Can ToneX One Upgrade the Helix?
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- Опубликовано: 3 май 2024
- Check us out at: tonejunkiestore.com
Sooze and HW discuss and test if the ToneX can upgrade the Amps in the Helix.
All playing samples used the ToneX in the Helix loop. What did you think...upgrade or not?
I think the best value would be running the TONEX 1 in the loop of the HX Effects.
I've got one running that way, and it's FANTASTIC
That's what I'm thinking of doing with my HX Effects. The newish Two Notes Opus, however, might be a better choice since it would allow you to select a number of preamps/amps via MIDI, no?
This is especially true if you don't need to tweak the amp parameters often - more of a set and forget (real world amp situation)
This video is perfectly timed for me. I’m on my way to grab the TONEX to pair with the helix as an upgrade right now.
Right on! 🤘
Just a follow up. After two days I can say that’s the best the helix has ever sounded. I went with the full TONEX because we can’t get the TONEX one here yet but it once it’s available I bet it will serve a large group of people well. Thanks for the video fellas.
@@yolybuilds3680 So glad you enjoyed it!
I've been runinng a Tonex into a Stomp. This combo is fantastic for me.
+1
Me too. Stomp XL
Very solid choice!
@larriveeman
i notice a little loss in highs/crispness when the tonex is in the loop, do you
I captured the sounds of the line 6 podxt with the Tonex and run it in the loop is my Fender Tone Master Pro.
I’ve been using the Tonex in front of the HX Stomp midi using my own Mesa Lonestar Special captures. Perfect fly rig. Never been happier.
I think they all sounded great. I have the full sized Tonex and my Tonex One will be here Monday. I like to use them to gain access to amps that aren't in the Helix (yet).
Thank you vor the vid, it’s motivated. Sound of tonex one is good if not better in more than half of examples to my ears. Less “sand” in the sound than helix, but when i will get mine tonex one i’ll check and compare with my helix in a full arrangements and live. By the way, very impressive and your patches for helix just also amazing. Cheers!
Helix 2 should come with a specific slot for the TONEX one instead of expression pedal 😅
Haha yes to this!!
I think that this is a much bigger upgrade for the HX Stomp than for the full Helix. Especially if you can run a small board, Volume, boost, comp, Tonex, HX Stomp. Will free up some DSP for wet effects.
Exactly
Yep, good point. Stomp or the XL would benefit more.
I’ve got a ToneX one on order. Using it as an expression to my Helix Floor is one of several applications I want to explore.
I have a stomp xl, and I’ve ordered a tonex one to use in the loop as an amp block.
I’ve been saying that the tonex one, just gave the helix hx units a longer life for sure, and added tech we all wanted for these units at a great price.
Thank you for this comparison! Listened to this on my nice headphones. The tonex just has more rich mids on the ac44. Theres just way way more going on. The helix just sounds really processed like its missing a lot of frequencies and thickness. It sounds good, but definitly doesnt have a liveliness to it.
Of course! It was fun to check it out myself since I really wasn't sure what would happen lol
TONEX ONE is nice! Guitar processors can make a big difference in sound depending on the CAB IR you use.
actually there are many IR products on the market, but I think DYNAX IR has the best sound. As stated in their product description, DYNAX IR is really fast. When using IRs, the pick attack is sometimes delayed, and it is difficult to add picking nuances, but their IR prevents all of that. It's revolutionary!
I’ve got to be honest, as someone who owns Helix & Tonex… I truly expected the difference to be MUCH greater than it was! I heard the most difference on the Astra models… but still, very negligible. Great credit to the Helix and to y’all tone matching!!
I compared so many VSTs and even Tonex with Helixe Native and I was never able to hear a quality difference in a mix. Save the money and buy some quality instruments, the impact on the result is way bigger. The great Tonex is only marketing, nothing more.
I felt the same way lol the difference between their tone match and tone x, I honestly couldn’t distinguish. Having switched to in-ears years ago I have always felt my mic’d amp and these helix tones when dialed in are spot on. The only time there is a difference when the amp is in the room with you vs an FRFR speaker and your helix.
@@tcaldwell2429 absolutely feel the same. My PRS MT 15 sounds so similar dialed in like the Badonk, I never felt any differences while playing. The whole thing is a big marketing train. Even producers told me what I always expected and I am a guitarist more than 20 years now.
I'm running the tonex one into the effects loop of my hx stomp xl, the captures are awesome and freeing up the dsp on the stomp makes for a killer rig. very happy. running the unit in fender tone master fr10!
Already ordered one. I'm not an advocate for capture tech in the sense of I'm not buying a helix II is that's all that's new, but for 179 the sound of the tonex one can't be beat. It's going nicely in the loop of my stomp.
I thought the Tonex added a small amount of authenticity that would probably be impossible to hear in a mix
I think that’s true, but earnestly, it does a feely thing I didn’t have in Helix. Not to say, it couldn’t be achieved with Helix, but it’s something that happened right away.
Yeah, Helix is convincing enough in some models, and other models, Helix also just out right nailed.
No need for ToneX for me.
Future version of helix should be able to power 9V pedals for the fx loop!
That would be very cool!
A few years ago I added a Kemper to my Helix as an 'all the amps' upgrade. This Tonex (or similar) is a no- brainer.
I have one on order. But sold the Helix. I paired my full ToneX with my HX Effects.
Killer move 😂
@@tonoselectricosI don’t get what’s funny.
The latency on the Tonex One has been improved so it will work better with HX Effects in keeping the overall latency down.
Having watched the amp model and the amp captures comparison, on RUclips it sounded like the ToneX captures were slightly more open and clear as if you can slightly hear more amp harmonics. It also could be the difference in how the old input level is hitting model versus capture.
They sound so similar (a testament to these guys awesome job with tone matching) but honestly, for $179 to offload Amp/Cabs, it’s not a bad deal. I love Helix but I really wish they updated their devices so their users wouldn’t have to always devise a way around DSP shortages.
I am using the original tonex with HX effects. The midi is super easy if I just simply put the tonex patches in the corresponding slot. No programming midi, just drag and drop in tonex software. The HX effects is controlling everything. The tuner in the HX effects is awesome in strobe mode. So many possibilities. If the tonex one had midi, I would get two and run stereo amps. The cool thing about the send and returns on the HX effects is that you can run dry signal along with the affected signal.
I'm the other way round, have always preferred good modelling over even the best capture tech. BUT for that money I'd still say yes, best of both worlds.....also frees up some DSP which on the Stomp in particular is very useful.
Already ordered one to use with my stomp. Free a lot of dsp and give me more options to use more different drives etc.
How has it worked out?
I’ve been debating about doing this with my helix floor. I already have a wireless unit and always on tuner. If I had the extra money for running those in stereo, I would really consider it
I like captures only for one reason less tweaking more playing. And I definitely think it’s an upgrade for sure kinda wish for midi so you could place the tone x under the board of like a temple audio board.
I think I could use it for my pod go. I don't want to spend a fortune and my pod go wasn't a lot. However, you do get the full tonex pack with the full tonex pedal for recording software.
The Helix owners I know won't bother adding a ToneX to their rig, they're happy with the Helix as is.
What they adding...two Captures?
Then what, they want two more Captures so they add a second one...now they're in for 400 Euros.
Keep in mind when turned OFF the ToneX ONEs are not true bypass so you're actually affecting your Helix tone.
Besides, maybe 200 Euros is cheap for you guys, after shipping and duties it's not so cheap, you can buy a great FX pedal for 200 Euros.
I currently run the UA Dream and Ruby in the FX Loop of my HX Stomp, so, yeah, I would have totally gone the capture route. We need help.
Sometimes i prefered the Helix version, sometimes i preferred the Tonex.
I hope Tonex comes out with a larger all-in-one unit.
Would definitely like to see a ToneX all in one.
I can't see using this with my Floor, but pairing with an HX Stomp would be great! It would save a meaningful amount of DSP (30% +)
I think the idea is always to have the best sound possible. But for me I feel like the modelers only purpose is to simplify carrying around amps pedal boards etc. I feel like if I have to add more to make it up to par then why in the world would I spend that much $ on a unit that’s subpar.
Already got one. With jampoints from IK got it for 150. The edge of breakup tones are better in tonex IMO and the gains clean up more naturally than helix models when you roll back on volume. The actual pedal is super fidly though and definitely just sticking to 2 tones for me.
i notice a little loss in highs/crispness when the tonex is in the loop, do you
I'm currently doing this with a Headrush Core into a Roland GR-55 :)
I don’t think we have exhausted the helix’s capabilities. That thing is a beast. The helix alone can do a lot. But the Tonex would be a good addition to the HX Effects
Great job lads!! Hmmm, this is a tough one. The ToneX sounds better, and I'm sure the feel is better. But two things come to mind: 1) it is certainly not a level of "my girlfriend/boyfriend can tell the difference" better..under no circumstances would they notice the switch over even in solo, much less in a mix. Also 2) the whole point of modeling is to reduce gear and cost- this is now another device to pay for, bring and power up at a gig, small though it may be.
To avoid buying- maybe just watch this video, Fab Filter ProQ 3 EQ match the Helix against the final ToneX sounds a second time and figure out how to dial out some of that compression and get the open-ness. The other thing is that the ToneX has more apparent volume- i know the samples were volume matched but the Line 6 compression makes it sound "smaller," If you do a granular secondary tone match, then turn the Line 6 up by half a dB, slight cut at 150 hZ and slight boost at 2.5k in a mix it might work just as well. But of course one could then just spend $200 and throw a ToneX in the loop. Thanks again gents for a great comparison!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching/commenting.
I think the pieces that is always missing when RUclipsrs review this stuff is this point: how will you listen to it? What speaker do you use? Do you use studio monitors or a Powercab or a Gemini or Headrush or....so when you talk about this modeler vs that capture device you should always explain how you listen to it because that has a profound impact on the sound that you hear going into your DAW and into my ears when listening to your video than it will if I use the same exact settings and listen to it through a Powercab. And does the Powercab do the best job of representing the sound you heard compared to what I hear?
Listening through Yamaha HS-5s in my office, or on Audio Techinca headphones.
Just in case someone keeps getting some dry sound in your output using tonex with HX, the send block has a dry blend. You may or may not want that in your signal.
I've had my Helix since 2020. As a gigging musician in a cover band I also have a variax and the combination is killer for getting all the sounds and tunings I need. With snapshots it makes things so much less complicated at the gig. That being said I already have a Tonex One on order from Sweetwater to give me capture ability. I hope when Line 6 comes out with the replacement for the Helix they add capture, Bluetooth connectivity and add wireless connectivity for guitar/variax. That's not asking for much is it? Oh, and on your capture vs modeled, some of your captures had a more pleasing bottom end fullness, but on other patches I liked the Helix better. But that's what makes this a awesome $179 upgrade. Viva la choices!!!
Long live choices!
I think for the majority of the samples, the difference isn't that much of a deciding factor . The only exception was @13:00. If I already have the Helix I think I don't need to buy THIS pedal.
As I own *none* of the current generation of AMP/FX solution I didn't find that it was particularly evident which was better. Sure there was some difference in tone but it wasn't clear which was better, if those were your amps, either of those would suffice. I think in the higher gain amps it would become clearer which was better pretty quickly, I mean the only medium gain amp that Helix went to bat for was the JCM800, the rest are a little lacking and you will always be able to get newer sounds though the capturing tech. If I could find a ToneX equivalent device with better functionality for gig use, and an excellent FX unit I would buy that in a second. The Ampero Stage II was very close, but, the processing power was being eaten up very quickly and it's modelling amp section was getting iffy with latency. I hope I can find the perfect unit soon.
Crazy about big names like Line6, Fractal Audio, Kemper just let IKM building Deep learning kingdom
Exactly!
I wouldn’t gig this combo with the helix just because I dont want to find power for the tone x, I love the tone x with the hx stomp but I have it in a pedalboard with it’s own power, I‘m not sure if the helix has a power out.
BEWARE of latency stacking!
I didn't feel any latency at all, but for sure this might be an issue with some scenarios
Latency is apparently very light on the tone x one, even less then the first tone X, you should be finz
@@thesoozeTJ that's what I meant. If you have a digital wireless, put the tone x In the loop of a helix, fractal or quad and then go into a digital mixing console. Maybe even digital inear system, you reach easily 10ms of latency.
Better to use analog pedals in conjunction with the Helix!
I'm literally one firmware upgrade away from doing this. I want the ToneX One to have USB MIDI.
As it is now, it's a great studio tool or a 2 trick pony. So on my board, it'd be a permanent clean+edge of breakup channel on HX Stomp with a variable rhythm+lead channel on the Stomp itself. But that honestly feels like a waste, it's only a DSP saver in that case, it won't even save on blocks. Ok, it might be 2 blocks if I need a compressor only on the clean channel. HX Stomp just spoils me for choice when it comes to amp sounds and snapshot switching. And since I run an external delay+reverb, I have DSP to generally run two amps.
But as a studio tool where you can actually make use of all 20 presets (or more) and sit in the middle of a traditional pedalboard? Sounds awesome. In fact, having two, one of amps and one of drive pedals would be cool.
Honestly, as an add-on to HX Stomp at this point, I'd opt for a big ToneX before the small one. Hook it up to MIDI and choose whichever captures. I could run it as any number of things per-preset: clean channel, dirty channel, pedal driver, pedal platform, IR block, power amp sim, etc.
I am also really wishing for USB MIDI on the ToneX One. If it had MIDI I'd immediately buy 2 of them.
I totally agree. I think if they can add usb midi in the next firmware, they will probably sell twice as many of these. I have seen a lot of people comment that they wouldn't hesitate to buy one if it had midi, myself included.
I think the Tonex has a feel and punch that can't be relayed here which may be superior - but love Line 6 and love Helix.
Two larger TONEX pedals controlled with the midi from Helix…. Yes!
The low end is so much better on the ToneX. The highs don't get as shrill either. It's a well rounded sound depending on what captures you get obviously. Tone Factor has some good ones
I think that even just from this short test a Helix user perceives that sensation under their hand. The difference in sound weight and complexity (i'm an Helix user🤠)
Tweaking sounds, even trying to find bad sounds, is astronomically more important for getting my creative juices flowing then plugging in a guitar and immediately getting a gorgeous sound. I'm just wired that way. So I'm actually not that excited about capture technology,
What I am very excited about is that the Tonex One will free up enough DSP on my HX Stomp to finally allow me to use Polyshift together with other more interesting DSP hungry effects!
On a different note: would it even be possible to make captures of poweramps pushed to their limit? That world be useful for so much more than just guitar
With tonex basicly yes, it captures what you feed it. It makes a snapshot of what your rig is doing and how it's configured at that moment. It can't reproduce stuff like reverb and delays because there is too many variables but if it's gain, boost, fuss, amps, etc it will capture it
To me the Tone x captures hat a slightly More „Natural“ Sound, that I am missing on my Helix all the time (whats the reason why I ended up with buying a Quad Cortex, where I definitely thought sounding More Natural Sounds at many high gain amp types but lacking More good clean/crunchs)
Obviously the ToneX One ins & outs handle instrument level based on the application here but can it also handle & line level in & out? Asking for a keyboard friend
And a French channel clocks this little powerhouse in at 1.2ms latency. Excellent!
And lmao at the cork sniffing here you guys are BRILLIANT. Really when any of us listen to the comparisons blind, the tones are so incredibly close they're practically interchangeable to delegate the ToneX One role as an external block to free up Helix processor usage. And it's furthermore a testament to your work in delivering top shelf quality tones here to Helix modeller users. 🍻
Makes sense for sure. At $179 I'm sure it will be on all kinds of pedal boards.
There is some talk on some demos about latency. Do you guys see that as a significant issue.
None that I could feel at all.
As a Kemper user for over 10 years, I was thinking that the ToneX was going to be the clear winner. I actually liked the Helix better in most of the clips. I've been thinking about getting an HX Stomp for rehearsals and I think I'll be looking into that soon. Thanks for the comparison!
I know it's subjective and all but I think you have re-evaluate what you heard. It could be that you are so used to the digital amp sound that you can't hear it but there is a clear difference. Helix = flat, 2D sound vs the tonex = rich, 3D sound. Don't listen for the tone of the sound because you can hear they couldn't dial them in the same but man, there is a clear difference in the organicness of the sound. Again, each to his own and you are entitled to what you believe is better but trust me on this. Maybe you can't hear it because of RUclips audio compression or whatever but you should reconsider and maybe go and listen to a tonex at a music store because it is insanely good. I have an original btw and next to it a helix amp just sound lifeless
This is a hilarious reply. “It’s subjective but my opinion is more correct, try again. We both listened to the same RUclips clip with the same compression but it’s only negatively affecting you, not me. Again, to each his own but trust me, you didn’t like the other one more, even though you said you did. Btw I have an amp”
@@1717jaydogGlad you enjoyed it
Yeah I thought ToneX would run away with it, but Helix really held its own!
Sooze using the Black Falcon, YOU LOVE THAT GEETAR!!!! Nice Samples. Sound Great. Guess I could try to Tone match these for the FM9, to bad you guys do not do Fractal. But I watch anyway!!!! Love my Ytube Buddies.
Fractal coming out VERY soon :)
@@thesoozeTJ GREAT!!!!
@@ksharpe10 we have like 15 packs made 😉
@@thesoozeTJ At the Forsale Link?
@@ksharpe10 should be this week
ToneJunkie is going to have to start leaving a spot for a Loop for the ToneX. I have to say the difference I heard is not that stark. But for $79.99 I have room of this in my pedal chain. At some point I'll add one.
Don't listen to the tone difference, listen for the overtones. The amp magic if you will. There is a clear difference. Helix = flat and lifeless vs tonex = organic, lively, rich
I got one to add another amp to my fm3
You can run the wet effects after the ToneX One?
When it's used in the loop of the Helix, the loop block can be placed wherever you want.
When I owned one, I found that the helix modelling has a "sound" regardless of the amp, and I really struggled with it, having done years of playing real amps, and knowing (like HW says) how a real amp sounds mic'd. The helix sounds good, but the tonex sounds more like an actual mic'd amp. That said, I don't know that the ToneX One sounds "better" - just more accurate. If you haven't done a lot of playing into mic'd tube amps, I think it would be a toss up sonically.
Yes, agreed on the "Helix sound" - subjective on whether that's a good or bad thing.
I’ve got no complaints with my helix but I will certainly try this since it’s only $179. More interested in the feel
me 2
Well you should be in for a treat because if you love how a amp feel... well the tonex is as close as it gets
@@RareMaestro - that’s what I’m intrigued by. I’ve honestly always really been impressed with the feel I get with the helix and a good IR. Excited to check this out and see the difference.
In regards to feel: the ToneX was more compressed and spungey, even with the internal comp set to zero.
@@thesoozeTJ - interesting. Did you like it?
best way to use an helix is 4 cable method with amp. Sooooo with toneX it would be perfect match.
The tonex sounds pretty good
Pair it with a Stomp and have a killer tiny board.
Run two ToneX One pedals together, one for the amps and one for the stomp boxes.
Yup, I'm considering doing exactly that
You can get comparable tones with both but the tonex saves you amp/cab block at least.
Yep, especially on a HX Stomp
honestly where you put them side by side like that, there’s not a whole lot of difference between the two. Like with a full mix and over there course of a song, you won’t be able to tell which is which.
Very true.
I'd pick the sound of the Helix over the Tonex for almost of the samples.
Interesting! Thanks for watching/commenting.
This is also a dsp upgrade. Since amp modeling and cabs uses up a lot of dsp. Now you could run the helix in in full spillover mode and still have a robust amount of DSP per preset since you’re not using any for amp modeling.
Good point!
Nope. I’d get one to run with my Helix Floor or Stomp, but the situation with software is too unclear. I don’t want to buy a $180 pedal and then find I have to spend another $200 on software in order to access a specific amp that I want.
Not a huge difference, but the Tonex ones generally had a bit more meat in the mids/high mids
Was latency an issue at all? With Helix you have AD DA. With the Tonex One in the loop, you have AD DA AD DA AD DA. I’ve also seen another video which points out the latency of the Tonex One remains when it’s bypassed
Hx-Effects + tonex one = helix mk2
It'd be great to try but worries about stacking latency of two devices to affect the feel. If the NAM player was closer to this price point, it'd be a no brainer for me though
Helix + Tonex its very nice!!!
The drawback of ToneX one is the absence of midi. This is an issue if you want to couple it with helix.
Yep - it's great setting the amp wherever you want it per snapshot in the Helix. You could do this with MIDI, but you'd need the larger more expensive ToneX.
Yeah you convinced me.
To all Yamaha executives watching this video and thinking of buying IK Multimedia... please don't.
In the most cases I liked Helix tones from demo section more than ToneX ones, so it might not be worth upgrading :)
I'm kind of with you! They were much closer than I expected, plus you get all the snapshot benefits of using Helix amps you lose with the ToneX One.
Good stuff boyzzzz
Glad you enjoyed it!
What guitar is that? And yes I will upgrade with the Tonex.
Which guitar? There are several used.
@@thesoozeTJ sorry, the pink one
@@thomaswhudson that’s a Suhr JM Pro with roasted neck and Lambertron pickups
IK M is going to sell a gazillion of the TONEX ONEs
Tonex all the way!
most players don't own amps worth making captures of.
You perfectly got it. And if you just buy the capture, you can also use modelling ;)
Helix 2:
Touchscreen not important
.
Keep everything but add:
The ability to capture/profile
More DSP
Change presets without losiing signal (like the Boss gt)
Run lines 2-3 as a dual path as opposed to only 1-2, 3-4
I would love if they made routing dual amps / parallel paths more flexible.
All these optional at hand and…nobody really listens to music anymore
100 % Best Sound is HELIX is more bigger and sound is real
Anything that's not helix amps/cabs upgrades the helix. Lol