Nice video, Ron. ATR may have listened to your remark about the stick pusher. According to ATR 42-500 FCOM from 1995, the stick pusher can be activated at any altitude. According to the FCOM from 2001, the stick pusher is inhibitted during 10 seconds after lift off, and in flight when the aircraft descends below 500 ft RA. 😀
I read the ATR’s use a NACA 230xx airfoil. This airfoil was designed in the late 30s and used on Hellcat, Wildcat, Avenger, FW190, AM6 Zero. It is used on Beech Bonanza thru King Air. Its outstanding characteristic is a low pitching moment which allows a fighter to be tossed around without retrimming. As the angle of attack increases, the 230xx airfoils form a recirculation bubble a bit behind the leading edge on top surface. The bubble expands and lengthens as AoA increases. At stall, the bubble collapses and a sharp stall results. Bam. Wind tunnel tests confirm. The problem worsens as wing loading increases. With icing, who knows. It’s really not the best choice for this application. Don’t know if ATR’s still uses this airfoil.
I seem to remember that during this time the ATR's were, if just temporarily, moved out to operate on the West Coast where icing was less common, while the SAAB's were moved to the center and eastern part of the country. As to the ATR boots, weren't they a bit different in that the pneumatic channels were oriented in a fore and aft manner vs. the more traditional lateral direction? It's obviously been a long time to recall.
You are correct-the boots on the ATR are oriented with the airflow over the wings. Several years ago FedEx was looking to save some money by changing the boots to a more conventional design. A shipset of leading edges with the "new" boots were acquired & delivered to the operator that I spent many years with & were installed on a ATR72. Aircraft was ballasted to 12,000 lbs in the cargo compartment & away it went on its 1st. test flight. About 30 min. later aircraft returns. Abject failure. Crew took the plane up to 15,000 ft. & actuated the boots. Plane literally fell out of the sky-pilot reported they lost 5,000 ft. of altitude before they knew what hit them. Yeah-the ATR boots are that way for a reason.
This reminds me of the Mustang fighter which had a special wing section which if you didnt know could be dangerous. So is the ATR and this was shown in a test the NTSB did after the Chicago accident
Cebu Pacific fly the ATR72 on domestic runs. I haven't been in the Philippines for 5 years or so, but when I was there last I am pretty sure the ATR was new. Have they phased them out since then?
Hmmm did the ATR42/72 Ground course and some acceptance test evaluation for a FFS but thats's all my experience. It's an ok aircraft i guess ut i personaly prefer main gear under the wings like Dash-8 and Fokker-50
@@joefin5900 As the Germans say 'When Schonn den Schonn' (something like: If the oppertunnety is there, do it really good') So go for the Trilander 😄. Youre right of course, but it's still a different league
Ron you're married. Probably not too bad to miss out on parties with beautiful women. As a bachelor, missing out on that would indeed annoy me a little.
This is so french. Our plane killed some people but hey instead of figuring out what happened let's just have a party. Good on you Ron that you walked away
Nice video, Ron. ATR may have listened to your remark about the stick pusher. According to ATR 42-500 FCOM from 1995, the stick pusher can be activated at any altitude. According to the FCOM from 2001, the stick pusher is inhibitted during 10 seconds after lift off, and in flight when the aircraft descends below 500 ft RA. 😀
Thanks for the info!
I read the ATR’s use a NACA 230xx airfoil. This airfoil was designed in the late 30s and used on Hellcat, Wildcat, Avenger, FW190, AM6 Zero. It is used on Beech Bonanza thru King Air. Its outstanding characteristic is a low pitching moment which allows a fighter to be tossed around without retrimming.
As the angle of attack increases, the 230xx airfoils form a recirculation bubble a bit behind the leading edge on top surface. The bubble expands and lengthens as AoA increases. At stall, the bubble collapses and a sharp stall results. Bam. Wind tunnel tests confirm. The problem worsens as wing loading increases. With icing, who knows. It’s really not the best choice for this application.
Don’t know if ATR’s still uses this airfoil.
Another excellent video. I think you are probably the most experienced of the RUclips aviation people I watch. Keep it going!
Wow, thanks!
The French embassy story sounds like when my dad decided to depart my bachelor party early when the “entertainment” started showing up! 😅
I seem to remember that during this time the ATR's were, if just temporarily, moved out to operate on the West Coast where icing was less common, while the SAAB's were moved to the center and eastern part of the country. As to the ATR boots, weren't they a bit different in that the pneumatic channels were oriented in a fore and aft manner vs. the more traditional lateral direction? It's obviously been a long time to recall.
You are correct-the boots on the ATR are oriented with the airflow over the wings. Several years ago FedEx was looking to save some money by changing the boots to a more conventional design. A shipset of leading edges with the "new" boots were acquired & delivered to the operator that I spent many years with & were installed on a ATR72. Aircraft was ballasted to 12,000 lbs in the cargo compartment & away it went on its 1st. test flight. About 30 min. later aircraft returns. Abject failure. Crew took the plane up to 15,000 ft. & actuated the boots. Plane literally fell out of the sky-pilot reported they lost 5,000 ft. of altitude before they knew what hit them. Yeah-the ATR boots are that way for a reason.
@@stevenrobinson2381 That is a really interesting account.
Interesting and informative indeed. Thanks Ron. 🛬
Glad you enjoyed it
This reminds me of the Mustang fighter which had a special wing section which if you didnt know could be dangerous. So is the ATR and this was shown in a test the NTSB did after the Chicago accident
Pretty revalant now
I grew up in Roselawn, IN, not far from the crash site. A memorial by the site was put it, it.
Cebu Pacific fly the ATR72 on domestic runs. I haven't been in the Philippines for 5 years or so, but when I was there last I am pretty sure the ATR was new. Have they phased them out since then?
Hmmm did the ATR42/72 Ground course and some acceptance test evaluation for a FFS but thats's all my experience.
It's an ok aircraft i guess ut i personaly prefer main gear under the wings like Dash-8 and Fokker-50
Don't forget the Britten Norman Islander!
@@joefin5900 As the Germans say 'When Schonn den Schonn' (something like: If the oppertunnety is there, do it really good') So go for the Trilander 😄. Youre right of course, but it's still a different league
Ron you're married. Probably not too bad to miss out on parties with beautiful women.
As a bachelor, missing out on that would indeed annoy me a little.
This is so french. Our plane killed some people but hey instead of figuring out what happened let's just have a party. Good on you Ron that you walked away
A second rate aircraft compared to the Dash 8 in my view, slower and poorer crosswind performance....
The you should like my Dash8-400 flight evaluation coming up soon.
Yeah the -200 series ATR was slower than Christmas
2:30 - funny they couldn't get the name of Alaska Airlines correct . . . .