. society can recognize people as "elephants" if society wishes (absurd as it is) .. but the label elephant is only a label and a 'creature' , human or animal is just whatever unique expression of the universe that it is , whatever label you give it >> you can dress it up, give it certain roles, modify it surgically .. and the elephant is just whatever it is with new roles and dress sense and surigical modification society is so hung up on labels , but the labels aren't the reality .... unless you believe in labels rather than the 'actual' existence and then you will probably have a modified view of the world when labels change but i think we are all (society) too hung up on labels instead of just being, and not judging and boxing in with labels for things and confusing that for reality
I always hated this image of non binary as exclusively being, let’s face it, white, afab and androgynous. That’s the image that’s been cultivated and every stereotype ends up doing my head in because it completely contradicts my experiences as a bigender genderfluid person and the experiences of the non binary people around me. We aren’t this monolith that companies want us to be, I think you really nailed the head with that. Companies want us to be a singular entity to market to us, the cooperate validation reminds me a lot of girlboss girl power capitalist feminism. It’s almost the exact same shit repackaged for a different audience
Not gonna lie, I feared this video was going to be shallow and dismissive of "either side" of this struggle. Not only was it not, it also went where almost no analysis of transness goes on the surface layer of "trans youtube" - race and nationality. Being a brazilian trans woman who makes practically no effort to pass beyond hormones - in fact dresses very androgynously on purpose - and yet is consistently and infallibly read as a woman, I feel like my own experience was taken into account in the making of this video. Subbed
How long have you been on hormones? I started at 19 and after 2 years, I've never been mistaken as a woman, and I don't think I'm really masculine. How do you pass effortlessly just on hrt?
As someone who is often sorted into the “binary transwoman” box, I am always baffled that the people for whom this sort of thing matters have such a difficult time wrapping around the idea that my *personal* choice to “assimilate” does not exclude me from *politically* supporting and fighting for the rights and means for anyone to transition however they chose. It makes talking about these kinds of things in online spaces so frustrating.
It's just because they hate real trans women and can't handle the idea that they're not really women if they don't want to fully transition, so they're completely dismissive of people with actual gender dysphoria
This is…. So important. The truth is, seeing nonbinary people as “non-medicalized” hurts us. A LOT. I remember searching youtube for some nonbinary (medical) transition options, and literally the first result was a psychologist telling nonbinary people that they shouldn’t transition because it’s a “SeRiOuS dEcIsIoN” and that we should be content with switching pronouns and presentation. Which is literally the opposite of what I want. I know that with the body that’s “ideal” for me, I’d probably still be seen as a man. And I don’t care. A lot of discussion of being nonbinary is confined to pronouns, the details of our identity and how we want to be perceived. But that’s to me the least important bit. And I feel like it’s such a useless discourse. What matters to me is the fact that I don’t even know if the transition that I’d want would be seen as “gender affirming” by insurance companies. And this, I’m sure, is not just a problem nonbinary trans people experience. There’s this weird idea that nonbinary people’s political demand is to “just be seen” and for society to have an identity X-ray vision. That’s not what I want. What I want is full bodily autonomy without barriers of medical gatekeeping, and capitalism. What I want is a world that you need not even be trans to modify your body in gendered ways. I want a world where cis women are be able to get girld*cks too, if they want! I want complete bodily autonomy and the decoupling of our access to our needs to some identity label.
@G Well, I'm a trans man and I don't fucking care wether or not an enby person is trans, they decide that. And the person to which you are replying to literally said they want to transition. You surely didn't read everything or payed attention because you clearly are very angry. All this person wants is for everyone to be able to access the procedures they want to make, and you know who benefits the most from it? Binary trans people. We are forced to go through so many steps just to prove ourselves to cis people, but if we, as bodily autonomous individuals could just say "This is what I want to do." and get the things we need...wouldn't that be better?
'A counterculture to a counterculture sometimes ends up looking exactly like the culture we're in' Okay yeah that line hit hard, but probably differently than you'd expect. I'm asexual, in the 'I'm not ever going to have sex ever' way. There's a part of the ace community that could be analogous to what you would call the nonmedicalized nonbinary side. That side is very loud about 'you can still be ace if you like sex', and that is true, but sometimes they take that so far that they'll repathologize people like me, glorifying sex, saying that I have to try it first, or that my sex-repulsion is a mental health issue that I should fix by desensitizing myself. And then I get framed as the conservative or the 'negative stereotype of asexuality' for existing the way I do, while I'm still just trying to get my right to not ever have partnered sex respected, which was the point of the ace community in the first place. I feel very erased and villified and pushed out of the ace community because of this. It is honestly traumatizing to have people within the ace community effectively tell me that I'm an unacceptable human being for not ever wanting sex. So yeah, I think that helps me understand the feelings you're having about the nonmedicalized nonbinary part of the trans community.
@@DrAbadie You're welcome to follow your own advice and stop leaving unkind messages to random people online. I'm sure you've got more productive things to do.
@@DrAbadie The fact that you're trying to insult me with the word virgin while at the same time claiming that society doesn't have a bias against asexuals is absolutely amazing to me.
yes I am in that exact same boat!!!! I'm a sex repulsed asexual and it hurts so much the way so many sex-neutral asexuals put us down and make us look like freaks.
Can I express going through the opposite experience here? As a sex-desiring ace, it's really disheartening coming into the community as there's a lot of negative discourse surrounding the desire to have sex, often equating the desire for sex with being allosexual which just... sucks
This reminds me so much of being kicked out of a “radical” queer space because I was trying to pass - which was deemed as Inherently Trans/Enby/Queerphobic to do It’s such a bizarre cultural divide and it helps no one when we tear one another down. Thank you, this video is super important
It's so annoying bc like looking at that list of 4 qualifiers that are used to define us as binary trans women, non-binary afabs can have all four of those and still have the complexities of their gender respected (I'm converting 'desire to pass' into 'being alright with being read as a woman in everyday life' and 'pursuing medical transition' into 'being happy with the parts of their body that are associated with femininity.') The real difference there is that we have to fight like hell to get to the place where they start, and the vast majority of people, including many of the queer community, will always see our relationship to femininity as fake simply cause we had to fight to get there and thus we weren't born into it. EDIT: Talking about trans femininity because that's my experience and comparing myself to afab nb people bc they're the people who are mostly in the same communities as me yet don't experience transmisogyny
Honestly, this is what happens when we let people in the community treat gender as some huge counter culture trend, rather than some ones personal identy. And frankly this whole demonization to those who want to pass or medically transition is just flat out transphobia, but "progressive"
Why Enby are valid and this is coming from a binary trans girl. You're part of the transgender community and should be love and accepted like anyone else.
Yeah, this is so true. Often they take it as if we are saying they and all other trans people should want & try to pass within the binary. That just is not true. They don't have to want or try to pass and that's awesome, they're still trans and I love them just as much any binary trans person but, I want to express myself this way and that should be okay too. Growing up wanting to be a girl, means I want to be a girl. Maybe I'm thinking too hard about it tho lol.
Two main thoughts, I think: 1. It's weird to me how much of this narrative is taken directly from conservatives (sometimes conservative trans women, like Blair White, but also often conservative cis people interested in sectioning off the trans community). The notion of the privileged, thin, passing binary trans women was never a representation of the majority of the community, it was an image created specifically to juxtapose against trans people regardless of identity and force them to conform. "Transtrenders" and "real trans people" have never been meaningful categories mapping cleanly along identity lines, and there's not really any reason to adopt a classification scheme created by people who's primary political interest is taking away our (and I mean *all* trans people) rights. 2. It seems to me like for a lot of people this "non-binary trans person" is supposed to represent a freedom from the kind of idealized images that identifying as a trans woman is supposed to come packaged with, but the act of position these two groups against each other requires making a lot of assumptions about the identity and life of both, not just "binary trans women." I talked about this a bit under another comment but in my experience the "non-binary trans person" here is often assumed to be AFAB and trans masc, to identify as lesbian, and so on. I mean "women and non-binary" as a phrase has already kind of become a meme because of how many spaces for "women and non-binary people" have no interest in allowing or representing AMAB non-binary people that aren't willing to identify with womanhood, which is something I've experienced first hand as an AMAB non-binary person who doesn't present as or identify as a woman. Just as the opposition between binary and non-binary trans people makes a lot of implicit assumptions about the identity and experiences of "binary trans women," it comes packaged with a very specific image of a "non-binary trans person" that I can't say I really feel represented by.
I mean, the reason the whole "women and nonbinary" thing exists is because of attempts to make resources that exist to help people who suffer as a result of being perceived as feminine in a misogynist world available to people that could use them while (clumsily) trying to respect their gender identity. An AMAB who doesn't present feminine would be treated as a cis man in most areas of their life, and thus wouldn't face the kind of discrimination that women and those regularly mistaken for women face when dealing with trying to advance your career, getting access to reproductive healthcare, etc. In short, they're not talking about you because you're not the kind of enby that needs the service they're trying to provide.
@@puppppppies Obviously no one is arguing that (most) AMAB people need access to abortion services. But there are also a lot of spaces and communities that present themselves as being in existence for people who aren't men when in reality they are only willing to harbor or accept a small proportion of non-binary people who have a certain assigned gender at birth and present themselves in a certain way, and they only accept those non-binary people insofar as they accept some identification with "womanhood" as an identity. No one is criticizing anyone for trying to create opportunities for people who deal with misogyny. They're (including lots of AFAB non-binary people who understandably feel as though their identity is being reduced to an extension of being a woman) criticizing them for being dishonest about the fact that these communities and opportunities are not and never were for non-binary people, and in the process reducing non-binary identity to an of course valid but highly specific kind of identity and presentation. As a side note, I'd appreciate it if you didn't make such specific assumptions about the lives and experiences of I and other AMAB non-binary people... it's kind of weird to claim that these terms aren't effectively reducing us to "women-lite" while implicitly saying that if we don't identify with womanhood we're functionally cis men.
Yeah whenever I see those “women and nonbinary only” events, I’m never sure if I’m welcome as a nonbinary masc person. I’m afab but that doesn’t matter to people if you “pass” as male anyway.
absolutely! and (though probably not as strong an ick) that makes the space feel very oppositional for afab non-binary people - it's as if afab non-binary people are okay, because in the minds of the people policing these spaces they're (we're? I'm still working myself out) essentially women, just confused about it. Doesn't feel particularly accepting
The unfortunate thing about gender being a social construct is that it is constructed... socially... And, as a fat trans woman who identified as genderqueer for a decade before deciding I wanted to pursue medical transition and live as a woman, I am regularly and consistently gendered in a way that excludes me from womanhood. I take up too much space to be a woman. I've always been astounded by how ignored size is when people discuss gender. This isn't a critique of your video, just a commentary on my experience.
This is interesting to read as an afab person who gained weight over the pandemic, particularly around my hips. When I look at myself sometimes I see one of those ancient fertility statues, and feeling like I look aligned w this symbol of womanly fertility, makes me really dysphoric. So one of my main transition goals atm, is to slim down my hips (and gain muscle on my arms and shoulders), so they don't make me associate that type of thing with myself. And reading your comment, got me thinking how in the current social construction of gender, thinness is a prerequisite for being taken seriously and having your identity respected. And it can effect cis people in similar ways too. It seems to be assumed that if you have more weight, you're not taking yourself seriously enough, you're not trying hard enough to be your gender, it's the "let yourself go" stereotype, and it's intensified for trans people
Wiser women than me have talked about how growing up as a trans person is inherently traumatic (even without consciously realizing one's gender) and I cannot help but think how many similarities there are to how growing up fat affects a person. I cannot honestly separate which parts of my experiences growing up can be attributed to having, in-fact, been a girl all along, and how much is because I was fat. I was "wrong" in more ways than one, and each of the wrongs made the other even more incriminating. The quotable question related to that would be: Are you allowed gender non-conformity when you are fat? Obviously you wouldn't be forbidden with that reasoning but they are inarguably two manners of defying social norms on a single person. You are encouraged to choose just one.
Well back when I was a fat cis woman (now i‘m nonbinary) i was also kinda denied my gender identity of woman weirdly enough. Fat women in general are usually painted as a genderless blob. So it‘s not just a problem with the trans women being dehumanized. It‘s also cis fat women.
Lily your work is a drink of cool water in a scorching desert of inane and meaningless gender theory. Once again you bring it back home, transmisogyny is at the root of so much of this fruitless discourse and you dissect it with such grace and precision. I really cannot express just how much I appreciate the things you make! I will definitely be joining the patreon!
thank you for saying this. It is plain to see that a lot of people in the trans community, (especially younger enbies) have not challenged their own internalized transphobia and transmisogyny. There are people in the trans community who insist that trans women are dangerous and constantly exclude us. Some nonbinary people even weaponize repackaged terf rhetoric against us, it's unbelievable. They need to unlearn hate
Your point about some non-binary people looking at medical transition as privileged or normative, even though it definitely isn’t, is so good…especially when you said that sometimes, counter culture against the counter culture just ends up looking like the culture we started with. As a trans man whose been on hormones for years, gotten surgery, legally changed my name and gender marker, etc, it’s very frustrating when I get told by non-binary people who have struggled through none of that and who largely present as their assigned gender at birth that I somehow have had it easier. To be clear: there is nothing wrong with not transitioning medically and I love my non-binary partner and friends! I am not a transmed. But you are completely right when you say that the general public’s opinion is that you don’t have to, or shouldn’t, medically transition. My medical transition was life saving for me, but was also one of the hardest things I’ve ever done, for a myriad of reasons, and I am not privileged or normative for doing so.
The problem is that most people on all sides of this issue seem to think that transition is a monolith. I’m a nonbinary trans guy, and I have been on T for five years. I am still often read as my assigned-at-birth gender despite this and a lot of trans men have straight up assumed I haven’t transitioned and don’t want to transition/don’t understand what people transitioning go through to simply because I’m nonbinary and because testosterone can’t make my curves go away. The privilege is the ability and willingness to assimilate and actively benefit from that assimilation, not the act of transition itself. Even “binary” trans people who fight to be read as their gender with medical procedures often still get misgendered. Even trans people who appear to have assimilated aren’t inherently benefiting from assimilation if they’re in fear for their lives while in stealth mode. These things are much more complicated than the idea that transition=privilege or lack thereof.
I've never heard that calling someone binary trans can be negative. When I use the term binary trans, it's usually only in education about trans people and the difference between those who identify within the binary and those who do not and/or identify in-between the binary (so, in my words, binary trans people and non-binary trans people). I only use it in an educational way, especially when trying to explain gender to someone who is just starting to learn, so I guess it makes sense that I've never heard the negative connotations with the term binary.
Same here, and maybe i've just never come across it but i gotta say i'm a little wary of someone who perceives binary trans as a negative thing, like that implies it's bad or something
I do know a LOT of cis people who understand and accept MtF and FtM transitions, but openly mock nonbinary people... while I think a lot of nonbinary people's aggression is completely misdirected, I understand how from where we're standing, a binary transition might seem easier. It's impossible for me to ever "pass" as my gender and it gives me a lot of frustration. I face an entire lifetime of being misgendered by anyone who doesn't know me, no matter how hard I try, and regardless of the pronoun pins I wear. This experience isn't exclusive to nonbinary people, of course, but it's common among those of us with social dysphoria around being gendered at all. That said the notion of "binary privilege" is absurd, and the idea of just not transitioning or changing yourself at all, just tacking "nonbinary" onto yourself is somehow more radical, is also absurd. I did see a lot of that in some of the nonbinary circles that I eventually left. (generally, these days, I reach out to specific nonbinary people I think are cool, rather than clinging to any notion of community, every time I've tried to be part of one, it's felt really hostile in a way I struggle to articulate.) Any mention of medical transition often had to come with a caveat that you didn't *need* to do it. Even though I did. I've also seen a growing number of nonbinary people who insist they ARE NOT trans, which is odd to me, considering the white stripe on the trans flag is for us, and as I believe you mentioned, transgender was a term specifically made to include us. I've always felt more welcome among transfems than in nonbinary or transmasc-specific spaces, despite being transmasc, I'm not really sure why. Great video, insightful and well thought out as always
I think it is worth observing that "binary privilege" seems to often be the privilege of gender conformity. Not conforming to gender (especially doing so in a specific way) is what might tip people on an individual being non-binary and perhaps facing associated bigotry.
Well as a binary Trans woman, I would love this binary privilege that everyone is talking about because I don't think I have it? Or it sure AF doesn't fell like I do! I have no problem with other binary and non-binary people. But if you're non-binary just say so. I think everyone is valid, "except cis people Fuck them" 😒 😂 no I'm kidding But really we need to stop fighting each other, this does nothing to help us.
@@maynardewm As a non-binary trans person who has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria and transitioned socially, legally, and medically... I disagree.
@@maynardewm I agree with you and also fall into the former group that OP mentioned. Luckily almost all the LGBT people I know feel the same, but online is a very different story.
Isn't transfem specially a term about nonbinary people who transition into femininity, how would their spaces be different than nonbinary spaces? aren't they the same?
When I came out as a nonbinary trans man - I had a popular nonbinary account drag me as a "binary-aligned nonbinary" and call me out by name for it... at this point I've just experienced so much gatekeeping and misgendering around what sort of identities I'm allowed to hold without contradiction, what sort of pronouns I'm allowed to use (he / him is too "binary"), and what sort of gender presentation I'm allowed to use *within nonbinary spaces* that I don't feel like connecting with that community or using that terminology anymore. I prefer "gender expansive trans guy" now because there's less of a moral / privilege class connotation with the term while conveying a similar feeling. I'll be honest, I kept my masculinity in the closet a lot longer and have procrastinated my medical transition for years because certain things were presented as "too binary" and even sometimes "patriarchal" and therefore off limits for me.
11:13 "The term binary trans people is sometimes used as a stand in for conservatives or assimilationists." "To be privileged is to be politically inferior, and to be repressed is to be virtuous." I'm finally watching this. Excellent work. I suppose the main thing I'd want to say about the term "binary trans." I am a transexual man. (Note: One "s" following the radical manifesto written by Sandy Stone). Many nonbinary people have called me a binary trans person. But I reject the term binary trans person as having anything to do with me. Why? Because I do not believe that gender is a binary. As I have going back to the trans conversations of the 1990s, I view gender as a spectrum not a binary. I may exist on one of the poles of that spectrum, but that doesn't make me binary. I can't be binary, because there is no binary. Other trans people deciding my identity is binary trans man, imposes upon me the idea that I support and believe in the truth of gender as a binary (which then makes me seen as the enemy of good and forward thinking trans people). But I don't, and I don't appreciate being framed that way by people I think of as being a fellow travelers. On the topic of intersectionality regarding race, one of the usual attacks on trans men is that trans men only transition in order to get male privilege. And of course it is better to be a trans man than it is to be a woman. But...I am black. Transitioning into black manhood did not make my life safer. It isn't great to be a black man under white supremacy. I once got to see Les Feinberg talk to a bunch of 1990s Genderqueers, who were disdainful of transexuals (what today would be framed as nonbinary vs. binary trans people). Les Feinberg, who was genderqueer, said to the group, "If you are going to fight that gender is a spectrum, then you must also defend the poles." That was a very important moment for me as a person who identified as on the poles...but 100% on the same spectrum as my genderqueer comrades. To fight for all of us on the spectrum, those on the ends and the middle, and then only to have those folks in the middle turn around and push me into the same camp, not as them, but as our collective oppressors...that...is very hurtful. Anyhow...I am a transexual man, but I do not support the notion of rigid binaries, and that includes the new binary/nonbinary binary.
the idea of nonmedicalized non transitioning non-binary is kind of new to me. I see some people like that on line, but it’s really different than the non-binary person I am and have met. Most of us are going though some sort of medical transition. Most of the feelings I have about binary trans people is that I’m worried they will think I’m a transtrender and then things about passing. Like after I under go the medical procedures I want and am in a body I am comfortable with I will be in more danger because I will be even more visible trans. I think this is something that’s really just a trans problem in general though.
I just haven't identified something physically with my body that makes me feel gender dysphoria. It doesn't change how my mind feels gendered, whether fluid or between the binary.
I've been giving truscum and transmeds grief IRL for almost 15 years, their ideas have certainly become much less popular over that time. I have no doubt you've had plenty of experiences that reinforce that fear, but I just want you to know that some of us have been fighting those dickheads years before Tumblr ever launched. Never met you, hope you feel loved anyway♥️
20:47 "Maybe in a perfectly equal world, I would *just* be a woman..." THIS. As a cis-gender woman, I relate to this so much. I find myself absolutely hate society's expectations of women, and more and more rejecting the idea of being one. Hope we can live in a world where there's no labels of any kind, where we are all just humans
I love hearing you speak, but I am watching this as a nonbinary person and this is new and jarring to listen to. I've sometimes referred to myself as a nonbinary trans guy (keyword being sometimes) but I have never used "binary" when referring to trans people who do identify with a "binary" gender nor do I assume that they're more privileged. I usually assume the exact opposite. This definitely gave me something to think about.
I watched on patreon and am commenting for the algorithm! it was so fascinating to see this binary/nonbinary conversation centered on transfeminine experiences! i think a lot of afab non-binary people (including me) experience a very particular power dynamic between themselves and assimilationist trans men. we then generalize that experience and assume that trans women who follow the transition steps discussed in the video occupy that same political and hierarchal position. firmly grounding the conversation in a transfeminine frame of reference reveals how unsuccessful afab people are when we attempt to generalize our intra-group conflicts in this way
Haha interesting topic cause I’m as binary as it get. Im a dance major who wants to do ballet and am femme. I don’t even identify as trans I just factually am one cause I’m amab and wish I was born a girl so deeply. Im on the road to total stealth and forgetting how I used to present and so far it’s friggin great cause mentally I’ve always been this way and I can finally stop feeling imprisoned.
Yay, Dance Major! I hope your program is treating you well. I was a dance major and have been out of school for a little while now, and I am just now exploring my identity, but I have a good friend who ended up dropping out of the same program I had done and a lot of it had to do with the fact that the school and many dance institutions still are not safe environments for trans people. I want to be a part of the change to get rid of transphobia in the dance world.
@@robbimoore9226 I’ve lucked out and have as supportive of a program possible :D The dance department head is super nice and excited with my ambition and is helping me at every turn to get me as far as I can. Thé theatre program in general is also super inclusive and we have tons of gnc people in it!
I really do hope this video acknowledges that binary trans people have fought hard to be seen as their binary gender, and that binary trans people can belong as much to that binary identity as a cis person! Those are just the worries that pop into my head as a binary trans person who's been invalidated a lot. That being said: I trust you to be nuanced, I'm sure I have nothing to worry about 😅 Looking forward to the video!!!
Why not watch it and find out? Unfortunately the way RUclips has implemented comments creates and incentive for people to make comments which ignore the substance of the video - such as by allowing comments before publication, inviting speculation, or by ranking comments by their likelihood of creating engagement, where all "engagement" is considered equally worthwhile, and voting for comments is like a game or a battlefield of opposing slogans and talking points rather than a way of identifying meaningful discussion. We need a "TS;DR" feature, as a start! But in answer to OP, at 29:50 the video argues precisely that demanding membership of a binary gender is inherently radical and is a hard-won right. But the video goes further: rather than simply recognising the liberation struggle of binary or non binary trans people, it explores how both embody the same contradiction within sexist ideology and the sexist oppression which it justifies. Although this contradiction manifests differently for different trans people, and sometimes generates different kinds of oppression, the principal aspect of the contradiction and the source of the primary antagonism is still male supremacy, as justified by sex essentialism, or in other words the reification of gender inequality. People feel the need to have their oppression seen and acknowledged. The same is true when it comes to acknowledging identity in and of itself. But oppression is not identity, it is a dynamic thing, and it is a result of conflict over material contradictions. These contradictions themselves arise from the way society is organised. Pure recognition, rather than being empowering, can sometimes cause people to treat non-antagonistic contradictions antagonistically. The oppressive primary contradiction (that is, sex essentialism and gender roles) gets taken for granted while people fight over how they relate to it. The point is to reject the principal aspect of the contradiction. With that said, secondary contradictions, such as the use of sexist ideology by both the assimilationist and the isolationist camps (the latter more perniciously), do matter. The correct way of solving these is not to ignore them, but to promote understanding, identify horizontal oppression, identify and criticise the use of sexist ideology and unite against the root cause of these secondary conflicts. The video does a good job of exploring how sexist ideology manifests in intra community discourse and the harm that results. It acknowledges the oppression faced by binary and non-binary trans people and the differences in how that oppression is reflected at an ideological level.
@@lunaumbra5179 I was talking to Lachlan, I actually upvoted your post because that was exactly what I wanted to know, too. Sorry if it came off as hostile and misdirected.
I've predicted before that while I am "non-binary" that even the language of "non-binary" could be eventually replaced, whether it's returning to genderqueer or finding other words or letting go of it all together, since "non-binary," as much as it has emotional meaning to me now, is a weird paradigm and has all of the problems you point out. Having been on the receiving end of hostility from "binary trans women" this conflict between non-binary and "binary" trans people feels artificial and painful. Not to mention that so many non-binary people now feel discomfort around using "trans" and there are even surveys like the (now infamous in NB online discourse) Williams Institute labeling nonbinary people as cis. 🤦 It's a struggle because I am not a man and I am not a woman. I've always felt disconnected from gender and having spent decades of self-exploration and working through denial, I am sure of this. I'm not a man, but I'm not a woman. And I would be happier and more content with some avenue of being recognized and using only gender neutral pronouns. Culture is not static and is meant to change, but creating more boxes for myself and everyone else is not what I ultimately want. Edit to add: You've described so many aspects of trans spaces online that have bothered me. In past videos, and this video. I'm really impressed with how insightful and well crafted your arguments are. Good work.
Have you looked into the term agender? I'm sure you have, since you said you've looked around. Nonbinary didn't fit quite right with me either. Eventually I settled on agender and it feels much more like who I am. I try to spread the word on agender because it's usually overlooked or never talked about, but through comments and such I see a lot of people who would relate to it. Not saying you will, but I always wanna spread the word :P
@@TwixtheFox Yes, I relate to agender, but many people consider agender under the bigger nonbinary umbrella since generally non-binary is conceived as "not the binary" and encompasses a lot of different identities (not as a third gender - which is how it's often depicted in cis media, unfortunately). I've thought of introducing myself as agender, but go back and forth on it for personal reasons. There are also "gender apathetic" people, which I really used to relate to, but then as I grew older I feel less apathetic about being seen as a man or woman and more inclined to be seen as neither. I just keep in mind that descriptions and terms are fluid since culture itself is in flux and people find new and different ways to describe themselves, especially since a sense of self has so many different personal and individual facets to it.
@@TwixtheFox I should also note that (strictly personally speaking) it's not exactly that non-binary doesn't "fit" for me. In a technical sense, it works as a description. I'm middle-aged, so I've lived through a lot of different terminology in queer spaces. But, related to this video, rigid categorizations of gender in general feels troubling. To me, it seems to replicate a lot of typological thinking (which has roots in the Euro colonial era), rather than describing some kind of inherent truth about human diversity. It doesn't even feel particularly useful sometimes. A lot of people seem to latch onto queer terms as defining something of immutable and being all important, when it's really just words people create to describe something more abstract and complex. In other words, the words can change as much as we want while the people underneath remain the same and deserve respect regardless. So it is troubling to see a lot of division and hostility around gender conformity in trans spaces online.
Can I just say that I am so glad to have stumbled onto your page? I really appreciate your nuanced approach to these topics and as someone who has felt left behind by much of the disk horse and conversations surrounding trans women, I feel such a kinship with your words. Really hoping to get to a point where I can afford a subscription to your Patreon.
The whole video, I kept thinking of Leslie Feinberg's call to assimilationist "transsexuals" to come out as "transgender" as part of the fight for gender and queer liberation in "Transgender Liberation." Especially Feinberg's framing of our community as a movement against cissexism and heterosexism using a collective action framework, as opposed to an individualized identity framework. It's frustrating to me that while the term transgender was popularized as a term separate from the pathologized and medicalized "transsexual" label that included anyone who transgressed the gender binary, but as you observe, some people have seemingly reduced it down to a politically correct synonym for transsexual and a medicalized identity again. And the fact that using medication to burst open the sex binary isn't seen as radically expansive like Harraway's Cyborg Manifesto, but characterized as conformist makes me feel how deeply neoliberalism as infected our online spaces and systemic analysis and collective action is not even imaginable. It also got me thinking about your discussion on MOGAI paired with Torrey Peters' metaphor of the juvenile elephants - that so much of the current generation of, especially white, trans and non-binary people have come to their understanding individually online without a community to ground or mentor them in our history and collective action. I also had to laugh a bit thinking about how I might be characterized by some. I explicitly identify to people as a non-binary, genderqueer, and genderfluid trans woman (though to introduce myself that way is a bit silly! :D ). But I am definitely gendered or have gender attributed to me as a man or woman most the time. I have to explicitly voice that queerness for anyone to know it. And it was actually an even bigger obstacle pursuing hormone replacement therapy in a way that wasn't predicated on a the transition pathways or narratives of being in the wrong body and wanting to pursue complete sex reassignment. Access to gender-affirming care has often been gatekept by cis people presuming a person wants a transition across the binary rather than as a way of living bodily autonomy. I'm ranting, but my trans womanhood is definitely not binary and my non-binariness is inherently trans to me. I'm ranting, but just wanted to reflect some thoughts and affirm so much of this from my own experience because you've expressed it all so well!
What could talk about in your final paragraph about Cis people gatekeeping medical transition reminds me of my distaste for the term gender confirmation surgery. People to not typically get that surgery to confirm their gender, as genitals do not dictate gender. People medically transition because they want to. Perhaps to be comfortable in their body, perhaps to alleviate dysphoria, perhaps to gain euphoria, and many other potential reasons. But usually not to confirm gender. Similarly, I heard a voice training therapist say that she helps Trans people make their voices sound the way that confirms their gender- as someone who intends to undergo voice training lessons someday, this explanation annoys me. I want my voice to sound more feminine and I identify as a woman, yes, but I do not want my voice to sound more feminine to make me feel like a woman- I know I am a woman. I want my voice to sound more feminine because that would make me feel more comfortable.
I really like your comment. I wish we could have more intra-community discussion about medicalization, outside of the arguments of terfs and conservative media. I still think it's a nuanced subject that we as a community should neither condemn nor normalize without question, because although surgery and hormones have radically challenging results to the gender-sex system (and I need to read that Harraway book), they don't always originate from radical intents, and I think there's a lot of "socially and mediatically-fostered dysphoria" we need to adress and dismantle. Hormones and surgeries are also things that are sold to us as marketable individuals and communities, even after we're attacked for pursuing them. I don't want to be misconstrued as advocating for medical gatekeeping, as I think we should have the individual right to choose any treatments we find necessary, but I would also like to bring this argument inside the community without sounding like a "binary-hating" enby person.
I know I've commented here before like twice I am literally a crazy person but I have more thoughts on this: there's really intense medical gatekeeping around non-binary people that I feel is very rarely acknowledged, and I wonder if a consequence of the emphasis on non-binary identities being valid even if they don't desire to transition is that the concrete reality non-binary people face regarding things like Informed Consent for SERMs, finding endocrinologists knowledgeable about more diverse kinds of transition, etc is overlooked. I think that like for "binary" trans people the notion that transitioning is the default for non-binary people is incredibly wrong. People *don't* want us to transition. There is extreme, systematic exclusion of non-binary people from transitioning, from even finding basic information regarding their options for transitioning, and so rarely is this discussed or talked about or fought back against. There is *one* medical paper I have found attempting to research the efficacy of kinds of non-binary transition, and it was published this year. Even finding photographic references is basically impossible. It's a shame to me that so much discourse online ignores our dire material reality in favor of presenting transition as "assimilationist," or "less non-binary," like it isn't a basic human right we're often entirely denied.
I feel this. Lately I’ve been trying to find visual references for non-flat top surgery, and I’ve had to sift through an insane amount of information just to find crumbs that are adjacent to what I’m looking for. My chest dysphoria isn’t less intense just because I want a non-traditional surgical result. There’s so little information available to me, and on top of that, I feel like the non-binary spaces I’ve seen don’t put enough emphasis on supporting people who want to explore the possibility of non-traditional medical transition.
I'm a trans woman, once I said I was trans and a cis person responded with "wow, the Testosterone is working wonders" I never been so confused in my entire life, I felt offended and at the same time kind of praised because I find many trans men beautiful and I like to be considered pretty but omg I never been so stunned in my entire life.
@@leonabarfield1560 The idea that a male bodied person is a man and vice versa is not an inherent fact of existence that people have to overcome it’s a construction of heteronormative capitalism
So obviously this is very dependant on context, tone, etc. but as a trans woman as well, the times I have been mistaked as trans masculine kind of had me glowing. Like despite being 6ft tall and having forgotten to shave that day, you misgendered me (accidentally, not maliciously) thinking I was AFAB? I will take that compliment.
@@mayabombanation9914 you get misgendered because they think you look male, and you're happy they think you're afab? Sweety they don't understand being trans that well, they're just saying you look like a man, like the testosterone is working well..
This was really great and I am excited to see your next video, that topic is really interesting to me! //Gender oversharing lol As a queer person living uninsured and under the poverty line, I feel like my gender is constantly in an internal crisis mode- medically transitioning is just not on the table for me. If I have the money to go to doctors I'm going to spend it on my tooth aches or weird lumps or my carpal tunnel syndrome before I can get to my gender. I've called myself a trans man, non-binary, non-binary transman, genderqueer, genderfuck- but my main experience of gender never changes. I'm still gendered as a woman, treated as a woman, oppressed as a woman, no matter what's in my twitter bio or what my friends call me or what pronouns I use. It's exhausting. I've had people tell me that if I was truly a binary trans man I would transition no matter what the cost. At the end of the day, I feel like the trans experience- non-binary or otherwise- heck, the *gender* experience, can't be defined by how we are oppressed.
I really love this video. I'm a trans man but I cannot say I identify with the binary in any sense. I am not a binary man because the binary will never view me as a man because I am trans. I am a man outside of the binary. Transness itself is transgressive of the binary because one of the main features of the binary is rigidity.
*raise hand* i'm a trans man and i identify with the binary tho.... what makes me less of a binary man than a cis man? some made up rules? you do you tho bro i support you 🤙
Not going to lie, I saw the title and came here expecting to grab my torch and pitch fork, but this was an incredibly well thought out discussion about the gender binary. I personally think of myself as a fairly "binary" trans woman. That said, my understanding of my gender is still fairly in its infancy, I've only been in the process of questioning and transition for about a year. That being said, I am well aware that I don't fully fall into the traditional "white woman" stereotype. And I'm ok with that. Several times throughout the video, I had thoughts about what you were saying, but you then immediately addressed it as I was going to start a comment to log the thought, which is saying something about your writing style (hint: it's really good). Your points about how gender differs quite a bit even from culture to culture was excellent. Gender is this wiggly wobbly amorphous blob that everyone falls somewhere in or outside of, and that's great. But the strict gender binary is what hurts everyone. It is what prevents everyone from being able to express themselves in the ways they want to, it keeps people in rigid roles in society, it enforces a divide between people that honestly isn't there. You said it well when you talked about how trans people show just how not that far apart the binary was, given that we are able to transition. People need to be able to just express themselves how they want, as the gender they feel themselves to be. Which, honestly, is a wiggly wobbly blob of a huge variety of thoughts, feelings, expressions, experiences and more. Trying to ascribe a binary to that is harmful and absurd. Great video, and I'll definitely be watching some of your other videos, and looking forward to new ones!
I won't be able to catch the premiere but I'm watching it the second I can. This channel is probably one of the best things I've discovered on the internet this past year, and it's amazing that these videos manage to tackle the topics they cover so well. I have no doubts this too will do the topic justice, which is great because it has been on my mind a *lot* recently.
i feel like 'the politics of everybody' is good reading for people who want to follow the particular rabbithole involving identity as a stand-in for politics. it certainly helped me contextualise a lot of the intracommunity bickering (as a binary trans man) also, i tried to read the alex v green post but its locked behind a paywall :( is it available somewhere else? google is not helping
Thank you, I'll have to give it a read! The post isn't accessible elsewhere, but I highly recommend her other writing, lots of which you can find for free.
Great video! I’ve always found it frustrating that non-binary people are treated as some homogenous block. The only thing we have in common is Not Being Something.
I'm gonna preface this by saying this message is STUPIDLY long and very personal. If you don't read it, that's okay by me. I just wanted to share just how much your channel means to me and just how much you've helped me. I'm still relatively young, (mid-teens) so I apologize if the writing's a little choppy or flows weirdly in some parts. If you decide not to read the monster I've written, that's alright. I just want you to know that you have done so, so much good for me and changed my life SIGNIFICANTLY for the better. Thank you. This is just me pouring my heart out into my keyboard and hoping it leaks through well enough to be legible. Sorry in advance. I've been relatively comfortable in my identity and sexuality for as long as I can remember, but your channel has taught me so much more about the depths those concepts can go to. About the people I interact with on a daily basis, the friends who I talk to and am still growing up with, and almost every aspect of my world and the people in it. It's been so amazingly enlightening to be able to have multiple perspectives on certain issues, or even just the everyday life and history of who we are. Like many others, I discovered your channel through your retrospective on MOGAI, and it seems absolutely insane to me that your channel isn't VASTLY more popular. You create some of the most high-quality and amazingly made content I've ever seen, from this platform or otherwise. I genuinely can't put into words just how much your videos have struck a chord somewhere within me, how you manage to deliver so much important information in such a masterful way that it keeps me glued to my screen. I've struggled with severe ADD all my life, and yet you manage to keep me *hooked* on every single word, on every topic, every issue, every person, and every story you cover. Somehow, you have managed to singlehandedly rekindle my love of learning. Something the school system stole from me, that I've been without for so, so long. From the bottom of my heart, thank you *so much* for all that you do. You have showed me so much depth into so many topics, so many people, so much important history of our past and our origins that I had no idea I even needed to learn about. I mean, I despise writing, and I somehow managed to write all of THIS in one sitting. I guess it comes easier when it's about something I genuinely care about. You and your channel have given me a whole new view on learning. That maybe I need to get up and get out there and ask those questions I've always been too disillusioned with the education system to ask. That maybe learning can someday be fun again, I just need to find what I really care about in order to enjoy learning about it. That maybe there's so much to this world I'll never be able to know, and that maybe, that's okay. You don't know everything. I *definitely* don't know everything. But by showing me that there's still so much to learn, so much interesting and important history tucked away in every little slice of this world, so much crucial information that could be just sitting, boxed up in some forgotten corner of a nowhere town's library, waiting to be discovered, you have given me the motivation to go out there. You have given me the motivation to actually get off my ass and *do something about it* instead of abusing self destructive vices to numb the pain of my past mistakes and watching the world go to hell from my bedroom window. You've shone a light into this dark slump of nothing and utter despair I've been stuck in for so, so long. You've given me something back I thought I had lost forever. You've given me so much to keep going for, so much reason for me to keep living. You've made me realize that my life has *so much more potential* than I ever could've imagined. Why would I waste away here, when I could go out and learn things of my own, and maybe even help others do the same? Why should sit in despair as I watch my world burn, instead of looking for a way to help fight the fire? Why should I do nothing with myself, when you have given me so much reason to go and make something memorable of my life? And you know what? Even if I *do* go to that nowhere town and search every corner of that library, even if I *do* go to the furthest reaches of abandoned kingdoms and dead empires that used to be teeming with such intense life, even if I *do* travel to the most desolate reaches of the ends of the earth on my quest for knowledge, I might come up empty handed. I might not find anything I really care about. I might find nothing I really love. But if I do, and if that happens, well... at least I'll have a hell of a story to tell the ones who'll listen. And for that, and for you, Lily, I am eternally grateful. Thank you so, *so* much. I hope you have a wonderful life. 💗💜💙 p.s. I wanted to add this after finishing the video, (since I wrote this... thing... when i was about halfway through) but this isn't at all limited to your gender related videos in the slightest. no matter what you feel like making a video on or talking about, there will be those of us who will always want to listen. I'm glad you're branching out to something different now, even though I found you due to the gender stuff, as i know that can get really tiresome to talk about, especially in such detail as you've been. i'm really excited to see what you have to say next time!
I can’t tell you how much this means. I spun out in college and barely lasted a year, so a lot of this project has been me rekindling a passion for learning. I’m glad to hear it did the same for you. Thank you, genuinely!
As a genderfluid afab person, I want to thank you for this video and your take. You're spitting nothing but facts the whole time. I think there's also something to be said about watering down on the non-binary experience to white, androgynous, "they/them", and afab, and how that harms the entire community, even people who technically fall under the non-binary label but don't self-identify as it (like me and a lot of my friends). By labelling our fellow trans people in any way, we're literally do the very thing that cishet society has done to us our whole lifes.
I love this video! Your closing thoughts about not making videos about this topic for a while really reminded me of Jesse Gender's new video on burnout. How as trans people we become experts about ourselves out of necessity to survive, and the more we push back on misinformation, these same pieces of rhetoric keep coming back from different places, overwhelming us to the brink of exhaustion. While I do love every video I've seen of you discussing gender, I think I'd be equally happy with a video discussing any topic you choose. Above all, please allow yourself the space and time to rest from these topics. They're worthwhile to have for sure, but can be very overwhelming if we don't take care of ourselves.
Honestly the developments around creating an image of what being non-binary looks like continue to fascinate me. I think that a lot of people tend to forget that the majority of queer labels didn't come from communities banding together to describe a mutual experience but a process of othering and exclusion, in other words we weren't described by what we are, but by what we were not. I think the inherent ambiguity in that way of defining us is really interesting, because it actually doesn't provide much clarity at all as a definition, and few labels are quite as explicitly unclear as non-binary. Yes, there's something to be said about how the term, by using the concept of a binary in order to be defined, carries the assumption that the idea of a binary is an important thing to be distinguished from, but aside from that it's quite literally a free-for-all. It's without boundaries, and that means that it might even be inaccurate to call it an identity, because the sum total of what that identity would mean would be "not that other identity", and that's how I experience the term, a description that would be weird for me to call that my identity. And that's why I find the creation of this non-binary image so fascinating. Like, I know people who do identify as non-binary, not as some vague gesture in the general direction of their identity (like my experience). I want to make it clear that I no way think "they're wrong about what non-binary means" or any of that nonsense, I just find it cool that this difference in experience exists. I will say that the idea that non-binary exists solely as an identity for people is harmful though, and is where reductions like calling non-binary a third gender come from. These are attempts to bound something that isn't meant to be bounded, and whether they come from wanting simple answers to the question "what does non-binary mean?", or a capitalistic desire to treat being non-binary as a demographic to be commodified and sold to, they are something to be pushed back against. We shouldn't shoulder the burden of giving others an easy way to understand us, especially when our defining label is one given to us that simply says "you aren't us, and that's important".
Wow it feels like the community discussion around being nonbinary or binary differs a lot between trans masc and trans femme communities Edited for spelling
Great video. After the 'radical' queer period and the 'assimilationist' gay rights period, came the present situation, in which it is very difficult to differentiate the radical and the assimilationist elements of LGBTQ+ activism. Non-binary identities are both old and new. They have been around for ever, but up until recently people wouldn't think of demanding their recognition by the state and society at large. People sort of lived double lives and didn't really consider the possibility of extending aspects of LGBTQ+ subculture into everyday life. This impulse can lead to great things, or it can just create a new consumer demographic and a constituency controlled by some phony corporate influencers. People who place themselves in the radical/woke side of the divide without organizing politically will end up being as assimilationist as their 'problematical' counterparts, if not more.
I transitioned long enough ago that non-binary wasn't really the term of art being used, and at the time I didn't even have a personal comprehension of what being non-binary actually entailed. One interesting thing that I've noticed over the last decade is that what *is* or *isn't* considered binary within the trans community has shifted quite a bit, and where my identity used to "be" firmly in the binary camp, these days it seems to be more ambiguous, and changeable with respect to other people's definitions -- and I'm not sure I particularly like the idea of my identity being recontextualised at the whim of what someone else thinks is in fashion, or out of fashion.
I related a lot to the way you talked about your gender, which I didn't expect lol. I'm AMAB and present pretty masculine, but due to being gay and autistic I've always had a very complicated relationship with masculinity, as if long ago I had been banished from manhood for being such an outlier and forced to exist on its outskirts, in a no man's land kinda, disconnected from mainstream society. 'Nonbinary' is a label I've tentatively embraced as a result for the last five years or so, since the age of 16. But I've always struggled a lot to relate to other nonbinary people, since to me it's not a matter of craving a more gender nonconforming presentation, feeling somewhere between womanhood and manhood on the gender spectrum (what does that even mean, honestly?), getting dysphoric at being gendered as a man... for me it's not like that at all, it's just that I've been time and time again so alienated from manhood by other guys due to my autism and my gayness making me fail to conform to the masculine ideals set up for me by society, that I basically just gave up, and as I did I unconsciously started conceptualizing myself as something different than a man (well, not exactly, what I said before about feeling as if I had been exiled to the outskirts of manhood encapsulates better how I feel about it). If I understood correctly you're also tentatively embracing the nonbinary label for similar reasons, not because the term itself or the idea of being somewhere between womanhood and manhood resonate that much with you. You also said that until releasing this video, you had only told a handful of close friends about it and that you didn't feel any drive to start announcing yourself as nonbinary, change your pronouns, etc. Well, same for me. 'Nonbinary' is a label that has been a part of my identity for almost a quarter of my life, but it's always been so in a private and personal way. And that's also why I agree with you this idea of binary privilege and nonbinary oppression is absurd: I'm not the most privileged person in the world, not by any means, but the oppressions I have to deal with aren homophobia and ableism, not enbyphobia, let alone transphobia. I don't conceptualize myself as cisgender, but neither I do as transgender, I truly don't think it is my place to claim that label (nor does the idea of claiming it appeal to me in any way), my life is undeniably much more similar to the life of a gay, autistic cisgender man than to the life of a gay, autistic transgender person, and transphobia is something I've never had to deal with on my entire life not once, which doesn't sound much like the life experience of a trans person. The idea of "binary privilege" has never made any sense to me because of this, it's obvious to me that from the moment that there're people like me how are nonbinary but are universally taken as a cisgender guy, there's no way my gender puts me on a more oppressive situation than that of a trans person who is often or always taken as a trans person. Also, I still benefit from sexism (maybe to a much lesser extent than a neurotypical straight guy, but I still benefit either way). And in a way, I think that makes a man, no matter how alienated do I feel from manhood. I don't think people are what they feel they are, people are what they are. I'm a person who benefits from male privilege. Therefore, a man, in some way. I'm a person who feels extremely alienated from the male genre and who isn't a woman. Therefore, nonbinary, in some way. And this is why I've also identified a lot with your last bit in the video. As I've said I'm not trans, but even I feel like our current notions of what a nonbinary person is and what a "binary trans person" is aren't good for me. I feel like they leave little room for all the nuances that I'm trying to encapsulate in this comment (for example saying that in some aspects, like how the power dynamics of patriarchy effect me, I'm undeniably a man, something that if said by "a binary trans woman", Natalie Wynn for example, would earn her a lot of harassment and accusations of transphobia (which I find ironic since she's the one who is trans and I'm literally not, I really don't get how some people could get the idea that someone like me would suffer more enbyphobia than a "binary trans person" suffers transphobia).
Really appreciated hearing takes from a transfem! I’m transmasc so I usually see takes from that perspective. I really liked the point you made about “womanhood not being a monolithic experience.” I actually think this ties in nicely for transmasc experiences as well! I’ve had lots of people tell me that trans men can’t experience unique oppression due to being a man and that trans men have male privilege, but that ignores SO MUCH intersectionality! How can one experience male privilege if they’re not stealth? Many of us will never pass, what then? What about a closeted trans man? Many people, even trans people, want to split gender up into this like man vs. woman type thing, a la “if trans women don’t have male privilege then trans men must have it.” But that’s not right. Male privilege is super complicated. A part of it, for example, is not having people, like, catcall you on the streets. But I’ve had people do that, I still feel very unsafe walking alone at night, even though I usually pass as a man now. Disabled men also would not have the same experiences with male privilege that abled men do. They’re still men, but it’s such a different experience that you can’t just make blanket statements like that. I think in general, the trans community itself resists blanket statements and binaries. I don’t remember where I saw it, but once I saw someone say that every trans person can either be categorised as a ‘scary man’ or a ‘helpless woman’ depending on which is more useful for a transphobe. And I think that’s really true.
I loved this. I feel like much of the transgender spaces I've had access to are centered around the ideals of acceptance and representation. I appreciate your more materialist angle in discussing these topics. Also, I'm really glad you'll be doing your next video on something you're passionate about that maybe is less heavy/stressful to cover! Looking forward to it :)
I'm only halfway through and you've made me ask a question beyond "general trends" that I've never asked myself. And it should've been so obvious to me lol So instead of "women are typically [this or that]": what can you say about *every* woman and yet about *no* man? nothing really, it's just interconnected subjectivity. There's no objective womanhood or manhood. The only thing I could say for sure about a woman I don't know is that they're a woman. Whatever the heck that even means, right?
I want to pick your brain a little bit if you don't mind, but before I go any further I just want to assure you that this is not meant to be transphobia. I'm literally a trans guy myself, I'm just an extremely skeptical one and I try to listen to all viewpoints about transgenderism as a whole, I think that's so important. I have to give this disclaimer because I've gotten blocked by people before who see me asking questions and get freaked out. So please understand that. I just want to ask you a question, I don't hate trans people lol (again, I am one). I saw this comment and I'm wondering what you think about the "b-b-but chromosomes" argument. If you're aware of Contrapoints in one of her videos she discusses this and if I can recall, her response was that chromosomes can't be a classifier of gender because we weren't aware of them until 1882, and obviously gender existed before that and people were men and women before that. That's all well and good, but I saw a comment on Reddit once talking about this, and it brought up the point that we also used to think that the Earth was the center of the universe, but that doesn't mean that it ever was, so why are chromosomes any different. And I have to admit that's not a bad point. You say there's nothing we can say about every woman and no man; I guess this is my long-winded way of asking if that's really true. If someone were to tell you that it doesn't matter how I perceive someone's gender, whether they're trans or not, the *objective* truth is that their gender is what their chromosomes are, how would you respond to that? How would you respond to a person that's able to separate all the social elements of gender and perhaps even hermaphroditism from their chromosomes?
@@Lamsus854 chromosomes truly have nothing to do with gender. you can be born with xy chromosomes and be afab and you can be born with xx chromosomes and be amab. i was born with xxy chromosmes and that doesnt inform my gender identity.
What can you say about every women and yet about no man? Truly a nuanced way to look at it. I can't even say that "every woman is a woman and no man is a woman" because there are plenty of non binary identities like bigender, genderfluid, etc, that include being both either simultaneously, partially or sometimes one and sometimes the other. So really, a woman is a woman, but a man can be a woman. Even the word itself is not 100% self-referencing.
@@Lamsus854 You can't be asking that for real, if you don't understand the difference between sex and gender then that's the first effort you have to make. I struggle to believe you're a trans guy if you don't understand something so basic, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You should give it more thought.
Thoughts before this comes out: I interpret "binary trans" as a person who is trans but doesn't identify as nonbinary. I'm sure that's a typical definition. And then aren't most trans people binary? Or at least it seems like more identify as such than self-identify as NB.
Maybe separating trans between non-binary and binary was a mistake? Aren't all trans ppl breaking the gender binary that was imposed on all of us, by the sole fact of their existence, of their lives, of their realities ?
@@jess3162 I mean, what you're saying isn't in contradiction with what I'm saying. Yeah you can just be a trans woman minding your own life and just having fun, your existence is still outside of the gender binary regime, doesn't mean either that you're not recognized and simply living as a woman, but you transitioned to get to that point, which isn't something that's supposed to happen in this system, thus already breaking the binary whatever is on your mind! And I think I don't need to tell you that this cissexist system wasn't and will never be made with a place for trans women, even the most so-called "binary" ones.
@@DrAbadie Yeah I sometimes think that too. Like that being trans IS defying the gender binary, as are trans-adjacent things like GNC and cross-dressing.
@@DrAbadie I feel it's a kind of unfair assertion, since binary trans people still have social categories / ways of thinking to fall back on or strive for. You (in general) have a goal, while for nonbinary people it's impossible to be treated by their gender is socienty, no matter what, not to mention that binary genders are naturalized and nonbinary genders are often portrayed as "made up"
@@Cherry-ki3ln I really sympathize with that struggle, but trans women are told far too often that we will never meet the goal. And we don't all have the same goal, its not the same fixed point on a spectrum that we are "striving" for. I know there are so many assholes who do not even believe in gender identity beyond the binary, and that does suck. However, many of those same people hold the belief that you can never transition and that your birth gender and assumed chromosomes are your destiny. Still, that's not even scratching the surface of people who support trans people but still have implicit biases against them. In what way would that lived experience even begin to be upholding the structures of the gender binary.
Thank you for saying that no one is truly binary. I have never bought into the concept of feminine traits and masculine traits. People are individuals and display individual traits.
and there are people who are so self evidently at one end of the spectrum that questioning the purity of their identity is not good allyship. it is very invalidating for someone to tell you they know you more than you know yourself and as LGBTQ+ people we have all been traumatized by this same kind of criticism and internalized the abuse. if there are people who identify as binary then there are binary people.
Good point. I agree that people should identify they way they feel most comfortable. I just don't want people to feel they have to behave in a certain way because of the gender they have been assigned.
@@DanaTheInsane I think it is harmful to say that traits are inherently masculine or feminine, but since as a society we do that, are you saying that there are people with only masculine traits and people with only feminine traits? I’ve never met any.
I’m a cis-bi mom to an agender lesbian; a cis bi daughter; a non-binary, heterosexual child; and a I’m a daughter to my mom who is cis-asexual. (Say that five times fast.) lol I really appreciated this whole video and look forward to you both further contact about gender and sexuality as well as art and other things of interest!
I like how you give so much historical context to your topics. On that note, I think ww2 especially reinforced the gender binary. People in the west were desillusioned and looked for "natural" order to build morals of off, and men had a leg up, because they had fought and died. Overall, I feel like this shows how "privilege" is really useful as a system descriptor and to vent frustration, but also a conversation ender that clashes with our idea that all opinions and experiences hold the same worth. I think we need to get better at using the term. The note on marketing is interesting, and yeah, I mostly see brands in economically safe positions pander to the lgbt community, good point. I'm not very anti-kapitalist, but I'm interested in what you do next and I'll find some middle ground for myself. Thank you once again for putting all of this together.
There's a lot of interesting points in this vid! The counter counterculture section put into words something I've been thinking about for a while too. 'To feel power instead of taking power' was pretty illuminating, so much of the way I've been told to be queer since I've come out is VERY performance based, based in the known 'culturally valid' methods of expressing queerness. I want the world to change so I can sincerely get into where I want to be without needing to be acting out a sort of cultural carnival of materialism and drag race catchphrases. Or somewhere where queerness doesn't have to be this unrealistically extraordinary existence, to celebrate the everydayness of the self.
I hear that for sure! I’m really liking living a boring life lately lol, tho I think on the lesbian end of the spectrum there’s less expectation to be really outgoing and extravagant
Dunno I guess I've always defined 'binary trans woman' as 'a trans woman whose gender identity is woman'. For me it doesn't have any of those other assumptions you named in the video tied to it. I don't think you have to transition in order to be a binary trans woman. In my experience, binary trans women don't tend to be conservative AT ALL. Maybe I'm just not as involved in the same spaces/conversations you are, but yeah no as a nonbinary person, I don't think I'm on a different political 'side' than binary trans people. That hadn't really occurred to me. Unless that binary trans person is Kalvin Garrah, Caitlyn Jenner or Blaire White, then yeah. Or maybe that's because I'm a (medically and socially) transitioning nonbinary person so that already puts me closer to the cultural idea of a binary trans person? But I'm really really not that either, because I'm one of the 'neithers'. (Simplified but you've got nonbinary people who are 'both' 'neither' 'in between' 'fluid' or 'something else entirely'.) I guess it is true that I clash with the people who are like 'we should completely demedicalize trans-ness, hormones over the counter for everyone who wants them' and I'm just sitting here like 'Mmmkay but then how am I going to access top surgery? I can't get one of those over the counter. And who's going to do hormone level checkups?' For me the binary/nonbinary divide is mainly just about whether your gender identity is binary, but it's also partially about giving in to trans people who hate on nonbinary people. Like, 'oh you don't want me in your community? That's okay, I've got my people here in mine'. Nonbinary people are my people. That's my community. I relate to other nonbinary people on a level I don't relate to anyone else. I feel safe with them in a way that I don't in the general trans community. I know they GET it. So I'm not on board with 'well but nobody is really binary' because that means 'everyone is a little nonbinary,' including cis people, which means I lose that community. It's like the 'everyone is a little autistic' thing. Like no. Having a couple of traits does not make you 'a little autistic'. It's a neurodevelopmental thing, not a 'couple of traits' thing.
I understand the feeling of wanting your own community where you feel safe, and in many cases it's even necessary for safety from society, even physically, let alone feeling safe in your own head. However this situational need doesn't inherently undermine the fact that the gender binary itself is a bit of a constrictive concept for everyone, it doesn't encapsulate anyone's biological or experiential reality fully, whether they identify with or pass as one or the other exclusively or not. Likewise, neurotypicality is just that: what is typical. Nobody is fully developmentally 'standard' either, even those we presently classify as neurotypical. Biology is messy, and human experience is even messier. 'Medicalization' or lack thereof is a discussion that is presently tied to our current capitalistic industrial system that requires a state to intervene to grant its citizens whatever resources it deems them worthy of, so I think it's important to keep in mind what parts of 'medicalization' people are likely rejecting when they state such objectives. It means dealing with more middlemen between the product and the consumer when something is 'medicalized', and more teeth behind the social stigma associated with it. More avenues for their self-actualization to be roadblocked when the conversation shifts and it's suddenly more or less popular to allow for a certain type of therapy... less agency. So, until our global medical systems are more in line with granting individuals agency and are less inherently political I'm going to be on the side of demedicalizing all that can be demedicalized. You do make a good point about surgeries, since I think you're right to say it's not practical to attempt to demedicalize anything in that vein any time soon, in terms of actually getting one if you want/need one, however. What practical demedicalization in that context could mean is to remove the stigma around getting one versus not getting one, and resisting political narratives that aim to restrict access of or impose them on trans or nonbinary folks. I think that your rejection of the ideas themselves needs a little bit more nuance, and this is coming from a nonbinary autistic person.
@@beansworth5694 I guess that's fair. I'm obviously not against destigmatization and more access to healthcare and more bodily autonomy for trans people (heck gimme some of that informed consent asap please, the system I'm in is absolute horrendous gatekeeping sh!te, I'd barely even hesitate to call it evil and actively transphobic). Maybe I misinterpreted what the word 'demedicalization' is meant to mean. I guess I interpreted it to mean that no doctors would be present in a transition trajectory anymore, which is obviously completely infeasible. Even for just hormones, regular checkups are important. Bodies react to hormones differently, so people need different doses to be healthy. I don't think there should be any roadblocks to getting hormones (bodily autonomy all the way), but that doesn't mean I think everyone should just DIY it with over the counter hormones and no guidance from endocrinologists (but if it's a choice between DIY and su!cide, then yeah DIY). GP's don't know their sh!t when it comes to hormone checkups, so until they do, endocrinologists need to be a part of the process. (And GP's need to start being trained because that's some bull, c'mon do your job.) And surgeries... if we can keep it covered by insurance (I'm in Europe), then again, I want no roadblocks there either. But in our current capitalist hellscape I don't see how we're going to convince insurance companies to cover trans surgeries without diagnoses of gender dysphoria. It would be extremely easy for a company to claim that it's cosmetic without such a diagnosis. In fully automated luxury g@y space communism though, yeah heck yeah get rid of diagnoses, we don't need that sh!t. So... if demedicalization isn't about removing doctors from the equation, what's it about? Just less roadblocks, less gatekeeping and less stigma? Because if so, it would take less than zero convincing for me to be on that side. And about the biology is messy and labels don't fully encapsulate the infinite complexity thing, yeah agreed, but there's still large patterns. I don't think someone needs to be perfectly binary in order to accurately identify with a binary label, so I don't think it's fair to say there's no such thing as a binary trans woman. Labels are approximations and that's fine. Just because no chair perfectly fits the platonic ideal of 'chair' doesn't mean chairs don't exist, you get what I mean? I hope I'm making sense. I don't always make sense to people.
@@ryn2844 Thanks for replying, and doing so in good faith friendo c: I just wanna clarify that I have heard people use demedicalization to mean actually removing any and all oversight as an end goal, including things like check ups that wouldn't restrict the patient's decision other than producing obligatory informed consent, so you might've not misunderstood whoever you were talking to that you've disagreed with this with. This is just how I understand the word, and I've also heard others use it in a similar vein of reasoning- I only went deep into it to point out that it's important to give your reservations nuance and to actually make sure you disagree with the person's interpretation of the idea before rejecting it. Because, like, the anti-science and naturalist/consumerist health industry also uses this word, and their usage of it might not be the most politically useful interpretation of the term. I, personally, know very little about endocrinology or how the self is constructed in concrete neurobiological terms and will happily defer to experts in their respective fields to help me apply my philosophical and sociological convictions more appropriately. I just really don't like how whenever something becomes medicalized more middlemen other than the experts themselves get to infringe on patients' agency. I live in the US, and from my experience DIY is better than the circus show. It's more humanizing, even if it leads to worse outcomes during the trial and error period of trying to learn the science yourself... I realize this viewpoint of mine is slightly dysfunctional, but our system is even more so, so I think I'm still being reasonable here lmao. Medicalization simultaneously means you *might* get more half-assed systemic support structures to help you along, but it also means that you're going to have a lot harder of a time not getting into legal trouble for helping yourself or a friend out. We're made to be either cash cows dancing on our toes for scraps or renegades... People should just be able to exercise transhumanism how they see fit under guidance that empowers us as individuals, or the existing structures should just get the fuck out of our way. To me, demedicalization is the threat behind that ultimatum: it's a demand for the medical establishment as a whole to apply their expertise in a compassionate manner that makes no compromises to special interests, or to lose their credibility. On the binary/nonbinary divide: you're making plenty of sense to me, even if I don't fully agree. Labels can be useful, but the insistence of upholding them in spite of their obvious shortcomings is a bit philosophically bankrupt imo. Yeah, you can apply cisness as a label onto people and it be somewhat accurate according to the limitations of the word, but it puts people in a box that nobody actually *belongs* in. Biologically and psychologically, sex and gender alike aren't binary. Binary trans women exist in the sense that they conceptualize themselves as a woman and other people that are open and compassionate enough will too- but they're not widely viewed as a binary woman by society because they don't accurately fit the various markers of gender that we've constructed. To call this disconnect transphobia, and leave it at that, is a bit incomplete. A transphobe doesn't want to give up an essentialist framing of gender, and they're willing to enforce it through refusing to validate people who're unhappy with they were placed in at birth. Being critical of gender (in actuality, not the 'gender critical' people who just shit on NB and trans people) is fundamentally more of a queer concern than a transphobic one- to apply that critical lens to say 'there's no such thing as a real woman in the first place' is the exact opposite of what the transphobe is arguing. Let me give you some context on why this is pretty important to me, and why it's not just an academic question... If you didn't ask me or I didn't offer it you wouldn't know that I identify as nonbinary. I am cis-passing AMAB, but I don't want to be excluded from nonbinary spaces on the basis that I'm 'too cis', because I don't want to be locked into this masculine male framing by people who would otherwise be on my side... is that selfish? Yeah. It is, but the reason I'm comfortable making this sort of request for openness even in spite of the knowledge there is a selfish desire to feel included behind it is because I genuinely believe that gender as a whole is a construct that's forced onto everybody without our consent, it's just more uncomfortable for some people than others. The binary doesn't fit anyone perfectly, and I think it'd be wrong to lock people in the closet because they're not willing to be *more* trans than they'd otherwise be comfortable with. Because that's basically just reinventing gender roles, but more of them that lie outside of the traditional binary lmao
As a non binary person who has dysphoria and is in the process of transitioning, thanks. The whole idea that no one gets to define non binary seems to vastly go over the heads of just about everyone in 'the community'. While I would never say anyone has to transition physically/medically, to say that transitioning is moving into the binary is way too common.
"With my hair short, my junk man-made, and my planet dying" this. This of all things will stick with me for years to come 😂 I really enjoyed the perspective and approach you brought to the table. You really covered alot of ground
I got an add for that new Clint Eastwood movie which started with something like "I'm tired of this macho identity." I just assumed it was part of the video for a couple seconds. Good stuff, I always appreciate your videos.
Relatively recently I realized that I'm transfeminine; however any understanding of my gender beyond that was pretty murky. As someone who always felt more drawn to the "kind of androgynous, but in a femme way," aesthetic than a more stereotypically/traditionally feminine one, I wasn't sure what that made me. Part of that was internalized transmisogyny for sure ("If I don't do X, can I REALLY be a woman?" was a common thought), and part of it was just general uncertainty and dysphoria. This video has really helped crystallize a lot of my thoughts around gender; both the spoken contents of the video, but also simply seeing you present yourself in a way I hadn't really seen trans women present before. So thank you, both for this video and just putting yourself out there on the internet in general, you've really helped me expand on how I conceive of myself as I plan for my future. :)
I dislike the gatekeeping of GSRM experiences and specifically trans experiences. Gatekeeping around it held me back in my youth, despite me now considering myself a trans woman. Gatekeeping and insider vs. outsider discussions seem like a common behavior among people. I think this is even more common among young people who are still forming their understandings of themselves. It certainly happens for pop culture topics like who is a “true” fan of some music artist.
I really loved this video. I totally agree on the meaningless division of binary and nonbinary trans. I especially liked your conversation of the fight to be trans without transitioning and how you framed it as a counter culture against the counter culture. I felt reminded of my parents arguing that anything would have been acceptable except medical and social transition. There was nothing deviant about my existence, only in changing my name, my pronouns, medically transitioning and so on. Though I do believe that this argument is missing some points. Largely that people rarely are trans without doing any form of social transition. I feel that this movement is largely to validate trans people who don’t check all the boxes of how their expected to present of behave. It’s harder to have someone respect your pronouns if you’re not on hormones, and it’s harder to have someone recognize your gender if your pronouns differ from them. In many countries you still can’t get your gender marker changed until you have bottom surgery, and in many others you can’t get hormones unless you plan to get bottom surgery. I think there definitely is still a deviance in not conforming to the idealized standard of transition and not conforming to cisgender society.
So glad your MOGAI video happened to cross my radar a some months ago. I feel like every one of these essays leaves me with a sense of almost spiritual expansion. Which is to say, I really appreciate your perspective. Hope you have a good day. :)
Great video :). I appreciate how you structure arguments in a way that they can be accepted without necessarily accepting a specific worldview wholesale. This is an issue I think hits a lot of leftist content creators- their arguments tie so many things into so many other things that persuading anyone who doesn't already agree with their entire paradigm becomes an unlikely task. I'm someone who disagrees with you profoundly on some important issues and likely always will, but a few of the points you raised here have moved the needle slightly- in particular the point about capital and the veneer of queerness without the material demands.
Not constructive, just saying I love your top. The blocky 80s cut, the Japanese indigo ink... The effect is aesthetically very pleasing and gives both calm and energy.
So glad someone mentioned your vids in the comments re: a Jammidodger vid. I have thoroughly enjoyed three of your gender vids now - intellectually thought provoking… well reasoned examination of multiple viewpoints. Also, I appreciate hearing about gender from a person under 30. I am a cis straight white north-american woman (whatever that mouthful means!?!) who is fully in love with, and proud of, my 20 year old bi trans son and I’m looking to gain a better understanding of him without relying on him to educate me… at least not only him. He’s got a life of his own to live, after all, and it’s much bigger than just his gender☺️
That Susan Stryker essay had me screaming at my phone I got so amped up! She articulates my pain in a way I never can find the words for, and brings me to tears when I read her work. "The same anarchic womb has birthed us both... heed my words, and you may well discover the seems and sutures in yourself" While I personally do identify as the sometimes hated trans fem binary woman, existing in a non-binary space is just my reality. I will always have some level of empathy with any member of the gender spectrum at this point of my awareness, and I've grown to become proud of my place as an outsider to all identities, as no one really ever fits perfectly anywhere. It's empowering when I hear others speak within this community on the topic especially in the comments to this video!
Fantastic video :)! This is pretty much stated in the video but I think it's interesting that in gendery spaces there is usually a willingness to keep the NB radar on for people (and thus avoid gendering to a varying extent) who have less transgressive gender expressions, but most especially for people they think are cis. Binary trans women as defined in the video are not afforded the same courtesy, and it seems like a blind spot for people who most often distinguish between gender expression and gender identity. Also glad to see criticism of the priority of identity. Identity is helpful for individuals, but it doesn't change much collectively in real life other than giving people something to realize they have in common. Now it's looped back around to division again :( All around really great video, looking forward to future ones, even if they're different :)
I use female pronouns, changed my name to a female name, and pursued medical transition. I'm 'lazy' about the 'presenting as a feminine woman'. So i guess I qualify as Binary Trans, but... I kind of feel like a 70/30 split. I don't want to purge the masculine parts of me that I love just to attain some weird feminine standard. It feels like taking off one costume just to put on another, instead of seeking an authentic 'me'. When one cis woman found out I was trans, she said 'Oh, I just thought you were mannish.' When I started transition, 20 years back, 'passing' was a survival mechanism. Even now, I feel that pressure to conform to a binary standard. I don't claim to know what 'being a woman' means. Thanks for the video.
That's a great shirt. 31 y/o trans guy here. Identified as trans and/or nb for a decade before I got to start transitioning. (Where on the timeline the nb falls is not where you'd expect.) Just starting to conditionally exit "womanhood." The trans "versus" (🤮) nb discussion is quite the swamp. Enjoying your foray into it.
Having spent years in the "trans but not medically or legally transitioned" camp, and now well into those transitions, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. I won't say "privileges," because trans people don't oppress each other by having harder or easier lives. Having the ability to transition is a blessing. Having plausible deniability of your transness can be a boon. Are we going to weigh "gets misgendered a lot" and "fears safety in medical establishments due to transphobia?" I'd argue it's not moral or possible.
It's so refreshing to hear somebody so cleverly and simply articulate the divide between binary trans and nonbinary trans people, without bias towards either. I feel like I only hear people talk about this in an attempt to cast blame on the opposite ends of the spectrum and tear each other down to make ourselves feel better, we have to look past these stupid tiny differences and stand United or the cis will win, we cant let the cis win 😫
I related to you personally identifying as genderqueer rather than binary trans woman. If I woke up the next day and I was a cis man, I'd probably just identify as a man. But I have to go through a trans journey. I don't look like a typical man and that makes me feel more comfortable with nonbinary because in a sense my existence is nonbinary. If I only identified as a trans man, I'd feel like I was erasing a part of myself.
Even the binary of trans and cis feels a lil restrictive to me. Not saying it isn't an important distinction to make, just that I think there can be grey area even between two concepts seemingly so diametrically opposed. I've lived my life as a cis woman but because I am gay and gender non-conforming I have not always been treated like one. I find myself deeply identifying with the experiences of trans people even though I'm not technically trans. Internal and external experiences reinforce the idea I am some other gender, but I just don't feel invested enough in trying to describe that gender to myself or others. Using she/her pronouns and classifying myself as a woman is just what's expedient. So even though I align more closely with trans perspectives/experiences, I basically operate as a cis person & that's fine with me for now.
The thing is: (And I'm saying this as a trans woman): I've never bought into the whole, "Gender is a social construct", thing. Yes, there are social aspects to gender expression, and these can differ based on the society and country; -however, as most people who've been on hormones have experienced: there very much is biological and energetic aspect to gender as well. Testosterone (paired with a lack of estrogen) makes people more aggressive, it makes it easier for guys to take the initiative, etc. This does account, in my mind to much of the reason why guys often feel far more comfortable doing things like applying for job positions, whereas many women want to wait until they feel they have a perfect resume to do so. Likewise, as most trans women have experienced if they've gone on hormones (and especially after surgery and having not making testosterone anymore), estrogen and progesterone have a very visceral impact on the experience of emotions. Emotions often take on a very "high definition", aspect, when people take estrogen. And so some of the old "sexist" stereotypes about women being more emotional, in my experience may in fact have a grain of truth to them. One of the things I don't like about a lot of modern gender theory, is it kind of blames everything on patriarchy and sexism, and ignores the possibility that while those things exist, that some of their causes might actually be influenced by how hormones effect the mind. Hormones are a drug after all, and most people are effectively divided two main categories of taking one cocktail of drugs, or taking a completely different set. And that is bound to effect the way people think and approach the world. And I've always felt that dismissing that and placing the blame for everything on "social causes" was a bit too simplistic, and idealistic. And I think one of the pressures that may contribute to this "binary vs non-binary" tension, is it sometimes can feel that while non-binary people are correct that some aspects of gender expression are purely social: that they often don't seem to acknowledge that there are still biological aspects as well. Someone who identifies as non-binary but is still effectively a cis woman, who doesn't take male hormones: still is operating their daily life, under the "female cocktail of hormones". (Intersexxed people being an exception, of course). And so even though energetically, they may be non-binary, the drugs their body is having them take are still "the female drugs". And so on. One of the things I was talking about with another trans woman friend of mine, is we were noting that trans men and trans women who are early on in their transition, and have not had any kind of surgery, often can get a little crazy. Because in both cases, they have all the emotional amplification of estrogen, combined with all the aggression and high libido of testosterone. And the result is you get a lot of trans women early on in their transition who act like middle school sluts, and you get a lot of trans men who act like little whiny b*tch boys, and neither has learned to mellow out. It's usually only after either get their gonads removed, and that they start to mellow out, and act like more mature adults. And if I had to guess what a criticism of the non-binary people would be: is it's not that they aren't trans, it's rather that they often don't fully understand what it's like to transition one's body from one hormone cocktail to another. And that there is a very real biological effect on one's mind when one does that. It's a different kind of hill to climb than simply being a biological woman and putting on a flannel shirt and cutting one's hair short to look more masc. And the experience is not the same. Non-binary people deserve to be treated with respect the same as everyone else. But just because everyone deserves respect, doesn't mean everyone's experience is the same. Diversity means differences still exist.
As someone who identifies as a nonbinary trans dude who has gone through medical transition, this honestly hit home on so many points and I think a lot can be applied to the transmasculine side of the coin, too. I think a big problem in the nonbinary community is that people are beginning to turn nonbinary into a binary gender, which completely erases nonbinary identities in the first place and assumes that all nonbinary people are perfectly androgynous and genderless and have no connections to either femininity or masculinity, or just the "right" amounts of both. I really hope many people from all parts of the trans community will watch this video and really think about what gender, "binary", and "nonbinary" means to them and how we can work together as a community not to divide ourselves even more, but to learn to appreciate our similarities, differences, and everything beyond and in between that makes us who we are. Thank you for this.
Gender is weird, I'm actually kinda glad that I've settled on being an enby. Though I do miss the days when you could call yourself the unspeakable q, and those in the know knew it meant something different to just being a cis gay man. Like I understand a transwoman's need to shake off an incorrect and painful old identity. I've had the talk multiple times with the siblings, and they still can't be bothered using they/them for me. But I feel for my self, that the femininity people often see in me, is really only my absence of masculinity. Since most people really can't conceive of someone being genderless, just as asexuality is a mystery to most sexual people. Yet I seemingly don't have to try at all to be me, whereas it's quite common for transwomen to completely reengineer their biology, in sometimes decades long undertaking. I often feel quite lazy in comparison.
I actually identify as a binary trans man the way I distinguish it is that I simply don't experience gender as the spectrum it is. I can only conceptualize myself either identifying as a man or a woman and this context solidifies the fact that am a man. It doesn't mean I don't believe that there is a spectrum or wholeheartedly support people at any place on it or outside of it it just means that I can't personally perceive it in the context of myself like a person being colorblind. It's the same way I distinguish the fact that I'm bi not pan I'm attracted to men and women and possibly non binary people but my attraction is gendered, I feel different kinds of sexual attraction for different gender presentations. Pansexuality seems to be completely regardless of gender it doesn't factor into someones attraction they don't see their attraction in a gendered context at all.
huh, that's really interesting! i'm also a binary trans man, but i think i do experience gender as a spectrum, i just strongly identify with one end of it and most of the stuff that comes with it. It makes me feel good to be associated with the end of the gender spectrum that i was unlucky enough not to start on
Awesome video. I'm a trans man that's been medically transitioning for five years (socially about a decade). I never felt the need to strive for a binary, though I'm much happier with my body now. I was never able to work out if I'm a binary trans man or nonbinary - Sometimes I feel exasperated trying to suss it out; I'd rather just let myself be who I am and not have to categorize it. Though I like using "GNC" (gender non-conforming) to describe myself because it speaks to actions and personal taste rather than internal identity.
This video really blew me away, you put into words a lot of what I've been pondering lately as someone who just started living as "stealth", great work!
People assume that I'm a binary trans woman right up until I open my mouth. Because I could never get the hang of voice training. I could never force myself to stick to the new inflection and pitch naturally. Because I already did this once, trying to masculinise my voice in my late teens. My voice would never have been described as masculine when I was cis-passing, in fact, the opposite- it was always described as soft and gentle. But it's definitely a "male voice"- it's not even as if I don't desire a more feminine voice, but I used to suffer with a lot of social anxiety and trauma , the way I speak is informed by a performative laddish confidence I adopted to better navigate social situations before I came out. I can "audibly pass as a woman" on phone calls or around close friends with ease- but stick me in a social situation that makes me even slightly conscious of how I'm going to be perceived- and I fall right back into whatever I find most natural. So people assume I'm just a binary trans woman who's fucking it up, or a non-binary transfem who just doesn't care about how she sounds. In truth, I'm a non-binary a trans woman who's fucking it up. I essentially want the treatment allegedly afforded to the stereotypical "conformist" binary trans woman- but being non-binary isn't the barrier- I just don't pass. And ultimately- I could be any of those things- and the way I'm perceived and treated wouldn't shift at all.
I was not disappointed! I'm glad to hear someone talk about the things I've been thinking and be able to articulate it in a way I never can. I'm transmasc. I generally say I'm a trans man, but in a sense that I choose to be? Because what is a man anyway? It doesn't mean anything objectively and it certainly doesn't mean anything to me personally. I feel like I identify more with my transition itself than with my "binary" gender. I only started calling myself a man after I realized I wanted to start T. Prior to that, I always identified as nonbinary. 2 years on T, I call myself a man, but I still don't feel right calling myself binary. And I hate the divide between nonbinary and binary trans people because I can't comfortably rest on either side.
Can we just appreciate the density of sticky tabs in that copy of Whipping Girl? If my copy looked as worn and poured-over as that one, I'd be flashing it like it was a credential as well! Great video and very much needed!
weight is another HUGE factor in terms of how people gender you. i can only speak to my experience as a cis woman (although i do know from listening to other trans people that they can be denied gender-affirming surgery due to their weight) but i often feel like i'm de-gendered because of my weight- like i'm not a "real" woman.
Your points in the section "counter-counterculture" reminded me of this quote from Jodi Dean's book 'Democracy and Other Neoliberal Fantasies: Capitalist Communication and Left Politics': "When communication serves as the key category for left politics, whether communication be configured as discourse, spectacle, or publicity, this politics ensures its political failure in advance: doing is reduced to talking, to contributing to the media environment, instead of being conceived in terms of, say, occupying military bases, taking over the government, or abandoning the Democratic Party and doing the steady, persistent organizational work of revitalizing the Greens or Socialists" (32-33).
@@lily_lxndr oh, no it wasn't meant as a dig at the video! I think the key (lol) part in the quote is the "KEY category for leftist politics" bit. Dialogue and discussion are still important, it's just not the beginning and end of things, or at least that's how I interpret it
Damn, I'm enby and this was a tour-de-force for me. I never realized how much my identity has been shaped by pursuit of incredibly fuzzy ideals, like acceptance, empowerment, validation. How much capitalism has sold me those things as part of my identity.
I really enjoyed this video. The divide between nonbinary and binary has kind of gotten to my head and I really appreciate a challenge to that. I'm currently questioning and exploring my gender, and have been identifying as nonbinary because I know I'm not cis, but like.. I don't really know my gender beyond that, it's a pretty nebulous feeling. I like that by identifying as nonbinary, people have no real expectations for what my gender is or what my presentation is or anything like that. But do I, truthfully, feel nonbinary? I dunno. I flip flop on whether I'm nonbinary or not, and it feels kind of off to me, because, as you spoke about in the video, surely we should be challenging the idea of the gender binary as immutable. And surely any crossing of gender boundaries does this challenging. I have been calling myself trans for a bit now, maybe I will just drop the "nonbinary". I do not feel binary, but I do not feel "not binary" either. I just feel like myself.
i'm a trans guy but i initially identified as nonbinary because i didn't think i "felt like a man". Same as you, i didn't know what feeling like a man or a woman was like, i just felt like me. i realized that it was more of a simplification than anything, afaik no one really feels like a man or a woman. And realizing that allowed me to focus on how i wanted to present, interact with society, and best alleviate my dysphoria (and also to realize i really did have dysphoria and i didn't have to experience mind destroying suffering to be trans, wooo). So all that led me to where i am today, and hopefully some of what i shared can help you figure out your own journey, at least a little =)
@@_Lyricris_ Well I'm leaning more towards thinking I'm a trans guy, and I've gone on a similar mental journey to what you have described. So it does help to hear that someone who has been down that path before me has had that experience, thank you :)
I feel basically exactly the same way. I spent countless nights lying awake in bed, trying to figure out if I'm a trans man or some flavor of nonbinary. The more I tried to figure it out, the more nebulous and confusing my feelings became... because I always just felt like "me." So I gave up and started figuring out the material things I wanted to change about my life. I knew I wanted people to use he/him pronouns for me, I wanted everyone to call me things like brother/son/husband/boyfriend/etc., and I wanted to start testosterone. And now that I'm pursuing those goals, I actually don't care about finding a label for my gender anymore. I just tell people I'm a man because I hate explaining trans stuff to cis people haha. But if I wake up tomorrow and decide that "nonbinary" is a better word to describe my experience, that wouldn't actually change anything about my life or my transition.
I label myself as a binary transman. I don't see a negative connotation with the word. I do get slightly frustrated when people do see being a binary trans person as something negative. The assumptions seems to be that I really haven't thought about it enough, that I'm just putting myself in a box to fit in and be accepted by cis people. I don't see it that way, although maybe subconsciously it plays a role. My line of thinking is, if a cis man doesn't fit all the masculine gender stereotypes and is uncomfortable with some of the expectations that are put upon men, that doesn't necessarily mean he is non-binary. If it's widely accepted for binary cis people to be binary, I feel the same should apply to trans people. I feel like if I would label myself a non-binary transman, tons of now self identified cis man would have labelled themselves incorrectly. So maybe I do look at cis people too much for my identity, but at the same time I'd personally rather expand the definition as what a man can be, than label myself as non-binary. Also because the mainstream definition of how to "be a man" is very man, defining myself as a man and not fitting all the stereotypes feels more revolutionary than labelling myself as not a binary man. This is ofcourse still a very personal choice and feeling. I respect people that identify as nonbinary or any other gender for whatever reason.
i have found so many of your videos insightful and refreshing, especially as a transmasc person, because of your perspective as a transfem person. i think you make a very great point against the idea that "all nonbinary people are more opressed" and "all binary people are privileged". at the end of the day a bigot will mostly not care about the difference and all trans people should unite to help each other, no matter our circumstances, which are all incredibly varried. also, i am very excited for your next video!!! it sounds really interesting :DD
Also, my wife is a medically transitioning woman, while I'm NB. I was ignorant of a lot of the truscum/tucute Tumblr fueled toxicity that happened and, while I am glad to learn about it and discuss it, I am also glad that I missed it in my formative years (too old). This division between non-medical vs. medical transness has created very difficult structural barriers that trans people need to criticize. For instance, where we currently live there has been recent bureaucratic reforms that allow me to change my gender to X at any time through self-identification. I'm really happy for this, but what I'm not happy about is that my wife doing the same thing - changing to "F" - has taken her over a year and consultation with multiple medical professionals. I can't help but interpret this as governments both viewing nonbinary as less "real" and as less "threatening," whereas changing to a specific gender is heavily policed. This is why queer solidarity is so important. Division only creates more barriers and just changes what oppression looks like.
Truscum means i wont call a penis female genitals, or sleep with a penis person who “identifies female” and pretend a penis is not a penis. All I see is men trying to force an unwanted penis on the unwilling.
When I first saw the title I looked down at myself and went, yep, I'm pretty sure I exist. I find it kind of interesting, because I do self-identify as a binary trans woman, and I didn't think that I was in the minority among trans people similar to myself by calling myself "binary". Maybe I'm in a bubble myself lol
The title made me think that this was going to say nearly the opposite of what it ended up saying. Now at the end, I'd like to thank you for putting into words what I couldn't
I don't see how this video could ever be seen as enby-phobic (or out nof your lane tbh), it's so nuanced that the people who could attack me from inside (transmed, binarists etc.) won't find any concrete weapon to hurt me, just for being nonbinary, or even the more agressive "tenderqueers", with wich I happen to share similiar needs (for example ""validation"" or visibility) I believe that this conversation *needs* to happen in order to bring us all together.
maybe, the term "tenderqueer" may put some people on edge, because its similiar to transtrender, and may be reminiscent of the way older "visible" folks who preach binarism such as buck angel, talk down on people who id as queer in general on also the basis that this group tends to be younger (in short terms, there seems to be some issues in threading discussions such as this or even about stuff like mogai in a way that does not seem too patronizing, pheraps)
I love how you question premises that so many people take for granted. As a non-binary person this really helped me see how I have more in common with other trans identities than I thought!
Hi Lily Alexandre, I found your channel few days ago and I started to listen to your video essays on the background when I work, thought it could be a good learning material (it does!). I couldn't stop rewinding back to re-listen and think for myself and I do relate a lot of the experiences cited in the essays. To this one in particular, I've been gate-keeping myself over a decade for non-conforming to the binary trans standard and I still felt not legit when I deicided to come out and go for medical transition last year, I kept questionning myself if all these efforts are the cost of being recognized as trans/woman... But as I heard about the part that it's the womanhood/women's experience are constructed with somehow privileged white women, I suddenly feel that everything that held me back was non-sense. Everyone has one's unique experience of gender, we don't need to conform to any archetype of gender, it is a huge relief and a sense of freedom that I feel. Thank you for the essay, I find it very intresting, intuitive and inspiring.
This video and many of the comments underneath are so refreshingly thoughtful, I'm glad I found another little corner of the internet that's filled with people who engage with these conversations so deeply.
As a nonbinary viewer, I appreciate you raising this conversation. I am often conflicted on my views about gender, its roles, its utility, how we should talk about it, what people get to call themselves/others, etc. and we desperately need more nuance in a way that social media just doesn't encourage. Big fan of your work.
There's an easter egg in the title cards that literally nobody has picked up on and it's driving me crazy
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
I didn’t get any title cards 🧐
@@Observette By title cards, I mean the chapter markers like at 5:26 and 9:29
I'm not clever enough. 😌
is it the sound bite? I don't recognize it from somewhere
I remember one occasion where Kat Blaque said she is always perceived as "radical" for being black and trans. The idea of "conservative" transness it's quite racially charged.
Your discussion regarding binary trans women still ending up living a nonbinary experience, brought up a memory, relating to the trans-masc community. There's several black trans-masc tik tokers I follow, because they make interesting commentary about gender that I rarely see others make. And one of them was retelling an incident where he was part of this trans-masc discord and had made a chat for other black trans-mascs to join and talk about their experience. And he had asked if even though they're not women, do they still identify with womanhood on some level? A lot of them agreed, and this was because they still felt a strong connection to black womanhood and the experiences gained from misogyny, because white womanhood is already set as the binary, so that connection they had still felt like a part of their nonbinary/trans identity. And apparently some white trans mascs were reading the chat Convo, and called them out, saying they weren't really trans if they felt that way. This was interesting to me, because I felt very similarly, but with indigenous womanhood contrasting the masculine gender I feel, but I wouldn't have been able to put that feeling into words until he had told that story. Which I think this type of nonbinary experience how very separate and "queer" it feels to have a gender separate from white culture's definitions.
In my heart of hearts, I cannot say that I "feel" like I have a gender, but I strongly identify with being a woman in society. It's like, if gender is a psychosocial construct, I lack the psychological aspect of gender but I have a social gendered identity. I think that people who are genderqueer but feel a lot of solidarity with others from a (different) gender understand this instinctively but it is pretty hard for anyone else. Definitely does not make someone less genderqueer or less trans masc or fem.
@@PBndJ I meant, I politically identify with womanhood and feel solidarity with women. We face similar hurdles due to society thinking we are women. In other words, feminism/women's rights is not just a progressive movement but a movement whose success directly relates to my quality of life. It's not that I identify to myself with womanhood. Not sure how the "you can't just decide to be an elephant" comment relates to what I'm saying since that's something one could say to anyone who's not cisgender.
I wonder how it can be even possible to completely disconnect yourself from womanhood once you have experienced it. I am a white nonbinary transmasc person. And I very much still identify with womanhood at a social level, because I've lived it for 23 years and I still live it. It is a part of my identity no matter how valid my gender is. Even when I take hormones and the world sees me as a man, it will still be a part of my identity. I will still be connected to womanhood and to all women. And I don't think there are any transphobic implications in that, it's simply the result of a patriarchal misogynistic society. (I do acknowledge your nuance tho and how the experience of and connection to womanhood and your gender must be quite different for non white transmasc people)
@@AurelUrban I understand this completely. We have been socialized as women for a long time, and sometimes mistreated for our perceived womanhood. The societal (mis)treatment does not completely leave one's psyche just because they are wrong about our gender.
@@PBndJ put it this way : i can identify with "Martin Luther King" , but i can't "be" Martin Luther King"
I could feel like i am a similar person to MLK , or have similar ways of thinking , and I can call myself MLK , but MLK is just a 'label' representing the man .. and each MLK will be different , but the original MLK still stands the same .. unaltered.
society can recognize people as "elephants" if society wishes (absurd as it is) .. but the label elephant is only a label and a 'creature' , human or animal is just whatever unique expression of the universe that it is , whatever label you give it >> you can dress it up, give it certain roles, modify it surgically .. and the elephant is just whatever it is with new roles and dress sense and surigical modification
society is so hung up on labels , but the labels aren't the reality .... unless you believe in labels rather than the 'actual' existence
and then you will probably have a modified view of the world when labels change
but i think we are all (society) too hung up on labels instead of just being, and not judging and boxing in with labels for things and confusing that for reality
I always hated this image of non binary as exclusively being, let’s face it, white, afab and androgynous. That’s the image that’s been cultivated and every stereotype ends up doing my head in because it completely contradicts my experiences as a bigender genderfluid person and the experiences of the non binary people around me. We aren’t this monolith that companies want us to be, I think you really nailed the head with that. Companies want us to be a singular entity to market to us, the cooperate validation reminds me a lot of girlboss girl power capitalist feminism. It’s almost the exact same shit repackaged for a different audience
Also kinda same, but also polygender and sexual and/or non-binary, too?
Though also wish I could also shape-shift back and forth, too. Y Y
this
it makes it really hard to figure out your identity when your told theirs only 1 way to be different
The vast majority of detransitioners are afab so that makes sense 🤷♀️
Not gonna lie, I feared this video was going to be shallow and dismissive of "either side" of this struggle. Not only was it not, it also went where almost no analysis of transness goes on the surface layer of "trans youtube" - race and nationality. Being a brazilian trans woman who makes practically no effort to pass beyond hormones - in fact dresses very androgynously on purpose - and yet is consistently and infallibly read as a woman, I feel like my own experience was taken into account in the making of this video. Subbed
Thank you! So glad to hear it
How long have you been on hormones? I started at 19 and after 2 years, I've never been mistaken as a woman, and I don't think I'm really masculine. How do you pass effortlessly just on hrt?
As someone who is often sorted into the “binary transwoman” box, I am always baffled that the people for whom this sort of thing matters have such a difficult time wrapping around the idea that my *personal* choice to “assimilate” does not exclude me from *politically* supporting and fighting for the rights and means for anyone to transition however they chose. It makes talking about these kinds of things in online spaces so frustrating.
It's just because they hate real trans women and can't handle the idea that they're not really women if they don't want to fully transition, so they're completely dismissive of people with actual gender dysphoria
This is…. So important. The truth is, seeing nonbinary people as “non-medicalized” hurts us. A LOT. I remember searching youtube for some nonbinary (medical) transition options, and literally the first result was a psychologist telling nonbinary people that they shouldn’t transition because it’s a “SeRiOuS dEcIsIoN” and that we should be content with switching pronouns and presentation. Which is literally the opposite of what I want. I know that with the body that’s “ideal” for me, I’d probably still be seen as a man. And I don’t care.
A lot of discussion of being nonbinary is confined to pronouns, the details of our identity and how we want to be perceived. But that’s to me the least important bit. And I feel like it’s such a useless discourse. What matters to me is the fact that I don’t even know if the transition that I’d want would be seen as “gender affirming” by insurance companies. And this, I’m sure, is not just a problem nonbinary trans people experience.
There’s this weird idea that nonbinary people’s political demand is to “just be seen” and for society to have an identity X-ray vision. That’s not what I want. What I want is full bodily autonomy without barriers of medical gatekeeping, and capitalism. What I want is a world that you need not even be trans to modify your body in gendered ways. I want a world where cis women are be able to get girld*cks too, if they want! I want complete bodily autonomy and the decoupling of our access to our needs to some identity label.
👏👏👏
YES
YES!!!!!!!!
EXACTLY
@G Well, I'm a trans man and I don't fucking care wether or not an enby person is trans, they decide that. And the person to which you are replying to literally said they want to transition. You surely didn't read everything or payed attention because you clearly are very angry. All this person wants is for everyone to be able to access the procedures they want to make, and you know who benefits the most from it? Binary trans people. We are forced to go through so many steps just to prove ourselves to cis people, but if we, as bodily autonomous individuals could just say "This is what I want to do." and get the things we need...wouldn't that be better?
'A counterculture to a counterculture sometimes ends up looking exactly like the culture we're in'
Okay yeah that line hit hard, but probably differently than you'd expect.
I'm asexual, in the 'I'm not ever going to have sex ever' way. There's a part of the ace community that could be analogous to what you would call the nonmedicalized nonbinary side. That side is very loud about 'you can still be ace if you like sex', and that is true, but sometimes they take that so far that they'll repathologize people like me, glorifying sex, saying that I have to try it first, or that my sex-repulsion is a mental health issue that I should fix by desensitizing myself.
And then I get framed as the conservative or the 'negative stereotype of asexuality' for existing the way I do, while I'm still just trying to get my right to not ever have partnered sex respected, which was the point of the ace community in the first place. I feel very erased and villified and pushed out of the ace community because of this. It is honestly traumatizing to have people within the ace community effectively tell me that I'm an unacceptable human being for not ever wanting sex.
So yeah, I think that helps me understand the feelings you're having about the nonmedicalized nonbinary part of the trans community.
Thank you for sharing!!
@@DrAbadie You're welcome to follow your own advice and stop leaving unkind messages to random people online. I'm sure you've got more productive things to do.
@@DrAbadie The fact that you're trying to insult me with the word virgin while at the same time claiming that society doesn't have a bias against asexuals is absolutely amazing to me.
yes I am in that exact same boat!!!! I'm a sex repulsed asexual and it hurts so much the way so many sex-neutral asexuals put us down and make us look like freaks.
Can I express going through the opposite experience here? As a sex-desiring ace, it's really disheartening coming into the community as there's a lot of negative discourse surrounding the desire to have sex, often equating the desire for sex with being allosexual which just... sucks
This reminds me so much of being kicked out of a “radical” queer space because I was trying to pass - which was deemed as Inherently Trans/Enby/Queerphobic to do
It’s such a bizarre cultural divide and it helps no one when we tear one another down. Thank you, this video is super important
It's so annoying bc like looking at that list of 4 qualifiers that are used to define us as binary trans women, non-binary afabs can have all four of those and still have the complexities of their gender respected (I'm converting 'desire to pass' into 'being alright with being read as a woman in everyday life' and 'pursuing medical transition' into 'being happy with the parts of their body that are associated with femininity.') The real difference there is that we have to fight like hell to get to the place where they start, and the vast majority of people, including many of the queer community, will always see our relationship to femininity as fake simply cause we had to fight to get there and thus we weren't born into it.
EDIT: Talking about trans femininity because that's my experience and comparing myself to afab nb people bc they're the people who are mostly in the same communities as me yet don't experience transmisogyny
That’s a funny to spell reactionary. 😢
Honestly, this is what happens when we let people in the community treat gender as some huge counter culture trend, rather than some ones personal identy. And frankly this whole demonization to those who want to pass or medically transition is just flat out transphobia, but "progressive"
Why Enby are valid and this is coming from a binary trans girl.
You're part of the transgender community and should be love and accepted like anyone else.
Yeah, this is so true. Often they take it as if we are saying they and all other trans people should want & try to pass within the binary. That just is not true. They don't have to want or try to pass and that's awesome, they're still trans and I love them just as much any binary trans person but, I want to express myself this way and that should be okay too. Growing up wanting to be a girl, means I want to be a girl. Maybe I'm thinking too hard about it tho lol.
Two main thoughts, I think: 1. It's weird to me how much of this narrative is taken directly from conservatives (sometimes conservative trans women, like Blair White, but also often conservative cis people interested in sectioning off the trans community). The notion of the privileged, thin, passing binary trans women was never a representation of the majority of the community, it was an image created specifically to juxtapose against trans people regardless of identity and force them to conform. "Transtrenders" and "real trans people" have never been meaningful categories mapping cleanly along identity lines, and there's not really any reason to adopt a classification scheme created by people who's primary political interest is taking away our (and I mean *all* trans people) rights.
2. It seems to me like for a lot of people this "non-binary trans person" is supposed to represent a freedom from the kind of idealized images that identifying as a trans woman is supposed to come packaged with, but the act of position these two groups against each other requires making a lot of assumptions about the identity and life of both, not just "binary trans women." I talked about this a bit under another comment but in my experience the "non-binary trans person" here is often assumed to be AFAB and trans masc, to identify as lesbian, and so on. I mean "women and non-binary" as a phrase has already kind of become a meme because of how many spaces for "women and non-binary people" have no interest in allowing or representing AMAB non-binary people that aren't willing to identify with womanhood, which is something I've experienced first hand as an AMAB non-binary person who doesn't present as or identify as a woman. Just as the opposition between binary and non-binary trans people makes a lot of implicit assumptions about the identity and experiences of "binary trans women," it comes packaged with a very specific image of a "non-binary trans person" that I can't say I really feel represented by.
I mean, the reason the whole "women and nonbinary" thing exists is because of attempts to make resources that exist to help people who suffer as a result of being perceived as feminine in a misogynist world available to people that could use them while (clumsily) trying to respect their gender identity. An AMAB who doesn't present feminine would be treated as a cis man in most areas of their life, and thus wouldn't face the kind of discrimination that women and those regularly mistaken for women face when dealing with trying to advance your career, getting access to reproductive healthcare, etc. In short, they're not talking about you because you're not the kind of enby that needs the service they're trying to provide.
@@puppppppies Obviously no one is arguing that (most) AMAB people need access to abortion services. But there are also a lot of spaces and communities that present themselves as being in existence for people who aren't men when in reality they are only willing to harbor or accept a small proportion of non-binary people who have a certain assigned gender at birth and present themselves in a certain way, and they only accept those non-binary people insofar as they accept some identification with "womanhood" as an identity. No one is criticizing anyone for trying to create opportunities for people who deal with misogyny. They're (including lots of AFAB non-binary people who understandably feel as though their identity is being reduced to an extension of being a woman) criticizing them for being dishonest about the fact that these communities and opportunities are not and never were for non-binary people, and in the process reducing non-binary identity to an of course valid but highly specific kind of identity and presentation.
As a side note, I'd appreciate it if you didn't make such specific assumptions about the lives and experiences of I and other AMAB non-binary people... it's kind of weird to claim that these terms aren't effectively reducing us to "women-lite" while implicitly saying that if we don't identify with womanhood we're functionally cis men.
Yeah whenever I see those “women and nonbinary only” events, I’m never sure if I’m welcome as a nonbinary masc person. I’m afab but that doesn’t matter to people if you “pass” as male anyway.
absolutely! and (though probably not as strong an ick) that makes the space feel very oppositional for afab non-binary people - it's as if afab non-binary people are okay, because in the minds of the people policing these spaces they're (we're? I'm still working myself out) essentially women, just confused about it. Doesn't feel particularly accepting
The unfortunate thing about gender being a social construct is that it is constructed... socially... And, as a fat trans woman who identified as genderqueer for a decade before deciding I wanted to pursue medical transition and live as a woman, I am regularly and consistently gendered in a way that excludes me from womanhood. I take up too much space to be a woman. I've always been astounded by how ignored size is when people discuss gender. This isn't a critique of your video, just a commentary on my experience.
This is interesting to read as an afab person who gained weight over the pandemic, particularly around my hips. When I look at myself sometimes I see one of those ancient fertility statues, and feeling like I look aligned w this symbol of womanly fertility, makes me really dysphoric. So one of my main transition goals atm, is to slim down my hips (and gain muscle on my arms and shoulders), so they don't make me associate that type of thing with myself.
And reading your comment, got me thinking how in the current social construction of gender, thinness is a prerequisite for being taken seriously and having your identity respected. And it can effect cis people in similar ways too. It seems to be assumed that if you have more weight, you're not taking yourself seriously enough, you're not trying hard enough to be your gender, it's the "let yourself go" stereotype, and it's intensified for trans people
this is what i was coming here to say
Wiser women than me have talked about how growing up as a trans person is inherently traumatic (even without consciously realizing one's gender) and I cannot help but think how many similarities there are to how growing up fat affects a person.
I cannot honestly separate which parts of my experiences growing up can be attributed to having, in-fact, been a girl all along, and how much is because I was fat. I was "wrong" in more ways than one, and each of the wrongs made the other even more incriminating. The quotable question related to that would be: Are you allowed gender non-conformity when you are fat? Obviously you wouldn't be forbidden with that reasoning but they are inarguably two manners of defying social norms on a single person. You are encouraged to choose just one.
Well back when I was a fat cis woman (now i‘m nonbinary) i was also kinda denied my gender identity of woman weirdly enough. Fat women in general are usually painted as a genderless blob. So it‘s not just a problem with the trans women being dehumanized. It‘s also cis fat women.
@@PBndJ what a bunch of assumptions
Lily your work is a drink of cool water in a scorching desert of inane and meaningless gender theory. Once again you bring it back home, transmisogyny is at the root of so much of this fruitless discourse and you dissect it with such grace and precision. I really cannot express just how much I appreciate the things you make! I will definitely be joining the patreon!
Oh wow! Means a ton, thank you so much.
Thank you, too and totally agree!
thank you for saying this. It is plain to see that a lot of people in the trans community, (especially younger enbies) have not challenged their own internalized transphobia and transmisogyny. There are people in the trans community who insist that trans women are dangerous and constantly exclude us. Some nonbinary people even weaponize repackaged terf rhetoric against us, it's unbelievable. They need to unlearn hate
Your point about some non-binary people looking at medical transition as privileged or normative, even though it definitely isn’t, is so good…especially when you said that sometimes, counter culture against the counter culture just ends up looking like the culture we started with. As a trans man whose been on hormones for years, gotten surgery, legally changed my name and gender marker, etc, it’s very frustrating when I get told by non-binary people who have struggled through none of that and who largely present as their assigned gender at birth that I somehow have had it easier. To be clear: there is nothing wrong with not transitioning medically and I love my non-binary partner and friends! I am not a transmed. But you are completely right when you say that the general public’s opinion is that you don’t have to, or shouldn’t, medically transition. My medical transition was life saving for me, but was also one of the hardest things I’ve ever done, for a myriad of reasons, and I am not privileged or normative for doing so.
The problem is that most people on all sides of this issue seem to think that transition is a monolith. I’m a nonbinary trans guy, and I have been on T for five years. I am still often read as my assigned-at-birth gender despite this and a lot of trans men have straight up assumed I haven’t transitioned and don’t want to transition/don’t understand what people transitioning go through to simply because I’m nonbinary and because testosterone can’t make my curves go away. The privilege is the ability and willingness to assimilate and actively benefit from that assimilation, not the act of transition itself. Even “binary” trans people who fight to be read as their gender with medical procedures often still get misgendered. Even trans people who appear to have assimilated aren’t inherently benefiting from assimilation if they’re in fear for their lives while in stealth mode. These things are much more complicated than the idea that transition=privilege or lack thereof.
I've never heard that calling someone binary trans can be negative. When I use the term binary trans, it's usually only in education about trans people and the difference between those who identify within the binary and those who do not and/or identify in-between the binary (so, in my words, binary trans people and non-binary trans people). I only use it in an educational way, especially when trying to explain gender to someone who is just starting to learn, so I guess it makes sense that I've never heard the negative connotations with the term binary.
Same here, and maybe i've just never come across it but i gotta say i'm a little wary of someone who perceives binary trans as a negative thing, like that implies it's bad or something
I do know a LOT of cis people who understand and accept MtF and FtM transitions, but openly mock nonbinary people... while I think a lot of nonbinary people's aggression is completely misdirected, I understand how from where we're standing, a binary transition might seem easier. It's impossible for me to ever "pass" as my gender and it gives me a lot of frustration. I face an entire lifetime of being misgendered by anyone who doesn't know me, no matter how hard I try, and regardless of the pronoun pins I wear. This experience isn't exclusive to nonbinary people, of course, but it's common among those of us with social dysphoria around being gendered at all.
That said the notion of "binary privilege" is absurd, and the idea of just not transitioning or changing yourself at all, just tacking "nonbinary" onto yourself is somehow more radical, is also absurd. I did see a lot of that in some of the nonbinary circles that I eventually left. (generally, these days, I reach out to specific nonbinary people I think are cool, rather than clinging to any notion of community, every time I've tried to be part of one, it's felt really hostile in a way I struggle to articulate.) Any mention of medical transition often had to come with a caveat that you didn't *need* to do it. Even though I did. I've also seen a growing number of nonbinary people who insist they ARE NOT trans, which is odd to me, considering the white stripe on the trans flag is for us, and as I believe you mentioned, transgender was a term specifically made to include us.
I've always felt more welcome among transfems than in nonbinary or transmasc-specific spaces, despite being transmasc, I'm not really sure why.
Great video, insightful and well thought out as always
I think it is worth observing that "binary privilege" seems to often be the privilege of gender conformity. Not conforming to gender (especially doing so in a specific way) is what might tip people on an individual being non-binary and perhaps facing associated bigotry.
Well as a binary Trans woman, I would love this binary privilege that everyone is talking about because I don't think I have it? Or it sure AF doesn't fell like I do! I have no problem with other binary and non-binary people.
But if you're non-binary just say so.
I think everyone is valid, "except cis people Fuck them" 😒 😂 no I'm kidding
But really we need to stop fighting each other, this does nothing to help us.
@@maynardewm As a non-binary trans person who has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria and transitioned socially, legally, and medically... I disagree.
@@maynardewm I agree with you and also fall into the former group that OP mentioned. Luckily almost all the LGBT people I know feel the same, but online is a very different story.
Isn't transfem specially a term about nonbinary people who transition into femininity, how would their spaces be different than nonbinary spaces? aren't they the same?
When I came out as a nonbinary trans man - I had a popular nonbinary account drag me as a "binary-aligned nonbinary" and call me out by name for it... at this point I've just experienced so much gatekeeping and misgendering around what sort of identities I'm allowed to hold without contradiction, what sort of pronouns I'm allowed to use (he / him is too "binary"), and what sort of gender presentation I'm allowed to use *within nonbinary spaces* that I don't feel like connecting with that community or using that terminology anymore. I prefer "gender expansive trans guy" now because there's less of a moral / privilege class connotation with the term while conveying a similar feeling.
I'll be honest, I kept my masculinity in the closet a lot longer and have procrastinated my medical transition for years because certain things were presented as "too binary" and even sometimes "patriarchal" and therefore off limits for me.
11:13 "The term binary trans people is sometimes used as a stand in for conservatives or assimilationists." "To be privileged is to be politically inferior, and to be repressed is to be virtuous."
I'm finally watching this. Excellent work. I suppose the main thing I'd want to say about the term "binary trans." I am a transexual man. (Note: One "s" following the radical manifesto written by Sandy Stone). Many nonbinary people have called me a binary trans person. But I reject the term binary trans person as having anything to do with me. Why? Because I do not believe that gender is a binary. As I have going back to the trans conversations of the 1990s, I view gender as a spectrum not a binary. I may exist on one of the poles of that spectrum, but that doesn't make me binary. I can't be binary, because there is no binary. Other trans people deciding my identity is binary trans man, imposes upon me the idea that I support and believe in the truth of gender as a binary (which then makes me seen as the enemy of good and forward thinking trans people). But I don't, and I don't appreciate being framed that way by people I think of as being a fellow travelers.
On the topic of intersectionality regarding race, one of the usual attacks on trans men is that trans men only transition in order to get male privilege. And of course it is better to be a trans man than it is to be a woman. But...I am black. Transitioning into black manhood did not make my life safer. It isn't great to be a black man under white supremacy.
I once got to see Les Feinberg talk to a bunch of 1990s Genderqueers, who were disdainful of transexuals (what today would be framed as nonbinary vs. binary trans people). Les Feinberg, who was genderqueer, said to the group, "If you are going to fight that gender is a spectrum, then you must also defend the poles." That was a very important moment for me as a person who identified as on the poles...but 100% on the same spectrum as my genderqueer comrades. To fight for all of us on the spectrum, those on the ends and the middle, and then only to have those folks in the middle turn around and push me into the same camp, not as them, but as our collective oppressors...that...is very hurtful. Anyhow...I am a transexual man, but I do not support the notion of rigid binaries, and that includes the new binary/nonbinary binary.
The video was great, but honestly this comment is my favorite part
the idea of nonmedicalized non transitioning non-binary is kind of new to me. I see some people like that on line, but it’s really different than the non-binary person I am and have met. Most of us are going though some sort of medical transition. Most of the feelings I have about binary trans people is that I’m worried they will think I’m a transtrender and then things about passing. Like after I under go the medical procedures I want and am in a body I am comfortable with I will be in more danger because I will be even more visible trans. I think this is something that’s really just a trans problem in general though.
I just haven't identified something physically with my body that makes me feel gender dysphoria. It doesn't change how my mind feels gendered, whether fluid or between the binary.
I've been giving truscum and transmeds grief IRL for almost 15 years, their ideas have certainly become much less popular over that time.
I have no doubt you've had plenty of experiences that reinforce that fear, but I just want you to know that some of us have been fighting those dickheads years before Tumblr ever launched.
Never met you, hope you feel loved anyway♥️
20:47 "Maybe in a perfectly equal world, I would *just* be a woman..." THIS. As a cis-gender woman, I relate to this so much. I find myself absolutely hate society's expectations of women, and more and more rejecting the idea of being one. Hope we can live in a world where there's no labels of any kind, where we are all just humans
I love hearing you speak, but I am watching this as a nonbinary person and this is new and jarring to listen to. I've sometimes referred to myself as a nonbinary trans guy (keyword being sometimes) but I have never used "binary" when referring to trans people who do identify with a "binary" gender nor do I assume that they're more privileged. I usually assume the exact opposite. This definitely gave me something to think about.
Yeah, I think most nonbinary people are that way, and not really trying to beef with trans women!
I watched on patreon and am commenting for the algorithm!
it was so fascinating to see this binary/nonbinary conversation centered on transfeminine experiences!
i think a lot of afab non-binary people (including me) experience a very particular power dynamic between themselves and assimilationist trans men.
we then generalize that experience and assume that trans women who follow the transition steps discussed in the video occupy that same political and hierarchal position.
firmly grounding the conversation in a transfeminine frame of reference reveals how unsuccessful afab people are when we attempt to generalize our intra-group conflicts in this way
That’s so interesting! I hadn’t considered that - it does make sense though
Haha interesting topic cause I’m as binary as it get. Im a dance major who wants to do ballet and am femme. I don’t even identify as trans I just factually am one cause I’m amab and wish I was born a girl so deeply. Im on the road to total stealth and forgetting how I used to present and so far it’s friggin great cause mentally I’ve always been this way and I can finally stop feeling imprisoned.
Yay, Dance Major! I hope your program is treating you well. I was a dance major and have been out of school for a little while now, and I am just now exploring my identity, but I have a good friend who ended up dropping out of the same program I had done and a lot of it had to do with the fact that the school and many dance institutions still are not safe environments for trans people. I want to be a part of the change to get rid of transphobia in the dance world.
@@robbimoore9226 I’ve lucked out and have as supportive of a program possible :D The dance department head is super nice and excited with my ambition and is helping me at every turn to get me as far as I can. Thé theatre program in general is also super inclusive and we have tons of gnc people in it!
I really do hope this video acknowledges that binary trans people have fought hard to be seen as their binary gender, and that binary trans people can belong as much to that binary identity as a cis person! Those are just the worries that pop into my head as a binary trans person who's been invalidated a lot. That being said: I trust you to be nuanced, I'm sure I have nothing to worry about 😅 Looking forward to the video!!!
Do you feel like the video acknowledged that binary trans people fought hard to be seen as their binary gender?
Why not watch it and find out? Unfortunately the way RUclips has implemented comments creates and incentive for people to make comments which ignore the substance of the video - such as by allowing comments before publication, inviting speculation, or by ranking comments by their likelihood of creating engagement, where all "engagement" is considered equally worthwhile, and voting for comments is like a game or a battlefield of opposing slogans and talking points rather than a way of identifying meaningful discussion. We need a "TS;DR" feature, as a start!
But in answer to OP, at 29:50 the video argues precisely that demanding membership of a binary gender is inherently radical and is a hard-won right.
But the video goes further: rather than simply recognising the liberation struggle of binary or non binary trans people, it explores how both embody the same contradiction within sexist ideology and the sexist oppression which it justifies. Although this contradiction manifests differently for different trans people, and sometimes generates different kinds of oppression, the principal aspect of the contradiction and the source of the primary antagonism is still male supremacy, as justified by sex essentialism, or in other words the reification of gender inequality.
People feel the need to have their oppression seen and acknowledged. The same is true when it comes to acknowledging identity in and of itself. But oppression is not identity, it is a dynamic thing, and it is a result of conflict over material contradictions. These contradictions themselves arise from the way society is organised. Pure recognition, rather than being empowering, can sometimes cause people to treat non-antagonistic contradictions antagonistically. The oppressive primary contradiction (that is, sex essentialism and gender roles) gets taken for granted while people fight over how they relate to it. The point is to reject the principal aspect of the contradiction.
With that said, secondary contradictions, such as the use of sexist ideology by both the assimilationist and the isolationist camps (the latter more perniciously), do matter. The correct way of solving these is not to ignore them, but to promote understanding, identify horizontal oppression, identify and criticise the use of sexist ideology and unite against the root cause of these secondary conflicts.
The video does a good job of exploring how sexist ideology manifests in intra community discourse and the harm that results. It acknowledges the oppression faced by binary and non-binary trans people and the differences in how that oppression is reflected at an ideological level.
Wow! that was so fascinating! thank you. But must say that's a crap-ton of Identity politics and Intersectionality! how do y'all deal with it?
@@jimcrelm9478 I did watch it. I just wanted to know if op has felt their question answered, weird diatribe in the beginning....
@@lunaumbra5179 I was talking to Lachlan, I actually upvoted your post because that was exactly what I wanted to know, too. Sorry if it came off as hostile and misdirected.
I've predicted before that while I am "non-binary" that even the language of "non-binary" could be eventually replaced, whether it's returning to genderqueer or finding other words or letting go of it all together, since "non-binary," as much as it has emotional meaning to me now, is a weird paradigm and has all of the problems you point out. Having been on the receiving end of hostility from "binary trans women" this conflict between non-binary and "binary" trans people feels artificial and painful. Not to mention that so many non-binary people now feel discomfort around using "trans" and there are even surveys like the (now infamous in NB online discourse) Williams Institute labeling nonbinary people as cis. 🤦
It's a struggle because I am not a man and I am not a woman. I've always felt disconnected from gender and having spent decades of self-exploration and working through denial, I am sure of this. I'm not a man, but I'm not a woman. And I would be happier and more content with some avenue of being recognized and using only gender neutral pronouns. Culture is not static and is meant to change, but creating more boxes for myself and everyone else is not what I ultimately want.
Edit to add: You've described so many aspects of trans spaces online that have bothered me. In past videos, and this video. I'm really impressed with how insightful and well crafted your arguments are. Good work.
Have you looked into the term agender? I'm sure you have, since you said you've looked around. Nonbinary didn't fit quite right with me either. Eventually I settled on agender and it feels much more like who I am. I try to spread the word on agender because it's usually overlooked or never talked about, but through comments and such I see a lot of people who would relate to it. Not saying you will, but I always wanna spread the word :P
@@TwixtheFox Yes, I relate to agender, but many people consider agender under the bigger nonbinary umbrella since generally non-binary is conceived as "not the binary" and encompasses a lot of different identities (not as a third gender - which is how it's often depicted in cis media, unfortunately). I've thought of introducing myself as agender, but go back and forth on it for personal reasons. There are also "gender apathetic" people, which I really used to relate to, but then as I grew older I feel less apathetic about being seen as a man or woman and more inclined to be seen as neither. I just keep in mind that descriptions and terms are fluid since culture itself is in flux and people find new and different ways to describe themselves, especially since a sense of self has so many different personal and individual facets to it.
@@TwixtheFox I should also note that (strictly personally speaking) it's not exactly that non-binary doesn't "fit" for me. In a technical sense, it works as a description. I'm middle-aged, so I've lived through a lot of different terminology in queer spaces. But, related to this video, rigid categorizations of gender in general feels troubling. To me, it seems to replicate a lot of typological thinking (which has roots in the Euro colonial era), rather than describing some kind of inherent truth about human diversity. It doesn't even feel particularly useful sometimes. A lot of people seem to latch onto queer terms as defining something of immutable and being all important, when it's really just words people create to describe something more abstract and complex. In other words, the words can change as much as we want while the people underneath remain the same and deserve respect regardless. So it is troubling to see a lot of division and hostility around gender conformity in trans spaces online.
Can I just say that I am so glad to have stumbled onto your page? I really appreciate your nuanced approach to these topics and as someone who has felt left behind by much of the disk horse and conversations surrounding trans women, I feel such a kinship with your words. Really hoping to get to a point where I can afford a subscription to your Patreon.
Thank you so much! Really glad to hear they make you feel seen. Please only follow my Patreon if you can afford it, I'll be good either way :)
The whole video, I kept thinking of Leslie Feinberg's call to assimilationist "transsexuals" to come out as "transgender" as part of the fight for gender and queer liberation in "Transgender Liberation." Especially Feinberg's framing of our community as a movement against cissexism and heterosexism using a collective action framework, as opposed to an individualized identity framework. It's frustrating to me that while the term transgender was popularized as a term separate from the pathologized and medicalized "transsexual" label that included anyone who transgressed the gender binary, but as you observe, some people have seemingly reduced it down to a politically correct synonym for transsexual and a medicalized identity again. And the fact that using medication to burst open the sex binary isn't seen as radically expansive like Harraway's Cyborg Manifesto, but characterized as conformist makes me feel how deeply neoliberalism as infected our online spaces and systemic analysis and collective action is not even imaginable.
It also got me thinking about your discussion on MOGAI paired with Torrey Peters' metaphor of the juvenile elephants - that so much of the current generation of, especially white, trans and non-binary people have come to their understanding individually online without a community to ground or mentor them in our history and collective action.
I also had to laugh a bit thinking about how I might be characterized by some. I explicitly identify to people as a non-binary, genderqueer, and genderfluid trans woman (though to introduce myself that way is a bit silly! :D ). But I am definitely gendered or have gender attributed to me as a man or woman most the time. I have to explicitly voice that queerness for anyone to know it.
And it was actually an even bigger obstacle pursuing hormone replacement therapy in a way that wasn't predicated on a the transition pathways or narratives of being in the wrong body and wanting to pursue complete sex reassignment. Access to gender-affirming care has often been gatekept by cis people presuming a person wants a transition across the binary rather than as a way of living bodily autonomy. I'm ranting, but my trans womanhood is definitely not binary and my non-binariness is inherently trans to me. I'm ranting, but just wanted to reflect some thoughts and affirm so much of this from my own experience because you've expressed it all so well!
Your first paragraph is everything ❤️
What could talk about in your final paragraph about Cis people gatekeeping medical transition reminds me of my distaste for the term gender confirmation surgery. People to not typically get that surgery to confirm their gender, as genitals do not dictate gender. People medically transition because they want to. Perhaps to be comfortable in their body, perhaps to alleviate dysphoria, perhaps to gain euphoria, and many other potential reasons. But usually not to confirm gender. Similarly, I heard a voice training therapist say that she helps Trans people make their voices sound the way that confirms their gender- as someone who intends to undergo voice training lessons someday, this explanation annoys me. I want my voice to sound more feminine and I identify as a woman, yes, but I do not want my voice to sound more feminine to make me feel like a woman- I know I am a woman. I want my voice to sound more feminine because that would make me feel more comfortable.
I really like your comment. I wish we could have more intra-community discussion about medicalization, outside of the arguments of terfs and conservative media. I still think it's a nuanced subject that we as a community should neither condemn nor normalize without question, because although surgery and hormones have radically challenging results to the gender-sex system (and I need to read that Harraway book), they don't always originate from radical intents, and I think there's a lot of "socially and mediatically-fostered dysphoria" we need to adress and dismantle. Hormones and surgeries are also things that are sold to us as marketable individuals and communities, even after we're attacked for pursuing them.
I don't want to be misconstrued as advocating for medical gatekeeping, as I think we should have the individual right to choose any treatments we find necessary, but I would also like to bring this argument inside the community without sounding like a "binary-hating" enby person.
I know I've commented here before like twice I am literally a crazy person but I have more thoughts on this: there's really intense medical gatekeeping around non-binary people that I feel is very rarely acknowledged, and I wonder if a consequence of the emphasis on non-binary identities being valid even if they don't desire to transition is that the concrete reality non-binary people face regarding things like Informed Consent for SERMs, finding endocrinologists knowledgeable about more diverse kinds of transition, etc is overlooked. I think that like for "binary" trans people the notion that transitioning is the default for non-binary people is incredibly wrong. People *don't* want us to transition. There is extreme, systematic exclusion of non-binary people from transitioning, from even finding basic information regarding their options for transitioning, and so rarely is this discussed or talked about or fought back against. There is *one* medical paper I have found attempting to research the efficacy of kinds of non-binary transition, and it was published this year. Even finding photographic references is basically impossible. It's a shame to me that so much discourse online ignores our dire material reality in favor of presenting transition as "assimilationist," or "less non-binary," like it isn't a basic human right we're often entirely denied.
I feel this. Lately I’ve been trying to find visual references for non-flat top surgery, and I’ve had to sift through an insane amount of information just to find crumbs that are adjacent to what I’m looking for. My chest dysphoria isn’t less intense just because I want a non-traditional surgical result. There’s so little information available to me, and on top of that, I feel like the non-binary spaces I’ve seen don’t put enough emphasis on supporting people who want to explore the possibility of non-traditional medical transition.
I'm a trans woman, once I said I was trans and a cis person responded with "wow, the Testosterone is working wonders" I never been so confused in my entire life, I felt offended and at the same time kind of praised because I find many trans men beautiful and I like to be considered pretty but omg I never been so stunned in my entire life.
So why didn't you try to correct them or tell them it was a wrong to say? Until you call yourself maam you're going to be everyone else's sir
@@leonabarfield1560 The idea that a male bodied person is a man and vice versa is not an inherent fact of existence that people have to overcome it’s a construction of heteronormative capitalism
@@leonabarfield1560 maybe the original poster did correct them. That’s besides the point of their comment.
So obviously this is very dependant on context, tone, etc. but as a trans woman as well, the times I have been mistaked as trans masculine kind of had me glowing. Like despite being 6ft tall and having forgotten to shave that day, you misgendered me (accidentally, not maliciously) thinking I was AFAB? I will take that compliment.
@@mayabombanation9914 you get misgendered because they think you look male, and you're happy they think you're afab? Sweety they don't understand being trans that well, they're just saying you look like a man, like the testosterone is working well..
This was really great and I am excited to see your next video, that topic is really interesting to me!
//Gender oversharing lol
As a queer person living uninsured and under the poverty line, I feel like my gender is constantly in an internal crisis mode- medically transitioning is just not on the table for me. If I have the money to go to doctors I'm going to spend it on my tooth aches or weird lumps or my carpal tunnel syndrome before I can get to my gender. I've called myself a trans man, non-binary, non-binary transman, genderqueer, genderfuck- but my main experience of gender never changes. I'm still gendered as a woman, treated as a woman, oppressed as a woman, no matter what's in my twitter bio or what my friends call me or what pronouns I use. It's exhausting. I've had people tell me that if I was truly a binary trans man I would transition no matter what the cost. At the end of the day, I feel like the trans experience- non-binary or otherwise- heck, the *gender* experience, can't be defined by how we are oppressed.
I really love this video. I'm a trans man but I cannot say I identify with the binary in any sense. I am not a binary man because the binary will never view me as a man because I am trans. I am a man outside of the binary. Transness itself is transgressive of the binary because one of the main features of the binary is rigidity.
*raise hand* i'm a trans man and i identify with the binary tho.... what makes me less of a binary man than a cis man? some made up rules?
you do you tho bro i support you 🤙
Not going to lie, I saw the title and came here expecting to grab my torch and pitch fork, but this was an incredibly well thought out discussion about the gender binary.
I personally think of myself as a fairly "binary" trans woman. That said, my understanding of my gender is still fairly in its infancy, I've only been in the process of questioning and transition for about a year. That being said, I am well aware that I don't fully fall into the traditional "white woman" stereotype. And I'm ok with that.
Several times throughout the video, I had thoughts about what you were saying, but you then immediately addressed it as I was going to start a comment to log the thought, which is saying something about your writing style (hint: it's really good). Your points about how gender differs quite a bit even from culture to culture was excellent. Gender is this wiggly wobbly amorphous blob that everyone falls somewhere in or outside of, and that's great. But the strict gender binary is what hurts everyone. It is what prevents everyone from being able to express themselves in the ways they want to, it keeps people in rigid roles in society, it enforces a divide between people that honestly isn't there.
You said it well when you talked about how trans people show just how not that far apart the binary was, given that we are able to transition. People need to be able to just express themselves how they want, as the gender they feel themselves to be. Which, honestly, is a wiggly wobbly blob of a huge variety of thoughts, feelings, expressions, experiences and more. Trying to ascribe a binary to that is harmful and absurd.
Great video, and I'll definitely be watching some of your other videos, and looking forward to new ones!
I won't be able to catch the premiere but I'm watching it the second I can.
This channel is probably one of the best things I've discovered on the internet this past year, and it's amazing that these videos manage to tackle the topics they cover so well. I have no doubts this too will do the topic justice, which is great because it has been on my mind a *lot* recently.
Oh man, thank you so much. I hope you like it!!
Imagine the video is just "yes" than it ends.
Ultimate power move, hype this video up for weeks, then have it be four seconds long
Loved it, this video really resonated with my experience of transness. Thank you, Lily!
Thank you Verity, really glad you liked it :)
i feel like 'the politics of everybody' is good reading for people who want to follow the particular rabbithole involving identity as a stand-in for politics. it certainly helped me contextualise a lot of the intracommunity bickering (as a binary trans man)
also, i tried to read the alex v green post but its locked behind a paywall :( is it available somewhere else? google is not helping
Thank you, I'll have to give it a read!
The post isn't accessible elsewhere, but I highly recommend her other writing, lots of which you can find for free.
Great video! I’ve always found it frustrating that non-binary people are treated as some homogenous block. The only thing we have in common is Not Being Something.
I'm gonna preface this by saying this message is STUPIDLY long and very personal. If you don't read it, that's okay by me. I just wanted to share just how much your channel means to me and just how much you've helped me. I'm still relatively young, (mid-teens) so I apologize if the writing's a little choppy or flows weirdly in some parts. If you decide not to read the monster I've written, that's alright. I just want you to know that you have done so, so much good for me and changed my life SIGNIFICANTLY for the better. Thank you.
This is just me pouring my heart out into my keyboard and hoping it leaks through well enough to be legible. Sorry in advance.
I've been relatively comfortable in my identity and sexuality for as long as I can remember, but your channel has taught me so much more about the depths those concepts can go to. About the people I interact with on a daily basis, the friends who I talk to and am still growing up with, and almost every aspect of my world and the people in it. It's been so amazingly enlightening to be able to have multiple perspectives on certain issues, or even just the everyday life and history of who we are.
Like many others, I discovered your channel through your retrospective on MOGAI, and it seems absolutely insane to me that your channel isn't VASTLY more popular. You create some of the most high-quality and amazingly made content I've ever seen, from this platform or otherwise. I genuinely can't put into words just how much your videos have struck a chord somewhere within me, how you manage to deliver so much important information in such a masterful way that it keeps me glued to my screen. I've struggled with severe ADD all my life, and yet you manage to keep me *hooked* on every single word, on every topic, every issue, every person, and every story you cover.
Somehow, you have managed to singlehandedly rekindle my love of learning. Something the school system stole from me, that I've been without for so, so long.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you *so much* for all that you do. You have showed me so much depth into so many topics, so many people, so much important history of our past and our origins that I had no idea I even needed to learn about. I mean, I despise writing, and I somehow managed to write all of THIS in one sitting. I guess it comes easier when it's about something I genuinely care about.
You and your channel have given me a whole new view on learning. That maybe I need to get up and get out there and ask those questions I've always been too disillusioned with the education system to ask. That maybe learning can someday be fun again, I just need to find what I really care about in order to enjoy learning about it. That maybe there's so much to this world I'll never be able to know, and that maybe, that's okay.
You don't know everything. I *definitely* don't know everything. But by showing me that there's still so much to learn, so much interesting and important history tucked away in every little slice of this world, so much crucial information that could be just sitting, boxed up in some forgotten corner of a nowhere town's library, waiting to be discovered, you have given me the motivation to go out there. You have given me the motivation to actually get off my ass and *do something about it* instead of abusing self destructive vices to numb the pain of my past mistakes and watching the world go to hell from my bedroom window.
You've shone a light into this dark slump of nothing and utter despair I've been stuck in for so, so long. You've given me something back I thought I had lost forever. You've given me so much to keep going for, so much reason for me to keep living. You've made me realize that my life has *so much more potential* than I ever could've imagined. Why would I waste away here, when I could go out and learn things of my own, and maybe even help others do the same? Why should sit in despair as I watch my world burn, instead of looking for a way to help fight the fire? Why should I do nothing with myself, when you have given me so much reason to go and make something memorable of my life?
And you know what? Even if I *do* go to that nowhere town and search every corner of that library, even if I *do* go to the furthest reaches of abandoned kingdoms and dead empires that used to be teeming with such intense life, even if I *do* travel to the most desolate reaches of the ends of the earth on my quest for knowledge, I might come up empty handed. I might not find anything I really care about. I might find nothing I really love.
But if I do, and if that happens, well... at least I'll have a hell of a story to tell the ones who'll listen.
And for that, and for you, Lily, I am eternally grateful. Thank you so, *so* much. I hope you have a wonderful life.
💗💜💙
p.s. I wanted to add this after finishing the video, (since I wrote this... thing... when i was about halfway through) but this isn't at all limited to your gender related videos in the slightest. no matter what you feel like making a video on or talking about, there will be those of us who will always want to listen. I'm glad you're branching out to something different now, even though I found you due to the gender stuff, as i know that can get really tiresome to talk about, especially in such detail as you've been. i'm really excited to see what you have to say next time!
I can’t tell you how much this means. I spun out in college and barely lasted a year, so a lot of this project has been me rekindling a passion for learning. I’m glad to hear it did the same for you. Thank you, genuinely!
As a genderfluid afab person, I want to thank you for this video and your take. You're spitting nothing but facts the whole time.
I think there's also something to be said about watering down on the non-binary experience to white, androgynous, "they/them", and afab, and how that harms the entire community, even people who technically fall under the non-binary label but don't self-identify as it (like me and a lot of my friends).
By labelling our fellow trans people in any way, we're literally do the very thing that cishet society has done to us our whole lifes.
I love this video!
Your closing thoughts about not making videos about this topic for a while really reminded me of Jesse Gender's new video on burnout. How as trans people we become experts about ourselves out of necessity to survive, and the more we push back on misinformation, these same pieces of rhetoric keep coming back from different places, overwhelming us to the brink of exhaustion. While I do love every video I've seen of you discussing gender, I think I'd be equally happy with a video discussing any topic you choose. Above all, please allow yourself the space and time to rest from these topics. They're worthwhile to have for sure, but can be very overwhelming if we don't take care of ourselves.
Honestly the developments around creating an image of what being non-binary looks like continue to fascinate me. I think that a lot of people tend to forget that the majority of queer labels didn't come from communities banding together to describe a mutual experience but a process of othering and exclusion, in other words we weren't described by what we are, but by what we were not.
I think the inherent ambiguity in that way of defining us is really interesting, because it actually doesn't provide much clarity at all as a definition, and few labels are quite as explicitly unclear as non-binary. Yes, there's something to be said about how the term, by using the concept of a binary in order to be defined, carries the assumption that the idea of a binary is an important thing to be distinguished from, but aside from that it's quite literally a free-for-all. It's without boundaries, and that means that it might even be inaccurate to call it an identity, because the sum total of what that identity would mean would be "not that other identity", and that's how I experience the term, a description that would be weird for me to call that my identity.
And that's why I find the creation of this non-binary image so fascinating. Like, I know people who do identify as non-binary, not as some vague gesture in the general direction of their identity (like my experience). I want to make it clear that I no way think "they're wrong about what non-binary means" or any of that nonsense, I just find it cool that this difference in experience exists.
I will say that the idea that non-binary exists solely as an identity for people is harmful though, and is where reductions like calling non-binary a third gender come from. These are attempts to bound something that isn't meant to be bounded, and whether they come from wanting simple answers to the question "what does non-binary mean?", or a capitalistic desire to treat being non-binary as a demographic to be commodified and sold to, they are something to be pushed back against.
We shouldn't shoulder the burden of giving others an easy way to understand us, especially when our defining label is one given to us that simply says "you aren't us, and that's important".
Wow it feels like the community discussion around being nonbinary or binary differs a lot between trans masc and trans femme communities
Edited for spelling
This is a conversation I’ve seen on both sides honestly, but probably mostly from AFAB folks who don’t take hormones
Great video. After the 'radical' queer period and the 'assimilationist' gay rights period, came the present situation, in which it is very difficult to differentiate the radical and the assimilationist elements of LGBTQ+ activism. Non-binary identities are both old and new. They have been around for ever, but up until recently people wouldn't think of demanding their recognition by the state and society at large. People sort of lived double lives and didn't really consider the possibility of extending aspects of LGBTQ+ subculture into everyday life. This impulse can lead to great things, or it can just create a new consumer demographic and a constituency controlled by some phony corporate influencers. People who place themselves in the radical/woke side of the divide without organizing politically will end up being as assimilationist as their 'problematical' counterparts, if not more.
I transitioned long enough ago that non-binary wasn't really the term of art being used, and at the time I didn't even have a personal comprehension of what being non-binary actually entailed. One interesting thing that I've noticed over the last decade is that what *is* or *isn't* considered binary within the trans community has shifted quite a bit, and where my identity used to "be" firmly in the binary camp, these days it seems to be more ambiguous, and changeable with respect to other people's definitions -- and I'm not sure I particularly like the idea of my identity being recontextualised at the whim of what someone else thinks is in fashion, or out of fashion.
We bout to get beyond woke and problematic
You get the best of both worlds here!
I related a lot to the way you talked about your gender, which I didn't expect lol. I'm AMAB and present pretty masculine, but due to being gay and autistic I've always had a very complicated relationship with masculinity, as if long ago I had been banished from manhood for being such an outlier and forced to exist on its outskirts, in a no man's land kinda, disconnected from mainstream society.
'Nonbinary' is a label I've tentatively embraced as a result for the last five years or so, since the age of 16. But I've always struggled a lot to relate to other nonbinary people, since to me it's not a matter of craving a more gender nonconforming presentation, feeling somewhere between womanhood and manhood on the gender spectrum (what does that even mean, honestly?), getting dysphoric at being gendered as a man... for me it's not like that at all, it's just that I've been time and time again so alienated from manhood by other guys due to my autism and my gayness making me fail to conform to the masculine ideals set up for me by society, that I basically just gave up, and as I did I unconsciously started conceptualizing myself as something different than a man (well, not exactly, what I said before about feeling as if I had been exiled to the outskirts of manhood encapsulates better how I feel about it). If I understood correctly you're also tentatively embracing the nonbinary label for similar reasons, not because the term itself or the idea of being somewhere between womanhood and manhood resonate that much with you.
You also said that until releasing this video, you had only told a handful of close friends about it and that you didn't feel any drive to start announcing yourself as nonbinary, change your pronouns, etc. Well, same for me. 'Nonbinary' is a label that has been a part of my identity for almost a quarter of my life, but it's always been so in a private and personal way. And that's also why I agree with you this idea of binary privilege and nonbinary oppression is absurd: I'm not the most privileged person in the world, not by any means, but the oppressions I have to deal with aren homophobia and ableism, not enbyphobia, let alone transphobia. I don't conceptualize myself as cisgender, but neither I do as transgender, I truly don't think it is my place to claim that label (nor does the idea of claiming it appeal to me in any way), my life is undeniably much more similar to the life of a gay, autistic cisgender man than to the life of a gay, autistic transgender person, and transphobia is something I've never had to deal with on my entire life not once, which doesn't sound much like the life experience of a trans person. The idea of "binary privilege" has never made any sense to me because of this, it's obvious to me that from the moment that there're people like me how are nonbinary but are universally taken as a cisgender guy, there's no way my gender puts me on a more oppressive situation than that of a trans person who is often or always taken as a trans person.
Also, I still benefit from sexism (maybe to a much lesser extent than a neurotypical straight guy, but I still benefit either way). And in a way, I think that makes a man, no matter how alienated do I feel from manhood. I don't think people are what they feel they are, people are what they are. I'm a person who benefits from male privilege. Therefore, a man, in some way. I'm a person who feels extremely alienated from the male genre and who isn't a woman. Therefore, nonbinary, in some way. And this is why I've also identified a lot with your last bit in the video. As I've said I'm not trans, but even I feel like our current notions of what a nonbinary person is and what a "binary trans person" is aren't good for me. I feel like they leave little room for all the nuances that I'm trying to encapsulate in this comment (for example saying that in some aspects, like how the power dynamics of patriarchy effect me, I'm undeniably a man, something that if said by "a binary trans woman", Natalie Wynn for example, would earn her a lot of harassment and accusations of transphobia (which I find ironic since she's the one who is trans and I'm literally not, I really don't get how some people could get the idea that someone like me would suffer more enbyphobia than a "binary trans person" suffers transphobia).
Really appreciated hearing takes from a transfem! I’m transmasc so I usually see takes from that perspective.
I really liked the point you made about “womanhood not being a monolithic experience.” I actually think this ties in nicely for transmasc experiences as well! I’ve had lots of people tell me that trans men can’t experience unique oppression due to being a man and that trans men have male privilege, but that ignores SO MUCH intersectionality! How can one experience male privilege if they’re not stealth? Many of us will never pass, what then? What about a closeted trans man?
Many people, even trans people, want to split gender up into this like man vs. woman type thing, a la “if trans women don’t have male privilege then trans men must have it.” But that’s not right. Male privilege is super complicated. A part of it, for example, is not having people, like, catcall you on the streets. But I’ve had people do that, I still feel very unsafe walking alone at night, even though I usually pass as a man now.
Disabled men also would not have the same experiences with male privilege that abled men do. They’re still men, but it’s such a different experience that you can’t just make blanket statements like that.
I think in general, the trans community itself resists blanket statements and binaries.
I don’t remember where I saw it, but once I saw someone say that every trans person can either be categorised as a ‘scary man’ or a ‘helpless woman’ depending on which is more useful for a transphobe. And I think that’s really true.
I loved this. I feel like much of the transgender spaces I've had access to are centered around the ideals of acceptance and representation. I appreciate your more materialist angle in discussing these topics. Also, I'm really glad you'll be doing your next video on something you're passionate about that maybe is less heavy/stressful to cover! Looking forward to it :)
I'm only halfway through and you've made me ask a question beyond "general trends" that I've never asked myself.
And it should've been so obvious to me lol
So instead of "women are typically [this or that]":
what can you say about *every* woman and yet about *no* man?
nothing really, it's just interconnected subjectivity. There's no objective womanhood or manhood.
The only thing I could say for sure about a woman I don't know is that they're a woman. Whatever the heck that even means, right?
I want to pick your brain a little bit if you don't mind, but before I go any further I just want to assure you that this is not meant to be transphobia. I'm literally a trans guy myself, I'm just an extremely skeptical one and I try to listen to all viewpoints about transgenderism as a whole, I think that's so important. I have to give this disclaimer because I've gotten blocked by people before who see me asking questions and get freaked out. So please understand that. I just want to ask you a question, I don't hate trans people lol (again, I am one).
I saw this comment and I'm wondering what you think about the "b-b-but chromosomes" argument. If you're aware of Contrapoints in one of her videos she discusses this and if I can recall, her response was that chromosomes can't be a classifier of gender because we weren't aware of them until 1882, and obviously gender existed before that and people were men and women before that. That's all well and good, but I saw a comment on Reddit once talking about this, and it brought up the point that we also used to think that the Earth was the center of the universe, but that doesn't mean that it ever was, so why are chromosomes any different. And I have to admit that's not a bad point.
You say there's nothing we can say about every woman and no man; I guess this is my long-winded way of asking if that's really true. If someone were to tell you that it doesn't matter how I perceive someone's gender, whether they're trans or not, the *objective* truth is that their gender is what their chromosomes are, how would you respond to that? How would you respond to a person that's able to separate all the social elements of gender and perhaps even hermaphroditism from their chromosomes?
@@Lamsus854 chromosomes truly have nothing to do with gender. you can be born with xy chromosomes and be afab and you can be born with xx chromosomes and be amab. i was born with xxy chromosmes and that doesnt inform my gender identity.
@@Lamsus854 there are chromosome sets beyond xx and xy. Even then it doesnt work and is not a binary
What can you say about every women and yet about no man?
Truly a nuanced way to look at it. I can't even say that "every woman is a woman and no man is a woman" because there are plenty of non binary identities like bigender, genderfluid, etc, that include being both either simultaneously, partially or sometimes one and sometimes the other. So really, a woman is a woman, but a man can be a woman. Even the word itself is not 100% self-referencing.
@@Lamsus854 You can't be asking that for real, if you don't understand the difference between sex and gender then that's the first effort you have to make. I struggle to believe you're a trans guy if you don't understand something so basic, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You should give it more thought.
Thoughts before this comes out: I interpret "binary trans" as a person who is trans but doesn't identify as nonbinary. I'm sure that's a typical definition. And then aren't most trans people binary? Or at least it seems like more identify as such than self-identify as NB.
Maybe separating trans between non-binary and binary was a mistake? Aren't all trans ppl breaking the gender binary that was imposed on all of us, by the sole fact of their existence, of their lives, of their realities ?
@@jess3162 I mean, what you're saying isn't in contradiction with what I'm saying.
Yeah you can just be a trans woman minding your own life and just having fun, your existence is still outside of the gender binary regime, doesn't mean either that you're not recognized and simply living as a woman, but you transitioned to get to that point, which isn't something that's supposed to happen in this system, thus already breaking the binary whatever is on your mind!
And I think I don't need to tell you that this cissexist system wasn't and will never be made with a place for trans women, even the most so-called "binary" ones.
@@DrAbadie Yeah I sometimes think that too. Like that being trans IS defying the gender binary, as are trans-adjacent things like GNC and cross-dressing.
@@DrAbadie I feel it's a kind of unfair assertion, since binary trans people still have social categories / ways of thinking to fall back on or strive for. You (in general) have a goal, while for nonbinary people it's impossible to be treated by their gender is socienty, no matter what, not to mention that binary genders are naturalized and nonbinary genders are often portrayed as "made up"
@@Cherry-ki3ln I really sympathize with that struggle, but trans women are told far too often that we will never meet the goal. And we don't all have the same goal, its not the same fixed point on a spectrum that we are "striving" for. I know there are so many assholes who do not even believe in gender identity beyond the binary, and that does suck. However, many of those same people hold the belief that you can never transition and that your birth gender and assumed chromosomes are your destiny. Still, that's not even scratching the surface of people who support trans people but still have implicit biases against them. In what way would that lived experience even begin to be upholding the structures of the gender binary.
Thank you for saying that no one is truly binary. I have never bought into the concept of feminine traits and masculine traits. People are individuals and display individual traits.
and there are people who are so self evidently at one end of the spectrum that questioning the purity of their identity is not good allyship. it is very invalidating for someone to tell you they know you more than you know yourself and as LGBTQ+ people we have all been traumatized by this same kind of criticism and internalized the abuse. if there are people who identify as binary then there are binary people.
Good point. I agree that people should identify they way they feel most comfortable. I just don't want people to feel they have to behave in a certain way because of the gender they have been assigned.
Saying nobody is binary is as hateful as saying nobody is bisexual. You are denying the experiences of others to validate your own morms.
@@DanaTheInsane I think it is harmful to say that traits are inherently masculine or feminine, but since as a society we do that, are you saying that there are people with only masculine traits and people with only feminine traits? I’ve never met any.
meanwhile, me a very binary trans woman: oops i don’t exist apparently 😂
I’m a cis-bi mom to an agender lesbian; a cis bi daughter; a non-binary, heterosexual child; and a I’m a daughter to my mom who is cis-asexual. (Say that five times fast.) lol
I really appreciated this whole video and look forward to you both further contact about gender and sexuality as well as art and other things of interest!
I like how you give so much historical context to your topics. On that note, I think ww2 especially reinforced the gender binary. People in the west were desillusioned and looked for "natural" order to build morals of off, and men had a leg up, because they had fought and died.
Overall, I feel like this shows how "privilege" is really useful as a system descriptor and to vent frustration, but also a conversation ender that clashes with our idea that all opinions and experiences hold the same worth. I think we need to get better at using the term.
The note on marketing is interesting, and yeah, I mostly see brands in economically safe positions pander to the lgbt community, good point.
I'm not very anti-kapitalist, but I'm interested in what you do next and I'll find some middle ground for myself. Thank you once again for putting all of this together.
There's a lot of interesting points in this vid! The counter counterculture section put into words something I've been thinking about for a while too. 'To feel power instead of taking power' was pretty illuminating, so much of the way I've been told to be queer since I've come out is VERY performance based, based in the known 'culturally valid' methods of expressing queerness. I want the world to change so I can sincerely get into where I want to be without needing to be acting out a sort of cultural carnival of materialism and drag race catchphrases. Or somewhere where queerness doesn't have to be this unrealistically extraordinary existence, to celebrate the everydayness of the self.
I hear that for sure! I’m really liking living a boring life lately lol, tho I think on the lesbian end of the spectrum there’s less expectation to be really outgoing and extravagant
Dunno I guess I've always defined 'binary trans woman' as 'a trans woman whose gender identity is woman'. For me it doesn't have any of those other assumptions you named in the video tied to it. I don't think you have to transition in order to be a binary trans woman. In my experience, binary trans women don't tend to be conservative AT ALL. Maybe I'm just not as involved in the same spaces/conversations you are, but yeah no as a nonbinary person, I don't think I'm on a different political 'side' than binary trans people. That hadn't really occurred to me. Unless that binary trans person is Kalvin Garrah, Caitlyn Jenner or Blaire White, then yeah.
Or maybe that's because I'm a (medically and socially) transitioning nonbinary person so that already puts me closer to the cultural idea of a binary trans person? But I'm really really not that either, because I'm one of the 'neithers'. (Simplified but you've got nonbinary people who are 'both' 'neither' 'in between' 'fluid' or 'something else entirely'.) I guess it is true that I clash with the people who are like 'we should completely demedicalize trans-ness, hormones over the counter for everyone who wants them' and I'm just sitting here like 'Mmmkay but then how am I going to access top surgery? I can't get one of those over the counter. And who's going to do hormone level checkups?'
For me the binary/nonbinary divide is mainly just about whether your gender identity is binary, but it's also partially about giving in to trans people who hate on nonbinary people. Like, 'oh you don't want me in your community? That's okay, I've got my people here in mine'. Nonbinary people are my people. That's my community. I relate to other nonbinary people on a level I don't relate to anyone else. I feel safe with them in a way that I don't in the general trans community. I know they GET it.
So I'm not on board with 'well but nobody is really binary' because that means 'everyone is a little nonbinary,' including cis people, which means I lose that community. It's like the 'everyone is a little autistic' thing. Like no. Having a couple of traits does not make you 'a little autistic'. It's a neurodevelopmental thing, not a 'couple of traits' thing.
This isn't about you, though :/
@@pedroantonio5565 Sorry did someone force you to read my comment?
I understand the feeling of wanting your own community where you feel safe, and in many cases it's even necessary for safety from society, even physically, let alone feeling safe in your own head. However this situational need doesn't inherently undermine the fact that the gender binary itself is a bit of a constrictive concept for everyone, it doesn't encapsulate anyone's biological or experiential reality fully, whether they identify with or pass as one or the other exclusively or not. Likewise, neurotypicality is just that: what is typical. Nobody is fully developmentally 'standard' either, even those we presently classify as neurotypical. Biology is messy, and human experience is even messier.
'Medicalization' or lack thereof is a discussion that is presently tied to our current capitalistic industrial system that requires a state to intervene to grant its citizens whatever resources it deems them worthy of, so I think it's important to keep in mind what parts of 'medicalization' people are likely rejecting when they state such objectives. It means dealing with more middlemen between the product and the consumer when something is 'medicalized', and more teeth behind the social stigma associated with it. More avenues for their self-actualization to be roadblocked when the conversation shifts and it's suddenly more or less popular to allow for a certain type of therapy... less agency.
So, until our global medical systems are more in line with granting individuals agency and are less inherently political I'm going to be on the side of demedicalizing all that can be demedicalized. You do make a good point about surgeries, since I think you're right to say it's not practical to attempt to demedicalize anything in that vein any time soon, in terms of actually getting one if you want/need one, however. What practical demedicalization in that context could mean is to remove the stigma around getting one versus not getting one, and resisting political narratives that aim to restrict access of or impose them on trans or nonbinary folks.
I think that your rejection of the ideas themselves needs a little bit more nuance, and this is coming from a nonbinary autistic person.
@@beansworth5694 I guess that's fair. I'm obviously not against destigmatization and more access to healthcare and more bodily autonomy for trans people (heck gimme some of that informed consent asap please, the system I'm in is absolute horrendous gatekeeping sh!te, I'd barely even hesitate to call it evil and actively transphobic). Maybe I misinterpreted what the word 'demedicalization' is meant to mean.
I guess I interpreted it to mean that no doctors would be present in a transition trajectory anymore, which is obviously completely infeasible. Even for just hormones, regular checkups are important. Bodies react to hormones differently, so people need different doses to be healthy. I don't think there should be any roadblocks to getting hormones (bodily autonomy all the way), but that doesn't mean I think everyone should just DIY it with over the counter hormones and no guidance from endocrinologists (but if it's a choice between DIY and su!cide, then yeah DIY). GP's don't know their sh!t when it comes to hormone checkups, so until they do, endocrinologists need to be a part of the process. (And GP's need to start being trained because that's some bull, c'mon do your job.)
And surgeries... if we can keep it covered by insurance (I'm in Europe), then again, I want no roadblocks there either. But in our current capitalist hellscape I don't see how we're going to convince insurance companies to cover trans surgeries without diagnoses of gender dysphoria. It would be extremely easy for a company to claim that it's cosmetic without such a diagnosis. In fully automated luxury g@y space communism though, yeah heck yeah get rid of diagnoses, we don't need that sh!t.
So... if demedicalization isn't about removing doctors from the equation, what's it about? Just less roadblocks, less gatekeeping and less stigma? Because if so, it would take less than zero convincing for me to be on that side.
And about the biology is messy and labels don't fully encapsulate the infinite complexity thing, yeah agreed, but there's still large patterns. I don't think someone needs to be perfectly binary in order to accurately identify with a binary label, so I don't think it's fair to say there's no such thing as a binary trans woman. Labels are approximations and that's fine. Just because no chair perfectly fits the platonic ideal of 'chair' doesn't mean chairs don't exist, you get what I mean? I hope I'm making sense. I don't always make sense to people.
@@ryn2844 Thanks for replying, and doing so in good faith friendo c:
I just wanna clarify that I have heard people use demedicalization to mean actually removing any and all oversight as an end goal, including things like check ups that wouldn't restrict the patient's decision other than producing obligatory informed consent, so you might've not misunderstood whoever you were talking to that you've disagreed with this with. This is just how I understand the word, and I've also heard others use it in a similar vein of reasoning- I only went deep into it to point out that it's important to give your reservations nuance and to actually make sure you disagree with the person's interpretation of the idea before rejecting it. Because, like, the anti-science and naturalist/consumerist health industry also uses this word, and their usage of it might not be the most politically useful interpretation of the term.
I, personally, know very little about endocrinology or how the self is constructed in concrete neurobiological terms and will happily defer to experts in their respective fields to help me apply my philosophical and sociological convictions more appropriately. I just really don't like how whenever something becomes medicalized more middlemen other than the experts themselves get to infringe on patients' agency. I live in the US, and from my experience DIY is better than the circus show. It's more humanizing, even if it leads to worse outcomes during the trial and error period of trying to learn the science yourself... I realize this viewpoint of mine is slightly dysfunctional, but our system is even more so, so I think I'm still being reasonable here lmao.
Medicalization simultaneously means you *might* get more half-assed systemic support structures to help you along, but it also means that you're going to have a lot harder of a time not getting into legal trouble for helping yourself or a friend out. We're made to be either cash cows dancing on our toes for scraps or renegades... People should just be able to exercise transhumanism how they see fit under guidance that empowers us as individuals, or the existing structures should just get the fuck out of our way. To me, demedicalization is the threat behind that ultimatum: it's a demand for the medical establishment as a whole to apply their expertise in a compassionate manner that makes no compromises to special interests, or to lose their credibility.
On the binary/nonbinary divide: you're making plenty of sense to me, even if I don't fully agree. Labels can be useful, but the insistence of upholding them in spite of their obvious shortcomings is a bit philosophically bankrupt imo. Yeah, you can apply cisness as a label onto people and it be somewhat accurate according to the limitations of the word, but it puts people in a box that nobody actually *belongs* in. Biologically and psychologically, sex and gender alike aren't binary. Binary trans women exist in the sense that they conceptualize themselves as a woman and other people that are open and compassionate enough will too- but they're not widely viewed as a binary woman by society because they don't accurately fit the various markers of gender that we've constructed. To call this disconnect transphobia, and leave it at that, is a bit incomplete. A transphobe doesn't want to give up an essentialist framing of gender, and they're willing to enforce it through refusing to validate people who're unhappy with they were placed in at birth. Being critical of gender (in actuality, not the 'gender critical' people who just shit on NB and trans people) is fundamentally more of a queer concern than a transphobic one- to apply that critical lens to say 'there's no such thing as a real woman in the first place' is the exact opposite of what the transphobe is arguing. Let me give you some context on why this is pretty important to me, and why it's not just an academic question...
If you didn't ask me or I didn't offer it you wouldn't know that I identify as nonbinary. I am cis-passing AMAB, but I don't want to be excluded from nonbinary spaces on the basis that I'm 'too cis', because I don't want to be locked into this masculine male framing by people who would otherwise be on my side... is that selfish? Yeah. It is, but the reason I'm comfortable making this sort of request for openness even in spite of the knowledge there is a selfish desire to feel included behind it is because I genuinely believe that gender as a whole is a construct that's forced onto everybody without our consent, it's just more uncomfortable for some people than others. The binary doesn't fit anyone perfectly, and I think it'd be wrong to lock people in the closet because they're not willing to be *more* trans than they'd otherwise be comfortable with. Because that's basically just reinventing gender roles, but more of them that lie outside of the traditional binary lmao
As a non binary person who has dysphoria and is in the process of transitioning, thanks. The whole idea that no one gets to define non binary seems to vastly go over the heads of just about everyone in 'the community'. While I would never say anyone has to transition physically/medically, to say that transitioning is moving into the binary is way too common.
"With my hair short, my junk man-made, and my planet dying" this. This of all things will stick with me for years to come 😂 I really enjoyed the perspective and approach you brought to the table. You really covered alot of ground
I got an add for that new Clint Eastwood movie which started with something like "I'm tired of this macho identity." I just assumed it was part of the video for a couple seconds.
Good stuff, I always appreciate your videos.
I'm so ready for this video lily
Hope you dig it!! ❤️
❤️
Relatively recently I realized that I'm transfeminine; however any understanding of my gender beyond that was pretty murky. As someone who always felt more drawn to the "kind of androgynous, but in a femme way," aesthetic than a more stereotypically/traditionally feminine one, I wasn't sure what that made me. Part of that was internalized transmisogyny for sure ("If I don't do X, can I REALLY be a woman?" was a common thought), and part of it was just general uncertainty and dysphoria. This video has really helped crystallize a lot of my thoughts around gender; both the spoken contents of the video, but also simply seeing you present yourself in a way I hadn't really seen trans women present before. So thank you, both for this video and just putting yourself out there on the internet in general, you've really helped me expand on how I conceive of myself as I plan for my future. :)
I dislike the gatekeeping of GSRM experiences and specifically trans experiences. Gatekeeping around it held me back in my youth, despite me now considering myself a trans woman.
Gatekeeping and insider vs. outsider discussions seem like a common behavior among people. I think this is even more common among young people who are still forming their understandings of themselves. It certainly happens for pop culture topics like who is a “true” fan of some music artist.
I really loved this video. I totally agree on the meaningless division of binary and nonbinary trans. I especially liked your conversation of the fight to be trans without transitioning and how you framed it as a counter culture against the counter culture. I felt reminded of my parents arguing that anything would have been acceptable except medical and social transition. There was nothing deviant about my existence, only in changing my name, my pronouns, medically transitioning and so on. Though I do believe that this argument is missing some points. Largely that people rarely are trans without doing any form of social transition. I feel that this movement is largely to validate trans people who don’t check all the boxes of how their expected to present of behave. It’s harder to have someone respect your pronouns if you’re not on hormones, and it’s harder to have someone recognize your gender if your pronouns differ from them. In many countries you still can’t get your gender marker changed until you have bottom surgery, and in many others you can’t get hormones unless you plan to get bottom surgery.
I think there definitely is still a deviance in not conforming to the idealized standard of transition and not conforming to cisgender society.
So glad your MOGAI video happened to cross my radar a some months ago. I feel like every one of these essays leaves me with a sense of almost spiritual expansion. Which is to say, I really appreciate your perspective. Hope you have a good day. :)
Thank you!
ms. minerva p kelley doing voice-over in video essays is what i didnt know i was missing
Great video :).
I appreciate how you structure arguments in a way that they can be accepted without necessarily accepting a specific worldview wholesale. This is an issue I think hits a lot of leftist content creators- their arguments tie so many things into so many other things that persuading anyone who doesn't already agree with their entire paradigm becomes an unlikely task.
I'm someone who disagrees with you profoundly on some important issues and likely always will, but a few of the points you raised here have moved the needle slightly- in particular the point about capital and the veneer of queerness without the material demands.
Thank you!
Not constructive, just saying I love your top. The blocky 80s cut, the Japanese indigo ink... The effect is aesthetically very pleasing and gives both calm and energy.
So glad someone mentioned your vids in the comments re: a Jammidodger vid. I have thoroughly enjoyed three of your gender vids now - intellectually thought provoking… well reasoned examination of multiple viewpoints. Also, I appreciate hearing about gender from a person under 30. I am a cis straight white north-american woman (whatever that mouthful means!?!) who is fully in love with, and proud of, my 20 year old bi trans son and I’m looking to gain a better understanding of him without relying on him to educate me… at least not only him. He’s got a life of his own to live, after all, and it’s much bigger than just his gender☺️
That Susan Stryker essay had me screaming at my phone I got so amped up! She articulates my pain in a way I never can find the words for, and brings me to tears when I read her work. "The same anarchic womb has birthed us both... heed my words, and you may well discover the seems and sutures in yourself"
While I personally do identify as the sometimes hated trans fem binary woman, existing in a non-binary space is just my reality. I will always have some level of empathy with any member of the gender spectrum at this point of my awareness, and I've grown to become proud of my place as an outsider to all identities, as no one really ever fits perfectly anywhere.
It's empowering when I hear others speak within this community on the topic especially in the comments to this video!
Fantastic video :)! This is pretty much stated in the video but I think it's interesting that in gendery spaces there is usually a willingness to keep the NB radar on for people (and thus avoid gendering to a varying extent) who have less transgressive gender expressions, but most especially for people they think are cis. Binary trans women as defined in the video are not afforded the same courtesy, and it seems like a blind spot for people who most often distinguish between gender expression and gender identity.
Also glad to see criticism of the priority of identity. Identity is helpful for individuals, but it doesn't change much collectively in real life other than giving people something to realize they have in common. Now it's looped back around to division again :(
All around really great video, looking forward to future ones, even if they're different :)
I use female pronouns, changed my name to a female name, and pursued medical transition. I'm 'lazy' about the 'presenting as a feminine woman'. So i guess I qualify as Binary Trans, but... I kind of feel like a 70/30 split. I don't want to purge the masculine parts of me that I love just to attain some weird feminine standard. It feels like taking off one costume just to put on another, instead of seeking an authentic 'me'. When one cis woman found out I was trans, she said 'Oh, I just thought you were mannish.' When I started transition, 20 years back, 'passing' was a survival mechanism. Even now, I feel that pressure to conform to a binary standard. I don't claim to know what 'being a woman' means. Thanks for the video.
You have to be some uber feminine girly girl. Plenty of women are tom boys and masc
Dont** dont have to be uber feminine***
That's a great shirt. 31 y/o trans guy here. Identified as trans and/or nb for a decade before I got to start transitioning. (Where on the timeline the nb falls is not where you'd expect.) Just starting to conditionally exit "womanhood." The trans "versus" (🤮) nb discussion is quite the swamp. Enjoying your foray into it.
Having spent years in the "trans but not medically or legally transitioned" camp, and now well into those transitions, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. I won't say "privileges," because trans people don't oppress each other by having harder or easier lives. Having the ability to transition is a blessing. Having plausible deniability of your transness can be a boon. Are we going to weigh "gets misgendered a lot" and "fears safety in medical establishments due to transphobia?" I'd argue it's not moral or possible.
It's so refreshing to hear somebody so cleverly and simply articulate the divide between binary trans and nonbinary trans people, without bias towards either. I feel like I only hear people talk about this in an attempt to cast blame on the opposite ends of the spectrum and tear each other down to make ourselves feel better, we have to look past these stupid tiny differences and stand United or the cis will win, we cant let the cis win 😫
I related to you personally identifying as genderqueer rather than binary trans woman. If I woke up the next day and I was a cis man, I'd probably just identify as a man. But I have to go through a trans journey. I don't look like a typical man and that makes me feel more comfortable with nonbinary because in a sense my existence is nonbinary. If I only identified as a trans man, I'd feel like I was erasing a part of myself.
Even the binary of trans and cis feels a lil restrictive to me. Not saying it isn't an important distinction to make, just that I think there can be grey area even between two concepts seemingly so diametrically opposed. I've lived my life as a cis woman but because I am gay and gender non-conforming I have not always been treated like one. I find myself deeply identifying with the experiences of trans people even though I'm not technically trans. Internal and external experiences reinforce the idea I am some other gender, but I just don't feel invested enough in trying to describe that gender to myself or others. Using she/her pronouns and classifying myself as a woman is just what's expedient. So even though I align more closely with trans perspectives/experiences, I basically operate as a cis person & that's fine with me for now.
Oh absolutely, I’m with ya there
The thing is: (And I'm saying this as a trans woman): I've never bought into the whole, "Gender is a social construct", thing. Yes, there are social aspects to gender expression, and these can differ based on the society and country; -however, as most people who've been on hormones have experienced: there very much is biological and energetic aspect to gender as well. Testosterone (paired with a lack of estrogen) makes people more aggressive, it makes it easier for guys to take the initiative, etc. This does account, in my mind to much of the reason why guys often feel far more comfortable doing things like applying for job positions, whereas many women want to wait until they feel they have a perfect resume to do so. Likewise, as most trans women have experienced if they've gone on hormones (and especially after surgery and having not making testosterone anymore), estrogen and progesterone have a very visceral impact on the experience of emotions. Emotions often take on a very "high definition", aspect, when people take estrogen. And so some of the old "sexist" stereotypes about women being more emotional, in my experience may in fact have a grain of truth to them.
One of the things I don't like about a lot of modern gender theory, is it kind of blames everything on patriarchy and sexism, and ignores the possibility that while those things exist, that some of their causes might actually be influenced by how hormones effect the mind. Hormones are a drug after all, and most people are effectively divided two main categories of taking one cocktail of drugs, or taking a completely different set. And that is bound to effect the way people think and approach the world. And I've always felt that dismissing that and placing the blame for everything on "social causes" was a bit too simplistic, and idealistic.
And I think one of the pressures that may contribute to this "binary vs non-binary" tension, is it sometimes can feel that while non-binary people are correct that some aspects of gender expression are purely social: that they often don't seem to acknowledge that there are still biological aspects as well. Someone who identifies as non-binary but is still effectively a cis woman, who doesn't take male hormones: still is operating their daily life, under the "female cocktail of hormones". (Intersexxed people being an exception, of course). And so even though energetically, they may be non-binary, the drugs their body is having them take are still "the female drugs". And so on.
One of the things I was talking about with another trans woman friend of mine, is we were noting that trans men and trans women who are early on in their transition, and have not had any kind of surgery, often can get a little crazy. Because in both cases, they have all the emotional amplification of estrogen, combined with all the aggression and high libido of testosterone. And the result is you get a lot of trans women early on in their transition who act like middle school sluts, and you get a lot of trans men who act like little whiny b*tch boys, and neither has learned to mellow out. It's usually only after either get their gonads removed, and that they start to mellow out, and act like more mature adults.
And if I had to guess what a criticism of the non-binary people would be: is it's not that they aren't trans, it's rather that they often don't fully understand what it's like to transition one's body from one hormone cocktail to another. And that there is a very real biological effect on one's mind when one does that. It's a different kind of hill to climb than simply being a biological woman and putting on a flannel shirt and cutting one's hair short to look more masc. And the experience is not the same. Non-binary people deserve to be treated with respect the same as everyone else. But just because everyone deserves respect, doesn't mean everyone's experience is the same. Diversity means differences still exist.
As someone who identifies as a nonbinary trans dude who has gone through medical transition, this honestly hit home on so many points and I think a lot can be applied to the transmasculine side of the coin, too.
I think a big problem in the nonbinary community is that people are beginning to turn nonbinary into a binary gender, which completely erases nonbinary identities in the first place and assumes that all nonbinary people are perfectly androgynous and genderless and have no connections to either femininity or masculinity, or just the "right" amounts of both.
I really hope many people from all parts of the trans community will watch this video and really think about what gender, "binary", and "nonbinary" means to them and how we can work together as a community not to divide ourselves even more, but to learn to appreciate our similarities, differences, and everything beyond and in between that makes us who we are.
Thank you for this.
Gender is weird, I'm actually kinda glad that I've settled on being an enby. Though I do miss the days when you could call yourself the unspeakable q, and those in the know knew it meant something different to just being a cis gay man. Like I understand a transwoman's need to shake off an incorrect and painful old identity. I've had the talk multiple times with the siblings, and they still can't be bothered using they/them for me. But I feel for my self, that the femininity people often see in me, is really only my absence of masculinity. Since most people really can't conceive of someone being genderless, just as asexuality is a mystery to most sexual people. Yet I seemingly don't have to try at all to be me, whereas it's quite common for transwomen to completely reengineer their biology, in sometimes decades long undertaking. I often feel quite lazy in comparison.
I actually identify as a binary trans man the way I distinguish it is that I simply don't experience gender as the spectrum it is. I can only conceptualize myself either identifying as a man or a woman and this context solidifies the fact that am a man. It doesn't mean I don't believe that there is a spectrum or wholeheartedly support people at any place on it or outside of it it just means that I can't personally perceive it in the context of myself like a person being colorblind. It's the same way I distinguish the fact that I'm bi not pan I'm attracted to men and women and possibly non binary people but my attraction is gendered, I feel different kinds of sexual attraction for different gender presentations. Pansexuality seems to be completely regardless of gender it doesn't factor into someones attraction they don't see their attraction in a gendered context at all.
huh, that's really interesting! i'm also a binary trans man, but i think i do experience gender as a spectrum, i just strongly identify with one end of it and most of the stuff that comes with it. It makes me feel good to be associated with the end of the gender spectrum that i was unlucky enough not to start on
Awesome video. I'm a trans man that's been medically transitioning for five years (socially about a decade). I never felt the need to strive for a binary, though I'm much happier with my body now. I was never able to work out if I'm a binary trans man or nonbinary - Sometimes I feel exasperated trying to suss it out; I'd rather just let myself be who I am and not have to categorize it. Though I like using "GNC" (gender non-conforming) to describe myself because it speaks to actions and personal taste rather than internal identity.
This video really blew me away, you put into words a lot of what I've been pondering lately as someone who just started living as "stealth", great work!
People assume that I'm a binary trans woman right up until I open my mouth. Because I could never get the hang of voice training. I could never force myself to stick to the new inflection and pitch naturally. Because I already did this once, trying to masculinise my voice in my late teens.
My voice would never have been described as masculine when I was cis-passing, in fact, the opposite- it was always described as soft and gentle.
But it's definitely a "male voice"- it's not even as if I don't desire a more feminine voice, but I used to suffer with a lot of social anxiety and trauma , the way I speak is informed by a performative laddish confidence I adopted to better navigate social situations before I came out.
I can "audibly pass as a woman" on phone calls or around close friends with ease- but stick me in a social situation that makes me even slightly conscious of how I'm going to be perceived- and I fall right back into whatever I find most natural.
So people assume I'm just a binary trans woman who's fucking it up, or a non-binary transfem who just doesn't care about how she sounds.
In truth, I'm a non-binary a trans woman who's fucking it up. I essentially want the treatment allegedly afforded to the stereotypical "conformist" binary trans woman- but being non-binary isn't the barrier- I just don't pass.
And ultimately- I could be any of those things- and the way I'm perceived and treated wouldn't shift at all.
I was not disappointed! I'm glad to hear someone talk about the things I've been thinking and be able to articulate it in a way I never can.
I'm transmasc. I generally say I'm a trans man, but in a sense that I choose to be? Because what is a man anyway? It doesn't mean anything objectively and it certainly doesn't mean anything to me personally. I feel like I identify more with my transition itself than with my "binary" gender. I only started calling myself a man after I realized I wanted to start T. Prior to that, I always identified as nonbinary. 2 years on T, I call myself a man, but I still don't feel right calling myself binary. And I hate the divide between nonbinary and binary trans people because I can't comfortably rest on either side.
Can we just appreciate the density of sticky tabs in that copy of Whipping Girl? If my copy looked as worn and poured-over as that one, I'd be flashing it like it was a credential as well!
Great video and very much needed!
Thank you! And I really can't take credit, the tabs are from the guy who lent me the book haha
weight is another HUGE factor in terms of how people gender you. i can only speak to my experience as a cis woman (although i do know from listening to other trans people that they can be denied gender-affirming surgery due to their weight) but i often feel like i'm de-gendered because of my weight- like i'm not a "real" woman.
For the surgery there are technical reasons
The second Susan Stryker quote was so good I audibly gasped. I am absolutely going to read that essay IMMEDIATELY oh my god
Your points in the section "counter-counterculture" reminded me of this quote from Jodi Dean's book 'Democracy and Other Neoliberal Fantasies: Capitalist Communication and Left Politics': "When communication serves as the key category for left politics, whether communication be configured as discourse, spectacle, or publicity, this politics ensures its political failure in advance: doing is reduced to talking, to contributing to the media environment, instead of being conceived in terms of, say, occupying military bases, taking over the government, or abandoning the Democratic Party and doing the steady, persistent organizational work of revitalizing the Greens or Socialists" (32-33).
I like this quote a lot, thank you! It's also like, a fair criticism of this whole... leftist video essay thing.
@@lily_lxndr oh, no it wasn't meant as a dig at the video! I think the key (lol) part in the quote is the "KEY category for leftist politics" bit. Dialogue and discussion are still important, it's just not the beginning and end of things, or at least that's how I interpret it
Damn, I'm enby and this was a tour-de-force for me. I never realized how much my identity has been shaped by pursuit of incredibly fuzzy ideals, like acceptance, empowerment, validation. How much capitalism has sold me those things as part of my identity.
I really enjoyed this video. The divide between nonbinary and binary has kind of gotten to my head and I really appreciate a challenge to that. I'm currently questioning and exploring my gender, and have been identifying as nonbinary because I know I'm not cis, but like.. I don't really know my gender beyond that, it's a pretty nebulous feeling. I like that by identifying as nonbinary, people have no real expectations for what my gender is or what my presentation is or anything like that. But do I, truthfully, feel nonbinary? I dunno. I flip flop on whether I'm nonbinary or not, and it feels kind of off to me, because, as you spoke about in the video, surely we should be challenging the idea of the gender binary as immutable. And surely any crossing of gender boundaries does this challenging. I have been calling myself trans for a bit now, maybe I will just drop the "nonbinary". I do not feel binary, but I do not feel "not binary" either. I just feel like myself.
i'm a trans guy but i initially identified as nonbinary because i didn't think i "felt like a man". Same as you, i didn't know what feeling like a man or a woman was like, i just felt like me. i realized that it was more of a simplification than anything, afaik no one really feels like a man or a woman. And realizing that allowed me to focus on how i wanted to present, interact with society, and best alleviate my dysphoria (and also to realize i really did have dysphoria and i didn't have to experience mind destroying suffering to be trans, wooo). So all that led me to where i am today, and hopefully some of what i shared can help you figure out your own journey, at least a little =)
@@_Lyricris_ Well I'm leaning more towards thinking I'm a trans guy, and I've gone on a similar mental journey to what you have described. So it does help to hear that someone who has been down that path before me has had that experience, thank you :)
I feel basically exactly the same way. I spent countless nights lying awake in bed, trying to figure out if I'm a trans man or some flavor of nonbinary. The more I tried to figure it out, the more nebulous and confusing my feelings became... because I always just felt like "me."
So I gave up and started figuring out the material things I wanted to change about my life. I knew I wanted people to use he/him pronouns for me, I wanted everyone to call me things like brother/son/husband/boyfriend/etc., and I wanted to start testosterone. And now that I'm pursuing those goals, I actually don't care about finding a label for my gender anymore. I just tell people I'm a man because I hate explaining trans stuff to cis people haha. But if I wake up tomorrow and decide that "nonbinary" is a better word to describe my experience, that wouldn't actually change anything about my life or my transition.
I label myself as a binary transman. I don't see a negative connotation with the word. I do get slightly frustrated when people do see being a binary trans person as something negative. The assumptions seems to be that I really haven't thought about it enough, that I'm just putting myself in a box to fit in and be accepted by cis people. I don't see it that way, although maybe subconsciously it plays a role.
My line of thinking is, if a cis man doesn't fit all the masculine gender stereotypes and is uncomfortable with some of the expectations that are put upon men, that doesn't necessarily mean he is non-binary. If it's widely accepted for binary cis people to be binary, I feel the same should apply to trans people.
I feel like if I would label myself a non-binary transman, tons of now self identified cis man would have labelled themselves incorrectly. So maybe I do look at cis people too much for my identity, but at the same time I'd personally rather expand the definition as what a man can be, than label myself as non-binary. Also because the mainstream definition of how to "be a man" is very man, defining myself as a man and not fitting all the stereotypes feels more revolutionary than labelling myself as not a binary man. This is ofcourse still a very personal choice and feeling. I respect people that identify as nonbinary or any other gender for whatever reason.
i have found so many of your videos insightful and refreshing, especially as a transmasc person, because of your perspective as a transfem person. i think you make a very great point against the idea that "all nonbinary people are more opressed" and "all binary people are privileged". at the end of the day a bigot will mostly not care about the difference and all trans people should unite to help each other, no matter our circumstances, which are all incredibly varried. also, i am very excited for your next video!!! it sounds really interesting :DD
Also, my wife is a medically transitioning woman, while I'm NB. I was ignorant of a lot of the truscum/tucute Tumblr fueled toxicity that happened and, while I am glad to learn about it and discuss it, I am also glad that I missed it in my formative years (too old). This division between non-medical vs. medical transness has created very difficult structural barriers that trans people need to criticize. For instance, where we currently live there has been recent bureaucratic reforms that allow me to change my gender to X at any time through self-identification. I'm really happy for this, but what I'm not happy about is that my wife doing the same thing - changing to "F" - has taken her over a year and consultation with multiple medical professionals. I can't help but interpret this as governments both viewing nonbinary as less "real" and as less "threatening," whereas changing to a specific gender is heavily policed. This is why queer solidarity is so important. Division only creates more barriers and just changes what oppression looks like.
Truscum means i wont call a penis female genitals, or sleep with a penis person who “identifies female” and pretend a penis is not a penis. All I see is men trying to force an unwanted penis on the unwilling.
When I first saw the title I looked down at myself and went, yep, I'm pretty sure I exist. I find it kind of interesting, because I do self-identify as a binary trans woman, and I didn't think that I was in the minority among trans people similar to myself by calling myself "binary". Maybe I'm in a bubble myself lol
The title made me think that this was going to say nearly the opposite of what it ended up saying. Now at the end, I'd like to thank you for putting into words what I couldn't
You really make me hate Capitalism and I applaud you for that. Thanks again for the wonderful thought-provoking video, very excited for the next one
That's my job!
I don't see how this video could ever be seen as enby-phobic (or out nof your lane tbh), it's so nuanced that the people who could attack me from inside (transmed, binarists etc.) won't find any concrete weapon to hurt me, just for being nonbinary, or even the more agressive "tenderqueers", with wich I happen to share similiar needs (for example ""validation"" or visibility) I believe that this conversation *needs* to happen in order to bring us all together.
maybe, the term "tenderqueer" may put some people on edge, because its similiar to transtrender, and may be reminiscent of the way older "visible" folks who preach binarism such as buck angel, talk down on people who id as queer in general on also the basis that this group tends to be younger (in short terms, there seems to be some issues in threading discussions such as this or even about stuff like mogai in a way that does not seem too patronizing, pheraps)
I love how you question premises that so many people take for granted. As a non-binary person this really helped me see how I have more in common with other trans identities than I thought!
Hi Lily Alexandre, I found your channel few days ago and I started to listen to your video essays on the background when I work, thought it could be a good learning material (it does!). I couldn't stop rewinding back to re-listen and think for myself and I do relate a lot of the experiences cited in the essays.
To this one in particular, I've been gate-keeping myself over a decade for non-conforming to the binary trans standard and I still felt not legit when I deicided to come out and go for medical transition last year, I kept questionning myself if all these efforts are the cost of being recognized as trans/woman... But as I heard about the part that it's the womanhood/women's experience are constructed with somehow privileged white women, I suddenly feel that everything that held me back was non-sense. Everyone has one's unique experience of gender, we don't need to conform to any archetype of gender, it is a huge relief and a sense of freedom that I feel.
Thank you for the essay, I find it very intresting, intuitive and inspiring.
always appreciating you and the way you put your thoughts online!
I appreciate you Milo! 💜💜
This video and many of the comments underneath are so refreshingly thoughtful, I'm glad I found another little corner of the internet that's filled with people who engage with these conversations so deeply.
I’m so grateful for it too!!
As a nonbinary viewer, I appreciate you raising this conversation. I am often conflicted on my views about gender, its roles, its utility, how we should talk about it, what people get to call themselves/others, etc. and we desperately need more nuance in a way that social media just doesn't encourage. Big fan of your work.
interesting how the conversation changed before and after people saw this video
Super grateful people kept an open mind for this one, the pre-watch comments had me worried lol