That grandma playing on the piano (and getting eaten by the villain) in this episode was a Classic Who (1970s) Costumer Designer. She designed outfits for Romana. Interesting cameo.
Small point, but it's pronouned my-stro rather than may-stro. As a dyed-in-the-wool Beatles fan, I wasn't bothered by the casting, although George and Ringo were poorly served. Of note (pun intended) is the fact that the final chord that Lennon and McCartney strike is very similar to the one at the end of A Day in the Life from Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. Finally, who else noticed the billboard advert for Chris Waite and the Carollers, a call-back to the very first episode of the show? Admittedly, it's a very deep cut, but it's there and worth mentioning, I think.
Oddly, the chord John and Paul played was a C major chord (I think), whereas the Day in the Life chord is Eb major. Whatever the specifics, it _was_ in a different key to the Sgt Pepper chord. Are they that worried about copyright that they had to transpose it down, or is there some significance to this difference in pitch?
I think the last time we saw any hint of Susan was during Peter Capaldi's/Bill season in which we see framed photos on his desk. One of Susan and one of River.
@@CulturePhilter yeah unfortunately she wasn't but I think a lot of us even those who started with new who (eccleston era) would have known who she was :)
It may not have been a full musical episode, but we got The Beatles 'Dog Song', and Cilla Black's song (can't recall what it was about). the song Ruby plays on the piano, and the 'Twist at the End' song. Speaking of The Beatles, I agree 100% about the actors! You'd think they would have cast guys who resembled the actual real-life Lennon and McCartney a bit better.
Other than the twist song though they were all just snippets of songs. Not actual whole numbers. Ruby’s piano playing had no lyrics so less of a song, just music… lively music but still not a song.
Hey Phil. Loving the podcasts, as ever. I have a question. How has no one noticed that when they sing "always a twist at the end", they are singing the same notes as the Giggle, but in a minor key?! Yes really. Try it. Somebody is playing with our minds!!!
Or, just sing "always a twist at the end" to the tune of the Giggle. See? They're the same notes. We have all been unknowingly infected with an evil ear-worm, designed to send humanity mad! MAD, I tell you!! Maybe this is the 'woke mind virus' I keep hearing about..?
I really loved the dog song, and I loved the doctor's line "I thought that was non-diagetic!" The only thing that really bothered me is that the lost chord was a C major. The most basic chord that everyone uses every single day and they're treating it like Paul McCartney is a genius to think of it
I personally loved the cold-open's transition from the diegetic piano music into the theme tune and back, but fair enough. I am 100% with you on the time-jump though, as I had the same thought - even though I'm not too happy about not getting to see Ruby and the Doctor getting to know each other better - I am happy for BF/comic/fanfiction writers cause they have this time period to play with now lol. But yeah, having more time to set things up between the Doctor and Ruby, as well as spreading the exposition out some more before having such a major time jump, would have been much better. I'm guessing the shorter season is partly at fault here, but still, seemed like a bit of an odd choice pacing-wise. Also, I do kinda agree about the musical number. I loved the production and the dance, but the song itself was a bit meh. That being said, I do think the idea of it only coming after Maestro's defeat was pretty cool - I'm not sure if that was actually the idea behind it, but the way I saw it, was following the same logic of after the Toymaker was defeated. As in, after he was banished, the "rules of play" still lingered, allowing the Doctor to split the TARDIS in two. So, here, after Maestro is defeated, their "spirit of music" lingers, therefore allowing the musical number + musical piano scenes to exist. And tbh, as much as I would love to see a full-on musical episode of DW - after seeing so much negativity online for this episode due to just one musical number, I'm not so sure anymore. I think it would be cool, but I also want the show to do well, and at this point it might be a bit too controversial. Maybe RTD can try it in S3 or 4, but for now, it might be better to let the musical themes rest for a bit haha.
I think there are elements of it that could have worked really well…. But it just missed the mark in having the unmpth I was looking for for a final number🤷♂️
@@AuroraButterflyx having watched it another time I think my main two issues with it are 1) how it starts - it feels like we’re coming in in the middle of a song rather than at the begining 2) it sounds like only about 4 people are singing where as it should be a big chorus number with like 30 singers and harmonies going on.
I indifferent to a musical episode. I personally love the story and the song is so catchy, I think it a a good song to round off the episode, I just felt for the song it went on a bit too long (although that cameo from Murray was pretty funny). Mastero was an excellent villain too (although I missed the whole giggle bit 😅). A solid 8
@@CulturePhilter dw I didn’t even noticed until someone pointed it out. I personally really excited for boom though, as Steven writes excellent stories during Russell original run, so hoping he doesn’t let us down
Absolutely. As I keep saying to anyone who says something as sweeping as “fans don’t want this” or “fans want that” fandom isn’t a monolith and it’s full of different tastes and opinions.
@@CulturePhilter So,So True, Just because I didn't like it doesn't mean other people do or should because I said it's bad.. Have some originality and be yourself :P - Followed you on Twitter btw hope that was alright :)
@@CulturePhilter you have a point, however when someone says, “fans don’t want this” and so on so forth, they mean most fans and they would be correct. You know every dr who series was unique, but still dr who at heart and still had the chemistry, however, now, the show doesn’t really feel like dr who, more feels like it’s trying to be a marvel movie. Though it’s really no surprise since Disney are now in charge and they don’t exactly have a good reputation.
I was all over the place with this episode, using phrases like "cringe alert" "really?" "That was good." ... of course I can never watch it again, I just know that song will stick in my head
Who knows the song might grow on me… the goblin song did after I listened to it about a dozen times … or is that just the audio equivalent of Stockholm syndrome? 🤔😂
To me the song at the end was boring - one and an half lines over and over with a couple measures of repeated music. It would have worked better with that as a chorus and some verses between every few repeats.
I wish they went all in on the music aspect, but still loved the episode. I liked the twist song at first but I feel it went on too long and didn’t have enough word or tempo(?) variety, on top of not really making sense in context. I do like how the song itself seems to be the twist at the end but then it turns out the child is still around, and I feel like the song was maybe meant to distract you so much that you didn’t notice right away.
AS soon as the music number started I fast forwarded - there is NO place for 3 minutes of music in Who - This is a lesson I learnt after 30 seconds of Goblin Song - If this is the future - I'm staying put. Right here! What's this six month gap you talk of? Space Babies directly follows Church, but the space between this and Space Babies is undetermined. BTW - Maestro is pronounced MyStro.
I think there is a place for any type of story in Who. I wouldn’t want songs every week but once in a while is fine. And isn’t new either. Russell’s first era had a few (in Daleks take Manhattan and Voyage of the Damned) and even Moffat era has The Christmas Carol (the best Christmas special) with beautiful music sung by one of the characters.
@@CulturePhilter Not forgetting the musical numbers in Rings of Akhaten and Mummy on the Orient Express. Classic Who was no stranger to this, either: there's the infamous "Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon" in The Gunfighters, the dancing in Four To Doomsday and Black Orchid, King John singing (badly) in The King's Demons and several instances of singing and/or dancing in the 7th Doctor's era.
Apart from the end, I thought it was a good episode. The song didn't have any context within the episode. If they had gone to watch The Beatles perfom Twist & Shout (released in 1963) then the line would have worked and, it would have made sense. As it stood, there was no sense for the musical number, no reason for everyone dancing or rain indoors. It left me feeling flat after such a good episode. Also, with the reference to the first doctor being around at the time, there was no explanation as to why he wouldn't have been involved.
that lack of context plus the how puerile space baby's was has left me totally un-happy with both episodes to the degree 8 m not sure i can re-watch them - and previously in the whole 60 years only the web planet holds that distinction .. I love the twist & shout idea in comparison that would have actually worked - but we know despite Disney money it would have been too expensive to licence.
Absolutely agree that the song would have worked much better being part of the plot rather than tacked onto the end. If it had been part of how they defeated Maestro that would have been so much better.
I hate musicals, but I could cope with a Doctor Who musical episode, but this just dropped the ball. The song at the end is awful and doesn’t sound like a 60s pop song or a song from a musical either. And it’s integrated into the episode so badly. I enjoyed most of the episode, but the climax is weak and drags the rest down.
That’s fair. That song didn’t fill me with confidence in how well Murray Gold could write a whole musical ep. And I feel like he would t stand aside for one ep to let someone else do it either. So maybe it’s better that idea is parked until he has left again.
I LOVE how they're playing with the nature of reality. Also Bonnie Langford's coming back again, isn't she? It would be criminal to not let her sing and dance.
So I'm one of the "not a musical episode!" tribe. But I did love this episode - even Murray Gold's diagetic music! One thing about the final number - you're right, there should have been a build up to it. And the build up should have been the end of the battle with Maestro. The Paul & John piano chord should just have been the beginning of defeating them, bringing more musicians in one by one til the full-on number is a celebration of defeating Maestro. It felt a bit weird, a bit tacked-on to have it after the villain had been banished. But Jinx was genius as Maestro, too good to be one-and-done! I suspect that music will continue to play a part in future episodes, especially given that "secret song" at Ruby's heart. So you may just get your wish yet!
Completely agree with your alternative idea of how the end song should have come about. Ah well. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for that full musical episode one day.
Did they officially confirm it was going to be a musical episode, or was it largely fan hype? As someone who doesn't care for most musicals I was happy it didn't go fully that way, although I get musical fans being disappointed. I love how they brought the theme into play again, yeah it wasn't the best transition and I wanted the whole theme to be piano-centric. I agree that Maestro could have taken it too far but being OTT worked for that character. Again, it was a good fun episode, a little darker this time, with Ruby and the snow, hints to Susan and a little more towards the whole big bad of this season. Also, I think the chord John and Paul played was possibly from the end to A Day In The Life, maybe.
I’m not really down with the whole bednob and broomsticks fantasy element with the musical notes coming alive , too silly even for Doctor who , Jinkx scenery chewing was both mesmerising and cringe , I’m also disappointed it wasn’t a proper musical episode, I was imagining Jinkx controlling people like puppets with them bursting into song uncontrollably , far me sinister than what we got
I was immediately bored by the first few seconds of the final song. Flat describes it perfectly. I loved the Maestro and think Jinx did a masterful job.
I think what made it worse was that all the visuals we’d seen from that song in the trailer, all the dancing, made it look so dynamic… but the music didn’t quite match it.
The Star Trek episode cannot be topped. Im glad they didnt try but even the music they included was not good. Rubys piano song was something i would have expected from a 12 year old.
You’re probably right. As much as I love Murray Gold’s music for non-diagetic film and TV music I haven’t seen anything that makes me think writing a musical would be as much in his wheel house.
Just got that twist at the end gag, it's that Susan Twist thing again. Maybe the Gatwa Doctor is trapped in some bizarre VR dream and nothing in these stories is actually happening?
I can’t see them ever referencing Alex in the show. I’m sad about that, I’d love it if they did, but including Big Finish original characters might start to be TOO confusing for new audiences
I liked this episode better than the first. I don’t really want a musical episode! I ‘d have liked the song at the end if it was Beatle/Dave Clark rip off! But that’s just me!!!
Regarding 5:00. I really don't like this, because we see the Doctor run away and hide from the Bogeyman in Space Babies, but Ruby tells the Doctor here that he never hides. It feels like she is supposed to be at a point that most companions achieve after like half a season or more. And this being Season 1 for a lot of new viewers, I think comes at a detriment, because we - the long time fans - know what the Doctor is like and we understand Ruby here, but to new viewers he might just come across like a coward. I think this shows why TV-Show seasons are supposed to be actual TV-show length and not just 8 episodes. At that point they become longer movies. And that takes the point out of a TV-show, which is to give you more time in this world and with the characters to understand them more. That being said, I still really enjoyed this episode. Yes, there were problems. I also didn't like the song at the end, because it came abrupt and didn't serve any purpose. But otherwise I liked it. I just wish it would be in a longer season.
A longer season certainly would have helped here I think. They might kit have felt as much haste to quicken the development of the relationship between the two.
He's been scared and ran away in both episodes so far, so I think it may be a recurring theme for at least this season. Maybe it's some side effect from the bi-generation split? As in, 10/14 got that part of the Doctor, along with the all the angst, guilt and so on. I don't know of course, it was just a thought.
@@CulturePhilter Google "shows that did a musical episode". The list is a bit too long. Plus when it comes to a villain named maestro that steals music, a 3-year-old could have thought of the idea to make The characters debut episode a musical. We've seen it too many times to count. Giving it a soft thriller vibe was a nice twist, and unexpected because I genuinely thought they were going to make it a musical. That makes it refreshing. I don't want to predict what's coming
@@dcj036 just because it’s been done a lot doesn’t automatically make it bad. There have been some great musical episodes of non musical shows. I find they are usually better when they compose their own original songs and the worse ones are the ones that are jukebox musicals of already popular songs.
@@CulturePhilter and plus let's think about what is happening in the episode. Maestro is taking away music and straight up eating it. Making the episode a musical would have completely taken away the feeling of music being wiped off the face of the Earth
Sorry, I had to stop watching when yoh said you wanted a musical episode. Fans HATE that, Startrek's "Subspace Rapsody" was, put bluntly... Bloody Aweful. We Do Not Want Who to do the same Please🙏
“Fans” are not a monolith and have varied and differing opinions on what they want. I am a long term fan of both Doctor Who and Star Trek and absolutely love (well done) musical episodes of stuff. There are many other fans who feel the same. The Star Trek one was fantastic. Of course you can get bad musical episodes of stuff too. Depends on the strength of the song writers. I must admit though after the end song of this episode , which I wasn’t keen on, I’m not confident that Murray Gold could pull that off. He’s a great film and TV score composer but I’m not sure about his song writing after this. If they got someone different in to do it though….
I very much enjoyed the musical episodes in The Flash and Once Upon A Time. Some people just don't like musicals, fine. But it is definitely not everyone, or else musicals wouldn't be a thing, and the creators of these shows wouldn't bother bringing in those elements once in a while. The song at the end of The Devil's Chord is just terrible. Repeating "There's always a Twist at the end" and just listing unconnected words and things. It could have brought the whole episode to a fun, wholesome note, but instead it kinda ruined the ending for me.
Maestro was unhinged af. Weird character that acts like the embodiment of schizophrenia. This episode was bad. It was supposed to be about the Beatles and yet the Beatles rarely appeared. Also dr who is not a musical and so should not have ppl singing in it. Russel Davies lied to us.
Maestro was unhinged… and that’s what made them great to watch. As for “supposed to be about the Beatles”… says who? We ASSUMED it was but that clearly wasn’t the story that Russell wanted to tell. Perhaps that’s on us for assuming. As for musicals. Any sci-fi or fantasy show can easily have a musical episode within the constrains of its own in-universe logic. And I love it when shows do that. I don’t want songs every week but once in a while it’s a nice bit of fun.
@@CulturePhilter russel said it was gonna be about the Beatles. Which even if he didn’t say that, it was obvious. Think about it, the episode with Charles dickens back in series 1 was about charles dickens, the unicorn and the wasp was about Agitha Christie, Vincent and the doctor was about Vincent Van Gogh. So why would they put the Beatles in an episode if it wasn’t going to be about them? It does make sense bc it means that he could have literally put a famous person in there and the story would be exactly the same. However, if say, took Vincent out of Vincent and the doctor, the story would be completely different. Also there was no reason to for Maestro to be unhinged, he’s supposed to symbolise music, not symbolise and act like a schizophrenic. We have no back story about him whatsoever, apart from the fact that he’s the child of the toy maker. We aren’t even told who his mother is. There’s too many plot holes in this episode. It’s a shame really, bc Space babies was actually quite a decent episode. Hopefully the rest of the series is as good as space babies.
@@Ibalistic_hedge yes in the past they have made historical figures the focus of the episode. That doesn’t mean you have to do that every time. It’s ok to try different approaches. If the story had been about the maestro stealing specifically the Beatles music then yes it would be odd not to see them more. But they were there as mainly an example of just one instance of what had actually happened to the whole world. As for Maestro’s “mother” who says they have one? They are almost omnipotent creatures from another universe that warp reality in ours, who knows how they reproduce. Could be completely asexually.
@@CulturePhilter we have not been told that the toymaker is Asexual though. A since he is in human form, same with maestro, both would have the same reproductive parts as a human so they cannot be asexual (Ik they say humans can be, but they can’t as asexual means can reproduce without sexual reproduction which humans can’t do) and therefore maestro would have a mother. Also, omnipotent means all knowing, not asexual. So that’s irrelevant to the both of them.
@@Ibalistic_hedge I suggested a possibility, nothing definitive. They come from a different universe, for all we know their true form is a big ball of glowing energy. I’m not saying assume they are asexual I’m saying don’t assume anything. Including that they reproduce thee same way as us and therefore MUST have a mother. They might have a mother, they might not 🤷♂️ we may never know.
Couldn't agree more. Especially when you see classic Who (well-written scripts, no silly fourth-wall breaking which is not a Who thing, etc, debating ethics without being preachy.): ruclips.net/video/9PXdwqlJ19U/видео.html
@@KennethDillard no silly 4th wall breaking in classic who? Are you forgetting the 1st Doctor turning to camera and wishing everyone at home a merry Christmas? 😄
Buffy musical ep, Flash musical ep and Star Trek musical ep all widely regarded as great. They’ll never convince those that just don’t like that sort of thing but I think I’d be a mistake to presume just because those people shout loudest that they are the predominant opinion.
@@ishaandw - not well liked by who? I know loads of people that DO like it. There isn’t really an accurate way to determine if you’re only happen to be hearing from the fans on one side of it. 🤷♂️
![KSI - Thick Of It (feat. Trippie Redd) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/At8v_Yc044Y/mqdefault.jpg)
That grandma playing on the piano (and getting eaten by the villain) in this episode was a Classic Who (1970s) Costumer Designer. She designed outfits for Romana. Interesting cameo.
Yes, lovely idea to have her cameo
@@CulturePhilterShe also designed Tom’s burgundy scarf.
I didn’t want a musical episode so I,m fine. I actually enjoyed the “bad” songs the Beatles and cilla played, that was funny
Small point, but it's pronouned my-stro rather than may-stro. As a dyed-in-the-wool Beatles fan, I wasn't bothered by the casting, although George and Ringo were poorly served. Of note (pun intended) is the fact that the final chord that Lennon and McCartney strike is very similar to the one at the end of A Day in the Life from Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. Finally, who else noticed the billboard advert for Chris Waite and the Carollers, a call-back to the very first episode of the show? Admittedly, it's a very deep cut, but it's there and worth mentioning, I think.
I didn’t notice the bill-board reference myself but did see one of the art team from the show tweet about it. Nice nod.
Oddly, the chord John and Paul played was a C major chord (I think), whereas the Day in the Life chord is Eb major. Whatever the specifics, it _was_ in a different key to the Sgt Pepper chord. Are they that worried about copyright that they had to transpose it down, or is there some significance to this difference in pitch?
I think the last time we saw any hint of Susan was during Peter Capaldi's/Bill season in which we see framed photos on his desk. One of Susan and one of River.
Yes, and even then she wasn’t mentioned by name.
@@CulturePhilter yeah unfortunately she wasn't but I think a lot of us even those who started with new who (eccleston era) would have known who she was :)
@@fredneckteddy yes it was nice nod to the history.
It may not have been a full musical episode, but we got The Beatles 'Dog Song', and Cilla Black's song (can't recall what it was about). the song Ruby plays on the piano, and the 'Twist at the End' song. Speaking of The Beatles, I agree 100% about the actors! You'd think they would have cast guys who resembled the actual real-life Lennon and McCartney a bit better.
Other than the twist song though they were all just snippets of songs. Not actual whole numbers.
Ruby’s piano playing had no lyrics so less of a song, just music… lively music but still not a song.
Hey Phil. Loving the podcasts, as ever. I have a question.
How has no one noticed that when they sing "always a twist at the end", they are singing the same notes as the Giggle, but in a minor key?! Yes really. Try it.
Somebody is playing with our minds!!!
Try it? I wouldn’t know how 😄
@@CulturePhilter Sing the tune, spacing the notes out evenly.
Or, just sing "always a twist at the end" to the tune of the Giggle. See? They're the same notes. We have all been unknowingly infected with an evil ear-worm, designed to send humanity mad! MAD, I tell you!! Maybe this is the 'woke mind virus' I keep hearing about..?
I really loved the dog song, and I loved the doctor's line "I thought that was non-diagetic!"
The only thing that really bothered me is that the lost chord was a C major. The most basic chord that everyone uses every single day and they're treating it like Paul McCartney is a genius to think of it
Not knowing anything about music that, unsurprisingly didn’t bother me at all 😄
I personally loved the cold-open's transition from the diegetic piano music into the theme tune and back, but fair enough.
I am 100% with you on the time-jump though, as I had the same thought - even though I'm not too happy about not getting to see Ruby and the Doctor getting to know each other better - I am happy for BF/comic/fanfiction writers cause they have this time period to play with now lol. But yeah, having more time to set things up between the Doctor and Ruby, as well as spreading the exposition out some more before having such a major time jump, would have been much better. I'm guessing the shorter season is partly at fault here, but still, seemed like a bit of an odd choice pacing-wise.
Also, I do kinda agree about the musical number. I loved the production and the dance, but the song itself was a bit meh. That being said, I do think the idea of it only coming after Maestro's defeat was pretty cool - I'm not sure if that was actually the idea behind it, but the way I saw it, was following the same logic of after the Toymaker was defeated. As in, after he was banished, the "rules of play" still lingered, allowing the Doctor to split the TARDIS in two. So, here, after Maestro is defeated, their "spirit of music" lingers, therefore allowing the musical number + musical piano scenes to exist.
And tbh, as much as I would love to see a full-on musical episode of DW - after seeing so much negativity online for this episode due to just one musical number, I'm not so sure anymore. I think it would be cool, but I also want the show to do well, and at this point it might be a bit too controversial. Maybe RTD can try it in S3 or 4, but for now, it might be better to let the musical themes rest for a bit haha.
The thing with the negativity is that they are always the loudest. It doesn’t mean they are in the majority.
Myself being a long time comic book collector, when I hear Maestro, I think of the evil future incarnation of the Hulk .
Oh, yeah I think I’ve heard of/seen a few images of him. Never read one of the comics with him in though.
@@CulturePhilterIt’s a great two issue story.
Hot take, but i like the twist song 😂 Anyway, i’ll watch the video tomorrow as its 11:36pm here lol
I think there are elements of it that could have worked really well…. But it just missed the mark in having the unmpth I was looking for for a final number🤷♂️
@@CulturePhilter I do wish that there was more different words in it though
I love it again as well. I was quite surprised it wasn’t well received. It’s so catchy.
@@AuroraButterflyx having watched it another time I think my main two issues with it are 1) how it starts - it feels like we’re coming in in the middle of a song rather than at the begining
2) it sounds like only about 4 people are singing where as it should be a big chorus number with like 30 singers and harmonies going on.
@@CulturePhilter Yeah that's pretty valid tbh.
I really enjoyed the episode and Mistro was a brilliant villain, don't know if it's just me but it had a season finale vibe to me.
I wonder if we’ll see Maestro return in the finale, their child is still creeping around at the end after all.
I indifferent to a musical episode. I personally love the story and the song is so catchy, I think it a a good song to round off the episode, I just felt for the song it went on a bit too long (although that cameo from Murray was pretty funny). Mastero was an excellent villain too (although I missed the whole giggle bit 😅). A solid 8
I completely missed the Murray cameo 😄
@@CulturePhilter dw I didn’t even noticed until someone pointed it out. I personally really excited for boom though, as Steven writes excellent stories during Russell original run, so hoping he doesn’t let us down
Fantastic Review :) I love how in all our review videos we all have different viewpoints on this episode 🤣
Absolutely. As I keep saying to anyone who says something as sweeping as “fans don’t want this” or “fans want that” fandom isn’t a monolith and it’s full of different tastes and opinions.
@@CulturePhilter So,So True, Just because I didn't like it doesn't mean other people do or should because I said it's bad.. Have some originality and be yourself :P - Followed you on Twitter btw hope that was alright :)
@@TardisTalks of course 🙂
Well yeah that’s kind the whole point of ppl having different opinions.
@@CulturePhilter you have a point, however when someone says, “fans don’t want this” and so on so forth, they mean most fans and they would be correct. You know every dr who series was unique, but still dr who at heart and still had the chemistry, however, now, the show doesn’t really feel like dr who, more feels like it’s trying to be a marvel movie. Though it’s really no surprise since Disney are now in charge and they don’t exactly have a good reputation.
I can't wait for canon catch up
Thanks. 🙂
I was all over the place with this episode, using phrases like "cringe alert" "really?" "That was good." ... of course I can never watch it again, I just know that song will stick in my head
Same
Who knows the song might grow on me… the goblin song did after I listened to it about a dozen times … or is that just the audio equivalent of Stockholm syndrome? 🤔😂
@@CulturePhilter Attack Of The Killer Ear Worm :)
To me the song at the end was boring - one and an half lines over and over with a couple measures of repeated music. It would have worked better with that as a chorus and some verses between every few repeats.
Yeah absolutely
I wish they went all in on the music aspect, but still loved the episode.
I liked the twist song at first but I feel it went on too long and didn’t have enough word or tempo(?) variety, on top of not really making sense in context. I do like how the song itself seems to be the twist at the end but then it turns out the child is still around, and I feel like the song was maybe meant to distract you so much that you didn’t notice right away.
The length wasn’t so much the issue for me. I’d spent the episode wishing the few fleeting moments of song had been longer and propoer songs.
I did pick up the recent FCBD comic for the 15th Doctor comic.
Me too. Did you like it?
@@CulturePhilterYes I did.
AS soon as the music number started I fast forwarded - there is NO place for 3 minutes of music in Who - This is a lesson I learnt after 30 seconds of Goblin Song - If this is the future - I'm staying put. Right here!
What's this six month gap you talk of? Space Babies directly follows Church, but the space between this and Space Babies is undetermined.
BTW - Maestro is pronounced MyStro.
that mention it being june 2024 in the episode so 6 months after ruby road.
@@binrotheheretic8174 I just took that as part of the whole breaking the fourth wall scenario
I think there is a place for any type of story in Who. I wouldn’t want songs every week but once in a while is fine. And isn’t new either. Russell’s first era had a few (in Daleks take Manhattan and Voyage of the Damned) and even Moffat era has The Christmas Carol (the best Christmas special) with beautiful music sung by one of the characters.
And there was a line that establishes that for Ruby back home it’s now June where as it was still Christmas for her in Space Babies.
@@CulturePhilter Not forgetting the musical numbers in Rings of Akhaten and Mummy on the Orient Express. Classic Who was no stranger to this, either: there's the infamous "Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon" in The Gunfighters, the dancing in Four To Doomsday and Black Orchid, King John singing (badly) in The King's Demons and several instances of singing and/or dancing in the 7th Doctor's era.
Apart from the end, I thought it was a good episode. The song didn't have any context within the episode. If they had gone to watch The Beatles perfom Twist & Shout (released in 1963) then the line would have worked and, it would have made sense.
As it stood, there was no sense for the musical number, no reason for everyone dancing or rain indoors.
It left me feeling flat after such a good episode.
Also, with the reference to the first doctor being around at the time, there was no explanation as to why he wouldn't have been involved.
Also, he said he thought Susan might be dead. Yet he has never tried to look for her. Would love an on screen explanation as to why.
I also thought the chord the beatles played sounded like the final not of 'Day in the Life'. I could be wrong though.
@@daver9819yeah me too.
that lack of context plus the how puerile space baby's was has left me totally un-happy with both episodes to the degree 8 m not sure i can re-watch them - and previously in the whole 60 years only the web planet holds that distinction ..
I love the twist & shout idea in comparison that would have actually worked - but we know despite Disney money it would have been too expensive to licence.
Absolutely agree that the song would have worked much better being part of the plot rather than tacked onto the end. If it had been part of how they defeated Maestro that would have been so much better.
Bit nitpicky I know but it's Totter's Yard rather than Trotter's.
Whoops 😬 where do I hand in my fan membership card? 😄
😊 Everyone is allowed to make the odd slip. I know I've made loads 🙂
Nice review too
Totter's Lane, in fact.
@@andrewbowman4611 I did realise while editing that I made that mistake. It is of course I.M Foreman’s yard
I hate musicals, but I could cope with a Doctor Who musical episode, but this just dropped the ball. The song at the end is awful and doesn’t sound like a 60s pop song or a song from a musical either. And it’s integrated into the episode so badly. I enjoyed most of the episode, but the climax is weak and drags the rest down.
That’s fair. That song didn’t fill me with confidence in how well Murray Gold could write a whole musical ep. And I feel like he would t stand aside for one ep to let someone else do it either. So maybe it’s better that idea is parked until he has left again.
@@CulturePhilter I think Gold is overrated. I was miffed that he is back again.
@@stephenreed2093 I think he’s quite good at tv and film score. Not so much as a song writer
I LOVE how they're playing with the nature of reality.
Also Bonnie Langford's coming back again, isn't she? It would be criminal to not let her sing and dance.
And if Jonathan Groff comes back after Rogue….
So I'm one of the "not a musical episode!" tribe. But I did love this episode - even Murray Gold's diagetic music! One thing about the final number - you're right, there should have been a build up to it. And the build up should have been the end of the battle with Maestro. The Paul & John piano chord should just have been the beginning of defeating them, bringing more musicians in one by one til the full-on number is a celebration of defeating Maestro. It felt a bit weird, a bit tacked-on to have it after the villain had been banished. But Jinx was genius as Maestro, too good to be one-and-done! I suspect that music will continue to play a part in future episodes, especially given that "secret song" at Ruby's heart. So you may just get your wish yet!
Completely agree with your alternative idea of how the end song should have come about. Ah well. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for that full musical episode one day.
I enjoyed for what it was
Yes, once I got away from my own expectations I enjoyed it a lot more.
The dog song is the best Beatles song
😄
I thought that the battle with the Maestro went on too long.
Maybe. I think it would have been better to include the song into the final battle.
Did they officially confirm it was going to be a musical episode, or was it largely fan hype?
As someone who doesn't care for most musicals I was happy it didn't go fully that way, although I get musical fans being disappointed. I love how they brought the theme into play again, yeah it wasn't the best transition and I wanted the whole theme to be piano-centric. I agree that Maestro could have taken it too far but being OTT worked for that character. Again, it was a good fun episode, a little darker this time, with Ruby and the snow, hints to Susan and a little more towards the whole big bad of this season.
Also, I think the chord John and Paul played was possibly from the end to A Day In The Life, maybe.
No, no one official ever said it would be a musical… was dan speculation. But to be fair to us it very much looked like it was going to be.
@@CulturePhilter Yeah, I agree that it looked that way, I've just tried to avoid most BTS stuff so I wasn't sure if it was official or not.
I’m not really down with the whole bednob and broomsticks fantasy element with the musical notes coming alive , too silly even for Doctor who , Jinkx scenery chewing was both mesmerising and cringe , I’m also disappointed it wasn’t a proper musical episode, I was imagining Jinkx controlling people like puppets with them bursting into song uncontrollably , far me sinister than what we got
I’m hoping she comes back at some point and we do get an episode where that happens.
I was immediately bored by the first few seconds of the final song. Flat describes it perfectly. I loved the Maestro and think Jinx did a masterful job.
I think what made it worse was that all the visuals we’d seen from that song in the trailer, all the dancing, made it look so dynamic… but the music didn’t quite match it.
@@CulturePhilter No, it didn’t. Weird that Disney couldn’t have helped come up with something better. All those Oscars, you know. 🤷♀️
The Star Trek episode cannot be topped. Im glad they didnt try but even the music they included was not good. Rubys piano song was something i would have expected from a 12 year old.
You’re probably right. As much as I love Murray Gold’s music for non-diagetic film and TV music I haven’t seen anything that makes me think writing a musical would be as much in his wheel house.
Just got that twist at the end gag, it's that Susan Twist thing again. Maybe the Gatwa Doctor is trapped in some bizarre VR dream and nothing in these stories is actually happening?
I’ve heard a few people posit similar theories.
No just it is not all a dream stop it
Could ruby be jenny daughter or ruby might be Susan biological granddaughter via alex campbell if he has kids before he was killed by dalek ?
I can’t see them ever referencing Alex in the show. I’m sad about that, I’d love it if they did, but including Big Finish original characters might start to be TOO confusing for new audiences
@@CulturePhilter but then they might have to bring lucy "bleeding" miller (iirc) in to a story 😀
@@binrotheheretic8174 well she’s dead.
@@CulturePhilter when has that been a barrier ? 😀
@@binrotheheretic8174 good point 😄
I liked this episode better than the first. I don’t really want a musical episode! I ‘d have liked the song at the end if it was Beatle/Dave Clark rip off! But that’s just me!!!
I get not everyone is a fan of musicals. Personally I love them though.
Regarding 5:00.
I really don't like this, because we see the Doctor run away and hide from the Bogeyman in Space Babies, but Ruby tells the Doctor here that he never hides. It feels like she is supposed to be at a point that most companions achieve after like half a season or more. And this being Season 1 for a lot of new viewers, I think comes at a detriment, because we - the long time fans - know what the Doctor is like and we understand Ruby here, but to new viewers he might just come across like a coward.
I think this shows why TV-Show seasons are supposed to be actual TV-show length and not just 8 episodes. At that point they become longer movies. And that takes the point out of a TV-show, which is to give you more time in this world and with the characters to understand them more.
That being said, I still really enjoyed this episode. Yes, there were problems. I also didn't like the song at the end, because it came abrupt and didn't serve any purpose.
But otherwise I liked it. I just wish it would be in a longer season.
A longer season certainly would have helped here I think. They might kit have felt as much haste to quicken the development of the relationship between the two.
He's been scared and ran away in both episodes so far, so I think it may be a recurring theme for at least this season. Maybe it's some side effect from the bi-generation split? As in, 10/14 got that part of the Doctor, along with the all the angst, guilt and so on. I don't know of course, it was just a thought.
Turning it into a musical would have been a cliche honestly
How so?
@@CulturePhilter Google "shows that did a musical episode". The list is a bit too long. Plus when it comes to a villain named maestro that steals music, a 3-year-old could have thought of the idea to make The characters debut episode a musical. We've seen it too many times to count. Giving it a soft thriller vibe was a nice twist, and unexpected because I genuinely thought they were going to make it a musical. That makes it refreshing. I don't want to predict what's coming
@@dcj036 just because it’s been done a lot doesn’t automatically make it bad. There have been some great musical episodes of non musical shows. I find they are usually better when they compose their own original songs and the worse ones are the ones that are jukebox musicals of already popular songs.
@@CulturePhilter and plus let's think about what is happening in the episode. Maestro is taking away music and straight up eating it. Making the episode a musical would have completely taken away the feeling of music being wiped off the face of the Earth
@@dcj036 absolutely and I do concede that in the review.
Sorry, I had to stop watching when yoh said you wanted a musical episode. Fans HATE that, Startrek's "Subspace Rapsody" was, put bluntly... Bloody Aweful. We Do Not Want Who to do the same Please🙏
“Fans” are not a monolith and have varied and differing opinions on what they want. I am a long term fan of both Doctor Who and Star Trek and absolutely love (well done) musical episodes of stuff. There are many other fans who feel the same. The Star Trek one was fantastic.
Of course you can get bad musical episodes of stuff too. Depends on the strength of the song writers.
I must admit though after the end song of this episode , which I wasn’t keen on, I’m not confident that Murray Gold could pull that off. He’s a great film and TV score composer but I’m not sure about his song writing after this.
If they got someone different in to do it though….
I very much enjoyed the musical episodes in The Flash and Once Upon A Time.
Some people just don't like musicals, fine. But it is definitely not everyone, or else musicals wouldn't be a thing, and the creators of these shows wouldn't bother bringing in those elements once in a while.
The song at the end of The Devil's Chord is just terrible.
Repeating "There's always a Twist at the end" and just listing unconnected words and things.
It could have brought the whole episode to a fun, wholesome note, but instead it kinda ruined the ending for me.
Maestro was unhinged af. Weird character that acts like the embodiment of schizophrenia. This episode was bad. It was supposed to be about the Beatles and yet the Beatles rarely appeared. Also dr who is not a musical and so should not have ppl singing in it. Russel Davies lied to us.
Maestro was unhinged… and that’s what made them great to watch.
As for “supposed to be about the Beatles”… says who? We ASSUMED it was but that clearly wasn’t the story that Russell wanted to tell. Perhaps that’s on us for assuming.
As for musicals. Any sci-fi or fantasy show can easily have a musical episode within the constrains of its own in-universe logic. And I love it when shows do that. I don’t want songs every week but once in a while it’s a nice bit of fun.
@@CulturePhilter russel said it was gonna be about the Beatles. Which even if he didn’t say that, it was obvious. Think about it, the episode with Charles dickens back in series 1 was about charles dickens, the unicorn and the wasp was about Agitha Christie, Vincent and the doctor was about Vincent Van Gogh. So why would they put the Beatles in an episode if it wasn’t going to be about them? It does make sense bc it means that he could have literally put a famous person in there and the story would be exactly the same. However, if say, took Vincent out of Vincent and the doctor, the story would be completely different.
Also there was no reason to for Maestro to be unhinged, he’s supposed to symbolise music, not symbolise and act like a schizophrenic. We have no back story about him whatsoever, apart from the fact that he’s the child of the toy maker. We aren’t even told who his mother is. There’s too many plot holes in this episode. It’s a shame really, bc Space babies was actually quite a decent episode. Hopefully the rest of the series is as good as space babies.
@@Ibalistic_hedge yes in the past they have made historical figures the focus of the episode. That doesn’t mean you have to do that every time. It’s ok to try different approaches. If the story had been about the maestro stealing specifically the Beatles music then yes it would be odd not to see them more. But they were there as mainly an example of just one instance of what had actually happened to the whole world.
As for Maestro’s “mother” who says they have one? They are almost omnipotent creatures from another universe that warp reality in ours, who knows how they reproduce. Could be completely asexually.
@@CulturePhilter we have not been told that the toymaker is Asexual though. A since he is in human form, same with maestro, both would have the same reproductive parts as a human so they cannot be asexual (Ik they say humans can be, but they can’t as asexual means can reproduce without sexual reproduction which humans can’t do) and therefore maestro would have a mother.
Also, omnipotent means all knowing, not asexual. So that’s irrelevant to the both of them.
@@Ibalistic_hedge I suggested a possibility, nothing definitive.
They come from a different universe, for all we know their true form is a big ball of glowing energy.
I’m not saying assume they are asexual I’m saying don’t assume anything. Including that they reproduce thee same way as us and therefore MUST have a mother.
They might have a mother, they might not 🤷♂️ we may never know.
This was Dr who ? No,no it was not.
Sure it was
Couldn't agree more. Especially when you see classic Who (well-written scripts, no silly fourth-wall breaking which is not a Who thing, etc, debating ethics without being preachy.): ruclips.net/video/9PXdwqlJ19U/видео.html
@@KennethDillard no silly 4th wall breaking in classic who? Are you forgetting the 1st Doctor turning to camera and wishing everyone at home a merry Christmas? 😄
Musical episodes are usually poorly received so it was smart to make this about music rather than a musical episode.
Buffy musical ep, Flash musical ep and Star Trek musical ep all widely regarded as great.
They’ll never convince those that just don’t like that sort of thing but I think I’d be a mistake to presume just because those people shout loudest that they are the predominant opinion.
@@CulturePhilter I love the Flash musical but it's not well-liked. Some people's reactions to musical episodes is pure apathy
@@ishaandw - not well liked by who? I know loads of people that DO like it. There isn’t really an accurate way to determine if you’re only happen to be hearing from the fans on one side of it. 🤷♂️
@@CulturePhilter It's one of the lowest rated episodes on IMDB and general rankings on other sites and by fans puts it low.
@@ishaandw It's the lowest rated Strange New Worlds episode on IMDB.
Many people don't like musicals.