Equipment Review: Best Carbon-Steel Chef's Knives & Our Testing Winner
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- Опубликовано: 20 июн 2024
- Best carbon-steel knife: bit.ly/3QAf1IW
Best stainless-steel knife: bit.ly/3WySU9E
Full review and results chart: bit.ly/1rJ0KXN
Carbon-steel enthusiasts have long considered these knives sharper and more durable than stainless. But do they really perform better-and are they worth the upkeep?
We tested 8 carbon-steel knives to find the best one:
Bob Kramer 8" Carbon Steel Chef’s Knife by Zwilling J.A. Henckels
Tsukiji Masamoto Gyuto, 8 1/4"
Togiharu Virgin Carbon Steel Gyutou, 8.2"
Misono Swedish Carbon Steel Gyutou, 8.2"
Masamoto Sohonten Virgin Carbon Steel Gyutou, 8.2"
Messermeister Park Plaza Carbon 8 Inch Chef’s Knife
R. Murphy Chef’s Select 8 Inch Carbon Steel Chef’s Knife
Sabatier Mexeur et Cie 8" Chef
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Lady has a great delivery, clear, concise summaries with no BS. She's Great!
Hands down, the best factual presentation of chef knives I've seen......not even close. Scientific, factual, no marketing, no BS, just the facts. Thank you for this educational video.
@@billyboy7
Maybe
In the first 15 seconds, she says carbon knives will turn black.
I've never heard the patina described this way.
I have 20+ stainless knives. And only 2 carbon.
I use ginsan in Japanese knives, and the carbon are both German, one modern ( Herder 1922 ) and one heritage, a Gustav Emil Ern.
I've also paused the video only 40 seconds in, to raise the unusual term ( black blade )
I'm pretty sure by end of vid, chef will be a fan of stainless...
3:26 in, and paused again
Just after chef explained not all "carbon steel" ( with hand gestures ) are not the same
Yeah, no joke.
There are many types of carbon steel, from c75 used in heritage European blades, to blue#1 used in Japan.
None of this knowledge is hard to find by googling and taking 5 minutes to *research a purchase*
Vid finished.
Seems more like a Victorinox advertisement than a fair comparison.
😑😔
This is possibly, one of the best review videos I've watched..... ever. This video just does everything right. You wasted none of my time getting right into relevant facts without a big dramatic climax. The whole video felt evenly paced and informative throughout. You didn't focus on any unnecessary facts, you didn't peak interest or lose it, you just stayed perfectly watchable from start to finish. I can't even begin to thank you for such video excellence! Bravo! Bravo!
This is certainly one of the best description of tool-steel metallurgy I have ever seen.
You covered all the important topics: grain structure, sharpening angles, carbon-content vs durability and quality vs price.
And you did this all without slathering jargon on unfamiliar ears. I have been working with hand tools over 50 years and it took me decades to learn what you (mostly) covered in this concise clear video. EXCELLENT!
took you 50 ys cuz you did not had youtube.
These are not "tool" steels. Tool steels generally are like D2, A2, O3, S7, etc.
Knives are sometimes made from these steels, but usually only in niche markets. Steel properties for tool steels often do not translate well into knife steel.
A knife steel needs to be both hard and ductile. Most tool steels, while hard, lose too much ductility . Instead of the edge folding over microscopically, it tends to chip out.
Stay in school Eliana. Stay in school.
I enjoyed the video. The only thing I question was her comment about Rockwell hardness/strength. Hardness and strength are 2 different things. The higher the Rockwell the less ductile or more brittle the knife.
@@G5Hohn I make many of my own knives, and I use A2 - which was originally designed for slitting miles of paper - with great success. S7 for things like cleavers. I despise *most* stainless, and for me (and my microscope) it's been the nickel content that was an issue, not big grains or carbide blobs. It just gets too ductile with the nickel and if you try for a 15 deg edge, it just folds over on the first few cuts - if you can even get there. That said, the holder in my kitchen has one SS knife (cheap) and one pretty pricey Japanese carbon steel one. The S2 knife just lays on the counter for..you name it. Blade shapes are optimized for what they get used for, or is that the other way around?
Thank you for respecting my time and intelligence. This was well worth watching.
Well said. Thorough and concise review.
Saved us $260
And now I'm gonna buy that Victorianox.
I have some Misen knives and they work great.
It's great. I have had mine 11 years now.
I own 2 of them. They work very well for me.
.... This sounds a paid anoucment ... Victorinox is no so great
@@kenbrohere, I wish I could justify that Kramer though. It's a functional work of art.
I am a chef for over 30 years and as a hobby a do make knifes my self.
iMHO: This was the best Knifetest i have seen so far in Internet / TV !
You Guys did really learn the Basics of all Factors and told it correctly.
This makes me a belever of all your'e tests :-)
THX
An outstanding video. The testing, process and explanation is spot on. I was a blacksmith for 13 years as well as a machinist and certified welder. I’m also a chef and have been collecting knives most of my life. To say the forging and heat treating/tempering process can turn the same piece of steel into completely different things is an understatement. I use and prefer carbon knives over stainless. The edge is worth it and I like that they demand to be cared for in a way that any kitchen knife should be. I also absolutely love that victorinox makes it possible for people to own a good knife for very little money. I recommend them all the time with the caveat that a $50 knife and a $500 knife should be cared for and maintained the same. A chef enters and leaves the kitchen with two things. Their skill and their knife roll.
I can't boil water, but I am a knife collector and enthusiast. Thank you for this most informative video. I've been studying metallurgy for close to 40 years. I truly enjoyed your polished presentation. Thanks again.
This is incredible. It's not a review, it's an academic experiment, and a sound one at that. I've never seen one like it, but I hope to see more.
This is the kind of review I have been waiting for and expect from ATK! Well done and continue to be just as technical in the future please. Well done.
Royal Poison me too!
I remember how I use to watch this show on pbs as a kid and would love all the reviews. Love how they keep up with the times and brought it over to RUclips
I like how she at the end compared the victorinox with the $300 knife. Not getting a carbon steel it is.
Wow I’m setting up my home kitchen from scratch and was stumped about what was worth buying for my one knife. This video had numbers and science and was easy to follow. Answered all my questions I didn’t know I had. Subscribed. Thanks for respecting the craftsmanship of you, me, and the blade smiths.
Love it! I have a $400 carbon steel knife, but have really been wanting to upgrade my whole family's knives for Christmas. Happy to hear that I can buy 5 Victorinox knives and still seriously help everyone upgrade their kitchens.
What a wonderful video. I was researching the Victorinox range when I came across this review and I must say, I don't think I've ever come across a review (for any product) has been as thorough and as informative as this one. Thank you for doing it the way it should be done!
This is the best review channel I've ever seen. Objective, informative. I hope that more people can match at least part of your standards.
Incredibly informative. Thank you!
This is the best review channel of all. I have looked to ATK for almost all reviews of kitchen items we’ve purchased, from coffee makers to pans. Thank you!
I started my first ever kitchen job a couple months ago as a prep cook, and bought the Victorinox to help out, and wow, it's the best knife I've ever owned and it really speeds up my work!
This episode demonstrated why I love this channel. It was informative, easily understood and the lady showed exactly what she talked about. I'm forwarding this to a knifemaker friend (who can learn a thing or two.). I have two old carbon-steel knives with no maker marks (I got them from my neighbor, an elderly German woman.) They are excellent tools for cutting.
I love these reviews. They are always well thought out, presented well, and straight forward. Well done. Thank you!!
Very well explained. I was looking for a better knife. By co-incidence my knife is the Victorinox so your comparison was hugely useful to me.
I also like that you get on with the subject, no waffling.
I rate this vid 10/10, thank you.
I've watched so many knife videos this weekend on RUclips, and this one is definitely the best. Very detailed and engaging!
Outstanding!! I have never had this clear of a tutorial of any kind about knives before. That is USEFUL information without all the yapping about with technical terms no one understands. Well Done!!
50 years working with many knives. My favourites are Zwilling. Especially the chef knife. Has worked hard for many years, just bought the new Zwilling 1731 series chef
I am very impressed with this knife.
Incredible research. Thank you for going through all that work.
Lisa and team, I have enjoyed watching all of these videos. This one is over the top excellent. I thought I had watched every knife comparison and was done with the subject. Not so. You continue to provide details that convince. Thank you!
10/10 for review quality - especially ending by recommending one knife. So many do non-comparative reviews to list a top 5 vaguely.
She does the best reviews I've seen. Everything she says is educational. I definitely have seen other reviews from other people and often I have to fast forward and skip some of their BS.
What an excellent video!
1. Thank you for no background music - what joy!
2. Thank you for the succinct, concise delivery of content with no fluff and waste of time. Precise, and short.
3. The content is very rich. So many knives tested with such thoroughness, contributed to the sum total of human knowledge, bravo!!! You took a scientific approach all the way and delivered facts.
4. I really appreciate the no nonsense, practical approach in selecting the Victorinox knife for the kitchen. In the end, value matters too. It is a no fuss blade and saves a lot of time in maintenance. For specialty work like sushi, a knife can be higher maintenance but not everyday high volume cooking.
5. Most of all, thank you for the adherence to a rigorous, high quality review and testing. It's nice to renew my faith in proper testing and reviews. Bravo!
wow. What a great review. Thanks for putting them to the test in such a thoughtful manner.
After watching this Test Kitchen video and another by Scott Rea, I bought a Victorinox 8 inch chef's knife and a 6 inch semi flex boning knife. That was just under five years ago, and they are still in my kitchen. The knives are really sharp. Thank you.
That was a perfect review - covered everything I was thinking of.
I think this review, how it’s organized and the detail of information is fantastic. Great job and very useful.
Now that's how you conduct a review !!! Well done....
could not have been a more objective and thorough comparison. thanks again ATK
Is it me or did they miss one very important thing here. how about resharpening? how much time does it take and how easy is it?
girafmad I'm a bladesmith and I also provide resharpening for my customers and i can tell you that although carbonsteel knives are a bit more time consuming to resharpen they are a blast to work with due the hardness, chromium once it becomes chromium carbide in the steel softens the blade up ( stainless steel knives)
All in all, if it takes me 3/5 min to sharpen a stainless steel knife from dull to hair shaving and 10/15 min to do the same for the carbonsteel knives i have forged.
girafmad It's gotten dull and yes it sharpens in no time at all. I started honing it after every use and it hasn't dulled (again) yet. Prob can't be beat for the price... but there are better knives , for more... as with everything.
Dave H Well, a knife for 50$ is pretty useful, I've had knives that are daily used in "elite" restaurants for 20 or even 10$...
Sure you can use a 10$ knife but you cannot expect much from it, that's why all of their knives come in once a month in my hands for proper resharpening.
But yeah, for home use a 50$ knife is best, no point of going any further if you're not that into knives and use them just for what they are meant to do.
Roadzery ...I definitely prefer my 62 Rockwell hardness Japanese slicers. I can't afford a carbon japanese vegetable knife right now so I thought this knife would suffice. but rather, it's nice to have actually, I had to chop an uncooked lobster tail and was happy to have the softer steel in the kitchen, It cut great, and no chips out of the blade. i don't THINK the japanese knives would of chipped, but i'd still rather use a softer cheaper steel for stuff like that.
Dave H I hear ya.
This presenter and channel are awesome. Six years later and this video stands the test of time! Awesome content!
Wow, this was really well done. Good job guys.
I love this ATK series. Completely independent testing with results we can trust. Subscribed!
Thank you for validating my decision to buy my second and third Victorinox knives (based upon another one of your videos). Your expertise is unquestionable. Great video!
Excellent video. This and understanding the Rockwell Hardness part C is vital in holding the edge. But don't get carried away the highest score is not always the best. It can be brittle and lose durability. It is not as ductile of flexible for the day to day use for most of us non Chefs. The Victornox is fascinating. Chromium Carbides are not your friends.
This is such an amazing channel for all of the kitchen questions I have ever had. Thank you for such a great channel! Of course I have subscribed and shared with all that matter to me.
I really love these guys, they don't just give their opinions. They go above and beyond and use real science in there reviews. Keep it up!!!
Very informative!! Thank you so much, I learnt alot today.
Something else to consider, the higher the Rockwell, the stiffer and more brittle the blade will be. A high RC knife will be great for a chef's knife or a santoku, but anything that might hit bone (cleaver, boning knife) or needs to be flexible (fillet knife) should have more spring in it. Also, never never never let your edge come in to contact with a hard surface if you can help it. Glass, metal, ceramic, some super hard woods, and bone (although this is unavoidable sometimes) will all destroy the microscopic edge that you create when sharpening the blade. This includes throwing the knife in the sink after it has been used. Lastly, Using the blade at a 90 degree angle as a scraper on your cutting board is also a really bad idea. That will "roll" the edge, which will require honing to repair. Either tilt the blade under 45 deg or flip it over and use the spine to move things around instead.
+Colson Customs Interesting because Bob Kramer's custom 52100 blades will pass the ABs performance test. As a matter of fact, they will come back to true after the 90 degree bend. ;-) I don't send ANy knife out from my sho at least than 60Rc and that includes big bowies. It is all about the balde geometry and the heat treatment. As for fillet knives, see who hard Phil Wilson leaves some of his.
Joe M
52100 is good stuff. Can't ever find it in flat stock though. As for your blades, congrats man. 60 rc is pretty hard to have a working blade left at. What steel do you normally use? I'd love to see some of them torture tested.
+Colson Customs Mostly W2, 1084FG, CruForgeV, 115W8 (old German metal cutting saw steel resembling Hitachi Blue #2), CPM 3V, AEB-L and my own 1084Fg/15N20 damascus. I have some O1. 1075 and 5160 lying around, but I haven't used those for ages.
Joe M
CMP 3v and 4v are supposed to be pretty top notch.
CPM 3V is good stuff and now that some knife makers and heat treaters are figuring out how to best use it for cutlery as opposed to tool and die, it is getting even better for our purposes. they did the same thing with D2 and 52100 an the results have been very good. "Factory spec" heat treatment for some tool steels is not always the best spec for knife use.
I bought the Victorinox knife on ATK's recommendation. One of the best purchases I've ever made.
I was close to pulling the trigger but I couldn't get over the cheap looking handle. Ended up going with the Mercer Renaissance and it ended up being a fantastic knife.
Love this comparison. Non-biased and very educational.
(Junior) Material/Process Engineer here: They probably use a combination of fast cooling rates plus forging to get fine grain size. Genrally, finer grian sizes yield smaller carbides since carbides form at the grains. Same abount of carbon is spread across a greater area of boundaries. Other tricks are used too. E.g. using Nb to react with the carbonn instead of chromium.
Just an FYI for those that are interested. Some of the french knives are known for coming to you from the factory with a dull edge. The assumption is that you will sharpen it yourself to your liking and if you don't know how then you probably shouldn't own it(not my opinion just the general attitude around these knives). I can't speak for the Sabatier Mexeur et Cie 8" Chef in terms of once sharpened properly how well it would have performed. I own a number of K Sabatier and they are great but you do have to plan on sharpening them when you get them as they can often come with an inconsistent edge. For someone like me with small hands though and the willingness to commit to the necessary care and sharpening they are great
Thank you so much. I have a Victorinox boning knife and now I know why its the best knife in my house.
As a machinist who cuts both carbon steel and stainless steel, I found this very informative. Well done and thank you!
This lady is quite the presenter. She just puts out the information one needs to make a decision when one wants to buy a product, plus she has such a wonderful voice. I like her.
I really liked this clip and have often thought whether carbon steel is better than stainless steel. I did not know about the chromium carbide clusters, so I learned something which gives you a huge PLUS. Great work! Keep it up, please!
The glass cutting board killed me in the inside
Great video! Now that you're finished, how much do you want for the dull knives? I'll take them. Can you do a video on the sharpening? I'll put my 3 stone method, and mirror smooth finish, up against any other method out there. Thanks for the video, in any case. It is a good one.
Great video, great tests. Everything felt objective and to the point in the manner all test videos should be.
I make knifes as a hobby. I use high carbon steel knives in my kitchen. Funny that...right. For me I make the 300.00 dollar blade but it is the satisfaction at using something that I have crafted myself for myself, custom fitted and formed. What stainless cannot do is give you the look of a Damascus Pattern welded blade that you did not test here. It is truly on another level again. High carbon has not been truly tested until you explore the Damascus option. Loved the presentation.
Exceptional review, thank you!
Great job with the rigor of the testing. I do wonder how consistent are the manufacturing techniques to determine how certain we would get similar performance.
I have that R Murphy and I just can't stop cooking! It's such a nice knife and such a joy to use.
I just bought the Vic 4 knife set the other day and now this pops up in my recommended, nice.
That was one of the greatest reviews I have ever seen. Very well done.
I recently bought a brand new 55 year old 10 inch carbon steel Sabatier.A number of them were found in the storeroom of a Sydney business,Johnson overalls . Best cooks knife i have ever owned,
I LOOOOOOVE this channel and all the great tests you do! Thanks so much.
Just ordered my Kramer from you guys yesterday! Excited to get it. I use mostly Japanese knives, but when I was a chef I always used german.
I have several knives from swiss army to paring to chef's knives made by victorinox some 45 years old and I have been more than satisfied with all of them, it's nice to know a company still has such great standards that you can buy one today and it works as well as the ones I have had 45 years. And the price is still great.
I just discovered this channel and it quickly became my favourite. But only Lisa's reviews. Very scientific and informative, all i want to know without the fuss.
I'm not sure if a Mexeur et Cie, straight out of the box, should be expected to be terribly sharp. When you get a new carbon steel knife from one of the three most popular sabatiers you should probably have it sharpened immediately. The Bob Kramer by Wusthhof is a knife that comes samurai sharp even when brand-spanking-new. Also, there are several sabatier makers like Thiers Issard **** Elephant and K-Sabatier. So using the sabatier name this way might be more akin to saying "knives from the Theirs region" rather than a specific brand. This strikes me as a generalization. Still a good review and I think that for most people the Victorinox Fibrox is the best option. I also find the profile of the Victorinox similar to the french knives.
You do realize that Sabatier in this context refers to the brand named Sabatier. Not a specific knife design or the region of origin.
Yes, that SEM picture really enlightened me.
Great video! So informative! I learned a lot!
I have the Kramer 8" carbon steel chef knife, and it blows every other chef knife I've ever used out of the water. Period. I've been a chef for 21 years, so I've used many different knives over the years, and the Kramer is by far the best I have used.
Awesome, Awesome and Through Knife Revue! Thanks Sooooo, Much!
This is so helpful, thank you!
absolutely wonderful video! please keep em coming!!!!
Would love to see powder steel knives compared in this way. Like the miyabi gyuto.
Thanks, you guys are the best. Always look for your review when I need something.
That was a wonderfully presented video!
There are some amazing powdered HSS’s and SS’s out there these days that far outperform VG-10. Big in the pocket knife world but not yet commonly seen in kitchen knives. CPM S30V, S35V, M390/204P/20CV, M4, CTS XHP, Maxamet (which can achieve over 70 rockwell and shave aluminum rods).
Awesome information, well researched and great presentation. Thank you so much for sharing.
Sabatiers are all from different manufacturers. The only good ones are the Elephant branded ones from Thiers-Issard, so it's a bit rough to slam all their products because of one line.
And even they are left too soft.
The name Sabatier was never copyrighted I believe. Anyone can use it and does. You are right, it gives them all a bad rep now. There are about 3 or 4 that are good
``K Sabatier`` is the real thing!
@@DL-ie4ri I have a 6" carbon steel Sabatier and they are great knife if you get them properly sharp. I never use a knife straight from the box without first sharpening it.
Actually, the ones made in Thiers are all said to be good. K sabatier, diamant, elefant and a few others.
Sebatiers, apparently, you can't get outside France now. My 1960's set still rocks it. Best boning knife I've ever used.
An amazing devotion to testing!
Great video... I use a Old Hickory 8" chef's knife, which is no longer made. I think it only cost about $15 many years ago. I actually prefer it to my very expensive Wustoff; mostly because it is much easier to keep it much sharper. I don't mind the keeping it dry. I really don't have to change much between the stainless and carbon steel knives. I tend to rinse and dry my knife a lot anyway. If the blade gets a heavy patena on it, a little Scotch Brite cleans it right up. I really think it comes down to personal preference. I just wish more people had decent kitchen knives. There's nothing worse than cooking without a decent, sharp knife...
I wouldn't have understood this before using a brand new Cutco knife. I have no idea if they're anywhere near the "best" knives, but compared to all the cheap garbage my family had ever owned, it was like waking up in a whole new world. I had no idea that a good knife made so much difference, so I now totally agree with you that there's nothing worse than cooking without a decent, sharp knife.
babybirdhome
I know what you are saying. I used to think that it didn't matter what kind of knifes you used. Then my Dad bought me a set of good knives and that completely changed my thinking.
I checked Amazon, and saw that the Old Hickory Chef's knife is available in a set, but I didn't see it alone. It's now made by the Ontario Knife Co. I'm really enjoying mine, although I do have to admit my Victorinox is low maintenance.
OsoGrandeKnives.com has Old Hickory knives at decent prices. Both individually or in a block set. Be careful if you are a knife freak like me though. If it has an edge they carry it, knives, swords, axes, spears, everything.
Great test. I would also like to see a test on sharpening and steeling carbon vs stainless. Please?
Time for a refresh on these and stainless with brands such as Shun and Misen that have grown in popularity in the mix.
Excellent review and honest presentation of findings. 👍🏻
Great review. Love the conclusion too. Greetings from Germany.
Best knife review ever... Thanks.
Even 8 years later in finding this review fascinating and informative
Great video! I think I'll get an 8-inch Victorinox sometime this month, or the next. By the way, I've seen these knives on TV called Miracle Blade III. Have you tried to use those in some tests, or something?
Love your series of test kitchen videos. My only confusion of this one is at 5:03. When you said the best buy option of carbon steel knife is Togiharu, the video actually show Masamoto. I know because I own a Masamoto. Either what in the video was wrong or the script was wrong as Masamoto aren't cheap. Just want to point that out. Great video and can't believe Bob Kiamer would beat Masamoto in sharpness. Maybe my next collectable knife. :)
Sounds like they were paid...
wow.....im suprised by this really good video! im so used to chefs knife and sharpening videos exposing their ignorance but this one is really through.
one really important thing about carbon steel knives that wasnt covered is how they take an edge / how they sharpen. good carbon steel knives tend to be easier to sharpen to a higher level, but the gap is closing with good stainless.
Love you reviews! You don't see many high quality hand made hunting or survival knives made out of stainless for a reason but the Victorinox looks like a great buy.
I love this reviewer. I seriously seek out her hosting reviews, even if I have no interest in what she's reviewing. I'm a fan!
I'm a Zwilling fan. I especially love their latest collaborations with blademakers in Japan.
Thank you for the video! Glad I spent $40 on the Victorinox, great knife.
Thank you. Well done. I bogged myself down in this journey of perfection in researching my next knife puchase. Nowhere did I find "any" reference to modern day stainless cutlery. I was convinced that a $300-600 Japanese carbon knife was the holy grail of cutlery. Well, I'm convinced, Victorinox wins hands down. 21st century technology wins the day!
looking for a chefs knife to complete my set … got a small carbon knife, extremely sharp cut true baguettes like slicing paper in the video. It has some stains that give it character. I trust your pick on Victorinoxs chefs knife with the scientific approach its truly amazing. Happy cooking
Do you guys have your victorinox professionally sharpened? (I imagine you do) or do you just hone the blade after each use?