I’ve owned the Flair 58 for about 3 weeks and I’m very happy with the results I’ve been getting. While not particularly aesthetic, I’m pleased with the “outboard” heating element. “Why”? For the last 30 years I’ve owned a series of quality espresso machines... each of which required a repair or two at some point. I’ve grown tired of the hassle of the inevitable repairs, any of which could end up still having a lingering and perplexing malfunction. My last espresso machine needed about $500 in parts to repair. I decided I’d rather spend the money on the Flair 58. The reviews were very positive and the design is dirt simple; no complex wiring and plumbing to go wrong. In use, the “where am I supposed to disconnect” is easily determined and something I never need to do. Yes, the heating arrangement could be made more aesthetic if integrated into the body of the 58, but then we’re back to the same problems I’m trying to avoid! If the electrical fails, it’s easily diagnosed and replaced.... and for me, that’s beautiful.
To me it's very odd that they went with something as complex as a switching power supply (thereby requiring the separate power brick) for something as simple as a heating element with a few low precision settings. You could easily produce a simple heating element with basic analog control circuitry that has the same behavior as the one they show here and skips the separate brick, plus you would remove the dual plug problem. Sure, it would require more expensive development, but for $90 a unit skimping on something like that is pretty ridiculous (my best guess is they designed it the way they did to avoid the hassle of putting higher voltages into their product, which would likely require more expensive development and certification. As it is they probably just bought the power brick and control unit from someone else and threw it in). As for reparability (which is a very valid concern), this change would have no impact on that, as it could be done in the same style as the existing implementation, placing all the control circuitry on the outside and only having wires inside the unit. Source: I'm an electrical engineer
Aesthetic doesn't mean you have to own an automatic espresso machine that looks beautiful. Espresso machine was made because no one was smart enough to think of a manual one of a design that works, and the materials to make a manual espresso contraption was probably impossible back in the day. There's no such thing as aesthetic anything. But well, humans are picky anyway.
After a long personal research and personal budget constraints, I decided to purchase the Flair 58 when it was open for pre-order. Basically, esprrsso machines that I really wanted were exceedingly out of my budget. I've been using the Flair 58 since early July and have also just receive the Valve Plunger upgrade last month. To be honest, the electrical pre-heat is a feature that to me is very convenient and saves me a lot of time. I have very limited work space and it helps cut down my work flow just a little conveniently. I'm not a coffee expert amd I would assume that most people would not tell the difference in a couple of degrees difference in temperature as described by James. But I have always used water off the boil anyways as I tend to prefer lighter roasts. The valve plunger upgrade also provides me with a faster work flow when I'm making back to back shots for guests at home. I would say my most frustrating points are: 1. Managing a stable pressure can be difficult and by the 3rd to 4th back to back shot, you'll definitely feel it in you upper arms. On the bright side, it's a good workout. 2. The valve/piston tends to misalign after a week or 2 use and you'll have to realign them again by using the temperature gauge to twist them. 3. Finding the right grind size for your roast can be some sort of a challenge during my first couple of months use. Inconsistent pressure will cause you to second guess your grind size. Also, I find the Flair 58 tends to lean to slightly finer grind size than usual and as also reported by other Flair 58 users. Overall, I have no regrets getting the Flair 58 and it has been my daily driver since early July. 😊
I second all of this. I bought the same unit, at the same time, for the same reason. The power controller really doesn't play a significant role in my daily use. It works well, it heats up quickly and I like the littke beep sound it makes. The piston spinning inside the brewhead is a bit annoying and can be tricky to turn it back. But that doesn't happen too often. Warning: You need at least a Niche Zero for this espresso machine because it likes really fine grinds. My niche is turned off the scale to get it fine enough. Overall, I love my Flair and use it everyday.
Yup. To add, I use an Eureka Mignon Perfetto dialed all the way down to usually around 1.25-1.5 for the Flair 58. I use the Perfetto as it makes life a little easier when I interchange with pour over methods. And no, I can't afford to types of specialised grinders. 🥲
I'm not in that boat, i'm in the "i want a good coffee grinder" boat. So every time I watch his video's, he sticks that Niche in there, and after time and research, I decided thats the giant counter paperweight i need for 1000 dollars to grind my coffee. hahaha.
i like how he's so brutally honest but also very constructive to the manufacturers. that adapter bundle really does look like nuisance to manage and i personally think it kills the overall minimal aesthetic.
How true! These machines end up in arguably beautiful homes and end up being aesthetic pieces that are a joy to look at. That whole adapter cable thing seems like an afterthought and ruins the entire product appeal to be honest.
The unplug instructions make the whole thing a write-off. Whomever approved the power supply and heating element for this shouldn't be working in consumer goods. Looks like a great device for people collecting patreon money and making youtube videos.
@@espressomatic Whoever* Edit: To forestall yet more responses with people being wrong, here's an explanation of when to use "who" vs. "whom." "Who" is used to refer to the subject of a sentence. "Whom" should be used to refer to the object of a verb or preposition. Unfortunately this doesn't help you at all if you aren't a huge English grammar nerd who remembers what subjects, objects, and prepositions are. (I assume most people remember that verbs are "doing words.") Luckily I, a huge English grammar nerd, am here to tell you what they are. I even brought my ugly glasses with tape holding them together in the middle. But first, a shortcut: try replacing "who/whom" with "he/him." If "he" sounds right, use "who." If "him" sounds right, use "whom." Let's look at the original sentence: "He approved the power supply" / "Him approved the power supply." A native English speaker automatically recognizes that "he" is correct here, which means you should use "who." This is easy to remember because "him" and "whom" both end in "m." Now, the subject of a sentence is the a noun that is doing or being something. "I am outside." -> the subject is "I". "The cat is playing." -> the subject is "the cat." In the sentence "Whomever [sic] approved the power supply," the subject is "whomever." Of course it should be "whoever" since they are the subject of the sentence. The object is... well, let's do prepositions first. A preposition is a word or phrase (but usually a very short, common word) that shows direction, time, location, place, spatial relationships, or... I forget what else. Examples are "at," "to," "for," "in"/"into," "during," etc. You may have heard that you aren't supposed to end a sentence with a preposition, but that's not correct. It IS correct in Latin, and many Latin grammar rules do apply in English, but this isn't one of them. The object is a noun that is affected by a verb or proposition. In our example sentence, "Whoever approved the power supply and heating element for this," there are two objects: the power supply and heating elements, both of which are affected by the verb "approved." Now, for an example of correct usage of "whom": "At whom is John angry?" First, identify the verb: "angry." That makes identifying the rest of the parts easy. The subject is the person who is "doing" the verb: in this case, John is angry. The object is the person affected by the verb, and since we don't know what person John is angry at, we write "whom." I spent about a half hour writing that so I damn well better not get any more responses with nonsense like "actually both are just fine" or "whom is the more grammatically correct version." Of course now that I've painted an enormous target on my back I'm confident that everyone who reads this comment in its entirety will do exactly that just to mess with me. It's alright; I'd do the same thing in your place.
@@jordananderson2728 It is, in fact, not at all correct. I don't know how you can be so confidently incorrect, especially when you can just look it up in about twenty seconds on Google.
James is endlessly fascinating to watch, he's so earnest, I love it. I have zero interest in buying any of this stuff, but I would watch these videos forever.
Just to be clear you are watching him not the reviews? So he could review spandex pants and if he delivers like this you would watch??? I might too LOL... I don't fully agree with his opinion here and think he is being overly sensitive about certain aspects of this. He knows more than I do but some of his grips is aesthetic in a way that anyone wanting this is not going to care about at all.
and the second I say this I take some back. He makes both pro and con arguments successfully I think. I just had to watch the video at 2x speed then it made sense. Video could have said all this in 12 min or 10 and still have his charm :)🍮 I am buying one of these after going back and forth on it and eventually some insane lever machine down the road that is almost impossible to use just for the challenge.
James, you are so good at explaining complicated subjects and its clear you love what you do. Very fascinating to watch you nerd out on something so many people take for granted every day.
I have owned the October 21 edition for a few weeks now and I love it. The heat gauge doesn't play much of a role in my workflow. It heats up quickly. And it gives you incredible control over pressure and flow. It definitely teaches you why espresso is hard to perfect when you don't have this level of control. I can feel the integrity of the puck through the resistance in the lever. Its an amazing little machine. And with all the other bits in place (nice grinder, you need the fancy kettle, the scales etc) its really quite a nice workflow. I enjoy using it and it can rattle off shots fairly quickly.
I run a small cafe and have been using Flair 58 paired with nanofoamer for my espresso based drinks for the last 3 months. My volume is around 20 cups a day and flair 58 has been perfect for me. It saved me a lot of money since it gives me great back to back shots at this price point. Plus people really appreciate it's looks and the workflow looks very interesting for someone waiting for their cup. Though it does have a bit of a learning curve to make consistent shots and I struggled initially with finding the right grind size and dosage. Overall it hasn't bothered me much during last 3 months and I had the brew chamber replaced once which was pretty smooth as well.
@@matthijskkr It's cheaper to operate (and replace) and takes up less space and requires less maintenance than your "modern machines". Said modern machines which are just plastic variations on manual hardware.
@@leudast1215 cheaper to operate? Yeah because you'll save 5 bucks a month in power maybe As you can see in the video, it takes up a ton of space Manual hardware is slow, that is why we have machines. Making coffee like in this video on a large scale is a waste of time and resources
@@matthijskkr excuse me sir, OP said 20 shots a day. How will a automatic machine help you be more efficient when you don’t even have that many orders to go with?? Im confused
@@henryt9731 It doesn't matter how small the amount of shots you make are. If it costs a lot of time to operate the machine, then it costs money, because you might as well do something else (for example: making another coffee at the same time for another customer)
@@jameshoffmann Wow, a reply from the Dude! I am very honoured 😊 Your kindness always shines through, I have enjoyed watching your channel grow. It is well deserved.
I have been owning a Flair58 v2 for a week now and here are my observations: 1. It's sad that you didn't get the chance to test the new version, because the new workflow is really smooth. The fact that I don't need to remove the pressure gauge all the time is a big plus of the new workflow in my opinion. 2. I agree with you, James, that the power brick is horribly big and ugly, it doesn't fit on my counter at all. I really hope they will come up with something smaller and more integrated, and something that I can ideally buy as an upgrade of the machine I have now. My hypothesis is that in these times of supply chain issues, they went for the easiest and more modular solution to be able to ship to more countries as possible (after all those component look like old laptop chargers, so they must be very easy to build.) Also, thanks for pointing out the plug diagram, I didn't know the order was important (I wonder if that's true in v2 as well). 3. I am sorry that you are not keeping it for longer. As a Flair 58 owner, I would have surely enjoyed more tips and tricks from you in the future. 4. The biggest selling point of this machine to me was how easy it is to maintain, which you didn't touch on much in the review. And the machine really didn't disappoint me when it comes to that. I have pulled ~10 shots so far, and it's as clean as it was in the beginning, without me doing anything.
How do you feel about the water funnel thingy on the v2? I have a v2 as well but I've found that to be frustrating to the point where I've just removed it. It never really stayed in place anyway (if you have the lever down all the way when not using the machine then the stem on the pressure gauge pushes it out of the way) and softens up even more when the machine is heated to the point where it's floppy and awkward. Also makes it harder to see into the chamber and know how much water I've added. The whole thing seems poorly designed. Fortunately I also have a gooseneck kettle and have found that you can add water just fine without the funnel so I've just removed it completely.
@@kevadu OK, here is a funny story. One hour ago, probably at the same time while you were typing your message, I grabbed that funnel rubber thingy and threw it away to the trash can, as a gesture of frustration. I always make short shots anyway (14-15g max), and never fill the chamber to the point where I needed that funnel thingy. So yeah, I agree with you :) Btw, I noticed that in the 58x the funnel thing is a one-piece with the rest of the chamber rubber sleeve. I wonder why they haven't designed it this way for the 58 as well.
@@servicesupport4871 yeah, I know, very few, it's been only one week. I still believe maintainance is going to be easy after many more shots as well though.
One thing to consider regarding the Power Supply. Having it externally is actually great in terms of repairabillity. If the power supply was internal and it fails you would need to return the entire machine instead of just getting a new power supply. Could they have designed it better? Certainly! But I actually prefer having it outside the unit.
I have a flair 58 at home and the power supply is not an issue. The cables are long enough you can easily hide the whole thing below or behind a countertop. The T° control box could be prettier and better designed for the price tho.
I am 100% all for repairability. I'd rather have repairability first in most cases. But repairability doesn't require compromise. If that were the reasoning behind this design, I'd chalk that up to laziness more than anything. Repairability wouldn't decrease by having the housing mated to the apparatus. There are a myriad of ways to mate it to the chassis of the press housing while maintaining repairability. Additionally, having it more contained improves the ergonomics of it, and makes the whole thing a bit safer. When I look at the electronics they've designed here it looks either lazy, inexperienced, cost-saving, or all of the above. I can understand if their desire was to set it up this way for aesthetic purposes, as a call back to 80's electronics. But you can still stylize the housing in that manner and still mate it to the chassis. Ultimately, there are reasons why we don't design and ship electronics like this anymore.
@@JosephDalrymple yep, you can still have it internal, and for instance and plug in using a standardized DC plug, in case you can't buy the internal anymore, just buy an equivalent external one with the same DC plug With some simple tinkering you could technically easily replace almost every internal power supply, they could just make it doable by anyone though with next to no cost to the manufacturer
I don't think he was referring to incorporating the power supply on the machine, just the separate control box. Could still keep an external power supply but would be a much cleaner and more convenient setup. As-is it reminds me of the lamps that have the switch on the cord, I find I'm always reeling cord up from behind the couch or table to find the switch. The low-med-high selection being right on the unit would be much nicer.
As an electronics repairsman, i can tell that usually external power bricks are a lot worse to repair than internal power supplies. In general, you can crack them open in a bench vise, but it is near impossible to getting it together again in a tidy way. They are also often designed in a more cramped way, making repairs harder. For instance, usually the heat sinks are soldered into place and are covering the whole top and bottom of the housing. Desoldering a heat sink is very hard. It is not impossible to deliver something with a repairable power brick, but it is incredibly rare to see one that's repairable. That said, certain power bricks are very reliable - i'm thinking of the stuff Dell delivered with their D610-E6410-E5530 series of laptops. To keep with the coffee stuff, the Philips Senseo coffee machines have built in power supplies for their low voltage stuff. A certain capacitor always fails (a X2 self healing capacitor losing capacit It is trivial to fix for any standard repair shop. About a 30 minute job. Yes, you gotta bring the whole machine to the repair shop, but it's easier to repair than an external power brick which will likely just be thrown away and replaced by a new one - which just adds to the electronics waste pile. That's not a repair. The reason why it uses a power supply at all, is probably just to keep the development cost low. There is no reason at all to run a heating element on low voltage, technically. This thing could run just fine right on a mains socket. A triac dimmer circuit for the temperature setting, with a toggle switch for low/med/high or a knob for continuous control, can either be integrated into the base (they really are small!) or into the mains lead like a lamp cord dimmer. You need a LOT better isolation for the element which might make it look a bit bulkier, but all in all it can totally be done without damaging the sleek looks too much. However, this does mean that your device has to pass all relevant mains voltage electrical and fire safety tests, which can cost a lot of money. Using an external power brick means that those tests are the responsibility of the power brick manufacturer. For small manufacturers these costs are absolutely not negligible.
The diagram telling you to unplug 2 before one is an absolutely brilliant example of terrible technical writing. I think I will start a collection of the worst examples of instructional documentation starting with this one.
Don't think you understand that diagram. Neither did James. That diagram is the sequence of connecting the power cord. There are four electric pins at Point 1 which could cause problem if you connect Point 2 first then incorrectly connect Point 1. The diagram shows the right order to connect those three sections.
Flair 58 pre-order-era user. The power brick is only annoying only in theory, because after you connect it the 1st time you aren’t disconnecting it and reconnecting it - it’s a one-time thing. I’ve never had a need to disconnect cables & such and this should not hold anyone back from buying. The device is quite well made and very sturdy & looks great in the kitchen. Using it is exceptionally straightforward and cleanup afterwards takes mere seconds. I’m not pulling lots of shots - just one every morning. So switch on the kettle and turn the Flair 58 on high, grind & tamp, and then once I’ve finished breakfast I pull my shot. I usually leave the lever down (draining into a spare cup) and come back to in a bit later to knock out the puck and rinse off everything. I’ll also note the screen is quite easy to clean off - I find a brief rinse on either side for a second or two does the trick. I’d definitely buy this again.
To add to that, even if you need to keep the machine put away, you only have the short cord attached to the brew chamber. I made a semi-hidden space to keep the power brick and control box. All I have to do is take the machine out and make the one attachment. Since I use daily, there is no reason to put everything away.
👍 Confirmed, once you have hidden away the cables behind a counter, the whole setup is nice and clean and does not bother me at all! It is also nice that if turned off - the power brick does indeed draw no voltage, unlike some laptop devices 🤷♂️
I ordered a Flair 58 during the pre-order period earlier this year. Seriously considered getting a Decent, but I personally enjoy the experience of manual espresso making. A few comments from these months of using it: 1. I agree that the controller is a bit awkward and cheap feeling. One stops noticing it after a while, but the rest of the unit feels very nice, and the contrast is surprising. 2. The heating unit stopped working eventually. Flair was extremely responsive and helpful - they originally suspected the controller was bad, but it turned out that the problem was in the brew head itself. Flair sent me a new brew head, and all works now. 3. I find that I need to grind a little finer than normal - unsure as to why. 4. If you're not careful when loading the portafilter, the rubber housing on the brewhead will rotate over time. Not hard to fix, but I've learned to hold onto the brewhead to keep it still when loading (be careful to grab the raised rubber, as the other parts will be uncomfortably hot!) 5. As you mentioned, the acaia scale fits perfectly (though Flair insists this was an accident). I find it pretty convenient, though it is an expensive scale! 6. I would love if they added an auto shutoff to the heating element. Several times I found myself nearly leaving the house with it plugged in. Just to be clear, I love the Flair 58 and would recommend it. There are some things that could be improved though.
Love my little flair, the routine is definitely something I had to embrace….. But I think I’d probably jump to a full on machine rather than upgrade to the 58….
@@hesa_jigalo I love my Gaggia. If they had the option of built-in preinfusion (rather than doing it manually) I would be over the moon. Preinfusion has added a lot of complexity to my espresso, which makes it worth doing every time; despite the fact that manual preinfusion can be a bit of a hassle.
@@OutOfNamesToChoose Are you talking about preinfusion on the Gaggia by letting steam/water out of the steam wand for a while? I've been trying that lately, though honestly I'm not sure if I taste any difference in the shots I'm pulling.
@@chriscase6929 ive found that preinfusion helps the most with light roasts. especially if you wanted to brew as espresso a light roast "intended" for filter brew (some call this "ultra-light roast" for espresso)
It's been exactly a year since RUclips recommended my first James Hoffman video to me (In car coffee makers today vs 1970s), and all I can say is thank you, James, for inspiring this journey of mine into the world of espresso. I've learned so much and made many friends through coffee this past year, and I am very grateful.
Yea, the multiple disconnects and the requirement to disconnect "2" before "1" seems like a clunky user experience. It crosses into electronic fiddly territory that the whole product ethos is trying to avoid.
i stumbled across your channel recently and i have not been able to stop watching. i've developed such an appreciation for coffee that I never would have had without this channel, so i appreciate all the work youve put in to inform your audience about the smallest of details about what makes coffee so cool. cheers!
I suspect the three-piece electrical setup was driven by time-to-market. That box closes to the mains cord is an AC/DC switch-mode power supply. You can buy them pre-designed, and most importantly, pre-certified with UL, ETL, and all the other safety ratings. If you were to pull that power supply into the device itself, you'd have to do some design work to deal with the space constraints, you'd have to deal with the safety issue if having mains in a metal device, and you'd have to do the cert all over again. That said, I think they could have done the controller pretty easily inside the body of the unit, since that is probably just a thermostatic controller that toggles a transistor on and off to drive the DC heating element. There is no mains voltage present on the device itself, which, I guess is nice. If it were me, I would have thickened the body somewhat to make room for the PSU inside, and had a grounded mains plug go directly. (Or better, an IEC connector and separate mains cable). Every electric espresso machine does this, so it can obviously be safe. The cost in time and engineering are probably worth it.
First words: I do not own the unit. By adding the PSU inside they've also needed to have all the possible variations with the cables/voltages. And if there's mains and water mixed in the unit then it needs to have all sort of regulations and certifications to be able to sell. I see this as an easier and cheaper way to get the unit to market. And there's always an option for them to sell the upgraded and more premium controller afterwards. I as an engireer do like that the "brain" sits outside so there's a possibility to tinker/hack it to be better. In theory you could "overpower" the heating element by replacing the controller but if the heat stays up and does not conduct well enough to the portafilter you are just risking the heating element and the components that do not withstand the higher temperatures. And possibly boiling the water inside the chamber during the press. But I would love to see a complete teardown of this machine :P
I expect it comes down to wire size. 85W at 115V is only .75A, a decent wallwart would provide plenty of power. Assuming the heater runs at 24V, there would be 3.5A on the low voltage side. This is a lot of amps, and needs a wire bigger than what most wallwarts have. Remember those laughable chargers for Mac laptops that would get too hot to touch? Also, three power ranges is silly. You are not heating water in the unit, just trying to keep it from cooling down. Just fix the temp at 95C, and adjust water temp as needed.
The power brick / cable mess is a deal breaker for me. I agree that it feels like an engineering after-thought. Next rev, perhaps thermal management will be built-in to the main unit.
I own a Flair Pro 2 and I absolutely love it. I feel like (and really hope) this is something I would teach my own children about espresso, and coffee in general, with and eventually pass down. Im so confident in its construction that I wager it could be used for generations. To me, the 58 completely lacks the hutzpah and stalwart construction that the Pro 2 nailed. The inelegance of the electric components is a real slap in the face to what I perceived to be core principals of Flair. Hence “frustratingly close” I suppose..
I'm a Flair reseller, and have been using the 58 daily since April. I'm usually at medium setting with 98°C water, light-roasted coffee and have been getting very tasty espresso. If you disconnect the main power from the wall outlet first, everything else doesn't really matter that much. With the very first run, there were some issues when people started at the wall outlet first, and plugged in the 4-pin connector close to the unit last. But if you didn't put that one in correctly, you might have risked connecting the wrong voltage to the wrong pins. You can't physically plug it in the wrong way, but trying to do so with the power supply plugged in caused some issues. A small redesign for the second run, and the instructions mentioned in this video took care of that. Flair always respond quickly whenever something comes up like this. The outside power supply and controller are fine for me. The bulky part is off my table, there are no electronics close to a hot brew chamber and water, it's reasonably priced, I think they made the right design decisions. But if you want to point out something 'negative', this is probably the most obvious thing to look at. On the other hand, I don't know of any machine that has temperature stability, preheating and the potential for so many different flow profiles at this price tag. The real step up (in that regard) would be the decent. I'm not sure if the brew chamber heats up more at the top. The thermal imaging I've seen says otherwise. I gues you'll measure cooler as the first part of the shot loses some heat to the basket, coffee and portafilter. And while the puck degrades, temperature rises because everything gets heated up and the hot water flows through the puck easier? I've never done temperature meaurements so I might be wrong. But if you leave it on long enough, the whole 1-piece metal brew chamber should reach an equilibrium temperature, no?
@@MegaKiri11 In the case of an ideal gas (or close-to-ideal), pressure increases temperature. For a incompressible liquid (or close-to-incompressible), this is not the case.
@@jackaw1197 that makes sense, thanks! Can you please explain why my Wacaco Picopresso heats up when I start pumping and increase pressure, but does not heat up so much if I just pour inside some boiling water and close the lid, if liquid does not heat up? Maybe there is also some air trapped inside or maybe more parts come in contact with water when pumping? I don't understand.
@@MegaKiri11 Probably the water chamber is more insulated to maintain temperature, and when the water is pumped through the mechanism it is exposed to more parts which conduct the heat to the outside. But i don't own one of those, so i cant really say for sure.
All of those wires and ugliness of them are what led me to go with the Cafelat Robot. If Flair updates this thing with the ideas you stated in this video for a future model I’d definitely consider one.
My problem with the robot is why I go with Flair. Thermal management when dealing with light roast. And beyond this, workflow (SO MUCH faster than robot) and ease of use (one hand, no need to preheat, no awkward bending over the machine, more room under the portafilter for scale + cup) + the ability to use accessories from any 58mm. FInally, cables are completely hidden behind my station and only the pre-heat device sits nicely next to it. Robot is a great machine, but if you chase perfection, Flair can get you there much much easier
@@ant1.v I don't drink a lot of light roast beans so doesn't apply to me but I'm sure this is the case for people who do. I find the robot really comfy to use though, and the build quality is really great. I don't have issues with space because my scales (small and not v expensive) fit fine with an espresso or cappuccino cup. I also honestly find the flair a bit ugly
@@theoperrin9653 I agree with you on everything (beside the look haha, I also thought the Robot looked just straight up ugly but that's obviously all personal preference!). The Robot is a fantastic machine, proven its worth numerous times over. I had the pleasure to use it many many times, I just personally prefer the flow and overall feel of the Flair. And as someone who works in the industry, there is something really enjoyable being able to play with all my toys at work and on my Flair
It looks like, and is designed like, an after thought. That is what I'm sensing as James' issue.....it's a great idea, but could be done in a much classier way, and the VERY specific process to disconnect, that's described in that crazy assed way, just sinks of 'rushed to market'. It's certainly put me off paying the extra for this, so will stick to the Pro unit until (or if) they sort it out.
I own a 58 v2. Couldn't care less about the disconnect procedure since I never disconnect it. I put it together, put it on my counter, and it has been there as my daily driver ever since. We're not all espresso machine reviewers where we need to rotate a new machine on and off our kitchen counter every week :) One huge thing not touched on in this review is the ease of maintenance. Pretty much any other espresso machine out there, if you need to clean the inside, good luck popping the panel off and doing it yourself. You'll probably bring it to a technician. The 58 is a completely open system, very easy to take apart and clean. Feels pretty revolutionary in that regard. Only two downsides IMO are the power brick / temperature controller feeling cheap (probably Flair will sell an upgrade kit later, I'm sure) and the brew chamber rotating over time which needs to be taken out and re-seated once per week or two. Not a big deal and well worth the enormous savings compared to multi-thousand-dollar machines that are needed to brew a comparable shot.
Honestly I might choose the 58X over this if I were to invest in one. The brew head on these is wider and easily fits on top of a lot of kettles for preheating with steam, so unless you need to pull multiple shots in a row often the electrics don't seem as advantageous over non-electric in practice
I’ve been using the Flair 58 for the past several months, and was using the Flair Pro 2 before that. My experience has been very positive. Thermal management is great whether I am pulling one shot (most mornings) or several shots back to back. I was pre-heating the brew chamber for the Pro 2 atop the lower chamber of a Bialetti Brikka, so this is a huge improvement. I agree with your suggestion for the integration of the heating control module and power adapter into the base and/or stem that comes up from the base. But I think that would also have added to the price of the unit. Let’s see if Flair does that in a future revision, but I imagine the design decisions here reflect a balance between design and price point. Having said all of that, the design is functional. I am brewing with a medium roast, and I’ve played with the water temperature, from 93 to 100, and ended up at 96 C. I am heating the Flair 58 at the highest setting. With regard to pre-heat, I would recommend pre-heating about 10 minutes beyond the point where the Flair 58 beeps (indicating that it has reached the target temperature). This will allow the tamper and basket to also heat up (just remember to have the tamper in place when you turn on the Flair 58 - I can’t tell you how many times I’ve forgotten to do this first thing in the morning). Overall, I am very happy with the Flair 58.
I have a Roc, a Robot, and 2 Flairs. One is the 58. Once I dealt with the wires and the grind, the 58 has become my goto. There are so many other machines on my counter with plugs, it seemed a minor challenge to add its power supply. I have fun with it.
The integrated heater seems cool and all, but honestly my current workflow of using the Flair Signature is just to boil every part of the brew chamber (except for the more plasticky coffee-filled portafilter) in an electric kettle. It's not really much more of a hassle as I grind the coffee and do other stuff. Maybe I'll try this new flair model one day and change my mind though.
@@tommihommi1 which isn't as huge of a hassle, especially since you have to do it anyway to clean the used puck out, fill it back with fresh coffee, etc. It's just a difference in the "last generation" flairs to the 58s, where you actually get a standard 58mm portafilter/brew basket with a handle and not just a more proprietary 49mm portafilter/brew basket that just fits into the whole assembly. Again, like Hoffman said, it seems like it's convenient but the implementation does need to be improved in future iterations (like the whole faff with the cable detachment order thingy and the low-mid-high switch). Honestly I would be interested to see a more capable heater that can preheat the chamber *and* maybe even heat up the water to ≥ 93˚C so it's even more convenient. But yeah, overall an interesting new product from flair.
The "disconnect procedure" sounds like they made a mistake with the electronics and didn't spot it until after a significant portion of the units were made. Probably something as simple as a discharge circuit on the element side. What irks me is that there are innumerable ways this could have been made easier, less clumsy, and more aesthetically pleasing, but it seems like they were too obsessed with maintaining the lines from the Flair design along the spine to want to incorporate a simple control onto it. A small four-point selector knob would have actually looked quite nice on the spine, and maintained the tactile experience of a lever unit. Match the top of the knob in shape (not size), and material to the lever knob, and it would blend in nicely. As it is, it looks like an aftermarket hack. In fact the only upside of the controller being on the cable like an 80s table lamp is that you could probably easily make a replacement that does have a PID control, or at the very least some kind of feedback display (if the controller is going to abandon the sleek lines and simple aesthetic, you might as well lean into it).
It would be more expensive to route the cable trough the body. Also, if they wanted to sell version with and without they would likely need 2 different types of body. This saves money in production.
@@spitfire83 So... don't make one without it? The Flair Pro is right there. Granted it doesn't have the 58mm portafilter, but... so what? Let this stand out for being the powered one. Even if they were dead set on making one with and one without, routing that cable wouldn't require a change of process on building a base model, just an additional part to be added to one line. More expensive than the unpowered? Yes, but so is this, and it would benefit from not looking like someone did it in their shed in an hour with bits they had lying around.
The issue is you're able to force the brewhead side connectors together incorrectly and contact the wrong pins. Its a keyed connector so its hard to do if you're paying attention, but it will burn out the control box if you short those pins while you're plugged into the mains. As long as you are unplugging from the wall first(or plugging into the wall last) theres not a problem. People used to burn out their amplifiers doing the same thing. Don't connect power to an unconnected system. I'd wager the flairs accessibility exacerbates the problem. If you've got a gaggia heating element wired backwards and flow power into it, you're going to have a bad time.
I don't own this product and probably never will but I'm with you James, the disconnect sequence is convoluted. $90 for a heated element that's not temp controlled is too much
You are spot on. The aesthetics and practicality of the power supply is ridiculous especially in some kitchens depending on where the 120 v is situated. Your suggestion of power going in low and control mounted on the machine is what I was thinking. As it stands, it's so bad, I would go with the unpowered version.
Like, who had a kitchen where a power block is convenient to find a place to keep? Youd almost be forced to take it totally to pieces every time. And even then there's a bunch of crap laying on your counter, totally defeating the purpose of a small profile device.
I have the Flair Pro 2 and was very excited about the design of the Flair 58, until I saw that they stepped away from a full manual brewing experience. I don't want a machine that I have to plug into the wall, I want a machine that relies on me to get things "right". It just doesn't seem worth it to upgrade at this point. Great review as always James: I appreciate you voicing your opinions as I tend to share in your disappointments. Cheers!
You made all the points that I made when deciding against buying a Flair 58 a few months ago. For the price, the inconvenient (and ugly) control box bugs me just that little bit too much. The fact that there's an "unplug sequence" is just insane though...
The electronics do look cheap, but from my own espresso machine buying journey I can say the only thing I can remember in this price range is the gaggia classic pro. So really not a lot of great espresso machines at $500. I can see why someone would like and buy this.
James Bond makes coffee with a manual (hand operated) espresso machine in the film 'Live and Let Die' grinds freh beans, drops a shot, adds milk then steams it right in the cup. Then offers it to his boss to drink. AMAZING for 1973
It occurs to me that great coffee technology has existed for a very long time but information was scarce. Even in modern times, most people are only vaguely familiar with the v60, which is literally just a damn funnel.
Just got my Flair 58x and honestly the thermal management isn’t bad. Preheating the brew chamber on my kettle isn’t as tedious as you might think, and plus no cable management involved 😉. Maybe try the 58x James, maybe that workflow is better for you, and definitely better for the aesthetic.
Thank you for the video! I use Flair pro 2 and am stoked on it, but the 58 has a much more attractive (in my view) design, only down side is the 3 piece electrical bit. Now, the 58x seems like a good option, as far as aesthetics go (none of the unsightly grey silicon and no cords). Flair's videos show that the brew chamber fits the Fellow's Stagg, for preheating, very well and the Sinonimo's tamper set has a complementing look. What I am trying to say is: 58x is on my to-eventually-get list, after finding a new home for the pro 2. Thank you for getting me into making espresso at home! You, Lance, and Sprometheus have been great help and inspiration. Cheers!
I’m happy with my basic Flair Neo, I like the ‘ceremony’ of warming up all the component and pressing manually. The whole electric part seems to go against the whole idea. But happy to see the company trying new things…
I have a non electrical version of the 58 and it comes with a rubber base to put the chamber on top of an electric kettle so it preheats it with the steam while boiling water. Works pretty well for me and it produces better espresso than the pro imo
I have a Flair Classic and use it daily. The 58 does indeed look very interesting, and would be a noticeable "upgrade", except that in Australia, you're looking at a titch over a grand for the 58. At that price point, a 2nd hand La Pavoni starts to become more attractive. Hell, for another 600 or so on top, you could go a new La Pavoni and thus not have to worry about a separate kettle, or the confusing series of cable connections.
Price in Australia is ridiculous they are on sale this weekend at a more reasonable price but I already paid a high price for mine that I have not received yet. You are right about other options being more viable here.
I’ve owned the flair58 for a few months now and the “sequence” doesn’t bother me at all because there pretty much is never a need to disconnect the temp controller portion from the flair. I simply disconnect the power brick section whenever I want to transport or make my counter more presentable. I owned the flair pro 2 previously and the temperature control on the 58 is a complete game changer that unlocks the ability to brew lighter roasts + much better/consistent workflow. So it really sucks to see that so many commentators chose to go with other manual machines like the robot because they thought the power supply was too ugly. I’ve used the robot before and it really can’t compare when it comes to consistently pulling great light roast shots. So for anyone who has been dissuaded because of the power brick, please reconsider! It really improved the espresso quality so much!
I keep an eye out on these for a few years now, i still dont think they are at the best point they can be but are constantly improving and I‘m excited to buy one in a few years maybe - once they improve it to the point that its perfect for me which i am certain they will. As for thermal management, I tend to not use gooseneck kettles for filling up another brew chamber as it always loses me about 1-2°C Maybe I‘m just extra picky but if that is something you worry about as much as i do it might be worth it to use a different kettle
I just hopped on here to say I have been watching your channel for a bit and haven't really had the need to change or upgrade to anything featured (besides trying MYLK). I bought a Helor 101 recently, however, and it finally arrived in the mail. After a bit of fumbling to figure out how to properly adjust the grind without accidentally disassembling the burrs, I dialed in what seemed like a good grind. I ran a shot in my trusty espresso machine and... wow. WOW. The difference between what I usually get from my espresso using a cheap burr grinder to the Helor 101 is incredible. Usually I randomly get good crema even with good fresh beans. This time I got a nice THICK crema immediately, with a consistent body from beginning to end of the shot. The taste also highlighted things I was NEVER able to taste in the shot before. Even though it's a big change to go to hand grinding beans, this is such a huge step up that I can't see myself going back. I'll still use the cheap grinder for making course grind for cold brew or iced coffee, but for espresso this is where it's at. Thanks again for giving us coffee peasants the knowledge we need to make good upgrades!
I have a flair pro, and I just attach the metal chamber to my kettle, so that the steam heats it up right before a pulling a shot. It's very effective in terms of preventing heat loss. I currently use the nanofoamer for stretching milk. For the price I would never get the 58, might as well get an actual espresso machine with a steam wand at that point.
I would say that the two dangling boxes are result of engineering decisions that will make it better for the user. That temperature control is something that will be in much cooler environment the further it will be from the heating element (this will increase lifespan) and running on 24V DC not only makes it inherently safer for use near water, but also makes it capable of running off grid (battery or something). Btw that
The disconnection order thing is for the old machines, they had an issue with the connectors used at first that made it possible to cause mispolarisation and break stuff. Since then the connectors have been changed so it doesn't happen anymore.
I have the new Flair 58 and it has the same warning instructions. The cord has an tag instructing you not to disconnect that part first. But for me it’s not a big deal at all.
I have had the Flair Pro for several years. Entirely satisfied, such that I would not consider another machine or upgrading to the 58. Excellent espresso. I find the manual process satisfying, and I love how I can control precisely the pre-infusion and pressure throughout the pull. I have experimented and find that I start with 7 bars and finish closer to 9 for the best results w most coffees for me. And it was $300.
Makes me love my 9barista even more. Not great for multiple shots, but it's the most elegant and consistent little contraption. A pure joy to use once you get the hang of it.
I'm a bit torn with this machine. It is absolutely stunning, and it looks like a lot of fun. But I see flaws why I personally wouldn't buy it. - If I bought one of these, it would also be for the fact that I'd remove one electric device, and having a device that is as simple as possible. So having that heating device would be missing the point. If there is a heating device on my espresso machine, it might as well heat the water property. - The other problem is the price. For the same price, I can get a new Europiccola that will also look good (different, but good), include a boiler, and will allow me to steam milk. But again, it really looks amazing and I'm sure you can get great results with it :)
If you already have a working set up and your counter space is limited then yeah its probably not the most convenient machine to integrate but it has excellent reviews across the board even with its fault so I can't see it being bad. I plan to create my set up with the Flair 58 as the central piece so for me its a no brainer.
James, I've been watching a lot of your videos recently. I picked up my first SCA certified brewer, Ninja Hot and Cold machine. I also picked up two grinders, a Cuisinart electric grinder and a Hario Slim. The brewer and electric grinder I picked up on a really good sale from Kohl's. I'm still dialing in on what I like. However, the difference what I can make now vs what I could make before is night and day. I really want to say thank you for your no nonsense approach to videos. I have learned a lot from you.
For anyone considering to buy it now, they updated the preheating unit. Much better quality than before and without plug order issue. All models including the preheating unit are shipped with the new one, even if their model names haven't been changed. Just be cautious when buying from resellers, because they might still have the old model on stock (unlikely, but who knows). I bought the Flair 58+ a month ago and I'm super happy :)
I think the puck filter could be really handy for keeping the cleaning easier. On a machine in a cafe, the volume is high enough to justify cleaning it very regularly, but at home, the puck could reduce how often you need to fully clean the thing.
I’ve been using the 58 for a few months now it’s tricky to dial in at first as I have to grind finer to get a decent shot. After I hit the spot it’s a great experience to use and it produces great espresso. I have no issue at all about the power supply unit. Just plug it and unplug it never mess with the middle connectors. Cheers!
Hi James, great review! I’ve had the Flair 58 since July (preordered in April) and I got it as I wanted to learn more about espresso. It is really easy to experiment and play around with it compared to espresso machines in this price range (or anything that is less than £1K). For this reason, I think its a really good purchase for anyone that wants to start this (expensive) hobby without breaking the bank and doesn’t want to just get a cup of coffee in the morning (for that, better to go to a local cafe - it supports them, its faster and probably cheaper). The unplugging system of the machine is poorly thought out, I completely agree. However, I only needed to unplug it once since I got it, so I don’t think its a real issue - this machine was not made to be moved around like the other flairs. For most people it will go in their kitchen/bar area and stay there (like a normal espresso machine).
I have the Neo, love it, and love you for bringing it to my attention. As a beginner it fits all the criteria, most importantly being the budget. That being said, I will have to wait on the 58 as it's out of my price range, but love what the company is doing, and very pleased at home with my Neo, making what I think is better coffee than I can buy. Love your work, keep it up!
It was immediately apparent to me that the reason the diagram labeled the 1 and 2 connections the way they did is because you obviously must connect the cables before you’d ever be able to disconnect them, therefore, you connect them in sequence: 1, followed by 2, and then you simply disconnect them in reverse. You can also just disconnect the plug from the mains outlet… so nothing more convoluted than unplugging any other electrical appliance. 🤷🏼♂️ The modularity of the cable is actually beneficial for replacing single components, if necessary, rather than having to replace the whole cable and also having the ability to upgrade the switch module in the future if/when they work out an improvement, which I agree is in order for that component. It all makes good sense to me.
It’s apparent to me that some people might not want multiple large black plastic boxes hanging off a cheap feeling cable. As well one of the big appeals of the Flair is the ease of transport. Having to remember a disconnect sequence to fully breakdown the machine is a con. Not the end of the world, but not an advantage.
@@ryanhlushak7387 I agree the aesthetics of the electrical modules leave a lot to be desired, but to be fair they’ll most likely be kept tucked out of sight. Maybe they’ll offer sleeker upgrades that can just be plugged in due to the modularity of the cable, which is nice. The disconnect sequence is: unplug it from the wall. Done. 😉 Regarding portability, that’s not really the intention of this model, the Pro and lower models are intended to be more portable but this beast is really intended to remain in your kitchen.
@@ryanhlushak7387 I said nothing of fully breaking down the machine, though for whatever purpose you are unplugging it, all you need to know regarding a sequence is to unplug it from the wall. After that the sequence matters not. So, as to whether or not a sequence must be remembered for unplugging the machine, no, simply unplug it from the wall first as you would any other appliance.
Hey James! I preordered this machine in April. The order of plugging/unplugging the machine still bothers me to this day. I give the chamber a thorough clean a couple times a week. I haven’t messed up the order, but I’ve heard doing it the wrong way has the chance of damaging the control unit. I’ve used my unit daily since June, and the controller (though cheap feeling compared to the rest of the machine) has been very pleasant for me. One last note: I learned that the wood portafilter handle is a soft wood. I knocked it a couple times on the rim of a plastic bowl and found I dented the wood! So absolutely use a knock box All in all. Given the choice, I would buy this all over again. Even if I was offered a Rancilio Silva at the same price (which I’ve also used)
I do own one and I find it fun to use. One does not have to push hard at all to get to the 9 bars. I've got sweet tasting shots from it. It is also teaching me how to brew espresso. I don't mind too much the cables and heating connections. It bothers me a little that the hotter water is on top of the brewing chamber, but I've pulled good espresso drinks from it. I am pairing it with the Niche Zero. It's the best brewer I've ever had and I like it much better than any Breville/Sage or any La Pavoni. I also like it better than Gaggia or Silvia Rancilio Pro. I like it better than most semiautomatic machines. I do hope Flair comes up with a much better integrated heating system, though, as you say. However, I do not like the other Flair models. NOTE: I haven't attempted to brew any light roasts with the Flair 58.
I have a signature pro and use it two times per day since 5 years as my first espresso machine and first lever. It's probably the best coffe that I was able to do, I pre heat elements manually and pour the water at a temp of 95° (I probably need to try 100°) and then wash everything. There is some things that I dislike with it : Too much parts, boring to pre-heat, and the most stupid thing : No grip to handle the heating element and the filter-holder. I broke the gauge after using the lever only with 10 bars of pressure at the max, so it's not ethernal, but close to it. I am searching for something else, but 475$ for a manual lever, no thank you. :)
What do you think of the robot? Seems less fiddly, less cleanup, while still top notch shots... That's what I've been struggling to decide.... Robot or flair...
@@YumEspressoYum At the time of buying mine, I considered 3 machine : Flair signature Pro, Robot and the last one Rok espresso. It was a big investment for me so my main consideration what the reliability. The flair have close to no plastic element : Some eternal silicon part but the manometer is in plastic. That is the only part that failed. The rok and robot have some plastic part. I know that rok users have issue with broken parts but don't know much about the cafelat and don't want to speak for something I don't know. To me the biggest things to think about are : - Cleaning process. - Process speed. The flair is not this long to use, but the Kamira (which is not for espresso in any way) is the goto for speed : No pre-heat, brew and put the induction plate at 1000w and you have the coffee in 2 min). - Cost of a cup (16gr for the flair signature, let's be honest… this is a high amount of grain) - Reliability. - Price. The robot is way too much for we with the 300 to 350livre sterling asked. I would take another flair if mine break.
Very helpful and as someone who owns one I definitely agree with the heating element criticism especially on the aesthetics side. I have no idea what to do with it. But I get it as a first generation idea. I expect it will get better over time. All that being said I really like the overall look, I enjoy not needing to boil the brewing components and I can pull multiple shots pretty quickly. Also being able to easily profile because of the length of the lever is really fun. My hope is they find ways to improve the heating system but overall I’m really happy with my first manual espresso maker!
I’ve been using a puck screen for ages on my work-a-day Breville. Anyway, I have a Flair Pro 2, and I love it. My 58 should hopefully arrive soon. I’m looking forward to not (hopefully my Niche arrives soon, too: using Ode with SSP, Option-O Remi, or OE OG hand grinder at the moment).
Hi James. We don't know each other but here's a dream I had: I was hanging out in my kitchen, as we all do, and you came in and asked for a cup of coffee. I was so embarrassed because I only have a simple Nespresso machine and I've seen enough of your videos to know that wouldn't be the best. So I asked you what coffee maker I should use and you just smiled and said "It depends". Then you just left!!! Well I woke up very frustrated (about the coffee!) so now I'm suggesting this: Please do a video where you name a few specific coffee makers that - were you to find them in someone's home where you were visiting - you'd ask for a cup of coffee. The Rules 1. The coffee maker must not cost more than $250 USD 2. The coffee maker must be easy to use and clean - every day 3. There must be very little risk of producing a coffee that would disappoint a guest 4. The maker does not need to produce a particular style of coffee (e.g. espresso or drip is fine) I've seen a LOT of your other reviews, but none of them focus on how you'd react if you found those machines in someone else's home. My dream suggests that this is important.
My ideal implementation would be a separate part that can be connected to the Flair, like a collar that can be detached without affecting the rest of the machine.
I’ve been using it for 2 weeks, it’s my first espresso machine ever and I wanted to make use of my kettle (that I also use for filter coffee) while also being able to pull high quality espresso without spending 3000€ on a machine. I agree on the fact that the electricity block is bulky / takes space. I sometime forget to turn it off for hours too and I don’t know how long it’ll last if it’s heating all day long. All that being said, this machine combined with a niche grinder equals or beats 90% of the coffee shops I’ve been to in my life, and let’s me fuel my caffeine addiction at home and I really love it. The upgraded version also adds a new cool feature : you don’t need to remove the top part attached to the lever to fill the chamber with water. Which means you can pull multiple shots in a row, in like 1 min each including discarding the puck and cleaning the basket. That is very neat. Once preheated you can just go on and on even if you have guests or whatever, while serving great coffee. Of course they’ll make the electronic part smaller or better with time. After all it’s the first time they make them if I’m not mistaken. But overall, it’s freaking awesome and for 500€ you get coffee that, from what I’ve looked at on the internet, you just couldn’t get on an « electric » / « automatic » espresso machine. Also the control you get from the lever / manual system probably leaves ample room for improvement on how one is pulling shots. As a coffee geek, I’m just very happy to play with this. I truly hope it lasts long however (the electric part), and if keeps on delivering these results for years, then I’m a happy customer.
It's so kind of you to link some of the reviews that other RUclipsrs have done on this product. Love your content, and appreciate the knowledge you have to pass on!
I find myself using the flair more than my profitec 500pid. Being able to profile my shots yielded me better results in the cup than I could get with a 9bar machine…even with “stubborn” light roasts.
James, you are making the same mistake you did with the Aeropress video at 1:37. The gauge does give you exactly the pressure in, nothing else, and it works exactly like in a pump machine. The pressure gradient across the puck is always pressure in minus pressure out, and pressure out is always atmospheric pressure, or the coffee would come out explosively. The permeability of the puck governs the flow of coffee (in mass per time per unit area) for a given pressure gradient. Again, look up Darcy Flow for more info on this area of physics and fluid dynamics.
The ad before your video I got was about 7-11 coffee, "guaranteed fresh, 24/7" I know you don't control the ads for your channel, but I found it very amusing to have an advert for gas station coffee on a high quality coffee channel 😀
I made a dual boiler for the 58, and really like it. Here is a link to a video demonstrating it. ruclips.net/video/2kwkHnuwNkI/видео.html I made the video before getting the new flow thru piston. It is too bad you did not get that version to try because it is a significant improvement to workflow. My biggest complaints about the 58 were that it did not heat the water or steam milk. I agree with you completely on their electronics implementation. It was a fantastic idea to add preheat but it is executed poorly. I've wired my dual boiler to power up the flair power block when I turn it on. It is frustrating that it then requires a long press and then multiple presses to set the temperature. It would be far better if it had a 4 position switch off/lo/med/hi or a rotary dial with off and a continuous range of adjustment. Even with my complaints about the power controls aside, I have to say that I feel I am very very close to what I would consider my end game espresso machine. I contacted Flair and showed them a the video demonstration of the dual boiler and asked if they might be interested in collaborating on a commercial implementation. They said positive things about my design, but unfortunately I do not think an implementation will happen anytime soon. Just out of curiosity how do you think a dual boiler flair 58 for $1100 - $1200 usd would stack up against other high end espresso machines?
The Flair 58x (without the power heat) is a much better workflow compared to the regular 58. The base of the water chamber is the same diameter as most of the electric kettles I’ve encountered, and flair includes a gasket such that the chamber can rest on top of the kettle. This is the smoother workflow for me because you don’t have to “pre-heat” the chamber with water like the flair 2, you just let the chamber sit on the kettle to warm up while you’re prepping.
I have a La Pavoni and was thinking exactly the same thing. A Flair Pro would possibly make sense for me, perhaps as a travel companion as unlike the 58 is dissembles easily into its own travel case, but at that price point not sure what this adds. 🤷🏻♂️
The problem I see with a closed boiler machine, is the constant maintance, and the number of electric components (heating and pump). If something breaks its always a hassle to reapair, with the flair just metal could break (or in the 58 the heater), but everything is an easy fix that anyone can do.
@@tommihommi1 how long a ratio do you consider appropriate for ‘modern’ espresso and what’s the capacity of the Flair’s chamber? I agree a spro-over isn’t really viable, but would suggest you couldn’t do that with a Flair either and if I want a longer drink, I can perform a Fellini and introduce more hot water into the brew head without any of the faffing about that would be involved with the Flair. Also agree that with some simple mods temp control is much easier, but in truth with a temp strip on the head and a bit of experience, it’s really not a major issue.
I have the Flair 58 version seen here and i love it!!! I will admit that the cable and control bit does feel a bit like a beta model rather than a full fledged in production product. However i use it everyday and my work flow with it has been fine. The cable disconnect sequence isn't an issue at all since the one you are not supposed to disconnected first is twist locked.
The very external power supply for the heater is good from a serviceability stand point. That is you can access more of the electronics easier where Apple's idea of repairability is replace the motherboard and charge the customer 85% of a new device when all you needed to do was fix the camera and a capacitor
Seems strange to have not integrated the switch / selector to the power brick, though I guess it allows buying a standard power brick (looks like an old laptop's, as it seems huge for 85W, the PSU-side of the controller cable also looks like a pretty standard 2-pin PSU plug). Still, seems like an odd place to cheap up on.
Besides the excellent reason given above, integrating the controls into a very large brick becomes even more inconvenient. You could theoretically get the brick out of your way (as James does in the video) and have only the small control to need to fiddle with.
I was one of the first who got the product in Europe through an official resellers, living in a very small flat with tight space restraints and only needing to do espresso this fit the bill in so many ways. It had the 58mm that I have gotten accustomed to from allot of other machines, another reason was the preheating and that I could skip the annoying water preheating I tried on others that I found annoying. That said I agree with most of what you described, the need for using the highest setting and using the hottest water possible with light roasts that I prefer and enjoy. The execution of the electronic is not just ugly, clumsy and bad but it goes completely against the design aesthetic of the machines. In my view you could not possibly come up with a worse execution, also In my view at least you could just remove the different settings and then just have it preheat up to the highest, this would remove the second part and it would not remove anything from the machines functionality as the lower settings does not add anything, you would be better off just using 1-3 degree C lower on the kettle if you needed to brew at lower temperature, I simply cannot see a reason for different settings on a preheating device I just can’t. Also I’m not a huge fan of their planned systematic obsolescence approach or if your more polite planned upgrades. I have from the begging an odd feeling that the heater Is designed this way because they want to upgrade it down the line, I might be proven wrong but it would kinda make sense. Negative point aside, it dos make wonderful espresso when the fundamental is right and I don’t feel like I’m missing out compared to the numerous prosumer and pro machines I used and tried. You would have to pay a decent amount to get something decently better (get the hint). But it dos requires a learn curve to get use too a completely manual lever, especially if your only used pump or spring levers before as I have. But it’s been a pleasant trip and you do learn more about the more hands on approach, and the feedback from the lever that you don’t usually experienced with modern day machines is just a wonderful experience.
Desktop PCs have the same disconnect sequence - Off at the mains first, then pull out the cable. It's so that the capacitors discharge to ground as you suspected.
We've heard about Mr. Hoffmann's large hands quite a few times at this point. I believe I'm not the only one looking forward to see metric measurements of these well caffeinated and nicely caffeinating pieces of his precious equipment. Including them gramms, not only milimeters. Or maybe he may do some blueprints or even some plaster casts for Patreon or for limited edition sale. Weird idea but I'm interested to see how many people would like it. How many blueprints of hands have you seen in your life? P.S. It's not my fault your channel attracts weird-in-hopefully-a-nice-way people, James.
Jon, maybe they are trying to re-create the vinyl experience on the bottom of the puck. James is a great guy helping to expose us to new experiences &so are you. Over time I have simplified my coffee procedure. Moccamaster used like a pour over gives an exceptional cup with great beans. Simple and consistent.
Weird. I feel like I’m listening in the 80’s. If I could only get Hoffman to dial in my coffee and Darko to dial in my audio, I’d be able to sleep at night.
The big question though is: do you need one of those fancy weights you use on your stereo equipment to keep the power supply from pulling the unit of your counter? Audiophile coffee for the win! Love your channel BTW.
Upgraded to the 58 from the Signature during summer preorder, and have no regrets. My own solution for the bulky electronics was to hang them on my refrigerator abutting the counter where I brew, and it really doesn't look bad. The sequence instructions are indeed convoluted, but all they're attempting to say is, "never connect/disconnect (1) live." I wouldn't let these gripes be a deal breaker if you're in the market for any sort of fine espresso machine. Still worth one less large chore of maintenance, as well as the peace of mind exclusively troubleshooting human error instead of a complex appliance's whims.
Glad someone has finally said it. I've seen so many 'reviews' which just say how amazing this thing is yet for the price and a mass produced product that power supply looks like the most janky heath Robinson way of doing it
12:59 OMG i did the complete opposite ! I’ve been disconnecting it daily the wrong way ! I have this paper its in my flair package, but i was sure being right all that time, so a pretty much good example of confused costumer ( and stupid i give you that) but when you think you are doing something well you do not ask yourself if it’s actually good or not. I do not have any issue with my group head today, so way doing it that way ? What do i risk with my machine ?
You're able to contact the wrong pins on the brewhead side connection even though its a keyed connector. If you're plugged into the wall and do this, the controller shorts out. Not an issue if you're always plugging into the wall last, or unplugging from the wall first.
ever since the Flair 58 announced/came out I have been waiting for you to make this video!! I have the original Flair 58 and I absolutely love it. I had a Flair Signature and at some point would have probably upgraded to a dual boiler machine had the 58 not come out. For someone like me who makes maybe 2-3 shots a day it's perfect. relatively low maintenance, makes fantastic espresso. workflow is markedly improved compared to Flair Signature/Pro 2 namely in regards to preheating and pulling back to back shots. there are some qualms i have with it like finding a scale will underneath that isn't the Acaia Lunar, having to purge the remaining water. I honestly don't mind the cheap plastickly looking AC adapter as it's something I can just hide behind my coffee bar. I know some of the other commenters on this video have the updated version of the 58 with the different valve plunger but IMO i don't think it's that much of a hassle to remove the pressure gauge/stem to fill water however I do find it annoying when the plunger disc rotates inside the water chamber and you have to pull it ouit and realign. Really enjoyed the review video and I hope you have a great day!
What happened to the pro and cons of using the screen? 🤔 thought it was coming later in the video🙃. I wonder why it's only helpful in home setups and not in cafes
Thanks for the shout, friend. Great video, as per usual.
I’ve owned the Flair 58 for about 3 weeks and I’m very happy with the results I’ve been getting. While not particularly aesthetic, I’m pleased with the “outboard” heating element. “Why”?
For the last 30 years I’ve owned a series of quality espresso machines... each of which required a repair or two at some point. I’ve grown tired of the hassle of the inevitable repairs, any of which could end up still having a lingering and perplexing malfunction.
My last espresso machine needed about $500 in parts to repair. I decided I’d rather spend the money on the Flair 58. The reviews were very positive and the design is dirt simple; no complex wiring and plumbing to go wrong.
In use, the “where am I supposed to disconnect” is easily determined and something I never need to do. Yes, the heating arrangement could be made more aesthetic if integrated into the body of the 58, but then we’re back to the same problems I’m trying to avoid! If the electrical fails, it’s easily diagnosed and replaced.... and for me, that’s beautiful.
To me it's very odd that they went with something as complex as a switching power supply (thereby requiring the separate power brick) for something as simple as a heating element with a few low precision settings. You could easily produce a simple heating element with basic analog control circuitry that has the same behavior as the one they show here and skips the separate brick, plus you would remove the dual plug problem. Sure, it would require more expensive development, but for $90 a unit skimping on something like that is pretty ridiculous (my best guess is they designed it the way they did to avoid the hassle of putting higher voltages into their product, which would likely require more expensive development and certification. As it is they probably just bought the power brick and control unit from someone else and threw it in).
As for reparability (which is a very valid concern), this change would have no impact on that, as it could be done in the same style as the existing implementation, placing all the control circuitry on the outside and only having wires inside the unit.
Source: I'm an electrical engineer
@@danielfay8963 you make it and we’ll buy it please 🙏
Aesthetic doesn't mean you have to own an automatic espresso machine that looks beautiful. Espresso machine was made because no one was smart enough to think of a manual one of a design that works, and the materials to make a manual espresso contraption was probably impossible back in the day. There's no such thing as aesthetic anything. But well, humans are picky anyway.
500$ repair? My gaggia is
They could design easily-repairable integrated wiring and circuitry. They just didn’t.
After a long personal research and personal budget constraints, I decided to purchase the Flair 58 when it was open for pre-order. Basically, esprrsso machines that I really wanted were exceedingly out of my budget. I've been using the Flair 58 since early July and have also just receive the Valve Plunger upgrade last month. To be honest, the electrical pre-heat is a feature that to me is very convenient and saves me a lot of time. I have very limited work space and it helps cut down my work flow just a little conveniently. I'm not a coffee expert amd I would assume that most people would not tell the difference in a couple of degrees difference in temperature as described by James. But I have always used water off the boil anyways as I tend to prefer lighter roasts. The valve plunger upgrade also provides me with a faster work flow when I'm making back to back shots for guests at home. I would say my most frustrating points are:
1. Managing a stable pressure can be difficult and by the 3rd to 4th back to back shot, you'll definitely feel it in you upper arms. On the bright side, it's a good workout.
2. The valve/piston tends to misalign after a week or 2 use and you'll have to realign them again by using the temperature gauge to twist them.
3. Finding the right grind size for your roast can be some sort of a challenge during my first couple of months use. Inconsistent pressure will cause you to second guess your grind size. Also, I find the Flair 58 tends to lean to slightly finer grind size than usual and as also reported by other Flair 58 users.
Overall, I have no regrets getting the Flair 58 and it has been my daily driver since early July. 😊
I second all of this. I bought the same unit, at the same time, for the same reason. The power controller really doesn't play a significant role in my daily use. It works well, it heats up quickly and I like the littke beep sound it makes.
The piston spinning inside the brewhead is a bit annoying and can be tricky to turn it back. But that doesn't happen too often.
Warning: You need at least a Niche Zero for this espresso machine because it likes really fine grinds. My niche is turned off the scale to get it fine enough.
Overall, I love my Flair and use it everyday.
Yup. To add, I use an Eureka Mignon Perfetto dialed all the way down to usually around 1.25-1.5 for the Flair 58. I use the Perfetto as it makes life a little easier when I interchange with pour over methods. And no, I can't afford to types of specialised grinders. 🥲
I'm not in that boat, i'm in the "i want a good coffee grinder" boat.
So every time I watch his video's, he sticks that Niche in there, and after time and research, I decided thats the giant counter paperweight i need for 1000 dollars to grind my coffee. hahaha.
Really glad to finally know I’m not the only one having to use such a fine grind size on the niche for the flair 58
@@williambaker7181 I use a sette 270 with ease and it’s not even shimmed.
"You'll be brewing in the 80's. " Time travel at this price point, we've come so far.
Underrated comment
This is what goes through my mind every time he references temperature 😂
Get a coffee, get a mullet for free!
Hope no Rose rescues her father during the trip...
Brewin' in the 80's
Is a new way I like to be
I'm just brewin' in the 80's
Come on, baby, run to me
ruclips.net/video/XCiDuy4mrWU/видео.html
i like how he's so brutally honest but also very constructive to the manufacturers. that adapter bundle really does look like nuisance to manage and i personally think it kills the overall minimal aesthetic.
How true! These machines end up in arguably beautiful homes and end up being aesthetic pieces that are a joy to look at. That whole adapter cable thing seems like an afterthought and ruins the entire product appeal to be honest.
I love how James is willing to fuss around with all kinds of obscure variables related to coffee, but unplugging two things is just too much.
The unplug instructions make the whole thing a write-off. Whomever approved the power supply and heating element for this shouldn't be working in consumer goods. Looks like a great device for people collecting patreon money and making youtube videos.
@@espressomatic Whoever*
Edit: To forestall yet more responses with people being wrong, here's an explanation of when to use "who" vs. "whom."
"Who" is used to refer to the subject of a sentence.
"Whom" should be used to refer to the object of a verb or preposition.
Unfortunately this doesn't help you at all if you aren't a huge English grammar nerd who remembers what subjects, objects, and prepositions are. (I assume most people remember that verbs are "doing words.") Luckily I, a huge English grammar nerd, am here to tell you what they are. I even brought my ugly glasses with tape holding them together in the middle.
But first, a shortcut: try replacing "who/whom" with "he/him." If "he" sounds right, use "who." If "him" sounds right, use "whom." Let's look at the original sentence: "He approved the power supply" / "Him approved the power supply." A native English speaker automatically recognizes that "he" is correct here, which means you should use "who." This is easy to remember because "him" and "whom" both end in "m."
Now, the subject of a sentence is the a noun that is doing or being something. "I am outside." -> the subject is "I". "The cat is playing." -> the subject is "the cat." In the sentence "Whomever [sic] approved the power supply," the subject is "whomever." Of course it should be "whoever" since they are the subject of the sentence.
The object is... well, let's do prepositions first. A preposition is a word or phrase (but usually a very short, common word) that shows direction, time, location, place, spatial relationships, or... I forget what else. Examples are "at," "to," "for," "in"/"into," "during," etc. You may have heard that you aren't supposed to end a sentence with a preposition, but that's not correct. It IS correct in Latin, and many Latin grammar rules do apply in English, but this isn't one of them.
The object is a noun that is affected by a verb or proposition. In our example sentence, "Whoever approved the power supply and heating element for this," there are two objects: the power supply and heating elements, both of which are affected by the verb "approved."
Now, for an example of correct usage of "whom": "At whom is John angry?" First, identify the verb: "angry." That makes identifying the rest of the parts easy. The subject is the person who is "doing" the verb: in this case, John is angry. The object is the person affected by the verb, and since we don't know what person John is angry at, we write "whom."
I spent about a half hour writing that so I damn well better not get any more responses with nonsense like "actually both are just fine" or "whom is the more grammatically correct version." Of course now that I've painted an enormous target on my back I'm confident that everyone who reads this comment in its entirety will do exactly that just to mess with me. It's alright; I'd do the same thing in your place.
@@Oberon4278 both are equally suitable terms
@@Oberon4278 Whomever is actually more grammatically appropriate for that sentence.
@@jordananderson2728 It is, in fact, not at all correct. I don't know how you can be so confidently incorrect, especially when you can just look it up in about twenty seconds on Google.
James is endlessly fascinating to watch, he's so earnest, I love it. I have zero interest in buying any of this stuff, but I would watch these videos forever.
Just to be clear you are watching him not the reviews? So he could review spandex pants and if he delivers like this you would watch??? I might too LOL...
I don't fully agree with his opinion here and think he is being overly sensitive about certain aspects of this. He knows more than I do but some of his grips is aesthetic in a way that anyone wanting this is not going to care about at all.
and the second I say this I take some back. He makes both pro and con arguments successfully I think. I just had to watch the video at 2x speed then it made sense. Video could have said all this in 12 min or 10 and still have his charm :)🍮
I am buying one of these after going back and forth on it and eventually some insane lever machine down the road that is almost impossible to use just for the challenge.
I appreciate the thought, research, testing and attention to the details ... similar sentiments when watching you too, Jack.
@@xjbladderx You wrote a two page long comment yet complain how long the video is 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Me too. I don't even like coffee, but I find the coffee technology and taste testing very interesting.
James, you are so good at explaining complicated subjects and its clear you love what you do. Very fascinating to watch you nerd out on something so many people take for granted every day.
I have owned the October 21 edition for a few weeks now and I love it. The heat gauge doesn't play much of a role in my workflow. It heats up quickly. And it gives you incredible control over pressure and flow. It definitely teaches you why espresso is hard to perfect when you don't have this level of control. I can feel the integrity of the puck through the resistance in the lever. Its an amazing little machine. And with all the other bits in place (nice grinder, you need the fancy kettle, the scales etc) its really quite a nice workflow. I enjoy using it and it can rattle off shots fairly quickly.
I run a small cafe and have been using Flair 58 paired with nanofoamer for my espresso based drinks for the last 3 months. My volume is around 20 cups a day and flair 58 has been perfect for me. It saved me a lot of money since it gives me great back to back shots at this price point. Plus people really appreciate it's looks and the workflow looks very interesting for someone waiting for their cup.
Though it does have a bit of a learning curve to make consistent shots and I struggled initially with finding the right grind size and dosage.
Overall it hasn't bothered me much during last 3 months and I had the brew chamber replaced once which was pretty smooth as well.
Why use it? It's a waste of time.
You can do the same thing but automated and much faster with modern machines.
@@matthijskkr It's cheaper to operate (and replace) and takes up less space and requires less maintenance than your "modern machines". Said modern machines which are just plastic variations on manual hardware.
@@leudast1215 cheaper to operate? Yeah because you'll save 5 bucks a month in power maybe
As you can see in the video, it takes up a ton of space
Manual hardware is slow, that is why we have machines. Making coffee like in this video on a large scale is a waste of time and resources
@@matthijskkr excuse me sir, OP said 20 shots a day. How will a automatic machine help you be more efficient when you don’t even have that many orders to go with?? Im confused
@@henryt9731 It doesn't matter how small the amount of shots you make are. If it costs a lot of time to operate the machine, then it costs money, because you might as well do something else (for example: making another coffee at the same time for another customer)
Stuck in an airport after a storm and missing a connecting flight. James' soothing voice and knowledge is the calm and distraction I need right now.
Good luck getting where you need to go! Safe travels!
@@jameshoffmann Wow, a reply from the Dude! I am very honoured 😊 Your kindness always shines through, I have enjoyed watching your channel grow. It is well deserved.
I have been owning a Flair58 v2 for a week now and here are my observations:
1. It's sad that you didn't get the chance to test the new version, because the new workflow is really smooth. The fact that I don't need to remove the pressure gauge all the time is a big plus of the new workflow in my opinion.
2. I agree with you, James, that the power brick is horribly big and ugly, it doesn't fit on my counter at all. I really hope they will come up with something smaller and more integrated, and something that I can ideally buy as an upgrade of the machine I have now. My hypothesis is that in these times of supply chain issues, they went for the easiest and more modular solution to be able to ship to more countries as possible (after all those component look like old laptop chargers, so they must be very easy to build.)
Also, thanks for pointing out the plug diagram, I didn't know the order was important (I wonder if that's true in v2 as well).
3. I am sorry that you are not keeping it for longer. As a Flair 58 owner, I would have surely enjoyed more tips and tricks from you in the future.
4. The biggest selling point of this machine to me was how easy it is to maintain, which you didn't touch on much in the review. And the machine really didn't disappoint me when it comes to that. I have pulled ~10 shots so far, and it's as clean as it was in the beginning, without me doing anything.
How do you feel about the water funnel thingy on the v2? I have a v2 as well but I've found that to be frustrating to the point where I've just removed it. It never really stayed in place anyway (if you have the lever down all the way when not using the machine then the stem on the pressure gauge pushes it out of the way) and softens up even more when the machine is heated to the point where it's floppy and awkward. Also makes it harder to see into the chamber and know how much water I've added. The whole thing seems poorly designed.
Fortunately I also have a gooseneck kettle and have found that you can add water just fine without the funnel so I've just removed it completely.
@@kevadu OK, here is a funny story. One hour ago, probably at the same time while you were typing your message, I grabbed that funnel rubber thingy and threw it away to the trash can, as a gesture of frustration. I always make short shots anyway (14-15g max), and never fill the chamber to the point where I needed that funnel thingy. So yeah, I agree with you :)
Btw, I noticed that in the 58x the funnel thing is a one-piece with the rest of the chamber rubber sleeve. I wonder why they haven't designed it this way for the 58 as well.
Just 10 shots.
@@servicesupport4871 yeah, I know, very few, it's been only one week. I still believe maintainance is going to be easy after many more shots as well though.
Can't wait for v3. Or maybe v4
One thing to consider regarding the Power Supply. Having it externally is actually great in terms of repairabillity.
If the power supply was internal and it fails you would need to return the entire machine instead of just getting a new power supply.
Could they have designed it better? Certainly! But I actually prefer having it outside the unit.
I have a flair 58 at home and the power supply is not an issue. The cables are long enough you can easily hide the whole thing below or behind a countertop.
The T° control box could be prettier and better designed for the price tho.
I am 100% all for repairability. I'd rather have repairability first in most cases. But repairability doesn't require compromise. If that were the reasoning behind this design, I'd chalk that up to laziness more than anything. Repairability wouldn't decrease by having the housing mated to the apparatus. There are a myriad of ways to mate it to the chassis of the press housing while maintaining repairability. Additionally, having it more contained improves the ergonomics of it, and makes the whole thing a bit safer.
When I look at the electronics they've designed here it looks either lazy, inexperienced, cost-saving, or all of the above.
I can understand if their desire was to set it up this way for aesthetic purposes, as a call back to 80's electronics. But you can still stylize the housing in that manner and still mate it to the chassis. Ultimately, there are reasons why we don't design and ship electronics like this anymore.
@@JosephDalrymple yep, you can still have it internal, and for instance and plug in using a standardized DC plug, in case you can't buy the internal anymore, just buy an equivalent external one with the same DC plug
With some simple tinkering you could technically easily replace almost every internal power supply, they could just make it doable by anyone though with next to no cost to the manufacturer
I don't think he was referring to incorporating the power supply on the machine, just the separate control box. Could still keep an external power supply but would be a much cleaner and more convenient setup.
As-is it reminds me of the lamps that have the switch on the cord, I find I'm always reeling cord up from behind the couch or table to find the switch. The low-med-high selection being right on the unit would be much nicer.
As an electronics repairsman, i can tell that usually external power bricks are a lot worse to repair than internal power supplies. In general, you can crack them open in a bench vise, but it is near impossible to getting it together again in a tidy way. They are also often designed in a more cramped way, making repairs harder. For instance, usually the heat sinks are soldered into place and are covering the whole top and bottom of the housing. Desoldering a heat sink is very hard.
It is not impossible to deliver something with a repairable power brick, but it is incredibly rare to see one that's repairable. That said, certain power bricks are very reliable - i'm thinking of the stuff Dell delivered with their D610-E6410-E5530 series of laptops.
To keep with the coffee stuff, the Philips Senseo coffee machines have built in power supplies for their low voltage stuff. A certain capacitor always fails (a X2 self healing capacitor losing capacit
It is trivial to fix for any standard repair shop. About a 30 minute job.
Yes, you gotta bring the whole machine to the repair shop, but it's easier to repair than an external power brick which will likely just be thrown away and replaced by a new one - which just adds to the electronics waste pile. That's not a repair.
The reason why it uses a power supply at all, is probably just to keep the development cost low. There is no reason at all to run a heating element on low voltage, technically. This thing could run just fine right on a mains socket. A triac dimmer circuit for the temperature setting, with a toggle switch for low/med/high or a knob for continuous control, can either be integrated into the base (they really are small!) or into the mains lead like a lamp cord dimmer. You need a LOT better isolation for the element which might make it look a bit bulkier, but all in all it can totally be done without damaging the sleek looks too much.
However, this does mean that your device has to pass all relevant mains voltage electrical and fire safety tests, which can cost a lot of money. Using an external power brick means that those tests are the responsibility of the power brick manufacturer.
For small manufacturers these costs are absolutely not negligible.
The diagram telling you to unplug 2 before one is an absolutely brilliant example of terrible technical writing. I think I will start a collection of the worst examples of instructional documentation starting with this one.
Probably written by the person who designed it. They did it with assembly in mind not disassembly.
Don't think you understand that diagram. Neither did James. That diagram is the sequence of connecting the power cord. There are four electric pins at Point 1 which could cause problem if you connect Point 2 first then incorrectly connect Point 1. The diagram shows the right order to connect those three sections.
@@jameschang8174 And thus they should have had a separate drawing for disconnecting, with the parts ordered 1 and 2.
@@jameschang8174 It doesn't matter if the diagram is technically correct. If a large number of people misinterpret it then its a bad diagram.
It doesn’t matter anymore which this vidya failed to mention.
Flair 58 pre-order-era user. The power brick is only annoying only in theory, because after you connect it the 1st time you aren’t disconnecting it and reconnecting it - it’s a one-time thing. I’ve never had a need to disconnect cables & such and this should not hold anyone back from buying. The device is quite well made and very sturdy & looks great in the kitchen. Using it is exceptionally straightforward and cleanup afterwards takes mere seconds. I’m not pulling lots of shots - just one every morning. So switch on the kettle and turn the Flair 58 on high, grind & tamp, and then once I’ve finished breakfast I pull my shot. I usually leave the lever down (draining into a spare cup) and come back to in a bit later to knock out the puck and rinse off everything. I’ll also note the screen is quite easy to clean off - I find a brief rinse on either side for a second or two does the trick. I’d definitely buy this again.
To add to that, even if you need to keep the machine put away, you only have the short cord attached to the brew chamber. I made a semi-hidden space to keep the power brick and control box. All I have to do is take the machine out and make the one attachment. Since I use daily, there is no reason to put everything away.
👍 Confirmed, once you have hidden away the cables behind a counter, the whole setup is nice and clean and does not bother me at all! It is also nice that if turned off - the power brick does indeed draw no voltage, unlike some laptop devices 🤷♂️
Not everyone’s kitchen is setup to keep the Flair 58 plugged in all the time - mine certainly wouldn’t facilitate that.
I ordered a Flair 58 during the pre-order period earlier this year. Seriously considered getting a Decent, but I personally enjoy the experience of manual espresso making. A few comments from these months of using it:
1. I agree that the controller is a bit awkward and cheap feeling. One stops noticing it after a while, but the rest of the unit feels very nice, and the contrast is surprising.
2. The heating unit stopped working eventually. Flair was extremely responsive and helpful - they originally suspected the controller was bad, but it turned out that the problem was in the brew head itself. Flair sent me a new brew head, and all works now.
3. I find that I need to grind a little finer than normal - unsure as to why.
4. If you're not careful when loading the portafilter, the rubber housing on the brewhead will rotate over time. Not hard to fix, but I've learned to hold onto the brewhead to keep it still when loading (be careful to grab the raised rubber, as the other parts will be uncomfortably hot!)
5. As you mentioned, the acaia scale fits perfectly (though Flair insists this was an accident). I find it pretty convenient, though it is an expensive scale!
6. I would love if they added an auto shutoff to the heating element. Several times I found myself nearly leaving the house with it plugged in.
Just to be clear, I love the Flair 58 and would recommend it. There are some things that could be improved though.
Love my little flair, the routine is definitely something I had to embrace….. But I think I’d probably jump to a full on machine rather than upgrade to the 58….
I loved my flair, but recently got a gaggia classic pro and I'm never looking back xD
@@hesa_jigalo I love my Gaggia. If they had the option of built-in preinfusion (rather than doing it manually) I would be over the moon. Preinfusion has added a lot of complexity to my espresso, which makes it worth doing every time; despite the fact that manual preinfusion can be a bit of a hassle.
@@OutOfNamesToChoose Are you talking about preinfusion on the Gaggia by letting steam/water out of the steam wand for a while? I've been trying that lately, though honestly I'm not sure if I taste any difference in the shots I'm pulling.
@@chriscase6929 ive found that preinfusion helps the most with light roasts. especially if you wanted to brew as espresso a light roast "intended" for filter brew (some call this "ultra-light roast" for espresso)
@@chriscase6929 Yes, that's what I mean. It worked better for me once I started grinding finer, as otherwise the preinfusion stage was far too short.
It's been exactly a year since RUclips recommended my first James Hoffman video to me (In car coffee makers today vs 1970s), and all I can say is thank you, James, for inspiring this journey of mine into the world of espresso. I've learned so much and made many friends through coffee this past year, and I am very grateful.
That "integrated heater" and cables look like someone just modded it, rather than an official product
I think it was designed so that you can easily pass the cables into holes or similar so you can hide the parts.
Yea, the multiple disconnects and the requirement to disconnect "2" before "1" seems like a clunky user experience. It crosses into electronic fiddly territory that the whole product ethos is trying to avoid.
There should be no need for electricity, just boiling water.
i stumbled across your channel recently and i have not been able to stop watching. i've developed such an appreciation for coffee that I never would have had without this channel, so i appreciate all the work youve put in to inform your audience about the smallest of details about what makes coffee so cool. cheers!
I suspect the three-piece electrical setup was driven by time-to-market. That box closes to the mains cord is an AC/DC switch-mode power supply. You can buy them pre-designed, and most importantly, pre-certified with UL, ETL, and all the other safety ratings. If you were to pull that power supply into the device itself, you'd have to do some design work to deal with the space constraints, you'd have to deal with the safety issue if having mains in a metal device, and you'd have to do the cert all over again.
That said, I think they could have done the controller pretty easily inside the body of the unit, since that is probably just a thermostatic controller that toggles a transistor on and off to drive the DC heating element.
There is no mains voltage present on the device itself, which, I guess is nice.
If it were me, I would have thickened the body somewhat to make room for the PSU inside, and had a grounded mains plug go directly. (Or better, an IEC connector and separate mains cable). Every electric espresso machine does this, so it can obviously be safe. The cost in time and engineering are probably worth it.
No reason they couldn't build said power supply into a nicer-looking box and still have 1 easy cable connection to the back like James said, though.
Agree.
First words: I do not own the unit.
By adding the PSU inside they've also needed to have all the possible variations with the cables/voltages. And if there's mains and water mixed in the unit then it needs to have all sort of regulations and certifications to be able to sell. I see this as an easier and cheaper way to get the unit to market. And there's always an option for them to sell the upgraded and more premium controller afterwards.
I as an engireer do like that the "brain" sits outside so there's a possibility to tinker/hack it to be better. In theory you could "overpower" the heating element by replacing the controller but if the heat stays up and does not conduct well enough to the portafilter you are just risking the heating element and the components that do not withstand the higher temperatures. And possibly boiling the water inside the chamber during the press. But I would love to see a complete teardown of this machine :P
I expect it comes down to wire size.
85W at 115V is only .75A, a decent wallwart would provide plenty of power.
Assuming the heater runs at 24V, there would be 3.5A on the low voltage side. This is a lot of amps, and needs a wire bigger than what most wallwarts have. Remember those laughable chargers for Mac laptops that would get too hot to touch?
Also, three power ranges is silly. You are not heating water in the unit, just trying to keep it from cooling down. Just fix the temp at 95C, and adjust water temp as needed.
The power brick / cable mess is a deal breaker for me. I agree that it feels like an engineering after-thought. Next rev, perhaps thermal management will be built-in to the main unit.
I own a Flair Pro 2 and I absolutely love it. I feel like (and really hope) this is something I would teach my own children about espresso, and coffee in general, with and eventually pass down. Im so confident in its construction that I wager it could be used for generations. To me, the 58 completely lacks the hutzpah and stalwart construction that the Pro 2 nailed. The inelegance of the electric components is a real slap in the face to what I perceived to be core principals of Flair. Hence “frustratingly close” I suppose..
I'm a Flair reseller, and have been using the 58 daily since April. I'm usually at medium setting with 98°C water, light-roasted coffee and have been getting very tasty espresso.
If you disconnect the main power from the wall outlet first, everything else doesn't really matter that much. With the very first run, there were some issues when people started at the wall outlet first, and plugged in the 4-pin connector close to the unit last. But if you didn't put that one in correctly, you might have risked connecting the wrong voltage to the wrong pins. You can't physically plug it in the wrong way, but trying to do so with the power supply plugged in caused some issues. A small redesign for the second run, and the instructions mentioned in this video took care of that. Flair always respond quickly whenever something comes up like this.
The outside power supply and controller are fine for me. The bulky part is off my table, there are no electronics close to a hot brew chamber and water, it's reasonably priced, I think they made the right design decisions. But if you want to point out something 'negative', this is probably the most obvious thing to look at. On the other hand, I don't know of any machine that has temperature stability, preheating and the potential for so many different flow profiles at this price tag. The real step up (in that regard) would be the decent.
I'm not sure if the brew chamber heats up more at the top. The thermal imaging I've seen says otherwise.
I gues you'll measure cooler as the first part of the shot loses some heat to the basket, coffee and portafilter. And while the puck degrades, temperature rises because everything gets heated up and the hot water flows through the puck easier?
I've never done temperature meaurements so I might be wrong. But if you leave it on long enough, the whole 1-piece metal brew chamber should reach an equilibrium temperature, no?
Temperature absolutely does increase with pressure, basic physics.
@@MegaKiri11 In the case of an ideal gas (or close-to-ideal), pressure increases temperature. For a incompressible liquid (or close-to-incompressible), this is not the case.
@@jackaw1197 that makes sense, thanks! Can you please explain why my Wacaco Picopresso heats up when I start pumping and increase pressure, but does not heat up so much if I just pour inside some boiling water and close the lid, if liquid does not heat up? Maybe there is also some air trapped inside or maybe more parts come in contact with water when pumping? I don't understand.
@@MegaKiri11 Probably the water chamber is more insulated to maintain temperature, and when the water is pumped through the mechanism it is exposed to more parts which conduct the heat to the outside. But i don't own one of those, so i cant really say for sure.
All of those wires and ugliness of them are what led me to go with the Cafelat Robot. If Flair updates this thing with the ideas you stated in this video for a future model I’d definitely consider one.
If I was inclined to take the plunge into espresso, I would probably start with the robot.
The robot is lovely, my first and hopefully last machine
My problem with the robot is why I go with Flair. Thermal management when dealing with light roast. And beyond this, workflow (SO MUCH faster than robot) and ease of use (one hand, no need to preheat, no awkward bending over the machine, more room under the portafilter for scale + cup) + the ability to use accessories from any 58mm. FInally, cables are completely hidden behind my station and only the pre-heat device sits nicely next to it. Robot is a great machine, but if you chase perfection, Flair can get you there much much easier
@@ant1.v I don't drink a lot of light roast beans so doesn't apply to me but I'm sure this is the case for people who do. I find the robot really comfy to use though, and the build quality is really great. I don't have issues with space because my scales (small and not v expensive) fit fine with an espresso or cappuccino cup. I also honestly find the flair a bit ugly
@@theoperrin9653 I agree with you on everything (beside the look haha, I also thought the Robot looked just straight up ugly but that's obviously all personal preference!). The Robot is a fantastic machine, proven its worth numerous times over. I had the pleasure to use it many many times, I just personally prefer the flow and overall feel of the Flair. And as someone who works in the industry, there is something really enjoyable being able to play with all my toys at work and on my Flair
the clumsy design of that heater unit is like snatching defeat from the jaws of victory
I've used it for a year and never had an issue
It doesn't effect the usage unless you take it apart regularly. But if you do that, you just choose a different machine, this is not really for that.
It looks like, and is designed like, an after thought. That is what I'm sensing as James' issue.....it's a great idea, but could be done in a much classier way, and the VERY specific process to disconnect, that's described in that crazy assed way, just sinks of 'rushed to market'. It's certainly put me off paying the extra for this, so will stick to the Pro unit until (or if) they sort it out.
@@smokeybenj absolutely agreed and I'm going for the Cafelat Robot instead, which, according to JH doesn't need pre-heating
@@smokeybenjthis is old news but uh you just connect everything before plugging or unplugging it. Such a weird gripe
I own a 58 v2. Couldn't care less about the disconnect procedure since I never disconnect it. I put it together, put it on my counter, and it has been there as my daily driver ever since. We're not all espresso machine reviewers where we need to rotate a new machine on and off our kitchen counter every week :)
One huge thing not touched on in this review is the ease of maintenance. Pretty much any other espresso machine out there, if you need to clean the inside, good luck popping the panel off and doing it yourself. You'll probably bring it to a technician. The 58 is a completely open system, very easy to take apart and clean. Feels pretty revolutionary in that regard.
Only two downsides IMO are the power brick / temperature controller feeling cheap (probably Flair will sell an upgrade kit later, I'm sure) and the brew chamber rotating over time which needs to be taken out and re-seated once per week or two. Not a big deal and well worth the enormous savings compared to multi-thousand-dollar machines that are needed to brew a comparable shot.
Honestly I might choose the 58X over this if I were to invest in one. The brew head on these is wider and easily fits on top of a lot of kettles for preheating with steam, so unless you need to pull multiple shots in a row often the electrics don't seem as advantageous over non-electric in practice
I’ve been using the Flair 58 for the past several months, and was using the Flair Pro 2 before that.
My experience has been very positive. Thermal management is great whether I am pulling one shot (most mornings) or several shots back to back. I was pre-heating the brew chamber for the Pro 2 atop the lower chamber of a Bialetti Brikka, so this is a huge improvement.
I agree with your suggestion for the integration of the heating control module and power adapter into the base and/or stem that comes up from the base. But I think that would also have added to the price of the unit. Let’s see if Flair does that in a future revision, but I imagine the design decisions here reflect a balance between design and price point. Having said all of that, the design is functional.
I am brewing with a medium roast, and I’ve played with the water temperature, from 93 to 100, and ended up at 96 C. I am heating the Flair 58 at the highest setting.
With regard to pre-heat, I would recommend pre-heating about 10 minutes beyond the point where the Flair 58 beeps (indicating that it has reached the target temperature). This will allow the tamper and basket to also heat up (just remember to have the tamper in place when you turn on the Flair 58 - I can’t tell you how many times I’ve forgotten to do this first thing in the morning).
Overall, I am very happy with the Flair 58.
So what does one do for steaming milk when they go to a Flair?
@@stockraker1690 I'm pretty sure Mr. Hoffman also has a video of making milk foam without steamer
I have a Roc, a Robot, and 2 Flairs. One is the 58. Once I dealt with the wires and the grind, the 58 has become my goto. There are so many other machines on my counter with plugs, it seemed a minor challenge to add its power supply. I have fun with it.
The integrated heater seems cool and all, but honestly my current workflow of using the Flair Signature is just to boil every part of the brew chamber (except for the more plasticky coffee-filled portafilter) in an electric kettle. It's not really much more of a hassle as I grind the coffee and do other stuff.
Maybe I'll try this new flair model one day and change my mind though.
you have to reassemble it on the machine every time, the flair 58 just stays put
@@tommihommi1 which isn't as huge of a hassle, especially since you have to do it anyway to clean the used puck out, fill it back with fresh coffee, etc. It's just a difference in the "last generation" flairs to the 58s, where you actually get a standard 58mm portafilter/brew basket with a handle and not just a more proprietary 49mm portafilter/brew basket that just fits into the whole assembly.
Again, like Hoffman said, it seems like it's convenient but the implementation does need to be improved in future iterations (like the whole faff with the cable detachment order thingy and the low-mid-high switch). Honestly I would be interested to see a more capable heater that can preheat the chamber *and* maybe even heat up the water to ≥ 93˚C so it's even more convenient. But yeah, overall an interesting new product from flair.
@@olslimy6428 the order isn’t important anymore. Not in the newer iteration. They fixed it.
The "disconnect procedure" sounds like they made a mistake with the electronics and didn't spot it until after a significant portion of the units were made. Probably something as simple as a discharge circuit on the element side.
What irks me is that there are innumerable ways this could have been made easier, less clumsy, and more aesthetically pleasing, but it seems like they were too obsessed with maintaining the lines from the Flair design along the spine to want to incorporate a simple control onto it. A small four-point selector knob would have actually looked quite nice on the spine, and maintained the tactile experience of a lever unit. Match the top of the knob in shape (not size), and material to the lever knob, and it would blend in nicely. As it is, it looks like an aftermarket hack. In fact the only upside of the controller being on the cable like an 80s table lamp is that you could probably easily make a replacement that does have a PID control, or at the very least some kind of feedback display (if the controller is going to abandon the sleek lines and simple aesthetic, you might as well lean into it).
It would be more expensive to route the cable trough the body. Also, if they wanted to sell version with and without they would likely need 2 different types of body. This saves money in production.
@@spitfire83 So... don't make one without it? The Flair Pro is right there. Granted it doesn't have the 58mm portafilter, but... so what? Let this stand out for being the powered one.
Even if they were dead set on making one with and one without, routing that cable wouldn't require a change of process on building a base model, just an additional part to be added to one line. More expensive than the unpowered? Yes, but so is this, and it would benefit from not looking like someone did it in their shed in an hour with bits they had lying around.
The issue is you're able to force the brewhead side connectors together incorrectly and contact the wrong pins. Its a keyed connector so its hard to do if you're paying attention, but it will burn out the control box if you short those pins while you're plugged into the mains. As long as you are unplugging from the wall first(or plugging into the wall last) theres not a problem. People used to burn out their amplifiers doing the same thing. Don't connect power to an unconnected system. I'd wager the flairs accessibility exacerbates the problem. If you've got a gaggia heating element wired backwards and flow power into it, you're going to have a bad time.
I don't own this product and probably never will but I'm with you James, the disconnect sequence is convoluted. $90 for a heated element that's not temp controlled is too much
describing the heat controller as "executed in the easiest way possible for flair, not the best way possible for the user" is so damn accurate.
You are spot on. The aesthetics and practicality of the power supply is ridiculous especially in some kitchens depending on where the 120 v is situated. Your suggestion of power going in low and control mounted on the machine is what I was thinking. As it stands, it's so bad, I would go with the unpowered version.
Like, who had a kitchen where a power block is convenient to find a place to keep? Youd almost be forced to take it totally to pieces every time. And even then there's a bunch of crap laying on your counter, totally defeating the purpose of a small profile device.
@@skeetsmcgrew3282 inconvenient and also seemingly unsafe, especially with the apparently dodgy electronics here
I have the Flair Pro 2 and was very excited about the design of the Flair 58, until I saw that they stepped away from a full manual brewing experience. I don't want a machine that I have to plug into the wall, I want a machine that relies on me to get things "right".
It just doesn't seem worth it to upgrade at this point.
Great review as always James: I appreciate you voicing your opinions as I tend to share in your disappointments. Cheers!
You made all the points that I made when deciding against buying a Flair 58 a few months ago. For the price, the inconvenient (and ugly) control box bugs me just that little bit too much. The fact that there's an "unplug sequence" is just insane though...
The electronics do look cheap, but from my own espresso machine buying journey I can say the only thing I can remember in this price range is the gaggia classic pro. So really not a lot of great espresso machines at $500. I can see why someone would like and buy this.
James Bond makes coffee with a manual (hand operated) espresso machine in the film 'Live and Let Die' grinds freh beans, drops a shot, adds milk then steams it right in the cup. Then offers it to his boss to drink. AMAZING for 1973
That's why James considers Roger Moore the worst bond.
@@Assenayo lmfao
It occurs to me that great coffee technology has existed for a very long time but information was scarce. Even in modern times, most people are only vaguely familiar with the v60, which is literally just a damn funnel.
Just got my Flair 58x and honestly the thermal management isn’t bad. Preheating the brew chamber on my kettle isn’t as tedious as you might think, and plus no cable management involved 😉. Maybe try the 58x James, maybe that workflow is better for you, and definitely better for the aesthetic.
Thank you for the video! I use Flair pro 2 and am stoked on it, but the 58 has a much more attractive (in my view) design, only down side is the 3 piece electrical bit. Now, the 58x seems like a good option, as far as aesthetics go (none of the unsightly grey silicon and no cords). Flair's videos show that the brew chamber fits the Fellow's Stagg, for preheating, very well and the Sinonimo's tamper set has a complementing look. What I am trying to say is: 58x is on my to-eventually-get list, after finding a new home for the pro 2. Thank you for getting me into making espresso at home! You, Lance, and Sprometheus have been great help and inspiration. Cheers!
I’m happy with my basic Flair Neo, I like the ‘ceremony’ of warming up all the component and pressing manually. The whole electric part seems to go against the whole idea. But happy to see the company trying new things…
I have a non electrical version of the 58 and it comes with a rubber base to put the chamber on top of an electric kettle so it preheats it with the steam while boiling water.
Works pretty well for me and it produces better espresso than the pro imo
The regular 58 comes with that rubber cap too, so you could take it camping if you wanted or whatever
@@travismiller1610 Different cap. The 58x cap has a hole to let steam through. 58 cap is to preheat with water, not steam.
I have a Flair Classic and use it daily. The 58 does indeed look very interesting, and would be a noticeable "upgrade", except that in Australia, you're looking at a titch over a grand for the 58. At that price point, a 2nd hand La Pavoni starts to become more attractive. Hell, for another 600 or so on top, you could go a new La Pavoni and thus not have to worry about a separate kettle, or the confusing series of cable connections.
Check out Alternative Brewing for a better Australian price. I just posted a link a few minutes ago … I think the algorithm ate me previous comment
Yeah I got my La Pavoni on eBay for significantly less than this. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me at that price point.
Price in Australia is ridiculous they are on sale this weekend at a more reasonable price but I already paid a high price for mine that I have not received yet. You are right about other options being more viable here.
I’ve owned the flair58 for a few months now and the “sequence” doesn’t bother me at all because there pretty much is never a need to disconnect the temp controller portion from the flair. I simply disconnect the power brick section whenever I want to transport or make my counter more presentable.
I owned the flair pro 2 previously and the temperature control on the 58 is a complete game changer that unlocks the ability to brew lighter roasts + much better/consistent workflow. So it really sucks to see that so many commentators chose to go with other manual machines like the robot because they thought the power supply was too ugly. I’ve used the robot before and it really can’t compare when it comes to consistently pulling great light roast shots.
So for anyone who has been dissuaded because of the power brick, please reconsider! It really improved the espresso quality so much!
I keep an eye out on these for a few years now, i still dont think they are at the best point they can be but are constantly improving and I‘m excited to buy one in a few years maybe - once they improve it to the point that its perfect for me which i am certain they will.
As for thermal management, I tend to not use gooseneck kettles for filling up another brew chamber as it always loses me about 1-2°C
Maybe I‘m just extra picky but if that is something you worry about as much as i do it might be worth it to use a different kettle
Wrapping high-temperature insulation tape around the kettle neck also helps minimize temperature drops.
What is your best point?
I just hopped on here to say I have been watching your channel for a bit and haven't really had the need to change or upgrade to anything featured (besides trying MYLK). I bought a Helor 101 recently, however, and it finally arrived in the mail. After a bit of fumbling to figure out how to properly adjust the grind without accidentally disassembling the burrs, I dialed in what seemed like a good grind.
I ran a shot in my trusty espresso machine and... wow. WOW. The difference between what I usually get from my espresso using a cheap burr grinder to the Helor 101 is incredible. Usually I randomly get good crema even with good fresh beans. This time I got a nice THICK crema immediately, with a consistent body from beginning to end of the shot. The taste also highlighted things I was NEVER able to taste in the shot before. Even though it's a big change to go to hand grinding beans, this is such a huge step up that I can't see myself going back. I'll still use the cheap grinder for making course grind for cold brew or iced coffee, but for espresso this is where it's at.
Thanks again for giving us coffee peasants the knowledge we need to make good upgrades!
I have a flair pro, and I just attach the metal chamber to my kettle, so that the steam heats it up right before a pulling a shot. It's very effective in terms of preventing heat loss. I currently use the nanofoamer for stretching milk. For the price I would never get the 58, might as well get an actual espresso machine with a steam wand at that point.
Huge shout out to Lance Hedrick in this video, nice to see someone as popular as James recommending a smaller channel.
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 nice surprise to wake up!
I wanna take a moment to appreciate all the effort that goes into making these videos. Wow, I'm enjoying this so much. Thank you sir.
I would say that the two dangling boxes are result of engineering decisions that will make it better for the user. That temperature control is something that will be in much cooler environment the further it will be from the heating element (this will increase lifespan) and running on 24V DC not only makes it inherently safer for use near water, but also makes it capable of running off grid (battery or something). Btw that
That power supply unit is positively massive. There are much smaller and easier to hide units that can deliver 100W
The disconnection order thing is for the old machines, they had an issue with the connectors used at first that made it possible to cause mispolarisation and break stuff. Since then the connectors have been changed so it doesn't happen anymore.
I have the new Flair 58 and it has the same warning instructions. The cord has an tag instructing you not to disconnect that part first. But for me it’s not a big deal at all.
I just pull the cable out of the power socket and dont bother with the other connectors.
@@raiuno90 ^. Its only an issue if you're trying to power a machine thats not connected lol. Assemble first, power last.
@@EdGodoyPlana They still have the instructions in there to be safe, but the problem is fixed.
@@tommihommi1 Ok!
I have had the Flair Pro for several years. Entirely satisfied, such that I would not consider another machine or upgrading to the 58. Excellent espresso. I find the manual process satisfying, and I love how I can control precisely the pre-infusion and pressure throughout the pull. I have experimented and find that I start with 7 bars and finish closer to 9 for the best results w most coffees for me. And it was $300.
Makes me love my 9barista even more. Not great for multiple shots, but it's the most elegant and consistent little contraption. A pure joy to use once you get the hang of it.
😂
You know someone is from the UK when they say "if I want to be harsh" and then make a valid point in the most polite and respectful way possible 🤭
I'm a bit torn with this machine. It is absolutely stunning, and it looks like a lot of fun.
But I see flaws why I personally wouldn't buy it.
- If I bought one of these, it would also be for the fact that I'd remove one electric device, and having a device that is as simple as possible. So having that heating device would be missing the point. If there is a heating device on my espresso machine, it might as well heat the water property.
- The other problem is the price. For the same price, I can get a new Europiccola that will also look good (different, but good), include a boiler, and will allow me to steam milk.
But again, it really looks amazing and I'm sure you can get great results with it :)
The original Flair models don’t have heaters and are substantially cheaper than the 58 :)
@@JeffLi528 indeed, those ones make way more sense for me :)
If you already have a working set up and your counter space is limited then yeah its probably not the most convenient machine to integrate but it has excellent reviews across the board even with its fault so I can't see it being bad. I plan to create my set up with the Flair 58 as the central piece so for me its a no brainer.
James,
I've been watching a lot of your videos recently. I picked up my first SCA certified brewer, Ninja Hot and Cold machine. I also picked up two grinders, a Cuisinart electric grinder and a Hario Slim. The brewer and electric grinder I picked up on a really good sale from Kohl's.
I'm still dialing in on what I like. However, the difference what I can make now vs what I could make before is night and day.
I really want to say thank you for your no nonsense approach to videos. I have learned a lot from you.
For anyone considering to buy it now, they updated the preheating unit. Much better quality than before and without plug order issue. All models including the preheating unit are shipped with the new one, even if their model names haven't been changed. Just be cautious when buying from resellers, because they might still have the old model on stock (unlikely, but who knows). I bought the Flair 58+ a month ago and I'm super happy :)
Is there anything to distinguish the updated preheating units, or it is just the plug-in order?
I don't even drink coffee (tea guy) just listen to the videos for asmr. Fantastic voice, good for relaxing/getting to sleep.
I think the puck filter could be really handy for keeping the cleaning easier. On a machine in a cafe, the volume is high enough to justify cleaning it very regularly, but at home, the puck could reduce how often you need to fully clean the thing.
I’ve been using the 58 for a few months now it’s tricky to dial in at first as I have to grind finer to get a decent shot. After I hit the spot it’s a great experience to use and it produces great espresso. I have no issue at all about the power supply unit. Just plug it and unplug it never mess with the middle connectors. Cheers!
Hi James, great review! I’ve had the Flair 58 since July (preordered in April) and I got it as I wanted to learn more about espresso. It is really easy to experiment and play around with it compared to espresso machines in this price range (or anything that is less than £1K). For this reason, I think its a really good purchase for anyone that wants to start this (expensive) hobby without breaking the bank and doesn’t want to just get a cup of coffee in the morning (for that, better to go to a local cafe - it supports them, its faster and probably cheaper).
The unplugging system of the machine is poorly thought out, I completely agree. However, I only needed to unplug it once since I got it, so I don’t think its a real issue - this machine was not made to be moved around like the other flairs. For most people it will go in their kitchen/bar area and stay there (like a normal espresso machine).
I have the Neo, love it, and love you for bringing it to my attention. As a beginner it fits all the criteria, most importantly being the budget. That being said, I will have to wait on the 58 as it's out of my price range, but love what the company is doing, and very pleased at home with my Neo, making what I think is better coffee than I can buy. Love your work, keep it up!
It was immediately apparent to me that the reason the diagram labeled the 1 and 2 connections the way they did is because you obviously must connect the cables before you’d ever be able to disconnect them, therefore, you connect them in sequence: 1, followed by 2, and then you simply disconnect them in reverse. You can also just disconnect the plug from the mains outlet… so nothing more convoluted than unplugging any other electrical appliance. 🤷🏼♂️ The modularity of the cable is actually beneficial for replacing single components, if necessary, rather than having to replace the whole cable and also having the ability to upgrade the switch module in the future if/when they work out an improvement, which I agree is in order for that component. It all makes good sense to me.
It’s apparent to me that some people might not want multiple large black plastic boxes hanging off a cheap feeling cable. As well one of the big appeals of the Flair is the ease of transport. Having to remember a disconnect sequence to fully breakdown the machine is a con. Not the end of the world, but not an advantage.
@@ryanhlushak7387 I agree the aesthetics of the electrical modules leave a lot to be desired, but to be fair they’ll most likely be kept tucked out of sight. Maybe they’ll offer sleeker upgrades that can just be plugged in due to the modularity of the cable, which is nice.
The disconnect sequence is: unplug it from the wall. Done. 😉
Regarding portability, that’s not really the intention of this model, the Pro and lower models are intended to be more portable but this beast is really intended to remain in your kitchen.
@@ryanhlushak7387 I said nothing of fully breaking down the machine, though for whatever purpose you are unplugging it, all you need to know regarding a sequence is to unplug it from the wall. After that the sequence matters not. So, as to whether or not a sequence must be remembered for unplugging the machine, no, simply unplug it from the wall first as you would any other appliance.
@@ryanhlushak7387 My statement stands.
Hey James! I preordered this machine in April. The order of plugging/unplugging the machine still bothers me to this day. I give the chamber a thorough clean a couple times a week. I haven’t messed up the order, but I’ve heard doing it the wrong way has the chance of damaging the control unit. I’ve used my unit daily since June, and the controller (though cheap feeling compared to the rest of the machine) has been very pleasant for me.
One last note: I learned that the wood portafilter handle is a soft wood. I knocked it a couple times on the rim of a plastic bowl and found I dented the wood! So absolutely use a knock box
All in all. Given the choice, I would buy this all over again. Even if I was offered a Rancilio Silva at the same price (which I’ve also used)
This looks so good, i just canot get over how beautiful the design of it is
I do own one and I find it fun to use. One does not have to push hard at all to get to the 9 bars. I've got sweet tasting shots from it. It is also teaching me how to brew espresso. I don't mind too much the cables and heating connections. It bothers me a little that the hotter water is on top of the brewing chamber, but I've pulled good espresso drinks from it. I am pairing it with the Niche Zero. It's the best brewer I've ever had and I like it much better than any Breville/Sage or any La Pavoni. I also like it better than Gaggia or Silvia Rancilio Pro. I like it better than most semiautomatic machines. I do hope Flair comes up with a much better integrated heating system, though, as you say. However, I do not like the other Flair models. NOTE: I haven't attempted to brew any light roasts with the Flair 58.
I have a signature pro and use it two times per day since 5 years as my first espresso machine and first lever. It's probably the best coffe that I was able to do, I pre heat elements manually and pour the water at a temp of 95° (I probably need to try 100°) and then wash everything.
There is some things that I dislike with it : Too much parts, boring to pre-heat, and the most stupid thing : No grip to handle the heating element and the filter-holder. I broke the gauge after using the lever only with 10 bars of pressure at the max, so it's not ethernal, but close to it.
I am searching for something else, but 475$ for a manual lever, no thank you. :)
What do you think of the robot? Seems less fiddly, less cleanup, while still top notch shots... That's what I've been struggling to decide.... Robot or flair...
@@YumEspressoYum At the time of buying mine, I considered 3 machine : Flair signature Pro, Robot and the last one Rok espresso. It was a big investment for me so my main consideration what the reliability.
The flair have close to no plastic element : Some eternal silicon part but the manometer is in plastic. That is the only part that failed.
The rok and robot have some plastic part. I know that rok users have issue with broken parts but don't know much about the cafelat and don't want to speak for something I don't know.
To me the biggest things to think about are :
- Cleaning process.
- Process speed. The flair is not this long to use, but the Kamira (which is not for espresso in any way) is the goto for speed : No pre-heat, brew and put the induction plate at 1000w and you have the coffee in 2 min).
- Cost of a cup (16gr for the flair signature, let's be honest… this is a high amount of grain)
- Reliability.
- Price.
The robot is way too much for we with the 300 to 350livre sterling asked. I would take another flair if mine break.
@@4sstylz got it thanks for the explanation
Very helpful and as someone who owns one I definitely agree with the heating element criticism especially on the aesthetics side. I have no idea what to do with it. But I get it as a first generation idea. I expect it will get better over time. All that being said I really like the overall look, I enjoy not needing to boil the brewing components and I can pull multiple shots pretty quickly. Also being able to easily profile because of the length of the lever is really fun. My hope is they find ways to improve the heating system but overall I’m really happy with my first manual espresso maker!
I’ve been using a puck screen for ages on my work-a-day Breville. Anyway, I have a Flair Pro 2, and I love it. My 58 should hopefully arrive soon. I’m looking forward to not (hopefully my Niche arrives soon, too: using Ode with SSP, Option-O Remi, or OE OG hand grinder at the moment).
Hi James. We don't know each other but here's a dream I had:
I was hanging out in my kitchen, as we all do, and you came in and asked for a cup of coffee. I was so embarrassed because I only have a simple Nespresso machine and I've seen enough of your videos to know that wouldn't be the best. So I asked you what coffee maker I should use and you just smiled and said "It depends". Then you just left!!!
Well I woke up very frustrated (about the coffee!) so now I'm suggesting this:
Please do a video where you name a few specific coffee makers that - were you to find them in someone's home where you were visiting - you'd ask for a cup of coffee.
The Rules
1. The coffee maker must not cost more than $250 USD
2. The coffee maker must be easy to use and clean - every day
3. There must be very little risk of producing a coffee that would disappoint a guest
4. The maker does not need to produce a particular style of coffee (e.g. espresso or drip is fine)
I've seen a LOT of your other reviews, but none of them focus on how you'd react if you found those machines in someone else's home. My dream suggests that this is important.
My ideal implementation would be a separate part that can be connected to the Flair, like a collar that can be detached without affecting the rest of the machine.
I’ve been using it for 2 weeks, it’s my first espresso machine ever and I wanted to make use of my kettle (that I also use for filter coffee) while also being able to pull high quality espresso without spending 3000€ on a machine.
I agree on the fact that the electricity block is bulky / takes space. I sometime forget to turn it off for hours too and I don’t know how long it’ll last if it’s heating all day long.
All that being said, this machine combined with a niche grinder equals or beats 90% of the coffee shops I’ve been to in my life, and let’s me fuel my caffeine addiction at home and I really love it.
The upgraded version also adds a new cool feature : you don’t need to remove the top part attached to the lever to fill the chamber with water. Which means you can pull multiple shots in a row, in like 1 min each including discarding the puck and cleaning the basket. That is very neat.
Once preheated you can just go on and on even if you have guests or whatever, while serving great coffee.
Of course they’ll make the electronic part smaller or better with time. After all it’s the first time they make them if I’m not mistaken.
But overall, it’s freaking awesome and for 500€ you get coffee that, from what I’ve looked at on the internet, you just couldn’t get on an « electric » / « automatic » espresso machine.
Also the control you get from the lever / manual system probably leaves ample room for improvement on how one is pulling shots.
As a coffee geek, I’m just very happy to play with this. I truly hope it lasts long however (the electric part), and if keeps on delivering these results for years, then I’m a happy customer.
It's so kind of you to link some of the reviews that other RUclipsrs have done on this product. Love your content, and appreciate the knowledge you have to pass on!
I find myself using the flair more than my profitec 500pid. Being able to profile my shots yielded me better results in the cup than I could get with a 9bar machine…even with “stubborn” light roasts.
James, you are making the same mistake you did with the Aeropress video at 1:37. The gauge does give you exactly the pressure in, nothing else, and it works exactly like in a pump machine. The pressure gradient across the puck is always pressure in minus pressure out, and pressure out is always atmospheric pressure, or the coffee would come out explosively. The permeability of the puck governs the flow of coffee (in mass per time per unit area) for a given pressure gradient. Again, look up Darcy Flow for more info on this area of physics and fluid dynamics.
The ad before your video I got was about 7-11 coffee, "guaranteed fresh, 24/7"
I know you don't control the ads for your channel, but I found it very amusing to have an advert for gas station coffee on a high quality coffee channel 😀
I made a dual boiler for the 58, and really like it. Here is a link to a video demonstrating it. ruclips.net/video/2kwkHnuwNkI/видео.html
I made the video before getting the new flow thru piston. It is too bad you did not get that version to try because it is a significant improvement to workflow. My biggest complaints about the 58 were that it did not heat the water or steam milk. I agree with you completely on their electronics implementation. It was a fantastic idea to add preheat but it is executed poorly. I've wired my dual boiler to power up the flair power block when I turn it on. It is frustrating that it then requires a long press and then multiple presses to set the temperature. It would be far better if it had a 4 position switch off/lo/med/hi or a rotary dial with off and a continuous range of adjustment. Even with my complaints about the power controls aside, I have to say that I feel I am very very close to what I would consider my end game espresso machine. I contacted Flair and showed them a the video demonstration of the dual boiler and asked if they might be interested in collaborating on a commercial implementation. They said positive things about my design, but unfortunately I do not think an implementation will happen anytime soon. Just out of curiosity how do you think a dual boiler flair 58 for $1100 - $1200 usd would stack up against other high end espresso machines?
The Flair 58x (without the power heat) is a much better workflow compared to the regular 58. The base of the water chamber is the same diameter as most of the electric kettles I’ve encountered, and flair includes a gasket such that the chamber can rest on top of the kettle. This is the smoother workflow for me because you don’t have to “pre-heat” the chamber with water like the flair 2, you just let the chamber sit on the kettle to warm up while you’re prepping.
For the price, I wonder whether a LaPavoni wouldn't be the better choice -- if you plug it in anyways.
I have a La Pavoni and was thinking exactly the same thing. A Flair Pro would possibly make sense for me, perhaps as a travel companion as unlike the 58 is dissembles easily into its own travel case, but at that price point not sure what this adds. 🤷🏻♂️
The La Pavoni can't do the long ratios that you might want for modern espresso, and it's temperature is a complete crapshoot compared to the Flair58
@@tommihommi1 with mods you can get pretty accurate temperature. The bong isolator for 50 euro stabilises the temp issue
The problem I see with a closed boiler machine, is the constant maintance, and the number of electric components (heating and pump). If something breaks its always a hassle to reapair, with the flair just metal could break (or in the 58 the heater), but everything is an easy fix that anyone can do.
@@tommihommi1 how long a ratio do you consider appropriate for ‘modern’ espresso and what’s the capacity of the Flair’s chamber? I agree a spro-over isn’t really viable, but would suggest you couldn’t do that with a Flair either and if I want a longer drink, I can perform a Fellini and introduce more hot water into the brew head without any of the faffing about that would be involved with the Flair.
Also agree that with some simple mods temp control is much easier, but in truth with a temp strip on the head and a bit of experience, it’s really not a major issue.
I have the Flair 58 version seen here and i love it!!!
I will admit that the cable and control bit does feel a bit like a beta model rather than a full fledged in production product.
However i use it everyday and my work flow with it has been fine. The cable disconnect sequence isn't an issue at all since the one you are not supposed to disconnected first is twist locked.
The very external power supply for the heater is good from a serviceability stand point. That is you can access more of the electronics easier where Apple's idea of repairability is replace the motherboard and charge the customer 85% of a new device when all you needed to do was fix the camera and a capacitor
The Puck screen (besides even water distribution) is mainly there to avoid grounds getting "sucked up" when lifting the lever after the shot imo.
Seems strange to have not integrated the switch / selector to the power brick, though I guess it allows buying a standard power brick (looks like an old laptop's, as it seems huge for 85W, the PSU-side of the controller cable also looks like a pretty standard 2-pin PSU plug). Still, seems like an odd place to cheap up on.
Besides the excellent reason given above, integrating the controls into a very large brick becomes even more inconvenient. You could theoretically get the brick out of your way (as James does in the video) and have only the small control to need to fiddle with.
For home coffee lovers it's just OUTSTANDING. No frustration
I was one of the first who got the product in Europe through an official resellers, living in a very small flat with tight space restraints and only needing to do espresso this fit the bill in so many ways. It had the 58mm that I have gotten accustomed to from allot of other machines, another reason was the preheating and that I could skip the annoying water preheating I tried on others that I found annoying.
That said I agree with most of what you described, the need for using the highest setting and using the hottest water possible with light roasts that I prefer and enjoy. The execution of the electronic is not just ugly, clumsy and bad but it goes completely against the design aesthetic of the machines. In my view you could not possibly come up with a worse execution, also In my view at least you could just remove the different settings and then just have it preheat up to the highest, this would remove the second part and it would not remove anything from the machines functionality as the lower settings does not add anything, you would be better off just using 1-3 degree C lower on the kettle if you needed to brew at lower temperature, I simply cannot see a reason for different settings on a preheating device I just can’t. Also I’m not a huge fan of their planned systematic obsolescence approach or if your more polite planned upgrades. I have from the begging an odd feeling that the heater Is designed this way because they want to upgrade it down the line, I might be proven wrong but it would kinda make sense.
Negative point aside, it dos make wonderful espresso when the fundamental is right and I don’t feel like I’m missing out compared to the numerous prosumer and pro machines I used and tried. You would have to pay a decent amount to get something decently better (get the hint). But it dos requires a learn curve to get use too a completely manual lever, especially if your only used pump or spring levers before as I have. But it’s been a pleasant trip and you do learn more about the more hands on approach, and the feedback from the lever that you don’t usually experienced with modern day machines is just a wonderful experience.
Desktop PCs have the same disconnect sequence - Off at the mains first, then pull out the cable. It's so that the capacitors discharge to ground as you suspected.
We've heard about Mr. Hoffmann's large hands quite a few times at this point. I believe I'm not the only one looking forward to see metric measurements of these well caffeinated and nicely caffeinating pieces of his precious equipment. Including them gramms, not only milimeters.
Or maybe he may do some blueprints or even some plaster casts for Patreon or for limited edition sale. Weird idea but I'm interested to see how many people would like it. How many blueprints of hands have you seen in your life?
P.S. It's not my fault your channel attracts weird-in-hopefully-a-nice-way people, James.
I’m genuinely relieved to hear James acknowledge that being a coffee ‘collector’ is not normal.
amazingly self-aware.
Dang i didnt think the price would be that highhh 575$
How beautiful is the shot when the espresso starts flowing 😍
Finally, after what felt like eternity, a new long awaited video!
I truly love James reviews. He seems like such a genuinely intelligent, interesting person. His reviews are quite nuanced and strike a great balance.
I feel like I'm still brewing in the 80s.
temperature or 1980s? 1880s?
Jon, maybe they are trying to re-create the vinyl experience on the bottom of the puck. James is a great guy helping to expose us to new experiences &so are you. Over time I have simplified my coffee procedure. Moccamaster used like a pour over gives an exceptional cup with great beans. Simple and consistent.
Weird. I feel like I’m listening in the 80’s. If I could only get Hoffman to dial in my coffee and Darko to dial in my audio, I’d be able to sleep at night.
The big question though is: do you need one of those fancy weights you use on your stereo equipment to keep the power supply from pulling the unit of your counter?
Audiophile coffee for the win!
Love your channel BTW.
Upgraded to the 58 from the Signature during summer preorder, and have no regrets. My own solution for the bulky electronics was to hang them on my refrigerator abutting the counter where I brew, and it really doesn't look bad. The sequence instructions are indeed convoluted, but all they're attempting to say is, "never connect/disconnect (1) live." I wouldn't let these gripes be a deal breaker if you're in the market for any sort of fine espresso machine. Still worth one less large chore of maintenance, as well as the peace of mind exclusively troubleshooting human error instead of a complex appliance's whims.
Glad someone has finally said it. I've seen so many 'reviews' which just say how amazing this thing is yet for the price and a mass produced product that power supply looks like the most janky heath Robinson way of doing it
I absolutely love the design. One of the most beautiful appliances of any category I've ever seen
12:59 OMG i did the complete opposite ! I’ve been disconnecting it daily the wrong way ! I have this paper its in my flair package, but i was sure being right all that time, so a pretty much good example of confused costumer ( and stupid i give you that) but when you think you are doing something well you do not ask yourself if it’s actually good or not. I do not have any issue with my group head today, so way doing it that way ? What do i risk with my machine ?
You're able to contact the wrong pins on the brewhead side connection even though its a keyed connector. If you're plugged into the wall and do this, the controller shorts out. Not an issue if you're always plugging into the wall last, or unplugging from the wall first.
ever since the Flair 58 announced/came out I have been waiting for you to make this video!! I have the original Flair 58 and I absolutely love it. I had a Flair Signature and at some point would have probably upgraded to a dual boiler machine had the 58 not come out. For someone like me who makes maybe 2-3 shots a day it's perfect. relatively low maintenance, makes fantastic espresso. workflow is markedly improved compared to Flair Signature/Pro 2 namely in regards to preheating and pulling back to back shots. there are some qualms i have with it like finding a scale will underneath that isn't the Acaia Lunar, having to purge the remaining water. I honestly don't mind the cheap plastickly looking AC adapter as it's something I can just hide behind my coffee bar. I know some of the other commenters on this video have the updated version of the 58 with the different valve plunger but IMO i don't think it's that much of a hassle to remove the pressure gauge/stem to fill water however I do find it annoying when the plunger disc rotates inside the water chamber and you have to pull it ouit and realign. Really enjoyed the review video and I hope you have a great day!
What happened to the pro and cons of using the screen? 🤔 thought it was coming later in the video🙃. I wonder why it's only helpful in home setups and not in cafes
“A little bit obsessive” 🥰 thank you Mr. Hoffman for your attention to detail and being as transparent as possible.