HELIX vs AXE III (Can you REALLY hear the difference?)
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Helix Collection: tonejunkiestor...
Fractal Collection: tonejunkiestor...
Blindtest.... Can you hear the difference between the Helix and the Axe III/FM9? Put your guesses in the comments below....did you get it right?
The difference is so minimal that axe might not worth the price difference, especially if you are not a professional player.
I almost always preferred B - but just because it sounded more clear and open. I'd still take helix if I were working live for ease of use and ease of adjusting.
Yeah man, adjusting parameters on the FM9 is a TOTAL pain when compared with the Helix.
Modeler A = Axe FX, Modeler B = Helix.
EDIT - Conclusion: I thought Modeler A sounded better throughout. But I own a Helix - so I was very happy to be wrong!
Haha nice! 👍
B sounder better at the beginning and A sounded better towards the end. Both are good.
Yeah I agree - I think the Purple Plexi was the only one I preferred the Helix
Axe seemed to be more 'hi-fi' - but in a mix there would be no difference, plus you can just add an equalizer.
Yeah, plus FOH or a mix engineer will change both of them to fit the live mix or recording mix how they deem fit
Yeah, the splitting hair of a difference can be fixed with a EQ for note clarity
That Hifi can be misleading though ... cuz a more craze eq the more work .
The fractal has a more tailored spiked eq.. honestly you can get the same thing pairing a HX Stomp with a eq preamp pedal. I am not sure why people don't try it. It will make your notes jump out and give you more clarity .
The A clips didn't sound as polished and thus gravitated to B but are guitars supposed to be polished? Being an owner of a Line 6 Helix, I will say, I'm happier now hearing this comparison video as it just proved, I paid the right amount to get pretty damn good sounds! #proudowner #line6 #line6helix
I'd agree!
I must admit B was a lot better here. I think both can be good in a mix but the amp feel was here for the B.
A has also that « ear fatigue » stuff that I often find in the digital domain B didn’t have
Both sound good across all demos. To get the final sounds though, which took more tweaking vs which were almost ready to go, Helix or Axe-FX?
Save $$. Buy a helix
A very good point!
In a mix not really! I played with a buddy of mine. He had a helix floor and I had fm9 turbo! Couldn’t tell a difference
Ah thanks for the real world experience! They are very very close
I guessed Axe as B correctly. Helix has a bit of fizziness with gain. Probably down to oversampling/anti-aliasing TBH. I own Helix products and love them BTW.
Agreed on the fizziness
Wow, I prefer the Helix every time. The Fractal sound more one-dimensional to me.
Very interesting!
A’s cleans are jangly and musical to me. However, there’s a more prominent fizz in the lower frequency of A’s overdriven sounds that are too spitty for my liking. It may be something that you just have to EQ out or use a different flavor of OD drive.
I guessed correct right away. I've owned both units. The Fractal is just better (to me - it's all preference)! That's why I currently own the FM9. But I will say...for it's age...the Helix is still absolutely incredible.
Yep, hard to believe Helix is almost 10yrs old
In the mix noone would tell the difference.
Yep yep!
I've spent a lot of time comparing every Helix amp model, and I have to say that I think this comparison is not representing the Helix as well as it could be IME.
I think they'd actually get closer to the flavors they're going for by using tone match IRs with the Matchstick Ch1, US Princess, and P75 Brt as starting points for the Vox, Fender, and Marshall sounds respectively.
I love the Helix, but I don't love every amp model in it - I sometimes have to use my ears and try adjacent amp models to the sound I'm going for to get the best match. I get that they're trying to compare apples to apples here, but IME this isn't actually as good as the Helix can do.
I also noted that the Master control was dimed on all of the Helix amp models - that is a pretty easy way to make the tone flubbier and remove the top-end 'air', which is apparent when compared to the Fractal. On certain amp models, reducing the Master a bit can lead to more clarity, sheen, and headroom.
Also noted the post-amp dynamics and EQ processing that wasn't necessarily there in the Fractal patches. Pretty easy to exaggerate positive and negative aspects of a modeled amp by running additional processing after it.
I'll have to try that Master Volume down - thanks for commenting
@@thesoozeTJ Sure thing, I appreciate your response and the effort that went into this comparison - just figured I'd share some insights from stuff I've learned the hard way.
The conventional wisdom on tube amps is that they have to be cranked up loud enough to hit the 'sweet spot', generally right at the onset of power amp distortion, but I've found that the Helix amps 'sweet spot' is actually a little different than the real deal. For example, common knowledge/advice on dialing in an Soldano SLO will tell you that it 'opens up' past halfway on the master volume. But when you do this on the Helix, the sound is compressed and flubby.
Justin York, guitarist and owner of York Audio (excellent IRs) commented to a thread of mine on TGP with a comparison clip using his real SLO against the Helix, and noted that his master volume setting was below 2 in order to get the top end presence back that the real amp had. In most amp/Helix comparisons, you can hear the lack of top end presence and the relative flubbiness of the lower midrange when the master volume setting on the Helix is off. Some amp models benefit from maxed or high master volume settings, but I find myself generally pulling them down a bit to find the sweet spot between opening the top end back up and retaining thickness.
On the amp selection bit, I couldn't get a decent plexi sound out of the unit (even with great IRs) until I happened across the P75 Brt - it's a little more JTM-y than a straight up JMP, but nothing has scratched my non-master volume Marshall itch in the Helix like it. I've spent hours dialing in the other plexi models and they're all relatively honky and boxy in the midrange. For the P75 Brt on humbuckers, I usually start with Drive around 4, Bass around 3, Mid & Treble & Presence & Master between 7-9. Seems counter intuitive to pick a different amp for the 'plexi' thing, but that's something I've come across a lot in the Helix. Same thing with the 5150 - I think the Vitriol eats the PV Panama for breakfast for that sound. The Vitriol, based on the Peavey Invective, is still a modernized 5150 variant but it actually nails the general 5150 thing better than the straight-up 5150/6505.
I have the Helix, Kemper, and Headrush…. The Helix has this awful fuzzy distortion that I can’t stand… especially on the clean models… if you play super soft like Jonathan Cordy, you can get by with the Line 6 stuff, but if you have a heavy picking/strumming hand , the Helix really shows its weakness. In a mix, you probably won’t notice it much, but it drives me crazy
Listening on my monitors I can tell that B is fuller and the note separation is more apparent on with a lot of gain.
B definitely sounds brighter and less drive
I did notice on one clip the drive was less on the Fractal (even though I attempted to match as best I could)
Are you using tone matched IRs?
Considering 70% of the tone comes from the speaker cabinet or IR it's not surprising they sound the same.
How about a Kemper VS FM-9 shootout.
Yep Tone Matched on both. Kemper vs Axe is inevitable!
Funny.. Decided to give A to the Helix despite the expectation that Fm9 will sound a tiny bit better an A sounded better to me, but I know my Helix and found some characteristical signs in those samples. You almost got me.... almost 😅 At least not much of a difference. I was on the edge of buying an Fm9. Now I think I will wait for the next generation.
Never a bad idea to see what's coming next before buying 👍
That Hifi Eq can be misleading though ... cuz a more crazed eq the more work on some devices.
The fractal has a more tailored spiked eq in this video.
You can get the same type sound pairing a HX Stomp with a eq preamp pedal so your notes jump out and give you more clarity .
I thought B was the Helix... I was so sure too that after the first 2 clips I skipped a bit to see the answer. That's wild!
Whoa!
Can you still feel the difference? Aha
Factual sounds way better. Tell the Helix to go sit in the back of the class.
😜
Kinda pointless test, the point should be is it doing what you want it to do. But i prefer a sound thats thick and not thin yet still has the clarity, ax is the only one that does that easily, but helix is the king of user friendly, and thats coming from a quad cortex guy. The only reason is use qc is because i hate scribble strips, prefer big blocks on a big display, helix lt does this but its too big footprint
Thanks for watching!
I instantly knew Helix was A. Sounds muddier. Love my Helix, but I must say I liked the Fractal better. Sounds like a real amp, brighter and less processed. Helix is still amazing though ; best guitar related purchase I've made in 6 years.
Very cool 😎
A sounds processed B sounds like a real amp
Interesting- thanks for watching
Wasn’t until the modulation effects that I could pick one out over the other. Excellent noodles! I’d happily take either. I’m glad I have the Helix!
Sweet! Can’t go wrong with either.
Helix all the way
A sounds like brilliant shit 💩 of Helix. B sound like Fractal.
😅
Wow! Another great video!
Well, I own them BOTH… I actually guessed right, but honestly, it was shear luck. On some I preferred A, some I preferred B. Seriously so close!!
In this specific comparison AXE takes the cake IMO. More clarity, notes aren’t as jumbled together. I’m sure some EQ adjustments on the Helix would address this issue however.
For sure - I played with the EQ a bit, but didn't want to totally mess with the preset the way they come up when you buy them. They were dialed in years apart in some cases, and probably with different guitars that made the EQ make sense for that context.
I liked B more and thought it was the Fractal unit. You could spot the difference in the distorted stuff when much dissonance was going own, B was clearer and you pick up more details in the distortion structure. A had more digital fizz in it which acts like a noise floor obscuring the sound and causing ear fatigue making you turn the volume down.
Couldn't differentiate the cleaner sounds, in my opinion you only spot the differences here when playing the units yourself.
lol, The Gear Page is going to explode. 💥
HAHA good ole TGP
B was easily preferred to me.
Edit: I see comments saying in a mix it wouldn't matter, I really disagree. A wouldn't stand out well in a mix
I…don’t know what it is you think you’re saying, but what you are saying is that sounds from one of the most widely used modelers on the market wouldn’t stand out well in a mix. This has been proven false on innumerable occasions.
I have no idea which unit is which but for guitar 1 I preferred B and for guitars 2 and 3 I prefer A
Edit
Just seen the results at the end. Interesting that it maybe the pickup type that influenced my decision
It's true that different guitars will react differently with the presets. All about the "tone is an equation" thing!
Both sound great. One thing’s for sure- thesooze has been crushing it lately on here, playing and tone wise.
Thanks dude! Really appreciate that 🙏
Hearing is only part of the equation. The way the units feel/respond is let even close. Fractal is just superior
100% - Fractal feels way better!
helix sounds more compressed
It’s funny bc I expect the Helix to sound worse, so I’m looking for good vs bad. But there are times A sounded good and then B sounded better. Not way better, but close. Vice versa for A sounding bad and then B sounded worse… incremental, not major. I think my initial sense is thrown off bc the more I listened, the more I adjusted. Either of them sound good… I won’t pretend one is way better. The only standout clear difference I heard was in the chorus example (B sounded way wider), but that could be the difference in settings.
Yeah the chorus was killer on the Fractal, tried a few on Helix and just moved on for times sake haha
Please let me know what is the best sounding and feeling unit between the Axe FX, QC and Kemper
Lately, I've been in Camp Fractal for best sound/feel (even though I personally love the Kemper and always will 😄)
I have a Helix, a Kemper and a fractal AxeFX III and I go to the Fractal every time for the sound. I go to Kemper or Helix for the presets which are easier to get
Like which presets on Kemper/Helix?
I preferred A over B, before knowing the "answer." Especially comparing 11:35 (A) and 11:44 (B). I found the low-freq rumble of B distracting. However, I would have engaged the high cut on the IR block (IDK maybe at 4KHz/6dB octave) of the Helix to reduce the fizz.
True, some further EQing could make them even closer (didn't want to mess with them TOO much for the sake of comparing our two products as they come)
It's a truly awesome time to be a guitarist even if aspiring. I immediately recognize it but this consensus may take some years maybe decades to form as the old school approach still used even by The Edge & Daniel Lanois -- maybe the guys who articulated the basis for contemporary worship guitar first if not deliberately so -- continues.
Wonderful & practically indistinguishable soundscapes throughout that should make both Fractal & Helix very proud of their products!
A great perspective!
B usually sounded better to me. But I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference in a mix.
Very true
I'm wondering if anyone experiences what I do... I don't claim to hear which one is which initially (though I do hear a difference, of course), but what I've noticed is maybe ear fatigue, or I don't know what to call it -- like just a very slight fingernail-on-chalkboard feeling after hearing the Helix for long periods of time, like the sound is good, but something is not quite right.
I have a Kemper and a Pod Go, and I want to love the Pod Go for its size and its price -- I would buy 3 if I loved it, and I wouldn't use my Kemper just because it's not as convenient -- but I can play the Kemper for hours on end, using any of the top profiles, and be just as excited about playing at the end as at the beginning. But with the Pod Go, with Jonathan Cordy's presets, with Ownhammer IR's, or original presets, I just don't want to play anymore after about an hour. This happens with headphones, out of a sound system, or with my return speaker. I don't know if it's a feeling, or if I'm actually hearing something, but for long practice sessions or concerts, I always come back to the Kemper. I'm guessing I would have the same long-term "settled, comfortable" feeling with the AXE III, also.
The ear fatigue is an interesting take, and something I think I experience without always knowing it or naming it.
I experience the exact same thing and you are not hallucinating but right on the money.
What you are describing are the effects aliasing distortion, a very nasty and unmusical distortion which lays on top of the sound and makes it muddy and unpleasant to listen to not unlike looking at an pixelated jpeg imo.
It's created when you model distortion in the digital domain so ALL modelers suffer from this in one way or another.
The only way to tackle this is to throw raw processing power at it by oversampling. Fractal units use much of their DSP power just for this which is the reason they dedicate an entire DSP core just for the amp block in their smaller units.
You can find plenty of infos about this topic and comparisons to other modelers on their forums.
I easily preferred "B". Going with B = Fractal. I expected the shootout to be a much harder choice
Nice! There were times I preferred the Helix, times I preferred the Axe.
@@thesoozeTJ at 4:48, that helix tone was nice for sure.
Ok, about eight minutes into the video, I think "A" is Helix and "B" is Axe III.
Edit: Finished the video, and turns out i was correct. There's something in the Helix sound that just gives it away. Hard to describe, but i think of it as a lack of purity in the tone. There always seems to be this other kind of sound present, going on around the core tone. I don't know what it is, but its there in every Helix tone, especially ones that have a bit of grit. I used Helix for years, and tbh, you didn't notice that weird sound in a live band scenario, but my Kemper does have (for the most part, depending on quality of profile of course) a purity to the tone, that Helix lacks.
Yeah that lack of purity some called fuzziness and fizziness
Guessing B is Fractal and A is Helix. B is a lot clearer where A sounds more compressed and fuzzy.
Helix def has a fuzzy quality that's tough to dial out.
@@thesoozeTJits the grumble in the low end, drives me crazy even the iridium does it better, specially running big verbs into the amps
@@LEUNN_ I’ve been super impressed with the ToneX One in this regard - takes wet pedals really well and close to tube amps
@@thesoozeTJ I have 2 on the way, saw a pic of your board running them in one of the FB groups, would love to see a video covering how you set them up, how they sound and which captures are your favorites!!
@@LEUNN_ working on that video next week I think!
I will say A is Helix, B is AXE/fractal. But in the later ones they seemed to flip for some reason. Yeah I got em right. But like some of the A's in the later ones. Usually John Cordy uses High Cuts esp. on Helix to tame some of the Fizziness.
I thought Helix sounded better on the Purple Plexi
The difference was actually very apparent. Helix sounded flubbier and falling apart while the axe sounded clearer across the frequencies. Axe may have been a bit louder and maybe less gain on the amp? In a dense mix you probably couldn’t tell a difference but having owned both the axe feels a lot better under the fingers to play.
Agreed on the feel!
Agreed! The amps are the clear difference between the two… especially driven the helix tends to get pretty ratty and falls apart.
In the demo comparisons I've heard, in general the Fractal will sound warmer, thicker, sometimes a little nasal, and the Helix will sound brighter, clearer, and more open. That is the case here as well. I got most of them right, a few I couldn't tell. I had no idea there were going to be so many examples, or I would have written them down.
I have an HX Stomp, so if I want it to sound like a Fractal, pretty much all I need to do is turn down the Tone Knob on my guitar 3-4 numbers. At that setting, my Stomp sounds virtually identical to a Fractal.
A few people have responded with the Helix being more clear/open -- which is something I hear and appreciate.
Were these eqd differently? Somehow B sounds louder.
I cant tell a difference in quality
Idk get a real amp. Both sound digital😉
HAHA we love "real" amps around here :)
I definitely like the sound of the Axe FX better. I feel like there's a difference in how it handles compression or something because the pick sound is noticeably different. I wonder if its possible to get a similar sound on the Kemper with the pick setting.
Yes - I think Kemper and Fractal share certain characteristics in compression that the Helix lacks. We use a comp before and after the amp on Helix, and it's even worse if those are turned off IMO
Went with B and whatever will be, will be.. :)
Spotted this AXE quality instantly without having one yet, but it will arrive soon.
Helix is good BUT the AXE is totally 3D and i can hear the great amp like response in the mid range, bass and silky highs.
Thanksss
great job!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Guessing A is Helix and B is Ax FX. Let's roll them dice
Nicely done!
@@thesoozeTJ honestly, it was super easy once B played. Nice playing as always! Love your riff collection.
@@ProducerDudes thx very much!