The Best Espresso Machine Under £1,500
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- For more information on each of the machines:
Lelit MaraX: marax.lelit.com/index-eng.html
Rocket Appartamento: rocket-espresso.com/appartame...
Profitec 500: www.profitec-espresso.com/en/...
Rancilio Silvia Pro: www.ranciliogroup.com/rancili...
Sage/Breville Dual Boiler: www.sageappliances.com/uk/en/...
Chapter timecodes:
0:00 Intro & overview of selection
01:05 Heat exchangers & dual boilers
02:44 Review structure
03:08 AESTHETICS & DESIGN
03:10 Rocket Appartamento
06:54 Lelit MaraX
11:11 Rancilio Silvia Pro
15:11 Profitec Pro 500
18:39 Sage Dual Boiler
22:26 ESPRESSO
22:27 Rocket Appartamento
24:59 Lelit MaraX
26:48 Rancilio Silvia Pro
28:12 Profitec Pro 500
29:25 Sage Dual Boiler
31:29 THE STEAMING MILK TEST
31:54 Rocket Appartamento
32:07 Lelit MaraX
33:06 Rancilio Silvia Pro
33:26 Profitec Pro 500
33:53 Sage Dual Boiler
34:02 Summary
My video on The Best Espresso Machine Under £500:
• The Best Espresso Mach...
My video on The Best Espresso Machines Under £100:
• The Best Espresso Mach...
Links:
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Развлечения
I’ve just spent nearly 40 minutes watching reviews of 5 espresso machines that I can’t afford. And I liked it.
Same here. And I even don't drink espresso 😅
eBay is your friend. I picked up a Sage Dual Boiler (new + boxed) for half retail price
Same
@@uqi1412 The moka pot has a place in every kitchen, imo. If you don't have an espresso set up, its gets you in the neighborhood and its enough of its own thing that it's worth having even if you do.
Same.
10:32 “9 Bars on the Gauge- 8 Bars on the Group Head” is the name of James’s upcoming hip-hop album
Did you mean Jimseven?
@@venkatadinesh3495 Did you mean, Kingseven?
You could totally remix the " it's just' it's just, I feel like." at 35:28 for an intro or hook. Love it.
Well when you say it like that it sounds a bit naughty doesn't it...
First single off the album: bruteforce
Is so refreshing to have an equipment review that doesn't sound like an infomercial, thank you for giving us such an honest take on these machines James.
I drink coffee out of a $40 Mr Coffee and I’m on my 20th James Hoffman video. Balanced humor, articulate, extremely informative, entertaining. I’ll have a coffee, eggs over easy, with a Hoffman video, please.
I’ve binged his videos as well and use a drip coffee machine too😂
So who did you ask to buy you a burr grinder for Christmas? It's ok, it starts like that for all of us. You can talk about it, you're amongst friends.
I did the sane a few weeks ago. I just got a hario v60 and I have always had a blade grinder but now am looking to get a burr grinder.
You can get a sweet setup for $100 that’ll do 100x better coffee than most coffee makers. A v60 or a chemex or an aeropress, and then an oxo burr grinder (goes on sale for $60 every few months) or a baratza encore (usually found for $90 on sale) and you’ll have a basic setup that will never fail you in terms of texture and taste.
😂😂😂😂me 2
A couple of points. The first, and most important is an error on my part:
I didn’t discuss the two modes on the Lelit MaraX - its Brew Priority and Steam Priority. This was an oversight and my part and a mistake, which I regret.
It is another strong positive for that machine, especially at its price point. I still prefer the Profitec in the HX category, but if I was space constrained then the MaraX would be an excellent choice. I’d still want the pressure to be correct though.
Secondly, just for clarity again, is the discussion around pressure on a Scace device. You want the gauge to read around 8 bars (around 115psi) because the gauge is seeing both incoming pressure and the loss of pressure from water flowing out. Initially a lot of people misunderstood the gauge and were setting the machines for 9 bars on the Scace which is more like 10 bars at the pump. This is not recommended and 9 bars at pump is generally considered ideal (or lower in many cases).
UPDATE 2: I also got unnecessarily annoyed about the lid on the Silvia Pro. This was user error and has been removed from the video. I am an idiot, and embarrassed by the error!
Is it perhaps possible that these machines are being calibrated (mis)using a similar device to the Scace? Where perhaps they aren't accounting for the drop in pressure, so are overshooting on the valve? I have a Breville DB and it had the same issue of hitting 10.5 bars out of the box.
@@Shottty101 You think all these companies are doing it wrong? 10 bar at pump and 9 at group head is industry standard.
Thanks for the update on Mara X other control feature
A great video with detail on selected machines
The odd variances in steam pressure would probably be fixed if it was running in steam priority (full h/x mode)
Hi James,
Thanks for the video. Quick tip on the MaraX in brew priority mode. The machine will build boiler pressure automatically to ~1.5 bar after pulling a shot to give you good steaming performance. If the machine has been idling in brew priority mode and you want to steam milk, you can just flush the group head for a second and the steam will build back to 1.5 bar pretty quickly. It's definitely a confusing machine but it has some nice features once you get used to it. Lelit definitely did not include very good instructions to explain how this all works.
Dear James, after seeing your video, I have finally realized why the coffee from my Rocket Appartemento had so much channeling and was not tasting as I wanted/expected it to. After modding the opv I got no more channeling and my coffee tasted significantly better. Thank you so much, because of you I made one of the biggest steps forward in my coffee game!
This is interesting to know. Cheers.
It's funny because i just watched it and am going to go and retweak it tomorrow because i'm experiencing the same thing. Lets hope it helps as well.
I’d love to know how to change this! I’ve got the Appartamento too. Where did you learn how to mod it?
@@ibriggie ruclips.net/video/zReVSIf3vCU/видео.html
I have a Vibiemme Super and I never thought about pressure until I watched this video. I now understand what is going on! I am also wondering where you can buy such a testing device.
What bothers me is that 1,500 is treated by manufacturers as if it was an IKEA building set. James, you are right, at this price point you should not have to dial in anything if you don't have out of the norm preferences that the manufacturer cannot guess. At this price point you can expect perfect settings and more.
At £1500 I'd expect a factory setting off 92° C brew temp, 9 bar pump pressure and a functional PID for temp control.... why, because these features are baseline for good coffee
Absolutely, you know the more you spend on these machines the more you have to tinker with them to get them right.. I have a gaggia classic that works just fine.. also did you ever notice that the end result, no one shows what the coffee looks like in the cup. I'm sure a lot of them are flat without any crema.. that's why they never show them IMHO
This price range is tricky. Since they are still manual machines, you would be expected to operate it yourself, which means you know coffee quite a bit, which means you know a good grinder > good espresso machine. At $2000 dollars, you probably have a decent grinder already, and you are invested in coffee whether it's professional or home. Since people know coffee at this price range, it makes no sense not to go the extra miles to make sure it works to standard out of the box. So all of these little adjustment make no sense, normally.
From my experience however, pro-sumers machines at this price points are most often deployed at office. Someone in the process is a coffee enthusiast with enough influence to make the company buys a decent $2000 manual machines and a separate grinder. They are fuzzy, but not fuzzy enough to actually do something about the little problems needed to be ironed out as it is not their money at the end of the day and they don't want to touch company's property.
Amen @@skylerpolendina7517
We have had our Rancilio Silvia for almost 20 years. It has made our Lattes every morning and never had a problem. It makes a great cup of espresso or Latte with ease. I like the fact that it's built like a tank and will probably last far longer than we'll be around to use it. I appreciate equipment that's built to last rather than the iPhone approach where you have to change it out every few years the cost of 1000 dollars. The Rancilio Silvia that we have is obviously an earlier model. I believe we paid ~$500 USD for the machine in execelent condition. I purchased a PID kit from Aubern at $150 USD that eliminates the need to temperature surf the machine. It could probably also benefit from a "competition" filter basket at $50 USD. I don't mind making these mods because the machine has a very solid basis to build from. I would much rather have a Sylvia and make the mods than have another machine that had perhaps a tighter temperature bandwidth but did not hold up. My vote is for the Rancilio Sylvia as the best prosumer" espresso machine. At a total cost of ~ $700 USD. We also have a Rancilio Rocky grinder that has been just as reliable as the Sylvia and does a great job grinding. It was only $500 and is a great match for Sylvia. Most vendors offer the current Sylvia with a PID. When you add a high end filter basket to the porta-filter you end up with a world class competition machine that will last you almost forever. Simply put it's Reliable it makes a great shot it's a joy to use and it steams the crap out of milk.
Using a switch as a button is against the Geneva conventions.
@@chriscoleman2489 And they all state that a switch is a war crime.
@@alexlazaridisf.7276 πάρτε ένα Rancillio Silvia να σωθείτε. Κάνει παπάδες
I just found James on my search for a new espresso machine. I ended up watching like twenty of his videos. Kudos for being one of the most credible and useful reviewers that I've ever watched.
ECM Synchronika owner here for over a year, which effectively has the same innards as a Profitec Pro 700. Gets used every day, love it. Build quality is rock solid.
I am on my 2nd ECM machine, the first being a Giotto. Simple, built like a tank and easy to DIY repair with a screwdriver and a wrench. Needed a few parts over the 20 years that I used it. It's probably the same as the other E61 machines. BTW: Thanks for the great videos!
"I can forsee someone making a terrible mess of their kitchen counter"
Yes. Me. I have the regular Silvia and I ended up with one such mess to the point where I had to move the machine and mop everything up. It's the one thing about the Silvia I actively hate.
Yeah, Rancilio is a weird company. I don't know if they just don't do enough testing or if they lack UX person on their design teams but all of their products have weird quirks. Kind of like I'm buying a prototype. Very high-quality components, but confusing execution.
Well yes but on the regular silvia, the lip is much smaller. I can see that it still could go wrong, but usually then you're so close to the brim that it probably would go wrong anyway (at least for me).
@@slicedtoad I'd say it's because their priorities are different compared to other manufacturers. Other manufacturers place emphasis on design where Rancilio appears to prioritise the engineering and componentry. I had my Silvia V6 open recently and it's no contest; it's easilly the most beautifully engineered and well built in its price class, but the UX is clearly done by one of the engineers and not a design professional, or a design professional with many constraints placed on them. There's a weird sort of elegance in its brutalism.
@@FlorianLinscheid the lip on my V6 is around 5mm tall like the pro. If the drip tray goes even a little over halt full you're almost guaranteed a mess.
@@benanderson89 To be honest I don't know which version I have. Probably V3 or something. The lip is also 5 mm high but I'm quite sure the angle is smaller than shown in the video. Anyway I tried it and had more difficulty carrying it to the sink than pulling it out. But hey that's just me and I fully agree with your other points.
"Just stay down, be on!" 😂 That tiny rage over the rocker switch. I can feel the frustration through the screen!
That’s exactly what I often say to my wife.
@@ninovulkan9815 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@ninovulkan9815 wait what?!🤔🤨😅
Have had the Breville/Sage for six years and love it; excellent brew and easy to maintain.
Something I really quite like about the MaraX after having the Breville/Sage Dual Boiler is how much quieter it is. Even with a brass brew pump and OPV fitted instead of the default plastic parts, that thing was loud! The MaraX is super quiet.
I've had 2 Breville machines, inc the Bambino, both of them shat the bed within 18 months. They're disposable trash. Got the Silvia Pro and it's been fine for about 3 years now. He's right when he says the Breville/Sage stuff just doesn't have the longevity.
Words can't explain how much I appreciate 40 minutes of James talking about espresso machines.
Same!!! Made a coffee and started watching. Such a treat.
"Feet are not always done well. I quite like the feet."
Not beautiful but adequate feet XD
Really disappointed that feet didn’t play into final decisions.
Hoffmann feet comment super cut when
James is dangerously based
So James is that type of weirdo that likes feet?
I'm recently purchased the Breville Dual Boiler (Sage). I came here for the education and affirmation, and left feeling confident in my machine and where I sit in the world of espresso. I see myself probably upgrading in 1-2 years, but in the between time, I'm making great drinks with my machine. I'm obsessive about cleaning and flushing my machine and feel its durable enough to stand the test of time. I want to thank you for such a thorough review of the machines listed, its refreshing hearing someone that understand the intricacies of espresso talk about machines.
I really appreciate your focus on design thinking (UX/UI). Keep em coming!
"I quite like the feet." -James Hoffman, 2021
gave me some Tarantino vibes
😂
"feet are not always done well"
HE EVEN SAID IT TWICE PLS
I have a $2500 machine and... I always want to replace its feet. So yeah, good feet are a thing. lol
I love how brutally honest you are with these reviews and how you don't hold any punches back. I love coffee. Been indulging for years. Just recently purchased my 1st espresso machine which is the Breville Barista Express. I absolutely love it so far, but really do want a high end pro consumer machine at some point, however with the space and budget I'm working with at the moment the Barista Express was the best bang for buck at this time. Anyways, I appreciate all the info you give and enjoy watching your videos. Maybe someday I'll break the bank and upgrade to something you recommend. Cheers!
Hi,
I’m about to buy an espresso machine and I would love to hear what you think of your Breville Barista Express after one year. Would you recommend it?
Thanks in advance!
@@Conservator. Great machine - I accidentally killed mine a few days ago (user error on my part) after more than 4 years. Got mine for a great price too so quite sad!
@@0Mugle0
Oops, I’m sorry to hear that. Thanks for your reply.
@@Conservator. Just wanted to chime in here. My spouse and I are both former coffee industry professionals (he, a Q-Grader, and I, a former latte art trainer) and we've had a Breville Barista Express for 3 years. It's an excellent entry level home espresso machine. If you time your purchase just right with holiday sales, it sometimes is sold for as little as $500 US. However, I wouldn't buy it unless you've already worked with a proper industrial espresso machine in a cafe or restaurant setting, as a few aspects of it are rather finicky. Knowing how a professional espresso machine actually works goes a long way in getting exactly what you desire from the Breville, but that also rings true for any of the machines mentioned in this video.
@@i.liad.a Hi Ada,
Thank you very much for your reply and advice!
I’ve ended up buying a Rancilio Silvia (non pro without PID controller) and Graef grinder in one set. The Rancilio is ok but the Graef can’t produce espresso grinds consistently. Therefore I’ve bought a Compak K3 which solved that. I bought them all second hand for about €500 here in the Netherlands.
It took some (a lot tbh ;) trial and error before I managed to be able to brew reasonable to good espresso’s consistently but I’ve figured it out now. RUclips has been very helpful understanding grinding, puck prep, pressure, temperature pre-infusion etc.
I’d love to practice with latte art but I only drink espresso’s. I have foamed some milk a few times, just for fun though. Yesterday I got some cacao powder to make chocolate milk and to start practicing. The first one was a bit of a fiasco (milk was way too foamy) but hey, if it was easy, there would be no challenge! 😁
Thanks again!
Finally a honest and useful review, not trying to sell you machines. It seems most of the other reviews online all point to them being the best at whatever price point they are at.
this is by far the best review I have ever seen , of any product! Brutally honest. I am learning how to make espressos and aspire to have a good machine at home. I learnt so much!
Sage DB owner here, and I think you've hit the nail on the head here. The one thing I appreciate every morning is how how quickly it gets up to temperature once you turn it on.
Regardless of the fact that it will attract fingerprints. Can we just admire the reflection on the side of the Profitec Pro 500. It's just perfect.
Thanks James. This is one of the best channels on RUclips. Always inciteful, always fair.
It would be great to see a comparison on lever machines. I find it lubricous that so much engineering effort goes into achieving brews with constant temperature and pressure, then adding another layer of complexity to provide profiling, all in an attempt to emulate simple mechanical machines. I spent too many years chasing these features only to find that the simplest solution is the best. That's not to say that lever machines are cheap, but if you skip all the rungs on the upgrade ladder then you'll save a lot of money and be drinking your coffee at its best much sooner.
I agree on lever comparisons. For years I pulled ristretto shots on an old Arrarex Caravel (I actually have four of these, and have considered designing an induction heating system for them to replace the "stove burner" that they come with) and grew to love the kind of control you get with a manual lever, especially on a pure espresso shot. I had a couple of HX machines, but was never really all that happy with the temperature management chase on those. Ended up with a first generation Londinium L1, built by Fracino around the venerable Bosco level group, and have been nothing but happy with it.
What does he incite? Violence?
@@RiotBadger This comment is lubricous.
@@gospelofrye6881 😏
If there is a Better review channel I haven’t found it. This gentleman is amazing.
A 40min James Hoffmann video. Looks like I’m not going to bed.
Really? I just watched the whole thing and had no idea it was that long. I better get moving.
Same.... 😕
His voice is so soothing and his videos aren’t full of ads breaks. Watch it again and it’ll help you fall asleep. I did that many times before
Literally me saying this to my wife as soon as I got to bed and saw the notification
I just stopped half way and picked up again in the morning! 😉
I have my Rocket plugged into a smart plug and I have it set to 30mins before I wake up. Works great.
Thx for the video.
Woow absolutely nailed the topic. Best video on the RUclips about prosumer machines. Big thank you for this video!
lots of good reviews and comparisons on youtube and we're fortunate for that but this one really tops them all. everything i needed to know... even more than i needed to know, really, and that's just fantastic. thanks a lot
I have the Rocket Appartamento with the the flow control device and even though I have my pump pressure set at 10bar (when it arrived it was almost 11bar), I've been getting amazing espresso. This 150€ upgrade turned the RA from a clumsy box into super capable star. The Profitech 500 with FCD would be the best choice for the home barista that enjoys tinkering with the espresso process. As always, thanks for the quality content.
15 years from now: Best Espresso Machines Under $50,000
#ChasingTheDragon
Best Espresso Machines Under 5 DOGE
Mr. Hoffmann, I truly feel like a coffee genius after watching your videos for three days in a row. Thank you :')!
Happy new Year James. Great to see how all the machines work. I’m on my second Sage (first lasted years and years) I’m really pleased with results and happy to hear Sage was one of your top choices 😊☕️
I checked with the retailer when I bought my Appartamento, and he assured me they always check and calibrate the machines before they ship them. Good to know to ask, thank you. Having received a machine with the pressure set correctly, I'm happy to report it gives me delicious coffee every day.
Had the Rancilio for ten years. It never missed a beat. All parts can be replaced. Never need to buy another machine.
I’ve had a Silvia for over a decade as well. The Silvia Pro was only released early 2020.
I own the Sage Dual Boiler for about a year now. I only use the manual button, and do a pre-infusion for about 15 seconds at minimum pump pressure before letting the button go (at that time the first drips come out of the basket), and then the espresso is really great. The pressure then probably doesn't spike that much since the puck is already wet.
I would like to see this in practice. Don't you want to make a video of how you prepare espresso? Thank you. Have a good time .
While I’m probably in the range below these machines, this review was incredibly informative. Love the honesty.
I have the Lelit. It fits my counter as well as my lifestyle perfectly. A larger unit would be problematic for me - and perhaps for many others. The warmup time is long but a wifi plug sorts that out perfectly. I set it to come on before I wake up and to turn off after lunch. I have not played with pressure yet but after 6 months of use I’m very happy and the machine has been absolutely consistent throughout. I’d prefer to add the few hundred pounds saved more expensive models to my grinder budget for the best overall home setup.
I own the marax for a few months now and it's been great. Seeing the espresso machine blend into the background is exactly how I wanted it to feel during my research prior to buying. It being slightly cheaper let me put more money into a better grinder and from a home 'prosumer' standpoint, it has performed with no issues so far. Warm up time 20-24 mins, pull 2-3 shots, and steam milk. Performance will taper with any more consecutive pulls so more than two people will need a little time to build more steam.
Have you looked at the Bezzera bz10? Looks similar to the Mara X but heats up a lot quicker apparently
For a real life example on longevity I have the earlier version of the Breville. I've poured 4-8 shots every morning for 4 years. We got it on sale for $450. It has changed my life. I'll never be without. It is still going strong.
Nice to hear, but I also want to put the „4 years“ for longevity into perspective. I own an ECM Giotto (the „consumer“ ECM models are now the „Rocket“ brand) since 2011 and I bought it used for 500€, so it is a 2005 model. Sure, I did replace some gaskets an small parts in the E61 brewing unit at some point, but those parts were well below 100€ in total and I consider that service, not repair. The machine is still going perfectly and makes the best coffee - after 19 years.
I bought the original Breville double boiler ten years ago - the one with no descaling port. We make just 2 coffees per day, but it does get used every day. I've replaced the pump, the steam valve and a couple of other bits, but it's still going. So unless the quality has gotten worse, I think the longevity is pretty good. Will probably buy again.
Certainly says something about the longevity if you’re expecting to buy it again, though!
@@zbronstein3901 I think the "buy again" refers to the brand in general, or if they consider upgrading to the next higher model of espresso machine.
I've done a ton of internet research and have been saving up for a Dual Boiler for quite some time, I'm glad to see my conclusion confirmed before I actually dropped money on it!
An Old school Silvia paired with Sir Rocky has been in my kitchen for 11 years, no issues ever. 11 years of daily espressos, brewed perfectly. I descale once per quarter, empty the drip tray once per week. The others look beautiful and would be fun to take for a ride like the new boy at school. But my Mack truck Silvia gets the job done and continues to make me smile every morning.
@Apple Pear Hello. Fellow Silvia V3 user here with an aftermarket PID from SCG. I make cortados and flat whites daily. I am considering the Pro just for the dual boiler aspect. Looked at reviews on it. Is it fair to say that all you get with the Pro is the dual boiler and a built in PID? Are there any other improvements that you noticed? Did they fix the goofy hex screw at the bottom of the screen?
loved my Silvia (that I installed a PID one is) & Rocky and cleaned it like it was a Slayer, but my Apartmento & Fausto is next level. Can't even compare in terms of consistency (thermal mass).
My Breville dual boiler has been making incredible espresso's for 10 years. After the warranty expired I do my own maintenance. I've replaced the pump and solenoid. All the water and steam connections use small silicone o-rings which need replacing over time. The replacement of the o-rings is pretty simple but finding a source for them other than Breville was challenging. I found the correct ones on Amazon and the bag contains several hundred o-rings which most likely will last me my life time. An excellent machine which makes incredible shots.
Thank you James. Your incredible knowledge saves me from making very big mistakes.
It would be great to see the Hoffmann do a comparison of spring lever and manual lever machines - who wants to see this?
LEVER
LEVER
LEVER
LEVER
LEVER
LEVER
LEVER
LEVER
LEVER
LEVER
LEVER
LEVER
Please!
I’m becoming more convinced that a lever machine is the way to go for me. Small kitchen, smallish budget all points to a lever plus it’s a more interactive way to brew an espresso.
@@m70mlg Exactly. I didn't want to spend all that money and in the end I can only press 3 buttons. I'm quite happy with the La Pavoni and a Kinu hand mill and all the ways they let me play.
Hitting the right brew temperature is quite finicky and time consuming, but other machines in that price range would probably not be consistent with that either.
"Rocket Appartamento - The First of the Heat Exchangers" would make a great Dark Souls boss.
i didnt know i can do a spit take without drinking water.... now I do
get Vaatividya in here
Amazing! Considering I own the appartamento, I endorse this statement 😂
Another Dark Souls boss that I will defeat on my 927th attempt.
I have a Breville Dual Boiler for about 6-7 years and well, it leaked a couple of years ago and I just replaced all the gaskets and still works like a charm. I love it more because I got it as a clearance display unit for like 30% of the price tag, so can’t complain here!
Interesting! I’ve actually read reviews that steered me away from it for the exact reason James said: it’s not meant to be opened. Some reviews said they had issues and it couldn’t be repaired so they had to buy a new one. Some users have had issues more than once and after two Breville machines moved to a Profitec where they could purchase parts and repair it themselves. Glad to hear that you have had success repairing the Breville.
@@matthewpringle164 yeah, to be honest with you, the model I have is the one that has an issue with the steam pump not working after running the de-scaling program, so it didn’t work for a few weeks, then I noticed some steam leaking into the gauge. I contacted Breville and they wanted to charge me $500 + shipping and parts to service it, so I decided to get a gasket service kit for like $40 and taking the tisk of DIY eith the help of RUclips. It is really not hard if you jnow what you’re doing. In my case I had no idea what I was getting into and as I have poor vision I had a hard time with those hose fasteners! I was so frustrated, but I actually made it through and the steam valve mysteriously worked again a couple of days later. Now I learned; not to rin the de-scale program and do
It manually if needed and now I have a method to replace the gaskets when needed. Is not a user friendly process the first time, but at least it’s not handicapped by the manufacturer and well I have saved lots of money anyways.
@@rp.aguilera I agree, I was scared of breville "reliability" or the future of repair to be more exact but there are a lot of videos and information out there on home-barista. I used to have the infuser and bambino plus. They didn't get hot enough for light roasts. I don't mind DIY so i'm taking the leap. I'm able to get a new BDB at 30% off and put it on a card that adds and extra 2 year warranty. So 4 year warranty. Most of the problems i've seen are just o-rings going out after a few years.
I actually used to have the MaraX and it really annoyed me that if the water tank indicator turned on mid shot you need to refill the tank which mean waiting for the boiler to heat up again. I've been in and out a lot of machines. I had a gaggia classic and now into a Silvia w/ PID. I actually liked the Classic better because there was less water waste when temp surfing and because the boiler was smaller it was a lot quicker to recover.
@@ChristopherMichaelR that’s pretty cool man. You have way more experience than I have with espresso machines. For me the BDB it’s been my gateway machine for coffee in general and to be fair I enjoy using it, heck, I even enjoy doing maintenance on it!
I've had the Mara for a year and it's been amazing. I've used most machines here and I really think for home brewing brewing mara is king taking taking price/performance into account. I do only use a naked portafilter on mine.
Agree
Great review James, as usual.
Since i started making coffee at home, i have kept an eye on the best value for money in terms of equipment. Lately i managed to pair a Sette 270WI to a Breville Dual Boiler and i love it.
First of all, i love the looks of the BDB, it integrates well with any kind of kitchen and whilst looking more like an appliance i can ensure you that is fully serviceable, as you would have seen by browsing around in forums. Also, the modding you can do to it, the feature list and the general reliability of the brand should draw more people over this solution, to be honest.
The only thing that is weird is the price. Apparently this product used to be found as low as 650 AUD when on sale, but i guess the pandemic has made them raise the price a bit. At the moment the cheapest i can find is 899 AUD new, which should equate to roughly 500 GBP. I have no idea why you found it at such a dear price, to be honest. I think that its actual lower price would make it a clear winner in the prosumer cathegory.
Mara X owner here: it took me 5 minutes to adjust the OPV valve from 10 to 8 bars. The valve is easily accessible from the top and does not require any major disassembly (I also wish it was properly set up from the factory!) It might not matter to some, but the pump is ridiculously quiet, which is a great plus in my opinion. Also, the big gap between the portafilter and the drip tray is awesome if you have a tall cup sitting on a scale during your shot. Go to 38:09 on the video and you'll see what I mean! TLDR: It's great
Does the espresso taste better after you lowered the OPV setting?
Just adjusted mine and it seems to pump got a little bit louder by doing so? Did you notice the same? Or am I making this up :D
@Alcarin Not the one you asked, but I just did the same and for the first time I was able to dial in my shot nicely after the adjustment... I also changed grinder burrs, so I was underextracted first but after 1 minor adjustment and 18 in 36 our in 30s (from lever pull) the shot was great!
I also own a Mara-X and agree with pretty much everything that's already been said. All in all a great espresso machine like all of these. I seem to recall the factory OPV setting being 10bar which explains why it's there, but also agree that it should be lower, but is easy to adjust. Steam is.. fine. not super fast, but easy to use, though the steam pressure does sometimes fall too low on the second coffee sometimes causing the milk to do the scream of death and commit hari kari (a short pause between steaming (30 seconds) resolves this). The truth though is, I've had better coffee from this machine than anything I've owned before. I've been in the entry level breville/sunbeam ranges for the last 10+ years due to budget constraints (which have been lovely given their price) so the upgrade to a "proper" machine has been very nice.
Mara-X 10/10, would recommend, given price, and performance.
@@Erumesson I adjusted the grind and the taste is awesome. Not a big difference though. The big upside is that there is less channeling because the pressure is not as extreme. So more consistency!
This is a spectacular review. I learned quite a lot about the process and qualifications of great espresso. Cheers!
Still waiting for James to get back to the drip tray of the Lelit MaraX, as promised at 8:15.
Agreed. I always struggle to get it out nice and straight. Lucky I don’t need to empty it much though. Love my Mara X. Just wished it was as quiet as the day I got it! Had the pump changed but still the same. Now I need to research how to lower the pressure. Looking forward to losing that bitterness.
@@apllella I'm considering the same machine, do you wish you had considered anything else? I'm trying to grasp the comparisons of if it'd be worth it for me to save money getting Victoria to put rest towards grinder, or if it's better to get the Elizabeth for the similar price point
@@andreasporsborg3438 All done and now running at 9 bar. It does make a difference.
@@LastAphelion I think it’s a great machine if you want temperature stability and barely steam milk in a device that looks cool. E61. If you steam quite a bit I would look elsewhere. I found it frustrating making 3 different drinks on the weekend using decaf/almond milk/diary/etc. but to make my 1-2 espresso per day it is perfect for the price. My next upgrade will be a grinder and then a dual boiler pressure profiling machine when I have more money then sense. This is still easier then a single boiler to steam milk though.
@@apllella is dual boiler pressure profiling maybe bianca worth pay more for home use ? or should i stick mara x
James' phrase of the day, "brute force", followed by "if I'm honest".
Not „i quite like the feet”?
Rather “I’m frustrated” :-)
Or "Stop if you've heard this before"?
I own Lelit MaraX (my first espresso machine) and I love it. It's very small which is great for those with small kitchen. The only annoying thing for me is steam pressure because it goes down as I'm frothing milk. It means that if it's 7-8 on start I won't get well steamed milk because pressure drops to 6-7 before I reach target temp of milk. As result I usually froth milk first and then brew shot of espresso. To do that I open main valve, letting some water out. It forces MaraX to boil more water. You can hear it. I wait till pressure reaches 10-11 and begin frothing immediately. If you wait more pressure may go down to as low as 6. I agree with James that it's not worth upgrading to other machines from this list - MaraX is amazing for the money. My next machine will certainly be two boiler device from higher price category.
sounds like you're looking at the wong gauge........
Do you still enjoy the machine? Looking into buying one
Excellent comparison video. I’m probably biased. I have 2 Breville Dual Boilers and they’re an amazing machine. Just get your dosage, grind and tamp right and I’m not experiencing high brew pressure. I tend to hit and stay at 9 bar. Above all, it’s a beautiful piece of kitchen furniture. I have loved this model for years. Bravo Breville.
The pressure issue with the Sage : you can run the entire shot at any start pressure you like , simply set Preinfusion time to 60 seconds and adjust the pp . pp66 is roughly 6BAR on my machine.
Came here to say the same.
This is brilliant! I have no idea why I didn't think of that, great tip!
Do you lose the preinfuse phase then? Does that create any issues?
As pointed out by others, I've found the downside of doing this is losing that gentle pre-infusion phase. Sure, the vibe pump has a natural ramp, but you're right up there pretty quickly. Taste wise, I have preferred the trade-off of softer pre-infusion followed by over pressure for the remainder of the shot. It is annoying, because I feel like you're really left choosing between different ways to destroy your puck.
@@jameshoffmann Don't worry with a bit more practice, you'll be doing it like a pro!!! :).
Another lazy, but messy tip to see the effect, prior to doing the full Slayer mod is to run it at 9bar as normal, but crack open the hot water tap just a bit (use a little jug to catch the runoff => no waste). By manipulating how much you hold it open, you can increase/decrease pressure on the puck whatever way you want emulating the results of the slayer mod without any mod at all.
thank you James, great video as always,
one point to add, Lelit Elizabeth v3 falls in the same price range, and I highly believe it outperforms all of them.
As someone who has owned the Sage (Breville for me as I'm in AUS) dual boiler I can definitely highly recommend it. We bought the machine at the start of 2020 as we moved to working from home and needed access to good coffee!
Our machine has made a minimum of 4-6 double shots almost every single day for close to 3 years straight, and I must say, it has impressed us with how well the build has stood up over time. we got the machine on sale for $899 Australian dollars (~500GBP) and were a little worried that it being aimed more at the consumer rather than prosumer that it may not stand up over time. It definitely seems to be built to last, and 3 years later all of the buttons / knobs / levers still feel as solid as the day we bought it.
Regarding pressure, You may have found some quality control issues with your machine as the one we received brews at very close to 9bar on the gauge.
Also the ability to set your shot to a set volume has been a huge quality of life improvement (and after testing it for the first few shots when dialing in a new coffee it seems to be pretty accurate to within a ml or 2)
4 to 6 double shots per day!? You need to get that addiction sorted cobber 😄
@@aldozilli1293 between myself and my wife working from home, i think 3 18g coffees per day isnt outrageous
what addiction ?@@aldozilli1293
Great to see an honest review... thanks for mentioning all the important details!
Recently bought the Sage Duo Boiler and I love it. Have had no issue with over pressuring. Goes up to 9 bar and then drops off to about 8-7.5.
I think it's just hit or miss whether you get one from the factory with the OPV set incorrectly. I have the BBE and there are many who complain the factory pressure is too high, but mine has been fine.
Thanks for including the Sage Dual Boiler. Our voices were heard.
I've had the breville dual boiler for about 1-year now, no complaints. He's right that it feels & looks like a consumer machine rather than a prosumer. It easily outpaces the rest of the group when you factor in the grinder. If space is a constraint (I live in a condo), then this is the best value for money at the price range. Going with the Profitec Pro 500 & grinder would easily be 50% more. It really depends on your budget at the end of the day.
Barista of 13 years here, I have had all these machines and many more, and i can tell you without a doubt, the Breville dual boiler is by far the best non commercial machine I've owned, if you know what you're doing, it will never let you down
I was leaning towards this machine, till I learned it is not a forever machine the Breville won't send you parts to fix it after warranty.
I imagine Rancilio is going to take these suggestions at heart and make the necessary changes in their V2 Pro machines, just a hunch. I've had a standard Silvia for 12 years now and still love it. I've replaced the boiler, the OPV, the steam wand... and it just keeps on going. If Rancilio takes your observations about the water tank and drip tray and makes some design changes, I'd probably go with due to brand loyalty... however I do really love how the Lelit / Rocket / Profitec look, their aesthetics just appeal to me (I've wanted a Quickmill Anita for the longest time and it's a very similar design). To be honest, if I were to make any investment in my coffee situation right now, it'd be a new grinder before a machine. While I really want to be able to brew and steam at the same time, I'd probably be better off with a top notch grinder...
Great content as always James.
Update: I've since saved my pennies, got a DF64 grinder and am about to purchase an ECM Mechanica V Slim... turns out the pulling a shot and steaming at the same time has become more important to me because I have a 1 year old who I can't take my eyes off of for more than 10 seconds... can't wait for that steam mode any longer!
I feel that you perfectly captured the experience of brewing with an Appartamento. It's a quality piece, everything feels well done, everything works and it all looks wonderful. Despite this, it feels a bit lacking in features compared to others in class. I purchased my appartamento secondhand with well over a thousand dollars of accessories for less than MSRP of the machine itself (owner was moving) and have been quite happy with it. My honeymoon phase with the machine left me with no complaints, however as I have continued to learn about coffee and the nuances of espresso I've come to feel like I may be barred from some of the finer details. I've decided it doesn't bother me, though, my coffee tastes good and therefore am happy.
Exactly. Got my Serie Nera for $500 (US) off on an open-box sale. Got the bottomless portafilter and lowered the brew pressure to avoid channeling. The brew pressure really is too high on the Appartamento out of the box. I have not adjusted the steam pressure, which is super powerful for milk drinks (now with a 2-hole tip on the Nera). I just have to do a long flush before brewing to ensure the brew temperature is not too high. Cannot complain. Makes excellent coffee and looks great. Could it be further tweaked to produce better shots? Probably. But it really isn’t necessary because the average shot tastes very good, whether in a straight shot, or in an Americano or milky drink. James is right that it likely isn’t worth upgrading to any of the other featured machines if you’ve dialed in your machine. I’m not sure I would upgrade to any other prosumer machine period at this point. The advantage I would gain would be marginal and not worth it given my wants and routine.
Yup! As for the Appartamento, mine was over heating from the factory, I did buy it for the availability of support, I believe I made the right purchase, because of the support, with my Eureka Specialita grinder it makes splendid espresso!
I started my espresso journey at home using a Solis machine and a Baratza Encore grinder. After a few years, I invested in a Rancilio Silvia Pro (2 boilers) and a Niche Zero grinder. I can say that the investment was well worth it!!!! It’s my morning routine to pull excellent espressos! With the solid performance of this combo, I’m very pleased, and I can dedicate myself to finding and experimenting different coffees from all over the world.
Thanks for your review of these machines.
I've been using the Lelit Mara X daily for some 8 months now. I do like it for it's relatively small footprint, industrial look and overall performance. I also appreciate that it's made in Italy. Aesthetically its quite beautiful and and seems relatively robust for its size.
I also appreciate that there is good on line support and RUclips tutorials by the Manufacturer.
I don't own the Rancillo but I am an electrical engineer and understand why their engineers chose to use the Momentary Switches. The engineers actually improved the reliability because the control voltages can be much lower and that can eliminat- the arcing between the contacts of the switch. This machine apparently makes use of PID controllers and electronic Latches. When the Momentary switch is depressed the latch 'Holds" that signal for use by the electronic controller which is basically a computer-based system.
There's no reason the computer couldn't be connected to a toggle switch with the same low voltage signalling. The start stop is under user control either way.
For the brew switch I think I would actually like the momentary behaviour better, though the rocker design is the wrong affordance for a momentary switch, which is I think the main that annoys James. It should be visually different type of switch if it's momentary because most of everyone's experience with switches that look like that is that they toggle and stay toggled until someone changes them.
@@spudd86 Rancillo just need to either hire an Industrial Designer, or replace the one they currently have.
Maybe it's so the pump isn't accidentally running when the machine turns on? Same goes if the steam valve is open and machine switched on. Probably like child safety features???
I’m not an engineer but thought the same thing. Those two scenarios were running through my head.
It's for EU regulation, power consumption of electric appliances, not electric arcing, or anything related to reliability - adding a whole board of electronics would make it less reliable than a single good old kachunking toggle switch. With the momentary switch, having it shut of on a timer is much simpler. EU regulations mandates automatic shutdown after 30 minute idle time. For example the US version of the Gaggia Classic has good old toggle switches, but the EU version does not, the EU appliance shuts off automatically after 20 minutes (basically shuts it off when it's finally up to temp), the US version stays on till you turn it off.
This helped me understand the design of some of the machines and what I'm looking for when buying a machine, thanks.
We’ve had a breville dual boiler running in our office for 10 years. making about 10-20 coffee a day. We have it serviced every 2 to 3 years. The element has finally gone in it. Just replaced it with a new one. $850 AUD. Don’t know why it’s £1199 in the UK. But it’s an incredible machine. Me and most of my colleagues have got one for home.
"If I get up, I want coffee, then I have to go and switch it on, that's frustrating"
Me saving up for an aeropress: Yep, deal breaker.
A cheap smart plug from Amazon can turn on the machine for you at a set time. Potential solution there.
You are right aaron. I have a smart plug. Mine is set to turn on every morning at 7am and to turn off a 9am. Problem solved
@@furiousbane I even start mine from my car. When I get home, the machine is ready 👍
Sage barista pro, 3, 2, 1, brew.
Lol.. the replies have completely missed the humor in the comment.
“ Don’t put milk in the water tank” this was a laughable find. Great job covering all these espresso machines. I found this very enjoyable and informative.
It's Breville/Sage, the messages on the unit aren't entirely serious. Mine has an "empty me" sign that pops up when the drip tray gets full. I haven't seen any wrong labels, but they may have put that on their in response to just a handful of incidents as a but of a joke.
My son has a Sage, not the one here but a single boiler plus grinder. Bought when lockdown started and we began working from home. Even that machine made coffee so much better than the Azera instant we had been drinking. Having had a good experience, I think I'm going to go with the Sage dual boiler as an upgrade. At the end of the day, I'm making half a dozen a day, so really a fully commercial machine just isn't necessary. Probably just need a decent grinder now that would complement it.
Super informative and thoughtful review. Thanks again!
One small but important feature of the Breville/Sage Dual Boiler is the ability to fill the reservoir from the top/front. It's almost a requirement if the space you have for your espresso machine has upper cabinets. Some of these (and others I considered) have removable reservoirs that would be impossible to remove if the machine were placed under an upper cabinet. They would also be challenging to fill if the reservoir weren't removed when they are under a cabinet. Moving some of the heavier machines on a regular basis just to fill the reservoir wouldn't be practical either. That wasn't the only reason that a Breville Dual Boiler found its way into my kitchen, but it was a consideration. Another cute feature on that one is the float that lets you know when the drip tray is full. I haven't found it to be necessary, but it's interesting that they thought of it.
A super underrated feature to be sure.
I’ve had one of these machines for 5yrs now and it’s used every day to make 9 to 10 coffees with no fuss, it’s an amazing machine if you love coffee ☕️ I would fully recommend Sage machine, 👍🏻☕️🥇
That seals the deal!
You have to take tank out? You can’t just fill them from the top like the sage? I think all you’re saying is the sage has a tank that doesn’t come out and the rest do. They all fill from the top.
@@ironcucumber9391 yeah, but the sage fills from the front down a funnel/chute instead of pouring directly in. You can have most of the machine under a cabinet and still be easily able to refill the tank without moving the machine.
I've got a MaraX and I've noticed it in the background for a while now. I've been looking forward to this one...
I love your videos! I have a Breville DB and my pressure sticks at 9. Perhaps after your review, they listened, and fixed it!
Hello James, Love your videos! Rich in information, thoughtful and balanced in comments, every time! I'm in Canada, I have the Profitec Pro 500 PID and I would like to let your audience know what I know about a potential issue with the installation of one crucial component inside the machine, the SSR, or a solid state relay, at least with North America models or the 100V-120V world. The SSR is the power switching device to the heating element that the PID regulates the boiler temperature with. The SSR, like all semiconductor devices, does not go well with high temperature, and can either fail or shut itself down in self-protection at over temperature conditions. SSR also generates heat when it conducts electric current, i.e., it heats itself up. Therefore, thermal management measures are usually required when it comes to installing a SSR, such as a location that is away from a heat source, a broad, cool metal surface that the SSR can thermally couple with and to dump heat onto, or a heatsink mounted on its back to help throw the heat away to the ambient space. Unfortunately, in the Profitec Pro 500 PID, as well as a few other Profitec machines equipped with PID, the SSR is mounted on a thin strip of stainless steel bracket, and is positioned next to the exposed end-plate of the boiler, the hottest surface in the machine. The particular machine of mine started to cut the heating power out during back-to-back brewing and steaming at about 1-1/2 years. I've seen in a few online communities that owners experiencing the same trouble. I believe most such problems would arise after the 1-year warranty term, mine being the case. Perhaps the over-temperature condition isn't severe enough to show problems up in factory production test, but it causes long term reliability issues instead. I'm fortunately handy enough and was able to install a heatsink to the SSR, and relocate the device to a cool corner away from the boiler, and the problem never came back however hard I use the machine. I've also seen coffee machine dealers' service department do SSR relocation repair/mods for Profitec customers. As far as machines for 220V--240V world go, I don't seem to have an impression they suffer from this SSR failure issue. I guess that could be because the electric current that the SSR has to let pass halves as the voltage doubles, for the same wattage heater, therefore, the SSR self-heating isn't as significant, and Profitec/ECM just got away with their marginal thermal management measures in SSR mounting. Even if that is the case (that they got away), a marginal measure in design/engineering does not seem to be a good match with the product image such an expensive and "going-for-ever" machine poses. Finally, I do love and enjoy my Profitec Pro 500 PID, every day, and I'm glad it's one of your top picks in this video. I personally think even with the potential SSR issue it's worth more than its price. I'm posting this response just so that Profitec shoppers would be informed of its potential issue and the solution, and be able to plan ahead.
A bit if a late question.. do you happen to know if the Pro 600 has the same issue? Thanks!
@@felix111 I've never heard of that problem with a 600. From the photograph images of 600 interior, its two boilers are mounted vertically, and the boilers' high temperature surfaces, or end plates, are facing away where the two SSRs are mounted. On top of that, what seems to supposedly make a big difference from what we have in a 500 PID machines is that the two SSRs in the 600 are mounted on a bracket that seems to be made of aluminum, a much better metal for heat conducting and dissipation than stainless steel, and that bracket has a much, much greater surface area to dump heat to the ambient air. I would not be surprised if 600 owners never complain about heater cut out due to SSR failure.
@@triod371 Thank you I appreciate
I wish I had read this before I bought mine! I'm on my second SSR replacement in 1.5 years of ownership. This is an extremely frustrating engineering failure and my dealer says the manufacturer is washing their hands of the issue. May I ask where you relocated yours to, and whether you had enough slack with existing wiring? Thanks!
I have MaraX, on blind filter it pushes around 10 bars at the gauge. Not sure If it should be set at 9, but I heard they set all machines like this. Overall, I like how its built and what I got for the price, just brewing times I noticed is a bit longer due slow pressure ramp (first drops show at least at 10th or 12th second from lever pull). After 6 months something is failed and temperature started to fluctuate beyond the limits resulting in boiler overpressure, so it went for warranty repair. Lelit has a great service and they actually communicate. Even I was unlucky, still can recommend Mara X. Heatup time is 24 min, which is also "fast" as goes for HX.
I have the Profitec Pro 500, for about six months now, and absolutely love it. One really nice feature that James didn't touch on is the sprung valves. There's a spring that actually does the job of holding the steam and hot water valve seats closed - opening the valve applies pressure against that spring. So there's no need to "crank" the knobs to securely close the valves. This should also make for longer valve seat service life. I have mine on a simple Wifi outlet, so it comes on about 30 minutes before I'm awake. It is set up for 10 bars at the gauge. The (prominent online, US based) reseller I purchased from claims 10 bars at the gauge and 9 bars at the head is "correct" pressure - so I don't know that these machines are set up "wrong" as much as there's simply not consensus about what "correct" pressure is. Next project is to back off the OPV to 9 bars at the gauge and see if I'm happier.
Getting close to purchasing one myself. You still in love with it?
Hey man. I am thinking of the Prof500 for a micro coffee shop. Have you ever done 4-5 back to back lattes? Does it hold up nice?
@@sebaba001 I ended up getting the 600. If you’re doing something like that you definitely want two boilers. I’d argue get the 700 so you can tap in to a waterline. You will not be happy with the 500 for how you intend on using it.
I dont know how I missed this James Hoffman video?! I have owned the profitec pro 500 for about a year after this came out and I can very well say that this video confirmed the correct choice I made over the Rocket. I was able to pick up my Profitec 500 to include the PID AND a flow control installed for the price of a Rocket Apartamento, and it was tested and configured by the great folks at WLL. It arrived at my doorstep ready to go and man, I have been loving every day with it since. The only "MODS" I have done is to change the plastic knobs to walnut ones and swap to a bottomless portafilter. It has been serving me well with no issues, looking forward to adding a Kafatek Monolith next to it as per you other video :)
Mara x is such a beast! love it 4 years down. Small countertop footprint could be a decisive factor if you live in a small flat. Pressure gauge took 10 min to adjust. Will not swap it with anything else. I would go as far to say- I personally would compete with any brand or barista in brewing world class espresso. Thanks for a great channel !
Sage dual boiler heats up in seconds. Having been branded a coffee snob by my friends, being able to make them an espresso on demand as they spot the machine in the corner is a life saver!
Pfft you don't leave your espresso machine fully poweered up during waking hours? Jeez how many coffees are you drinking a day, must be hardly more than 10!
Sorry to reply to such an old comment, but thanks for mentioning this. I thought maybe I missed that detail in the video.
If for some reason you circle back to this ancient comment, do you mind me asking what your upgrade path to the Sage dual boiler was, and how different an experience was it from those upgrades? I'm very early in this journey (just got a DTP) and curious what these bigger, more expensive machines get you in a real life setting.
@@BokBarber hesitant to respond if you're just starting out as I don't want to put you on the wrong path, either - path A: coffee that you enjoy or - path B: coffee as a hobby. Coffee being a hobby is a slippery slope with potentially your hard earned money sat at the top.
1) Biggest upgrade I ever made right out the bat - freshly roasted beans. I'm not talking a bag that says it's fresh, I mean that the bag should have a "roasted on" date otherwise don't bother.
2) I had a stove top for and cheap hand grinder for many years. I even got a stove top milk frother. Loved it and still use it but it's not cafe quality and I enjoy making drinks for people of that standard.
3) I upgraded the grinder to an old Spong. No2 as it was much faster and serving guests was getting awkward with my cheap hand grinder.
4) started on the slippery slope and realised I could not get crema with a stove top so got a Rok manual espresso maker. Loved that it was all non electric with my hand grinder. Fresh beans made the biggest difference here. But it got more awkward making drinks for guests as it only took longer to make more than one drink.
5) further down the slope and more research tells you that the grinder is king (after fresh beans). So I got a Mazzer SuperJolly to speed up serving and to get the best espresso possible. I was hooked now, bought a naked porta filter etc and made some great shots.
6) I spent a lot of time brushing out the doser on my Mazzer so modded the hell out of it (it's meant for a large cafe not my kitchen)
7) I needed a proper steam wand and coffee machine and got a La Pavoni Europiccola. I immediately modded the steam wand tip and other bits.
8) thousands of mods later, it still took ages to make a coffee and I was considering basically rebuilding the machine to fit PIDs etc. By this point people don't ask me for a coffee and my parents bring their own INSTANT round to my house rather than watch to them what looks like an amateur science experiment when I make them one.
9) Took the plunge with the sage DB. Instant heat up, can steam at the same time as pulling a shot, no need to mod it and get a soldering iron out. Works better than all before right out of the box with less faff. Won't look back. Personally I love that it's got a 28mm portafilter too.
10) splurged on a Nieche Zero as the modded Mazzer was not great for single dose. I now make a coffee quicker than my wife makes tea (factoring boil and a proper brew time).
I will say that everything bar the Neiche was 2nd or 3rd hand on ebay.
Sorry for the long response but you did ask and as you can tell I chose "path B"...
@@arr21000 Thanks for the reply! That was legitimately a great read.
I'm personally way, way earlier along than this, to the point that I barely exist. Essentially:
1) Started binging James Hoffman videos over the summer. At this point I was already grinding my own beans for pour-over coffee in the morning, using what I assumed to be a decent electric grinder. I had invested the mental energy into dialing this process in long ago. I cared enough to get a decent cup in the morning and not use pods, but it was nothing like a hobby. The Hoffman videos put the idea of espresso in the back of my brain but not in a serious way at that time.
2) Left it alone for a bit. Then started watching Hoffman again over the winter. Watched tutorials on how to dial in espresso, despite having only ever drank a straight espresso shot at a cafe maybe once. I was starting to get intrigued by the scientific parts of the process.
3) At this point, I was vaguely weighing the idea of getting an espresso machine, but the price of entry for a decent one held me back. I wasn't going to spend hundreds of dollars to dive into a hobby I might not even like.
4) That's where I probably would've left it, except that by sheer happenstance I came across a Breville DTP at a recycle center last weekend. It was so absurdly cheap that I had to pick it up and see if it worked. I enjoy restoring electronics and so figured that if there were only some minor fixable problem I'd have struck gold. Turns out that the only thing wrong with it was that it was missing its porta-filter and tamp. I descaled and thoroughly cleaned the machine, sent away for the missing parts and I just like that have a fully working entry level 15 bar espresso machine in my kitchen.
That's where I'm at as of this week. I've pretty much been thrust into this world at breakneck pace thanks to a charming internet Brit and a timely thrifting score. I discovered immediately that my electric grinder isn't capable of espresso grinds at all. My old hand grinder works, and I was able to dial it in and get a couple acceptable shots out of some cheap Aldi organic beans, in that my shot times were around 30 seconds for a 1:2 extraction with about 16.5g of coffee (they even produced some crema!) Even with those cheap beans I don't hate the taste, so I'm excited to try and find some good stuff soon... though my rational brain is telling me to pace myself and work my way up to really good stuff.
I'm not in danger of buying a real high-end espresso machine yet, given that I just got this one in line three days ago. I was only curious if you had worked your way up the Breville/Sage line (or from a more entry level machine) how it may have improved your quality of life in terms of making friends/family drinks. Like, if it was a big step or if diminishing returns had started to set in. Even a few days into this, I am noticing that getting a good shot feels more like a high school chemistry lab experiment than "making coffee" as I'm traditionally used to, and I don't dislike that, but if I had a bunch of people over I could see it being an issue. I'm not planning on spending three hours making everyone lattes every time I have people over.
If anything, I'll probably be upgrading my grinder soon. I'm going to give it a month and see if I fall off this horse first. I can still get out cheap. If I'm still interested a month down the road (or the major hurdle from keeping me interested is having to hand grind beans for 10 minutes straight before every espresso shot) then I'll sink some real money into it. I could see this becoming a hobby for me, but I'm generally pretty good at knowing when to call good enough good enough, so I'm not too worried about getting lost down the rabbit hole just yet. Time will tell.
I've seen countless times manufactures, claiming that the OPV needs to be set at a higher pressure in order to get the best extraction. That a vibration pump can not be set as if it were a volumetric pump, hence it's set at the factory above the 9 bar. It's definitely not an oversight.
From all I could see, Profitec is above all those others in build quality. Even details as cable and pipe routing is very well thought. And aside to the Breville, all these machines will outlive us all with just a couple of easily available spares and proper maintenance work.
Same here I've always heard that vibrations pumps need higher pressure than volumetric!! I dont know what to believe anymore
There is a video on RUclips where Bezzera explains in the factory why vibration pumps need to be set higher for the same flow. The Profitec, Bezzera Magica, Rocket Giotto, ECM heat exchangers are all almost the same machines. To change the pressure you only have to adjust one little screw inside. Here is the explanation from the manufacturer himself!: ruclips.net/video/E4y4-E2aL3U/видео.html
I have Ascaso Steel Uno from 2013 that works perfectly (with PID) and with portafilter measurement it was putting out 12.8 bar in brewing. I modded the OPV and now perfect max of 9 bar, and much better shots. I spoke with tech lead from Ascaso and he said the higher pressure was needed. I said no way and there’s no way the shots are better at high pressure.
The vibration pumps in these machines do not allow a constant pressure profile that the modern commercial machines support. They are designed to not even need an OPV except as a safety measure to protect the pump if the puck prep is REALLY bad!
The key is that, historically, surveys never typically favored a commercial 9 Bar setup over a Vibration Pump. Yes, there were differences, but there was no definitive preference!
Profitec/ECM is typically the top-end of the manufacturers. They are using a pump (Ulka EX5) that emulates the characteristics of a Spring-lever machine that peaked at 11 Bars, and ended a shot at 5 Bars...
These machines are typically regarded as having taste characteristics that are generally favorable compared to the standard characteristics of a 9 Bar extraction.
James tends to prefer lighter roasts, which have different extraction characteristics to the normal espresso. He prefers pour-over to espresso in general! All of this should be factored into this analysis!
@@waoneill Yes, I agree with you. I have an Isomac and I've messed quite a bit with the OPV. I find the espresso tasting better with the OPV set to 10 Bar. And the real extraction pressure is down to how fine I've ground the beans.
I plan to replace the Isomac with a Profitec next, the build quality on an Isomac is disappointing.
Thanks for that very interesting and very objective sounding review. I own a Ranchilio and after having waisted 5 pounds of coffee finally I found the ideal setup between grinding, coffepowder-volume, coffeebrand, fat-content, tampering and so on. Took me 2 months to finally find out how to get a grip on this stubborn machine. My recommendation: Never change a parameter after you made your first great espresso with the Ranchilio.
Silvia pro is my jam. Thank you for that info about pressure in portafilter. Will come in extremely handy with my portafilter pressure tests tomorrow.
I had a Breville before, 9 months after I bought it started leaking all over the place. Sent it in to get fixed. They said it was unfixable because water got into the electronics. Luckily, I bought a warranty when I bought the machine. So, I got my money back. Used the money I got back, added a little more to it, bought the Profitec 500. Had a problem with the relay switch I replaced it myself. I bought this machine because it is supposed to be easy to repair. So far, happy with it.
Bought a warranty? These come with a 2 year warranty as standard... I'm sort of confused here.
@@121VeNoM121I heard horror stories of people trying to get results using the warrantys. I bought one from one of the Amazon warranty sellers. I got all of my money back minus the cost of the warranty.
Thanks for the review. I have a Breville dual boiler and generally like the performance. Pressure definitely runs high at times and bleeds off throughout the shot. But stretches milk just fine and the shots can be really good, although not as consistent as I would like. And in terms of durability, I'm on my third machine in six years. Not a great track record. I send it in to Breville along with $400 and the fix or replace it. To be honest, I'm ready for an upgrade. Thanks again!
You'd be surprised how easy it is... you can adjust the OPV on the machine with a turn of a screw and it'll fix your high bar issue. Just did it myself. Makes a world of difference in eliminating channeling.
Are they really so unreliable?! I keep coming across people saying they have to give their machine back.
My Giotto Rocket is 15 years old, daily use and the only failure is the green power on indicator light. Easily replaced. The real advantage of the prosumer units is that the parts are easily and widely available so they have a possible extended life e.g.compared with the Sage/Breville type. These are very suspect and cause their owners a lot of expensive and inconvenient trouble. Basically expensive land fill.
I have been using a Breville 920 double boiler for almost 10 years. I have not had an issue with it, the only prob I have faced is that the steamer sometimes drops a few drops of water. Too many variables with inconsistency in the gauge, quality of coffee and grinder adjustment comes to my mind.
@@jacobspang21 to what pressure do you dial it in at the gauge? 9 bar or even a little lower?
I had the Breville dual boiler for about 5 years before it started to just leak everywhere. I’ve had the Profitec Pro 500 for the last 6 years and I’ve loved it. I did have to change the pump and the gaskets on the Profitec recently, but it was a very cheap and easy repair that I could do myself. The Breville was not as easy to perform DIY maintenance on.
Nah, the Breville repair is not that hard. It’s intimidating maybe, but once you get all the tiny haskets located it’s just as easy as pulling straws!
I just got the dual boiler on sale for the equivalent of £750, I love it and my friends who have it says as long as you keep up maintenance they can last quite a while. Love the small touches like seeing the water level easily from the front, moving the machine around, the instant steam from the dual boilers and it’s actually quieter than my previous machines. Love it so far, over here in NZ they also include a decent midrange Grinder as well, for £750 on sale it was a no-brainer.
I also have one of these and I love most things about it, except wondering how long is going to last, because it does indeed feel less substantial than the other machines. That said, despite the materials they've used, it's seemingly very thoughtfully made.
Going on 3 years with mine. No problems so far (knock on wood). It seems to me that the important parts (pumps, heaters, etc.) are well made and metal where the high touch ones are plastic. Makes a great espresso and flat white for my tastes, although I do struggle to dial in new coffees (likely user error).
I've been using my Appartamento for a little over a year. I've generally achieved appropriate pressure and heat after only ~20 minutes and, following a brief cooling flush of the brewhead, I'm good to go. 20 minutes is still a long-ish time when I tend to want coffee "now", but that's why I plugged mine into a smart plug so I can ask my Amazon overlord device or fruit phone to fire it up in advance through a smart routine.
did the same
Fruit phone lol
I don’t even know much about coffee but this mans voice is so Incredible
Binge watch him for a month now I have multiple brewing tool and coffee beans
Had my Breville BDB for around 10 years, bought it when they first came out. About 17500 shots so far and 1 repair, stem boiler temp sensor $20, replaced myself. Easy to open up and adjust the OPV. Agree with the fact there’s lot of plastic inside, but that’s reflected in the price. You can get the latest model for $1000AUD on sale. Also tons of support online and cheap parts if you ever need anything.
Well, the price point and feature of this machine is excellent. How about breville customer service, the part availability?
I bought a BDB about 2 years ago and it has never missed a beat. They are so easy to set up and use, incredible value for money. My point of reference is a La Cimbali Junior which I still own but never use. I got fed up of waiting for ever for it to warm up and regular expensive servicing to keep it running at its best. I had to replace the pump also at $$$. This said the finish on the BDB is far inferior and scratches easily but at the price point it is not a surprise.
I got myself a Eureka grinder and I would highly recommend the set up to anyone. For $2kAUD you can produce cafe quality coffee 😀
@@iainstewart2102 I am here because we have just returned our Barista Pro. It looks great and of course it is much cheaper than those here but, the output was really inconsistent from shot to shot. It could be user error but my sense is the tolerances are simply not good enough. Easy to use though and got us hooked on espresso as a hobby so not all bad!
it's cheap is AUS because it's australia company
@@steveholden9139 hey Steve - do you mind telling me which Eureka grinder you have? I’m looking to replace my Breville barista to the dual boiler (currently $1000 at jbhifi) and am torn about grinder choice… thanks in advance :)
Hi James, regarding the pressure settings on the Rockets, I own (and built) my Rocket Evolution as well as having worked for the Australian importers of the Rockets.
In Australia, the team bench the machines and correctly set the OPVs to produce the correct 9-Bars at the group as well as undertaking significant preparation of each machine prior to releasing it to stock / customers.
On my own Rocket Evolution, I recently fitted the Profitec variable flow valve and a gauge directly onto the E61 group - the feedback this produces is excellent.
Some words on the thermo-syphon, and group pressure, in earlier E61 machines / vibration pumps, typically there was only one OPV, (which was set to 9 bar). However, when idle, the TS circuit will build to around 12 bar.
In more recent machines such as the Rockets, or if have rotary pumps, there is two pressure settings - 1.) Thermo-syphon OPV, this is set to around 12 bar (protecting the heat exchange), while the pump this is set by an OPV (or the bypass valve on a rotary pump), which sets the group pressure.
The three E61 units in your video, I would have expected to have been correctly set.
I believe the pressure reading difference between the gauge on the machine and a Group Scace tool, this is due to where pressure reading is taken from.
Also damn, hearing such a casual endorsement of the quality of brewing from the Siliva Pro from James means a ton.
They should quote him on an ad and see haw many sales they get. 😅