Just saying a guy in my friends regi says supplying a base with an amount of crates of shirts that is equal to the amount of vowels in the name of the nearest victory point speeds up the unlock by 50%
Great work i wish the devs would just give us at least estimated time when you hover on tech with just "estimated time ~1 hour" no need to be exact but just something
@@TheSkeletonNinja I do agree that it would be nice but I do not expect anything like that. Indicative texts in Foxhole tend to be vague at best. Think things like strutural integrity and the old subregion modifiers are good examples of this.
Its garrison activity (the stat you see at world spawn); people pulling stuff out and submitting new stuff continuously increases activity and increase tech rate. Any other actions that increases activity increases tech rate.
@@FreerkHoltes Guns, ammo, soldier suppies, bandages, grenades, bmats, etc. Just stuff, you have to get players to interact with equipment and "stuff" in the bunker base to increase garrison activity which makes the garrison tech faster.
I don't understand entirely the part where you say "the value is between 1 and 100". Does adding 100 scrap reduces the timer from 41:40 to 31:20 ? Or did it only reduced by few seconds ?
@@aomtte1296 The value between 1 and 100 is me not being sure how much you have to submit before it "triggers" the speed up. I hope that makes more sense? Anyway, regardless what the actual value is, if this value is the case in Live as well I would always just submit 100 to be sure
Thats insane lol I cant believe you had the patience for this but my absolute largest thanks for you. This makes me want to go test more of the wild ideas ive heard in the past since youve established a very solid benchmark. Things people have claimed speeds it up: - Idle hammering of the base itself (pretending like you're repairing it) but this probably doesn’t work because building itself doesnt seem to work. - Dying a lot and or actually respawning - Obviously setting spawn with more people - Submitting "high value" items like tech materials or rmats (probably doesn’t work because 32k scrap didn’t make a difference with 100 scrap) - Drip feeding crates of goodies (every 1 minute submitting a logi truck full of shirt/rifle/grenade/ammo crates) - Praying to markfoot
The last one definitlly DOES help. When praying to markfoot make sure go around a components spawn node with a sledgehammer equipped in either crouch or prone position. Further testing is required to find which stance (prone or crouch) is the most effective though.
Thank you for helping to spread testable results on this stuff! Of all the systems, Bunker Tech repeatedly has the biggest amount of misinformation on how it functions despite being a mechanic that existed prior to when I joined back in W61. Seeing your research into how to speed things up reminds me of the efforts I went thru trying to ask every warden vet what the rules were for speeding up Tech, and getting no straight answers. I also did tests in live and Devbranch (devs never sped up bunker tech back then) and essentially found the same things you found here: - Bunker bases get a flat 30% tech boost by having an internal supply value of X (around 500 of any factory good, like BMats or 7.62) - The act of submitting supplies to a BB has 0 impact on tech rate, but the player presence can indirectly. See next point. - BBs check for ‘minimum activity’, which can be as simple as players driving nearby or someone Setting Spawn and staying in the Hex. If the BB doesn’t get minimum activity, its Tech Rate gets reduced to ~10%. - Multiple Set Spawns on the same BB will specifically give a boost to Garrison tech, no matter what the participants vote for. This is because their Set Spawn activity is considered ‘extra’ beyond the default tech amount, and will boost the left-most tech People have provided back then (and even in these comments) other anecdotes about their secret tips to speed tech. In all the wars I’ve spent building ‘economic’ BBs for backline AI, I have never once seen any deviation from the above results. I’ve tried passing this along to various warden channels, but it never sticks for long.
As an update, I tried submitting a truck full of items (5 crates of bmats and shirts, 2 crates of rifles and ammo, 1 crate of binoculars) every minute on the dot and still got a time of ~31 minutes. I also gassed myself in a bunker over and over again, respawning at the bunker each time, but no change on that either, still ~31 minutes.
@@FreerkHoltes I almost wonder if the garrison upgrades behave differently. I've heard said before that at least provisional garrison always unlocks after a set time so that's making me wonder of the possibility of the AI ones not actually being influenced by player actions as a specific balancing measure. Maybe it's worth retesting just a few things on Concrete or AT garrisons just to see if it's consistent
This is a great video. But like Legend said key component of tech in general is the garrision activity. I would wish for another Video in this same kind of style but everything around the garrision activity. For example what alot of people do is not just standing around and having their spawn to the bunker/TH but also "afk" Hammer on the healther bunker/Townhall to keep activity up. Like i said i enjoyed the video very much. Some things i wondered got answered :)
Very nice. Another environment to test in which should be identical to live server is resistance phase. It is not hard to find out of the way places there as well. Some tests which reflect real gameplay but are missing are: 1) whether significantly higher supply value amounts (not just differing amounts of scrap) - for example, a truckload of 40mm ammunition crates - affect tech rates and 2) whether multiple submissions of the same total value, but over time, affect the rates (if there is a cooldown or maximum rate for submissions to count toward tech.)
O good point. Resistance phase might be a good way of testing the "Real" values. Only issue I see with that is that you prefereably are around the base the entire time to make sure nobody interferes (by setting spawn, building things, submitting thins etc.)
My anecdotal experience is that tech speed increases with biomass activity when they set spawn on it. Unfortunately, that’s a luxury most builders don’t have on hand so that doesn’t really mean much. Might be useful for very large clans though.
a) thank you so much for doing this, it clears up a lot of mystical thinking and will hopefully stop people from filling bunkers full of rmats. b) If the system is as simple as your data suggests, why couldn't the devs just *TELL US WHAT THE RULES ARE*? One of my biggest frustrations is the way the devs want the players to "discover how it works for themselves" rather than providing useful documentation for critical game systems. This philosophy doesn't make the game more fun, it just makes dedicated players like Freerk sit around on dev branch for six hours watching paint dry.
@@agate4925 so their plan worked! The learning process generates content for creators with an analytical mind. It'd be funnier if even the dev team doesn't know how this works exactly 😂
There is something to say for not giving detailed information to prevent people from min maxing. That is an issue we used to have with tech parts back in the day, where at certain points in the day basically your tech parts were worth more. SO making sure people don't know the exact mechanics might (very important, might) mitigate this. From an enjoyer of human behaviour perspective it is actually fascinating to see what people will claim is "the method" even if they refuse to test to prove it or only have some anecdotes that point to it. The human mind is a wonderfull thing, and confirmation bias is a hell of a drug :D
@@FreerkHoltes That's kind of what I'm getting at. If you fail to give accurate information, people are still going to min/max it,, they're just going to do it based on myths and superstitions.
There could be garrison activity thresholds with high, medium, low with which influence speeds. These thresholds go up with more spawns and repairers etc and usually tech faster. Seems like only bunker bases with deployment point show garrison activity and garrison size. Townhalls and relics always show garrison activity and low activity is required for world deployment. I would ask for another test, get X number of bob cores to have deployment point. Then connect X number to tech rings with 40 mods to start teching Storm Cannon tech. Bunker 1: Control (No activities), Bunker 2: Set spawn. Bunker 3: Set Spawn and Hammer bob. Bunker 4: Try to get lots of people setting spawn and other speed up activities. You can then see if Threshold changes states.
Freerk & krowt9r? Two ppl I love seeing on the battlefield testing the voodoo magic of bunker tech is a video I didn't know I wanted to see but I really did. I'd always felt like the amount of material submission + frequency + # of unique ppl played a part but I'm not as dedicated to testing this (though I am kind of inspired now).
I asked Brett on FOD if he knew of anything that might be changing the behavior of bunker bases on Dev Branch specifically and he said that other than the acclerated tech speed, they should be acting the exact same as on live.
Nice and mythbusting video! I was told so many things about teching, that I was always curious if any of that actually worked. Of course, as you said, this was only dev branch and it's unknown if there are any other thresholds to speed up the process, but this already gave me a pretty good insight. #1 Submit something for better teching, 100 scrap seems the best, as you can get them pretty much everywhere and no one is pulling that out. #2 I alone could set up multiple bunker without the need to have people (me and other) spawn-assigned to them. I'm still curious if there are some undiscovered things about teching. I could think of: Timeout of faster tech due to decayed contribution (100 scrap only last for 1h and must be renewed to keep up the speed) or Any kind of Threshold to speed up with more players or more contribution. TL;DR; Thank you Freerk and krowt9r 😀
Something that's not apparent, that i'd hoped you'd cover was an old adage i heard probably over a year ago. Setting spawn and voting / not voting on the tech and how much voting increases the research speed. The old adage i heard said that voting matters on the research speed, but it was proportional to the % of players in the sub hex that voted vs. didn't. An example of which would be if there was 100 players in your sub hex, and 50 of them set spawn and voted at your core, You would get 50% of the standard research speed. OR if you were the only 1 in the sub hex, and set spawn/ voted, you'd receive 100% of the standard research speed. You could test this by having 2 people in the area next to your bunker, and just get 1 to vote and see how quickly you get small garry, Then have both set spawn and vote, and see if the timer went from ~31min to ~36min. having one or both people in the same area setting spawn.
As far as I know voting only effects the split in tech if multiple people have set their spawn at a particular base. So two spawns set, both choosing a different tech, both techs accumulate at the same rate. If both do not vote, they still achieve the same thing because both their spawn will be divided between the two tech paths. Basically in scenario 1 tech will receive 100% from one spawn and 0% from the other, in scenario 2 tech will receive 50% from each spawn. But this is soemthing I haven't tested clean and fully controlled so could be just confirmation bais when I think I see it happening
Only thing i would wonder is if the activity starts a "Speed up" Buff on the timer. would submitting 100 scrap then waiting 10-15min then submitting another 100 speed it up? Just because each of the things that increase the speed seem to cut it by 10min. so is there a set time that any activity speeds up the research for before needing more activity? if not then theoretically one person setting spawn at a BB would give the best time for teching up all the way to max level. if I'm understanding the findings correctly
Things like this are the reason builders like myself are becoming more adverse to play Foxhole. There's just TOO MUCH AMBIGUITY in how ANYTHING works in this game, and requires extensive testing in AN ACTUAL WAR, because there's no guarantee the Dev Branch is accurate at all. And I wish this were the only thing wrong with the building system in this game, but it isn't. Impotent garrison AI is also frustrating, as you see partisan videos where tanks pull up comically close to an AT garrison, even if it's got a light. They just rush by the outer defenses, and then the AT garrisons can do nothing because their firing arch starts at 180 degrees, and only shrinks when you put other garrisons next to it. It's why I've become a fan of walls, because at least the partisan is FORCED to expend resources to get through. As long as you build them 35 meters away from facility items you want to protect, the enemy can't hurt it directly short of using artillery and mortars...which the howitzer garrisons bunkers have wouldn't respond to anyways! It's so frustrating, I wonder why I should even bother...
I sincerly have no idea. I personally always thought that for town bases it was solely based on amount of spawns . But I have no clue if that is true or not.
You did not scale the people though, did you? Test 1 Spawn vs. 5 Spawns, 10 Spawns and 30 Spawns? Also Test a Spawn + AFK vs. a Spawn set that then dies a bunch simulating Infantry Gameplay?
He probably didn't have the people needed to test the former but I tested the later today and there was no difference between his tests where he sets spawn and afks and my test where I gassed myself and respawned for the same amount of time. They both took 31 minutes
Great research and video! Thanks for taking the time to do this!
😊
Just saying a guy in my friends regi says supplying a base with an amount of crates of shirts that is equal to the amount of vowels in the name of the nearest victory point speeds up the unlock by 50%
I knew it!
All my work for nothing. ;)
Thank you for taking the time!
Great work i wish the devs would just give us at least estimated time when you hover on tech with just "estimated time ~1 hour" no need to be exact but just something
The wiki has a compiled list of estimated unlock times:
foxhole.wiki.gg/wiki/Bunker_Base
@@FreerkHoltes Wiki is great but something in game with remaining time is what devs should add
@@TheSkeletonNinja I do agree that it would be nice but I do not expect anything like that. Indicative texts in Foxhole tend to be vague at best. Think things like strutural integrity and the old subregion modifiers are good examples of this.
Its garrison activity (the stat you see at world spawn); people pulling stuff out and submitting new stuff continuously increases activity and increase tech rate. Any other actions that increases activity increases tech rate.
What do you mean with pulling stuff out and submitting new stuff?
Materials? Weapons? Resources? Supplies?
@@FreerkHoltes Guns, ammo, soldier suppies, bandages, grenades, bmats, etc.
Just stuff, you have to get players to interact with equipment and "stuff" in the bunker base to increase garrison activity which makes the garrison tech faster.
@@LegendaryZA In that case my 32k salvage test should have been faster than for instacne the 100 salvage test
I don't understand entirely the part where you say "the value is between 1 and 100". Does adding 100 scrap reduces the timer from 41:40 to 31:20 ? Or did it only reduced by few seconds ?
@@aomtte1296 The value between 1 and 100 is me not being sure how much you have to submit before it "triggers" the speed up.
I hope that makes more sense?
Anyway, regardless what the actual value is, if this value is the case in Live as well I would always just submit 100 to be sure
Legend says Freerk is still building bunkers to this day.
I can neither confirm nor deny this
Thats insane lol I cant believe you had the patience for this but my absolute largest thanks for you. This makes me want to go test more of the wild ideas ive heard in the past since youve established a very solid benchmark.
Things people have claimed speeds it up:
- Idle hammering of the base itself (pretending like you're repairing it) but this probably doesn’t work because building itself doesnt seem to work.
- Dying a lot and or actually respawning
- Obviously setting spawn with more people
- Submitting "high value" items like tech materials or rmats (probably doesn’t work because 32k scrap didn’t make a difference with 100 scrap)
- Drip feeding crates of goodies (every 1 minute submitting a logi truck full of shirt/rifle/grenade/ammo crates)
- Praying to markfoot
The last one definitlly DOES help. When praying to markfoot make sure go around a components spawn node with a sledgehammer equipped in either crouch or prone position.
Further testing is required to find which stance (prone or crouch) is the most effective though.
Thank you for helping to spread testable results on this stuff!
Of all the systems, Bunker Tech repeatedly has the biggest amount of misinformation on how it functions despite being a mechanic that existed prior to when I joined back in W61. Seeing your research into how to speed things up reminds me of the efforts I went thru trying to ask every warden vet what the rules were for speeding up Tech, and getting no straight answers.
I also did tests in live and Devbranch (devs never sped up bunker tech back then) and essentially found the same things you found here:
- Bunker bases get a flat 30% tech boost by having an internal supply value of X (around 500 of any factory good, like BMats or 7.62)
- The act of submitting supplies to a BB has 0 impact on tech rate, but the player presence can indirectly. See next point.
- BBs check for ‘minimum activity’, which can be as simple as players driving nearby or someone Setting Spawn and staying in the Hex. If the BB doesn’t get minimum activity, its Tech Rate gets reduced to ~10%.
- Multiple Set Spawns on the same BB will specifically give a boost to Garrison tech, no matter what the participants vote for. This is because their Set Spawn activity is considered ‘extra’ beyond the default tech amount, and will boost the left-most tech
People have provided back then (and even in these comments) other anecdotes about their secret tips to speed tech. In all the wars I’ve spent building ‘economic’ BBs for backline AI, I have never once seen any deviation from the above results. I’ve tried passing this along to various warden channels, but it never sticks for long.
As an update, I tried submitting a truck full of items (5 crates of bmats and shirts, 2 crates of rifles and ammo, 1 crate of binoculars) every minute on the dot and still got a time of ~31 minutes. I also gassed myself in a bunker over and over again, respawning at the bunker each time, but no change on that either, still ~31 minutes.
Really appreciate the effort! One day, one day we'll get to the bottom of this :D
@@FreerkHoltes I almost wonder if the garrison upgrades behave differently. I've heard said before that at least provisional garrison always unlocks after a set time so that's making me wonder of the possibility of the AI ones not actually being influenced by player actions as a specific balancing measure.
Maybe it's worth retesting just a few things on Concrete or AT garrisons just to see if it's consistent
This is a great video.
But like Legend said key component of tech in general is the garrision activity.
I would wish for another Video in this same kind of style but everything around the garrision activity. For example what alot of people do is not just standing around and having their spawn to the bunker/TH but also "afk" Hammer on the healther bunker/Townhall to keep activity up.
Like i said i enjoyed the video very much. Some things i wondered got answered :)
Great Freerk video as usual, thanks for taking the time and sharing the test results.
Sixth test. Sixth test. Sixth test. Sixth test. Sixth test. Sixth test. Sixth test. Sixth test. Sixth test. Sixth test.
A slight lisp and an accent really made that a hard one :D
Very nice. Another environment to test in which should be identical to live server is resistance phase. It is not hard to find out of the way places there as well.
Some tests which reflect real gameplay but are missing are: 1) whether significantly higher supply value amounts (not just differing amounts of scrap) - for example, a truckload of 40mm ammunition crates - affect tech rates and 2) whether multiple submissions of the same total value, but over time, affect the rates (if there is a cooldown or maximum rate for submissions to count toward tech.)
O good point. Resistance phase might be a good way of testing the "Real" values.
Only issue I see with that is that you prefereably are around the base the entire time to make sure nobody interferes (by setting spawn, building things, submitting thins etc.)
This video suggests that Freerk have written a Master Thesis at some point in his life.
It might suggest that, but that would be wrong :D
My anecdotal experience is that tech speed increases with biomass activity when they set spawn on it. Unfortunately, that’s a luxury most builders don’t have on hand so that doesn’t really mean much. Might be useful for very large clans though.
Great video, thanks for the work!
You are awesome!
BLESS
a) thank you so much for doing this, it clears up a lot of mystical thinking and will hopefully stop people from filling bunkers full of rmats.
b) If the system is as simple as your data suggests, why couldn't the devs just *TELL US WHAT THE RULES ARE*? One of my biggest frustrations is the way the devs want the players to "discover how it works for themselves" rather than providing useful documentation for critical game systems. This philosophy doesn't make the game more fun, it just makes dedicated players like Freerk sit around on dev branch for six hours watching paint dry.
@@agate4925 so their plan worked! The learning process generates content for creators with an analytical mind. It'd be funnier if even the dev team doesn't know how this works exactly 😂
There is something to say for not giving detailed information to prevent people from min maxing. That is an issue we used to have with tech parts back in the day, where at certain points in the day basically your tech parts were worth more. SO making sure people don't know the exact mechanics might (very important, might) mitigate this.
From an enjoyer of human behaviour perspective it is actually fascinating to see what people will claim is "the method" even if they refuse to test to prove it or only have some anecdotes that point to it. The human mind is a wonderfull thing, and confirmation bias is a hell of a drug :D
@@FreerkHoltes That's kind of what I'm getting at. If you fail to give accurate information, people are still going to min/max it,, they're just going to do it based on myths and superstitions.
Freerk bro you are a legend 😊
There could be garrison activity thresholds with high, medium, low with which influence speeds.
These thresholds go up with more spawns and repairers etc and usually tech faster.
Seems like only bunker bases with deployment point show garrison activity and garrison size. Townhalls and relics always show garrison activity and low activity is required for world deployment.
I would ask for another test, get X number of bob cores to have deployment point. Then connect X number to tech rings with 40 mods to start teching Storm Cannon tech. Bunker 1: Control (No activities), Bunker 2: Set spawn. Bunker 3: Set Spawn and Hammer bob. Bunker 4: Try to get lots of people setting spawn and other speed up activities. You can then see if Threshold changes states.
Freerk & krowt9r? Two ppl I love seeing on the battlefield testing the voodoo magic of bunker tech is a video I didn't know I wanted to see but I really did. I'd always felt like the amount of material submission + frequency + # of unique ppl played a part but I'm not as dedicated to testing this (though I am kind of inspired now).
I asked Brett on FOD if he knew of anything that might be changing the behavior of bunker bases on Dev Branch specifically and he said that other than the acclerated tech speed, they should be acting the exact same as on live.
What a chad, thank you for making this Vid
Thank you!
Nice and mythbusting video!
I was told so many things about teching, that I was always curious if any of that actually worked. Of course, as you said, this was only dev branch and it's unknown if there are any other thresholds to speed up the process, but this already gave me a pretty good insight.
#1 Submit something for better teching, 100 scrap seems the best, as you can get them pretty much everywhere and no one is pulling that out.
#2 I alone could set up multiple bunker without the need to have people (me and other) spawn-assigned to them.
I'm still curious if there are some undiscovered things about teching. I could think of:
Timeout of faster tech due to decayed contribution (100 scrap only last for 1h and must be renewed to keep up the speed)
or Any kind of Threshold to speed up with more players or more contribution.
TL;DR;
Thank you Freerk and krowt9r 😀
Something that's not apparent, that i'd hoped you'd cover was an old adage i heard probably over a year ago. Setting spawn and voting / not voting on the tech and how much voting increases the research speed. The old adage i heard said that voting matters on the research speed, but it was proportional to the % of players in the sub hex that voted vs. didn't. An example of which would be if there was 100 players in your sub hex, and 50 of them set spawn and voted at your core, You would get 50% of the standard research speed. OR if you were the only 1 in the sub hex, and set spawn/ voted, you'd receive 100% of the standard research speed. You could test this by having 2 people in the area next to your bunker, and just get 1 to vote and see how quickly you get small garry, Then have both set spawn and vote, and see if the timer went from ~31min to ~36min. having one or both people in the same area setting spawn.
As far as I know voting only effects the split in tech if multiple people have set their spawn at a particular base.
So two spawns set, both choosing a different tech, both techs accumulate at the same rate. If both do not vote, they still achieve the same thing because both their spawn will be divided between the two tech paths.
Basically in scenario 1 tech will receive 100% from one spawn and 0% from the other, in scenario 2 tech will receive 50% from each spawn.
But this is soemthing I haven't tested clean and fully controlled so could be just confirmation bais when I think I see it happening
Thank you so much
Only thing i would wonder is if the activity starts a "Speed up" Buff on the timer. would submitting 100 scrap then waiting 10-15min then submitting another 100 speed it up? Just because each of the things that increase the speed seem to cut it by 10min. so is there a set time that any activity speeds up the research for before needing more activity? if not then theoretically one person setting spawn at a BB would give the best time for teching up all the way to max level. if I'm understanding the findings correctly
i wonder if further tiers need more submissions to have effect
Things like this are the reason builders like myself are becoming more adverse to play Foxhole. There's just TOO MUCH AMBIGUITY in how ANYTHING works in this game, and requires extensive testing in AN ACTUAL WAR, because there's no guarantee the Dev Branch is accurate at all. And I wish this were the only thing wrong with the building system in this game, but it isn't. Impotent garrison AI is also frustrating, as you see partisan videos where tanks pull up comically close to an AT garrison, even if it's got a light. They just rush by the outer defenses, and then the AT garrisons can do nothing because their firing arch starts at 180 degrees, and only shrinks when you put other garrisons next to it.
It's why I've become a fan of walls, because at least the partisan is FORCED to expend resources to get through. As long as you build them 35 meters away from facility items you want to protect, the enemy can't hurt it directly short of using artillery and mortars...which the howitzer garrisons bunkers have wouldn't respond to anyways! It's so frustrating, I wonder why I should even bother...
Can we apply this same logic to Town Centers? specifically researching industry
I sincerly have no idea. I personally always thought that for town bases it was solely based on amount of spawns . But I have no clue if that is true or not.
New video idea!
You did not scale the people though, did you?
Test 1 Spawn vs. 5 Spawns, 10 Spawns and 30 Spawns?
Also Test a Spawn + AFK vs. a Spawn set that then dies a bunch simulating Infantry Gameplay?
He probably didn't have the people needed to test the former but I tested the later today and there was no difference between his tests where he sets spawn and afks and my test where I gassed myself and respawned for the same amount of time. They both took 31 minutes
I did not no, as mentioned in the last cautionairy part foi the video; we did not have 20 people to test this.
Would be great to know though
what if you submit 32k 8mm? :)
The things you were not testing next
More bunker base testing (under a different title):
ruclips.net/video/K7XlpPoePk0/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/2Mgvc803TB0/видео.html
Test dying and respawning?
I did. Gassed myself and respawned dozens of times. Still ~31 minutes, so seemingly no effect.