I love mine. There is so much flexibility. Not only can you do pressure profiling, but you can also do tempature profiling as well. e.g. put piston halfway in chamber and put 95C underneath the piston and 70C above piston. Pull half the shot and then raise the piston to mix temps. Then, pull the remainder of the shot. Produces sweeter cup.
Been owning an original Flair Pro since 2019, this Christmas I'll be switching to the stripped down version of this, the Flair 58x. A standardized basket is all I ever needed for this machine, so I'll most likely be brewing tasty espresso with it for the rest of my life. Absolutely great product!
One of the reason I love ，is the path of water is so simple , no water pump , plastic tube, and no more boiler keep boiling same old water again and again .
Been using this for over a year now. I use a small scale with auto timer that I got off amazon for as little as $25 and it fits in that space. The espresso quality is delicious. Using the J Max grinder.
Iv’e had flair machines for several years, and have the 58 from when it was introduced. I love the machine and prefer the profile and simplicity of lever machines in general. The shots I get are as good if not better than what I have gotten at cafes, in fact a cafe shop owner who also was a judge at national and international barista competitions has said that the best espresso he ever tasted was made in a cafe with a flair 58.
It's the first and probably last machine I'll own. It's so low maintenance. I've added the Espresso Profiler and a Decent Scale and it'll be as close to a Decent machine within reason.
The fact that Flair 58 does not have a boiler (requires a kettle) is a great advantage in my book - there is nothing to leak, the device is virtually unbreakable. The electronics is separate from the main unit - it may be easily replaced in the event of a failure. If you don't care for the milk, then ignore the little neatpicking that you have heard in this video. Flair 58 is one of the best options out there! Can't wait till next morning to make more yummy coffee... Happy brewing, everyone!
They sell it at $760 in Japan with their official distributor, during a depreciated yen which makes it feel more equivalent to $1000. Maybe they should lower their overseas prices a little bit, then it would be a pretty attractive purchase.
Those who are remotely considering the Flair58 will surely have no problem with having a kettle hehe it’s almost a pro consumer machine at this level and intermediate to advance home baristas will be considering it. Beginners and new to the hobby will be too overwhelmed by its features and capabilities. So the positioning of the device is well defined and wards off those who won’t fall in love with it. Still great video makes me want to upgrade my flair58 v2 to this one ❤
I enjoy my Flair 58 and Picopresso. The Flair is awesome for coffee that isn't quite fresh enough to pull good shots with on your semi-auto machines since you can pressure profile manually. As for milk-based drinks: Flair needs to come out with a stand-alone thermocoil steamer. In the meantime, people can check their local discount stores for one of De'Longhi's various machines with steam wand and do the hack you taught us. Cheaper than a Foamer pro, even if new, and you have a backup machine, lol.
The power brick outputs about 100w, which will heat the machine up in about 5 minutes compared to about 10 minutes with a 65w USB-C charger. The 65w will be able to then maintain temp with less cycling than the 100w, leading to better temperature stability with the 65w on the max heat setting.
Great review. Especially the part where you correctly point out the pricing. I suggest if you must descale, to use citric acid, not acetic acid, because acetic acid can pit the steel whereas citric acid has a pacifying effect. Not that big of a deal with this machine, but kinda important in general. I tested the heating of my Flair and found it to be problematic between the settings for consistency because so much heat is rapidly lost from the machine. I have further insulated mine with extra layers of rubber, aluminum, and wool, and it is now very temperature stable for an extraction. On my machine I have it adjusted so that I do not have to raise the lever to insert the portafilter. I can get the water in the chamber to be the temp I want and then attach the portafilter - no surprise water coming out of the bottom of the machine. I currently am using a Breville foamer that heats milk with temperature control, which is good enough for me. I sometimes put an LED tea light under it so that the mirror shows up the extraction better.
I have a cafélat robot. And I absolutely love it. It’s also a direct lever machine like this without even the need to preheat for dark and medium coffees.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner no! It’s absolutely amazing. I need to preheat- there’s minimal contact from the thin steel basket and the portafilter and so not much thermal loss. It’s almost all stainless steel and at a price point of 500$ CAD - best value machine on the market IMO. Better shots than machines triple the cost.
I just bought the Flair 58+ 2. It will replace my aging Breville Dual Boiler. I like milk drinks -- so to handle the milk steaming, I bought a dedicated milk steamer, WPM-MS-130D and I already had a PID controlled kettle for pour over. So I think this will work well. TBD: It does not ship until Nov 15.
I brought this machine coz I’m lactose intolerant, and I can’t find myself another machine/device that out of the box can do -real time flow profile -PID or electrically heated group head -virtually unlimited time of blooming -ridiculously high water debit on demand -very easy and quick to clean the whole machine -virtually no fear of scaling -very few parts to worry or replace in the long run. AND ask less for the price of the Flair 58. IMO I don’t mind they do a 54mm version that cost less, actually I prefer that instead. But if you compare the features and potential this device can do, and its electric-pump-driven competitors, like Decent, you’ll see why they dare to ask for such a price. There is actually an offering from China that can do similar things, even more like the Meticulous Espresso Machine, but I personally can’t admire its aesthetics
Love mine. Have the Pesado High extraction basket, searchpean tiny 2s scale, Normcore calibrated tamper and my wife makes the milk with a nanofoamer/microwave - works great.
Thank you for the video! It seems too pricey to me as well for what it is. I'm confused though, why do you need a water kettle if that has a heating element? Or is it only good enough to keep the temperature, but you need the kettle to start with sufficiently hot water??
Admittedly I already got a MaraX but the option of making an espresso with a lever is a little romantic, especially since its so quiet and you can hear the espresso come out as you push the lever. I used to own a Pro 2 but the preheating workflow put me off to the point I was too lazy to use it much. #flair58
Tom, thank you for the review. I plan to open a small bistro up in a mountain, which will have basic solar as for electricity. The reality is that 95% of all customers will order a milk based coffee. So. It is this machine, and perhaps a Nanofoamer Pro, and of course a kettle. Would you do that, or go the Aeropress route? Once the business is up and running I want to order the Ascaso duo with its energy efficient thermocoil.
it's called a 'connecting rod' much like inside an internal combustion engine. and quite literally because of how the rod connects to the lever and the motion generated from the lever isn't 'straight' causes the 'piston' to not move 'straight'. much like inside an internal combustion engine. hence the need for motor oil. the tolerance between the brew chamber and the piston is so high along with whatever 'gasket' 'o ring' you as a user get to see and now discuss in your video of how much 'play' there is.
Hello Tom, I am a good follower of you and I like your way of presenting content. Please advise me to choose between the DeLonghi Evo "ECAM 290,83" machine and the Philips 5400 or Philips 5500. * I am looking for a quality drink and a durable machine Thanks
Hi there! I'd honestly prefer any Magnifica Evo over any Philips. The Philips' coffee puck is too small and the milk is not as nice as Delonghi, in my opinion. Cheers!
Has this lad really never heard of fully automatic milk foamers, which do an excellent and not at all cumbersome job, while I am taking care of my espresso at the pressure curve I like?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Ah ok, the scale here in eastern Netherlands is (in German) Deutsche Harte 6, and that is medium. But I have never seen any scaling on my Flair
Great video, but I have to point out the elephant in the room, are Flair allergic to making good looking electronics? It looks like they took a meat thermometer and stabbed an otherwise great looking espresso machine with it. The previous electrically heated flair 58 had awful looking electronics too, can they seriously not do better? Edit: just looked it up and realised you're using that to monitor temperature accurately, sorry about that. But also, why isn't a temperature gauge built in? They're not overly expensive to implement and it's already a pretty pricey machine for most people.
I think the controller is fine - you don't have to interact with it too much. Just the cable handling could be a little annoying. I added the temp probe to show the temps.
Crazy that they clearly put so much effort into the design on this thing only to slap on that dinky plastic controller cable thing that cheapens the entire experience of the product. Even if it does work fine its so out of place.
From india, I have ordered Flair Pro2 about an hour ago, lets see how it goes🤞🏻😅. i was using budan espresso since 4yrs but its kind of cheap extraction experience, I'll use it as milk steamer with Flair
@@zbygniewprlwytzkofsky6614 i have a decent hand grinder (not expensive one) which can grind evenly from fine to extra fine, but i know i hav to learn that flair's sweet spot.
Find me another machine/device that out of the box can do -real time flow profile -PID or electrically heated group head -virtually unlimited time of blooming -ridiculously high water debit on demand -very easy and quick to clean the whole machine -virtually no fear of scaling -very few parts to worry or replace in the long run. AND ask less for the price of the Flair 58. IMO I don’t mind they do a 54mm version that cost less, actually I prefer that instead. But if you compare the features and potential this device can do, and its electric-pump-driven competitors, like Decent, you’ll see why they dare to ask for such a price. There is actually an offering from China that can do similar things, even more like the Meticulous Espresso Machine, but I personally can’t admire its aesthetics.
@@mike216514 Its not just about features. A machine can still be overpriced for what it is. This machine is basically a lump of metal with a heating element. Regardless price is about supply and demand and they probably need to make up for some R&D cost as well. I would say if the heating system was better designed without that huge power supply this would have been worth the price.
Idk, I think it's more capable than the similarly priced Silvia or GCP, but it just doesn't offer milk steaming capabilities. The big thing with the 58+ is that you can do pressure profiling on the fly, however you like.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Could be, but from my personal experience of having had the 58+ and Lelit Anna (pid version), I sent back the 58+ and never looked back. Brand new Anna set me back 600€ vs 750€ I had to spend on 58+ (not adding the additional cost for milk frothing). The price diff was enough to grab df54. Imo, for flair 58+ to be competitive, price wise, it shouldn't cost a cent over 500€. 780€ gets me Profitec Go...
I love mine. There is so much flexibility. Not only can you do pressure profiling, but you can also do tempature profiling as well. e.g. put piston halfway in chamber and put 95C underneath the piston and 70C above piston. Pull half the shot and then raise the piston to mix temps. Then, pull the remainder of the shot. Produces sweeter cup.
Been owning an original Flair Pro since 2019, this Christmas I'll be switching to the stripped down version of this, the Flair 58x. A standardized basket is all I ever needed for this machine, so I'll most likely be brewing tasty espresso with it for the rest of my life. Absolutely great product!
One of the reason I love ，is the path of water is so simple , no water pump , plastic tube, and no more boiler keep boiling same old water again and again .
That IS true. Cheers!
Been using this for over a year now. I use a small scale with auto timer that I got off amazon for as little as $25 and it fits in that space. The espresso quality is delicious. Using the J Max grinder.
Iv’e had flair machines for several years, and have the 58 from when it was introduced. I love the machine and prefer the profile and simplicity of lever machines in general. The shots I get are as good if not better than what I have gotten at cafes, in fact a cafe shop owner who also was a judge at national and international barista competitions has said that the best espresso he ever tasted was made in a cafe with a flair 58.
It's the first and probably last machine I'll own. It's so low maintenance. I've added the Espresso Profiler and a Decent Scale and it'll be as close to a Decent machine within reason.
The fact that Flair 58 does not have a boiler (requires a kettle) is a great advantage in my book - there is nothing to leak, the device is virtually unbreakable. The electronics is separate from the main unit - it may be easily replaced in the event of a failure.
If you don't care for the milk, then ignore the little neatpicking that you have heard in this video. Flair 58 is one of the best options out there!
Can't wait till next morning to make more yummy coffee... Happy brewing, everyone!
I don’t have a flair but the way it wobbles and squeaks makes me think it’s not built to last forever
They sell it at $760 in Japan with their official distributor, during a depreciated yen which makes it feel more equivalent to $1000. Maybe they should lower their overseas prices a little bit, then it would be a pretty attractive purchase.
Those who are remotely considering the Flair58 will surely have no problem with having a kettle hehe it’s almost a pro consumer machine at this level and intermediate to advance home baristas will be considering it. Beginners and new to the hobby will be too overwhelmed by its features and capabilities. So the positioning of the device is well defined and wards off those who won’t fall in love with it. Still great video makes me want to upgrade my flair58 v2 to this one ❤
I enjoy my Flair 58 and Picopresso. The Flair is awesome for coffee that isn't quite fresh enough to pull good shots with on your semi-auto machines since you can pressure profile manually.
As for milk-based drinks: Flair needs to come out with a stand-alone thermocoil steamer. In the meantime, people can check their local discount stores for one of De'Longhi's various machines with steam wand and do the hack you taught us. Cheaper than a Foamer pro, even if new, and you have a backup machine, lol.
You can replace the power brick with a 65W (20V) GaN charger, USB-C cable rated for 100W and adapter from USB-C to 5.5x2.5mm barrel connector.
The power brick outputs about 100w, which will heat the machine up in about 5 minutes compared to about 10 minutes with a 65w USB-C charger. The 65w will be able to then maintain temp with less cycling than the 100w, leading to better temperature stability with the 65w on the max heat setting.
Great review.
Especially the part where you correctly point out the pricing.
I suggest if you must descale, to use citric acid, not acetic acid, because acetic acid can pit the steel whereas citric acid has a pacifying effect. Not that big of a deal with this machine, but kinda important in general.
I tested the heating of my Flair and found it to be problematic between the settings for consistency because so much heat is rapidly lost from the machine. I have further insulated mine with extra layers of rubber, aluminum, and wool, and it is now very temperature stable for an extraction.
On my machine I have it adjusted so that I do not have to raise the lever to insert the portafilter. I can get the water in the chamber to be the temp I want and then attach the portafilter - no surprise water coming out of the bottom of the machine.
I currently am using a Breville foamer that heats milk with temperature control, which is good enough for me.
I sometimes put an LED tea light under it so that the mirror shows up the extraction better.
I like the honesty! THANKS!
I have a cafélat robot. And I absolutely love it. It’s also a direct lever machine like this without even the need to preheat for dark and medium coffees.
Oh snap! You don't have to pre-heat the robot?
@@TomsCoffeeCorner no! It’s absolutely amazing. I need to preheat- there’s minimal contact from the thin steel basket and the portafilter and so not much thermal loss.
It’s almost all stainless steel and at a price point of 500$ CAD - best value machine on the market IMO. Better shots than machines triple the cost.
I just bought the Flair 58+ 2. It will replace my aging Breville Dual Boiler. I like milk drinks -- so to handle the milk steaming, I bought a dedicated milk steamer, WPM-MS-130D and I already had a PID controlled kettle for pour over. So I think this will work well. TBD: It does not ship until Nov 15.
I brought this machine coz I’m lactose intolerant, and I can’t find myself another machine/device that out of the box can do
-real time flow profile
-PID or electrically heated group head
-virtually unlimited time of blooming
-ridiculously high water debit on demand
-very easy and quick to clean the whole machine
-virtually no fear of scaling
-very few parts to worry or replace in the long run.
AND ask less for the price of the Flair 58.
IMO I don’t mind they do a 54mm version that cost less, actually I prefer that instead. But if you compare the features and potential this device can do, and its electric-pump-driven competitors, like Decent, you’ll see why they dare to ask for such a price.
There is actually an offering from China that can do similar things, even more like the Meticulous Espresso Machine, but I personally can’t admire its aesthetics
can u do an updated video on plastic free espresso machines
Love mine. Have the Pesado High extraction basket, searchpean tiny 2s scale, Normcore calibrated tamper and my wife makes the milk with a nanofoamer/microwave - works great.
Thank you!
Great video Tom! Just bought the flair Neo, it’s coming this week I am so excited to get my feet wet. 👍🏽☕️😎
Very interesting. Thanks!
Thank you for the video! It seems too pricey to me as well for what it is. I'm confused though, why do you need a water kettle if that has a heating element? Or is it only good enough to keep the temperature, but you need the kettle to start with sufficiently hot water??
Heating element is too weak to heat up the water. The strietman for example is capable of heating the water from room temperature
The heating element is for pre-heating the brew group, so you don't have to do that. But it's not meant to heat up water as a medium.
Admittedly I already got a MaraX but the option of making an espresso with a lever is a little romantic, especially since its so quiet and you can hear the espresso come out as you push the lever. I used to own a Pro 2 but the preheating workflow put me off to the point I was too lazy to use it much. #flair58
Tom, thank you for the review. I plan to open a small bistro up in a mountain, which will have basic solar as for electricity. The reality is that 95% of all customers will order a milk based coffee. So. It is this machine, and perhaps a Nanofoamer Pro, and of course a kettle. Would you do that, or go the Aeropress route? Once the business is up and running I want to order the Ascaso duo with its energy efficient thermocoil.
Greate video !
I hope you review the Flair Power Tower
Any plans on reviewing the Odyssey Argos?
#Flair58, have it and really enjoy it, milk-based drinks with the nanofoamer pro also work nice workflow wise
i have nanofoamer what setting do u use?and how much milk do you use? assuming you use it for latte art
i have nanofoamer what setting do u use?and how much milk do you use? assuming you use it for latte art
Very cool!
OMG please understand... D.C. MEANS OFF-GRID.
It is EXACTLY what I need.❤
??
it's called a 'connecting rod' much like inside an internal combustion engine. and quite literally because of how the rod connects to the lever and the motion generated from the lever isn't 'straight' causes the 'piston' to not move 'straight'. much like inside an internal combustion engine. hence the need for motor oil. the tolerance between the brew chamber and the piston is so high along with whatever 'gasket' 'o ring' you as a user get to see and now discuss in your video of how much 'play' there is.
I'm also a #Flair58 owner.
Would love to see some more content. Maybe different pressure profiles
Intelligensia coffee did a good one. I wish my smart espresso profiler had more ones to play with. The lever based ones are easy to replicate.
GDEALER Digital Pocket Kitchen Scale 0.001oz/0.01g 500g is $14, should fit no prob.
Hello Tom, I am a good follower of you and I like your way of presenting content.
Please advise me to choose between the DeLonghi Evo "ECAM 290,83" machine and the Philips 5400 or Philips 5500.
* I am looking for a quality drink and a durable machine
Thanks
Hi there! I'd honestly prefer any Magnifica Evo over any Philips. The Philips' coffee puck is too small and the milk is not as nice as Delonghi, in my opinion. Cheers!
Hey Tom, are you going to look at Ninja new cafe machine?
Has this lad really never heard of fully automatic milk foamers, which do an excellent and not at all cumbersome job, while I am taking care of my espresso at the pressure curve I like?
The new 2.0 just dropped recently
Remove the pressure and temperature gauges, add water tank, and I feel better.
Well, I'm afraid it wasn't designed with a tank, like the La Pavonis. Still pretty nice though.
What is the "Wasserhärte" in your region, as I can see a lot of limescale?
It's about as hard as you can get. I have to descale this thing every 10 uses...
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Ah ok, the scale here in eastern Netherlands is (in German) Deutsche Harte 6, and that is medium. But I have never seen any scaling on my Flair
Great video, but I have to point out the elephant in the room, are Flair allergic to making good looking electronics? It looks like they took a meat thermometer and stabbed an otherwise great looking espresso machine with it. The previous electrically heated flair 58 had awful looking electronics too, can they seriously not do better?
Edit: just looked it up and realised you're using that to monitor temperature accurately, sorry about that.
But also, why isn't a temperature gauge built in? They're not overly expensive to implement and it's already a pretty pricey machine for most people.
It is too much over priced, you'll get bambino plus, lelit anna, racilio and many mor in that price
@@ashes1895and none of them will have flow control
I think the controller is fine - you don't have to interact with it too much. Just the cable handling could be a little annoying. I added the temp probe to show the temps.
This vs 9Barista? :)))
Well... You need a stove for 9barista but....
Crazy that they clearly put so much effort into the design on this thing only to slap on that dinky plastic controller cable thing that cheapens the entire experience of the product. Even if it does work fine its so out of place.
#Flair58
Hi Tom I think that's a beautiful machine and would love to have it but it's way out of my league
#Cheers ☕
#flair58 I guess, though I'm using an alm kopi at home
From india, I have ordered Flair Pro2 about an hour ago, lets see how it goes🤞🏻😅. i was using budan espresso since 4yrs but its kind of cheap extraction experience, I'll use it as milk steamer with Flair
Dunno how you are grinding, but as far as I know it all boils down (pun intended) to the quality of your grinder
@@zbygniewprlwytzkofsky6614 i have a decent hand grinder (not expensive one) which can grind evenly from fine to extra fine, but i know i hav to learn that flair's sweet spot.
#flair58 seems a little expensive though!
Prices on all manual espresso machines are ridiculous. These is absolutely no reason why this would cost more than 300 USD
Personally, I never liked the 58.
%00-600? geez, I thought it was $150...maybe they have a 150 version? is the body metal or plastic?
I talk about it in the video - it's die cast aluminum. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner I thought i watched it all, lol...thnx...They have a plastic version, id avoid :-)
#Flair58
There is not a single thing on that socalled machine, that justifies its asking price, imo. Way too overpriced, for what it is.
Find me another machine/device that out of the box can do
-real time flow profile
-PID or electrically heated group head
-virtually unlimited time of blooming
-ridiculously high water debit on demand
-very easy and quick to clean the whole machine
-virtually no fear of scaling
-very few parts to worry or replace in the long run.
AND ask less for the price of the Flair 58.
IMO I don’t mind they do a 54mm version that cost less, actually I prefer that instead. But if you compare the features and potential this device can do, and its electric-pump-driven competitors, like Decent, you’ll see why they dare to ask for such a price.
There is actually an offering from China that can do similar things, even more like the Meticulous Espresso Machine, but I personally can’t admire its aesthetics.
Tell us you don’t know what it can do for its price without telling us
@@mike216514 Its not just about features. A machine can still be overpriced for what it is. This machine is basically a lump of metal with a heating element. Regardless price is about supply and demand and they probably need to make up for some R&D cost as well. I would say if the heating system was better designed without that huge power supply this would have been worth the price.
Idk, I think it's more capable than the similarly priced Silvia or GCP, but it just doesn't offer milk steaming capabilities. The big thing with the 58+ is that you can do pressure profiling on the fly, however you like.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Could be, but from my personal experience of having had the 58+ and Lelit Anna (pid version), I sent back the 58+ and never looked back. Brand new Anna set me back 600€ vs 750€ I had to spend on 58+ (not adding the additional cost for milk frothing). The price diff was enough to grab df54. Imo, for flair 58+ to be competitive, price wise, it shouldn't cost a cent over 500€. 780€ gets me Profitec Go...