John Wick is mindless action entertainment, in the vein of Arnold's 80s movies. Arnold, by contrast, didn't generally do sequels; this was a smart marketing idea as it gave Arnold room to try different stories and not be stuck with just idea, as it's tough to keep coming back with new and interesting material. Yeah, Conan and The Terminator movies spawned sequels, but Arnold mostly avoided this trap. Keanu should do the same thing, as the John Wick franchise is starting to become a little stale. Maybe he's been looking for a successful franchise idea since Speed, Bill & Ted, and Constantine. I'd include Matrix in that list but the first one was by far the best so I don't consider it to be a successful franchise.
Worth noting that, when Arnold returned as the Terminator, he never came back as _the same_ Terminator. Merely another iteration of the same or comparably similar model, only to virtually always (I'm not watching the new crap to confirm if this is still true) be destroyed at the end of each movie.
Agreed on Wick becoming stale. Personally, I think the quality of the movies decreased with each new installment, with the 4th being pretty meh. I'd much rather they just let sleeping dogs lie. They're doing some kind of TV show I think, and also some kind of female spinoff version, but I think they should just call it a success and let it go. Better to be lacked, than tolerated.
Just FYI, not really wanting more Wick movies because I think the ending is sound and would hate to ruin it -- like trying to undo Avengers: Endgame in my opinion. I was merely responding to Literature Devil's "would I like more analytical John Wick Videos from him." and the answer to that is a big yes.
I agree that the standalone is the best way to go. But I think you missed a potential aspect of the "mentorship" idea. Rather than Wick training someone to be an assassin, he could help convince a younger person who is starting to get involved in the criminal underworld to not get involved in the first place, imparting on them what he's learned and warning them of the life they're getting into, and how there's no escape from it.
John Wick 5: Years later, Winston finds an older John has started a combination orphanage and puppy rescue center. (Twist: turns out it's a training center that the High Table attempts to destroy.)
I dunno, if well writen, a movie with Wick having faked his death and living off the Assassin Grid could work. Essentially, one of those "badass in a small down beats up local gang" type of thing. Like Jason Statham keeps doing.
You missed an option: a parallel-quel. 1. Pick the John Wick movie with the biggest plot holes 2. Find an appropriate secondary character and set them as the main character: audience favorite, well positioned, not too busy during the story; my vote would be Winston 3. Create a story that runs parallel to the movie, landing the main character in strategic positions to fill the plot holes, making the original movie "possible". 4. Create points of overlap that can make use of the original movie, this makes those touchpoints cheap (already filmed), and keeps parity with the original story. Useful member-berries. 5. Leave the main character with some compelling reason to keep quiet about the events. This excuses any lack of explanation in the original film. It also opens avenues for future parallel-quels How cool would it be to have a whole host of movies that all cover the same week of John's life. All weaving together, cooperating with each other to form a complete self contained world. it avoids unraveling or undermining the hero's journey, it's a fresh...ish idea (done before, but not often), allows for an making use of existing worldbuilding without either starting from scratch on a new character nor pulling the "just kidding, totally not dead" that is approaching bad trope territory. Disclaimer: I got the idea from Orson Scott Card's sequel to 'Enders Game', Ender's Shadow.
I think the proper term is midquel (new story in the same timeframe as the previous one). Not to be confused with interquel (story set between two stories).
John Wick's Legacy Have the movie only use John in flashbacks or "mental" mentorship as the remaining friends (I still haven't seen these movies so I don't know who that would be) keep the high table from forming again, breaking the assassin's connected underworld as it currently exists. Ultimately this might weaken assassins as a whole by creating a bunch of smaller leagues of assassins, if you will, but no high table to do to other assassins what was done to John Wick, or even allowing them to leave the life with the peace Wick was denied in life.
This. The idea of the legacy Wick left behind after his death could make for an interesting story. I mean...I became well known as a fic writer with a series based around the legacy of a hero that died to protect others, and his descendant taking up his moniker to help others again. Having a story around trying to maintain what Wick sought to create (including the end of the High Table) could make for an intriguing tale. Especially if there are those who have heard of the Baba Yaga and are trying to become the NEXT one.
I was thinking something along the lines of JW being brought back as a mentor/trainer to a new hero who was like any other normal person until he unwittingly/unwilling ends up in the criminal underworld following his relationship with Akira, a female assassin and crime syndicate princess, of whom he's trying to find and get answers from after their "night-of-passion" leads to him finding the child they created on his front doorstep one morning X-months later, and having to put up with a bunch of criminals trying to kill him and get the kid. This opens the door for both the mentor route and the redemption arc as JW helps our new hero on his quest to find and save Akira from the rival family of whom is sending assassins after them and their kids. To be honest, I do not believe JW is dead in his world as a good death can only come from a good life as stated in the movie. And in this movie, he'd wouldn't be the main character but he would play an active role as the new hero's mentor that because of their similarities willingly takes him under his wing and helps him. The entire movie would be setting up the new hero and his eventual meeting with JW and becoming his student. This would lead into a second movie following the completion of the training and now follows them in their shared quest to find and save Akira and essentially reunite the broke up family, and JW's redemption thus completing his Hero's journey and the new hero's journey as well.
John Wick's twin brother. John Wick cult develops, where assassins disguise themselves as John to intimidate. John Wick's ghost appears and helps people. Government creates John Wick clone.
John Wick 5 takes the MCU route of storytelling: He fights himself from another dimension, thereby removing any sense of states because the hopelessness of his previous mission in John Wick 4 is made all the more poignant except the audience will be feeling it, too. Probably. :P
My quick ideas. Prequel movie showing how John either started or how he got out the first time. A sequel movie putting John in more of a mentor role. Think Creed. A sequel movie but on a smaller scale. Think helping friends rather than going against The High Table. I'll be honest, I'd be happy if we just got more like John Wick 1. Self contained movies of John just kicking arse.
No you got it all wrong LD, He's going to find himself in hell, and so will start another 5 movies of him working his way up through the ranks to eventually kill the devil himself!! As always great Vid.
I've actually speculated this could be where the story goes, since every villain before they die tells John "Be seeing you" as if they will meet up again later.
Nah, John Wick should fight his way out of Hell. He gets his car, dog and wife back fighting all the enemies he sent to Hell. The demon Bana Yaga could be an antagonistic or protagonist in his journey.
If a 5th movie had to be made. I would do a twist. John Wick is dead. But not the Idea he represents. Old assassins wanting out, wanting peace, wanting freedoms. So I would do a story of someone emulated John Wick, a master assassin who is old, and wanting to retire, but like with Kane, the Table says no. But here's the twist, unlike Wick, have this one actually have friends, skilled friends, who also want to retire but can't. And have a Team of people working to fight against the High Table. The story of "John Wick" the character is over, indeed. But not the ideals that spawned him, something the Marque had been trying to kill and failed. It only makes sense, for those ideals, and concepts, to take root and come into play in the next movie to end the franchise as a whole, with the collapse of the high table. Something I had hoped John Wick would have done in JW4. I had wanted him to kill EVERYONE. From the elder, to each of the high table members, to each organization and their head. I wanted JW4 to be John Dismantling everything that was "Above the Table". Sadly, we never got that, and that's why I view John Wick 4 as the worse movie from the entire franchise, followed by the third, then the second with the first as the best still. But the ending we got, while is a good ending for John himself, isn't actually a good ending for the story as a whole. Wiston gets a new hotel, but that just sets him up as being in the exact same position as he was in movie 1, for him, nothing ultimately changed except who his 'Second' is. The Baron King of the Homeless never gets resolved at all. Kane get's his freedom, but will be killed by an assassin anyways, so his story ends. Or he must survive the conflict, but his daughter killed instead. Either way, his story hasn't ended. And as seen with Kane, there are people who are meant to have been "Retired", who the High Table FORCE back into service through threats to their love ones or their life, as seen with the 'Tracker'. Either way, the actions of the High Table has shown they are without honor, they are without a code, and they will break their own rules if needed, and force people to do their bidding. And I believe John Wick is a story to dismantle those in power, who try and stop those trying to live in peace from being able to do so. So I want to see a story about a group of old retired assassins, the 'old guard' as it were, forced to come back and forced to dismantle the high table and organization. Either completely, or rebuild it better based on honor and rules, and have it enforced, or else.
I see nothing good coming due to the path new movies are taking this days. I will stick to this little hope I have, but it feels like holding a candle in the middle of the storm. Good job, LD. I miss watching you with Smudboy ❤
If you wanted to francise it they introduce dozens of assassins that probably have their own stories. Maybe not a movie but Id watch a series of short stories from the many assassins he murks.
Obviously JW5 will be a romantic comedy prequel about a serious assassin and a typical woman finding love (ending with her going to a medical check up, no worries in the world for their budding marriage).
My idea for the next film is that it would be called "the wicked" and it would be about various assassins from the high table killing each other for a big bounty in a non linear structure like reservoir dogs
More content that breaks down and analyzes stories is always welcome. Using "John Wick" as the example is just a nice bonus. As for "John Wick 5," should they make one? No. Will they make one? Yes. I agree with this premise, that it's ultimately all about Wick overcoming his great flaw, perhaps even finding a real redemption. Perhaps something along the lines of "Man on Fire," where former assassin John Creasy is taught "it's okay to live again" through his surrogate father-daughter relationship with Pita. I could see that work with an aged John Wick who's hiding out somewhere, just waiting to die, until this chance at redemption comes his way. Because Hollywood is so unoriginal, they would of course, go with the "cutesy" father-daughter dynamic, but if they had an ounce of spine, they would opt for a father-son relationship, where he could mentor a young boy to be what he never had the chance to be: a good man. Culminating in that classic "The Shootist" moment, where the boy throws away the gun, the symbol of a life of violence and death, to John Wick's approving nod. That would be a good way to end it... which is how I know they will pick some lesser choice. Still, we can dream.
Very interesting idea and concept as usual i had a similar thought as you described the issues. My direction though did involve using 4's plothock. As tbe role of the completed hero often travels into mentor or watcher i had an angle on that. Cane would sense the attack/not be injured enough for a death blow...wick hears about it and after everything they both went tgrough in 4 wants to make sure his freind can survive. As he would have to convince our female assuan to not kill cane or kill her he tries to stop her diplomatocally wanting not to step back into that path and he has to find new ways of dealing with the issues while fighting his rage. This would force a new dynamic of john being a protector and diplomat of sorts...sometgingvhis skills are not well suited for but his reputation is a help or a hinderence. Dont know if it would be better for john to still live or sacrifice himself so 2 others paths are not dominated as assian targets or hunters. John wick 5 definatly has a huge balacing act to achieve, but it is nit impossiable...although i would not mind if they say it is too much we cannot work a good enough story so not happening
Very good idea for a plot. I bet the movie won't make use of it since the writers will likely go for one of the other less interesting ones you mentioned at the start.
I like your take, but I think you could do a mentor role if you flip the script. This is a world of assassins, and John Wick is the greatest assassin. What about the targets? Someone falls afoul of criminal underworld, and gets a contract on his family. They are tough, though - guy's ex-military and private security, gal's a cop - so the manage to survive and even kill an assassin. The couple take coins off the dead guy, and manage to get their way into the Continental. (if random cabbies know about this, so can they) This leads to an encounter with Winston, and referral to ex-assassins for training. This is where you can bring John Wick in. He's not mentoring an assassin, but a bodyguard. While the couple and a few of Johns friends hold of the assassins, John Wick goes to see the mob boss who placed the hit. He states that John Wick can stay buried if he buries the contract, and manages to stop the threat without killing a single person, just using his reputation. You could even give it a bit of Pale Rider and make you wonder if he's a ghost (without any obvious supernatural stuff)
The closest that we got to an addition to the world of John Wick was that short series about Winston's time at the Continental during the 1970s. That was interesting.
If they did that, I would pay good money for a John Wick 6 in which Akira, after having received all of John Wick's sage advice about peace over rage, foolishly, completely rejecting it and diving headlong into the criminal underworld for revenge, or perhaps the thrill of the hunt, only for the narrative to punish her brutally. She would lose everything John Wick lost, with the key caveat that for her, it was completely available, and she knows it. She would come to realize that what she really wanted, she had all along, and that she didn't realize it until too late. The movie would end on an uncertain note; will she admit her failings, try to create an escape for herself and rebuild her shattered life a new at great personal cost, as Wick did, or accept that she is truly lost and irredeemable, live the life of a soulless killer without hope, and try to make the best of it?
Honestly not a bad pitch! Much better than the prequel idea. It's so much more fun to imagine the first impossible task than to see it so I hope they don't go that route. The only other pitch for John Wick 5 I liked, albeit for selfish fanservice-y reasons, is that John Wick has to pull a Doomguy and go through Hell itself, facing the various people he's killed, to reunite with Helen in Heaven. Completely ridiculous and insane, but it'd be fun and still serves John Wick's arc of "needing to atone"
I really enjoy the idea but I think that another way to take John wick overcoming his rage would be to take another character with similar danger and skill to what John would’ve been in his prime and show him getting through to him/her over the course of the film to show them that this isn’t the way to be and at the end they wouldn’t kill the main villain due to johns words and advice which would not only give a conclusive story but also shows John overcoming his rage through the main character instead of having to needlessly kill more people for what could be called a hypocritical reason of showing that “although I killed 1000 guys I won’t kill the villain” trope
Nah, they'll just introduce time travel or multi-verses, and it'll be 'jane wick' this time. A strong, independent, quadriplegic, transgender, multi-ethnic(but mostly looks black) 300lb 'wahman' with a souped up hoveround that has mini-guns and she 'wuvs the science'. I'm not cynical at all.
I think John wick faked his death at the end, they never show us his body or even him being buried. Granted they could have just wanted to skip that in the movie. But I don't think he's dead.
I usually agree with you completely, but it's a little delusional, probably biased because you like the franchise, to think that it wasn't an escalation fest with from the beginning, there was no high table in the first, but in the second and subsequent they always needed something bigger, some mafia powerful guy
Hear me out. Tomb Raider Chronicles (2000) was a weak game made by the B Team of inexperienced developers after the core (heh) team snuck a death scene into Tomb Raider Revelations to get out of the extreme development hell cycle put upon them. As a twenty year old fanboy at the time, I only assumed Lara's death was a fake-out, because why wouldn't it be? They'd bring her back somehow. And she does return in Angel of Darkness, with more story for her apparent presumption of death than needed. Anyway, lousy game. Nobody thinks that was a high point in the franchise. *But* the concept could work as a bridge. *If* you *must* make another movie, a group of friends gathering to tell a series of anthology stories about the adventures of the hero could open opportunities for other plots, new _old_ characters, and create demand to see the hero return to resolve new _old_ conflicts. No matter how much effort goes into delivering on themes, action and worldbuilding, it won't be received as well a main entry, but like Star Trek 3 The Search for Spock, some are written, so the series can progress. It might also be more palatable than calling it another (groan) _prequel._ Or _soft reboot._ We're being trained to despise these words. That's what I'd do if they *made me* make John Wick 5. Alternatively, they could leave it alone and let good things end well. Take the lessons, and make the next big thing.
They took JW4 in a wrong direction to begin with. The gun kata is cool & all but it's getting stale, on the other hand the lore of the assassin world was fascinating, so they should have built on that instead of pushing the gun kata more than ever. Every fight scene in JW4 with the exception of the Scott Adkins one should be edited down to half its length and it would serve the movie tremendously. The world they've built is more interesting than repetitions of the same action scenes by now.
I hate unnecessary sequels. Just tell your story then let it die with some honor. I love when creators have the backbone to resist cashgrabs and stick with the satisfying ending they worked so hard on. Stop resurrecting stories that should have stayed dead.
okay, not a bad story idea. but here me out - john wick-enstein. an evil tinkerer/inventor brings Wick back to life as this half robot super killing machine to deal with some great evil threat that's thrashing the high table.
Here's an interesting What If... ...what if, for the majority of this hypothetical movie, John wore a mask and a voice-modulator to hide his identity so the underworld wouldn't know he was still alive.
John Wick is my favorite movie franchise. I get everything I ever wanted in movies Martial arts, CQC, modern guns, samurai, Ninjas, westerns, mafia bosses It is all there and I can’t get enough of it
Actually, that’s a ridiculously good idea! Not only would it be bad as to watch John fight through the depths of hell, but within hell, the story can be entirely self contained, as hell would not interfere with the physical world, where the story was concluded. As for the goal, John would find that while his wife went to Heaven for eternal joy with God, he was sent down to a miserable eternity in hell. So, the plot simply revolves around John fighting his way to Heaven. Where it will end happily with John and his wife living joyously in eternal life with God. Sure, it defies my catholic doctrine entirely, but this film would be badass, and a decent final conclusion to John’s story once and for all.
I really like this take on a potential 5th movie. I was satisfied with the end of John Wick's story, it is very symbolic and follows the Cambellian mono-myth very well. I imagined Wick dying not from his wounds sustained in the final duel, but from his body having finally exhausted itself after he freed himself from the table. I would definitely love to see more content on John Wick from this channel, keep up the good work LD!
Counterpoint, john wick in hell/purgatory. John is still very much dead, but now has to fight through his own legacy of rage and blood in order to earn the chance to spend an afterlife with Helen. We see the return of virtually every major character John has killed throughout the series and have him confront his legacy head on. In order to conquer this metaphysical challenge, he must both flight harder than ever has before and fight to change and better his own soul. They probably shouldn’t be making any kind of John Wick five though.
John Wick 5: "We sent you back in time to enjoy a peaceful life with your lovely wife. Oops, pushed your dad into a car. Wick To The Future anyone?" - OKAY STOP. DONT GIVE HOLLYWOOD ANY IDEAS ALRIGHT! ITS NOT FUNNY ANYMORE.
"How do you continue a story that's over" Hmm? Highlander, Alien/Aliens, Jaws, The Thing, Jurassic Park, Star Wars (Original Trilogy) Simple answer:- DON'T!!!! Complex Answer:- Dark Horse Comics, Lucasarts etc. Talented creatives, long enough leads for creativity but short enough for restraint to not go too astray. Enough faithfulness to the source material & cleverly placed ideas that makes sense.
In John Wick 1… the Russian Oligarch says “The bodies he buried that day… built the basis for what we have today.” I wouldn’t mind if 5 was a prequel that told that story.
My second Idea John Wick dies and is reincarnated in the body of a dog. He loves his new family but some very bad people show up who want to do bad things. John must defend his new family in the body of a dog of course and if he is a good enough boy he might just win his way to heaven and reunite with his wife.
I have a much stupider idea. Miscellaneous assassins try to do the John Wick thing of leaving the assassin life, each one becoming their own "John Wick". Oh, and many waves of enemies just die for no reason and the text "Babayaga" appears on screen when that happens, implying Wick is alive and screwing with the high table.
could you please do a breakdown on the controversy abou Tara and Israel-Hamas war please? (I know by myself Tara isn't racist, but still... it would be cool if you could do it)
Forget to mention, I want to listen to your analysis, criteria and opinion because like many I struggle to write female protagonists, I felt it when I saw your turning red video. Thus I’d like to listen to what you have to say about Damsel so I can learn from the words of Experience.
In regards to a mentorship arc, Jon could end up (perhaps in working with akira) starting a contra force that protects the innocent from the high table, which would inevitably draw him into conflict with old friends and rivals in an attempt to find redemption by bringing peace to all while dealing with the irony of creating another unkillable organization.
I'm not a fan of mindless violence merely for entertainment sake...and, really for any reason. And so I must say that the graphic violence of the Wick franchise is most certainly not mindless. It in integral to the story. The story is not a game and failure has a consequence of certain permanence. The violence demonstrates a certain design to the Wick universe. It is corriographed inside of the story and not merely as a function of cinemagraphic production. This leads one to presume that those who attain a certain level within the Wickverse achieve a certain precience, seeing within the battlespace patterns of behavior within which the master characters move. When presented well on the screen, it becomes a work of art. So, yes, please, continue your analysis and commentary.
You can immortalize a character that dies by showing the impact their death has had on the world. Their story, which was thought to have ended when they died, continues in the way their mission carries on in the ways of the ones they left behind. Think how Robb Stark and Jon Snow carry on the legacy of Eddard Stark in GoT
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John Wick is mindless action entertainment, in the vein of Arnold's 80s movies. Arnold, by contrast, didn't generally do sequels; this was a smart marketing idea as it gave Arnold room to try different stories and not be stuck with just idea, as it's tough to keep coming back with new and interesting material. Yeah, Conan and The Terminator movies spawned sequels, but Arnold mostly avoided this trap. Keanu should do the same thing, as the John Wick franchise is starting to become a little stale. Maybe he's been looking for a successful franchise idea since Speed, Bill & Ted, and Constantine. I'd include Matrix in that list but the first one was by far the best so I don't consider it to be a successful franchise.
Worth noting that, when Arnold returned as the Terminator, he never came back as _the same_ Terminator. Merely another iteration of the same or comparably similar model, only to virtually always (I'm not watching the new crap to confirm if this is still true) be destroyed at the end of each movie.
Agreed on Wick becoming stale. Personally, I think the quality of the movies decreased with each new installment, with the 4th being pretty meh. I'd much rather they just let sleeping dogs lie. They're doing some kind of TV show I think, and also some kind of female spinoff version, but I think they should just call it a success and let it go. Better to be lacked, than tolerated.
First jhon wick wasnt mindless action. It was well written. The rest tho for sure
Just FYI, not really wanting more Wick movies because I think the ending is sound and would hate to ruin it -- like trying to undo Avengers: Endgame in my opinion.
I was merely responding to Literature Devil's "would I like more analytical John Wick Videos from him." and the answer to that is a big yes.
Luv all the wick movies, big fan there can't be a 5th it will diminish it.
I agree that the standalone is the best way to go. But I think you missed a potential aspect of the "mentorship" idea. Rather than Wick training someone to be an assassin, he could help convince a younger person who is starting to get involved in the criminal underworld to not get involved in the first place, imparting on them what he's learned and warning them of the life they're getting into, and how there's no escape from it.
John Wick 5: Years later, Winston finds an older John has started a combination orphanage and puppy rescue center. (Twist: turns out it's a training center that the High Table attempts to destroy.)
I could see him working at a place he likes and running into High Table nonsense. They ARE everywhere lol.
That reminds me of the Yakuza games, wher Kiryu runs an orphanage.
The fifth film could be a slice of life where a retired John Wick supervises a high school paintball club.
I dunno, if well writen, a movie with Wick having faked his death and living off the Assassin Grid could work. Essentially, one of those "badass in a small down beats up local gang" type of thing. Like Jason Statham keeps doing.
You missed an option: a parallel-quel.
1. Pick the John Wick movie with the biggest plot holes
2. Find an appropriate secondary character and set them as the main character: audience favorite, well positioned, not too busy during the story; my vote would be Winston
3. Create a story that runs parallel to the movie, landing the main character in strategic positions to fill the plot holes, making the original movie "possible".
4. Create points of overlap that can make use of the original movie, this makes those touchpoints cheap (already filmed), and keeps parity with the original story. Useful member-berries.
5. Leave the main character with some compelling reason to keep quiet about the events. This excuses any lack of explanation in the original film. It also opens avenues for future parallel-quels
How cool would it be to have a whole host of movies that all cover the same week of John's life. All weaving together, cooperating with each other to form a complete self contained world.
it avoids unraveling or undermining the hero's journey, it's a fresh...ish idea (done before, but not often), allows for an making use of existing worldbuilding without either starting from scratch on a new character nor pulling the "just kidding, totally not dead" that is approaching bad trope territory.
Disclaimer: I got the idea from Orson Scott Card's sequel to 'Enders Game', Ender's Shadow.
I think this is the best possible solution. Please contact the people responsible for this and convice them.
So basically you want Back to the Future 2
@@bentonmarcum8924 you say that like it's a bad thing!
@@jlsuperman I say that like it's a observation
I think the proper term is midquel (new story in the same timeframe as the previous one). Not to be confused with interquel (story set between two stories).
John Wick's Legacy
Have the movie only use John in flashbacks or "mental" mentorship as the remaining friends (I still haven't seen these movies so I don't know who that would be) keep the high table from forming again, breaking the assassin's connected underworld as it currently exists. Ultimately this might weaken assassins as a whole by creating a bunch of smaller leagues of assassins, if you will, but no high table to do to other assassins what was done to John Wick, or even allowing them to leave the life with the peace Wick was denied in life.
This. The idea of the legacy Wick left behind after his death could make for an interesting story. I mean...I became well known as a fic writer with a series based around the legacy of a hero that died to protect others, and his descendant taking up his moniker to help others again. Having a story around trying to maintain what Wick sought to create (including the end of the High Table) could make for an intriguing tale. Especially if there are those who have heard of the Baba Yaga and are trying to become the NEXT one.
@@gamemasteranthony2756 Like a Tron: Legacy for killers?
@@ShadowWingTronix (shudders) Let’s not compare John Wick to THAT…
@@gamemasteranthony2756 You didn't like...wait, I meant Tron: Uprising, my mistake. But I kind of liked Legacy.
@@ShadowWingTronix Legacy was trying to hard to bank on nostalgia. Uprising is a better comparison.
I was thinking something along the lines of JW being brought back as a mentor/trainer to a new hero who was like any other normal person until he unwittingly/unwilling ends up in the criminal underworld following his relationship with Akira, a female assassin and crime syndicate princess, of whom he's trying to find and get answers from after their "night-of-passion" leads to him finding the child they created on his front doorstep one morning X-months later, and having to put up with a bunch of criminals trying to kill him and get the kid. This opens the door for both the mentor route and the redemption arc as JW helps our new hero on his quest to find and save Akira from the rival family of whom is sending assassins after them and their kids. To be honest, I do not believe JW is dead in his world as a good death can only come from a good life as stated in the movie. And in this movie, he'd wouldn't be the main character but he would play an active role as the new hero's mentor that because of their similarities willingly takes him under his wing and helps him. The entire movie would be setting up the new hero and his eventual meeting with JW and becoming his student. This would lead into a second movie following the completion of the training and now follows them in their shared quest to find and save Akira and essentially reunite the broke up family, and JW's redemption thus completing his Hero's journey and the new hero's journey as well.
John Wick's twin brother.
John Wick cult develops, where assassins disguise themselves as John to intimidate.
John Wick's ghost appears and helps people.
Government creates John Wick clone.
Thank you for another great video! Yes please, I for one would love to see an analysis of the John Wick movies. 😁
Sure thing!
John Wick 5 takes the MCU route of storytelling: He fights himself from another dimension, thereby removing any sense of states because the hopelessness of his previous mission in John Wick 4 is made all the more poignant except the audience will be feeling it, too. Probably. :P
My quick ideas.
Prequel movie showing how John either started or how he got out the first time.
A sequel movie putting John in more of a mentor role. Think Creed.
A sequel movie but on a smaller scale. Think helping friends rather than going against The High Table.
I'll be honest, I'd be happy if we just got more like John Wick 1. Self contained movies of John just kicking arse.
No you got it all wrong LD, He's going to find himself in hell, and so will start another 5 movies of him working his way up through the ranks to eventually kill the devil himself!! As always great Vid.
I've actually speculated this could be where the story goes, since every villain before they die tells John "Be seeing you" as if they will meet up again later.
I would actually want to watch that
i wasn't expecting a sequel at all.
Nah, John Wick should fight his way out of Hell.
He gets his car, dog and wife back fighting all the enemies he sent to Hell.
The demon Bana Yaga could be an antagonistic or protagonist in his journey.
John Wick and Doom Guy crossover.
If a 5th movie had to be made. I would do a twist. John Wick is dead. But not the Idea he represents. Old assassins wanting out, wanting peace, wanting freedoms. So I would do a story of someone emulated John Wick, a master assassin who is old, and wanting to retire, but like with Kane, the Table says no. But here's the twist, unlike Wick, have this one actually have friends, skilled friends, who also want to retire but can't. And have a Team of people working to fight against the High Table.
The story of "John Wick" the character is over, indeed. But not the ideals that spawned him, something the Marque had been trying to kill and failed. It only makes sense, for those ideals, and concepts, to take root and come into play in the next movie to end the franchise as a whole, with the collapse of the high table. Something I had hoped John Wick would have done in JW4.
I had wanted him to kill EVERYONE. From the elder, to each of the high table members, to each organization and their head. I wanted JW4 to be John Dismantling everything that was "Above the Table". Sadly, we never got that, and that's why I view John Wick 4 as the worse movie from the entire franchise, followed by the third, then the second with the first as the best still.
But the ending we got, while is a good ending for John himself, isn't actually a good ending for the story as a whole. Wiston gets a new hotel, but that just sets him up as being in the exact same position as he was in movie 1, for him, nothing ultimately changed except who his 'Second' is. The Baron King of the Homeless never gets resolved at all. Kane get's his freedom, but will be killed by an assassin anyways, so his story ends. Or he must survive the conflict, but his daughter killed instead. Either way, his story hasn't ended. And as seen with Kane, there are people who are meant to have been "Retired", who the High Table FORCE back into service through threats to their love ones or their life, as seen with the 'Tracker'. Either way, the actions of the High Table has shown they are without honor, they are without a code, and they will break their own rules if needed, and force people to do their bidding.
And I believe John Wick is a story to dismantle those in power, who try and stop those trying to live in peace from being able to do so. So I want to see a story about a group of old retired assassins, the 'old guard' as it were, forced to come back and forced to dismantle the high table and organization. Either completely, or rebuild it better based on honor and rules, and have it enforced, or else.
I want John Wick to live but become this scary shadowy presence in someone else's story.
John Wick was mindless after the first one, he is fully injured and still able to fight of the entire world in the second and 3rd.
Inspired. Thank you.
I see nothing good coming due to the path new movies are taking this days. I will stick to this little hope I have, but it feels like holding a candle in the middle of the storm.
Good job, LD. I miss watching you with Smudboy ❤
If you wanted to francise it they introduce dozens of assassins that probably have their own stories. Maybe not a movie but Id watch a series of short stories from the many assassins he murks.
Obviously JW5 will be a romantic comedy prequel about a serious assassin and a typical woman finding love (ending with her going to a medical check up, no worries in the world for their budding marriage).
My idea for the next film is that it would be called "the wicked" and it would be about various assassins from the high table killing each other for a big bounty in a non linear structure like reservoir dogs
More content that breaks down and analyzes stories is always welcome. Using "John Wick" as the example is just a nice bonus.
As for "John Wick 5," should they make one? No. Will they make one? Yes.
I agree with this premise, that it's ultimately all about Wick overcoming his great flaw, perhaps even finding a real redemption.
Perhaps something along the lines of "Man on Fire," where former assassin John Creasy is taught "it's okay to live again" through his surrogate father-daughter relationship with Pita. I could see that work with an aged John Wick who's hiding out somewhere, just waiting to die, until this chance at redemption comes his way.
Because Hollywood is so unoriginal, they would of course, go with the "cutesy" father-daughter dynamic, but if they had an ounce of spine, they would opt for a father-son relationship, where he could mentor a young boy to be what he never had the chance to be: a good man. Culminating in that classic "The Shootist" moment, where the boy throws away the gun, the symbol of a life of violence and death, to John Wick's approving nod.
That would be a good way to end it... which is how I know they will pick some lesser choice.
Still, we can dream.
Very interesting idea and concept as usual i had a similar thought as you described the issues.
My direction though did involve using 4's plothock.
As tbe role of the completed hero often travels into mentor or watcher i had an angle on that.
Cane would sense the attack/not be injured enough for a death blow...wick hears about it and after everything they both went tgrough in 4 wants to make sure his freind can survive.
As he would have to convince our female assuan to not kill cane or kill her he tries to stop her diplomatocally wanting not to step back into that path and he has to find new ways of dealing with the issues while fighting his rage.
This would force a new dynamic of john being a protector and diplomat of sorts...sometgingvhis skills are not well suited for but his reputation is a help or a hinderence.
Dont know if it would be better for john to still live or sacrifice himself so 2 others paths are not dominated as assian targets or hunters.
John wick 5 definatly has a huge balacing act to achieve, but it is nit impossiable...although i would not mind if they say it is too much we cannot work a good enough story so not happening
please make this a series
Very good idea for a plot. I bet the movie won't make use of it since the writers will likely go for one of the other less interesting ones you mentioned at the start.
Damnit! I wish you had a spoiler notice because I just assumed he survived the fourth movie.
I don't see how that's LD's problem.
LOL
Well, since Part 5 is announced he probably did.
I like your take, but I think you could do a mentor role if you flip the script. This is a world of assassins, and John Wick is the greatest assassin. What about the targets? Someone falls afoul of criminal underworld, and gets a contract on his family. They are tough, though - guy's ex-military and private security, gal's a cop - so the manage to survive and even kill an assassin. The couple take coins off the dead guy, and manage to get their way into the Continental. (if random cabbies know about this, so can they) This leads to an encounter with Winston, and referral to ex-assassins for training.
This is where you can bring John Wick in. He's not mentoring an assassin, but a bodyguard. While the couple and a few of Johns friends hold of the assassins, John Wick goes to see the mob boss who placed the hit. He states that John Wick can stay buried if he buries the contract, and manages to stop the threat without killing a single person, just using his reputation. You could even give it a bit of Pale Rider and make you wonder if he's a ghost (without any obvious supernatural stuff)
"I'd buy _that_ for a dollar!"
Id be down for more John Wick videos.
John Wick 5: Mall Cop
You should do a video on Godzilla minus 1
Just watched it yesterday, in fact. Fantastic movie!
The closest that we got to an addition to the world of John Wick was that short series about Winston's time at the Continental during the 1970s. That was interesting.
if john wick is alive i wont even bother looking up for the movie.that was a good ending
Yeah, the story is over. Having a fifth movie at this point would really feel like exploitation.
Awww 🥰 thanks you’re such a amazing fans of mine. Which of my movies is your favorite ❤️
6:16. Ummmm isn't that what Disney did.?
Please continue...?
If they did that, I would pay good money for a John Wick 6 in which Akira, after having received all of John Wick's sage advice about peace over rage, foolishly, completely rejecting it and diving headlong into the criminal underworld for revenge, or perhaps the thrill of the hunt, only for the narrative to punish her brutally. She would lose everything John Wick lost, with the key caveat that for her, it was completely available, and she knows it. She would come to realize that what she really wanted, she had all along, and that she didn't realize it until too late. The movie would end on an uncertain note; will she admit her failings, try to create an escape for herself and rebuild her shattered life a new at great personal cost, as Wick did, or accept that she is truly lost and irredeemable, live the life of a soulless killer without hope, and try to make the best of it?
i definitely wouldn't mind you going through the john wick franchise.
Honestly not a bad pitch! Much better than the prequel idea. It's so much more fun to imagine the first impossible task than to see it so I hope they don't go that route. The only other pitch for John Wick 5 I liked, albeit for selfish fanservice-y reasons, is that John Wick has to pull a Doomguy and go through Hell itself, facing the various people he's killed, to reunite with Helen in Heaven. Completely ridiculous and insane, but it'd be fun and still serves John Wick's arc of "needing to atone"
Like your idea for a 5th one, but I think 4 is enough.
Make it where wick had either a daughter or son, and they take up the mantle
AWE HELL YEAH!
DEEP DIVE! 🎉
I don't have high hopes of anything from Hollywood in the last few years.
I really enjoy the idea but I think that another way to take John wick overcoming his rage would be to take another character with similar danger and skill to what John would’ve been in his prime and show him getting through to him/her over the course of the film to show them that this isn’t the way to be and at the end they wouldn’t kill the main villain due to johns words and advice which would not only give a conclusive story but also shows John overcoming his rage through the main character instead of having to needlessly kill more people for what could be called a hypocritical reason of showing that “although I killed 1000 guys I won’t kill the villain” trope
John Wick: Enter the Continentalverse?
The fifth movie will see John Wick being resurrected as an immortal undead. It will be called John Wicked 😂😂😂
Nah, they'll just introduce time travel or multi-verses, and it'll be 'jane wick' this time.
A strong, independent, quadriplegic, transgender, multi-ethnic(but mostly looks black) 300lb 'wahman' with a souped up hoveround that has mini-guns and she 'wuvs the science'.
I'm not cynical at all.
"In a desperate need to keep afloat, Disney has purchased John Wick! Now introducing the Wick Multiverse of Madness!"
@@LiteratureDevil That idea will keep them afloat, just like the titanic.
john wick 5, saving his wife from hell
Wasn't the next film supposed to be "The Ballerina"?
Sure.
I think John wick faked his death at the end, they never show us his body or even him being buried. Granted they could have just wanted to skip that in the movie. But I don't think he's dead.
Hey Chad Stahelski take note please
I know someone who looks just like John Wick.
Haa…just let stories have endings
Zombie Wick.
I usually agree with you completely, but it's a little delusional, probably biased because you like the franchise, to think that it wasn't an escalation fest with from the beginning, there was no high table in the first, but in the second and subsequent they always needed something bigger, some mafia powerful guy
There's going to be a john wick 5?🤨
Hear me out. Tomb Raider Chronicles (2000) was a weak game made by the B Team of inexperienced developers after the core (heh) team snuck a death scene into Tomb Raider Revelations to get out of the extreme development hell cycle put upon them. As a twenty year old fanboy at the time, I only assumed Lara's death was a fake-out, because why wouldn't it be? They'd bring her back somehow. And she does return in Angel of Darkness, with more story for her apparent presumption of death than needed.
Anyway, lousy game. Nobody thinks that was a high point in the franchise. *But* the concept could work as a bridge. *If* you *must* make another movie, a group of friends gathering to tell a series of anthology stories about the adventures of the hero could open opportunities for other plots, new _old_ characters, and create demand to see the hero return to resolve new _old_ conflicts.
No matter how much effort goes into delivering on themes, action and worldbuilding, it won't be received as well a main entry, but like Star Trek 3 The Search for Spock, some are written, so the series can progress.
It might also be more palatable than calling it another (groan) _prequel._ Or _soft reboot._ We're being trained to despise these words.
That's what I'd do if they *made me* make John Wick 5. Alternatively, they could leave it alone and let good things end well. Take the lessons, and make the next big thing.
They took JW4 in a wrong direction to begin with. The gun kata is cool & all but it's getting stale, on the other hand the lore of the assassin world was fascinating, so they should have built on that instead of pushing the gun kata more than ever. Every fight scene in JW4 with the exception of the Scott Adkins one should be edited down to half its length and it would serve the movie tremendously. The world they've built is more interesting than repetitions of the same action scenes by now.
I hate unnecessary sequels. Just tell your story then let it die with some honor. I love when creators have the backbone to resist cashgrabs and stick with the satisfying ending they worked so hard on. Stop resurrecting stories that should have stayed dead.
That or they will make a new character that is a black lesbian female and bring John Wick back so they can show us how great they/them are.
They probably want a John woke
It’ll be a soft reboot where John Wick is inexplicably a woman.
okay, not a bad story idea. but here me out - john wick-enstein. an evil tinkerer/inventor brings Wick back to life as this half robot super killing machine to deal with some great evil threat that's thrashing the high table.
Here's an interesting What If...
...what if, for the majority of this hypothetical movie, John wore a mask and a voice-modulator to hide his identity so the underworld wouldn't know he was still alive.
John Wick is my favorite movie franchise. I get everything I ever wanted in movies
Martial arts, CQC, modern guns, samurai, Ninjas, westerns, mafia bosses
It is all there and I can’t get enough of it
The only way I'll get behind John Wick 5 is if he wakes up to a guy named Virgil offering to give him a tour.
Actually, that’s a ridiculously good idea!
Not only would it be bad as to watch John fight through the depths of hell, but within hell, the story can be entirely self contained, as hell would not interfere with the physical world, where the story was concluded.
As for the goal, John would find that while his wife went to Heaven for eternal joy with God, he was sent down to a miserable eternity in hell. So, the plot simply revolves around John fighting his way to Heaven. Where it will end happily with John and his wife living joyously in eternal life with God.
Sure, it defies my catholic doctrine entirely, but this film would be badass, and a decent final conclusion to John’s story once and for all.
I really like this take on a potential 5th movie. I was satisfied with the end of John Wick's story, it is very symbolic and follows the Cambellian mono-myth very well. I imagined Wick dying not from his wounds sustained in the final duel, but from his body having finally exhausted itself after he freed himself from the table. I would definitely love to see more content on John Wick from this channel, keep up the good work LD!
Haha davis; "ain't nobody left to kill John." After a certain number of sequels he'd probably kill more people than most plagues.
Counterpoint, john wick in hell/purgatory.
John is still very much dead, but now has to fight through his own legacy of rage and blood in order to earn the chance to spend an afterlife with Helen. We see the return of virtually every major character John has killed throughout the series and have him confront his legacy head on. In order to conquer this metaphysical challenge, he must both flight harder than ever has before and fight to change and better his own soul.
They probably shouldn’t be making any kind of John Wick five though.
That is a very interesting plot point.
The next movie should just be a prequel focusing on the "impossible task" alluded to in previous installments that earned him his reputation.
John Wick 5: "We sent you back in time to enjoy a peaceful life with your lovely wife. Oops, pushed your dad into a car. Wick To The Future anyone?" - OKAY STOP. DONT GIVE HOLLYWOOD ANY IDEAS ALRIGHT! ITS NOT FUNNY ANYMORE.
"Are you up for this new task John?"
John:...yeah...
"How do you continue a story that's over"
Hmm? Highlander, Alien/Aliens, Jaws, The Thing, Jurassic Park, Star Wars (Original Trilogy)
Simple answer:- DON'T!!!!
Complex Answer:- Dark Horse Comics, Lucasarts etc. Talented creatives, long enough leads for creativity but short enough for restraint to not go too astray. Enough faithfulness to the source material & cleverly placed ideas that makes sense.
In John Wick 1… the Russian Oligarch says “The bodies he buried that day… built the basis for what we have today.”
I wouldn’t mind if 5 was a prequel that told that story.
My second Idea John Wick dies and is reincarnated in the body of a dog. He loves his new family but some very bad people show up who want to do bad things. John must defend his new family in the body of a dog of course and if he is a good enough boy he might just win his way to heaven and reunite with his wife.
1:25 I would say its less revenge and more of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation
I have a much stupider idea. Miscellaneous assassins try to do the John Wick thing of leaving the assassin life, each one becoming their own "John Wick". Oh, and many waves of enemies just die for no reason and the text "Babayaga" appears on screen when that happens, implying Wick is alive and screwing with the high table.
Awww 🥰 you’re such a amazing fans of mine, which of my movies is your favorite ❤️
Probably they Will cast the rock and said John wick is a code name pased from one operative to another
I like that idea
could you please do a breakdown on the controversy abou Tara and Israel-Hamas war please? (I know by myself Tara isn't racist, but still... it would be cool if you could do it)
Forget to mention, I want to listen to your analysis, criteria and opinion because like many I struggle to write female protagonists, I felt it when I saw your turning red video. Thus I’d like to listen to what you have to say about Damsel so I can learn from the words of Experience.
In regards to a mentorship arc, Jon could end up (perhaps in working with akira) starting a contra force that protects the innocent from the high table, which would inevitably draw him into conflict with old friends and rivals in an attempt to find redemption by bringing peace to all while dealing with the irony of creating another unkillable organization.
Easy. Have John Wick adopt a kitten. You know where I'm going.
I'm not a fan of mindless violence merely for entertainment sake...and, really for any reason. And so I must say that the graphic violence of the Wick franchise is most certainly not mindless. It in integral to the story. The story is not a game and failure has a consequence of certain permanence. The violence demonstrates a certain design to the Wick universe. It is corriographed inside of the story and not merely as a function of cinemagraphic production. This leads one to presume that those who attain a certain level within the Wickverse achieve a certain precience, seeing within the battlespace patterns of behavior within which the master characters move. When presented well on the screen, it becomes a work of art.
So, yes, please, continue your analysis and commentary.
Lionsgate has a dirty habit of saying something is the final chapter only to make a new one a little later. Expendables was the other one milked dry
What we need is a Mr Nobody and Akira movie, that character was very badass and cool
You can immortalize a character that dies by showing the impact their death has had on the world. Their story, which was thought to have ended when they died, continues in the way their mission carries on in the ways of the ones they left behind. Think how Robb Stark and Jon Snow carry on the legacy of Eddard Stark in GoT
As huge fan of the John Wick series. This was a really good breakdown and analysis.