Someone may have already said this, but what if "Dayne" is an old word for "Dawn," making House Dayne, "House of the Dawn" or "House of the Rising Sun." 😱
him...every time we research for a video, we find things that it almost seems impossible that he didn't at one point read...and he did it seemingly with every aspect of the story...the more research we do, the more we understand why his books take so long
But cant it just be one big coincidence? I mean It doesn't take long to come up with names like jon, starfall, winterfell and people don't really know the name Sirius these day unless you watch harry potter. Or he just likes to be cryptic just to screw with us and possible to see what kind of theory people will make from his books.
spiritwatcher you sound like someone who has never written anything, nor grasped the concept of the immense amount of time, research, language study, and long term planning that goes into writing fantasy books with complex histories and characters as in ASOIAF
@@witdajuice6763 I agree. And it takes geniuses like these two, The Order of the Green Hand to break it down the way they do. I mean, the angles which they delve into to bring clarity to us is just amazing. Kudos TOotGH.
Pandemic reader over here! I am getting through your videos fast! I'm curious if you get into the symbolism of the gemology George includes? Crystals have quite a bit of lore around them that may provide hints. Black stones (Jet, Onyx) protect against demonic possession and other evils, Lapis can represent apt businesspeople etc. Forgive me if I just haven't gotten there yet. Or missed it. I absolutely LOVE your work and I am convinced you two are on to GRRM. Great work!
Dawn = Jedi Lightsabre crystal Valeryan Steel = Sith crystal The Valeryans wanted to artificially create swords like Dawn to be prepared to fight the others again. "The dragons know..." but maybe the dragon riders forgot...
If he really considered all this... it's no wonder his books take so long to write. He'd actually be a quick writer given all the thoughts that'd go into this.
He saw a meteor, followed it's trajectory, and found it's landing site. Or, the more likely explanation, he literally fell from space. xD And people say Preston has crazy theories. But, as a huge fan of the books I enjoy all theories if they are well thought out.
in my research on meteors, I found that small meteors don't leave a trail that can be followed because it disappears in minutes, and doesn't impact with enough force to be able to find it afterwards unless you were standing right there...a large meteor has a trail that lasts for a few hours, but in order for it to have a trail that lasts long enough to follow on foot or horseback, it would have impacted with the force of a small nuclear bomb...we're not saying he fell from space...we're saying he was a god that descended from the stars
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand you contradict yourself. You claim that it makes an explosion with a size similar to that of a nuclear weapon. Is it possible that even if you are far away, if you are an epic hero, that you might see it at a far distance. Wonder "What the **** was that?!" and ride to investigate? If you then, in the general direction of the huge explosion you saw, find an area that is completely burnt is it possible that you travel to the center of this area to find out what has been going down?
@@petterbystrom9946 I never said the explosion is the size of a nuclear weapon...I said it hits with the force of a small nuclear weapon...and the legend literally says the guy followed the path of a falling star...that seems to imply that he followed the tail, which would usually be gone within minutes, which is why we think the guy would have had to have been pretty close to where it landed in order for that to happen, and therefore in an area where he would, at the very least get hit hard by the shockwave caused by the impact
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand The path in no way implies a trail I'm afraid. I really like most of your theories but this one as well as little finger being in cahoots with the three eyed Raven are just too crazy. GRRM seems to prefer magic like Gandalfs Magic. You can't really tell what it does. It's just... Magic.
@@petterbystrom9946 first of all, thank you...that's very much appreciated...the LF being in cahoots with the 3EC stems from the idea that he can, and does penetrate people's dreams...how he does it (glass candle or simply having the ability) is up for debate, but we're very confident he has that ability...the Ned chapter in the Black Cells has us convinced beyond reasonable doubt...this theory kind of ties into a Thor's Hammer like idea, or Excalibur from Arthurian legend...Dawn is treated like it's a God's weapon...you have to be worthy of it to wield it, and there aren't many examples of Sword's of the Morning in the histories, which seems to suggest that it often sits idle for hundreds of years waiting for a worthy candidate to present himself...there is no other weapon in the series that is treated this way...George has created fascinating ancient histories, all of which seem to include mythological demi-god-like characters...if this were historical fiction, they'd obviously be immediately dismissed as nothing more than legends, but this is a fantasy story...why have these ancient characters in a fantasy story if they aren't real? that's the beauty of fantasy...magical beings and characters are real in fantasy...we tend to think of the story as one in which history tends to repeat itself, and the descendants of these ancient demi-gods will have to rise to the occasion and fill the shoes of their ancient demi-god ancestors in order for mankind to survive the War to Come and win the new Battle for the Dawn...that would very likely make Dawn and the office of Sword of the Morning a central storyline in the pages to come, whereas the Iron Throne and mankind's struggle for power, money and glory filled the large portion of the storyline previously...getting back to Dawn being a God's weapon...that would require the first Sword of the Morning (the guy who either forged it or was the first to wield it) a god, which is sort of the point of this video...that and the Gods being closely associated with the stars
I love the quote at the end. Especially the part emphasising Benjen. It backs up the Stark family's importance in the wars to come without lying about Jon's parentage, with nephew potentially meaning Ed or Lyanna. Just damn good writing.
Now my GOT comment. This video, and all your descriptions of the "shooting stars", have reaffirmed my thought that Ashara Dayne is not dead. Septa Lemore= Pale Meteors. A pale meteor is on the Dayne sigil. Ashara is Septa Lemore.
Lady Green Hand has been trying to make an anagram out of Septa Lemore since we read the books the first time...she looks like if she could give you a cross country kiss right now, she would
Aww I love it! Mary Ellen is awesome❤. Another one is Septa Lemore= Team Elopers. Ned and Ashara eloped. It also could be argued that the anagram is applicable to Lyanna, because she and Rhaegar likely eloped as well. Which in a way does fit with the assertion of Lyanna giving birth Aegon. If Lyanna did give birth to Aegon, it would make sense that she'd be traveling with him.
The Order of the Green Hand hey guys there's one ugly roach in the rushes. Tyrion describes Septa Lemore as "past forty". But Ned was 35. So how can she be Ashara? Was Tyrion wrong?
Lilli03071 Ashara I never bought as Quaithe, simply because Dany wouldn't recognize Ashara, so Ashara wouldn't need to hide her face. Also, Quaithe is a shadow binder. I don't recall Ashara ever being mentioned to dabble in dark arts. I think Quaithe could be Shiera Seastar. The sea star is another name for the North Star, which people use to guide them when they are lost, particularly when lost at sea. Quaithe tells Dany directly that she wants "to guide her". Whenever Dany is feeling lost as a leader or literally is lost, Quaithe comes to her. At the end of ADWD, Dany is lost in the Dothraki sea. She has a dream in which "she was flying once again, spinning, laughing, dancing, as the stars wheeled around her and whispered secrets in her ear." Dany calls to her, and next thing you know "then she saw. Her mask is made of Starlight. Remember who you are Daenerys. The dragons know. Do you?". So, I say all this to say, when Dany was 'lost at sea', the sea star appeared to guide her. Also, back at the beginning when the red comet is scene, the Dothraki called it "shierak qiya". The name Shiera is actually in that word. Dany thinks she is meant to follow that star, and she does. So it could be said "shierak" is literally guiding her. Which Quaithe tells Dany is her purpose. I connect the dots to fit with Shiera, but truly none of us knows for sure. That's the beauty of Martin's writing; two people can read the same thing and get two different meanings.
One of my most favorite topics in the books..House Dayne and Dawn🌠 So much mystery there and so many theory paths to go down. I loved this before I even watched it. I am so glad I found your channel. Such great stuff! 💜
You are undoubtedly THE BEST 'ASOIAF' theorists in the game today. The colossal effort you put into your research is ridiculous (for lack of a better word) and has not gone unnoticed, you are truly appreciated. Your principled explanations are always backed by undeniable sense and logic. I sometimes find myself wanting to disagree and failing miserably to, you are always giving us concrete and pragmatic propositions to mull over. Thank you very much for bringing us clarity to a Song of Ice and FIre.
So Dawn is described by Ned as "pale as milkglass, alive with light". There are two other mentions of the expression "alive with light" in AGOT: 1) to describe the seven-sided crystal used for the worship of the Seven, 2) Jon's description of the Wall: "it shone, alive with light, a colossal blue-white cliff that filled up half the sky." Maybe there's a link between the two? Valeryan steel is made with a combination of fire magic and blood magic, and is blackish. I believe the Wall and Dawn could be made out of a combination of ice and blood magic, with a ritual known by mankind or the cotf (or both) at some point in history. Also, you probably know that ASOIAF was supposed to be a trilogy, at first. When ASOS came out, a description of the book at Amazon - which was promptly removed (can't find the reference right now, sorry) went something like: "with a dramatic ending at Starfall"...
Amazing video! Quick question/clarification: do you suggest that a Great Dayne fell to Westeros with Dawn, or that Dawn is more Arthurian in nature? (excuse the pun) While you make a suggestive case for the Great Dayne being a literal god, I couldn't help but get the feeling that Dawn itself was the fallen star and a Dayne happened upon it at Starfall and claimed it. This could still fit the Sword of the Morning = Azor Ahai narrative. I think that Rhegar would have made a connection between Dawn and Lightbringer while reading the prophecy. Both Ser Arthur and Lady Ashara were besties with Rhegar and Elia afterall...
Incredible video. Your efforts are appreciated. I would love to know what you think about the character Edric Dayne, who they call Ned. He is so mysterious. If Eddard Stark was the reasoning behind Ashara's suicide - which I don't believe to be the case - why name the kid, Edric? What did Ned Stark do to earn such an honour?
that is something we tried to shout from a mountain top when we first got started...I want to say it is included in part 2 of our N+A=J series but I could be wrong...we think Ashara is alive and is Septa Lemore and Aegon is R&L's son, and she went with him into exile because having purple eyes would make it possible for her to pose as his mother, and having just given birth to Jon, she was also able to care for the baby...its a lot more complicated than my one sentence explanation and makes more sense in the context of the rest of the series if you are interested
What if the first Dayne was just a dragonlord from Valyria, and was able to follow the "falling star" because he was riding his dragon. That would also account for being able to approach the fiery explosion, and then he would have used the same "magical" smithing techniques as with valyrian steel, but using the "meteoric steel" instead, which would account for Dawn having the same properties as valyrian steel, yet look different due to having an otherworldly "base material". After all, members of House Dayne are portrayed as having valyrian features (purple eyes, silver hair), and these features, i think, are what define their banner... lilac background = lilac/violet eyes, white star and sword = platinum/silver hair. Just a thought, or two... Anyway, congrats to the creators of this channel. You're doing an awesome job, thank you :D
Alin Lacatus could work if Dayne family were really of Valyrian descent but they are descendants of First Men along with other great houses of Westeros
As always another great video! I've been in a rehab for ten months where I got my life back in order so I'm late on alot of these. But I'm catching up and trying to keep up with the livestreams. Believe it or not when I'm having a bad day I just go on RUclips and go straight to ser and m'lady. Love you guys!! Keep em coming!!
Another awesome video. You guys make incredible material it always leaves me wanting more. I really appreciate the time and detail that you put into each video. I can't wait to see what's next. Thank you
Always makes my day to get a new vid notification from Order of the Greenhand!!!!! I seriously freakin love you guys, lol, my most favorite ASOIAF channel, with Preston Jacobs coming in close second, lol....And these Old Powers are Waking videos are probably my favorite series of your videos, and that's saying a lot since I have watched and re-watched every video you've made, each time with just as much excitement and intrigue lol... I've been commenting on all Preston's new videos, asking him to do a collab with you guys, so I figure I should comment here too lol, but I think it would be EPIC to hear you guys wax theories together, especially since I feel like the three of you are some of the most critically thinking and observant ASOIAF creators out there, even if you guys don't agree on everything, I just think it would be so cool to hear you guys converse about it all!!! As always, awesome video, awesome work
19:50 I gotta say, this narrative is much more appealing ... Jon Snow reborn as Jon Stark, and is bestowed the sword Dawn and the title of Sword of the Morning, through his mother Ashara Dayne, and fights the Others in The New War for the Dawn.
I don't think you could rule that out. Think it's Preston Jacobs that is convinced the WoI&F is a sci-fi universe. All these references to start beings and travel are adding weight to that theory.
great video guys! I really loved it and the timing was good as well... I can't express how much happy that notification of a new video made me, you guys are awesome and I can't wait for the next one.
The Order of the Green Hand in that case please, if u have other ideas like that drop even if it's random but please give me more TOOTGH juice, I've just read in the comments that there's 10 times more info that in this video, is there's any chance that we'll see it?
This is my absolute favorite video so far. If Jon isn’t a Dayne, I’ll be devastated. Him becoming the next Sword of the Morning is just an ultimate plot point.
Another great video folks! You do us all a great service! Just one thing: when you say the Egyptian texts are the oldest on earth - Summerian texts pre-date Egyptians by around 1000 years, and are the oldest known human texts in existence. "And in this year the Kingship came down from heaven..." It was from their texts and laws that Egypt and Babylon drew their own codes of conduct and decency. Very interesting reading...
One of the articles we used said the Pyramid Texts were the oldest, but I have to admit that until a few months ago I hadn't thought about any of this stuff since high school history class so it is entirely possible that the article was wrong...it is disappointing though because we try to use reputable sources...I think I found that in a Forbes article or on a University's website
+The Order of the Green Hand I'm not trying to criticise, nor condescend! I hope you believe me! I love what you do and offer a new line of thinking to many theories, whether they are popular or not - it's all interesting. I was just offering some info to help on what is already a well produced product. Just when I see info I feel (may be) incorrect I can't help but put my own two groats in lol. Wasn't so much being "pernickety" as offering new direction of thought. Keep up the good work and can't wait for the next vid! (",)
Hey guys, I just want to say that thanks to you I bought the first book. I've been watching the show since about S3 and have been passionate about it since just about everyone that watches it. I've looked at some of the common theories (LR=J...) from time to time because it was fun. I've discovered your channel just some days ago and have been watching about 5 or 6 videos that I've really enjoyed. Naturally I'm missing a lot since I only watched the show and I don't understand everything you point out, or the families, etc, but I still see the connections that you make and I find them fascinating. So yesterday I went to the library and bought the first book in english (I'm french) so that I wouldn't miss any subtlety from the author's writing. I've only started reading yesterday for a few pages but I'm definitely gonna end up reading everything in a few weeks. Thanks a lot to both of you for your great work and making me want to start reading the books
I always thought that the falling star was a small metallic meteor that was seen, and heard, then the Dayne tracked it down and found a large enough piece to make a sword and built his city there. Dawn is said to be a great sword. Practical great swords weighed up to 6 or so pounds. That doesn't require a very big meteor. All maps that I have seen of the Torentine river region lack an impact crater. I have seen estimates of 100-200 km distance for seeing a shooting star, so he wouldn't even have to be close, and from that distance by the time he got to the impact site, it would have cooled. I don't want to poo-poo a god in a story with magic, ice demons, dragons, undead, skin changers, telepaths, and time reversing magic stone pirate guys, just that it didn't have to be more than a normal human to be that house Dayne founder. Also, why would a god use a sword? Once again, I apologize for always seeming negative in my comments. This is my favorite channel for this stuff, always new ideas and hypotheses to play with. I had to look up meteor impacts , check out Purdue University's Impact: Earth! for some cool meteor impact analysis.
The crater is dependent on the size, speed, and angle at which the object strikes. The material of the object and what it hits probably play a factor as well. I am FAR from an expert on this, but there are a lot of resources online that can explain and show impacts. I think there is probably a misconception in general about impacts because we all have seen Crater Lake, the surface of the Moon, and heard about an extinction level event meteor that ended the Cretaceous period, and seen movies like Armageddon. Most objects that enter Earth's atmosphere are much, much smaller. A meteor of "substance X space metal," that made Dawn would only have to leave about 6 pounds of metal to create such a sword, if it were the size and weight of historic great swords. For comparison, a typical bowling ball weighs 10-16 pounds. Such an object would probably be a big problem for whatever it landed on, and likely make a lot of noise, and be quite hot, but is unlikely to create a hellish landscape. And there is no evidence given that shows any type of impact crater in that area. That leads me to believe that the impactor was small.
Dave C I totally agree and before I saw your comment, i was basically about to write the same. You were talking about greatsword but Dawn ain't even one. Arthur Dayne wields Dawn with a single hand, which is totally impossible for it's weight! some would say It's meteor an it culd be as light as Valyrian steel, but one of the true greatsword we see in Game Of Thrones is Ice, and even though it was made of Valyrian steel, Ned could not use it in battle for it was too heavy and impracticle. That's precisly why it was reforged into two swords. EDIT: FYI These swords are called Longswords
I have a degree in astrobiology, and I've taken astronomy and planetary geology as a part of that. Meteorites tend to be cool when they land, especially if they are small, since the hot parts peel away (like the heat shield of space shuttles on reentry). Gigantic meteorites cause fires not through their impact but their entry into the atmosphere. The friction heats the air around the meteorite, and flammable things catch fire because of the heated air.
This, so much this. Why isn't this top comment yet? I was about to leave a comment incredibly similar, only probably not as good. Also I would like to theorize further (so put your tinfoil hat on) that the founder of the house, based on the location of where Starfall is, could have been travelling between Old Town and Essos (maybe even Yi Ti) by ship when he saw the meteorite fall. It would allow him to more easily pinpoint it's location from the sea and navigate to it quickly, even if he was quite a distance away. Much easier than by land, through the mountains. It sounds a bit more plausible than a god, I think. Still this is not the first theory I've heard where the Daynes are thought to be descendants from a god and their links with Yi Ti, specifically the Amethyst Empress. It could just be legends or there could be some truth to it, even if it just a little. There is plenty of magic in that world after all. Also imagine if they had some sort of compass on their ship and the meteorite either magnetically or magically attracts it. Although Dawn would be kind of useless if it was magnetic. You would never get the swords off each other if they clashed or off armour...
Actually, a practical greatsword would weight about three pounds. Any more and the weapon become very hard to handle effectively. Two handed longsswords, like an Oakeshott Type XVII or XVIII wouldn't weight much more than three pounds, as surviving specimens in museums attest, and many weight just under that. 677777777777tfrg. 66qw22qIndeed, the feders that we use in HEMA training are of similar weights and dimensions. Now, a bearing sword, which is a ceremonial sword not intended for battle, would weigh much more. Also, Ned Stark's Ice was clearly a very heavy, large weapon but again, wasn't really meant as a combat weapon. It's made clear in the books that Ned and his Stark forebears would take other weapons into battle, handier swords than the large and massively slow Ice.
Thank you so much...we tried to find time to do one a few months ago but we're both slammed at our real jobs and have barely had enough time to put our weekly video out...we're thinking we might have time for one or two this summer
NP i hope it all goes well. Don't work yourselves to the bone :P i'm a huge fan and have heard every word you two have spoken on this platform. Your diligence is much appreciated
ooor the original dayne was a regular person who wasnt traveling alone (that was never stated) who happened to be very near the impact location of a meteor too small to cause a crater, but large enough to survive the fall and retain enough heat to start a bush fire. perhaps he was just a few miles from where it landed, it caused a fire on the island so he knew it was over there, and his group took their time crossing the river perhaps with rafts. they found the rock in the middle of the ashes of burned plants, and made a sword from it later
small meteors (like what you described) leave a trail that disappears in minutes and don't cause enough damage to find the location where it hit unless you saw it hit...so there would be no way he could follow the path of a fallen star unless it was big enough to leave a trail that could be followed
It didn't have to leave anything lasting, just the streak as it entered through the atmosphere would be enough to "follow a trail", and it could start fires without creating a crater. Not surprising a group of people were at the mouth of a river.
OR... the first Dayne was a greenseer and could astroproject or whatever. Just as Bran is 1000 miles above the ground... couldn't Bran have "followed the path of a falling star" from there? and then gone to investigate?
Another great video. Truly amazing breakdowns and comparisons. You guys really do your homework and it's appreciated! The best Game of Thrones channel on the tube.
Thank you so much....we try to get as much information as possible together before making a theory, and incorporate as much as we can get into each video without sounding like we're reading you guys a textbook
When I was listening to your video I kept thinking of Stardust, in which a star falls from the heavens in the form of female personification of that star called, Yvaine. Which then made me think of how lightbringer was said to be tempered, in the blood of his wife Nissa Nissa. I'm now wondering if Nissa was actually the star/goddess that fell to the earth (instead of the god you proposed), and fell in love with the first lord of Starfall. This would explain why Azor Ahai had to kill his wife because she was the true essence of the star, and it is said her soul combined with the steel of the sword. She also seems to be related to the heavens in some way, with the story saying that the moon cracked after this act. Dayne's are described to have Valyrian features but GRRM says they are not of Valyrian decent, but if they are the children of a fallen star I'd say their features would make since (white is what I'd think of for a fallen star to have). I'm wondering if the star came down to end the long night by testing and finding a man worthy to be a hero. Once she found one, she led him back to where she fell, to forge the sword needed by her chosen hero. I believe the story says "he knew before hand", because she told him that she'd be needed to forge the sword. But since he loved her he tried the other two methods first in order to save her. Since I was hoping her name would help this theory I discovered these various meanings such as goal, beginning, sign, woman, end, friendly elf/fairy, and even test by some sources. But the meanings seem to be a bit obscure in how they could help describe her character, I can make some of them work but it doesn't seem as concrete as you thoughts on Baelish. Anyways I really like this theory/video and look forward to your other ones.
OMG the "realistic" analysis of someone on horseback following a falling star towards a mini-nuclear explosion is giving me "how do two men on horseback destroy a huge stone tower" flashbacks (to the Tower of Joy). As always, Order of the Green Hand, you are both so right, so right and our romantic acceptance of silliness should always be questioned!!
Great job again. With so much info given on in the ADwD prologue with Varamyr and Haggen, the AFFC prologue is often overlooked. There is so much intrigue with the connections between the Maesters, the Faceless Men, and the the quote "An age for Gods and Heroes" It's almost like George put all the vital AFFC info in the prologue and not so much in the actual content. It's kind of a snoozer for me, but just like the Primus album states, "They can't all be zingers." Still, it's a great book full of subtleties that you catch only when you re-read the book. Thanks again for another info-packed and original video.
wow your logic is very stretched on how meteorites work... Hundreds land on earth every day,... the size, speed and angle of impact dictate the size of the impact... very possible for one to land beside you and do no damage... there is a well documented case of a woman being hit by one... No boiling rivers, no insane fires etc and there are also cases of people seeing them fall and following the trail out to the landing point
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand It doesn't have to have a trail that lingers to be followed. If you see a big explosion in the distance you remember what general direction the bright light was in. Long after the light is gone.
In arabic there are two words for meteors.. One for harmless smaller ones and one for impactful ones.. It translates into shooting stars on google translate for the harmless.. That includes rocks with trails that don't explode.. If there is an explosion.. Then it's a meteor.. Shehab-شهاب-falling star Naeyzak-نيزك-meteor
Wait... doesn't Brienne tell a story about a Knight with a sword called the Just Maid or something... not to be used on other people but only monsters or something? Wouldn't that be in league with Dawn?
The "star" that dawn was forged in could have also been code for Nisa Nisa. The thought of her falling from the sky makes more sense to me, especially if the whole "her cry cracked the moon and then dragons" thing holds true.
N+A=J for lyyyfe Side Note, Jonathan, rather than Jon comes from Hebrew. I'm sure you guys knew that, but for the other viewers, Jonathan comes from 'Yehonatan' which means, yes, 'God has given,' or 'giver of god' or 'God's generosity.' Nathaniel comes from 'Neteniel', with the suffix 'iel' which means 'of god,' and 'Neten,' meaning 'gift.' Nathan comes from 'Natan' which means 'giver.'
If the "sword of the morning" is an office and Dawn being a magical sword, I can't help but wonder if the fight in the tower of joy was a magical incident. Ser Arthur Dayne had "a sad smile on his lips", maybe the signs showed (birth of the baby) and he knew he had to do something. Perhaps "and now it begins" is the beginning of what he was performing. I never seemed to understand what that meant! the beginning of what. It's epic as hell though. Also, Ned never seemed to remember any of it.
I think you're missing a more obvious reference to how House Dayne got its name: Dane Whitman. GRRM has said he was a fan of Marvel comics, particularly of the Silver Age era. Dane Whitman (aka The Black Knight) has an ancestral sword which was forged from a fallen meteorite that has been passed down in his family as an office for centuries, with those who take up the office either being determined as "worthy" or "unworthy" by whether or not they can pull the sword from the meteorite it was forged from and whether the ghost of the first Black Knight judges them worthy of the honor--those who aren't worthy often going off and acting as villains claiming to be the Black Knight--but lacking the special sword. AKA, I don't see House Dayne as a Sirius the dog-star reference, I see it as a Marvel comics reference.
A thought that poped up once you started talking about the star and that it's actually a person/god. The movie (which I guess has it's charm) Stardust came to mind, I know this is pretty far-fetched and less likely but it's fun to speculate: What if the falling star is actually Nissa Nissa and Azor Ahai the first Dayne? Dawn was forged from the heart of a falling star and Lightbringer from when Azor Ahai plunged into Nissa Nissas chest. As I said, less-likely but still fun to speculate. Keep up the good job guys, been a fan for quite a while now!
that is actually really interesting...that doesn't sound far fetched at all...Nissa means "to test" in Hebrew, so Nissa Nissa could be to test twice, which he did and failed twice...without more time to think about it that is all I can come up with but if I put Lady Green Hand on it she'll come back to me with 10 pages of notes in an hour...by the way, since you are an actual expert in audio and you were nice enough to offer a little advise previously...are my audio levels good now going from voice to music...I keep tinkering with it trying to make it better
Sounds interesting, see if you could come up with something! About the audio: I think it's fine, the levels are decent in pair I would say. You could always get more gear and stuff to improve, but I don't really see the necessary of it. I'm not sure how you record the voices, but a cheap condenser microphone could upgrade the "depth" of the voice a lot. I would recommend "Rode NT1-A" or something similar. Keep up the good work guys, always enjoying your videos to a fresh cup of coffee. One of the highlights of the day :)
Thank you so much...we'll look into getting a better mic...I'm pretty sure ours is a condenser mic, but not a very good one...it was the last mic left at Best Buy when I went there to get one and it had decent online reviews so I grabbed it
Why does it indicate the weapon would not be equivalent, versus his mastery with Dawn, having been raised with it, is that much of an advantage? @ 17:28 I certainly believe that Martin had the similarities in mind that you have found with Sirius, but this theory does seem pretty different than the others. Mostly because of the whole... aliens thing. Kind of like the old Star Trek episode Who Mourns for Adonais. Isn't it more likely that the current telling is an exaggerated story from when the founder came upon the star stuff? It would be pretty disappointing if this beautiful fleshed out world turns into aliens ex machina.
I actually like the humor in his videos. He puts things into perspective as well. I'll admit that he lacks the depth of the order but, he's entertaining none the less.
I can't remember where it's from, but I heard of a real-world legend of how there was a great serpent at the beginning of time being bound and imprisoned in an underwater cave and was to be released at the time of the end. And, really, there are legends from all over the world about a god slaying a great serpent at the beginning of time. Some of this stuff also reminds me of the Titans imprisoned in Tartarus for a time.
we tend towards Dawn being Lightbringer and the forging legend is actually the "recipe" for making Valyrian Steel, and Lady Forlorn was the first sword ever made with that technique, predating Valyria by a lot, which is why it is a dragon steel blade as opposed to being a Valyrian Steel blade...it seems that since reforging Dawn is impossible because they don't have the materials necessary to do so, making sure the knowledge of making Valyrian Steel is more important because they can kill Others
But your theory of Brandon of the bloody blade and Rose/ Florian Jonquil/ Azor Ahai Nisa Nisa was soooo neat and cunningly fitting! ... I guess they aren't mutually exclusive ... hope you can expand on all of this in the future with more source material, love your approach, keep it up!
Another amazing video! I'm never disappointed with material from you two! I'm "counting coppers" shall we say like many people in this economy, but I'm still heading over to Patreon to up my contribution. You two always awaken my mind to things that should have been obvious to me and that's a refreshing feeling! Keep up the good work!
I love this!!! Who can still deny that it is Jon? Who can still deny the Daynes are a minor house??? This is fantastic!!! I am looking forward to Jon Dayne holding Dawn!!!
Another great video! Thank you. I've always been fascinated by House Dayne. I'm still holding out hope that Jon Snow is really the child of Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne.
I've been finding alot of symbolism for comet impacts and cataclysms in the books and show, I think this serves as part of that too. If the great other is death, and is trying to turn Bran into his vessel, then Bran is literally death falling towards earth. I love the Starfall stuff, some very interesting symbolism there that lines up with Freemason teachings by Randall Carlson. I'm sure GRRM has had some of that education as well.
Hello, this is Chester Misrule, here to bring some clarity to the world of "The Order of the Green Hand"(the Lady and the Lord) So,.....let´s do this! You guys, you got me....latest with this video! Been watching your channel the last couple a days(in the right Order, pun intended!) and.......... it´s THEEEEE best one on GoT , ......at least for me. :-) And to be honset, I´ve even just created a youtube-account, only so I can tell you that, both of ya. Technology is amazing! Now, I´m not totally sure, what both of your backgrounds are(accept that Lady Green Hand is a pyschologist and the Sire is running a business), but are both of you sure, you didn´t major like in history, heraldry, archaeology and world wide myths, also?! Hm, but perhaps you two maybe just like reading books, like, äh, a lot of them, .......which I heavily assume. Man, man, you two "Great White Danes" (no racism implied) ;-) To watch these videos is so compelling for me, it sort of matches the show and the books themselfs. Having lots of fun, big fan. I can imagine GRRM sitting on these podiums, being questions asked and thinking to himself "You know nothing, ....all of you" Now I just got the idea, John Snow sounds a lot like John Doe, as I think of it, nobody knows his identity.....hm.;-) Yeah, George R.R.Martin, this contented little Hobbit with the mind of Smaug, smiling deeply into himself(directly translated from German, couse that´s where I´m from ), fooling half the world at the moment....very nice. I do so hope that most of your theories are true, if not all of them, because it would be so much FUN! Otherwise the complete history of ASOIAF should be rewritten,......well........because it´s so much more fun. You two probably already heard a lot about that your channel differs a great deal to most of the other ones around, in form of stringent and profound argumentation, always backed with source material, but also your lateral thinking blows me away again and again. Respect! You two are doing an amazing, even kind of mesmerising job, keep up the good work.....and thanx a lot. Yours Chester P.S.: @Lord As already mentioned, you do sound a lot like Howard Hamlin from "Better call Saul", which is very pleasing by the way. ;-) P.P.S: The actors name would be Patrick Fabian, if you ever wanted to know, I just looked it up for you, in case you don´t have google....or a computer....or time.... P.P.P.S: The Lady also sounds vey nice....but I can´t tie any actress to you, I´m afraid. Sorry..... P.P.P.P.S: Does your house meanwhile look like the garage in "A Beautiful Mind" ?!
Chester, Thank you so much for your message. It is honestly one of the nicest things anyone has ever written to us, and really made our day. To answer your questions, no neither of us studied history or anything like that. Dave studied business and politics, and I studied Communications and then Educational Psychology, so I work with kids as a school psychologist. I'd say both of us have an insatiable curiosity and are very stubborn, which are the two driving forces behind figuring all this stuff out. I truly believe George RR Martin is sitting back and smiling to himself, and that he painstakingly looks into every single thing to the extent we explained in this video. Our strengths/weaknesses also very much compliment each other. I am the researcher, by trade but also just have a knack for it, and usually put together the big picture rough draft. Ser. is more of the logical, history buff, who really should've been a lawyer, because he'll question all of my points, so much so that I get frustrated, but in the end its all for the better because our argument becomes that much stronger. I'm more of the "let's do it now, get it done," he's more laid back and wants to take his time. This can be a source of contention, but it also ends up creating a good balance, and a better product. But all in all, we are just a couple who read the books, and found the world George created to be so fascinating, that we found ourselves reading them again....and again. Every time a little more convinced that the common theories and accepted narratives were flawed. This is where my drive kicked into gear, and I stayed on him for a while until we made the first video, and now the process has almost become a science. But I cannot thank you enough for creating an account just to tell us this, and for watching and appreciating our videos. There is so much work that goes into them, that when we get comments such as this, it makes it all worth it. PS: I totally agree that he sounds like Howard Hamlin! See I told you he should've been a lawyer. PPS: It's ok, :) My voice isn't nearly as cool as Dave's, but a lot of the ladies at work call me Reese, like Reese Witherspoon, mainly because of the blonde hair and our spitfire personalities. So weird too, her and I share a birthday. But Thank you Chester again, and you are always welcome at the wolf's den. Look out for our first live stream Sunday at 5pm (US, Eastern Standard Time). I don't know what time that would be in Germany, but if there is any question you want us to answer, and you can't make it, send it to us beforehand, and we will be sure to answer it. If you are able to be there, then we will see you then. :D :D :D
thank you so much...House Dayne is obviously something we have been fascinated with ever since we first noticed Ashara had purple eyes and had a history with Ned in the knight of the laughing tree story and was straight up told about Ned and Ashara by a kid named Ned Dayne in an Arya chapter right after...then when we discovered Dawn's existence, we pretty much became entirely convinced House Dayne is one of the keys to understanding where the story is going
The Order of the Green Hand absolutely. the mystery of Allyria too... loved your video theory on her. I look forward to more of your videos! you really do show fantastic research x
Again, my brain got empowered! Thank you guys for keeping up with the quality. ❤️💓❤️ Sorry i haven't been commenting. I'm working intensely lately. I arrive home, do whatever is essential and then I just blackout. In this case, I do love your perspective in all aspects. I just think that the first Dayne, might have followed the path of the star... from far away. And, as you say, it would have taken him super long time to arrive there. Being so, he would arrive already after the chaos caused by the falling star was more calm. He might have arrived when it was already safe to be there. Then he would look around the wreckage and find a strange material that would have come with the asteroid or formed by the combustion caused by its entrance in the atmosphere or even burnt down in the earth. Anyway, it would be a very rare thing, never seen before, with characteristics like no other material in planetos. Being so, there's no need for Gods meddling in the story. Just a unique material, formed by that "falling star", valued so much that can only be carried by those that prove to be worth of it. Well, just a thought. I don't like the idea that GrrMartin would give so much importance to godly interventions. But he could, after all there is magic in this world. (Sorry, I'm not rereading this text. Excuse my errors. I'm just to tired and I'm about to collapse against the screen)
+Mrs. Morbid haha. I didn't ever think our videos would be enjoyable to toddlers. That's just about the cutest thing ever. Also glad I can help get her to bed. That's often no easy task
I adore listened to you both! your voices are very soothing, clear and concise! I always listen to your videos before going to bed because they chill be out! I wish I could get a narration of GOT's by you guys! Please keep up the great work!
in the very first chapter, The Other's sword is similarly described ("milkglass"). Any theory on that? Any sustenance in an "others=ancient aliens" theory? A lot of what you say reminds me of that show, as far as tying all of these ancient history tidbits together. Could be why humans went underground in the tunnel systems. PJ has a bit about a 'nuclear ice age' type devastation in Westeros.
Thinking of Dawn and comparing it to Mjolnir. Considering both may have been made from parts of a star, and the similarities between the names Arthur and Thor... makes you think. :-) Love you guys!
love your videos. I think your Tywin Lannister series we're my favorites. I think they went a little cheap on the sword Dawn. I didn't appear as glamorous on the show as readers would imagine.
random thought but do you 2 have any characters that you would like to have point of view chapters in winds of winter or dreams of spring? I hope Jorah Mormont has one before George I'll him off.
First let me say.... you guys are great! I really dig how you not only explain theories...you've made me go back and read the novels ALLLLL over again. Thanks for that. Please...keep up the fantastic job. I do have a question,though. What are you're thoughts on "The North Remebers" by Silverblood? I like it,but....
No. It's a book. It picks up from Lord Commander Snow being stabbed and completes a lot of the storylines. Outs a pretty good book. It just isn't written by GRRM. Which means the actual story can result different by the time he's done writing. Give The North Remembers a look.
Your videos are incredibly well researched! I just found you off of a Preston Jacobs recommendation and haven't watched too many of your videos so I don't know if you've already made a video on this, but do you think melisandre and the other red priests actually see messages from the R'hollor, or are they just faking it?
That is what we think...Edric is too young to wield a 5-6 foot long greatsword...he could probably swing it, but not efficiently...that leaves only Jon
Jon is descendant from House Dayne on his Targaryen side. Dyanna Dayne married King Maekar and they would have been Jon's 3xs Great Grandparents (in the books at least, I still don't understand why they left Jaehaerys II out of the show). So I believe with his connection to House Dayne, Jon may be able to be Sword of the Morning.
we're actually nearly positive that Jon is Ned and Ashara's son and it is Aegon that is Rhaegar and Lyanna's...that seems to explain the existence of the correct number of important children born at the end of Robert's Rebellion, as Jon, Dany and Aegon all appear to be very important going forward, and the books and supporting material practically scream at you that Ned and Ashara met and fell in love at Harrenhal and continued a relationship afterwards...there is absolutely no reason to waste time and page space on that in every book as well as several character profile pages in the app if that wasn't important
The Order of the Green Hand Just needed to hear the voice of reason again state what I have believed and tried to explain to the RLJ population. Thanks so much! QOT.🌹 🌹
Love this theory. Jon is the Sword in the Darkness who will be reborn as the Sword of the Morning. The Azor Ahai myth is another clue the Daynes are of godly decent. The legend claims Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer by sacrificing Nissa Nissa, but what if Lightbringer is not a real sword? Instead, Azor Ahai thrust his "sword" (penis) in Nissa Nissa and she later died giving birth to the first Sword of the Morning who followed the falling star to what is now Starfall. The first Sword of the Morning or the Last Hero had a dog and picked lilac as his house's colors in honor of his mother, the Amethyst Empress. And since Sirius is a binary star, which was believed to be the soul of Isis (who had an invisible twin named Nephthys), I can't help but think it's meant to forshadow Jon is a twin.
You briefly cover a thought that Jon has about four constellations, the ice dragon, the shadow cat, the moon maid, and the sword of the morning. According to your theories John is related to the sword of the morning which is Arthur Dayne, Arthur Dayne is Mance Raider, and he was attacked by shadow cat and tells John the story. And the phrasing is "He was old friends" with these 4 things. Do you think this passage foreshadows Jon or Aurther's storyline? Someone will encounter an ice dragon perhaps? I have no clue who or what the moon maid is though.
When telling me all this about the Daynes and them being descended from Gods and the Starks Line coming from Florian the fool who's also a bastard of Garth Green hand and Azor Ahai makes me think of Jon and his parents being Eddard and Ashara. And how he will end the Long Night and is Azor Ahai reborn. Especially when hearing the lilac meaning of house Dayne's color is rebirth and how Jon will be brought back to life in the books.... I wrote this half way in the video and just finished watching it I was on the right path with this one!
So did you ever make a connection about that one time Hodor was afraid to enter the crypts and the release of the winged snake breathing a river of fire? Did Hodor see this beast? or sense him somehow? Does the timing work out right?
5:42 falling stars are actually very cold on impact the air friction at a higher altitude burns them but by the time they get closer to earth the resistance becomes an air cushion
!!!!!!Forged from the Heart of a Fallen Star- what if Nissa Nissa is a descended God ( Fallen Star ), which would allign with Azor Ahai forging his sword
and the gods we are speaking of in ASOIAF are also not omnipotent, just maybe powerful beings that descended... didnt mean that as an actual god, more of an 'otherworldly' kind
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Someone may have already said this, but what if "Dayne" is an old word for "Dawn," making House Dayne, "House of the Dawn" or "House of the Rising Sun." 😱
You Animal!
Founded by Woody Gutherie
Day-ne-w
@@AbdulBido who knew ?
It's definitely not a coincidence
Reminds me of Thor’s hammer, Mjöllnir: forged in the heart of a dying star, and wielded only by those who are worthy of it.
THIS make me wonder who put more thought in to the books. George RR Martin or the people that make up the theory's.
him...every time we research for a video, we find things that it almost seems impossible that he didn't at one point read...and he did it seemingly with every aspect of the story...the more research we do, the more we understand why his books take so long
But cant it just be one big coincidence? I mean It doesn't take long to come up with names like jon, starfall, winterfell and people don't really know the name Sirius these day unless you watch harry potter. Or he just likes to be cryptic just to screw with us and possible to see what kind of theory people will make from his books.
spiritwatcher you sound like someone who has never written anything, nor grasped the concept of the immense amount of time, research, language study, and long term planning that goes into writing fantasy books with complex histories and characters as in ASOIAF
Has to be GRRM. He takes way too long to write his books because he’s so meticulous
@@witdajuice6763 I agree. And it takes geniuses like these two, The Order of the Green Hand to break it down the way they do. I mean, the angles which they delve into to bring clarity to us is just amazing. Kudos TOotGH.
The Old Powers are Waking is the best bed time story playlist ever!
Thank you.
Pandemic reader over here! I am getting through your videos fast! I'm curious if you get into the symbolism of the gemology George includes? Crystals have quite a bit of lore around them that may provide hints. Black stones (Jet, Onyx) protect against demonic possession and other evils, Lapis can represent apt businesspeople etc. Forgive me if I just haven't gotten there yet. Or missed it. I absolutely LOVE your work and I am convinced you two are on to GRRM. Great work!
Love that info about the stones, particularly the black stones warding against evil, as the black stone in this universe is so important
Dawn = Jedi Lightsabre crystal
Valeryan Steel = Sith crystal
The Valeryans wanted to artificially create swords like Dawn to be prepared to fight the others again.
"The dragons know..." but maybe the dragon riders forgot...
This guy gets it ☝️ the swords are slept on by 99% of the fanbase
If he really considered all this... it's no wonder his books take so long to write. He'd actually be a quick writer given all the thoughts that'd go into this.
He saw a meteor, followed it's trajectory, and found it's landing site. Or, the more likely explanation, he literally fell from space. xD And people say Preston has crazy theories. But, as a huge fan of the books I enjoy all theories if they are well thought out.
in my research on meteors, I found that small meteors don't leave a trail that can be followed because it disappears in minutes, and doesn't impact with enough force to be able to find it afterwards unless you were standing right there...a large meteor has a trail that lasts for a few hours, but in order for it to have a trail that lasts long enough to follow on foot or horseback, it would have impacted with the force of a small nuclear bomb...we're not saying he fell from space...we're saying he was a god that descended from the stars
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand you contradict yourself. You claim that it makes an explosion with a size similar to that of a nuclear weapon. Is it possible that even if you are far away, if you are an epic hero, that you might see it at a far distance. Wonder "What the **** was that?!" and ride to investigate? If you then, in the general direction of the huge explosion you saw, find an area that is completely burnt is it possible that you travel to the center of this area to find out what has been going down?
@@petterbystrom9946 I never said the explosion is the size of a nuclear weapon...I said it hits with the force of a small nuclear weapon...and the legend literally says the guy followed the path of a falling star...that seems to imply that he followed the tail, which would usually be gone within minutes, which is why we think the guy would have had to have been pretty close to where it landed in order for that to happen, and therefore in an area where he would, at the very least get hit hard by the shockwave caused by the impact
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand The path in no way implies a trail I'm afraid. I really like most of your theories but this one as well as little finger being in cahoots with the three eyed Raven are just too crazy. GRRM seems to prefer magic like Gandalfs Magic. You can't really tell what it does. It's just... Magic.
@@petterbystrom9946 first of all, thank you...that's very much appreciated...the LF being in cahoots with the 3EC stems from the idea that he can, and does penetrate people's dreams...how he does it (glass candle or simply having the ability) is up for debate, but we're very confident he has that ability...the Ned chapter in the Black Cells has us convinced beyond reasonable doubt...this theory kind of ties into a Thor's Hammer like idea, or Excalibur from Arthurian legend...Dawn is treated like it's a God's weapon...you have to be worthy of it to wield it, and there aren't many examples of Sword's of the Morning in the histories, which seems to suggest that it often sits idle for hundreds of years waiting for a worthy candidate to present himself...there is no other weapon in the series that is treated this way...George has created fascinating ancient histories, all of which seem to include mythological demi-god-like characters...if this were historical fiction, they'd obviously be immediately dismissed as nothing more than legends, but this is a fantasy story...why have these ancient characters in a fantasy story if they aren't real? that's the beauty of fantasy...magical beings and characters are real in fantasy...we tend to think of the story as one in which history tends to repeat itself, and the descendants of these ancient demi-gods will have to rise to the occasion and fill the shoes of their ancient demi-god ancestors in order for mankind to survive the War to Come and win the new Battle for the Dawn...that would very likely make Dawn and the office of Sword of the Morning a central storyline in the pages to come, whereas the Iron Throne and mankind's struggle for power, money and glory filled the large portion of the storyline previously...getting back to Dawn being a God's weapon...that would require the first Sword of the Morning (the guy who either forged it or was the first to wield it) a god, which is sort of the point of this video...that and the Gods being closely associated with the stars
I love the quote at the end. Especially the part emphasising Benjen. It backs up the Stark family's importance in the wars to come without lying about Jon's parentage, with nephew potentially meaning Ed or Lyanna. Just damn good writing.
Thank you...George's word selection is incredible
Man, I can only imagine Jon dual wielding both Long Claw and the Sword of the Morning, that would be epic.
Epic!
When the video is so good you re watch it 5 years later and see one of your own comments.
Same ❤
Now my GOT comment. This video, and all your descriptions of the "shooting stars", have reaffirmed my thought that Ashara Dayne is not dead. Septa Lemore= Pale Meteors. A pale meteor is on the Dayne sigil. Ashara is Septa Lemore.
Lady Green Hand has been trying to make an anagram out of Septa Lemore since we read the books the first time...she looks like if she could give you a cross country kiss right now, she would
Aww I love it! Mary Ellen is awesome❤. Another one is Septa Lemore= Team Elopers. Ned and Ashara eloped. It also could be argued that the anagram is applicable to Lyanna, because she and Rhaegar likely eloped as well. Which in a way does fit with the assertion of Lyanna giving birth Aegon. If Lyanna did give birth to Aegon, it would make sense that she'd be traveling with him.
The Order of the Green Hand hey guys there's one ugly roach in the rushes. Tyrion describes Septa Lemore as "past forty". But Ned was 35. So how can she be Ashara? Was Tyrion wrong?
Ashley of Naath Or Ashara is Quaithe, as Quaithe is clearly linked to stars. Moren than Lemore.
Lilli03071 Ashara I never bought as Quaithe, simply because Dany wouldn't recognize Ashara, so Ashara wouldn't need to hide her face. Also, Quaithe is a shadow binder. I don't recall Ashara ever being mentioned to dabble in dark arts.
I think Quaithe could be Shiera Seastar. The sea star is another name for the North Star, which people use to guide them when they are lost, particularly when lost at sea. Quaithe tells Dany directly that she wants "to guide her". Whenever Dany is feeling lost as a leader or literally is lost, Quaithe comes to her. At the end of ADWD, Dany is lost in the Dothraki sea. She has a dream in which "she was flying once again, spinning, laughing, dancing, as the stars wheeled around her and whispered secrets in her ear." Dany calls to her, and next thing you know "then she saw. Her mask is made of Starlight. Remember who you are Daenerys. The dragons know. Do you?".
So, I say all this to say, when Dany was 'lost at sea', the sea star appeared to guide her. Also, back at the beginning when the red comet is scene, the Dothraki called it "shierak qiya". The name Shiera is actually in that word. Dany thinks she is meant to follow that star, and she does. So it could be said "shierak" is literally guiding her. Which Quaithe tells Dany is her purpose. I connect the dots to fit with Shiera, but truly none of us knows for sure. That's the beauty of Martin's writing; two people can read the same thing and get two different meanings.
One of my most favorite topics in the books..House Dayne and Dawn🌠
So much mystery there and so many theory paths to go down.
I loved this before I even watched it. I am so glad I found your channel. Such great stuff! 💜
Beauty
You have no idea how I LIVE for these concise, clear intelligent breakdowns of outside the box theories I live I live!🤣
Thanks so much! Glad we could help sustain you. haha :)
Isarma Winter 💩
You are undoubtedly THE BEST 'ASOIAF' theorists in the game today. The colossal effort you put into your research is ridiculous (for lack of a better word) and has not gone unnoticed, you are truly appreciated. Your principled explanations are always backed by undeniable sense and logic. I sometimes find myself wanting to disagree and failing miserably to, you are always giving us concrete and pragmatic propositions to mull over. Thank you very much for bringing us clarity to a Song of Ice and FIre.
Thank you. We put a lot of time and effort into our videos and it’s always nice to hear its appreciated
So Dawn is described by Ned as "pale as milkglass, alive with light". There are two other mentions of the expression "alive with light" in AGOT: 1) to describe the seven-sided crystal used for the worship of the Seven, 2) Jon's description of the Wall: "it shone, alive with light, a colossal blue-white cliff that filled up half the sky." Maybe there's a link between the two? Valeryan steel is made with a combination of fire magic and blood magic, and is blackish. I believe the Wall and Dawn could be made out of a combination of ice and blood magic, with a ritual known by mankind or the cotf (or both) at some point in history.
Also, you probably know that ASOIAF was supposed to be a trilogy, at first. When ASOS came out, a description of the book at Amazon - which was promptly removed (can't find the reference right now, sorry) went something like: "with a dramatic ending at Starfall"...
Swords of the Others are milkglass and alive with light too.
Amazing video! Quick question/clarification: do you suggest that a Great Dayne fell to Westeros with Dawn, or that Dawn is more Arthurian in nature? (excuse the pun)
While you make a suggestive case for the Great Dayne being a literal god, I couldn't help but get the feeling that Dawn itself was the fallen star and a Dayne happened upon it at Starfall and claimed it. This could still fit the Sword of the Morning = Azor Ahai narrative.
I think that Rhegar would have made a connection between Dawn and Lightbringer while reading the prophecy. Both Ser Arthur and Lady Ashara were besties with Rhegar and Elia afterall...
This is a great one! They're all good, but I love this topic.
researching this was so fascinating that we ended up with like 10x more information than we could even get into this video
The Order of the Green Hand Your effort shows! Hope you can use that extra info for future videos. 😃
By far you guys def have the most logical/entertaining theories. The channel rocks. Keep on keepin on!!!
Thank you so much...we will certainly try
Incredible video. Your efforts are appreciated. I would love to know what you think about the character Edric Dayne, who they call Ned. He is so mysterious. If Eddard Stark was the reasoning behind Ashara's suicide - which I don't believe to be the case - why name the kid, Edric? What did Ned Stark do to earn such an honour?
that is something we tried to shout from a mountain top when we first got started...I want to say it is included in part 2 of our N+A=J series but I could be wrong...we think Ashara is alive and is Septa Lemore and Aegon is R&L's son, and she went with him into exile because having purple eyes would make it possible for her to pose as his mother, and having just given birth to Jon, she was also able to care for the baby...its a lot more complicated than my one sentence explanation and makes more sense in the context of the rest of the series if you are interested
I SEE HOUSE DAYNE, I CLICK
couldn't agree more
Noctem same, for I am a simple man.
House Dayne for life. Best House Ever! You can suck our Glorious Greatsword made of starmetal that is far superiour to your dragon-steel.
There should be a like button for those who watch this over and over.....and like it more every time
What if the first Dayne was just a dragonlord from Valyria, and was able to follow the "falling star" because he was riding his dragon. That would also account for being able to approach the fiery explosion, and then he would have used the same "magical" smithing techniques as with valyrian steel, but using the "meteoric steel" instead, which would account for Dawn having the same properties as valyrian steel, yet look different due to having an otherworldly "base material".
After all, members of House Dayne are portrayed as having valyrian features (purple eyes, silver hair), and these features, i think, are what define their banner... lilac background = lilac/violet eyes, white star and sword = platinum/silver hair.
Just a thought, or two... Anyway, congrats to the creators of this channel. You're doing an awesome job, thank you :D
Alin Lacatus could work if Dayne family were really of Valyrian descent but they are descendants of First Men along with other great houses of Westeros
As always another great video! I've been in a rehab for ten months where I got my life back in order so I'm late on alot of these. But I'm catching up and trying to keep up with the livestreams. Believe it or not when I'm having a bad day I just go on RUclips and go straight to ser and m'lady. Love you guys!! Keep em coming!!
good for you...keep on keeping on...I decided to stop drinking about 5 years ago and it was the best decision I ever made
Another awesome video. You guys make incredible material it always leaves me wanting more. I really appreciate the time and detail that you put into each video. I can't wait to see what's next. Thank you
Always makes my day to get a new vid notification from Order of the Greenhand!!!!! I seriously freakin love you guys, lol, my most favorite ASOIAF channel, with Preston Jacobs coming in close second, lol....And these Old Powers are Waking videos are probably my favorite series of your videos, and that's saying a lot since I have watched and re-watched every video you've made, each time with just as much excitement and intrigue lol... I've been commenting on all Preston's new videos, asking him to do a collab with you guys, so I figure I should comment here too lol, but I think it would be EPIC to hear you guys wax theories together, especially since I feel like the three of you are some of the most critically thinking and observant ASOIAF creators out there, even if you guys don't agree on everything, I just think it would be so cool to hear you guys converse about it all!!! As always, awesome video, awesome work
19:50
I gotta say, this narrative is much more appealing ... Jon Snow reborn as Jon Stark, and is bestowed the sword Dawn and the title of Sword of the Morning, through his mother Ashara Dayne, and fights the Others in The New War for the Dawn.
what if Dawn is a lightsaber
may the force be with you.
I don't think you could rule that out. Think it's Preston Jacobs that is convinced the WoI&F is a sci-fi universe. All these references to start beings and travel are adding weight to that theory.
SSTDE420 john is Not A HEBREW NAME THERE IS NO J IN THE HEBREW LANGUAGE
that would be cool
@@ayannaalexander390 John comes from Yuhannan so yes it's a Hebrew name.
Lightbringer = Dawn
What is dawn if not the bringing of light?
great video guys! I really loved it and the timing was good as well... I can't express how much happy that notification of a new video made me, you guys are awesome and I can't wait for the next one.
Thank you Kamel...this one was a video we have wanted to make for months and we finally found the right series to place it in
The Order of the Green Hand in that case please, if u have other ideas like that drop even if it's random but please give me more TOOTGH juice, I've just read in the comments that there's 10 times more info that in this video, is there's any chance that we'll see it?
That was very nice. I am impressed with the research you guys put in. These are always a fun view.
Thank you Steve...your comments are always appreciated
This is my absolute favorite video so far. If Jon isn’t a Dayne, I’ll be devastated. Him becoming the next Sword of the Morning is just an ultimate plot point.
Another great video folks! You do us all a great service!
Just one thing: when you say the Egyptian texts are the oldest on earth - Summerian texts pre-date Egyptians by around 1000 years, and are the oldest known human texts in existence.
"And in this year the Kingship came down from heaven..."
It was from their texts and laws that Egypt and Babylon drew their own codes of conduct and decency. Very interesting reading...
One of the articles we used said the Pyramid Texts were the oldest, but I have to admit that until a few months ago I hadn't thought about any of this stuff since high school history class so it is entirely possible that the article was wrong...it is disappointing though because we try to use reputable sources...I think I found that in a Forbes article or on a University's website
+The Order of the Green Hand I'm not trying to criticise, nor condescend! I hope you believe me! I love what you do and offer a new line of thinking to many theories, whether they are popular or not - it's all interesting.
I was just offering some info to help on what is already a well produced product. Just when I see info I feel (may be) incorrect I can't help but put my own two groats in lol.
Wasn't so much being "pernickety" as offering new direction of thought.
Keep up the good work and can't wait for the next vid! (",)
i ask you what "brings the light"
A: Dawn
Hey guys, I just want to say that thanks to you I bought the first book. I've been watching the show since about S3 and have been passionate about it since just about everyone that watches it. I've looked at some of the common theories (LR=J...) from time to time because it was fun. I've discovered your channel just some days ago and have been watching about 5 or 6 videos that I've really enjoyed. Naturally I'm missing a lot since I only watched the show and I don't understand everything you point out, or the families, etc, but I still see the connections that you make and I find them fascinating. So yesterday I went to the library and bought the first book in english (I'm french) so that I wouldn't miss any subtlety from the author's writing. I've only started reading yesterday for a few pages but I'm definitely gonna end up reading everything in a few weeks. Thanks a lot to both of you for your great work and making me want to start reading the books
I always thought that the falling star was a small metallic meteor that was seen, and heard, then the Dayne tracked it down and found a large enough piece to make a sword and built his city there. Dawn is said to be a great sword. Practical great swords weighed up to 6 or so pounds. That doesn't require a very big meteor. All maps that I have seen of the Torentine river region lack an impact crater. I have seen estimates of 100-200 km distance for seeing a shooting star, so he wouldn't even have to be close, and from that distance by the time he got to the impact site, it would have cooled. I don't want to poo-poo a god in a story with magic, ice demons, dragons, undead, skin changers, telepaths, and time reversing magic stone pirate guys, just that it didn't have to be more than a normal human to be that house Dayne founder. Also, why would a god use a sword?
Once again, I apologize for always seeming negative in my comments. This is my favorite channel for this stuff, always new ideas and hypotheses to play with.
I had to look up meteor impacts , check out Purdue University's Impact: Earth! for some cool meteor impact analysis.
The crater is dependent on the size, speed, and angle at which the object strikes. The material of the object and what it hits probably play a factor as well. I am FAR from an expert on this, but there are a lot of resources online that can explain and show impacts. I think there is probably a misconception in general about impacts because we all have seen Crater Lake, the surface of the Moon, and heard about an extinction level event meteor that ended the Cretaceous period, and seen movies like Armageddon. Most objects that enter Earth's atmosphere are much, much smaller. A meteor of "substance X space metal," that made Dawn would only have to leave about 6 pounds of metal to create such a sword, if it were the size and weight of historic great swords. For comparison, a typical bowling ball weighs 10-16 pounds. Such an object would probably be a big problem for whatever it landed on, and likely make a lot of noise, and be quite hot, but is unlikely to create a hellish landscape. And there is no evidence given that shows any type of impact crater in that area. That leads me to believe that the impactor was small.
Dave C I totally agree and before I saw your comment, i was basically about to write the same.
You were talking about greatsword but Dawn ain't even one. Arthur Dayne wields Dawn with a single hand, which is totally impossible for it's weight! some would say It's meteor an it culd be as light as Valyrian steel, but one of the true greatsword we see in Game Of Thrones is Ice, and even though it was made of Valyrian steel, Ned could not use it in battle for it was too heavy and impracticle. That's precisly why it was reforged into two swords.
EDIT: FYI These swords are called Longswords
I have a degree in astrobiology, and I've taken astronomy and planetary geology as a part of that. Meteorites tend to be cool when they land, especially if they are small, since the hot parts peel away (like the heat shield of space shuttles on reentry). Gigantic meteorites cause fires not through their impact but their entry into the atmosphere. The friction heats the air around the meteorite, and flammable things catch fire because of the heated air.
This, so much this. Why isn't this top comment yet? I was about to leave a comment incredibly similar, only probably not as good.
Also I would like to theorize further (so put your tinfoil hat on) that the founder of the house, based on the location of where Starfall is, could have been travelling between Old Town and Essos (maybe even Yi Ti) by ship when he saw the meteorite fall. It would allow him to more easily pinpoint it's location from the sea and navigate to it quickly, even if he was quite a distance away. Much easier than by land, through the mountains.
It sounds a bit more plausible than a god, I think. Still this is not the first theory I've heard where the Daynes are thought to be descendants from a god and their links with Yi Ti, specifically the Amethyst Empress. It could just be legends or there could be some truth to it, even if it just a little. There is plenty of magic in that world after all.
Also imagine if they had some sort of compass on their ship and the meteorite either magnetically or magically attracts it. Although Dawn would be kind of useless if it was magnetic. You would never get the swords off each other if they clashed or off armour...
Actually, a practical greatsword would weight about three pounds. Any more and the weapon become very hard to handle effectively. Two handed longsswords, like an Oakeshott Type XVII or XVIII wouldn't weight much more than three pounds, as surviving specimens in museums attest, and many weight just under that. 677777777777tfrg.
66qw22qIndeed, the feders that we use in HEMA training are of similar weights and dimensions. Now, a bearing sword, which is a ceremonial sword not intended for battle, would weigh much more. Also, Ned Stark's Ice was clearly a very heavy, large weapon but again, wasn't really meant as a combat weapon. It's made clear in the books that Ned and his Stark forebears would take other weapons into battle, handier swords than the large and massively slow Ice.
great job guys. loving the new series. really cool new idea
Thanks Shawn!
Shortest 20 minutes of my life. we need a live q and a!
Thank you so much...we tried to find time to do one a few months ago but we're both slammed at our real jobs and have barely had enough time to put our weekly video out...we're thinking we might have time for one or two this summer
NP i hope it all goes well. Don't work yourselves to the bone :P i'm a huge fan and have heard every word you two have spoken on this platform. Your diligence is much appreciated
just realized i replied from my other account >.
ooor the original dayne was a regular person who wasnt traveling alone (that was never stated) who happened to be very near the impact location of a meteor too small to cause a crater, but large enough to survive the fall and retain enough heat to start a bush fire. perhaps he was just a few miles from where it landed, it caused a fire on the island so he knew it was over there, and his group took their time crossing the river perhaps with rafts.
they found the rock in the middle of the ashes of burned plants, and made a sword from it later
small meteors (like what you described) leave a trail that disappears in minutes and don't cause enough damage to find the location where it hit unless you saw it hit...so there would be no way he could follow the path of a fallen star unless it was big enough to leave a trail that could be followed
It didn't have to leave anything lasting, just the streak as it entered through the atmosphere would be enough to "follow a trail", and it could start fires without creating a crater. Not surprising a group of people were at the mouth of a river.
OR... the first Dayne was a greenseer and could astroproject or whatever. Just as Bran is 1000 miles above the ground... couldn't Bran have "followed the path of a falling star" from there? and then gone to investigate?
Another great video. Truly amazing breakdowns and comparisons. You guys really do your homework and it's appreciated! The best Game of Thrones channel on the tube.
Thank you so much....we try to get as much information as possible together before making a theory, and incorporate as much as we can get into each video without sounding like we're reading you guys a textbook
When I was listening to your video I kept thinking of Stardust, in which a star falls from the heavens in the form of female personification of that star called, Yvaine. Which then made me think of how lightbringer was said to be tempered, in the blood of his wife Nissa Nissa. I'm now wondering if Nissa was actually the star/goddess that fell to the earth (instead of the god you proposed), and fell in love with the first lord of Starfall. This would explain why Azor Ahai had to kill his wife because she was the true essence of the star, and it is said her soul combined with the steel of the sword. She also seems to be related to the heavens in some way, with the story saying that the moon cracked after this act. Dayne's are described to have Valyrian features but GRRM says they are not of Valyrian decent, but if they are the children of a fallen star I'd say their features would make since (white is what I'd think of for a fallen star to have). I'm wondering if the star came down to end the long night by testing and finding a man worthy to be a hero. Once she found one, she led him back to where she fell, to forge the sword needed by her chosen hero. I believe the story says "he knew before hand", because she told him that she'd be needed to forge the sword. But since he loved her he tried the other two methods first in order to save her. Since I was hoping her name would help this theory I discovered these various meanings such as goal, beginning, sign, woman, end, friendly elf/fairy, and even test by some sources. But the meanings seem to be a bit obscure in how they could help describe her character, I can make some of them work but it doesn't seem as concrete as you thoughts on Baelish. Anyways I really like this theory/video and look forward to your other ones.
This series is so informative that I now know why that book and the film are called "The Color Purple."
OMG the "realistic" analysis of someone on horseback following a falling star towards a mini-nuclear explosion is giving me "how do two men on horseback destroy a huge stone tower" flashbacks (to the Tower of Joy). As always, Order of the Green Hand, you are both so right, so right and our romantic acceptance of silliness should always be questioned!!
Great job again. With so much info given on in the ADwD prologue with Varamyr and Haggen, the AFFC prologue is often overlooked. There is so much intrigue with the connections between the Maesters, the Faceless Men, and the the quote "An age for Gods and Heroes" It's almost like George put all the vital AFFC info in the prologue and not so much in the actual content. It's kind of a snoozer for me, but just like the Primus album states, "They can't all be zingers." Still, it's a great book full of subtleties that you catch only when you re-read the book. Thanks again for another info-packed and original video.
Thanks so much!
wow your logic is very stretched on how meteorites work... Hundreds land on earth every day,... the size, speed and angle of impact dictate the size of the impact... very possible for one to land beside you and do no damage... there is a well documented case of a woman being hit by one... No boiling rivers, no insane fires etc and there are also cases of people seeing them fall and following the trail out to the landing point
Actually, in order for a meteor to have a trail that lingers long enough to be followed, it would have to be about the size we said it was
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand It doesn't have to have a trail that lingers to be followed. If you see a big explosion in the distance you remember what general direction the bright light was in. Long after the light is gone.
Thanks for saying it!
In arabic there are two words for meteors.. One for harmless smaller ones and one for impactful ones.. It translates into shooting stars on google translate for the harmless.. That includes rocks with trails that don't explode.. If there is an explosion.. Then it's a meteor..
Shehab-شهاب-falling star
Naeyzak-نيزك-meteor
Wait... doesn't Brienne tell a story about a Knight with a sword called the Just Maid or something... not to be used on other people but only monsters or something? Wouldn't that be in league with Dawn?
The "star" that dawn was forged in could have also been code for Nisa Nisa. The thought of her falling from the sky makes more sense to me, especially if the whole "her cry cracked the moon and then dragons" thing holds true.
The Dogon of West Africa have the most intricate mythology around the Sirius system
N+A=J for lyyyfe
Side Note, Jonathan, rather than Jon comes from Hebrew. I'm sure you guys knew that, but for the other viewers, Jonathan comes from 'Yehonatan' which means, yes, 'God has given,' or 'giver of god' or 'God's generosity.' Nathaniel comes from 'Neteniel', with the suffix 'iel' which means 'of god,' and 'Neten,' meaning 'gift.' Nathan comes from 'Natan' which means 'giver.'
Hi ! and Thank you!!!
If the "sword of the morning" is an office and Dawn being a magical sword, I can't help but wonder if the fight in the tower of joy was a magical incident. Ser Arthur Dayne had "a sad smile on his lips", maybe the signs showed (birth of the baby) and he knew he had to do something. Perhaps "and now it begins" is the beginning of what he was performing. I never seemed to understand what that meant! the beginning of what. It's epic as hell though. Also, Ned never seemed to remember any of it.
Awesome video as always. I get absolutely giddy when I see a notification for a new video from you!
Thank you!
I think you're missing a more obvious reference to how House Dayne got its name: Dane Whitman.
GRRM has said he was a fan of Marvel comics, particularly of the Silver Age era. Dane Whitman (aka The Black Knight) has an ancestral sword which was forged from a fallen meteorite that has been passed down in his family as an office for centuries, with those who take up the office either being determined as "worthy" or "unworthy" by whether or not they can pull the sword from the meteorite it was forged from and whether the ghost of the first Black Knight judges them worthy of the honor--those who aren't worthy often going off and acting as villains claiming to be the Black Knight--but lacking the special sword.
AKA, I don't see House Dayne as a Sirius the dog-star reference, I see it as a Marvel comics reference.
And Kit Harington plays the character of Dane Whitman too, chef's kiss!!
A thought that poped up once you started talking about the star and that it's actually a person/god. The movie (which I guess has it's charm) Stardust came to mind, I know this is pretty far-fetched and less likely but it's fun to speculate:
What if the falling star is actually Nissa Nissa and Azor Ahai the first Dayne?
Dawn was forged from the heart of a falling star and Lightbringer from when Azor Ahai plunged into Nissa Nissas chest.
As I said, less-likely but still fun to speculate.
Keep up the good job guys, been a fan for quite a while now!
that is actually really interesting...that doesn't sound far fetched at all...Nissa means "to test" in Hebrew, so Nissa Nissa could be to test twice, which he did and failed twice...without more time to think about it that is all I can come up with but if I put Lady Green Hand on it she'll come back to me with 10 pages of notes in an hour...by the way, since you are an actual expert in audio and you were nice enough to offer a little advise previously...are my audio levels good now going from voice to music...I keep tinkering with it trying to make it better
Sounds interesting, see if you could come up with something!
About the audio: I think it's fine, the levels are decent in pair I would say.
You could always get more gear and stuff to improve, but I don't really see the necessary of it.
I'm not sure how you record the voices, but a cheap condenser microphone could upgrade the "depth" of the voice a lot.
I would recommend "Rode NT1-A" or something similar.
Keep up the good work guys, always enjoying your videos to a fresh cup of coffee. One of the highlights of the day :)
Thank you so much...we'll look into getting a better mic...I'm pretty sure ours is a condenser mic, but not a very good one...it was the last mic left at Best Buy when I went there to get one and it had decent online reviews so I grabbed it
So psyched! Best theory crafting anywhere! 👍👍
thank you so much...hope you enjoy
from The North ...aka .Scotland the Walker fighters :) thank you ,brilliant again.
Hmmm..."Sirius Black"
I wonder what else I missed in Harry Potter.
Wait, light bringer comes from the Azor Ahai legend, then what happens with the Westerosi legend of the last hero who had a broken sword?
Why does it indicate the weapon would not be equivalent, versus his mastery with Dawn, having been raised with it, is that much of an advantage? @ 17:28
I certainly believe that Martin had the similarities in mind that you have found with Sirius, but this theory does seem pretty different than the others. Mostly because of the whole... aliens thing. Kind of like the old Star Trek episode Who Mourns for Adonais. Isn't it more likely that the current telling is an exaggerated story from when the founder came upon the star stuff? It would be pretty disappointing if this beautiful fleshed out world turns into aliens ex machina.
TBH, I anticipate these videos more than I do Alt Shift X videos.
I shouldthink so!
Liam...you are the best
Burrito Supremacy...thank you...TBH, I can't blame you
Come on man, Alt Shift X is like ''A Song of Ice and Fire for Dummies''
I actually like the humor in his videos. He puts things into perspective as well. I'll admit that he lacks the depth of the order but, he's entertaining none the less.
I can't remember where it's from, but I heard of a real-world legend of how there was a great serpent at the beginning of time being bound and imprisoned in an underwater cave and was to be released at the time of the end. And, really, there are legends from all over the world about a god slaying a great serpent at the beginning of time. Some of this stuff also reminds me of the Titans imprisoned in Tartarus for a time.
I’ve heard the same story, the sun god slays the serpent or great dragon. Again I don’t know where I’ve heard it.
Great vid! I am confused about something however...Which is light bringer, Dawn or Lady Forlorn?
we tend towards Dawn being Lightbringer and the forging legend is actually the "recipe" for making Valyrian Steel, and Lady Forlorn was the first sword ever made with that technique, predating Valyria by a lot, which is why it is a dragon steel blade as opposed to being a Valyrian Steel blade...it seems that since reforging Dawn is impossible because they don't have the materials necessary to do so, making sure the knowledge of making Valyrian Steel is more important because they can kill Others
But your theory of Brandon of the bloody blade and Rose/ Florian Jonquil/ Azor Ahai Nisa Nisa was soooo neat and cunningly fitting! ... I guess they aren't mutually exclusive ... hope you can expand on all of this in the future with more source material, love your approach, keep it up!
thank you...we'll try
Another amazing video! I'm never disappointed with material from you two! I'm "counting coppers" shall we say like many people in this economy, but I'm still heading over to Patreon to up my contribution. You two always awaken my mind to things that should have been obvious to me and that's a refreshing feeling! Keep up the good work!
I love this!!! Who can still deny that it is Jon? Who can still deny the Daynes are a minor house??? This is fantastic!!! I am looking forward to Jon Dayne holding Dawn!!!
Another great video! Thank you. I've always been fascinated by House Dayne. I'm still holding out hope that Jon Snow is really the child of Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne.
thank you...obviously we're right there with you
'It must be you or NO ONE'
Thank you!!!!! I literally check RUclips 50 times a days waiting for your next video.
every monday you can expect a release :D
Or maybe the story of how House Dayne was founded is simply an exaggeration of the truth?
Hi
I have to admit you providing one of the best ASOIAF content and mystries
I hope you make a video every thing about
THE ISLE OF FACES
Thank you so much...there is a reference or two to the Isle of Faces in our Bran the Builder video
The Order of the Green Hand
If you don't what is the video's title ?
The Order of the Green Hand
I mean if U don't mind *
I've been finding alot of symbolism for comet impacts and cataclysms in the books and show, I think this serves as part of that too. If the great other is death, and is trying to turn Bran into his vessel, then Bran is literally death falling towards earth. I love the Starfall stuff, some very interesting symbolism there that lines up with Freemason teachings by Randall Carlson. I'm sure GRRM has had some of that education as well.
Hello, this is Chester Misrule, here to bring some clarity to the world of "The Order of the Green Hand"(the Lady and the Lord)
So,.....let´s do this!
You guys, you got me....latest with this video!
Been watching your channel the last couple a days(in the right Order, pun intended!) and.......... it´s THEEEEE best one on GoT , ......at least for me. :-)
And to be honset, I´ve even just created a youtube-account, only so I can tell you that, both of ya. Technology is amazing!
Now, I´m not totally sure, what both of your backgrounds are(accept that Lady Green Hand is a pyschologist and the Sire is running a business), but are both of you sure, you didn´t major like in history, heraldry, archaeology and world wide myths, also?!
Hm, but perhaps you two maybe just like reading books, like, äh, a lot of them, .......which I heavily assume.
Man, man, you two "Great White Danes" (no racism implied) ;-)
To watch these videos is so compelling for me, it sort of matches the show and the books themselfs. Having lots of fun, big fan. I can imagine GRRM sitting on these podiums, being questions asked and thinking to himself "You know nothing, ....all of you" Now I just got the idea, John Snow sounds a lot like John Doe, as I think of it, nobody knows his identity.....hm.;-)
Yeah, George R.R.Martin, this contented little Hobbit with the mind of Smaug, smiling deeply into himself(directly translated from German, couse that´s where I´m from ), fooling half the world at the moment....very nice.
I do so hope that most of your theories are true, if not all of them, because it would be so much FUN! Otherwise the complete history of ASOIAF should be rewritten,......well........because it´s so much more fun.
You two probably already heard a lot about that your channel differs a great deal to most of the other ones around, in form of stringent and profound argumentation, always backed with source material, but also your lateral thinking blows me away again and again. Respect!
You two are doing an amazing, even kind of mesmerising job, keep up the good work.....and thanx a lot.
Yours
Chester
P.S.: @Lord As already mentioned, you do sound a lot like Howard Hamlin from "Better call Saul", which is very pleasing by the way. ;-)
P.P.S: The actors name would be Patrick Fabian, if you ever wanted to know, I just looked it up for you, in case you don´t have google....or a computer....or time....
P.P.P.S: The Lady also sounds vey nice....but I can´t tie any actress to you, I´m afraid. Sorry.....
P.P.P.P.S: Does your house meanwhile look like the garage in "A Beautiful Mind" ?!
Chester, Thank you so much for your message. It is honestly one of the nicest things anyone has ever written to us, and really made our day. To answer your questions, no neither of us studied history or anything like that. Dave studied business and politics, and I studied Communications and then Educational Psychology, so I work with kids as a school psychologist. I'd say both of us have an insatiable curiosity and are very stubborn, which are the two driving forces behind figuring all this stuff out. I truly believe George RR Martin is sitting back and smiling to himself, and that he painstakingly looks into every single thing to the extent we explained in this video. Our strengths/weaknesses also very much compliment each other. I am the researcher, by trade but also just have a knack for it, and usually put together the big picture rough draft. Ser. is more of the logical, history buff, who really should've been a lawyer, because he'll question all of my points, so much so that I get frustrated, but in the end its all for the better because our argument becomes that much stronger. I'm more of the "let's do it now, get it done," he's more laid back and wants to take his time. This can be a source of contention, but it also ends up creating a good balance, and a better product. But all in all, we are just a couple who read the books, and found the world George created to be so fascinating, that we found ourselves reading them again....and again. Every time a little more convinced that the common theories and accepted narratives were flawed. This is where my drive kicked into gear, and I stayed on him for a while until we made the first video, and now the process has almost become a science. But I cannot thank you enough for creating an account just to tell us this, and for watching and appreciating our videos. There is so much work that goes into them, that when we get comments such as this, it makes it all worth it.
PS: I totally agree that he sounds like Howard Hamlin! See I told you he should've been a lawyer.
PPS: It's ok, :) My voice isn't nearly as cool as Dave's, but a lot of the ladies at work call me Reese, like Reese Witherspoon, mainly because of the blonde hair and our spitfire personalities. So weird too, her and I share a birthday.
But Thank you Chester again, and you are always welcome at the wolf's den. Look out for our first live stream Sunday at 5pm (US, Eastern Standard Time). I don't know what time that would be in Germany, but if there is any question you want us to answer, and you can't make it, send it to us beforehand, and we will be sure to answer it. If you are able to be there, then we will see you then. :D :D :D
house Dayne is my fave house 😊 fab video as usual. sending love from north England
thank you so much...House Dayne is obviously something we have been fascinated with ever since we first noticed Ashara had purple eyes and had a history with Ned in the knight of the laughing tree story and was straight up told about Ned and Ashara by a kid named Ned Dayne in an Arya chapter right after...then when we discovered Dawn's existence, we pretty much became entirely convinced House Dayne is one of the keys to understanding where the story is going
The Order of the Green Hand absolutely. the mystery of Allyria too... loved your video theory on her. I look forward to more of your videos! you really do show fantastic research x
Again, my brain got empowered! Thank you guys for keeping up with the quality. ❤️💓❤️
Sorry i haven't been commenting. I'm working intensely lately. I arrive home, do whatever is essential and then I just blackout.
In this case, I do love your perspective in all aspects. I just think that the first Dayne, might have followed the path of the star... from far away. And, as you say, it would have taken him super long time to arrive there. Being so, he would arrive already after the chaos caused by the falling star was more calm. He might have arrived when it was already safe to be there. Then he would look around the wreckage and find a strange material that would have come with the asteroid or formed by the combustion caused by its entrance in the atmosphere or even burnt down in the earth. Anyway, it would be a very rare thing, never seen before, with characteristics like no other material in planetos.
Being so, there's no need for Gods meddling in the story. Just a unique material, formed by that "falling star", valued so much that can only be carried by those that prove to be worth of it.
Well, just a thought. I don't like the idea that GrrMartin would give so much importance to godly interventions. But he could, after all there is magic in this world.
(Sorry, I'm not rereading this text. Excuse my errors. I'm just to tired and I'm about to collapse against the screen)
My 1year old dances to your opening song every time
I also tend to use them to put her to sleep lmao dude's voice puts her OUT.
+Mrs. Morbid haha. I didn't ever think our videos would be enjoyable to toddlers. That's just about the cutest thing ever. Also glad I can help get her to bed. That's often no easy task
I adore listened to you both! your voices are very soothing, clear and concise! I always listen to your videos before going to bed because they chill be out! I wish I could get a narration of GOT's by you guys! Please keep up the great work!
Thank you so much ! Glad we could help you chil before bed! Maybe I should try that. I'm not good at relaxing though. Haha
in the very first chapter, The Other's sword is similarly described ("milkglass"). Any theory on that?
Any sustenance in an "others=ancient aliens" theory? A lot of what you say reminds me of that show, as far as tying all of these ancient history tidbits together. Could be why humans went underground in the tunnel systems. PJ has a bit about a 'nuclear ice age' type devastation in Westeros.
Excellent video - Your theory building is impeccable
Thinking of Dawn and comparing it to Mjolnir. Considering both may have been made from parts of a star, and the similarities between the names Arthur and Thor... makes you think. :-) Love you guys!
thank you
ohhhhh!! love the title guys! About to press play in 5..4..3..2..1
Hope you enjoy
It's 04am here, but i guess my sleep can wait 20 minutter! Good job guys :)
I found your channel yesterday and it's amazing work! The amount of info book world and real world is awesome!
Thank you so mouch!
much**
Awesome as always, I love what you guys make !!
Just found your guy's channel. This is awesome stuff, please keep it up!
love your videos. I think your Tywin Lannister series we're my favorites.
I think they went a little cheap on the sword Dawn. I didn't appear as glamorous on the show as readers would imagine.
random thought but do you 2 have any characters that you would like to have point of view chapters in winds of winter or dreams of spring? I hope Jorah Mormont has one before George I'll him off.
I think showing the sword as it should be would be too obvious to viewers that it is lightbringer...and we really want a Blackfish POV
First let me say.... you guys are great! I really dig how you not only explain theories...you've made me go back and read the novels ALLLLL over again. Thanks for that. Please...keep up the fantastic job.
I do have a question,though. What are you're thoughts on "The North Remebers" by Silverblood? I like it,but....
is it a song?
No. It's a book. It picks up from Lord Commander Snow being stabbed and completes a lot of the storylines. Outs a pretty good book. It just isn't written by GRRM. Which means the actual story can result different by the time he's done writing.
Give The North Remembers a look.
Sword of The Morning = Dayne's Hero
Sword in The Darkness = Nights Watch
Your videos are incredibly well researched! I just found you off of a Preston Jacobs recommendation and haven't watched too many of your videos so I don't know if you've already made a video on this, but do you think melisandre and the other red priests actually see messages from the R'hollor, or are they just faking it?
So, the question remains unspoken. Who's the next sword of the morning from house Dane? Ned and Ashara son JON ?
That is what we think...Edric is too young to wield a 5-6 foot long greatsword...he could probably swing it, but not efficiently...that leaves only Jon
Jon is descendant from House Dayne on his Targaryen side. Dyanna Dayne married King Maekar and they would have been Jon's 3xs Great Grandparents (in the books at least, I still don't understand why they left Jaehaerys II out of the show). So I believe with his connection to House Dayne, Jon may be able to be Sword of the Morning.
we're actually nearly positive that Jon is Ned and Ashara's son and it is Aegon that is Rhaegar and Lyanna's...that seems to explain the existence of the correct number of important children born at the end of Robert's Rebellion, as Jon, Dany and Aegon all appear to be very important going forward, and the books and supporting material practically scream at you that Ned and Ashara met and fell in love at Harrenhal and continued a relationship afterwards...there is absolutely no reason to waste time and page space on that in every book as well as several character profile pages in the app if that wasn't important
The Order of the Green Hand Just needed to hear the voice of reason again state what I have believed and tried to explain to the RLJ population. Thanks so much! QOT.🌹 🌹
I am missing something, apologies. Who is this Aegon that you speak of?
This is my favourite video from your channel.
Thank you so much. This is one we've looked forward to making for months
Love this theory. Jon is the Sword in the Darkness who will be reborn as the Sword of the Morning. The Azor Ahai myth is another clue the Daynes are of godly decent. The legend claims Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer by sacrificing Nissa Nissa, but what if Lightbringer is not a real sword? Instead, Azor Ahai thrust his "sword" (penis) in Nissa Nissa and she later died giving birth to the first Sword of the Morning who followed the falling star to what is now Starfall. The first Sword of the Morning or the Last Hero had a dog and picked lilac as his house's colors in honor of his mother, the Amethyst Empress.
And since Sirius is a binary star, which was believed to be the soul of Isis (who had an invisible twin named Nephthys), I can't help but think it's meant to forshadow Jon is a twin.
You briefly cover a thought that Jon has about four constellations, the ice dragon, the shadow cat, the moon maid, and the sword of the morning. According to your theories John is related to the sword of the morning which is Arthur Dayne, Arthur Dayne is Mance Raider, and he was attacked by shadow cat and tells John the story. And the phrasing is "He was old friends" with these 4 things. Do you think this passage foreshadows Jon or Aurther's storyline? Someone will encounter an ice dragon perhaps? I have no clue who or what the moon maid is though.
When telling me all this about the Daynes and them being descended from Gods and the Starks Line coming from Florian the fool who's also a bastard of Garth Green hand and Azor Ahai makes me think of Jon and his parents being Eddard and Ashara. And how he will end the Long Night and is Azor Ahai reborn. Especially when hearing the lilac meaning of house Dayne's color is rebirth and how Jon will be brought back to life in the books.... I wrote this half way in the video and just finished watching it I was on the right path with this one!
Idk why the intro gets me pumped up like I'm about to mosh or something.
My mind continues to be blown. Well done as always!
So did you ever make a connection about that one time Hodor was afraid to enter the crypts and the release of the winged snake breathing a river of fire? Did Hodor see this beast? or sense him somehow? Does the timing work out right?
Excellent summation! I believe you've hit the nail on the head!!!
thank you so much...this has been a video we wanted to make for months, and we put a few series to bed in the past month or so we could
Okay, so Jon being a secret Dayne definitely has appeal... especially if he is duel wielding Dawn and Longclaw.
5:42 falling stars are actually very cold on impact the air friction at a higher altitude burns them but by the time they get closer to earth the resistance becomes an air cushion
!!!!!!Forged from the Heart of a Fallen Star- what if Nissa Nissa is a descended God ( Fallen Star ), which would allign with Azor Ahai forging his sword
btw Fallen Star --> Fallen God ---> Lucifer ----> Lightbringer
TiltMeHarder Daddy Yeah, wake up sheeple!
Lucifer was/is no God. Just a powerful angel.
and the gods we are speaking of in ASOIAF are also not omnipotent, just maybe powerful beings that descended...
didnt mean that as an actual god, more of an 'otherworldly' kind
Amazing as always! :D
Thanks midge!
hahah midge :D
wow that was deep, I love it. you guys really do your homework, great job!!!!!
Thanks SPQ!