As a Husband/Father on the outside looking in. My wife is BSN. She began nursing later than most. Graduated ASN @ 50, Now a BSN. Currently enrolled in a MSN program. My daughter, ASN for 2 years. ASN is a favorable way to begin the career. A lot less cost. As well as ability to begin earning earlier with out a massive student load obligation. Also, with many available options to advance education. Just the perspective of a proud husband and father.
I am a BSN prepared RN who started out with an ADN and I agree with what you said. Although the BSN is great and I can already see the benefits to practice or at least career of having it, not everyone can afford the BSN right off the bat. The RN to BSN route was the best one for me. Now that I'm accepted into my college's graduate nursing program ..I'm kind of feeling like MSN vs DNP is a similar debate to be had. I dont want to feel or be functionally inferior to other NPs Nonetheless, due to time and money constraints..I think MSN will be the way I'll go for now.
I am currently a BSN to DNP student and I chose that because I’d really love to teach at the university level in the future. I LOVE nursing and I want to be able to say that I am an expert in my field.
I am with you on the teaching thing! It will probably be what has me go back, and I think thats AWESOME that you will be able to back up our expertise with that DNP!
Kylee McKay that’s a great goal! I am interested in it too. I am gifted at teaching, but it doesn’t seem to pay near enough opposed to NP and others. What have u been able to find out?
How is it going? Isn' it too hard? Actually I am also thinking going to DNP program of graduate school but want to hear the actual atmosphere and environment or something.
This makes ABSOLUTE total sense, your thought process is the same as mine. A DNP should have more hours to specialize and practice your specialty instead of researching and leading or teaching just like a Doctor goes to school for several years to practice instead of research!
I currently have my ADN working my first inpatient nursing job. I went to community college and paid it all out of pocket. I signed a contract in my hospital to get my BSN within 5 years, and my hospital offers to partially pay tuition. Retrospectively, this was probably the best route because I saved so much money!!!
Agree. I did my ASN. There is NO need to obtain a BSN as the only difference is theory-based. If a hospital/facility wants it, they can pay for you to continue the classes. If you want to pursue a Practitioner license, you can more actively pursue it.
I'm a semester away from graduating with my MHA and I've always wanted to be a nurse. I told myself I wasn't smart enough, but then I realized I don't have to be the smartest I just have to put in the work. So. I'm going to apply to the nursing program.
@@KCM1 with the np. You can take it in stages well you have to... but here is the greatest you can be a ADN first then get your BSN then MSN which will get you the NP. Eventually though I believe all NPs will need DNP... doctorate....
This was soooo helpful!! Thank you!! I am a current nursing student (graduating in 2020) and am feeling a big pull to be an NP. I don’t want a DNP because I despise research (and those research clinical hours sound unbearable)! You helped me weigh my options better! Thank you!!
Hi Liz! Thank you for an awesome video! Just wanted to share my experience as a current BSN to DNP student. Not all DNP programs are the same of course, but the research component is still clinically based on patient care. The research part in my specific program is actually based on my actual clinical site so I do see my patients and provide care while also addressing any clinical concerns or needs I observe at my site, through like you mentioned a “research” project. All my hours both research and clinical are with direct patient care, they are not split between seeing patients and sitting at a desk doing research because my project depends on my patients. For example, if I notice most of my patients are not seeing improvements in BP management due to language barriers I would look at what evidence based literature says can help address that issue and implement it within that population. Yes I still have a final paper/project and presentation but I feel like what your describing as far as the research aspect is more so PhD programs not the DNP. So from my experience nurses shouldn’t shy away from the DNP based on having to do research, as a DNP prepared NP you are implementing research in your practice not conducting an actual research study. I think everyone should definitely look into the programs available before “hopping” on any trains as well lol and find the ones that are best suited for their goals. Hopes this provides some insight to you all 😊
Thanks for your input! I totally hear you on the clinical hours being mixed with research, and it sounds like you are getting a ton out of it! I just wish it was less research focused (could be accomplished other ways in my opinion) and more in clinical only. But I love hearing that you have had a good experience with it!! Hopefully others do as well!
Hey Tia! Yaaasss I was thinking the same thing! As I am doing research on different DNP schools I see that there are two different ones. A practicing DNP and then a PhD in NP. May I ask what school you are attending?
@Tia Cimeus I hope that you do well in your program by the way!! I’m really trying to seek advice and guidance would love your input and any tips from you!
I agree. What's shes describing sounds more like a PhD philosophical degree. From my understanding, the DNP is more of a CLINICAL practice degree. Using research to improve clinical practice
At least for the ADN vs BSN, I read that lots of hospitals just want more BSNs because it increases their "magnet status" (just makes their ranking higher, for some reason). I think lots of people, including the ANCC, think that more education = a better professional, which isn't always true. Here in Hawaii, even with a BSN, most hospitals won't hire a new nurse grad unless they've had months to years of prior hospital/patient care experience (i.e CNA or some kind of technician). It's craziness out there and it's probably contributing to our national shortage of nurses!!!
completely agree! I think ANCC has completely focused on the wrong thing like you said, believing that more theory will produce better nurses. Other medical disciplines don't operate on that idea AT ALL and they do quite well. nursing could definitely take a hint! And thats wild about Hawaii. I didn't know it was like that out there. Yikes!
You have a point. I know many old-school LVNs/LPNs who are far more clinically competent, based on experience. This is mostly anecdotal, though. The actual data derived from experimental studies on the topic consistently shows that more formal nurisng education translates to better patient outcomes. The evidence is clear. This is why magnate hospitals now have in-house residencies for new BSNs.
Hey Liz! You made alot of valid points. I'm just completed my first semester in a BSN-DNP program. I'm attaining my DNP because I know having that as an option I would want to get it, so I'm going straight for it! I don't want to go back to school once I'm done. My program is 3yrs full time. Excited about the future!
Love this video. With the shortage of providers in this country it is amazing how the thought even exist to create more hurdles for aspiring providers. I agree that DNP programs should be geared towards advancing the clinical practice for NP's. I feel that this is coming up and we will soon see these programs!
I'm currently getting my Doctorate and god I wish I hadn't. I started as a BSN-MS/FNP student and transferred to the Doctoral program one year into the Masters program. REGRET isn't even the word to describe what I feel right now. I am burned out while spending THOUSANDS of dollars out of pocket for this for essentially no reason. I watched my classmates graduate in May while they withheld my Masters degree (if I knew they weren't going to give me my Masters I would not have transferred). So while I am able to take the ANCC/AANP board certification (so they say) I would not be certified as an FNP until 12/2023 when I receive my DNP degree. So imagine busting your a$$ for the past two years, completing all the requirements for your Masters (plus extra classes), and watching your classmates who took less classes graduate and become certified and employed and you can't. Let's not even get into how MDs are beginning to police the "Doctor" title (see Reddit), and most large institutions do not allow NPs to refer to themselves as "Dr" because "iT cOnFuSeS thE PaTiEnT." The only thing I look forward to is the ability to teach. That's it. That's all. The DNP was a waste of my mental energy and money.
Thank you! I’m in the process of deciding and thought I MUST be missing something, but nope. MSN here I come (God and my body/brain/family/loan options willing.. 🙏) And deciding on a school, wow. Appreciate you, didn’t think I’d find this great answer on RUclips 😊
Love you Liz! I have been an RN 40 years. Diploma prepared like your Mom. Loved your Mom!! I have always gotten the job I want with no BSN. I realize that is hard now but don't feel more and more degrees make better nurses. Here in Ohio there is a high drop out rate for RNs who don't realize how hard the job is and are not ready to be on a hospital floor out of school. Ask your Mom-we were pretty much prepared. I do think nursing students should realize it is a hard job. I am primarily a psych nurse and if I were a few years younger I would go for Psych NP. I am working for a home health agency that specializes in psych.You are a wonderful girl!!!
Currently I am a new BSN and I’m already looking a graduate school! This video was so helpful in the future I want to teach so I am leaning more towards BSN-DNP to get it done early!
I started a DNP program a few months ago. I should have researched the program more. I’ve completed two classes and I’ve decided to press pause and regroup. The DNP encompasses the two things I hate to do in school, research and writing😫 I was spending over 1600.00 per class and hated it. I love being an FNP but I agree that specializing may be a better option. Great video!
I loved and agreed with your comments on the direction the DNP degree went. I'm SO WITH YOU. Anyhow, I'm watching this to try and make sure I'm on the right track with my MSN degree and I loved your words. I definitely believe in using our extra hours toward clinical and specialties, or a well-rounded approach including primary care + some ED skills for those of us to have the option close by to work in both arenas. Thank you!
Totally agree with you Liz on the classes for DNP. I, too, would love to get my DNP, but I just dislike the curriculum. I do not want to pay so much money for classes I hate. I prefer more clinical based or as you said, specialize. I hope in the future they would recognize this and change the DNP classes. If that happens, I would be on board real fast to get my DNP. Currently I am an FNP student in MSN.Thank you for another great video. Hope you will have an awesome week.
I’m glad I’m not the only one with that thought process! I feel like everybody LOVES the dnp and I obviously wasn’t on that brain wave lol. Fingers crossed they change it up in the future!
Yessssss thank you! They need to change the DNP program! More specializations like in surgery or more clinical hours in other areas. I’m in school now for my Np and I wanted to get my DNP but I’m not a fan of research at all! We do enough in MSN.
I am almost done with my DNP. Actually did 960 practice hours and 120 hours on my project. However, this seems to vary from program to program. I am happy with the direction I went in.
I’m a career changer, getting started with nursing ADN to eventually get an MSN. You really helped me identify which np-specialty to go with and what the DNP degree is like. Thank you, this was very helpful
YES!!!! I have the same frustration about the DNP!!! If they made the DNP more clinical or practice based (example: pharmacology, additional family medicine training, etc) rather than classes on leadership and translational research, I’d be all about it. As it currently stands, a degree that teaches me nothing more clinically, will not increase pay, and will expand my skill set on things that I won’t use (I don’t want to do leadership and don’t have the time to translate research into practice from a systems perspective) is a waste of money and takes away from my time with my family. If they change the DNP model to a truly practice based doctorate, I’ll be right there with you in class pursuing it...even if I’m in my 50s.
Thank you so much for this video. I am preparing to enter into an entry-level MSN program and have been debating going straight into a DNP afterward, or doing the MSN to DNP programs. You've definitely provided the core information to help me with my decision. I think I'm going to stick with just the MSN for the moment. I really appreciate your super informative videos!
I’m a nursing student dually accepted into the a program at my community college and an university. So I’m technologically a bachelor level nursing student. I will be able to take my nclex after my fifth semester or third semester of straight nursing courses and will have my ADN. This is nice because I can work as a nurse while I finish my BSN.
Thank you for the video! I have been looking into this recently and the current climate of advanced practitioners in healthcare is very interesting. The shortage of both doctors and nurses (even pre-covid) is insane. I really feel that the push for NPs and PAs is to allow each doctor to stretch farther. However, by requiring more time and debt to become those things, it really loses its meaning. Less people will be willing to get the degree, and those who do will be less willing to work under a doctor (I know that varies from state to state) They are on the road to just making more doctors in different ways (MD, DO, DNP, and whatever they call a Dr. PA)
Giiiiirl, THANK YOU for this… I was literally sitting here going back and forth on MSN vs DNP and I I’ve been just loathing over an additional year of research. I thought it was patient clinical based but I was soooo wrong. MSN FNP I go!
School I just applied to only offers DNP - I decided to jump on it and see where this takes me - I work in diabetes education as a nurse - DNP addresses both my needs for research and education in the diabetes & endocrine fields - I must admit that MSN is truly tempting!
I absolutely love your ideas about DNP programs! Initially when I started my NP program I was doing acute gerontology with the hopes of doing dermatology in the future. With a lot of research, I found that there are little to no standards in place for this and learning was an “in practice” environment. This means you had to find a dermatologist that was willing and able to teach you. I decided to change my major to psych because I have a heavy background in psych but still have dermatology in the back of my mind. If more schools offered specialties, it will bring so much more to the field of nursing! Hopefully more opportunities will arise as the field develops!
Yes!!! So so frustrating. I had a friend who went into derm and practically nothing she learned in school was helpful, she had to learn her whole new skillset on the job. Seems a bit silly.
I truly think the mandate that you have to have your DNP is just a money grab for the university system. I’m in NC and the college that I was looking at for my MSN just took the requirement away for applicants to have at least a years experience as an RN for the DNP program to boost enrollment. That’s quite terrifying to me. RN experience (in my opinion) is super important as an NP. Fun fact: my grandmother became an NP a very long time ago and all it took was 10 months after her BSN! That’s equally as crazy to me haha
😬 ugh I don’t like that at all either. I am a huge advocate of having nursing experience prior to np school. I feel that the programs rely on nursing experience and couldn’t imagine doing what I’m doing without my background as a nurse. That’s wild about your grandma!
I think schools do see it as another way of holding onto grad students but like Liz said I think the extra *clinical* 300 hours to separate MSN/DNP would be so incredibly beneficial to our practice. Leave the research to those pursuing PhD, we certainly need them but I just don’t see a need for two degrees devoted to research when so many of us want to be bedside. What is more vital in this field than real experience?
I agree with you. I also think making the NP programs all DNP within a few years will cause less nurses to go on to be NPs because of the extra cost and time. Two years full time is hard enough when you have a family and are trying to work some, three years seems almost impossible. This whole thing will probably backfire over the long term.
Absolutely, I took the route of patient care vs research. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy digging into available research to strengthen care, and safety. I agree, provide specialized DNPs in the clinical realm, and provide fellow-type certifications in those specialties.
Totally agree with everything you said! I am currently in an MSN program and taking a leadership class though lol. I have small kids so I would like to enter practice as soon as possible and be a MOM! When they get older I may go back for a PhD. And I’m so sorry your teachers were mean! I absolutely have loved all my nursing school teachers from ADN-MSN. They’ve all been so supportive
I totally hear you with the littles! Go you for tackling this with them! It is no easy thing. I’m so glad you’ve had wonderful nursing teachers! That gives me hope!
You summed up my reasons for not pursuing DNP, entirely! I am practicing in my first year as FNP, and going back for PMHNP. I am also interested in EmergencyNP, and with ANCC and AANP you do not have to go back to school to earn the ENP, and I love that!
I really relate to your stance on this issue! I’m only in the first semester of an MSN and I have always wanted to continue to the DNP but like you said the benefits (beyond potentially teaching) just don’t appeal to me. Another year or so wouldn’t be insurmountable later once I’m practicing as an NP down the line, that’s what I’m hoping anyway! Thanks for sharing your opinion!
So glad you can relate! Fingers crossed they implement some changes to programs in the upcoming years and we can go back and feel good about it. Thanks for watching :)
Thanks this video is so helpful!! I just graduated with my BSN and would love to be an NP. I'm leaning more towards the MSN (for now) but I won't be going back for 2 years (I need a break) so we'll see if things change by then! Lol
Most teaching positions require a DNP. But some are MSN! Depends on the school. Are you on instagram? @patmacRN is a WONDERFUL resource for future educators!
I 100% agree with you! I am not interested in additional leadership or research education. I value what I have learned in my BSN program and what I will learn in the MSN program in these areas. However, I would like a DNP program that focuses on medicine and procedure education. Something closer to a DO education would be awesome.
LIZ!!!!! I have so many things to say. Well, firstly, I have decided I'm never going to grad school because I hate colleges with a burning firey passion, but whatever.. Anyways, I shall graduate with my BSN in May. What I DO have experience with, though, is how they force research down our throats (which, yes, great, it's important to know and they expect most of us to move on after undergrad... but my school has scared me far far FAR away from that). Anyways, so we have many classes heavily based in research, which is great, like fine I guess, but my beef is how crappy our NCLEX rates are at my specific university and I just constantly feel like we are asphyxiated on the wrong things. And when I say research based classes like I don't just mean okay EBP for ulcers, I mean like full on I wrote a 40 page research paper last semester. And, I for sure know my school can't be the only one. I also do agree with your point though of "I already know how to research".. Because thats how I feel. We've been doing it literally every single year even before the actual nursing program and we have HAD to hoan in our skills at this point to survive the program. Like we can CHILL on the research and do something productive like.. idk.. patient care? You totally may not agree with me because obviously being where you are you have a strong respect for research and the power it holds, but F! I JUST CAN'T. Anyways. Ok. Sorry this is an awful and disorganized rant. Moving on. This semester (my 3rd of 4) they took us completely out of the hospital and plopped us in the community. I know that this is a new standard for BSN nurses especially, so, I get it, but I am like really annoyed???? Like I learn everything I know about nursing by being on the floor and like yes public health could be great for some people but like..................????????? And I do think that public health is extremely important and necessary but like ... no? Am I wrong for being annoyed with that? Sorry that's probably an awful thing to say lol, but on top of our clinical hours being predominated by pop. health, we also have AN ENTIRE LECTURE ON IT. ! I just?????? Why am I so angry? Should I not be angry? Should I be happy? I'll never know. Also, I will say that my population health clinical is a disaster and we literally make power points and google docs all day meanwhile never accomplishing anything and it drives me NUTS because the whole reason I went into nursing was to NOT be a 9 to 5er doing that type of work. Okay so really here my point is that I'm def not in grad school, but like I get so angry with the way colleges go about things too? I think they do miss the mark when they change accreditation criteria like that. Like completely miss the point. And I mean, especially even with ADN vs BSN? Like literally every ADN I know in school right now is better prepared than I am.. and its because they have the clinical hours behind them! Like some days I KICK myself for not just going to a tech school. Ugh. Okay this was discombobulated and probs made no sense but I guess my point is I totally hear what you're saying and can relate in some ways even though I'm not in grad school and refuse to go. But also very sorry if anything in my rant offends anyone or yourself because thats not my intent. I have a lot of respect for those who do research or public health but that is NOT MY JAMMM. Okay sorry, I'm done now! Lol
Love that I'm not the only one who needed a good rant! I totally feel you in that I many times find ADN students more prepared than BSN because BSN's tend to focus WAY too much on fluff and not the hard core nursing applicable content. I think nursing in general is really really heading down a dangerous slope with how much they are focusing on theory and not actual nursing skills like you said. Grad school is the same. I feel that many times nursing school has lost grip on reality and what would be useful. If you can't tell, I'm equally passionate about that and will probably film a ranting video on the state of nursing school at some point because.. i just can't. Ugh. Ok. I'm done too.
@@NurseLiz Lmao I'm so glad you feel the same like omg. I can't. Some of my peers don't even agree so it makes me feel so much better that you can HEAR me! I'd be so interested for that video because I'm sure especially being in practice you have witnessed so much and can attest to how our education can fail us. But yeah.. They truly are on such a slippery slope right now. Theory is great.. But theory is NOT what consistently happens, thats why its THEORY... CURSE YOU NURSING SCHOOOL! Lol. Okay I digress.. again. Maybe. But seriously so glad you understand! I was so worried that you would disagree, but was curious to see your viewpoint regardless! Lol :)
Does this school start with a U and ends with an M? 😂😂 sorry just being nosey. I agree with all u said, I feel like there's so many unnecessary things in NURS school. Teach me the skills and throw in fee theory, then we are good. Things need to change
I am not in school yet for NP but, currently researching. I totally agree with you! I would love if the MSN route or DNP route programs offered hours focused on specialty of interest (Like cardiovascular) . I know for sure I don’t want Peds, family, woman’s health etc… such a shame.
Whoa! This video, especially the questions at the end. I hv a oncology interview 2mrrw as a new grade, w/ 20 years Medical Assistant, but i will stay this is the first im anxious but excited. T.y
Thank you so much for posting this! I am currently finishing my RN to BSN program and I am looking at different NP programs (still trying to pick a specialty) and this was so helpful. I agree with you, I am also not interested in doing more research so I don't think I will get a DNP. However, I would consider a DNP if there was more hands on clinical hours included in the program.
Great Video 💕...They have to redo the DNP program like you said emergency medicine would be wonderful to offer for DNP program or a specialty focus DNP program that would be a deal breaker for a lot of people
I’m considering DNP because I want to be able to not only provide high quality nursing care, but I’m very interested in someday making alternative medicine more acceptable - mainly to do the research if one way is more effective than the other. I hope to do a lot of research so that health insurances will cover these alternative medicine also.
great video, I agree with you more clinical hours, specialty focused, content for your practice, that absolutely makes so much more sense and would benefit more nurses. Maybe have 2 different options one that steers toward more research and the other option as you stated that would of even been more beneficial of course depending on the different programs out there. always good to research them to see what is entailed.
KierstinGehres the DNP (as per my personal research) is also to prepare nurses for academia-professors, clinical instructors for NPs and research. I feel like it’s gonna lean more towards DNP in the future just like RN diploma programs are phasing out and more places want RNs to be bachelors prepared
KierstinGehres it makes no sense to me. Each state votes on what they think should be allowed in the nursing practice acts that determine scope of practice. Making each state different 🤦🏻♀️
Lol us as paramedics are going through both now as well. Each state has a VERY different scope of practice for us. As well there's a push to make a degree required so we are more professional health care providers
Your glasses are so pretty, just thought you should know. ❤😅 Wondering if there will ever be a DNP in emergency medicine? That would be a no brainer for me! Or at least help with the decision. 😊
Not to mention the cost of an MSN program vs. DNP. My MSN will cost 40k AND I can work part time during it, compared to the DNP programs in my area were 90-100k and specifically say you may not work during the program as most of them were accelerated DNP programs (full time, 3 years including summer). My MSN program is also 3 years, but at the end of the day I can't afford 100k for school and refuse to take out more loans.
That is so true! Also that’s crazy they said you shouldn’t work in a dnp program. When interviewing for np jobs that was a huge thing employers wanted to see was that I HAD been working
I completely agree with you that it is very frustrating that the DNP moved towards basically being a secret PhD when the idea was to have it be a practice based degree. My only concern is that it seems to me that areas with a lot of DNP graduates they are overshadowing the MSN graduates. Where I live there are two major universities that have DNP only programs and there are a lot of graduates every year. The MSN graduates that I’ve worked with have said that they are having a hard time getting jobs because there are so many DNPs available in this market. On the flip side though, some experienced MSNs have said they have no problem and don’t feel pressured to go back to school. It really is confusing on what the best path is right now, but I’m with you, I think mostNPs are practicing so they can work in the clinical setting not research.
Ugh that is super frustrating. Things are definitely moving in the DNP direction. The school I went to just moved to DNP only as well. I just wish they did something more useful with it.
Perfectly put on DNP vs. MSN on the extra clinical hours and how it would be SO much more beneficial to put those hours into a specialty or MORE clinical hours! I am a nurse educator... with my MSN, applying to a post graduate MSN FNP program this fall :) This is exactly why I am choosing the MSN program... with hopes to work in a BMT clinic- also work as an infusion nurse and find this SO interesting ... and continue to teach. Thank you for your videos! I find them inspiring and helpful... I will continue to watch as I trudge along in MORE schooling with little kids....
The biggest reason I haven't taken the plunge is the liability. Everyone is so "sue happy" these days & just can't get pass that. Any suggestions on getting past it?? Did this ever cross your mind while choosing a school or while in school?? Thank you in advance!
It definitely crossed my mind! Because you are so right, people are lawsuit happy. Malpractice insurance is there for that fortunately! And making sure you can defend the choices you make by. This is why working in an office with a good support system is huge, because you can run things by other providers if you need a second opinion!
I remember when I started nursing school I thought ' I'm going to do the BSN program because it's the "highest" degree that I can have to practice at the bedside'.. Now when thinking of going back for my MSN, the same holds true.. ' I may as well do the DNP, since its the highest degree to have as a NP"..I REALLY just don't want the research component and I agree it's not a good use of clinical hours.. especially since I still very much want to work with people firsthand with their care. This actually has halted my decision to go back to school right now, but talking about it now is reignting the flame. There are still many programs that offer the MSN..thankfully.. and it seems mostly they are online. Liz, was your program mostly online? Did you like the way the program was structured? I think I would do better going to an actual classroom, but I could be partial since my undergrad was mostly in classroom ☺
I'm totally get your internal struggle with DNP, since that was my thinking as well when going for my BSN. The program I attended was a hybrid program. So we were on campus once a month for skills lab, lecture, and group discussion. I really liked how that was set up because I felt I was able to learn with the benefits of in person education, but had some more freedom for every day lecture during the online component.
I've been on the PhD struggle bus for a while now, just to realise my true passion is nursing-so now I am applying to a ABSN program (hopefully I hear back this week) and trying to finish the last pages of my dissertation (so I guess I'll be RN, PhD in humanities one day lolol) I can fully understand going for the masters over the doctorate!! (Also research suuuucks)
I still despise research lol. @@NurseLiz my dissertation is on migration literature (specifically migrant authors in Germany)...not sure how helpful it will be in the field of nursing hehe
"That's what you want to waste all those hours on?!" got a chuckle out of me. What DNP programs have you found that offer additional specialization? I would have loved that. I did my DNP because I think I want to teach someday but mostly because MSN programs have been phased out. Oddly enough we do have strong RN diploma programs though. I think you've started to open the can of worms that is nursing education. Might as well go for the whole video now ;)
MSN FNP prepared here. I started a DNP program and quit, absolutely hated it. Nursing in general is a mess on the didactic level above the basic degree, if anyone doubts it recall nursing theory and theorists.... The academics took this so called practice degree and ruined it with their bias toward research to maintain their elitism. Having said this....they are till early in the process as far as specialization, it started with the RN to DNP FNP, I see this happening for the other specialties, but it stalled due to the poor program process. Most people agree a DNP is unnecessary unless you want to get into academics. Unfortunately.
American qualifications are so bizarre to me. In Canada, its so simple: a college diploma (2 years) is a practical nurse, a university degree (4 years) is a registered nurse, a masters degree (6 years) is a nurse practioner, and then a PhD degree (10 years) is for policy and leadership. What is this crazy mess about ADN, BSN, MSN, DNP 😂
I agree completely! Thanks for clearing it up. I'm currently in NP school and was torn between DNP and PhD. I don't think it makes sense to have both degrees focused on research. It would be cool to have a DNP With family medicine concentration, or women's health specialty, psych DNP, etc. Question?? If u are in FNP school, how can I go from that to psych NP? Thanks, Raquel
I got my RN license after I graduated ADN. Got hired before taking the board. Then, went back to BSN. Compared to my friend who started nursing journeys the same year, she got accepted to a BSN program. I graduated before she did 1.5 years and I made $$ before she did. My friend failed the board exam even she had BSN prepared. So, I don’t think more education will prepare you for the board exam better. It’s all about your critical thinking.
I'm watching this in 2020 and have noticed a few things about education that have happened in my area (Kansas City). When I was in nursing school in 2016-2018 I looked at FNP programs in my area. A lot of schools had gotten rid of the MSN-FNP option. Within the last year a few schools have re-opened or completely established a new MSN-FNP program (University of Saint Mary's just started a new MSN-FNP in 2019). It is interesting that most schools got rid of MSN-FNP options but are now bringing them back? I wonder why that is? I Just started FNP school and chose to go to MSN route for the same reasons as you, Liz. I don't want to do research, just need to know how to read research and apply it in my practice, which I am already finding we are doing in my program in all three classes and I'm specifically in a research class now. I'll take a stats class and another research class before I graduate, which seems to be plenty for me to understand research! I don't want to spend 4-5 years in a program... I like my little 2 year, year-round program, especially as a working professional (RN). There are bridge programs to DNP that if I choose to do later will ultimately end up being the same amount of time (4-5 years between MSN and the added DNP requirements), BUT I can work as an FNP (with my MSN) during that time I'm bridging. I think I'd only go that route if it became required to have DNP. Thanks so much for your channel! I've been watching it since nursing pre-reqs back in 2015/2016! Absolutely love all of your content!
So I’m the Army, I’m a combat medical specialist... my scope of practice in the military is rather big... I mean it’s basically what the doctor I work under allows me to do. I have mostly worked in urgent cares and ERs and a few months in dermatology. I did a lot of combat medicine training to include live tissue...but never saw combat.... I’ve been in charge of our vaccine clinic and urgent care on deployment... ive had a lot of experience (5 years) and it just depresses me to think it doesn’t transition to civilian side... I’m currently transitioning out... I don’t have my RN, my first platoon was a nursing platoon but I was one of the only medics. I did all the same stuff... and even taught trauma(combat and non combat)/ sutures/ minor surgeries to the skin, ect... to the LPNs I worked with. Do you think that some hospitals/ practices would consider that experience they are looking for?
hi! are you planning on getting your RN license? If so, some hospitals and clinics will take that into account as past experience for sure. Others may not. Especially if they are union based. Which is stupid because obviously you have so much experience.
I'm in an ABSN program right now and the instructors some instructors are really nice, but others are so unreasonably mean. As a 40 year old going through the program, I find it to be so ridiculous. But, just like you, I think I have aspirations to teach so I can change the trend. I honestly think that the students are treated in nursing school has a lot to do with that whole idea that "nurses eat their young."
Totally agree. That whole bullying attitude is often first portrayed by faculty. Which is insanity. So glad you want to get out there and help change that culture!
![So You Want to Be a NURSE PRACTITIONER [Ep. 25]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XpgRBz8mJvs/mqdefault.jpg)
As a Husband/Father on the outside looking in. My wife is BSN. She began nursing later than most. Graduated ASN @ 50, Now a BSN. Currently enrolled in a MSN program. My daughter, ASN for 2 years. ASN is a favorable way to begin the career. A lot less cost. As well as ability to begin earning earlier with out a massive student load obligation. Also, with many available options to advance education. Just the perspective of a proud husband and father.
Thank you for the perspective!!
Thank you for sharing. It gives me hope as a later age starter as well 😁
you sound like a proud dad and husband! so awesome
I am a BSN prepared RN who started out with an ADN and I agree with what you said. Although the BSN is great and I can already see the benefits to practice or at least career of having it, not everyone can afford the BSN right off the bat.
The RN to BSN route was the best one for me. Now that I'm accepted into my college's graduate nursing program ..I'm kind of feeling like MSN vs DNP is a similar debate to be had. I dont want to feel or be functionally inferior to other NPs
Nonetheless, due to time and money constraints..I think MSN will be the way I'll go for now.
I took baby steps as well (cna-lpn-rn-bsn). It was the best decision I made and I learned so much while earning good money at the same time!
Wow you would be an amazing teacher. You speak so well and great with reassuring.
Thank you so much for the encouragement!
I am currently a BSN to DNP student and I chose that because I’d really love to teach at the university level in the future. I LOVE nursing and I want to be able to say that I am an expert in my field.
I am with you on the teaching thing! It will probably be what has me go back, and I think thats AWESOME that you will be able to back up our expertise with that DNP!
What school r u in? im looking for an online one?
SarahRN I go to Michigan State University :)
Kylee McKay that’s a great goal! I am interested in it too. I am gifted at teaching, but it doesn’t seem to pay near enough opposed to NP and others. What have u been able to find out?
How is it going? Isn' it too hard? Actually I am also thinking going to DNP program of graduate school but want to hear the actual atmosphere and environment or something.
This makes ABSOLUTE total sense, your thought process is the same as mine. A DNP should have more hours to specialize and practice your specialty instead of researching and leading or teaching just like a Doctor goes to school for several years to practice instead of research!
🙌🏻 preach! Even though technically the research is in your clinical practice... there is still time spent on the research. Bleh haha
totally agree!
Time for a survey! Then show it to the certifying boards. I’m like you, ok with a MSN because I’m not going into research.
I currently have my ADN working my first inpatient nursing job. I went to community college and paid it all out of pocket. I signed a contract in my hospital to get my BSN within 5 years, and my hospital offers to partially pay tuition. Retrospectively, this was probably the best route because I saved so much money!!!
thats awesome!
Wow what state are you in i would love to take this same route lbvs
Wow that’s great for you! Now I want to find out if any institutions in my area offer something similar!
Agree. I did my ASN. There is NO need to obtain a BSN as the only difference is theory-based. If a hospital/facility wants it, they can pay for you to continue the classes. If you want to pursue a Practitioner license, you can more actively pursue it.
I'm a semester away from graduating with my MHA and I've always wanted to be a nurse. I told myself I wasn't smart enough, but then I realized I don't have to be the smartest I just have to put in the work. So. I'm going to apply to the nursing program.
I hope you get accepted girl!
Me too!! I’m debating between PA and NP but I’m leaving towards nursing even though I’m a senior in college 😞 I feel like I wasted my time
@@KCM1 with the np. You can take it in stages well you have to... but here is the greatest you can be a ADN first then get your BSN then MSN which will get you the NP. Eventually though I believe all NPs will need DNP... doctorate....
You are just sunshine! You are an amazing mentor always presenting the benefits of the nursing model for people with a soul
This was soooo helpful!! Thank you!!
I am a current nursing student (graduating in 2020) and am feeling a big pull to be an NP. I don’t want a DNP because I despise research (and those research clinical hours sound unbearable)! You helped me weigh my options better! Thank you!!
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Liz! Thank you for an awesome video! Just wanted to share my experience as a current BSN to DNP student. Not all DNP programs are the same of course, but the research component is still clinically based on patient care. The research part in my specific program is actually based on my actual clinical site so I do see my patients and provide care while also addressing any clinical concerns or needs I observe at my site, through like you mentioned a “research” project. All my hours both research and clinical are with direct patient care, they are not split between seeing patients and sitting at a desk doing research because my project depends on my patients. For example, if I notice most of my patients are not seeing improvements in BP management due to language barriers I would look at what evidence based literature says can help address that issue and implement it within that population. Yes I still have a final paper/project and presentation but I feel like what your describing as far as the research aspect is more so PhD programs not the DNP. So from my experience nurses shouldn’t shy away from the DNP based on having to do research, as a DNP prepared NP you are implementing research in your practice not conducting an actual research study. I think everyone should definitely look into the programs available before “hopping” on any trains as well lol and find the ones that are best suited for their goals. Hopes this provides some insight to you all 😊
Thanks for your input! I totally hear you on the clinical hours being mixed with research, and it sounds like you are getting a ton out of it! I just wish it was less research focused (could be accomplished other ways in my opinion) and more in clinical only. But I love hearing that you have had a good experience with it!! Hopefully others do as well!
Nurse Liz Absolutely 😊
Hey Tia! Yaaasss I was thinking the same thing! As I am doing research on different DNP schools I see that there are two different ones. A practicing DNP and then a PhD in NP.
May I ask what school you are attending?
@Tia Cimeus
I hope that you do well in your program by the way!! I’m really trying to seek advice and guidance would love your input and any tips from you!
I agree. What's shes describing sounds more like a PhD philosophical degree. From my understanding, the DNP is more of a CLINICAL practice degree. Using research to improve clinical practice
At least for the ADN vs BSN, I read that lots of hospitals just want more BSNs because it increases their "magnet status" (just makes their ranking higher, for some reason). I think lots of people, including the ANCC, think that more education = a better professional, which isn't always true. Here in Hawaii, even with a BSN, most hospitals won't hire a new nurse grad unless they've had months to years of prior hospital/patient care experience (i.e CNA or some kind of technician). It's craziness out there and it's probably contributing to our national shortage of nurses!!!
completely agree! I think ANCC has completely focused on the wrong thing like you said, believing that more theory will produce better nurses. Other medical disciplines don't operate on that idea AT ALL and they do quite well. nursing could definitely take a hint! And thats wild about Hawaii. I didn't know it was like that out there. Yikes!
You have a point. I know many old-school LVNs/LPNs who are far more clinically competent, based on experience. This is mostly anecdotal, though. The actual data derived from experimental studies on the topic consistently shows that more formal nurisng education translates to better patient outcomes. The evidence is clear. This is why magnate hospitals now have in-house residencies for new BSNs.
This MSN Vs. DNP debate reminds me of the ADN Vs. BSN Controversy 😂😂
YES. YOU ARE RIIGGHHTTT
@@ForeverrCheer 😂😂😂
@Khris Khaid you are SO SO right. its basically the exact same thing
Khris Khaid 😂😂😂😂
Both will never happen
Hey Liz! You made alot of valid points. I'm just completed my first semester in a BSN-DNP program. I'm attaining my DNP because I know having that as an option I would want to get it, so I'm going straight for it! I don't want to go back to school once I'm done. My program is 3yrs full time. Excited about the future!
Totally hear you on wanting to get it all done at once! And you will have a doctorate! How cool! Congrats on one semester down! 🙌🏻
Aisha I feel the same way. Congratulations. What school are you attending? Please share any info if possible. TIA
Love this video. With the shortage of providers in this country it is amazing how the thought even exist to create more hurdles for aspiring providers. I agree that DNP programs should be geared towards advancing the clinical practice for NP's. I feel that this is coming up and we will soon see these programs!
Fingers crossed!
you would be an amazing teacher!!!!
You are very kind! Thank you!
Agreed!
I'm currently getting my Doctorate and god I wish I hadn't. I started as a BSN-MS/FNP student and transferred to the Doctoral program one year into the Masters program. REGRET isn't even the word to describe what I feel right now. I am burned out while spending THOUSANDS of dollars out of pocket for this for essentially no reason. I watched my classmates graduate in May while they withheld my Masters degree (if I knew they weren't going to give me my Masters I would not have transferred). So while I am able to take the ANCC/AANP board certification (so they say) I would not be certified as an FNP until 12/2023 when I receive my DNP degree. So imagine busting your a$$ for the past two years, completing all the requirements for your Masters (plus extra classes), and watching your classmates who took less classes graduate and become certified and employed and you can't. Let's not even get into how MDs are beginning to police the "Doctor" title (see Reddit), and most large institutions do not allow NPs to refer to themselves as "Dr" because "iT cOnFuSeS thE PaTiEnT." The only thing I look forward to is the ability to teach. That's it. That's all. The DNP was a waste of my mental energy and money.
i thot the doctorate path was just to further ur education as a NP
Thank you! I’m in the process of deciding and thought I MUST be missing something, but nope. MSN here I come (God and my body/brain/family/loan options willing.. 🙏) And deciding on a school, wow.
Appreciate you, didn’t think I’d find this great answer on RUclips 😊
I chose a DNP program because I want to be able to work at the collegiate level and open my own practice
Excellent reasons! Good luck with everything!
As a Np you could open your own practice without a Dnp.
@@tremason1531 not in all states. And some have minimum practice hours before you can practice independently.
@@quicheshelton953can you mention the states that require it?
Love you Liz! I have been an RN 40 years. Diploma prepared like your Mom. Loved your Mom!! I have always gotten the job I want with no BSN. I realize that is hard now but don't feel more and more degrees make better nurses. Here in Ohio there is a high drop out rate for RNs who don't realize how hard the job is and are not ready to be on a hospital floor out of school. Ask your Mom-we were pretty much prepared. I do think nursing students should realize it is a hard job. I am primarily a psych nurse and if I were a few years younger I would go for Psych NP. I am working for a home health agency that specializes in psych.You are a wonderful girl!!!
What awesome experience you provide for those areas!!
Currently I am a new BSN and I’m already looking a graduate school! This video was so helpful in the future I want to teach so I am leaning more towards BSN-DNP to get it done early!
Oh for sure if you want to teach might as well get that out of the way!
I started a DNP program a few months ago. I should have researched the program more. I’ve completed two classes and I’ve decided to press pause and regroup. The DNP encompasses the two things I hate to do in school, research and writing😫 I was spending over 1600.00 per class and hated it. I love being an FNP but I agree that specializing may be a better option. Great video!
I loved and agreed with your comments on the direction the DNP degree went. I'm SO WITH YOU. Anyhow, I'm watching this to try and make sure I'm on the right track with my MSN degree and I loved your words. I definitely believe in using our extra hours toward clinical and specialties, or a well-rounded approach including primary care + some ED skills for those of us to have the option close by to work in both arenas. Thank you!
Hopefully one day it will move toward that!
Totally agree with you Liz on the classes for DNP. I, too, would love to get my DNP, but I just dislike the curriculum. I do not want to pay so much money for classes I hate. I prefer more clinical based or as you said, specialize. I hope in the future they would recognize this and change the DNP classes. If that happens, I would be on board real fast to get my DNP. Currently I am an FNP student in MSN.Thank you for another great video. Hope you will have an awesome week.
I’m glad I’m not the only one with that thought process! I feel like everybody LOVES the dnp and I obviously wasn’t on that brain wave lol. Fingers crossed they change it up in the future!
i love the way you speak! you will be an amazing teacher :)
Yessssss thank you! They need to change the DNP program! More specializations like in surgery or more clinical hours in other areas. I’m in school now for my Np and I wanted to get my DNP but I’m not a fan of research at all! We do enough in MSN.
I am almost done with my DNP. Actually did 960 practice hours and 120 hours on my project. However, this seems to vary from program to program. I am happy with the direction I went in.
That’s awesome! What program is it?
It is the DNP program at Nebraska Methodist College in Omaha, NE. It was good to see that someone talked to this subject.
Oh sweet! Love the extra clinical hours 🙌🏻
I’m a career changer, getting started with nursing ADN to eventually get an MSN. You really helped me identify which np-specialty to go with and what the DNP degree is like. Thank you, this was very helpful
YES!!!! I have the same frustration about the DNP!!! If they made the DNP more clinical or practice based (example: pharmacology, additional family medicine training, etc) rather than classes on leadership and translational research, I’d be all about it. As it currently stands, a degree that teaches me nothing more clinically, will not increase pay, and will expand my skill set on things that I won’t use (I don’t want to do leadership and don’t have the time to translate research into practice from a systems perspective) is a waste of money and takes away from my time with my family. If they change the DNP model to a truly practice based doctorate, I’ll be right there with you in class pursuing it...even if I’m in my 50s.
I couldn’t have written that better myself! That EXACTLY Sums it up
Thank you so much for this video. I am preparing to enter into an entry-level MSN program and have been debating going straight into a DNP afterward, or doing the MSN to DNP programs. You've definitely provided the core information to help me with my decision. I think I'm going to stick with just the MSN for the moment. I really appreciate your super informative videos!
Thank you for clearing this up!!!! I was so frustrated with all the different names and degrees. Much appreciated 🙏
I’m a nursing student dually accepted into the a program at my community college and an university. So I’m technologically a bachelor level nursing student. I will be able to take my nclex after my fifth semester or third semester of straight nursing courses and will have my ADN. This is nice because I can work as a nurse while I finish my BSN.
That’s awesome!’ I love programs like that!
The way Liz words everything! Cracks me up. I love it!!! She’s so right.😂😂
I wish there was an option for DNP in actual practice not research. Finishing my FNP next month. Thanks for the talks!
Same! I would be all over that. And early congrats!! That’s so exciting!
Thank you for the video! I have been looking into this recently and the current climate of advanced practitioners in healthcare is very interesting. The shortage of both doctors and nurses (even pre-covid) is insane. I really feel that the push for NPs and PAs is to allow each doctor to stretch farther. However, by requiring more time and debt to become those things, it really loses its meaning. Less people will be willing to get the degree, and those who do will be less willing to work under a doctor (I know that varies from state to state) They are on the road to just making more doctors in different ways (MD, DO, DNP, and whatever they call a Dr. PA)
Giiiiirl, THANK YOU for this… I was literally sitting here going back and forth on MSN vs DNP and I I’ve been just loathing over an additional year of research. I thought it was patient clinical based but I was soooo wrong. MSN FNP I go!
This video is so helpful!!! I am barely going into my nursing program but I've been looking at NP for a while. Cleared a lot of things up. Thank you!
I’m so glad! Never too early to look ahead! I’m sure most programs will be dnp in a few years, hopefully with a few tweaks!
@@NurseLiz The one I am looking at now is. The research part bothers me but if that gets me to the end goal that's okay I'll just have to push through
School I just applied to only offers DNP - I decided to jump on it and see where this takes me - I work in diabetes education as a nurse - DNP addresses both my needs for research and education in the diabetes & endocrine fields - I must admit that MSN is truly tempting!
It'll be awesome to have your terminal degree though! And you'll be such an amazing resource as a diabetes educator
I absolutely love your ideas about DNP programs! Initially when I started my NP program I was doing acute gerontology with the hopes of doing dermatology in the future. With a lot of research, I found that there are little to no standards in place for this and learning was an “in practice” environment. This means you had to find a dermatologist that was willing and able to teach you. I decided to change my major to psych because I have a heavy background in psych but still have dermatology in the back of my mind. If more schools offered specialties, it will bring so much more to the field of nursing! Hopefully more opportunities will arise as the field develops!
Yes!!! So so frustrating. I had a friend who went into derm and practically nothing she learned in school was helpful, she had to learn her whole new skillset on the job. Seems a bit silly.
I truly think the mandate that you have to have your DNP is just a money grab for the university system. I’m in NC and the college that I was looking at for my MSN just took the requirement away for applicants to have at least a years experience as an RN for the DNP program to boost enrollment. That’s quite terrifying to me. RN experience (in my opinion) is super important as an NP. Fun fact: my grandmother became an NP a very long time ago and all it took was 10 months after her BSN! That’s equally as crazy to me haha
😬 ugh I don’t like that at all either. I am a huge advocate of having nursing experience prior to np school. I feel that the programs rely on nursing experience and couldn’t imagine doing what I’m doing without my background as a nurse. That’s wild about your grandma!
I think schools do see it as another way of holding onto grad students but like Liz said I think the extra *clinical* 300 hours to separate MSN/DNP would be so incredibly beneficial to our practice. Leave the research to those pursuing PhD, we certainly need them but I just don’t see a need for two degrees devoted to research when so many of us want to be bedside. What is more vital in this field than real experience?
@@ericafarnick5687 preach!!
Anna Blake I totally agree with this!
Erica Farnick Agreed! Leave the research to those who actually want to do it.
This is helpful. I was pursuing DNP and now I’m applying for MSN 👍🏽
I agree with you. I also think making the NP programs all DNP within a few years will cause less nurses to go on to be NPs because of the extra cost and time. Two years full time is hard enough when you have a family and are trying to work some, three years seems almost impossible. This whole thing will probably backfire over the long term.
It will certainly be interesting to see what happens, but hopefully it's for the better! We'll just have to see.
Liz! Another fabulous, informed, analytic video from you! Thanks! :)
Aww thank you!! I appreciate your support as always!
Absolutely, I took the route of patient care vs research. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy digging into available research to strengthen care, and safety. I agree, provide specialized DNPs in the clinical realm, and provide fellow-type certifications in those specialties.
Starting with MSN to get into the field but DNP is in the plan for research. I LOVE the glasses
Awesome! We need people to do research!!
Totally agree with everything you said! I am currently in an MSN program and taking a leadership class though lol. I have small kids so I would like to enter practice as soon as possible and be a MOM! When they get older I may go back for a PhD. And I’m so sorry your teachers were mean! I absolutely have loved all my nursing school teachers from ADN-MSN. They’ve all been so supportive
I totally hear you with the littles! Go you for tackling this with them! It is no easy thing. I’m so glad you’ve had wonderful nursing teachers! That gives me hope!
Lucky gal to have had great instructors throughout your program. Congratulations on your accomplishments.
You summed up my reasons for not pursuing DNP, entirely! I am practicing in my first year as FNP, and going back for PMHNP. I am also interested in EmergencyNP, and with ANCC and AANP you do not have to go back to school to earn the ENP, and I love that!
That’s awesome! I didn’t realize you didn’t have to go back for enp
Love your honesty!!!
Wow! Very informative. Thanks for summing it up in a nutshell.
Glad it was helpful!
I really relate to your stance on this issue! I’m only in the first semester of an MSN and I have always wanted to continue to the DNP but like you said the benefits (beyond potentially teaching) just don’t appeal to me. Another year or so wouldn’t be insurmountable later once I’m practicing as an NP down the line, that’s what I’m hoping anyway! Thanks for sharing your opinion!
So glad you can relate! Fingers crossed they implement some changes to programs in the upcoming years and we can go back and feel good about it. Thanks for watching :)
Thanks this video is so helpful!! I just graduated with my BSN and would love to be an NP. I'm leaning more towards the MSN (for now) but I won't be going back for 2 years (I need a break) so we'll see if things change by then! Lol
A break is definitely good for your sanity! And you’ll get tons of experience 👌🏻. Congrats on graduating!!
Hi Nurse Liz! I'm a BSN graduate and doing my research about Nursing graduate degrees. I'm loving your videos. Just subscribed!
I'm looking into teaching one day, would I need my DNP then? I'm looking into masters of nursing as Nurse Educator. What's your stand on that?
Most teaching positions require a DNP. But some are MSN! Depends on the school. Are you on instagram? @patmacRN is a WONDERFUL resource for future educators!
@@NurseLiz thanks so much!
I 100% agree with you! I am not interested in additional leadership or research education. I value what I have learned in my BSN program and what I will learn in the MSN program in these areas. However, I would like a DNP program that focuses on medicine and procedure education. Something closer to a DO education would be awesome.
I love you and you're always there for me with questions I have. Thank you so much for doing what you do!!
I'm so glad they've been helpful!
I’m in lpn school right now and hope to become a pmhnp, thanks for the video!
Thanks for your insight! Keep on nursing!
LIZ!!!!! I have so many things to say. Well, firstly, I have decided I'm never going to grad school because I hate colleges with a burning firey passion, but whatever.. Anyways, I shall graduate with my BSN in May.
What I DO have experience with, though, is how they force research down our throats (which, yes, great, it's important to know and they expect most of us to move on after undergrad... but my school has scared me far far FAR away from that). Anyways, so we have many classes heavily based in research, which is great, like fine I guess, but my beef is how crappy our NCLEX rates are at my specific university and I just constantly feel like we are asphyxiated on the wrong things. And when I say research based classes like I don't just mean okay EBP for ulcers, I mean like full on I wrote a 40 page research paper last semester. And, I for sure know my school can't be the only one. I also do agree with your point though of "I already know how to research".. Because thats how I feel. We've been doing it literally every single year even before the actual nursing program and we have HAD to hoan in our skills at this point to survive the program. Like we can CHILL on the research and do something productive like.. idk.. patient care? You totally may not agree with me because obviously being where you are you have a strong respect for research and the power it holds, but F! I JUST CAN'T. Anyways. Ok. Sorry this is an awful and disorganized rant. Moving on. This semester (my 3rd of 4) they took us completely out of the hospital and plopped us in the community. I know that this is a new standard for BSN nurses especially, so, I get it, but I am like really annoyed???? Like I learn everything I know about nursing by being on the floor and like yes public health could be great for some people but like..................????????? And I do think that public health is extremely important and necessary but like ... no? Am I wrong for being annoyed with that? Sorry that's probably an awful thing to say lol, but on top of our clinical hours being predominated by pop. health, we also have AN ENTIRE LECTURE ON IT. ! I just?????? Why am I so angry? Should I not be angry? Should I be happy? I'll never know. Also, I will say that my population health clinical is a disaster and we literally make power points and google docs all day meanwhile never accomplishing anything and it drives me NUTS because the whole reason I went into nursing was to NOT be a 9 to 5er doing that type of work. Okay so really here my point is that I'm def not in grad school, but like I get so angry with the way colleges go about things too? I think they do miss the mark when they change accreditation criteria like that. Like completely miss the point. And I mean, especially even with ADN vs BSN? Like literally every ADN I know in school right now is better prepared than I am.. and its because they have the clinical hours behind them! Like some days I KICK myself for not just going to a tech school. Ugh. Okay this was discombobulated and probs made no sense but I guess my point is I totally hear what you're saying and can relate in some ways even though I'm not in grad school and refuse to go. But also very sorry if anything in my rant offends anyone or yourself because thats not my intent. I have a lot of respect for those who do research or public health but that is NOT MY JAMMM. Okay sorry, I'm done now! Lol
Love that I'm not the only one who needed a good rant! I totally feel you in that I many times find ADN students more prepared than BSN because BSN's tend to focus WAY too much on fluff and not the hard core nursing applicable content. I think nursing in general is really really heading down a dangerous slope with how much they are focusing on theory and not actual nursing skills like you said. Grad school is the same. I feel that many times nursing school has lost grip on reality and what would be useful. If you can't tell, I'm equally passionate about that and will probably film a ranting video on the state of nursing school at some point because.. i just can't. Ugh. Ok. I'm done too.
@@NurseLiz Lmao I'm so glad you feel the same like omg. I can't. Some of my peers don't even agree so it makes me feel so much better that you can HEAR me! I'd be so interested for that video because I'm sure especially being in practice you have witnessed so much and can attest to how our education can fail us. But yeah.. They truly are on such a slippery slope right now. Theory is great.. But theory is NOT what consistently happens, thats why its THEORY... CURSE YOU NURSING SCHOOOL! Lol. Okay I digress.. again. Maybe. But seriously so glad you understand! I was so worried that you would disagree, but was curious to see your viewpoint regardless! Lol :)
While it may have been a rant ;), you have a lot of good points to think about, Jenna! Thanks!
@@selfdevelopmentlab4078 Haha thank you!
Does this school start with a U and ends with an M? 😂😂 sorry just being nosey. I agree with all u said, I feel like there's so many unnecessary things in NURS school. Teach me the skills and throw in fee theory, then we are good. Things need to change
Thank you for making this video!! It was very helpful -- As a new grad RN looking to do NP, this helped me out!!
Glad it was helpful! Congrats on graduating!
I am not in school yet for NP but, currently researching. I totally agree with you! I would love if the MSN route or DNP route programs offered hours focused on specialty of interest (Like cardiovascular) . I know for sure I don’t want Peds, family, woman’s health etc… such a shame.
Thank you for the clarity and information, this was beyond helpful!
Whoa! This video, especially the questions at the end. I hv a oncology interview 2mrrw as a new grade, w/ 20 years Medical Assistant, but i will stay this is the first im anxious but excited. T.y
You're so awesome! Loved your video! Thank you soo much! You made is soo much clearer!
Your rant is very applicable lol. Thank you, you are an advocate for the profession. I love your channel!
aww thank you!
SUCH an informative video! This helped clear up so much and really gave me some milestones to work towards.
So glad it was helpful!
Omg thank you for this video!! I am on my last semester and this video answered all my questions 😍
I'm so glad!
Thank you so much ! I was looking online at a few of my options and I was sooo confused!
Hope it helped clear it up!
omg I'm so glad I came across this.
Thank you so much for posting this! I am currently finishing my RN to BSN program and I am looking at different NP programs (still trying to pick a specialty) and this was so helpful. I agree with you, I am also not interested in doing more research so I don't think I will get a DNP. However, I would consider a DNP if there was more hands on clinical hours included in the program.
glad it was helpful!
And there is the direct entry MSN program which is the program I'm starting!!!! so ADN, BSN and MSN Direct Entry! 3 options
Yep! That is a totally different beast haha
Great Video 💕...They have to redo the DNP program like you said emergency medicine would be wonderful to offer for DNP program or a specialty focus DNP program that would be a deal breaker for a lot of people
MiMi Butterfly yes!!
This helped a LOT
I'm so glad!
I’m considering DNP because I want to be able to not only provide high quality nursing care, but I’m very interested in someday making alternative medicine more acceptable - mainly to do the research if one way is more effective than the other. I hope to do a lot of research so that health insurances will cover these alternative medicine also.
That's awesome!! We need people to do research so badly!
great video, I agree with you more clinical hours, specialty focused, content for your practice, that absolutely makes so much more sense and would benefit more nurses. Maybe have 2 different options one that steers toward more research and the other option as you stated that would of even been more beneficial of course depending on the different programs out there. always good to research them to see what is entailed.
That’s so weird! How can you do different things in different states but having the same degree and level of knowledge?
KierstinGehres the DNP (as per my personal research) is also to prepare nurses for academia-professors, clinical instructors for NPs and research. I feel like it’s gonna lean more towards DNP in the future just like RN diploma programs are phasing out and more places want RNs to be bachelors prepared
KierstinGehres it makes no sense to me. Each state votes on what they think should be allowed in the nursing practice acts that determine scope of practice. Making each state different 🤦🏻♀️
t chew agreed!
Lol us as paramedics are going through both now as well. Each state has a VERY different scope of practice for us. As well there's a push to make a degree required so we are more professional health care providers
has to do with different laws in different states
Your glasses are so pretty, just thought you should know. ❤😅 Wondering if there will ever be a DNP in emergency medicine? That would be a no brainer for me! Or at least help with the decision. 😊
Thank you Liz, very helpful!
Not to mention the cost of an MSN program vs. DNP. My MSN will cost 40k AND I can work part time during it, compared to the DNP programs in my area were 90-100k and specifically say you may not work during the program as most of them were accelerated DNP programs (full time, 3 years including summer). My MSN program is also 3 years, but at the end of the day I can't afford 100k for school and refuse to take out more loans.
That is so true! Also that’s crazy they said you shouldn’t work in a dnp program. When interviewing for np jobs that was a huge thing employers wanted to see was that I HAD been working
I completely agree with you that it is very frustrating that the DNP moved towards basically being a secret PhD when the idea was to have it be a practice based degree. My only concern is that it seems to me that areas with a lot of DNP graduates they are overshadowing the MSN graduates. Where I live there are two major universities that have DNP only programs and there are a lot of graduates every year. The MSN graduates that I’ve worked with have said that they are having a hard time getting jobs because there are so many DNPs available in this market. On the flip side though, some experienced MSNs have said they have no problem and don’t feel pressured to go back to school. It really is confusing on what the best path is right now, but I’m with you, I think mostNPs are practicing so they can work in the clinical setting not research.
Ugh that is super frustrating. Things are definitely moving in the DNP direction. The school I went to just moved to DNP only as well. I just wish they did something more useful with it.
Perfectly put on DNP vs. MSN on the extra clinical hours and how it would be SO much more beneficial to put those hours into a specialty or MORE clinical hours! I am a nurse educator... with my MSN, applying to a post graduate MSN FNP program this fall :) This is exactly why I am choosing the MSN program... with hopes to work in a BMT clinic- also work as an infusion nurse and find this SO interesting ... and continue to teach. Thank you for your videos! I find them inspiring and helpful... I will continue to watch as I trudge along in MORE schooling with little kids....
This was so helpful! Thank you for all of your insight!
I’m so glad it was helpful!
The biggest reason I haven't taken the plunge is the liability. Everyone is so "sue happy" these days & just can't get pass that. Any suggestions on getting past it?? Did this ever cross your mind while choosing a school or while in school?? Thank you in advance!
It definitely crossed my mind! Because you are so right, people are lawsuit happy. Malpractice insurance is there for that fortunately! And making sure you can defend the choices you make by. This is why working in an office with a good support system is huge, because you can run things by other providers if you need a second opinion!
Literally just finished my research paper I hate them too😂
I remember when I started nursing school I thought ' I'm going to do the BSN program because it's the "highest" degree that I can have to practice at the bedside'.. Now when thinking of going back for my MSN, the same holds true.. ' I may as well do the DNP, since its the highest degree to have as a NP"..I REALLY just don't want the research component and I agree it's not a good use of clinical hours.. especially since I still very much want to work with people firsthand with their care. This actually has halted my decision to go back to school right now, but talking about it now is reignting the flame. There are still many programs that offer the MSN..thankfully.. and it seems mostly they are online. Liz, was your program mostly online? Did you like the way the program was structured? I think I would do better going to an actual classroom, but I could be partial since my undergrad was mostly in classroom ☺
I'm totally get your internal struggle with DNP, since that was my thinking as well when going for my BSN. The program I attended was a hybrid program. So we were on campus once a month for skills lab, lecture, and group discussion. I really liked how that was set up because I felt I was able to learn with the benefits of in person education, but had some more freedom for every day lecture during the online component.
I've been on the PhD struggle bus for a while now, just to realise my true passion is nursing-so now I am applying to a ABSN program (hopefully I hear back this week) and trying to finish the last pages of my dissertation (so I guess I'll be RN, PhD in humanities one day lolol) I can fully understand going for the masters over the doctorate!! (Also research suuuucks)
Oh my..well.. you will be a MASTER of research when it comes to that. What is your dissertation on??
I still despise research lol. @@NurseLiz my dissertation is on migration literature (specifically migrant authors in Germany)...not sure how helpful it will be in the field of nursing hehe
dobbypire the writing part I’m sure will be helpful! And that topic is so specific I’m fascinated you can write a whole thesis on it! Go you!!
Awesome video the only problem is when they change the requirements in 2023 you might have to get your doctorate in any case.
Fingers crossed that doesn’t happen!
"That's what you want to waste all those hours on?!" got a chuckle out of me. What DNP programs have you found that offer additional specialization? I would have loved that. I did my DNP because I think I want to teach someday but mostly because MSN programs have been phased out. Oddly enough we do have strong RN diploma programs though. I think you've started to open the can of worms that is nursing education. Might as well go for the whole video now ;)
Oh I’m sure there will be a whole one 😂. I have an overwhelming amount of opinions on nursing school. Not all of them kind haha.
Same!!!@@NurseLiz
Herzing University out of Madison, WI offers specialty DNP programs. I am on the DNP-FNP track but there are several different options to choose from.
MSN FNP prepared here. I started a DNP program and quit, absolutely hated it. Nursing in general is a mess on the didactic level above the basic degree, if anyone doubts it recall nursing theory and theorists....
The academics took this so called practice degree and ruined it with their bias toward research to maintain their elitism.
Having said this....they are till early in the process as far as specialization, it started with the RN to DNP FNP, I see this happening for the other specialties, but it stalled due to the poor program process. Most people agree a DNP is unnecessary unless you want to get into academics. Unfortunately.
Agree so much about nursing being a complete mess at the higher education level. Makes me nervous for the future.
so does this means PAs will one day be required to get a doctorate?
i have no idea!
American qualifications are so bizarre to me. In Canada, its so simple: a college diploma (2 years) is a practical nurse, a university degree (4 years) is a registered nurse, a masters degree (6 years) is a nurse practioner, and then a PhD degree (10 years) is for policy and leadership.
What is this crazy mess about ADN, BSN, MSN, DNP 😂
That's the same in America
It’s all about the money.
I just saw this video and am subscribing your channel! I had my baby during my NP program as well! haha.
Welcome to the channel! Yay NP school babies! They're quite the adventure haha
Liz, this was so helpful!
I'm so glad!
This was such a helpful video! I want to be a DNP but I hate research 😒
Feel ya there!
I agree completely! Thanks for clearing it up. I'm currently in NP school and was torn between DNP and PhD. I don't think it makes sense to have both degrees focused on research. It would be cool to have a DNP With family medicine concentration, or women's health specialty, psych DNP, etc.
Question?? If u are in FNP school, how can I go from that to psych NP?
Thanks,
Raquel
A post masters psych np program!
Thank You for this video !
I got my RN license after I graduated ADN. Got hired before taking the board. Then, went back to BSN. Compared to my friend who started nursing journeys the same year, she got accepted to a BSN program. I graduated before she did 1.5 years and I made $$ before she did. My friend failed the board exam even she had BSN prepared. So, I don’t think more education will prepare you for the board exam better. It’s all about your critical thinking.
That's awesome! All about saving time and money!
I'm watching this in 2020 and have noticed a few things about education that have happened in my area (Kansas City). When I was in nursing school in 2016-2018 I looked at FNP programs in my area. A lot of schools had gotten rid of the MSN-FNP option. Within the last year a few schools have re-opened or completely established a new MSN-FNP program (University of Saint Mary's just started a new MSN-FNP in 2019). It is interesting that most schools got rid of MSN-FNP options but are now bringing them back? I wonder why that is? I Just started FNP school and chose to go to MSN route for the same reasons as you, Liz. I don't want to do research, just need to know how to read research and apply it in my practice, which I am already finding we are doing in my program in all three classes and I'm specifically in a research class now. I'll take a stats class and another research class before I graduate, which seems to be plenty for me to understand research! I don't want to spend 4-5 years in a program... I like my little 2 year, year-round program, especially as a working professional (RN). There are bridge programs to DNP that if I choose to do later will ultimately end up being the same amount of time (4-5 years between MSN and the added DNP requirements), BUT I can work as an FNP (with my MSN) during that time I'm bridging. I think I'd only go that route if it became required to have DNP.
Thanks so much for your channel! I've been watching it since nursing pre-reqs back in 2015/2016! Absolutely love all of your content!
great info.speciality is better than DNP.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video. Very helpful. Thank you!!
So I’m the Army, I’m a combat medical specialist... my scope of practice in the military is rather big... I mean it’s basically what the doctor I work under allows me to do. I have mostly worked in urgent cares and ERs and a few months in dermatology. I did a lot of combat medicine training to include live tissue...but never saw combat.... I’ve been in charge of our vaccine clinic and urgent care on deployment... ive had a lot of experience (5 years) and it just depresses me to think it doesn’t transition to civilian side... I’m currently transitioning out... I don’t have my RN, my first platoon was a nursing platoon but I was one of the only medics. I did all the same stuff... and even taught trauma(combat and non combat)/ sutures/ minor surgeries to the skin, ect... to the LPNs I worked with. Do you think that some hospitals/ practices would consider that experience they are looking for?
hi! are you planning on getting your RN license? If so, some hospitals and clinics will take that into account as past experience for sure. Others may not. Especially if they are union based. Which is stupid because obviously you have so much experience.
I'm in an ABSN program right now and the instructors some instructors are really nice, but others are so unreasonably mean. As a 40 year old going through the program, I find it to be so ridiculous. But, just like you, I think I have aspirations to teach so I can change the trend. I honestly think that the students are treated in nursing school has a lot to do with that whole idea that "nurses eat their young."
Totally agree. That whole bullying attitude is often first portrayed by faculty. Which is insanity. So glad you want to get out there and help change that culture!
In the Austin, Texas area they are telling us that they are getting away from hiring Associate degree nurses and only hiring BSN
that was the case around where I've lived as well.