"It was my hope to STRIP HIM OF ALL THAT HE HELD MOST DEAR before I killed him"...that sounds almost identical to part of the Valonqar prophecy. "Queen you shall be, until another, younger and more beautiful comes to cast you down AND TAKE ALL THAT YOU HOLD DEAR." Makes me wonder if Tyene Sand (who's said to be very fair, share her father's extensive knowledge of poisons, and is on her way to King's Landing) will be the one to take what Cersei holds dear by poisoning Myrcella or Tommen. Interesting...
I'm really enjoying this series! It's almost on par with your Catelyn Sucks videos. My elation at someone else sharing hatred for that wretched woman won't permit me to like any videos more than those😅. But these are great!!
thank you so much...I must admit, the Catelyn videos were probably more fun to make than anything else we've done...it was a real learning experience too...people flipped out on us when we made the first one, and by the time we finished the series, it seemed like half the internet all of a sudden hated her as much as we did
The Order of the Green Hand It shocks me how many people actually liked the character knowing full well how she treated Jon was bordering on abuse. Tormenting a motherless child should've told everyone all they needed to know about Cat. Your videos did an awesome job highlighting what the show hid. I don't see how anyone could hate y'all for it...the evidence is straight from the books.
for some reason, people reacted towards us as if we were hating on their mother...we actually thought making them was going to destroy our channel and we took a short break from her...then, when we came back at her, we did it with a really sarcastic tone, and all of a sudden, people were completely ok with us hating on her
this is a moment I actually feed bad for Tywin. Like he tried SO HARD but he failed SO BAD in raising his own kids and it just keeps coming back to bite him, so even though he does everything else expertly, he has to sit there and develop a freaking aneurism because his twins are morons, his daughter has no sense of discipline or honor, he spent so much money on an education that CLEARLY everyone but Tyrion ignored (because you KNOW he did), and then he trusted Circi to be a decent mother and raise a not monster child and instead she created Joffery and coddled him in his murderous ways.That man needs some morphine on a slow drip at this point.
Clare Kolodzik wow, people are really blindly in love with Tywin. Or is it Charles Dance, whose role is so much more sympathetic than the book countrepart. He is a toxic father who was unable to love or even notice his children, because he's broken and they pay the price. He is the very opposite of Ned, who loved his kids too much, which turned out to be just as harmful. The intentions make a whole world of a difference, don't they? When Tywin speaks "family", he means power and reputation and he fails to notice individual human beings behind the names, he is basically a Doran. People love to hate Cersei, but I wouldn't compare her to Starks or other characters. In a way she is still a heartbroken, grief striken little girl, frustrated with injustice of patriarchy she lives in. Unlike Tywin, she is MAD, so you shouldn't really expect much from her. She couldn't escape her life with Robert for an adventure, like Jamie did and she lost a child (and will lose two more) she saw as a purpose of her pain and humiliation. To a degree, everyone is what their family, fate and the culture makes them to be, some people are naturally more resistant, some aren't.
ocandro don’t get me wrong I hate Tywin- he has a whole host of issues and I don’t approve of plenty of things that he does. But in this one instance I really felt bad for him. Didn’t like him, but felt bad for him. As for Circi- I’ll say what I say about every character. At the end of the day, you make your own decisions, and you decide who you want to be. Doesn’t matter if the world is stacked against you (I’ve been in some pretty deep holes myself) you decide what that is going to make you. Circi let it make her a monster and she let it excuse her actions in her own mind. She’s responsible for that. She’s responsible for failing to raise Joffrey. Tywin is responsible for all his choices. One doesn’t excuse the other.
Clare Kolodzik Clare Kolodzik thanks for a civilised answer, so nice to see that in the internet. I am not saying she doesn't make her terrible decisions or that fate has been particulary cruel to her. I just think her judgement is pretty impaired by her madness (which in her case is more of a brain health, maybe chemical imbalance or genetic issue in my opinion, but that's of course open to interpretation), which separates her from some other characters, who despite trauma, are still more or less capable of being rational. But I see now that perhaps we pretty much agree on both characters. I've been through crap after crap over the years too and my nervous system loves to work against me, but when I compare myself to friends with more serious mental conditions, I see how much more capable I am of controlling my life (for better or worse), at least most of the time. Cheers
I agree with a lot of what you said about Cersei and her always seeking of Tywins approval she was also very envious of Jamie but the day she met the woods witch has had a massive impact on her life and is the major source of her paranoia
That is just amazing. You have put together a cogent analysis that beautifully ties together the characteristics and motivations of these characters. Bravo!! I love your work so much you both do an extraordinary job!
So hooked on these videos. What really sells these theories to me is the visible amount of effort and passion that you guys have put into each and every single one of your works. I love the in-text examples, the narration and the artwork!
A good add in is, with Martells wealth, it would explain LFs seemingly easy capacity for big picture elaborate expenditure. You don't go from zero to hero just like that, you require money to make money. It would make sense if Dorans bankrolling I'm not downplaying Baelishs feats economically with how he's amassed vast wealth via investment / speculation / trade etc. but he did come from an impoverished house and had fallen out of favor with Lord Tully by that point
In a LF video they pointed out how Baelish has created dozens of silly sounding jobs with people that do not exist so he can steal money from the crown while that bordell serves as an explanation for his wealth.
Oh yeah, we've got no doubt LF is swindling financially from the crown coffers and has been doing all sorts of shady shit as Master of Coin. Tyrion noticed discrepancies and got a headache looking at income / expenses of the IT, and couldn't make sense of it all in the short while he had to look into it The amount of money hes used to pay people off or buy their loyalty is an extensive list. he's got his hands in cookie jars everywhere. the revenue streams he was producing under Robert is telling as well, especially when it's told Robert was pretty much beggaring the realm with all his expenses. we can reasonably suspect that cashflow the Iron Throne recieves from Baelish would stop producing once Martell plans grew to fruition and the chess pieces are all set. Cersei was using Lannister gold to fund everything in Feast if i recall correctly
if the martells are really peddling in flesh, its only a hop and skip to bankrolling LF's prostitutes. Heh, thats almost a money laundering scheme in itself
Exactly. The Martells are Baelish's bank, in the way that the Lannisters (and Bravosi Iron Bank) have been the bank to the Realm. The difference being, Littlefinger knows how to make money and also deliver the political gains the Martells desire as a return on their investment.
It’s amazing how many details you guys found on a character I thought wasn’t completely flushed out and yet it now seems I may have been mistaken. Little Finger and Doran, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
Great video guys! Have you noticed that, when Doran sends the Sandsnakes to King's Landing, he first says that, "Dorne still has friends at court" and then tells Lady Nym *one page later* that he needs "an ear at court". So what now? Does he have friends there or not? Well, maybe he doesn't have friends in the Small Council anymore, with Little Finger and Oberyn gone. That's why. He also casually first sent a person who hates the Lannisters because they killed his sister to a city full of Lannisters; then, he sends a person who hates the Lannisters because they killed her father to a city full of Lannisters. Okay. Nym being the daughter of Oberyn also is sure to annoy the Tyrells since Oberyn crippled Willas years back. Btw. I wonder what the Faith might do to Tyene when they find out she isn't a maiden anymore and tends to poison people. Either they will kill her or welcome her as one of their own. The Andals never poisoned people, right? Oh wait, they did.
It is heavily implied. Tyene and Arianna nearly had sex with Andrey Dault when they were really young, which I'd say is around 14 or 15. Arianna is around 23 or 24 during A Dance with Dragons, iirc. Tyene is the same age (which is why they are this close). Why would Tyene who was willing to have sex with ~14 years not find anyone to lose it to in the next 10 years?
Potatosti i see well there is something interesting here that arianna and tyene are close to each other so even though i hate the tv show don't you think that the fate of arianna and tyene are little bit spoiled in the show ellaria(character based on arianna) and tyene got captured by cercei who poisoned tyene and made elaria watch her die slowly So it's grrm thing two close people watching themselves die and can't do nothing to stop it one is poisoned the other is let to starve to death
we used to use a lot of pop culture but people didn't get it half the time and it seemed like it was more trouble than it was worth, but last week we were talking about Heizenburging the QoT and thought it would be hilarious so we went for it
You guys always get me looking back over the pages to see if I can figure out where your going with each series. It's a wonderful thing you two do. Now back to my searching.
I get more and more bitter by the day waiting for TWOW...I don't know how the people who started reading the series in the 90s do it...we're so impatient that we ended up with a RUclips channel because we needed the answers and spent so much time trying to figure out what was going to happen that we ended up thinking that we should figure out how to make videos to share what we thought we figured out
@theorderofthegreenhand thanks for enlightening me how masterful the lining up of the pieces GRRM did in that trial. Varys then Shae. Shae's reaction. Everything's gold.
Fantastic Breaking Bad references. I however have always imagined Oleanna wasn't breaking bad, she was already there. That woman would have been at home at the head of mob family.
Love the direction you're going with this, you've given me a new perspective on the dornish story line. While I love this story line and all of your videos, one of my favorite "factions" in westeros is Euron's iron born. The Forsaken chapter in particular from w.o.w. is especially interesting to me. Im hoping there is more coming about the iron born and this chapter in particular. Needless to say I am anxiously awaiting said video. Anyway I appreciate all your efforts and thanks for giving me your insight into ASOIAF
Seth Huntley my faction is STANNIS THE MANNIS except for when he is Stannis the fuck up actually know that I think about I'm more on his side cuz he is probably going to help Jon out and now that I think about it all his good decisions come from Jon or Davos.
24:50 Oh, that's quite normal. I also have a brain aneurysm whenever Cersei says anything(I'm 340 something pages into AFFC right now and probably would have had my head explıde if not for Kevan).
I love your guys channel because you don’t believe what the masses theorize about and you some pretty damn good logic to back up your theories which a lot I gotta say make me wonder how closely do people look at the text.
"Saaay eeeattt, you stole his accent! you mare dared eeeatt"! Great work greenhands. Very solid reasoning that the Martels knew exactly what was going down and when. Best ever! Love QOT.🌹 😊
if Spider and the Cheese merchant are one side of two party game, then it makes sense that Littlefinger worked with Doran who obviously was the second part - they played the game for so long, but I wonder who are the other players that got involved recently.
Paweł Wolnicki as Varys said this isn't a game for two players so they began to eliminate LF and Doran this especially shows in Essos regarding Daenerys and Aegon, Varys and Illyrio won that round
I like your video, but I still believe Qyburn is Doran's friend in court with his connection with the brave companions. Who has history working with Oberyn.
Guys...I think Brienne was not dead by hanging...she actually stopped and she even sent a letter to Jaime and Jaime even agreed to come meet her ..this was when Jaime got a letter from cersei asking for his help...he choose Brienne ask for help and came
Gift of Oberyn and the story he told made me think it was Martells that posined Joffrey but let Olenna believe they were the one who did that, and by putting the blame on them made Olenna bound to Littlefinger, I always saw her as a possible Lady Greenhand now how this will affect things?
The Order of the Green Hand right? What right Mountain has? And wouldn't that show Joffrey really has Lannister behind him and even his KG doubts him as true son, or weren't their loyalty be questioned by others - Cersei is more than half mad she would take it as a slight to her
the only thing I can think of is because Tyrion was the accused as opposed to when Cersei is later accused...as the queen regent, she had a KG as her champion, but in this case, Tyrion was the accused...I don't know, but those are technically different circumstances
I love how your videos tie into each other. You guys are clearly on to something in regards to the bigger picture. Two questions: Your intro and outro music is so epic. Was it something that you guys stumbled upon, or did you have someone compose it for you? Second question: Is there a chance that you will ever make a video about the Tyrells? Their house doesn't seem to get any love. I'm curious what they might be scheming now as their alliance with the Lannisters is falling apart. I keep thinking that Loras wasn't hurt as badly on Dragonstone as the reports say or that the hurt one wasn't him at all. I just can't figure out what the Tyrells would get out of this treachery, but maybe you guys can shed some light.
thank you...our music is something we bought, and we probably will do some Tyrell videos as some point...we're obviously more interested in the Gardeners than them, but they do seem destined to play a relatively large role moving forward so we would be derelict of our duties if we didn't cover them at some point...we definitely have a few topics in mind that we plan on covering before that though, like Euron, Patchface, another Littlefinger vid or two, Varys and Illyrio, but somewhere in the middle of all that dense material, the Tyrells might fit in there nicely as a break from all that scheming
Wolfsbane Alphas I wouldn't be surprised if the Tyrells threw their lot in with everyone, then just wait around and finally give their full support to the seeming victor. Loras is a sworn Kingsguard, but since Joffrey established a precedent by releasing Ser Barristan from his duties... who knows. They could attempt marrying her to Willas, but we all know that Dany likes a bit of fire in her men. Loras would fit the bill if she didn't see right through his preferences. Then again, I really wonder what Loras is up to, since I can't really imagine him as a skilled negotiator.
Vengeance served Tywin very well, when house Reyne insulted the pride of house Lannister. Tywin pulled them out root and stem and burned it to ash. He has yet to be punished for it. Tywin's house and his legacy is most important to him. So seeing that absolutely demolished as vengeance for the Martells is also a justice for the realm because of all the cruelty Tywin has brought onto others. He destroyed a house and his own house is destroyed.
TheLastSound it wasn't just an insult it was an attack. They declared war on The Lannisters because Tywin called for them to answer for their crimes. Which included treason, kidnapping and threatening the lives of three Lannisters. They had shown themselves to be defiant, greedy and treacherous over and over again. If Tywin had spared literally any of them they would only have held to the negotiated terms for as long as it took to recoup their losses, gather more support and try again (Balon Greyjoy is eerily similar to the Reynes in the nature of his rebellion and he told his daughter, "No man ever died of bending his knee. He who kneels today may rise again, sword in hand.") After all the fact that Tywin anticipated their declaration of war and blitzkrieged them is likely the only reason the Lannisters won. Otherwise the inverse of this might have happened to Tywin and his family.
What I'm trying to illustrate is the amount of unneeded cruelty towards others without him being punished for it for soooo long. There are other ways to make another house submissive or obedient without him fully annihilating them to the last the woman and child. He puts fear and terror in other houses with his actions with the purpose of creating order. The Reynes - nobody ever rebelled again. The sacking of Kings Landing and murder of Elia and her children - His house joined with the current king, making his daughter queen and his grandchildren kings, princes and princesses. The Red Wedding and almost annihilating the Starks - He won the war. He would have gotten away with Tyrion too if he wasn't freed. Only now is he being punished when he is an old man. In contrast Rob and Eddard always tried to deal justice fairly and bring order, but they got their heads lobbed off relatively quick. So there has to be something else going on than just the difference between vengeance and justice.
Isn't it overly complicated to have Tyrion as a part of this plot? The most obvious suspect is Oberyn himself, who would then demand trial by battle and get his confession from Gregor Clegane implicating Tywin, and get away with the assassination for free. The Tyrells would have had to keep quiet because Baelish tricked Olenna into joining the conspiracy. A Baelish-Martell alliance controls Dorne, the Riverlands, and the Vale, and has Myrcella Baratheon and Sansa Stark in their possession as well.
the reason we feel Tyrion getting framed has to be part of the deal is that in order for them to know Joffrey was going to die, which they certainly seemed to have known, they would have to be friends with Littlefinger, who knew they were framing Tyrion for it, and it seems unlikely that if he was going to tell Doran they were going to kill Joffrey, he would also tell him he was going to frame Tyrion
I really like the George quote at the end of the video. It is a murky picture. It seems like an extra variable to frame Tyrion in this way. Doran/Oberyn, Olenna, and Littlefinger get what they want whether Oberyn, Tyrion, Dontos, or the waiter is the culprit. If Tyrion had just played ball and gone to the Wall, only Tywin benefits. Maybe Tywin really wasn't sleeping with Shae, and she was just put there to send Tyrion over the edge to kill his father? But the idea was to take everything from Tywin and then kill him.
It's not that contrived or convoluted once you consider that Cersei's involvement all but ensures Tyrion will be suspected and accused by her unless Oberyn pops up and confesses while Joffrey is gasping his last.
Out of the maelstrom of rabbit hole questions going thru my mind, I have two for the comment section: 1.How much help/involvement did Doran lend Baelish in killing Jon Arryn? 2.Does Doran know about Myrcella's incestious birth? and if so...to what extant is he willing to allow trystane to be tied to her?
Well, the Tears of Lys are produced in Lys, mostly. And if Doran has good connections to the free cities, he'd easily be a able to get some for LF to poison Jon.
Bruce Waite Everybody who is intelligent knows about Myrcellas birth everybody else ignores it except maybe the Crownland lords I think Doran wouldn't care how attached Trystane got to her this is the man who has his son more scared of him than a literal dragon
The Order of the Green Hand A Storm of Swords and A Dance with Dragons are split into two books each so the set has seven books. And it seems the wording and spelling is more British than American. Also comes with a map of Westeros and the Free cities.
Hey Order of the Green Hand theirs a story in DCU that's about a Hero called the crow in which he is killed a magical crow revies the hero is capable of resurrecting people who have been unjustly murdered and/or have left behind a terrible sadness that prevents their soul from resting, so that person may be able to seek vengeance on the person or people responsible for their death and suffering. DO you think maybe the Three eyed crow is actual a good being just serving justice and vengeance for all the crimes that the Andals and all other people of the world have done?
And who are you the proud Lord said, that I must bow so low? Only the blood of a better coat, that's all the truth I'll know. In a coat, a black, a coat of red, the Dragon still has fire. And Fire is hot, and strong my Lord, stronger than a lion's claws. And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that Lord of Lannister, but now the flames scream o're his halls with no one there to hear, yes now the flames, scream o're his halls, and no more lions there to hear.
The only reason the mountain was used as the crowns champion was because cercei thought tyrion would call for a trial by combat and that he would for sure beat anyone that would be tyrions champion
Thanks so much. The next one should be online Monday. It’s already half written because it was originally supposed to be the grand finale of this one but we kept finding more stuff we wanted to get into this one and we eventually decided had to save it for next week
its our pleasure...we just want to figure out what the heck is going on in the series, and I have to give m'lady a lot of credit because she is by far the best researcher I've ever met...we think George deserves most of the credit though...he puts so much thought into every word he writes that he has essentially put together a 6000 page word puzzle for us to try to solve, and the challenge of trying to solve it is something we really enjoy
a few days ago I was talking about that with a fellow Dutchmen, and it is my personal opinion that it isn't a real World Cup if the Netherlands and the Italians aren't there
The Order of the Green Hand Yeah it kinda feels odd, but as somebody who lives in the Netherlands I gotta say it feels good, for once there won't be drunk people everywhere shouting like animals during the worldcup
The only complete theory of Joeffry’s poisoning that includes other many theories combined together. And it does make sense. narration in this video may seem a little difficult to follow. But it’s defineatly worth watching till the end. Great job and deep analysis, The Order Of The Green Hand! It was worth waiting for so long. Thank u!
I'VE BEEN AWAY FROM THE INTERNET FOR A WEEK! BUT WHEN I GOT THE NOTIFICATION THAT THE ORDER OF THE GREENHAND HAD A NEW UPLOAD, WELL I AIN'T GONNA LIE I POPPED SOME POPCORN AND SETTLED IN! P.S. sorry for the all caps but I knew we were in for deep analysis on the got back stories! Y'all are quickly becoming my favorite channel!
The Order of the Green Hand Thank you! Us book GAME OF THRONERS got to stick together! Y'all are putting out way higher quality content than 95% of these other channels! Especially the show only channels, if you bring up how the show contradicts the books they'll break out the pitch forks and and laterns and start a witch Hunt! I personally hope G.R.R.M TAKES THE OTHER books in a completely different direction kinda like an alternative reality deal! That'd be epic!
the next one is already half written...it was supposed to be the end of this one, but we kept finding more and more stuff we wanted to get into this one and next weeks topic ended up having to be cut
I guess I'm just going to sit tight 'till next week, then. Thanks for all the detail and thorough investigation, it adds up to truly wonderful content.
we're going to try to get back on our once a week, Monday releases again...the show threw us off our schedule and life has gotten in the way of us getting back to it, but we're determined to start getting content out more often and on a regular schedule
+The Order of the Green Hand : This is exactly why I abandoned my chance to make videos back when the TV series started in 2011. I had the best of intentions, but it was so, SO hard to wrap one up when there were so many avenues to go down. I simply could not make a short video - about ANYTHING - and now that the pros are here, I just sit back and watch :)
I don't think the annotation disproves the poisoning plot at all, if anything it just explains why he released his bowels. The purpose of Widow's blood was to cause the constipation. Even in the moment with the trial, Tyrion wonders if Tywin had been poisoned as well. A Slow acting poison would make Tywin suffer immensely while waiting for an opportunity to fight the Mountain, likely by trial by combat. I think there's room for the theory of Doran working with Littlefinger and thus Oberon knowing about the poison attempt on Joffrey. Just imagine how poetic it would be, to get the confession and then Tywin succumbs there after, stripping him of all he held dear bit by bit, before delivering the final blow.
Thank you. I think that might be a copyright violation though. Doing narration and character dialogue is a lot of fun. We really get into it in our TWOW prerelease chapter breakdowns
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhandi just find both of your voices really good at capturing what the characters tones and mannurisms would sound like when speaking. Hope that doesn't sound too weird.😂
hey guys,i've been waiting so eagerly for this video since the last one, i think it's one of the best series of this channel, along with the unlikely allies.Both add such a different look on the history being told. I wish you guys had a podcast, so we could dive in to every character the way you are doing with Doran, i could listen to it for ours. As always best wishes from Brasil...
Thank you Lucas! I have to admit that I am really proud of this series, because figuring out Doran has been like finding a needle in a haystack, but as the greatest writer that ever was or will be once said, the devil is in the details, which is very fitting in Doran’s case. So I’ll keep reading. A podcast would be cool! We are going to try and put weekly content out again now that I am feeling much better. Best wishes from the Wolf’s Den.
Oh, how i have longed for another video from the Order of the Green Hand! How does one initiate themselves in the Order? Imust know the mysteries! lol Joking aside, love this current series you guys are doing and can't wait for the next one!
Since you brought it cat. I thought of why people side with cat. If you see it in her point of view. Of course you would side with her. Its her point of view. Same as asking a psychopath why they kill and if you hear thier story. You will see why they think they did nothing wrong. Like with cat. Cersie is the same but at least she admits it. Thats why i like cersie. She is crazy but at least doesn't want to act dainty
I do have a question for the Order: Who is Varys, and what does he want? Where do his true allegiances lie? Is he for Blood and Fire🔥? Or is he for Darkness and Ice ❄? Like Doran... Does he embody the stranger? Or is he simply a very talented man... Caught in a dance of great powers... Trying to eek out a living on selling secrets?
no point risking oberyn's life? but doran loves risking his children's lives. thats like his go to move. sending people on deadly missions that they are not prepared for. thats the most doran thing ever
Great video as always! I think perhaps the plan wasn't necessarily for Tyrion to be accused for the murder, but Oberyn. After all, straight after telling Tyrion that story about the Lord Tyrell he says: " "To be sure, I have much to thank your sister for. If not for her accusation at the feast, it might well be you judging me instead of me judging you." The prince's eyes were dark with amusement. "Who knows more about poison than the Red Viper of Dorne after all?" " Especially with his wedding gift to Joffrey, there might have been enough evidence to take him to trial, where he would of course demand a trial by battle. This would more or less force the Lannisters to bring in the Mountain as there isn't really any other man in Kings Landing who could stand up to Oberyn in a fight. If the plan was actually for Tyrion to be accused, there doesn't really seem to be any need to have the Mountain come back to Kings Landing. Cersei could simply lie to Bronn that it was going to be the Mountain as a way of putting him off from fighting, leaving no one to stand for Tyrion. Once Bronn was out of the picture any man from the Kingsguard could have been good enough to stand as a champion and leave Tyrion 0% chance of winning by himself. It's only Cerseis recklessness in actually bringing the Mountain back and announcing to the throne room that he would be her champion that would make the plan succeed.
the issue with that is, if they knew Joffrey was going to be murdered, Littlefinger has to be the one who told them, and he was setting it up so Tyrion would be framed for it, so it seems unlikely that they wouldn't have also known that
True, at the very least Tyrion would be suspected of being an accomplice as the husband of Sansa, or suspected as the murderer himself. I just don’t get how they knew the Mountain would be called back as the champion, were they just banking on Cersei being so reckless?
during tyrion's trial when pycelle is listing his poisons. the only one he describes in detail is widow's blood. which has the same effect as what was plaguing tywin. i dont think thats random.
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand George does not explain anything. Its actually PYCELLE who explains why it was happening... so we just trusting pos maesters now? Damn lol.. Personally, I don't think I'm willing to rule it out. We definitely both have found ourselves buying into potentialities that are wayyyyy more of a stretch, LOL. Surely you can agree with that? Btw, Thank you for all the content to hold me over until TWOW!
Personally, I don't think Doran Martel is actually interested in justice or vengeance. I think he's a sociopath who is using it as an excuse to advance his own personal power. It doesn't change the theory all that much because his plan would be the same either way, but should a time come when Doran has to choose between vengeance and his own power, I definitely know which one he'll choose.
I'm such a ASOIAF nerd that I created a *Winter Rose* Foaming Bath Scrub at work 😂😂. It smells amazing. I actually spent a crazy amount of time researching what it could have smelled like. Lol. And I've got it. ... 😂😂
allyria stark I wish I could upload a picture on the comments here. It's really pretty. I made a scrub and some bath salts for it. Hopefully it sells this week in the mall at Corpus Christi. Most will buy it because it smells great and looks pretty... But there has to be some ASOIAF fans who will know what it is lol
You can get caught for something without actually getting it done like you can get caught trying to poison somebody without actually getting to successfully poison them. Also you can cancel a plan if you notice a better opportunity arise like Joffrey's death
Any chance you guys could make these a podcast too? I love listening to them, but hate having to keep youtube open all the time. Keep up the good work!
Tywin definitely looked like he drunk poison himself when he realised Oberon would fight Gregor. He would lose either way! Saw all your vids years ago! And all that blew my mind. Love how I can watch them again years later and have the same effect. Love you guys! Sorry I’m a poor tour guide plus staying as one in a pandemic. Otherwise would have donated hundreds to you guys LML and Quinn. Y’all are the small council in my head cannon
So worth the wait !! I've still got 4 minutes left lol but when you guys read the line about poisoned wine in a different light that's the perfect instance of people, myself included not seeing the more indirect meaning to things
when you look at that scene from the perspective of Tywin really wanting to avoid a trial by combat that allows Oberyn to gain access to the Mountain (who could publicly implicate Tywin) the scene really comes to life
The Order of the Green Hand you guys constantly shift my opinion on things like no other. Just by using the material and showing George could have this subtle foreshadowing and use of deception to build up to something grand. Within that grand story he's connected so many story arcs, like the use of the faith of the seven as a religious political tool
The Order of the Green Hand That's the perfect description lol I'm better for it every video. The other one I really loved was the rheager Tywin alliance. Adds so much depth to both characters
![Tee Grizzley - Robbery 8 [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/34_vkNV6wrU/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm enjoying the theory. The idea that everyone, Tywin included, wanted Joffery dead is an especially fun idea.
the idea of Doran martell and petyr baelish conspiring together invokes sooooo much Sith imagery
Something, something Dark Side. Something, something complete.
@@sethcruikshank6224 *PASSION*
It works as well with Doran being "the strangers" (who is also said to be the many faced god) pawn and Littlefinger being braavosi
@@gholamdapantaloonsniffer8218Always two there are, no more, no less.
Pycelle loved Tywin more than Cersei😂😂 #FACTS
"She was so busy hating Tyrion..."LOL typical Cersei
Pycelle jorah and Jon conigton are the biggest fanboys in this series
Don't forget Jaime, he's the biggest of them all!
"It was my hope to STRIP HIM OF ALL THAT HE HELD MOST DEAR before I killed him"...that sounds almost identical to part of the Valonqar prophecy. "Queen you shall be, until another, younger and more beautiful comes to cast you down AND TAKE ALL THAT YOU HOLD DEAR." Makes me wonder if Tyene Sand (who's said to be very fair, share her father's extensive knowledge of poisons, and is on her way to King's Landing) will be the one to take what Cersei holds dear by poisoning Myrcella or Tommen. Interesting...
hey m'lady...very interesting observation
I'm really enjoying this series! It's almost on par with your Catelyn Sucks videos. My elation at someone else sharing hatred for that wretched woman won't permit me to like any videos more than those😅. But these are great!!
thank you so much...I must admit, the Catelyn videos were probably more fun to make than anything else we've done...it was a real learning experience too...people flipped out on us when we made the first one, and by the time we finished the series, it seemed like half the internet all of a sudden hated her as much as we did
The Order of the Green Hand It shocks me how many people actually liked the character knowing full well how she treated Jon was bordering on abuse. Tormenting a motherless child should've told everyone all they needed to know about Cat. Your videos did an awesome job highlighting what the show hid. I don't see how anyone could hate y'all for it...the evidence is straight from the books.
for some reason, people reacted towards us as if we were hating on their mother...we actually thought making them was going to destroy our channel and we took a short break from her...then, when we came back at her, we did it with a really sarcastic tone, and all of a sudden, people were completely ok with us hating on her
Anyone who calls LF a friend is being used xD
Doran and Oleena smarter than that like to trust LF
He did business with Littlefinger. He respected Littlefinger. But Doran Martell never trusted Littlefinger.
this is a moment I actually feed bad for Tywin. Like he tried SO HARD but he failed SO BAD in raising his own kids and it just keeps coming back to bite him, so even though he does everything else expertly, he has to sit there and develop a freaking aneurism because his twins are morons, his daughter has no sense of discipline or honor, he spent so much money on an education that CLEARLY everyone but Tyrion ignored (because you KNOW he did), and then he trusted Circi to be a decent mother and raise a not monster child and instead she created Joffery and coddled him in his murderous ways.That man needs some morphine on a slow drip at this point.
Clare Kolodzik wow, people are really blindly in love with Tywin. Or is it Charles Dance, whose role is so much more sympathetic than the book countrepart. He is a toxic father who was unable to love or even notice his children, because he's broken and they pay the price. He is the very opposite of Ned, who loved his kids too much, which turned out to be just as harmful. The intentions make a whole world of a difference, don't they? When Tywin speaks "family", he means power and reputation and he fails to notice individual human beings behind the names, he is basically a Doran. People love to hate Cersei, but I wouldn't compare her to Starks or other characters. In a way she is still a heartbroken, grief striken little girl, frustrated with injustice of patriarchy she lives in. Unlike Tywin, she is MAD, so you shouldn't really expect much from her. She couldn't escape her life with Robert for an adventure, like Jamie did and she lost a child (and will lose two more) she saw as a purpose of her pain and humiliation. To a degree, everyone is what their family, fate and the culture makes them to be, some people are naturally more resistant, some aren't.
ocandro don’t get me wrong I hate Tywin- he has a whole host of issues and I don’t approve of plenty of things that he does. But in this one instance I really felt bad for him. Didn’t like him, but felt bad for him. As for Circi- I’ll say what I say about every character. At the end of the day, you make your own decisions, and you decide who you want to be. Doesn’t matter if the world is stacked against you (I’ve been in some pretty deep holes myself) you decide what that is going to make you. Circi let it make her a monster and she let it excuse her actions in her own mind. She’s responsible for that. She’s responsible for failing to raise Joffrey. Tywin is responsible for all his choices. One doesn’t excuse the other.
Clare Kolodzik Clare Kolodzik thanks for a civilised answer, so nice to see that in the internet.
I am not saying she doesn't make her terrible decisions or that fate has been particulary cruel to her. I just think her judgement is pretty impaired by her madness (which in her case is more of a brain health, maybe chemical imbalance or genetic issue in my opinion, but that's of course open to interpretation), which separates her from some other characters, who despite trauma, are still more or less capable of being rational. But I see now that perhaps we pretty much agree on both characters. I've been through crap after crap over the years too and my nervous system loves to work against me, but when I compare myself to friends with more serious mental conditions, I see how much more capable I am of controlling my life (for better or worse), at least most of the time.
Cheers
I agree with a lot of what you said about Cersei and her always seeking of Tywins approval she was also very envious of Jamie but the day she met the woods witch has had a massive impact on her life and is the major source of her paranoia
@@clare9621 and Cersei killed a girl at like 9 years old because she dare ask maggy if she’ll marry Jaime
That trial scene is so emotional on the surface, but wow now I have to go back and read it again with this new insight!
I love you guys I think hands down you Preston Jacobs and to a lesser degree in deep geek are the best Asoiaf theories 👍🏿
Add Alt shift X to that list.👌🏾
They do say that gout is a rich man's disease so the martells claiming poverty should already be BS
Then he said "no wonder you don't have it" so does that mean oberyan knows the lannisters are broke
That is just amazing. You have put together a cogent analysis that beautifully ties together the characteristics and motivations of these characters. Bravo!! I love your work so much you both do an extraordinary job!
thanks Steve
Pycelle loved Tywin more than anyone but for Tywin himself, lol.
I personally see Tywin as a very serious man who loved one person and one person only in his life...Joanna
Great video I really liked the Pycelle part he thought Tywin was the best ruler ever ... and I agree with him
Prince Doran Nymeros Martell- the gouty gremlin
So hooked on these videos. What really sells these theories to me is the visible amount of effort and passion that you guys have put into each and every single one of your works. I love the in-text examples, the narration and the artwork!
You guys just never stop being good. Thank you for another well reasoned and excellent video.
thank you for watching
A good add in is, with Martells wealth, it would explain LFs seemingly easy capacity for big picture elaborate expenditure. You don't go from zero to hero just like that, you require money to make money. It would make sense if Dorans bankrolling
I'm not downplaying Baelishs feats economically with how he's amassed vast wealth via investment / speculation / trade etc. but he did come from an impoverished house and had fallen out of favor with Lord Tully by that point
In a LF video they pointed out how Baelish has created dozens of silly sounding jobs with people that do not exist so he can steal money from the crown while that bordell serves as an explanation for his wealth.
Oh yeah, we've got no doubt LF is swindling financially from the crown coffers and has been doing all sorts of shady shit as Master of Coin.
Tyrion noticed discrepancies and got a headache looking at income / expenses of the IT, and couldn't make sense of it all in the short while he had to look into it
The amount of money hes used to pay people off or buy their loyalty is an extensive list. he's got his hands in cookie jars everywhere.
the revenue streams he was producing under Robert is telling as well, especially when it's told Robert was pretty much beggaring the realm with all his expenses.
we can reasonably suspect that cashflow the Iron Throne recieves from Baelish would stop producing once Martell plans grew to fruition and the chess pieces are all set. Cersei was using Lannister gold to fund everything in Feast if i recall correctly
if the martells are really peddling in flesh, its only a hop and skip to bankrolling LF's prostitutes. Heh, thats almost a money laundering scheme in itself
Exactly. The Martells are Baelish's bank, in the way that the Lannisters (and Bravosi Iron Bank) have been the bank to the Realm. The difference being, Littlefinger knows how to make money and also deliver the political gains the Martells desire as a return on their investment.
Dorne is truly one of the most ruthless areas in Westros. Its too bad they didn't have time. To get across how dangerous they actual are in the show.
It’s amazing how many details you guys found on a character I thought wasn’t completely flushed out and yet it now seems I may have been mistaken. Little Finger and Doran, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
thank you
Great video guys!
Have you noticed that, when Doran sends the Sandsnakes to King's Landing, he first says that, "Dorne still has friends at court" and then tells Lady Nym *one page later* that he needs "an ear at court". So what now? Does he have friends there or not? Well, maybe he doesn't have friends in the Small Council anymore, with Little Finger and Oberyn gone. That's why.
He also casually first
sent a person who hates the Lannisters because they killed his sister to a city full of Lannisters;
then,
he sends a person who hates the Lannisters because they killed her father to a city full of Lannisters.
Okay.
Nym being the daughter of Oberyn also is sure to annoy the Tyrells since Oberyn crippled Willas years back.
Btw. I wonder what the Faith might do to Tyene when they find out she isn't a maiden anymore and tends to poison people. Either they will kill her or welcome her as one of their own. The Andals never poisoned people, right? Oh wait, they did.
Potatosti tyene is not maiden who took her verginity?
It is heavily implied. Tyene and Arianna nearly had sex with Andrey Dault when they were really young, which I'd say is around 14 or 15. Arianna is around 23 or 24 during A Dance with Dragons, iirc. Tyene is the same age (which is why they are this close). Why would Tyene who was willing to have sex with ~14 years not find anyone to lose it to in the next 10 years?
Potatosti i see well there is something interesting here that arianna and tyene are close to each other so even though i hate the tv show don't you think that the fate of arianna and tyene are little bit spoiled in the show ellaria(character based on arianna) and tyene got captured by cercei who poisoned tyene and made elaria watch her die slowly
So it's grrm thing two close people watching themselves die and can't do nothing to stop it one is poisoned the other is let to starve to death
Always worth the wait; Doran and Littlefinger being in league with each other makes a lot of sense. Well done, love the QoT and Breaking Bad pics :)
we used to use a lot of pop culture but people didn't get it half the time and it seemed like it was more trouble than it was worth, but last week we were talking about Heizenburging the QoT and thought it would be hilarious so we went for it
You guys always get me looking back over the pages to see if I can figure out where your going with each series. It's a wonderful thing you two do. Now back to my searching.
At this point I'm more excited for the next book just so we have more material for you two to make more videos on than I am for the book itself!
I get more and more bitter by the day waiting for TWOW...I don't know how the people who started reading the series in the 90s do it...we're so impatient that we ended up with a RUclips channel because we needed the answers and spent so much time trying to figure out what was going to happen that we ended up thinking that we should figure out how to make videos to share what we thought we figured out
The Arianne chapter, the one that ends with the cyvasse table and the lion always gives me the shivers.
Let’s do this!! Thanks for the great content guys.
@theorderofthegreenhand thanks for enlightening me how masterful the lining up of the pieces GRRM did in that trial. Varys then Shae. Shae's reaction. Everything's gold.
Fantastic Breaking Bad references. I however have always imagined Oleanna wasn't breaking bad, she was already there. That woman would have been at home at the head of mob family.
Yes!! 27 minutes of pure awesomeness!!! Thank you good sir and kind mam!!! 😁
thank you
Easily the best asoiaf channel out there
Thank you Ser
My pleasure your Grace you need anything from House Stark just ask
Love the direction you're going with this, you've given me a new perspective on the dornish story line. While I love this story line and all of your videos, one of my favorite "factions" in westeros is Euron's iron born. The Forsaken chapter in particular from w.o.w. is especially interesting to me. Im hoping there is more coming about the iron born and this chapter in particular. Needless to say I am anxiously awaiting said video. Anyway I appreciate all your efforts and thanks for giving me your insight into ASOIAF
Euron is definitely on the shortlist of topics we want to cover when we're done with Dorne
Seth Huntley my faction is STANNIS THE MANNIS except for when he is Stannis the fuck up actually know that I think about I'm more on his side cuz he is probably going to help Jon out and now that I think about it all his good decisions come from Jon or Davos.
24:50 Oh, that's quite normal. I also have a brain aneurysm whenever Cersei says anything(I'm 340 something pages into AFFC right now and probably would have had my head explıde if not for Kevan).
I love your guys channel because you don’t believe what the masses theorize about and you some pretty damn good logic to back up your theories which a lot I gotta say make me wonder how closely do people look at the text.
Love this! More, more, more! Thank you! You are my favorite ASOIAF channel now btw!
thank you Heather...I'm already scripting Doran's Hidden Dagger as we speak...we're planning on it being online on Monday
The Order of the Green Hand aaah I think this series will continue until TWOW sample chapters right?
"Saaay eeeattt, you stole his accent! you mare dared eeeatt"! Great work greenhands. Very solid reasoning that the Martels knew exactly what was going down and when. Best ever! Love QOT.🌹 😊
thank you m'lady...did you like our Breaking Bad memes we made out of your likeness?
The Order of the Green Hand, uh oh, I haven't seen them yet...hope you weren't too savage. Where can I find them ? thanks love QOT.🌹
They are scattered throughout the video
The Order of the Green Hand oops, I was listening with earbuds, I'll watch too. oh, yes, I saw the ones with beautiful young women. .. love QOT.🌹 😆
Not gonna lie. Wasn’t too sure or convinced where this was going but you definitely swayed me by the end.
if Spider and the Cheese merchant are one side of two party game, then it makes sense that Littlefinger worked with Doran who obviously was the second part - they played the game for so long, but I wonder who are the other players that got involved recently.
Paweł Wolnicki as Varys said this isn't a game for two players so they began to eliminate LF and Doran this especially shows in Essos regarding Daenerys and Aegon, Varys and Illyrio won that round
I like your video, but I still believe Qyburn is Doran's friend in court with his connection with the brave companions. Who has history working with Oberyn.
Guys...I think Brienne was not dead by hanging...she actually stopped and she even sent a letter to Jaime and Jaime even agreed to come meet her ..this was when Jaime got a letter from cersei asking for his help...he choose Brienne ask for help and came
You guys do an excellent job on your videos. The level of depth and analysis is unmatched by anyone else on RUclips. Keep up the great work.
Thank you Ser Michael of House Clay
Gift of Oberyn and the story he told made me think it was Martells that posined Joffrey but let Olenna believe they were the one who did that, and by putting the blame on them made Olenna bound to Littlefinger, I always saw her as a possible Lady Greenhand now how this will affect things?
Shouldn't KG be the one champion their dead king? They failed to protect him let them fight for his justice
I can't believe how obvious that is now that you say it, but that hadn't occurred to me
The Order of the Green Hand right? What right Mountain has? And wouldn't that show Joffrey really has Lannister behind him and even his KG doubts him as true son, or weren't their loyalty be questioned by others - Cersei is more than half mad she would take it as a slight to her
I think you just won observation of the day
the only thing I can think of is because Tyrion was the accused as opposed to when Cersei is later accused...as the queen regent, she had a KG as her champion, but in this case, Tyrion was the accused...I don't know, but those are technically different circumstances
The Order of the Green Hand :'( I am so proud of myself my Lord and Lady :'( and damn George the devil is in the detail but don't overdo it lol
I love how your videos tie into each other. You guys are clearly on to something in regards to the bigger picture.
Two questions: Your intro and outro music is so epic. Was it something that you guys stumbled upon, or did you have someone compose it for you?
Second question: Is there a chance that you will ever make a video about the Tyrells? Their house doesn't seem to get any love. I'm curious what they might be scheming now as their alliance with the Lannisters is falling apart. I keep thinking that Loras wasn't hurt as badly on Dragonstone as the reports say or that the hurt one wasn't him at all. I just can't figure out what the Tyrells would get out of this treachery, but maybe you guys can shed some light.
thank you...our music is something we bought, and we probably will do some Tyrell videos as some point...we're obviously more interested in the Gardeners than them, but they do seem destined to play a relatively large role moving forward so we would be derelict of our duties if we didn't cover them at some point...we definitely have a few topics in mind that we plan on covering before that though, like Euron, Patchface, another Littlefinger vid or two, Varys and Illyrio, but somewhere in the middle of all that dense material, the Tyrells might fit in there nicely as a break from all that scheming
Camelia Berghean I can certainly see the Tyrell attempting to get on the Aegon train what with their alliance falling apart.
But what about Dany I mean couldn't loras marry her instead
Wolfsbane Alphas I wouldn't be surprised if the Tyrells threw their lot in with everyone, then just wait around and finally give their full support to the seeming victor. Loras is a sworn Kingsguard, but since Joffrey established a precedent by releasing Ser Barristan from his duties... who knows. They could attempt marrying her to Willas, but we all know that Dany likes a bit of fire in her men. Loras would fit the bill if she didn't see right through his preferences. Then again, I really wonder what Loras is up to, since I can't really imagine him as a skilled negotiator.
Vengeance served Tywin very well, when house Reyne insulted the pride of house Lannister. Tywin pulled them out root and stem and burned it to ash. He has yet to be punished for it.
Tywin's house and his legacy is most important to him. So seeing that absolutely demolished as vengeance for the Martells is also a justice for the realm because of all the cruelty Tywin has brought onto others. He destroyed a house and his own house is destroyed.
TheLastSound it wasn't just an insult it was an attack. They declared war on The Lannisters because Tywin called for them to answer for their crimes. Which included treason, kidnapping and threatening the lives of three Lannisters. They had shown themselves to be defiant, greedy and treacherous over and over again. If Tywin had spared literally any of them they would only have held to the negotiated terms for as long as it took to recoup their losses, gather more support and try again (Balon Greyjoy is eerily similar to the Reynes in the nature of his rebellion and he told his daughter, "No man ever died of bending his knee. He who kneels today may rise again, sword in hand.") After all the fact that Tywin anticipated their declaration of war and blitzkrieged them is likely the only reason the Lannisters won. Otherwise the inverse of this might have happened to Tywin and his family.
What I'm trying to illustrate is the amount of unneeded cruelty towards others without him being punished for it for soooo long. There are other ways to make another house submissive or obedient without him fully annihilating them to the last the woman and child. He puts fear and terror in other houses with his actions with the purpose of creating order.
The Reynes - nobody ever rebelled again.
The sacking of Kings Landing and murder of Elia and her children - His house joined with the current king, making his daughter queen and his grandchildren kings, princes and princesses.
The Red Wedding and almost annihilating the Starks - He won the war.
He would have gotten away with Tyrion too if he wasn't freed. Only now is he being punished when he is an old man.
In contrast Rob and Eddard always tried to deal justice fairly and bring order, but they got their heads lobbed off relatively quick. So there has to be something else going on than just the difference between vengeance and justice.
A t-shirt with olena saying I am the one who knocks that would be dope
Isn't it overly complicated to have Tyrion as a part of this plot? The most obvious suspect is Oberyn himself, who would then demand trial by battle and get his confession from Gregor Clegane implicating Tywin, and get away with the assassination for free. The Tyrells would have had to keep quiet because Baelish tricked Olenna into joining the conspiracy. A Baelish-Martell alliance controls Dorne, the Riverlands, and the Vale, and has Myrcella Baratheon and Sansa Stark in their possession as well.
the reason we feel Tyrion getting framed has to be part of the deal is that in order for them to know Joffrey was going to die, which they certainly seemed to have known, they would have to be friends with Littlefinger, who knew they were framing Tyrion for it, and it seems unlikely that if he was going to tell Doran they were going to kill Joffrey, he would also tell him he was going to frame Tyrion
I really like the George quote at the end of the video. It is a murky picture. It seems like an extra variable to frame Tyrion in this way. Doran/Oberyn, Olenna, and Littlefinger get what they want whether Oberyn, Tyrion, Dontos, or the waiter is the culprit. If Tyrion had just played ball and gone to the Wall, only Tywin benefits.
Maybe Tywin really wasn't sleeping with Shae, and she was just put there to send Tyrion over the edge to kill his father? But the idea was to take everything from Tywin and then kill him.
Maybe shae an agent of the three eyed crow or some other third faction that benefits from all this
It's not that contrived or convoluted once you consider that Cersei's involvement all but ensures Tyrion will be suspected and accused by her unless Oberyn pops up and confesses while Joffrey is gasping his last.
Hey, guys, this is off topic but I googled it and beware can mean take care of... Beware the mummers dragon
I love you for this right now.
Aegon is last of her family, take care of him, take care of each other :(
The Order of the Green Hand no prob bob
Out of the maelstrom of rabbit hole questions going thru my mind, I have two for the comment section:
1.How much help/involvement did Doran lend Baelish in killing Jon Arryn?
2.Does Doran know about Myrcella's incestious birth? and if so...to what extant is he willing to allow trystane to be tied to her?
Well, the Tears of Lys are produced in Lys, mostly. And if Doran has good connections to the free cities, he'd easily be a able to get some for LF to poison Jon.
I've been wondering the same thing about that Myrish lens, that was delivered to winterfell. i wonder what happened to that thing
I didn't even realize that Oo
Bruce Waite Everybody who is intelligent knows about Myrcellas birth everybody else ignores it except maybe the Crownland lords I think Doran wouldn't care how attached Trystane got to her this is the man who has his son more scared of him than a literal dragon
Fantastic. I've been waiting patiently for this video. This is a great series you have going here
thank you Ser Kay of House Lew...your comments are always much appreciated
The Order of the Green Hand Thank you and you're welcome. And I just got the U.K. edition of the book series btw. Really cool set.
is the UK edition different than the American? or just different covers?
The Order of the Green Hand A Storm of Swords and A Dance with Dragons are split into two books each so the set has seven books. And it seems the wording and spelling is more British than American. Also comes with a map of Westeros and the Free cities.
I might need to check it out
Yay! Somdthing to watch while I'm sick
Random I hope you feel better soon!
Great work as always. You guys take the analysis to a next level and do a great job of presenting it to fellow fans. Much respect from Brooklyn
The wait for this video was long and full of terrors. Only 30 seconds through but I know it'll be worth the wait
I'm going to assume Shae is the hidden dagger shot in the dark here but I think that's where you're going with this
no comment...until next week
The Order of the Green Hand I will let you handle it sensei.
Hey Order of the Green Hand theirs a story in DCU that's about a Hero called the crow in which he is killed a magical crow revies the hero is capable of resurrecting people who have been unjustly murdered and/or have left behind a terrible sadness that prevents their soul from resting, so that person may be able to seek vengeance on the person or people responsible for their death and suffering. DO you think maybe the Three eyed crow is actual a good being just serving justice and vengeance for all the crimes that the Andals and all other people of the world have done?
Ok guys you totally sold this. I am 100% buying and waiting for the next one. Fantastic work as always!
I'm an agent of chaos, you know the thing about chaos, it's fair.
You two are like the Mulder and Skully of asoiaf 💚
So so good. Missed you guys. 😊
And who are you the proud Lord said, that I must bow so low?
Only the blood of a better coat, that's all the truth I'll know.
In a coat, a black, a coat of red, the Dragon still has fire. And Fire is hot, and strong my Lord, stronger than a lion's claws.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that Lord of Lannister, but now the flames scream o're his halls with no one there to hear, yes now the flames, scream o're his halls, and no more lions there to hear.
The only reason the mountain was used as the crowns champion was because cercei thought tyrion would call for a trial by combat and that he would for sure beat anyone that would be tyrions champion
"Snatched the life out of Cersei's dumb ass." I'm screaming. Why is your following not larger?
The Green Hand is back!
💙 it! 👍Great summary/ analysis, thank you. Can't wait for next one
Thanks so much. The next one should be online Monday. It’s already half written because it was originally supposed to be the grand finale of this one but we kept finding more stuff we wanted to get into this one and we eventually decided had to save it for next week
The Order of the Green Hand you guys bring so much nuance & add so much texture to the stories of GRRM'S that I really must thank you!
its our pleasure...we just want to figure out what the heck is going on in the series, and I have to give m'lady a lot of credit because she is by far the best researcher I've ever met...we think George deserves most of the credit though...he puts so much thought into every word he writes that he has essentially put together a 6000 page word puzzle for us to try to solve, and the challenge of trying to solve it is something we really enjoy
Just because Doran wanted to strip Tywin of everything before killings him doesn’t mean Oberyn intended to be that patient.
I've been waiting for this!
LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!!!!
Awesome !!! Just rewatched the second one like 4 hours ago so this fits perfectly! You guys rock
thank you...my former main man Memphis had himself a day yesterday for your boys
The Order of the Green Hand Yeah Memphis is a beast, but what is beating Portugal 3-0 worth if you didn't even qualify for the world cup lol
a few days ago I was talking about that with a fellow Dutchmen, and it is my personal opinion that it isn't a real World Cup if the Netherlands and the Italians aren't there
The Order of the Green Hand Yeah it kinda feels odd, but as somebody who lives in the Netherlands I gotta say it feels good, for once there won't be drunk people everywhere shouting like animals during the worldcup
when I was there the world cup wasn't on and there were drunk people acting like animals in the streets...oh wait, that was us
nice job
You two do an awesome job of reading clues from the text.
Thank you
You people are fuckin' killing it. I love your theories.
The only complete theory of Joeffry’s poisoning that includes other many theories combined together. And it does make sense. narration in this video may seem a little difficult to follow. But it’s defineatly worth watching till the end. Great job and deep analysis, The Order Of The Green Hand! It was worth waiting for so long. Thank u!
I'VE BEEN AWAY FROM THE INTERNET FOR A WEEK! BUT WHEN I GOT THE NOTIFICATION THAT THE ORDER OF THE GREENHAND HAD A NEW UPLOAD, WELL I AIN'T GONNA LIE I POPPED SOME POPCORN AND SETTLED IN! P.S. sorry for the all caps but I knew we were in for deep analysis on the got back stories! Y'all are quickly becoming my favorite channel!
Haha. Apology accepted. And thank you
The Order of the Green Hand Thank you! Us book GAME OF THRONERS got to stick together! Y'all are putting out way higher quality content than 95% of these other channels! Especially the show only channels, if you bring up how the show contradicts the books they'll break out the pitch forks and and laterns and start a witch Hunt! I personally hope G.R.R.M TAKES THE OTHER books in a completely different direction kinda like an alternative reality deal! That'd be epic!
Great work, thanks for getting me through this long night!
These videos are some of your best work !!!!
Now I'm truly intrigued. Can't wait for the next installment, please don't take as long as with this one.
the next one is already half written...it was supposed to be the end of this one, but we kept finding more and more stuff we wanted to get into this one and next weeks topic ended up having to be cut
I guess I'm just going to sit tight 'till next week, then. Thanks for all the detail and thorough investigation, it adds up to truly wonderful content.
Starting to sound like George hahah just kidding, great videos take time
we're going to try to get back on our once a week, Monday releases again...the show threw us off our schedule and life has gotten in the way of us getting back to it, but we're determined to start getting content out more often and on a regular schedule
+The Order of the Green Hand : This is exactly why I abandoned my chance to make videos back when the TV series started in 2011. I had the best of intentions, but it was so, SO hard to wrap one up when there were so many avenues to go down. I simply could not make a short video - about ANYTHING - and now that the pros are here, I just sit back and watch :)
Very well done, just as always!!! It is joy to watch these videos!!! Keep going.
7:48: Jessie of House Pinkman.
I don't think the annotation disproves the poisoning plot at all, if anything it just explains why he released his bowels. The purpose of Widow's blood was to cause the constipation. Even in the moment with the trial, Tyrion wonders if Tywin had been poisoned as well. A Slow acting poison would make Tywin suffer immensely while waiting for an opportunity to fight the Mountain, likely by trial by combat. I think there's room for the theory of Doran working with Littlefinger and thus Oberon knowing about the poison attempt on Joffrey. Just imagine how poetic it would be, to get the confession and then Tywin succumbs there after, stripping him of all he held dear bit by bit, before delivering the final blow.
You guys should read the books and present it as an audiobook cause you guys are good. Dave does a good Tyrion.
Thank you. I think that might be a copyright violation though. Doing narration and character dialogue is a lot of fun. We really get into it in our TWOW prerelease chapter breakdowns
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhandi just find both of your voices really good at capturing what the characters tones and mannurisms would sound like when speaking. Hope that doesn't sound too weird.😂
hey guys,i've been waiting so eagerly for this video since the last one, i think it's one of the best series of this channel, along with the unlikely allies.Both add such a different look on the history being told. I wish you guys had a podcast, so we could dive in to every character the way you are doing with Doran, i could listen to it for ours. As always best wishes from Brasil...
Thank you Lucas! I have to admit that I am really proud of this series, because figuring out Doran has been like finding a needle in a haystack, but as the greatest writer that ever was or will be once said, the devil is in the details, which is very fitting in Doran’s case. So I’ll keep reading. A podcast would be cool! We are going to try and put weekly content out again now that I am feeling much better. Best wishes from the Wolf’s Den.
I’m guessing the hidden dagger is Shae?
you'll get your answer next week
That doesn't eliminate Tywin being poisoned. He had bowel problems before his death. That might be a sign of poison.
OMG! I wasn't expecting this!!! Will start watching right now ;)
Oh, how i have longed for another video from the Order of the Green Hand! How does one initiate themselves in the Order? Imust know the mysteries! lol
Joking aside, love this current series you guys are doing and can't wait for the next one!
Since you brought it cat. I thought of why people side with cat. If you see it in her point of view. Of course you would side with her. Its her point of view. Same as asking a psychopath why they kill and if you hear thier story. You will see why they think they did nothing wrong. Like with cat. Cersie is the same but at least she admits it. Thats why i like cersie. She is crazy but at least doesn't want to act dainty
They *hanged Brienne and Pod.
Also, your audio quality continues to improve.
Loving this series!
Hey Scotty! hope you're doing well. Always nice to run into you on the boards, love QOT.🌹 😊
Doing great m'lady. Hope you are too. Always nice to get a rose from the Queen of Thorns : ) thank you!
I do have a question for the Order: Who is Varys, and what does he want?
Where do his true allegiances lie? Is he for Blood and Fire🔥? Or is he for Darkness and Ice ❄?
Like Doran... Does he embody the stranger?
Or is he simply a very talented man... Caught in a dance of great powers... Trying to eek out a living on selling secrets?
Varys is Littlefinger and Doran's counterpart on the other side
or I guess I should say that Varys and Illyrio are Littlefinger and Doran's counterparts
The Order of the Green Hand HMMMM.
Would we get the pleasure of a video... Or is that not written in the stars?
We are definitely going to cover Varys soon
The Order of the Green Hand *Channelling Mr. Burns* Exxxxcellent
Awkward moment when the new order of the green hand video dropped n u have no headphones at work😅😅😔
no point risking oberyn's life? but doran loves risking his children's lives. thats like his go to move. sending people on deadly missions that they are not prepared for. thats the most doran thing ever
Great video as always! I think perhaps the plan wasn't necessarily for Tyrion to be accused for the murder, but Oberyn. After all, straight after telling Tyrion that story about the Lord Tyrell he says:
" "To be sure, I have much to thank your sister for. If not for her accusation at the feast, it might well be you judging me instead of me judging you." The prince's eyes were dark with amusement. "Who knows more about poison than the Red Viper of Dorne after all?" "
Especially with his wedding gift to Joffrey, there might have been enough evidence to take him to trial, where he would of course demand a trial by battle. This would more or less force the Lannisters to bring in the Mountain as there isn't really any other man in Kings Landing who could stand up to Oberyn in a fight.
If the plan was actually for Tyrion to be accused, there doesn't really seem to be any need to have the Mountain come back to Kings Landing. Cersei could simply lie to Bronn that it was going to be the Mountain as a way of putting him off from fighting, leaving no one to stand for Tyrion. Once Bronn was out of the picture any man from the Kingsguard could have been good enough to stand as a champion and leave Tyrion 0% chance of winning by himself. It's only Cerseis recklessness in actually bringing the Mountain back and announcing to the throne room that he would be her champion that would make the plan succeed.
the issue with that is, if they knew Joffrey was going to be murdered, Littlefinger has to be the one who told them, and he was setting it up so Tyrion would be framed for it, so it seems unlikely that they wouldn't have also known that
True, at the very least Tyrion would be suspected of being an accomplice as the husband of Sansa, or suspected as the murderer himself. I just don’t get how they knew the Mountain would be called back as the champion, were they just banking on Cersei being so reckless?
Cersei is unbelievably predictable...it is also possible that Oberyn suggested it to her himself when they talked
When you read Tyron's confession after explaining the setting got me so high... Mind blown.
Finally some clarity in ASOIAF
during tyrion's trial when pycelle is listing his poisons. the only one he describes in detail is widow's blood. which has the same effect as what was plaguing tywin. i dont think thats random.
While that’s true, George went out of his way to explain why Tywin was rapidly decomposing and it had nothing to do with poison
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand George does not explain anything. Its actually PYCELLE who explains why it was happening... so we just trusting pos maesters now? Damn lol..
Personally, I don't think I'm willing to rule it out. We definitely both have found ourselves buying into potentialities that are wayyyyy more of a stretch, LOL. Surely you can agree with that?
Btw, Thank you for all the content to hold me over until TWOW!
Personally, I don't think Doran Martel is actually interested in justice or vengeance. I think he's a sociopath who is using it as an excuse to advance his own personal power. It doesn't change the theory all that much because his plan would be the same either way, but should a time come when Doran has to choose between vengeance and his own power, I definitely know which one he'll choose.
I'm gonna guess that Shae is the "hidden dagger".
Damn when is the Order of the Green ✋ gonna make another video...I recant 🙌
I'm such a ASOIAF nerd that I created a *Winter Rose* Foaming Bath Scrub at work 😂😂. It smells amazing. I actually spent a crazy amount of time researching what it could have smelled like. Lol. And I've got it. ... 😂😂
hahaha...you actually made this?
real winter roses are hellebores and they are black and sometimes poisonous, take care
The Order of the Green Hand I actually did lol. And yeah.. I'm only talking about Winterfell's Winter Rose..lol.
Gaming With A White Guy oh okay it must be beautiful
allyria stark I wish I could upload a picture on the comments here. It's really pretty. I made a scrub and some bath salts for it. Hopefully it sells this week in the mall at Corpus Christi. Most will buy it because it smells great and looks pretty... But there has to be some ASOIAF fans who will know what it is lol
You can get caught for something without actually getting it done like you can get caught trying to poison somebody without actually getting to successfully poison them. Also you can cancel a plan if you notice a better opportunity arise like Joffrey's death
Any chance you guys could make these a podcast too? I love listening to them, but hate having to keep youtube open all the time. Keep up the good work!
Tywin definitely looked like he drunk poison himself when he realised Oberon would fight Gregor. He would lose either way!
Saw all your vids years ago! And all that blew my mind. Love how I can watch them again years later and have the same effect.
Love you guys! Sorry I’m a poor tour guide plus staying as one in a pandemic. Otherwise would have donated hundreds to you guys LML and Quinn. Y’all are the small council in my head cannon
So worth the wait !! I've still got 4 minutes left lol but when you guys read the line about poisoned wine in a different light that's the perfect instance of people, myself included not seeing the more indirect meaning to things
when you look at that scene from the perspective of Tywin really wanting to avoid a trial by combat that allows Oberyn to gain access to the Mountain (who could publicly implicate Tywin) the scene really comes to life
The Order of the Green Hand you guys constantly shift my opinion on things like no other. Just by using the material and showing George could have this subtle foreshadowing and use of deception to build up to something grand. Within that grand story he's connected so many story arcs, like the use of the faith of the seven as a religious political tool
we just want to figure out what is going on, and when we think we've stumbled onto something cool, we make a video or 10 about it
The Order of the Green Hand That's the perfect description lol I'm better for it every video. The other one I really loved was the rheager Tywin alliance. Adds so much depth to both characters
The Order of the Green Hand I saw your guys Twitter update. Are we getting one soon ?